Giants add Kiesh, Culby, Otero, Correa, Graham and....Villalona???
by BruteSentiment on Nov 18, 2011 9:36 PM PST
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PrintSo far, no link, just posts from Baggs on Twitter.
In preparation for the Rule 5 draft in a couple of weeks, the Giants protected six players on the 40-man roster while dropping two. They are:
OF Tyler Graham
IF Charlie Culberson
RP Charlie Culberson Dan Otero (Too tired to proofread, apparently)
RP Hector Correa
IF Angel Villalona (No kidding)
The team released RP Darren Ford and RP Waldis Joaquin.
Baggs suggests that the Villalona move is probably a procedural thing. He also confirms that Villalona still needs to get a U.S. Work Visa before he can start his career again.
Wow...I did not see that coming.
This is Joaquin's second release from the Giants' 40-man roster. He was claimed off of waivers by the ChiSox last time around, but refused and returned to the Giants as a minor league free agent before the start of the 2011 season. Meanwhile, Ford gets dropped for a player that might be just as fast, and has a bit more of a hitting upside. Just a little bit...but then, Ford had just about none upside, so that's a low bar.
Correa's name might surprise a few, but he'll surprise a few more. The kid is pretty talented.
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One more thing...
The Giants have 37 men on the 40-man roster after these moves.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
Baggarly's added a bit more on Villalona:
extrabaggs: Major League Baseball has taken Angel Villalona off the restricted list, I’m told. He is applying for his U.S. work visa now.
Giants VP Bobby Evans expects no hangups w/ Villalona’s visa. He’s at club’s Dominican camp getting back in shape. The swing is still there.
Evans: “There’s still a lot we have to learn about him on and off the field. He knows he has a long process … and he has a lot to prove.”
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
another more thing
the other pitcher is Dan Otero
this list was mostly predicted a day or 2 ago. I like Graham being included. Possible #4 or 5 OF
Marvin Barrios, come on I'll show you your bedroom. Don't stay on the phone too long to Panama, please.
D'oh...how'd I not put his name in there.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
by BruteSentiment on Nov 18, 2011 11:58 PM PST up reply actions
I wonder if Villalona has already been taken off MLB’s Restricted List or if they plan to take him off. If he was still on the Restricted List for the Rule V Draft, I doubt he could have even been selected by another team. Interesting news nonetheless. If nothing else, it shows the Giants still have a lot of faith in the kid’s abilities, even after many years of not playing professional ball.
"If you wanna rock 'n' roll, I got the guitar."
Here is the tweet, not that it confirms anything
https://twitter.com/#!/extrabaggs/status/137764698669068288
Weird. What are the ethical considerations in deciding whether to root for Villalona? Obviously, we can’t be certain he shot and killed the guy, but, damn, it sounds pretty fishy.
I’ll admit that I never thought we’d hear from him again.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Check out Catch-28.com, a blog about Buster Posey and the San Francisco Giants.
Since the likelihood of extortion is at least as great as the likelihood that he killed someone (under circumstances that we can’t reconstruct), and since his American hosts where he has played minor league ball have spoken emphatically about what seemed to them to be his fine character, the ethical behavior on our part is to treat him like any other young ballplayer. Not to do so, and let his career be further crippled by an unsubstantiated accusation, is unethical.
by campanari on Nov 18, 2011 11:08 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I’d add that I am proud of my team for treating Villalona as they now have, rather than shun him for fear of bad PR, problems because of the inevitable trash talk from fans and perhaps players of opposing teams, or any other sort of queasiness about a guy who hasn’t been convicted of anything or had cogent evidence presented against him.
Very well stated Campanari. I’d just add that Juan Uribe had a shooting allegation that he was eventually cleared of starting in Oct 2006. Circumstances are obviously different, but it is not unheard of to have trouble in a deeply impoverished country. Giants fans are obviously aware of Villalona, I don’t know how many knew about Uribe’s situation.
Can you really be proud of them though? You’re assuming their motives are pure, when there are at least two more equally likely options. Option one is they took him back because he was suing them, and they wanted that to go away. If they really believed innocent before proven guilty, why did they stop paying him, necessitating this lawsuit? Option two is the obvious fact that he might help the San Francisco Giants win baseball games. That’s why they stood behind Barry Bonds, too.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
If they wanted him to go away once the lawsuit had gone away, they would not, presumably, have protected him from the Rule V draft. Once he wasn’t working for them and might never be, they stopped paying him. There is the obvious fact that he might help the Giants win games, and in fact if they didn’t believe this, they would have no business taking him back. That is the pure motive. My point was that they are treating him as they would treat any other player, despite possible bad PR and the other possible difficulties I listed. As far as Bonds goes, they have been standing behind him by having him a prominent member of the organization long after he stopped helping them win ballgames.
I don’t think they treat Bonds as a prominent member of the organization at all. He’s treated well the two or three times he comes to the ballpark, but I don’t see any job with the organization, any Barry Bonds Day, and they took down almost all the Bonds stuff they had around the stadium until fans complained about it. They only stand behind him enough so most fans and media won’t notice.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
Absolutely
Villalona got cleared. Therefore there are no problems rooting for him. We rooted for Darren Ford and he was actually a bigger confirmed criminal.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I didn’t root for Darren Ford.
