All-Sabean Dumpster Team
by thefillmore on Nov 30, 2011 2:55 AM PST
Email
PrintTo commemorate Sabes' new extension, I'd like to provide you all with my version of Mr. Sabean's career lowlights with the Gyros. There really isn't one correct version of this lineup of duds, but there are a few than are pretty tough to argue. Since Sabean has done a pretty good job of stocking the organization with solid pitching talent, I'll just focus on his offensive shortcomings.
C - AJ Pierzynski: The infamous yard-sale where we gift-wrapped Francisco Liriano, Boof Bonser and some crummy reliever named Joe Nathan has become somewhat of a mythical mishap among the Giants faithful in recent years, but the actuality of the events that transpired from acquiring AJ are indeed even worse than the lost pieces indicate. Along with being a cancer in the clubhouse, and one of the most unlikable players from a fan standpoint in recent memory, he is also the only player during Sabean's reign who was capable of grounding in to more double plays than Aaron Rowand (27 total in 2004). And to make matters worse, it took him less than a year after jumping ship from San Fran to win a ring with the White Sox in 2005. Tough guy to root for, easy guy to root against.
1B - Ryan Klesko: Sadly a very typical Sabe signing; an established veteran who is 5-6 years past their prime, signing for 2-3 times what they were worth 3-4 years earlier. The grizzled veteran who brought some "pop" to a pathetic 2007 Giants lineup managed to bang 6 dingers in 411 at-bats.
2B - Mark DeRosa: Again, an established veteran who's numbers had been declining in the years prior to signing with the Giants, but received a contract that ended up paying him $285,714.27 for each of the 42 base hits he collected in San Francisco.
SS - Miguel Tejada: We signed a crusty veteran for big dollars just two years earlier, and the guy ended up helping the organization win its first championship in San Francisco. Since this formula worked once, it's obvious that it has a 100% likelihood of occurring again with an even more sub-par player in Miguel Tejada right? Well... the dude's HR total and batting average had been steadily declining since 2004 and he hadn't hit more than 20 big-flys since 2006. His post-steroid resume leads many of us wondering what kind of mediocre career numbers Miggy would have posted without the extra help. But most of all, any of us who watched Miggy play with the Padres during their outstandingly memorable collapse of 2010 saw that he had nothing left in the tank, but because he was half a decade past being relevant, it makes perfect sense why Sabean would sign the guy.
3B - Edgardo Alfonzo: In case you haven't noticed already, there is a formula that Mr. Sabean employs every time he decides on whether or not to sign a free agent. For Edgardo Alfonzo, he hit home runs it both of Sabe's free-agent criteria, he was a few years past the prime of his career and he had extremely limited upside. PERFECT! Alfonzo wasn't a completely horrible player, actually, he would have been an offensive star on the 2009 and 2011 teams, but for a squad that was trying to defend its National League Pennant and capitalize on the last few years of Bonds' brilliance, Edgardo was a weak option who provided no pop from the hot corner.
OF - Aaron Rowand: There are 60 million reasons why Aaron Rowand makes this list. Aside from no longer being a member of the organization and still having millions and millions of dollars owed to him, Rowand never earned the respect from Giants fans that he seemed to so easily get in Chicago and Philadelphia. Maybe we're just a little too picky here in the Bay Area, but I speak not only for myself when I say that it's hard to root for a guy who looks like he's dropping a deuce in the batter's box. But instead of using that obscure stance to throw off pitchers and become an offensive factor for the Giants, he instead dropped double-play dookies into the middle of Giants rallies for the better part of 4 seasons.
OF - Dave Roberts: $21 million for a base that he stole three years before the Giants even signed him. Thankfully for Dave, the Zito and Rowand signings overshadowed his horrific contract and lackluster play. The 2006/2007 offseason was a rough one for the Sabemiester.
OF - Jose Guillen: Still trying to figure out why Sabean and the Giants ever signed him in the first place. A crummy, over-the-hill 5th outfielder, wait, I know exactly why Sabean signed him...
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
11 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Having played many spirited games of Kick the Sabes in my time, I somehow feel that I should take this opportunity to provide the opposite lineup: Sabes very best dumpster dive acquisitions:
C. Benito Santiago, a late ST garbage dump pickup in 2001, Benito would play a major role on the should have been championship team of 2002.
1B. JT Snow. Huff is also an obvious one, but Snow was the dumpster dive pickup that kept giving. After four years with the Angels, only one of which provided league average offense, Anaheim was looking for a place to give him away. Sabes grabbed Snow for Allen Watson (who gave the Angels 1.5 below average years) and hearts began to flutter.
2B. Fontenot? Hmm…. a position that’s been manned by Kent, Durham, and Sanchez for 15 years isnt so conducive to this list.
SS. Uribe. A NRI to ST. I was a huge critic of bringing him north with the club in 2009. 40+ HRs later I feel a little silly about that.
3B. David Bell. When in doubt, go with the guy who started on a pennant winner. Picked up from Seattle for Desi Relaford.
