25 for 25: Giants
by Solanus on Aug 4, 2010 11:08 AM PDT
Email
PrintI am actually a St. Louis Cardinals fan, but over the past few months I've been working on a roster for each franchise in the National League, composed of players over the last 25 years. The way this works is that I pick one player from each season and I have to fill out an entire roster (2 catchers, 2 infielders at each position, 6 total outfielders, 5 starting pitchers, 4 relievers). I can't take more than one player for each year, I have to take one player each season even in the bad years, and I can't use the same player for multiple positions. If a player played the majority of his games at one position, I can't use that season for another position even if he's played it before. And I used basically minimums of 60 innings or 250 PA's (prorated for strike seasons).
The interesting part with this are the decisions that have to be made, whether it is, "Dang there are some really nice outfielder seasons to choose from, who gets left out?", or, "Does this team even have two decent catchers in a 25-year span?", or, "This guy had so many great years - which one do I choose?" Sometimes a great year gets left out, sometimes a fluke, partial season gets tabbed for the team.
I actually posted the entire NL East and NL West on the SB Nation site Viva El Birdos, as well as a fully researched extended version for the Cardinals from 1910 to 1934 and (eventually) a post just like this at all of the other NL sites. You're welcome to pick apart my choices and make suggestions of your own. I'm looking forward to hearing from everybody.
P.S. After completing the whole process and receiving comments last week, I realized that I should have utilized both BP's WARP1 and B-R's WAR numbers instead of just WARP1 along with Win Shares and OPS+/ERA+. (Fangraphs' WAR numbers only go back to 2002, so that would not have helped.) There were a couple players with differences of 2+ wins, so there might be a couple head-scratchers. My apologies.
C – Bob Brenly (1987), Kirt Manwaring (1992)
1B – Will Clark (1991), J.T. Snow (2004)
2B – Robby Thompson (1993), Jeff Kent (2002)
3B – Matt Williams (1994), Pablo Sandoval (2009)
SS – Jose Uribe (1986), Rich Aurilia (1999)
OF – Chili Davis (1985), Brett Butler (1988), Kevin Mitchell (1989), Ellis Burks (2000), Barry Bonds (2001), Randy Winn (2005)
SP – Mark Leiter (1995), Shawn Estes (1997), Jason Schmidt (2003), Matt Cain (2007), Tim Lincecum (2008)
RP – Jeff Brantley (1990), Rod Beck (1996), Robb Nen (1998), Kevin Correia (2006)
Notable exceptions: Bengie Molina (2008), Ray Durham (2003), Bill Mueller (1998), Bill Swift (1993), Livan Hernandez (2000), Russ Ortiz (2001), Noah Lowry (2005)
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
36 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Jose Uribe*
BIG 3: SF GIANTS, NY JETS, MIAMI HEAT
HATED 3: LA Dodgers, NE Patriots, MIAMI DOLPHINS
BIG 3 Players: Dwyane Wade, Brian Wilson, and Shaun Ellis
by Newcomb29(EDGE) on Aug 4, 2010 11:12 AM PDT reply actions
this
www.myspace.com/cynemamusic.com
They say there are strangers who threaten us
In our immigrants and infidels
They say there is strangeness too dangerous
In our theaters and bookstore shelves
That those who know what's best for us
Must rise and save us from ourselves
Quick to judge
Quick to anger
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear walk hand in hand...
by Cynema the Band on Aug 4, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry about that
Fixed
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
Sigh, Noah Lowry
Good work though. I’ve enjoyed your lists on the other sites.
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
This is cool.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Aug 4, 2010 11:31 AM PDT reply actions
Pretty cool
Ha, Correia
Also there is a good argument that all 5 outfield spots could be held by Barry Bonds
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
He could play the inner outfield AND the outer outfield!
But that would cut down on the power conservation.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to do that (TM)
WHEELIN' IT BIG
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 6, 2010 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I mentioned the same thing on the D-Backs site
They asked if they could have multiple Randy Johnson seasons.
BTW, nice FoxTrot reference.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
Reply fail
Dang, SBN’d again!
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
Surprises: Randy Winn(05), Mark Leiter(95), Shawn Estes(97), & Kevin Correia(06). The first possible replacement I’d look at would be Billy Swift, but I’m way too lazy to actually look up any stats, much less advanced ones.
Nice job, Solanus! Thanks for posting it here. Where there any that surprised you when you did them?
While you were reading this, Carlos Willoughby just stole second base.
Mark Leiter
I’ve only just started the American League, but I noticed Al Leiter all over the place and he always topped out on the Notable Exceptions portion. His brother Mark has one decent season and he makes the team because the two better options (Bonds, Williams) are spoken for, leaving him, Mark Carreon, and Glenallen Hill. Just thought it was a little weird.
The odd ones are generally because I can’t find a better available option and you have to pick one from each season. It’s kind of like picking the All-Star rosters. (Not that I want to get into that discussion.)
