Today, I root for Los Angeles.
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 12:19 PM PDT
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PrintLook, no one here actually likes rooting for the Dodgers, but the attitude that we cannot wish the Dodgers to win in any circumstance, ever is a ridiculous stance to take.
1) We are Giants fans. And yes, a big part of being a Giants fan is that visceral reaction to all things Dodger Blue. We feel like the folksy, family-friendly "Dodgertown" campaign should carry a disclaimer. We can watch a old Italian man get hit with a baseball a million times in a row and laugh every time. We might not even know why it's so important that SIRM suck it, yet we instruct him to do so every chance we get. But far more important than Tommy Lasorda or Russell Martin is wishing the best for our team.
ii) We cannot win alone. There are 15 other teams in the Senior Circuit, and we need certain ones to lose. People say we need to handle our own business and not worry about the other teams. And that's good advice to those actually on the Giants roster. But from a fan's perspective (assuming that we can indeed affect the wills of the baseball gods from our mom's basements), it's not that simple. We need the Giants to win, but just as important as that, we need our competition to lose. And sometimes they'll need to lose to the Dodgers. The obvious theoretical is when there's three games left and the Dodgers are playing whoever we're trailing by two games- I'd assume we'd all begrudgingly hope SIRM blasts one out in the bottom of the ninth to knock the other team out of contention. But it's never too early to make those games up. If the Dodgers take care of the Padres and/or Phillies now, maybe we won't have to give a shit what either of them do in September. And sure, it may end up that the Dodgers will be the team to beat in September, but all we can do is act on what we know now- and what we know now is that the Padres, Phillies, and Cardinals need to lose.
three) It can actually be fun, in a perverse way. You know how 22gigantes views us? Screaming, violent, angry, schizophrenic people swearing at our TVs night in and night out? You actually get to do that. When you have to root for the Dodgers, you will come up with the most creative, vile "encouragement" that will ever cross your lips. Your significant other and/or dog will get scared. You'll put the dirtiest things Proops, Pryor, and Saget ever said to shame. It'll feel dirty, but a little bit right.
IV) We cannot be defined by another team. This is the bigger issue at stake. Look at how pathetic the Red Sox fans were. They allowed the Yankees to get so far under their skin that the Red Sox and their fans became to be defined by the Yankees. Even those of us who didn't give a shit about the AL East knew the rivalry was the New York Yankees vs the Boston Not-The-Yankees. I'm not saying that the Giants fans or the McCoven are in danger of making that same mistake any time soon, but the seeds of such a downfall remain. We are the San Francisco Giants. They are the Los Angeles Dodgers. We can and should unload every ounce of baseball hate upon them any time we can. But what it boils down to is that they are one of five teams in this division, and we need to be better than all of them, no matter the cesspool they emerge from.
Bobby Thomson, Joe Morgan, and Brian Johnson will live forever in Giants history. Joe Morgan because he beat the Dodgers, but Thomson and Johnson because they won, and that's what matters.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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I'd rather die
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
Painfully and horribly
But yeah
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Aug 10, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Long ago I accepted that my rooting interests have no control over wins and losses
Therefore, I can wholeheartedly root for the Dodgers to not only lose every single game they play, but to lose in a manner befitting the complete and total scum they are (being no-hit by a September callup is fappable IMO).
If the Dodgers lose, and it hurts us…it’s ok, because an angel gets its wings.
And if they overcome their epic suckishness, win a game and it helps the Giants playoff chances…well, I think we’ve found our silver lining.
by otis29 on Aug 10, 2010 12:39 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
"it hurts us…it’s ok"
Nope.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
if it hurts us
it’s good for the Dodgers.
which hurts us again.
so I’m going to go with troy on this one.
Go jump in Toews Lake.
Aubrey: old German for king of the elves. Huff: English for...huff.
This rule applies to many things.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Aug 10, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
This entire community is based on things that shouldn’t be brought outside our own homes.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, my focus is on the division. I’m pretty much ignoring the wild card, probably because I think it’s a tougher situation due to all the teams involved. So I see your point, but as long as the Giants beat the Padres the Phillies don’t matter to me.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Aug 10, 2010 12:44 PM PDT reply actions
This.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
Yep
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis who is stuck in the baseball purgatory called extended spring training.