LF. Pat the Bat. No doubt. Best half a million ever spent.
CF. Sabes has probably spent more money and effort acquiring CFs than any other position on the field, which would make this a tough category if it weren’t for Andres Torres. Runner up goes to Kenny Lofton, who was playing out the string of a one year, $1mil deal with the White Sox when we picked him up for the stretch. Best $200k and Meauxdiaz ever spent.
RF. Randy Winn was deeper in the dumpster, but I’m going to go with Ellis Burks. Daryl Hamilton was Sabes first big FA signing as a GM and as I recall, Hammy was a serious priority for Sabes that winter. He was coveted. So it must have been tough for Sabes to actually send a CF the other direction, for what may have been the only time in his life, but it was worth the personal sacrifice as this was possibly the second best trade Sabean’s ever made (behind the Jason Schmidt deal. Obviously the Kent deal was huge, but we did give up a lot in that deal: Matt was a 4.3 WAR player the year of the deal and still had one more 4.4 season after that with the Dbacks)
SP: Hard to argue with what Vogelsong did, but I have a soft spot in my heart for Gardy as well.
RP: All of them.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
by Roger on Nov 30, 2011 6:12 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Not a bad list Roger. The thing I noticed is that none of these guys (as I recall anyway) created much of a disruption to the payroll nor the clubhouse. If it worked fine, if it didn’t, cut bait.
The most egregiously offensive acquisitions that Sabean’s made have tended to feature disruptions to payroll, roster composition, player development and playing time; the most recent being the jettisoning of Sanchez because the Giants wont eat Zito’s contract.
And thats what you have to look at and why the Giants have closed their wallets for spending on Impact players. As a result, they much prefer to feed with the small to mid market teams in the NL and AL Central.
The other thing with lists like these, whether good or bad is they tend to analyze individuals as if they were parts in a vacuum. And despite WAR (folks can’t even agree between Fan Graphs and B-R) its extremely difficult to quantify with a great degree of certainty what specific players meld with other specific players to give the best possible team performances as expressed in wins.
You can make educated speculation, of course, but there is absolutely no way to predict the eventual individual outcomes that were the contributions of Burrrell, Huff, Torres, Ross and even the extent of Posey’s and Bumgarner’s early gate-busting successes.
Here’s what I mean. Since 2005, the Giants have been ridiculously atrocious in scoring runs. The one exception of course was 2010 when Sabean was desperate and picked up Burrell and Huff and Jose Guillen — Three DFA’s. plus Cody Ross and Uribe who were signed to be utility guys and only got chances to start because Rowand and Renteria got hurt.
Uribe, and Torres threw in career like seasons for part of the year, and even so, the Giants were still below average in scoring runs 17th out 30. Thats 5 guys that going into the season were not part of any cohesive plan except for Torres and Uribe in scrubini roles.
All those guys (except Guillen of course) were borne of desperation and dire straits to fill massive canyons in the roster brought upon by Sabean’s transactions of the past.
Winn put up some average to above average numbers on losing teams that never really contended, so he is a non factor.
I completely laud the Santiago signing, and of course as he and Snow, besides being such a big part of the 2002 team, were fun to watch. Even though Snow did not necessarily save “countless runs” with his glove and fell off the table after 2003, he was a good Giants between the lines and for the club image.
Not much to say about Fontenot.
Sabean’s strong points have of course been the middle relievers (not talking about Herges and Benitez and Christiansen and Franklin and the rest) for the past couple of years. Which again is the pitching. Which Sabean showed no propensity for until recently. Who knows.
15 years is a long time for one guy to be stagnating in one position, despite the 2010 WS. Trying to use a bunch of guys who played over their heads for parts of one year, and wishful thinking as the nucleus of your lineup going forward proved to be just as foolhardy as some feared. Even with the fortunate re-emergence of Pablo and the unprecedented and incredible miracle season of Ryan Vogelsong, everybody else reverted to pre-2010 form, including glass body Freddy Sanchez. And going into the season with no viable backup catcher was one of the stupider roster decisions. Even bottom feeders try to have viable options at backup simply because the position is so physically demanding and debilitating.
As you can tell. I am of the opinion that Sabean has long overstayed his stint as GM and should be moved into an emeritus position and utilize the outstanding talents of Tidrow, Evans and Barr instead of keeping them buried out of sight doing the heavy lifting.
by Roy Hobbs Jr on Nov 30, 2011 7:23 PM PST up reply actions
Eh
During Sabean’s 15 years, the Giants had a winning record for 11 years (including the last 3 in a row), had five playoff appearances, two World Series trips, 2010, several MVPs, 2 Cy Youngs, a Rookie of the Year, a no-hitter, the single season and all-time home run records…
It’s been a fantastic time to be a Giants fan, and I don’t think there’s any denying that Sabes had a lot to do with it. I’d hardly call that “stagnating.”
The recent years of terrible offensive production make it easy for people to overlook the successes, especially if they are too young to remember the ‘70s and what actual stagnation and failure are really like.
