Dodgers letting Padres win?
by dabay on Sep 8, 2010 12:50 AM PDT
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I know this is probably not true, but does anybody think that the Dodgers would try to lose intentionally to the Padres to ruin the Giants playoff hopes? At this point the Dodgers are basically out of the playoff picture, and if they aren't going to make the playoffs, I am sure they don't want their rivals to make it either. The Division is in our grasps and all of sudden the Padres have got out of their funk and have taken the first two games in the series with the Dodgers. It is just a thought. It has been a wild ride so far and I am looking forward to seeing how the season unfolds. The next series coming up against the Padres is huge. That four game series could end up being the deciding factor for the division. I am looking forward to finally seeing some meaningful baseball in September and just hope the Giants can deliver a long awaited playoff appearance in SF. This Dodger, Padre series has been a rare occasion for me as a Giants fan. It has been the only time I have rooted for the Dodgers all year. In a way it kinda hurts but sometimes you even need some help from your enemies. So lets go Dodgers and Giants!
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Seriously, I think the Dodgers thought they had one last shot at this thing, and that would be to sweep the Giants and Padres, and that game Saturday that they blew just sucked the life out of them. Dead men walking.
Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees.
by rxmeister on Sep 8, 2010 4:47 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
exactly.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 8, 2010 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Absolutely not. You don’t make it to MLB baseball by being the kind of person that intentionally loses. These guys are competitors, it’s in their own personal best interest to do as well as possible all the time…..there’s no chance they’re intentionally losing.
Ummm....
You don’t make it to MLB baseball by being the kind of person that intentionally loses.
What about the Black Sox, Pete Rose and, even though he’s no longer on the team, Manny Ramirez? This is the same team that employs one Matt Kemp correct. While I do agree with you for the most part, I wouldn’t put it past a team made up of a collection of Individuals like the Fodgers to pull something like this, although I believe that the Giants series really deflated them and they’re losing because they realize their season is over and they’re half-assing it.
"There's not many things to do in a trailer park." - A. Huff
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Sep 8, 2010 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Outliers, and not necessarily all that comparable. I think Pete Rose actually fits in with my story – dude might have bet on baseball, but you know he was betting on his team to win every time. I have no doubt Pete Rose tried as hard as he could to win every single baseball related thing he did. I am legitimately curious as to whether the Black Sox is even a viable thing anymore, with the amount of money guys make now, I don’t see a reason for anyone to throw a series like that, unless they were forced to for fear of their safety or something, you know? Dunno if we can ever really test that, though. As for Manny, well, he’s just a clown, but one that knew what leverage he had and used it well for his own personal benefit…..
by Missing Barry on Sep 8, 2010 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Ray Fosse agrees
I have no doubt Pete Rose tried as hard as he could to win every single baseball related thing he did.
Adopted Son: !Matt Downs I'll miss you my son.
The Black Sox scandal was almost 100 years ago, back when there was barely any money in baseball. I don’t think that’s applicable to the game today.
Pete Rose, like MB said, bet on his own team.
Manny Ramirez may have slacked off, because he’s got a screw loose, but he still performed at a higher level (offensively) than most players in the game today.
But I could definitely see the wind being taken out of the Dodger sails to the point that they’re hitting another losing skid.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
These guys are competitors, it’s in their own personal best interest to do as well as possible all the time
After the Giants and Padres series, they aren’t anymore this season.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 8, 2010 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think the players themselves would half-ass it based off of the standings. But I could see upper management or even managers themselves not wanting to field the most competitive lineup. This was probably true 30+ years ago. Not sure if it would happen today.
The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.
Yeah, I agree with this. While I think the players are going to try to perform, to some degree, a team might go with young guys over old guys who might be better right now. The Mets have seemingly been doing this the last couple weeks.
by Missing Barry on Sep 8, 2010 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions
You can count on the players giving their best. . .