I want the Phillies to catch the Braves but otherwise who gives
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Aug 10, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Truth
We beat the Padres 3 times this weekend, we beat the Padres 3 times at the end of the season, we won’t need to worry about who the Dodgers are playing.
Why do people make such a fuss over who they “root” for in games that the Giants aren’t involved in? Honestly, who cares? Does it mean anything at all? Does your rooting for the Dodgers or the Phillies or the Padres make any difference whatsoever?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
No
but rooting for the Giants doesn’t really help anything either. So why are any of us even here?
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, that’s just the definition of being a fan. But I don’t get why there have been so many huge comment threads about rooting for the Dodgers vs rooting for who the Dodgers are playing recently.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
“the definition of being a fan” would be wanting the best thing for your team, no? A Padre loss is numerically the same as a Giant win.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure, but I just don’t understand why it’s such a topic of conversation and why it has to go into “IF YOU ROOT FOR THE DODGERS YOU’RE NOT A TRUE FAN!” and “IF YOU ROOT FOR NOT-THE-DODGERS, YOU’RE NOT A TRUE FAN!”
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
That’s why I don’t root for anybody.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Aug 10, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I root around in the bushes.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 10, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s like a compulsion.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 10, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
GET OFF MY LAWN you damned whippersnapper!
"You can always recover from the player you didn't sign. You may never recover from the player you signed at the wrong price." --Billy Beane
"I am not an idiot."--Brian Sabean
by Sabean's_Folly on Aug 10, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think it’s a TRUE FAN thing, though one could easily do so for either side if they wanted to.
And I don’t see why it’s a such a topic of conversation either, but that’s because it’s so obvious to me yet people keep saying, well “I’d rather die painfully and horribly than root for LA,” which could very well end up with the Padres atop the West, the Philles atop the wild card, and a bunch of horribly-dead people which is no good for anyone with a soul.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
The fans could say “I will root for the Dodgers if they are playing are biggest competition” and it could still end up with the Padres atop the West, the Phillies atop the wild card, and a bunch of horribly-dead people which is no good for anyone with a soul.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
wow did I just use "are" instead of "our"
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Well, again, I wrote the post from the perspective that our desperate pleas to the baseball gods would be heard. If you want to argue that it’s too early to decide who the real competition will be it’s one thing, but I don’t know why the the fantasy of rooting for a baseball team ends at the boundaries of whatever ballpark our team happens to be in.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't
For the record, I’m in the “always root against the Dodgers” camp. I just don’t understand why it matters so much to people that we need to keep having this argument. If you choose to root for the Dodgers, I’m not going to judge you for it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
IF YOU DO NOT ENGAGE IN HYPERBOLE YOU ARE NOT A TRUE FAN
and furthermore, I will drop you from my Christmas card list.
"I don’t think I’ve ever heard a louder chorus of boos than when the Dodgers made the third out of the ninth. It was awesome.." - Aubrey Huff
We root for the Dodgers to lose for the same reason we root for the Giants to win
Honestly, if you can’t understand the necessity of this debate then I think you should become a Seattle Mariners fan, or some other nondescript team.
So optimistic I fart sunshine and rainbows.
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Aug 10, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow, okay.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
What I’m saying is that if you don’t understand the dynamic of Giants-Dodgers than why be a Giants fan? Why subject yourself to a perpetual non-world series winningness, when you could just as easily root for a team with little history and no-rivals who will most likely win the World Series before the Giants do. Half of being a Giants fan, is hating the Dodgers, if we lose that then it’s no different from being a Mariners fan.
Sorry if it came across harsh though.
So optimistic I fart sunshine and rainbows.
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Aug 10, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
How about you NOT assume that I don’t understand the dynamic of Giants-Dodgers?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I didn't assume
Sure, but I just don’t understand why it’s such a topic of conversation and why it has to go into "IF YOU ROOT FOR THE DODGERS YOU’RE NOT A TRUE FAN!" and "IF YOU ROOT FOR NOT-THE-DODGERS, YOU’RE NOT A TRUE FAN!".
