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BJ Upton - Trade Idea

BJ Upton made 4.83M last year and should be headed for a fairly significant raise after his best year since his rookie year. The Rays have an in-house cheap replacement in Desmond Jennings to take over and were rumored to have been shopping Upton at the deadline last year. 

The Giants could trade Hector Sanchez and Nate Schierholtz for Upton. Schierholtz is the type of cheap, versatile, solid defender the Rays covet. With Jennings in CF, Schierholtz can be a part of a platoon in their LF and RF spots. The Rays only organizational weakness is Catcher, and Hector Sanchez would become their best prospect at the position and one close to taking over in the next two years. The Nationals are also known to like Upton, and they too have a good extra catching prospect in Derek Norris (Wilson Ramos has been rescued). They also have a much deeper farm system than the Giants if it got to a bidding war.

This move pushes Melky Cabrera to RF, and upgrades two spots. It gives the Giants a dynamic RF/CF defensive combo, along with two very talented, motivated 27 year old outfielders heading into free agency. Not for nothing, 27 is generally considered a baseball players peak year. Upton in particular is a dynamic talent who has always seemed on the verge of more. Between his contract year/change of scenery/playing in the same division as his younger brother, there is the potential for an All-Star season from the young CF. Slating in Belt at LF, the Giants could also retain Torres as a do-all 4th OF. Financially this move would only be the difference in salary between Schierholtz and Upton, maybe $4-7M? Cost-wise we lose the value of versatility of Schierholtz and an excellent young Catcher prospect, but that is at least trading from our one organizational strength. 

Potential downside? In basketball it's often not good to have too many people on a contract year, because the players gun for their own stats. This doesn't exactly translate perfectly to baseball, but neither Melky or BJ necessarily count "great team player" as one of their strengths. So there's potential that two new firebrands coming to to a recent championship team could upset the clubhouse if the team goals are not first on their mind.

Projected Lineup:

Upton CF

Sanchez 2B

Pablo 3B

Buster C

Huff 1B

Melky RF

Belt LF

Crawford/Free Agent SS

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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I think the Rays would want more than a player with half a season of success, and an unproven prospect for a player of Upton’s stature (4+ years of consistency).

Still, I fail to see why Torres isn’t a viable alternative. If the problem is his low batting average, Upton hits more or less in the same range. Upton’s younger legs do make him a more successful base-stealer, but Torres plays a phenomenal CF.

Let’s keep in mind that we only need at most two years of serviceable play from our centerfielder. Gary Brown should be ready by then. Yet another logical reason to keep Andres patrolling AT&T.

Unfortunately, “logical” and “Giants’ management” haven’t really gone together in the past few years.

by Lakers1230 on Nov 12, 2011 12:55 PM PST reply actions  

Rays might want more

But they might come to the conclusion that they “have” to trade BJ Upton due to budgetary concerns. Even if it just means reinvesting those funds elsewhere.

Trade value is also lower since it is not expected free agents will get the same amount of compensatory picks in the next deal. So they can’t just hold on and expect two picks.

As for Torres vs Upton. First of, I don’t think the Giants are really considering Torres for much of a role, and secondly Upton is a pretty substantial upgrade. He’s a free agent after the year so he doesn’t block Brown, and if we did want to resign him, he could eventually move to RF when Brown came up. Or Brown becomes our best trade chip.

by hammystyle on Nov 12, 2011 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Not sure the Giants would want to include Hector Sanchez in any trades. While Posey is supposed to be returning full time at catcher, I’m thinking they’ll want a backup plan in case it doesn’t work out quite like that.

Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.

by rxmeister on Nov 12, 2011 3:02 PM PST reply actions  

That's not a particularly great backup plan

So if they traded him, they could just get another one. I doubt Sanchez is ready to take over as a starting C.

by hammystyle on Nov 12, 2011 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m not sure that Hector Sanchez is that backup plan. With Susac and LTPJoseph coming up, there’s no reason why they can’t trade Sanchez to help the team. Whether this trade is (a) actually viable, (b) actually helps the Giants, or © actually helps the Rays is up for debate…

My adopted Giant, the young Reinier Roibal

by garbanzo24 on Nov 12, 2011 5:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Susac and Joseph are a lot further away than Sanchez. Sanchez moved up quickly last year, and even though it’s only about 65 at bats, is hitting .408 in Venezula this off season. He could be ready by mid season.

Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.

by rxmeister on Nov 13, 2011 4:20 AM PST up reply actions  

I don’t know about that. Until last June, Joseph and Sanchez were advancing together and nothing Sanchez did upon being hastily elevated suggested to me that he was read (offensively at least) for those promotions.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!
MY BOY NEEDS TO THROW HARDER!

by Roger on Nov 13, 2011 7:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Just the same, the Giants are privileged to have a great young catcher in Posey and incredibly, THREE viable future catching prospects. I can understand the logic in trading one of them, but for a one year rental whose career has been more disappointing than anything else? Especially when there’s a better player out there (Beltran) who they can sign without giving up anything but cash? Makes no sense to me.

Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.

by rxmeister on Nov 13, 2011 7:52 AM PST up reply actions  

That's because it's not your cash

Either the Giants owners or Sabes do no seem to be inclined to give Beltran $30-45M over the next few years. So this is just a more money friendly alternative.

by hammystyle on Nov 13, 2011 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

If they don’t have the money, I’d prefer they make no trade rather than a potentially bad one. I’d want my rental to be a sure thing, not an enigma. And we both know they have the money for Beltran. If they don’t want to spend it that’s one thing, but they have it.

Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.

by rxmeister on Nov 13, 2011 12:57 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I think they need more boot but

If the Rays are dumb enough to go for it yes.