. . . but it looks like Joe Torre is trying to stick it to the Giants. In their San Diego finale, he starts a 4A guy, Russ Mitchell over Loney at 1B and Reed Johnson over Ethier in RF. Thursday’s LA Times reports that he is adding a starter to his rotation. The reshuffled rotation sets up the Giants to face the Dodgers best three starters – Kershaw, Lilly and Billingsley. Then Colorado would face Kuroda and batting practice pitchers John Ely and Vicente Padilla. Fuck Joe Torre and fuck the Lost Angeles Dodgers.
by betterthanbochy on Sep 9, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I doubt it, the Dodgers just aren’t very good.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
by jponry on Sep 8, 2010 6:29 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Damn, that's fun to say isn't it?
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Dodgers just aren’t very good.
Yes, yes it is.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 8, 2010 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Dodgers just aren't very good
/shivers
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
The Dodgers just aren't very good.
Wow, that is really nice. Especially after saying that the Dodgers suck for years, when they really didn’t.
"Pablo Sandoval, coming around third like a runaway beer truck." - Kruk
when they really didn’t.
Yeah, they did.
The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.
The Dodgers always suck, even when they’re good.
The Dodgers aren’t very good. :)
by Missing Barry on Sep 8, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with jponry.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Sep 8, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
The Dodgers roster is made up of individual players with their own separate contracts. If they don’t at least try individually to play near to the best of their abilities than their market values will go down. No ownership or team wants to pay for a player who just gives up. The players themselves want their statistics to be as good as possible.
What happens to a teams chance of winning when players are selfish and only care about individual performance is anyones guess.
Also, no team wants to be embarrased by losing a lot to another team.
Only somewhat true
For guys that are in the final year of their contract, definitely true, but for guys that have 2-3 years left on their contracts it’s not really that big a deal from a personal perspective. Plus guys like Matt Kemp half-ass it in May, why not September when they’re tired?
"There's not many things to do in a trailer park." - A. Huff
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Sep 8, 2010 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions
You would think so, but the season is a grind, and it’s pretty easy to give up mentally in September, plus three games is not going to make or break a season, especially if they can squeeze in a couple of two-out nobody on knocks late in games. I’m not saying it’s probable, just possible.
"There's not many things to do in a trailer park." - A. Huff
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Sep 8, 2010 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Plus guys like Matt Kemp half-ass it in May, why not September when they’re tired?
I wouldn’t really consider that intentionally losing as much as just Matt Kemp being Matt Kemp, personally. It’s not like he would all of a sudden start to dog it or anything, it’s something he was doing consistently all year!
by Missing Barry on Sep 8, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Totally agree, just that I think it makes it feasible, but still not likely.
"There's not many things to do in a trailer park." - A. Huff
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Sep 8, 2010 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I guess I can see a number of factors that might make the Dodgers more likely to lose – from the players being out of the race and kind of mentally checking out to the coaches playing younger guys instead of veterans, etc. I just wouldn’t say any of it is intentionally losing to screw the Giants the way the fanpost discusses, you know?
by Missing Barry on Sep 8, 2010 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
If they really wanted to throw games
They’d be doing things like benching Kemp for “attitude” problems, giving Ethier more rest, Blake a day off, etc.
They’re putting their best players on the field, and it’s highly doubtful that any of those players are willing to throw a game.
No. Not one player on either team real gives a shit about the rivalry.
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Um
I really think they do. Russell Martin and Casey Blake and Brian Wilson (and I think Sandoval and maybe even Renteria) sure as hell do. Do you think Blake would have insulted Wilson if he played for the Astros? Do you think Martin would have gone after Sandoval last year if Martin played for the Phillies? Hell no. They’re not as intense as some of the fans, but I think even Huff has said that he’s getting into the whole rivalry thing; for that matter, I think perhaps the intensity of the fans is a serious impetus for the players. When you get capacity crowds at every game, and the entire stadium is more amped and willing to go crazy over the smallest thing, I think that affects the guys on the field.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to do that (TM)
i believe they take the rivalry serious to a point. Every game is important, but due to the history involved in these two teams, the fans especially make a huge impact. I am sure players want to be respected by their fans and showing they care is very important to gain our respect. The rivalry if anything is a motivational factor. Every player reacts to situations differently and present themselves in different ways. All these players want to win no matter what the situation is. I appreciate everyones thoughts on my post. It was not meant to be serious. The feedback I gained definitely helped my views on these athletes and how they compete.