It was based on that.
So optimistic I fart sunshine and rainbows.
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Aug 10, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
So not being interested in dictating other peoples’ level of fandom now means I don’t understand the dynamic? Okay.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
If you get the SF Giants Urn or Casket and a tattoo marking your level of Giants fandom you will receive 50 extra ultimate fan points. Bonus points for where the tattoo is placed.
The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.
Heh. Like David Cross on Flags (NSFW language)
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 11, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Neck tattoos always say ‘class’.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 11, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Half of being a Giants fan, is hating the Dodgers
See, that’s what my last paragraph is about. I refuse to get so caught up in hating the Dodgers that I forget that my team winning is far more important than the Dodgers’ success or failure will ever be.
If half of being a Giants fan is hating the Dodgers, why don’t we have a parade down Market Street every time the Dodgers get eliminated? Because ultimately, it’s not as important.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay
Maybe 60-40, but it’s still a major component.
So optimistic I fart sunshine and rainbows.
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Aug 10, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
This whole debate is asinine
Unless you really believe your rooting interests have any control on the outcome of a game/season/playoff spot.
I enjoy rooting for the Giants. I enjoy rooting against the Dodgers. If the Dodgers win and it helps the Giants, well fine – but it’s not because you or I did or didn’t root for or against the Dodgers.
Unless you really believe your rooting interests have any control on the outcome of a game/season/playoff spot.
No, they obviously don’t. But we all pretend they do. That’s why we rally cap and don’t talk about no-hitters and yell at Grant when he predicts good things. It’s all a part of our shared fantasy. You’re free to make fun of it and bitch when someone’s in a bad mood because of what 25 people they don’t know did on a really well-kept lawn, but within that fantasy, it seems to me that if you care enough to root for your team, you’d care enough to root against its competition.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
You just sort of proved her point.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Aug 10, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve read it 10 times and I’m still confused.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I will take your advice. Thank you for straightening me out on my rooting interests.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 10, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Anytime.
So optimistic I fart sunshine and rainbows.
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Aug 10, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
The only time you can root for the Dodgers
Is in games that are played in September, that is unless you’re rooting for the Dodgers to get injured, or for Tommy Lasorda to choke on a meatball, these things can be rooted for year ’round. Also, the obvious, rooting for Russell Martin to suck it is acceptable even after he leaves the Dodgers.
So optimistic I fart sunshine and rainbows.
Giants Front Office....Torture!
This is the only argument that really makes sense to me- Like I said, it could end up that the Dodgers will be the team we desperately need to beat in the end, and if that’s the case we’d all be retroactively cursing the Padres for not whomping them way back in late July. So yeah, it’s too early to know for sure who we’ll be up against. But as it stands now, I want to be ahead of the pack, and San Diego in in our way.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
This
I would only root for the Dodgers in one circumstance: a Dodger victory is what is necessary to keep the Giants from being eliminated. That is not yet the case. If it’s late September and the Bums have to win for us to make the playoffs, then I want them to win. That’s it.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to do that (TM)
I can’t bring myself to do it.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 10, 2010 1:10 PM PDT reply actions
This.
I get what troy’s saying, but still, duck the Fodgers.
"I don’t think I’ve ever heard a louder chorus of boos than when the Dodgers made the third out of the ninth. It was awesome.." - Aubrey Huff
Sadly true.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 11, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Isn't there something better to do than to debate this point for the 78th time?
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
go root for the Mariners
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
FUCK THE MARINERS
Before the season began. Dave Cameron ranked the Mariners what? 6th best organization in baseball based on the moves made by Jack Z in his first year as the manager? Then all the sabermetrics guys jumped on their banwagon. The mariners have two aces! They are going to win the West. Texas has no pitching! The A’s suck! The Angels are vulnerable after losing lackey! This is the year of the Mariners BLAH BLAH BLAH Look how great Jack Z is and how retarded the San Francisco Giants and their worst GM in baseball Brian Sabean. Old school has no place in this world, Sabermetrics reigns supreme! Death to Traditional scouting, the game should be run by computers RAH RAH RAH!!!!!