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
some changes
I would move Bonds to 02 or 04 so you can free up Aurillia for 2001.
/auto-defenestrates
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Aug 4, 2010 2:36 PM PDT reply actions
Snow
I think I latched onto the idea that the only other good 1B-man (other than Clark) was Snow and his best year was 2004. I guess I could have taken 1997 as an alternative, dropping Estes in favor of Russ Ortiz in 1999. That gives you Aurilia in ’01 and Bonds in ’04. (I had taken Bonds in ’01 because while the WAR numbers are basically the same, the WARP1 values differ by basically two wins. Plus the whole 73 homers thing.)
I debated grabbing that ‘01 season for Aurilia for quite a while and could have easily gone the way you suggested. You should look at 1985 for the Cards: MVP (cough-fluke-cough) year by Willie McGee vs the best pitching season by a Cardinal in this era by John Tudor. As much as I like Willie, I had to go with the pitching and settled for McGee’s ’90 season.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
this…also, 2001 wasn’t Bonds best year. 2004 was a bit better.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Aug 4, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Notable exceptions: Bengie Molina (2008)
Notable in that it says so much about the 2008 season.
This is a cool project.
Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
Thanks
Even after all these years, I still fondly remember Full Throttle and the main protagonist, Ben (the guy in the picture). Fun little adventure game with a kick-ass opening song.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
I'm very familiar with it.
I’m a longtime old-school LucasArts adventure game fan. It’s too bad LucasArts didn’t go through with finishing Full Throttle 2. The world needed more Star Wars games, I suppose.
I was at Lucas around the time that game was being made. Trust me, Natto… the world is better off for that game being canceled. And this is coming from a HUGE Full Throttle fan.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 5, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
If you’re interested, the whole game soundtrack is from the album Bone to Pick by a band called the Gone Jackals. It’s a pretty rad album if you’re into that sort of thing.
by The Double Deuce on Aug 5, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I know
My brother looked up all of the info on that. I already have the song on I-Tunes.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
Burkett in 1993 wasn't better than Leiter in 1995?
by patneededthetowel on Aug 4, 2010 5:22 PM PDT reply actions
Of course not
But who are you going to take in 1995 to replace Thompson at 2B? Robby was excellent in ‘93 and I thought it was more important to celebrate him.
Besides, if I’m picking a starting pitcher for 1993, I’ll pick Bill Swift over Burkett. In both WARP1 and WAR, Swift has the distinct advantage.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
Yay Billy Swift!
Solanus, as a non-Giants-fan, you did us proud. Good job.
While you were reading this, Carlos Willoughby just stole second base.
OF
I know the season isn’t over, and I was too lazy to read all the “rules”, but you should take Andres Torres for the OF and bump Butler. If the season ended today, Andres Torres should win the MVP, but probably won’t even garner a vote sadly.
So optimistic I fart sunshine and rainbows.
Giants Front Office....Torture!
Butler was a heck of a player
But Chili Davis would be the one to go and it would be easy in regard to roster contruction. The timeframe for the team would switch to 1986-2010 and the players coming & going are both outfielders, so no mess.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
Don't overlook Aubrey Huff
He actually leads NL position players in both WARP1 and WAR (Baseball-Reference). Torres does lead him on the Fangraphs’ WAR leaderboard, but trails both Joey Votto and Ryan Zimmerman.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
Not overlooking Huff
But Andres Torres shows the weakness of WAR because it assumes all CF are equal from a defensive perspective. The jumps Torres gets on balls is amazing and his UZR is second best in baseball to Crawford. Also, WAR relies heavily on wOBA which doesn’t account for park. So Votto playing in Cincinatti has an advantage over Torres and Huff, and wOBA and WAR don’t account for division so Votto wins again by playing in the worst division in baseball. Taking a look at UZR (which is inperfect as well)
UZR
Torres 14.1
Zimmerman 8.7
Votto 4.5
Huff -4.3
Torres’ defense has been other-worldly, and given that Zimmerman and Votto both play in much more hitter-friendly parks and divisions, I don’t think WAR does Tores justice. On a scarier note, he’s been working with Will Clark to improve his ability to drive the ball since the beginning of July, check out his HR totals by month:
Mar/Apr 0
May 2
June 1
July 7
He’s definitely a late bloomer, but I actually think Torres could be getting better as the season progresses.
So optimistic I fart sunshine and rainbows.
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Aug 5, 2010 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
WAR is park adjusted and it includes UZR…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Really
In looking at “The Book” and tangotiger’s calculation for WAR I didn’t see any thing within the calculation that accounted for either. Do you know where you can find an accurate formula for WAR?
So optimistic I fart sunshine and rainbows.
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Aug 5, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
this is for fangraphs
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/#winvalues
have fun
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I haven’t read any of this thread. Just popped in to say: Nice avatar!
by The Double Deuce on Aug 5, 2010 9:03 PM PDT reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