Burrell cares
/Bay Area ties!!!
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
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I think there's some truth to this
It’s just not intentional. Think about it. How hard are you really going to try when you just got knocked out of competition (largely by a guy you don’t like!), especially when you winning helps the guy that beat you up?
I’m sure Loney’s normal attitude on a night like last would have been “yeah, we’re gonna tie it up right here, he’s probably gonna throw the curve…”
Instead it was “ugh, who gives a shit, let’s get this over with so I can go watch Futurama.”
Dodgers suck!
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 8, 2010 8:51 AM PDT reply actions
Nah, LA was just the 2nd best team in that game.
The Dodgers still managed to get 1 run on 4 hits v. Latos on a night when he fanned 10 in 7 innings. Then they roughed up Adams a bit and forced Bell to pitch for a 5 out save. Yeah, they lost 2-1, but it was a 1 run loss to the Padres’ best pitching, all while Kershaw somehow managed to keep them in the game through his 7 innings with 5 hits and 6 K’s. It’s tough to fault LA for this loss (did anyone notice the glass house we live in?).
No lack of effort here, just lack of result (god, I HATE defending the Dodgers). LA can suck it, but I think they got Petco’ed.
Possible good news: Heath Bell IS their bullpen right now, and the Padres aren’t exactly hitting the crap out of the ball either.
Dude, get ahold of yourself!
I like the rivalry, but what you’re suggesting is ludicrous.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
I think Joe Sheehan summed it up best in his newsletter (which is FANTASTIC, by the way).
The Dodgers are basically the Five-Hour Energy of the NL right now. Since August 20, they’ve dropped two of three to each of the Phillies, Reds, Rockies and Giants, and seem on their way to losing at least that many to the Padres this week. They’ve made the NL races interesting by being equally incompetent against every contender they’ve played, and last night was no exception.
I don’t think the Dodgers players care about the rivalry. Sorry.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
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Fans seem to think the players hate the other team as much as they do. But the Dodgers don’t hate the Giants and the Giants don’t hate the Dodgers with some more exceptions like Nate with the Giants and Lasorda with the Dodgers.
Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
This is actually something I’ve never been comfortable agreeing with. Objectively, I do understand that most players have little to no reason to be personally invested in any particular team rivalry. But it’s just not an enjoyable thought. Maybe it’s realistic, but it also just feels so damn cynical. Too cynical for my blood. The players know what the rivalries are about. They grew up as fans of baseball before they ever played the sport professionally. They know what the fans have invested in this, and they know what the investment of the fans means to them. For some players, it’s not a hell of a lot. I just can’t get myself to believe that the “not a hell of a lot” faction represents the overwhelming majority. Even if the rivalries don’t exist in the classic sense anymore – even for fans – I really do believe that the players still enjoy being a part of that tradition, in general.
They were fans first.
And if I’m just fooling myself and the baseball fan in these players has overwhelmingly been stamped out to the point where the fan experience doesn’t matter to them, well then, I’m really much happier fooling myself about it.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Sep 9, 2010 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions
They get it. They probably don’t feel it with the same intensity as the fans, but they are there and see how into it the fans are and how it isn’t just another game.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 9, 2010 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Heres one thing to consider as a backdrop to your thought process....
….each and (virtually) every one of those players realizes there is a reasonable chance that one day they will wear the uniform of the other team. Most all of those players would wear the uniform of the other team next year (if not tomorrow) for the simple difference of “more money”.
Every player that wears a uniform is going to his JOB. It’s not a recreational pasttime / spectacle in the way we see it. It’s a way to build a standard of life for themselves.