Go Giants

by Gianni on Nov 12, 2011 5:25 PM PST reply actions  

Belt -> BJ -> Melky

Something about that combination sounds really nice!!!

Chris Ray is not Bengie Molina.

by The Thrill on Nov 12, 2011 10:20 PM PST reply actions  

Not worth it for one year of Upton, especially when Upton has had some bad years. His potential thrills everyone, but he always disappoints. Keep Nate, keep Hector, sign the always good Carlos Beltran.

Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.

by rxmeister on Nov 13, 2011 4:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Hard to gauge what it would take to get the Rays to let him go. Sanchez and Schierholtz hurt a little for sure. What would your max be for Carlos Beltran? Third year?

Interesting idea. I like BJ Upton or Carlos Quentin for trade targets. But I agree its easier just to pay some money for Beltran if this awesome rainy day fund can get cracked.

by shankbone on Nov 13, 2011 6:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I’d give him three and even an attainable fourth year if he averages a certain amount of games played over the first three. Whatever it takes. If he gives them three good years and breaks down in 2015, they can whine about it then.

Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.

by rxmeister on Nov 14, 2011 9:28 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

What if he doesn't give you any good years?

He’s 35. I’m playing devils advocate more than anything, but you’re dismissive of the Upton trade idea as though there is no risk with Beltran. Beltran will be a much larger financial commitment and he is a much higher risk of injury over the next three years. Additionally since he’s 35 and Upton is 27, it will not be long before Upton is the better overall player. That could be as soon as next year.

by hammystyle on Nov 14, 2011 2:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Fwiw

I agree, in a vacuum the Beltran signing is preferable. However, that for sure would end the budget. Whereas Upton could still leave room for something like a Barmes/Oswalt pairing.

by hammystyle on Nov 14, 2011 2:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Fwiw

I agree, in a vacuum the Beltran signing is preferable. However, that for sure would end the budget. Whereas Upton could still leave room for something like a Barmes/Oswalt pairing.

by hammystyle on Nov 14, 2011 2:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Been thinking about this as well. Beltran has played 281 games in 3 seasons. Upton has played 451. Going to a 4th year to win Beltran could make it especially painful. To be fair, the five years before that Beltran played a ton of games every year, but the Giants already have a lot of injury concerns so in a way getting younger wherever possible might be the best move.

by shankbone on Nov 14, 2011 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s still just one year of Upton, so the fact that he’s younger is irrelevant. Plus, it’s costing you two players to get him, where Beltran costs you nothing but the cash. It’s not just Upton vs. Beltran, it’s Upton vs. Beltran, Nate, and Hector Sanchez. I prefer the latter.

Buster Posey: still better than Eli and Stewart, even with a broken ankle.

by rxmeister on Nov 15, 2011 6:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Its one year of Upton versus 3-4 years of Beltran (and Nate and Hector in this scenario, 2 guys I like). If Beltran gives us 130 games a year its a win. For what its worth, Bill James projections (on Fangraphs now) have Beltran and Belt very eerily similar. Except Belt is projected at 151 games (obviously hasn’t factored in Bochy) and Beltran around 120. James projections are usually optimistic. Still, I would much rather overpay for less years on Don Carlos if possible, and its worth looking at an Upton scenario if Beltran goes hunting years/money and the DH.

by shankbone on Nov 15, 2011 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, I like the idea of targeting B.J. Upton. I know there’s some sentiment that he’s similar to (and not that much better than) Andres Torres and Coco Crisp.

But Upton is healthier than those two, and he has more breakout potential, given his age and scouting/draft pedigree.

by Dan from NM on Nov 13, 2011 12:30 PM PST reply actions  

On the fence on this one

There are some things to like about Upton – career low of 2.4 WAR in a full season, no injury issues, excellent walk rate, good power, solid defense and baserunning – but a couple big problems (huge 25% K rate, nothing more than slightly above-average overall or in any one category). I honestly can’t figure out how he produced 4 WAR with a .337 wOBA – most of the players around him are at >.350 or star defenders and/or baserunners at premium positions who hit about as well.

He’s also a rental, which means if Gary Brown isn’t ready in 2013 we have to do this dance all over again, but without a borderline starting OF and a solid catching prospect. Nor does he fit with Melky Cabrera, whose offense is suspect even in CF and certainly can’t be counted on as a corner outfielder. Draft picks are questionable at best with Upton on the bottom edge of Type B status and compensation being worked on for the next CBA anyway. The market is also an issue – are we really confident no one can or will beat Schierholtz and Sanchez? For a player with Upton’s upside (heh) it seems likely someone will do something dumb like a Garza-type trade that nets the Rays a couple solid prospects and a couple complementary pieces. Hell, I could see him packaged with James Shields (Reds? For Alonso and Yasmani Grandal and a lower-level SP?) for a big return.

Beltran, of course, comes with his own set of problems – age and injuries being chief among them, and those are significant enough that any four year deal is doomed from the start. Even three years is questionable (2+option is probably where I’d land), and he’s going to want more than the $40M I’d be willing to give him at the most.

So I choose none of the above – let Cabrera hang himself in CF for a month, then put Torres back there, then back to Cabrera if he doesn’t work, etc. We don’t have the money for a big sign or the prospects for a big trade, nor is there really a clear target out there (are we sure the Rays are trading Upton? They’ll obviously listen, but with contention planned for 2012 can’t be set on dealing him), so I’d rather grab a couple risky, cheap players and hope one of them works. A Belt/Cabrera(Torres)/Schierholtz outfield is preferable over the commitment either Beltran or Upton requires.

Seth Rosin can hit the side of a barn with a baseball. From space.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Nov 15, 2011 9:16 PM PST reply actions  

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