2010 Fans Scouting Report
Please fill one out if you've got a few minutes to spare!
almost 2 years ago
JT Jordan
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Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
"ZIPS Is Indeed Supose To Science." --GRM
This is AWESOME!
Straw hats can’t even claim RIBEYES!
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on Aug 26, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Meaningless
The fans that fill this out are the fans who are biased by both the knowledge of and belief in defensive stats.
Way to have fun with it!
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Aug 26, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure how that makes it biased, nor is your statement necessarily true. Fill it out and counter balance the biased folks then.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Aug 26, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
This comment made me smile and laugh a little bit. Oh, GRM!
by Missing Barry on Aug 26, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
You forgot to mention the fans that are biased towards making their own players appear better than other teams and the like.
Is it biased? Yes, in more than one way. But is it meaningless? Absolutely not. It can help give us another perspective, and that alone gives it meaning.
BTW, I’ve posted the same thing at another site where very few others use defensive metrics or believe in them.
Triples Alley: Analysis of the San Francisco Giants, Baseball, and Sabermetrics.
GRM is just taking a preemptive strike at us when we try to use that informatino to not blindly go with everything the Giants do because “the scouts signed off on it”. Nothing to see here….
by Missing Barry on Aug 26, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I Think Your Hatred For Sabean Is Clouding Your Judgement
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 26, 2010 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
/chasm
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 26, 2010 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
rec'd
beautifully done.
Triples Alley: Analysis of the San Francisco Giants, Baseball, and Sabermetrics.
Chasm?
It was interesting to see that the Giants fans have provided the most data thus far. But a large enough sample should reveal some pretty reliable data points. Obvioulsy you can’t take it for gospel truth but some truths will emerge—truths more reliable than any current defensive metric—given a large enough sample.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
Oops.
I failed to notice it was GRM. So not Chasm, Trollism
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
In Otherwords It Is Not Scouting - It Is Just Predetermined Biases
by giantsrainman on Aug 26, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I can’t stop laughing.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 26, 2010 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions
It would be interesting to see a conversation between GRM and Tango on the bias of the FSR, how he deals with it, how it affects the data, and ultimately, what the end results do actually tell us….
I would be entertained. ;)
by Missing Barry on Aug 27, 2010 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Tango’s a REALLY patient guy, but I wonder if he too would start banging his head on the wall.
Triples Alley: Analysis of the San Francisco Giants, Baseball, and Sabermetrics.
there are grains of salt of everywhere. You should take one every once in a while.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
Preview!
There are grains of salt everywhere. You should take one every once in a while.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
Very cool – nicely posted.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Aug 26, 2010 1:31 PM PDT reply actions
Gave Torres 5 on everything besides throwing (4’s on those), and Huff Daddy a 2 on everything. Sound reasonable?
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 26, 2010 7:06 PM PDT reply actions
Huff?
Have you even WATCHED him play this year? A 2 on EVERYTHING? Good lord.
by BustaTheRippa on Aug 26, 2010 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah....he's been fair.
That’s what a 2 is.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 27, 2010 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions
He Has Been Above Average
You have been biased by his defensive stats from previous years.
by giantsrainman on Aug 27, 2010 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, the proper thing to do is rather than argue over each other’s takes, is to submit your own evaluation to the survey. There’s nothing bad at all with a “wrong” evaluation in a survey, as you expect a whole range of opinions and the value comes in getting the full range and seeing the mean/median/variation.
by Missing Barry on Aug 27, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Your Are Missing The Point
Almost all filling out this survey are subject to this same source of bias (defensive stats) and this is why the survey is both meaningless and worthless.
by giantsrainman on Aug 27, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Your Are Missing The Point
No, I was not missing the point. I was not addressing the point you are referring to at all. I was addressing a completely different point.
And honestly, your statement of “meaningless and worthless” is…just not part of a productive conversation about how to overcome difficulties when doing something like this – difficulties that it IS possible to overcome.
by Missing Barry on Aug 27, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
He asked for an opinion.
And he got 1. You’d have a point if all he said was I think Huff is a 2, but when he asks if it is a fair grade, there is nothing wrong with telling him why his grade was good or bad, in this case bad.
by BustaTheRippa on Aug 27, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Well the point is having a discussion on what grade to give kinda ruins the survey. Instead of getting the expected distribution you would, now you have people influencing each other and potentially skewing the real distribution.
by Missing Barry on Aug 29, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
What, specifically, do you disagree with?
by Missing Barry on Aug 27, 2010 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Huff
I think I give him a 4 on reaction/instincts, and a mixture of 3’s and 2’s everywhere else.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
GRM
Gets a 5 on reactionariness
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
"ZIPS Is Indeed Supose To Science." --GRM
That’s about what I did too. It’s interesting to see where people end up on this. From what I’ve read, the Fan Scouting Reports on defense, in the aggregate, turn out to be pretty reliable when compared to other metrics. I think it’s a really cool way to get more data and get fans involved in data analysis/collection.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Aug 27, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Because Fans Are Just Repeating The Metrics Because They're Biased
From what I’ve read, the Fan Scouting Reports on defense, in the aggregate, turn out to be pretty reliable when compared to other metrics.
by Missing Barry on Aug 27, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
You’ve shown me the error of my ways…thank you!
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Aug 27, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s a real concern, imho. I suspect that the people who fill out the survey are overwhelmingly the same people who know, off the tops of their heads, the approximate UZR scores for most of the players in the league. It would be difficult indeed not to have one’s judgment affected by this information.
Agreed
I think the only thing you can hope for is that you get enough people who don’t operate that way to bring it to a median.
What would also be interesting is if Tango could separate the data with a question of people’s knowledge of UZR and compare the differences in the rankings.
"There was hatred. And they had some hatred. And then there was some more hatred. And then the Giants won. Woo hoo!" - Mike Krukow
It’s a real concern, imho.
Of course it’s a real concern. Anytime you survey there are lots of real concerns. That doesn’t mean there’s not a solution, or that Tango hasn’t considered it and made an adjustment of some kind to deal with the potential bias. That’s the point – I guarantee Tango understands the concern and has given it some thought and tried to deal with it. To simply dismiss the entire thing because you have “a concern”, without knowing whether it’s actually been solved, is ridiculous.
by Missing Barry on Aug 29, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I just did one
And after seeing the results I’m surprised that Uribe was so high and Rowand and Renteria were so low
Buster Posey>
Well, that makes sense
Because Uribe is a better shortstop than Renteria. Both have minimal range, the difference is in arm strength and the difference is pretty big.
Rowand is what I’d call average at best at this stage in his career, so you might have a point with him.
by BustaTheRippa on Aug 27, 2010 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Rent has slightly more range than Uribe
Though both are subpar
Buster Posey>
by Gobroks on Aug 27, 2010 10:05 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Having a good arm seems to get more weight in the final numbers than it really deserves. Nate Schierholtz is a more well rounded defensive player than Andres Torres, but who do you think is the better defender?
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
by oldjacket on Aug 27, 2010 5:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
^^ this ^^
I don’t necessarily see how Nate is more well-rounded than Yungo, either. Is it the wacky routes Andres sometimes takes?
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
"ZIPS Is Indeed Supose To Science." --GRM
I think he's saying that Nate is more well rounded because he has a lot of range + a cannon
I could be misinterpreting though
Buster Posey>
Nate has a better arm, is all.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
I saw this about 2 minutes after Tango posted it
But I didn’t post a Fanshot because I was in the middle of moving. My recs!
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Huff has seemed about dead-average to me as I've ever felt about a player
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
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