Guess what? UZR is not the new OBP. Saving Runs are great, but you have to at least be able to score SOME runs. How did that “we’ll carry 3 DH who hits 10 HRs combined” work out? Oh that wasn’t so good? How about that Aubrey Huff is the worst signing this offseason? The idea that THERE IS NO DIMINISHING RETURN ON DEFENSE VALUE ? How much of this UZR is wroth its weight in gold and can be stacked the same way OBP is hand job are you going to force feed us, Dave Cameron?
Fuck you, Mariners. FUCK YOU. I hope you lose 100 games. I hope you fired Wakamatsu over Ken Griffey Jr Day. I hope you are the doormat of AL West for years to come.
This concludes my Rant of the day.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
That's just terrible
You’d think someone in the front office would have pointed that out. It’s not like it would’ve killed them to wait another day or two before firing the guy.
"I don’t think I’ve ever heard a louder chorus of boos than when the Dodgers made the third out of the ninth. It was awesome.." - Aubrey Huff
Why would you get so worked up about the Mariners? I kind-of like them, as far as I can like any team that plays the fake baseball they play in the AL.
Fun fact: "Mota" is Bengali for "fat".
The problem is not they went for defense over offense, but that nearly all of their hitters have been much, much worse than one could have expected.
I disagree, it’s way more than just that.
It all seems so obvious now, doesn’t it? Bringing back Ken Griffey? Trading for Milton Bradley? Giving 32-year-old Chone Figgins (and his lifetime 99 OPS+) a big-money four-year deal based mostly on one good season (and them moving him to second base)? Signing 32-year-old Jack Wilson to a multi-year contract though he had not played a full-season in two years? Going into the season with Rob Johnson, and his 58 career OPS+, slotted as the regular catcher? Trading for light-hitting Casey Kotchman and inserting him as the Opening Day No. 3 hitter? Building up all sorts of hopes about Ian Snell as a No. 3 starter? Making the moves of a "contender" when the team finished dead last in the American League in runs scored in 2009 and were outscored by 52 runs? Trading a 25-year-old one-time phenom Brandon Morrow and his 98-mph fastball for an older hard-throwing reliever with the same first name (Brandon League)? Expecting another low ERA closer year from David Aardsma? Letting go of Russell Branyan who was one of only two good offensive players on the team in 2009 (he led the team in OPS+)?
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2010/08/09/why-we-miss-the-obvious-mariners-edition/
This is more than “oh shucks, our players didn’t play to expectation”. This is a case of poor decision making and a GM that’s out to prove he’s smarter than the rest of the world and getting ass raped as a result.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I don’t think it’s fair to say that the M’s GM was out to prove he’s smarter than the rest of the world. Most of that rhetoric came from M’s fans.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
That’s fair, although I still think he’s out to prove he had a superior plan by viewing UZR as the new moneyball.
If we assume he isn’t out to prove a point, Jack Z is simply incompetent then. He overestimated his team’s potential, making moves to take the team over the top, not building te team from the ground up.
Pitching and Defense cannot win when you are dead last in OBP and SLG. The Mariners are dead last in both, yes that includes the National league. That’s how dreadful they are offensively. That’s simply not the case of all the players slumping together, that’s a bad GM making bad moves to put this pile of steaming shit of a team together.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I don’t care enough about the Mariners to look it up, but I suspect that almost all of their key regulars has underperformed their projections by quite a bit. Sometimes good plans don’t work out. It happens.
Has Zduriencik hurt their long-term future by trying to push the team over the top? I don’t see how.
the point is they were not good plannings
Signing Cone Figgins with career 98OPS+ to an overpaid 3 year deal is not good planning. The Jack Wilson trade is not good planning. Trading for Milton Bradley knowing his checkered past is not good planning.
There are not good plannings that backfired. These are poor planning AND they backfired.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Clearly we’re not going to see eye to eye on this, since I liked most of those moves at the time just fine. Still do, for the most part.