"I don’t know much about sabre-stats but there’s nothing better than white tea and poptarts first thing in the morning" - tk
Adopted parent of Nader Sherafat - Senior Accountant for the SF Giants; because without him, all hell breaks lose.
by Whiteteaandpoptarts on Sep 10, 2010 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, you speak of Johnny Damon.
I’ve seen enough Bill Muellers and Jason Schmidts to understand that players often don’t make any qualms about switching sides. But that’s not to say that they still don’t understand the importance of the rivalry for the side that they are on. Yes, it is a business. Yes, they are doing their jobs. Yes, they are professionals. These are also people. These are fans of the game. I absolutely refuse to be so cynical as to reduce these players to the sums of their contracts. I do not have it in me to do that.
I remember Kirk Rueter, too. The man who, after having his time with the Giants ended, said that he would only even entertain the thought of playing for one other team in the entire league: the Cardinals, his favorite team growing up. When that one single team did not give him an offer (which is not to say that any other team would have – just that he didn’t care that they wouldn’t), he ended it right there.
These are people. So often fans yell at fans for ignoring the human aspect of the game. The intangibles. The clubhouse guys. Sometimes I make the mistake of ignoring the human aspect of the game my own self. But I will never, ever, let myself ignore the human aspect of the players.
And yes, part of that human aspect is greed. But I don’t consider it worthwhile to be so one-sided in the affair.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Sep 10, 2010 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Really, I dont even see it as greed.
These guys just want to play ball. They live to play ball. Playing ball matters so much more to them than the colors of the jersey. Ive seen it up close and personal at the college level. Kid A grew up loving State U, wants to play at State U, but doesnt fit at State U. Kid A also has something of reasonable chance to play professionally one day. Kid A will go to State College, embrace playing at State College, and continue to work towards the MLB. He’d still rather have played at State U, but he just wants to play ball.
Im with you too though. I believe many or most of the players feel the rivalries and know its there. But the intensity of the rivalry never eclipses the desire to just play ball.
"I don’t know much about sabre-stats but there’s nothing better than white tea and poptarts first thing in the morning" - tk
Adopted parent of Nader Sherafat - Senior Accountant for the SF Giants; because without him, all hell breaks lose.
by Whiteteaandpoptarts on Sep 11, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
The players are aware of the rivalry but they don’t care as much as the fans.
BTW, not all players were fans. There are players like Jeff Kent, who didn’t watch baseball as a kid.
Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Maybe your comment was the wrong one for me to make the divergence against, because I don’t really think you’re wrong. I should have responded to this comment: “No. Not one player on either team real gives a shit about the rivalry.”
Which you had nothing to do with.
As for the second part, yeah, of course there are exceptions. That’s the rub whenever you make a blanket statement.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Sep 11, 2010 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions
They give a shit. But they don’t give two shits.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 12, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but who has the time anymore to even wait for two shits? I’ll give you one now, and if you’re willing to wait a while I’ll give you another. But you have other things to do. You can’t sit around waiting for the next six to eight hours. I understand. It’s a busy world. One shit is plenty.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Sep 12, 2010 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions
of course the dodger players hate the giants.
Too bad Jackie robinson isn’t alive for you to ask.
That story is apocryphal.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 9, 2010 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
That has nothing to do with Dodgers-Giants. Blake mocked him. If Blake did it as a Astro, he’d still hate him.
Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
First, I don’t think Blake would have done it if either one of them played for the Astros instead of the rival. Plenty of players, particularly pitchers, have rituals that they do, but they usually don’t get mocked – okay, that probably has something to do with the fact that a lot of rituals involve pointing to the sky, but still. And even if Blake mocked Wilson without the rivalry, I don’t think Wilson would have taken it so personally; the addition of the rivalry on top of the rudeness and the additional media attention brought to the mocking because of that rivalry probably amped up the feelings on both sides quite a bit.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to do that (TM)
I don’t agree. Blake is a douche and would have done it without the rivalry. Wilson got angry because he says it’s a tribute to his father and that was his anger NOT because it was LA.
Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
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