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU (AGAIN) [now with theme song]
I tweet (and occasionally blarg) | Your San Francisco Giants: "Together We're Broken!"
Theft is “bigger” than manslaughter or murder?
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Nov 20, 2011 7:53 PM PST up reply actions
Confirmed is a key word
Villalona wasn’t convicted (the charges were dropped, plus the whole extortion thing makes it unlikely in the first place), while Ford cut a deal to have the charges dropped – IMO even if that technically means he wasn’t convicted either, he was probably guilty otherwise I doubt he would have made a deal.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Oh I know.
I was being a grammar cop in regards to the useless adjective.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Nov 21, 2011 6:15 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see a single ethical consideration in bringing him back...
It’s a non-issue considering he was cleared.
More of an issue is the idea that he might’ve been taken in the Rule 5 draft. Seriously. Playing shape aside, but to my knowledge Rule 5 rules do not make exceptions for not having to keep a player on the major league roster just because he doesn’t have a visa.
And then, in terms of playing shape, he hasn’t played a competitive game outside of the Domincian in years. That is not major league ready.
But that’s just my opinion.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
by BruteSentiment on Nov 19, 2011 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
He missed two years
I recall many pitchers that have missed a year. DeRosa missed the last two years or most of them and he will sign with someone. I have no problems at all rooting for Villalona.
Go Giants
I'm not talking about whether or not you should root for him...
I’m talking about whether or not he needed to be put on the 40-man roster to be protected.
Also, DeRosa and the pitchers I assume you’re talking about? Those are guys who have played in the majors. What I’m talking about is a kid who hasn’t played above Single-A and hasn’t played in a competitive game in two years, and whether or not he’ll get drafted by a team who will have to put him in the majors all season long.
I can’t see anyone doing that. And now, Villalona must be in the majors by 2015, or he faces waivers.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
by BruteSentiment on Nov 19, 2011 7:01 AM PST up reply actions
The Giants paid a lot of money to sign him, and they did it at a time where they weren’t spending a lot of money on young players. They must have been really high on him, and I’m sure the last thing they want after all they have invested in him is to lose him and have him finally realize his massive potential with someone else.
Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.
Yeah, but was he really “cleared?” I thought the charges were dropped amid reports that he paid a big settlement to the victim’s family and witnesses had changed their stories.
That’s to say I think he’s definitely guilty, just that it’s suspicious.
by Dan from NM on Nov 19, 2011 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
I assume there’s a dropped “not” in the first part of the last sentence. Suspicious, yes, but of whom? This is the exact scenario for extortion: he pays, they fulfill their part of the bargain.
Yep, I dropped a word there.
I guess I’m still still just trying to make sense of the whole thing. I figured he was gone from baseball forever.
by Dan from NM on Nov 19, 2011 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
3rd World Justice
Having spent some time in third World countries I have seen that neither the accused or innocent are treated the same as in the US. Being charged with a crime in a number of cases just means that you have the ability to grease a few or many palms. The rich might consider it part of doing business.
Go Giants
Only reason I can think of for the Villalona move
Is that it’ll show the government he deserves a visa. Don’t know why that wasn’t clear already, or whether they could have done something other than use a 40-man spot for that, but just maybe it’s one more thing to expedite the visa process.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Nope
The reason that they put him on the 40-man is because he would have been eligible for the Rule 5 Draft if they didn’t. I wondered about him in my old fanpost, noting that his 5 years of protected status was up, but I was uncertain what the rules were in terms of him being on the Restricted List. I guess this means that players on the list are still accruing service time for the purpose of the Rule 5.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Yeah...
But there’s no way he would have been taken and kept. I was looking for a legitimate reason to put him on the 40-man.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Buster Olney had a tweet yesterday that said something along the lines of: 40 man moves are more about how much orgs like the players than they are about legitimate fear of losin them in Rule 5. So that might explain it.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
On the protected players
Somewhat surprised by Kieschnick, but I guess it sort of makes sense. Same goes for Graham. Otero, Culberson, and Correa were clear candidates to get taken.
Also Brute, you wrote “The team released RP Darren Ford” – pretty sure that should be “PR Darren Ford” because that’s about as accurate a title as you can give him.
Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I did actually mean PR.
Damn, why am I up so late?
At least I got the Graham thing right earlier this week.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Read My Blarrrgh...er, um....Comic. That doesn't really come across so well when said sarcastically. The Lunatic Fringe•
by BruteSentiment on Nov 19, 2011 1:27 AM PST up reply actions
Weird I thought the whole reason for placing him on the Restricted List in the first place was so that his service time lock froze while the legal matters worked themselves out (plus not having to pay him, but that couldn’t have been much).
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!
+1
I had the same question. I guess this means that Restricted players still accrue service time for the purpose of the Rule 5. Maybe Baggs can clear this up for us.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
He murders the ball.
COMIN' ATCHA, FROM ANCHORAGE, ALASKA!
Fathaigh go mbuaimid!
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I DON'T BELIEVE YOU (AGAIN) [now with theme song]
I tweet (and occasionally blarg) | Your San Francisco Giants: "Together We're Broken!"
You guys ( and gal ) are just terrible.
I'm a Giants Fan, but I'll always be rooting for Matt Downs
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