Still, the feeling that this historically good era of young Giants pitching is being wasted due to the team’s inability to score even a mediocre number of runs is hard to swallow.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 1, 2011 8:04 AM PST up reply actions
I remember those days very well. Brought about Horace’’s forgetting that he was a baseball man and not very good at Arizona desert land development. Thats when he set the model for Oakland, Kansas City and Pittsburgh amongst other.
Coincidentally another front office fubar paid for by fans and the players like the horrible impact player acquistions of Sabean.
I don’t enjoy watching half a team whether its football or baseball, and the Giants have been half a team for the better part of the last several years.
I just have different standards, and I have absolutely no allegiance to suits who happen to be the temporary stewards of a national institution.
by Roy Hobbs Jr on Dec 1, 2011 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting statement.
I’m curious, have you been satisfied with the Giants at any time? When were they a whole team? I really want to know.
I grew up with the 80-85 guys, that was some frustrating stuff. I have enough relatives to fill me in on other years.
I’ve enjoyed the last 3 years of ball more than any other period. Shocked and awed by 2010, but I loved both 2009 and 2011 bittersweet as they ended up.
I think for 2B you could almost argue Kent as, IIRC, he was a throw in a trade that center around acquiring Vizcaino.
Kickham where it hurts
by say hey nation on Dec 1, 2011 6:58 AM PST up reply actions
I thought about it, but I’ve seen a lot of comments from people over the years about who was the center of that deal and who the throw ins (some say Kent was the centerpiece, some Julian Tavarez, some Vizcaino). My own interpretation is that nobody was really the centerpiece; that it was the first indication of Sabean’s preference for having a lot of solid players rather than one great player. If one wanted to be mean, you could take the infamous Vlad quote and substitute in all the names of the particulars from the Matt Williams trade and it almost perfectly encapsulates Sabean’s defense of the Williams trade at the time he made it.
I’ve always said in terms of lessons learned, that the Williams-Kent trade was somewhat dangerous because its success (which was essentially exchanging a great player on the way down for a great player on the way up) was quite disjointed from its rationale (quantity over quality).
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
Pretty Good List
I wish you ragged on Tejada a bit more and threw in the fact they didn’t require a physical from Alfonso, but that’s just nitpicking…
Got 2 differences:
2B: Mark DeRosa was a pretty good ballplayer, and while they could have possibly done better due diligence, injuries do happen. I suggest you go with Neifi Perez, he did play almost 100 games at 2B, and he was the very definition of terrible. I look back and think 2/4.5MM what’s the big deal but at the time he was whipping boy #1.
RF: Jose Guillen played 42 games with the G’s. Sabean got him because it worked for Pat Burrell, maybe it would work again. I think we have to stop playing “what if”. What if future Travis Ishikawa is mad over his dfa, comes back and doesn’t draw the walk in Game 3 of the Atlanta series?
Instead, I offer up another whipping boy, Michael Frickin’ Tucker. You look back at his stats, you might think what’s the big deal, he put up average numbers? Well, I have no idea how he got to a 97 OPS+, he was the definition of mediocre out there. Sabean always did a good job filling RF: Hill, Burks, Sanders, Cruz Jr. So while its not Tucker’s fault he got signed for a punt the draft pick strategy, I do blame him for weak hitting where we had always got some good production, and with just a little less mediocre maybe we don’t have to get broke down by Finley and his grand slam in 04.
Speaking of Finley, there’s an argument right there, Sabean’s biggest white whale, finally acquired (for Alfonso!) when the carcass was picked completely clean. Another CF candidate is Shinjo. but Rowand and Roberts have both those cats beat for longevity.
Honorable Mentions
I’d be lying if I said there were some pretty worthy players of making this list that certainly deserve mentioning:
Shea Hillenbrand: What a tease, the guy was brought in to save a season that was unsavable. The giants were mathmatically still in it, but the organization felt it needed to make a move to tell the fans they hadn’t totally mailed it in. I still remember hearing the news when they acquired him, my dad and I had just left the ballpark and we were driving over the Bay Bridge, and I looked to my pop and said, “That guy sucks! The managed to find the one guy that was a downgrade from Lance Niekro.”
Orlando Cabrera: The horrible memories are too fresh in my brain to want to recall any of them. Let’s just say without all of Cabrera’s defensive mishaps, the Giants may have had just enough to edge out the eventual World Series champs for the NL Wild Card.
Jose Castillo: You knew you were watching a AAA player at best when he stepped into the box. Is it sad he had comprable number to most of the 2011 Giants?
Steve Finely: After what the guy did to us in 2004, I didn’t even want him on my team. But he actually continued to do the one thing he did best before joining the Giants, give San Francisco fans fits. I hate that guy.
Also gotta mention Armando Rios, Charlie Hayes, Calvin Murray, and Jose Cruz Jr (only because of the dropped fly ball which I shall never mention on this site ever again). I’ll save my pitching picks for the the All-Sabean Dumpster Rotation.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on McCovey Chronicles
Related FanShots on McCovey Chronicles
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