The point of Posnaski’s post, now that I read it, is that it was silly for people to expect great things from the Mariners, which of course it was. Teams don’t go from 61 wins to 85 wins to 92 wins just like that. I personally don’t know anyone who expected great things from the Mariners, but I’ll take your word for it that they’re out there.
I just don’t see what else Zduriencik was supposed to do. Sure, we now know that the correct answer was to sign Aubrey Huff, trade for Scott Rolen, give up on Bedard and replace him with Colby Lewis, yada yada, but who knew that at the time? He took a shot, it flopped, now he tries over. He wasn’t a savior a year ago, and he’s not incompetent now.
Well, I could work, I suppose.
But actually I was getting sick of the argument being in gamethreads, so I wanted to Fanpost it.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think it matters either way
No baseball team is playing for my approval.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 10, 2010 1:37 PM PDT reply actions
Obviously not
as proven by the continued lack of Norwegian Heritage Night.
"I don’t think I’ve ever heard a louder chorus of boos than when the Dodgers made the third out of the ninth. It was awesome.." - Aubrey Huff
Exactly
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Aug 10, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I root for the Dodgers to lose
however, if they happen to win and it helps the Giants in the standings, then I wholeheartedly laugh at the Dodgers for inadvertently helping their archrivals, but it’s an after the fact deal. There will always be time to make up ground lost due to a Dodger loss.
I would, though, make a narrow exception if it were the last game of the season and a Dodger win would put the Giants into the playoffs and a loss would knock them out of the playoffs.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 10, 2010 2:22 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I don’t even see how this is a big deal. Fuck the dodgers. But would I rather see them win a lot and the Giants make the playoffs, or rather see them lose a lot and the Giants miss the playoffs?
I have seen the future of Major League Baseball, and its name is Buster Posey.
Precisely.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
The Dodgers are not out of it
They are just as legitimate of a contender in the wildcard as the Rockies and the Philles are. Why should I root for A RIVAL OF MINE just because they are playing a team that is marginally closer to the wild card lead?
This doesn’t make any sense at all. Do you root for the Dodgers to beat the Padres in June? In May? When is it too early to start rooting for the dodgers? If this is acceptable when the Dodgers are still in contention, are they really our Rivals at all? Does the rivalry mean anything? Do we print BEAT PHI T-shirts?
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Well, I’d argue that they are NOT just as legitimate as COL or PHI, because, well, they’re not. They are less legitimate. But as I’ve done above, I’ll accept that maybe it’s too early to worry about the standings. But from here, it looks like we’ll be grappling with the Padres in the West and Philly & StL for the Wild Card, and I want them to lose.
And yes, the rivalry means something; always has and Mays-willing always will. And if we’re out of it, I will always take great pride in taking them down with us, given the opportunity (like 1991, when people wore Dodger hats with tomahawks in them). But I’m not cutting off my nose to spite my face.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
nobody is saying anything about cutting off your nose to spite your face
If it is Sep 23rd, they are playing the Padres, we are one game back and dodgers 8 games out, sure. Root for the Dodgers to beat the Padres.
Right now? That’s way to early. The case you are presenting is to treat Dodgers like any other team, which I just cannot agree with. At all.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
But they are just “any other team.”
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Aug 10, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
this is where we disagree. They are not. They are the Dodgers.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I mean, this is essentially the crux of the argument right here
the OP says : Dodgers are any other team, and when they play anybody that is closer to contention, I root for them. Even in July and August.
I say : FUCK THE DODGERS. Until one or 2 wins in late september either breaks our opponent’s back or propel us into the playoffs. Until then, and as long as they are anywhere near contention, Fuck the Dodgers.
One of these two lines of thinking treats this like a rivalry. The other treats it like any random two teams (say, marlins vs brewers in a wild card race). I choose to live in the Rivalry world. If you don’t like it, that’s fine, but don’t come here expecting to convince people to live outside of the Rivalry world.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I don’t think those two points of view are mutually exclusive.
We’ll both root for the Dodgers to beat someone if our appearance in the postseason depends on it. I’m just saying that- as a fraction of 162- every game we gain in the standings is just as valuable in early August as it is in late September. All things being equal, I’d love for the Dodger to go 0-162 and would grin like an idiot for the entire postseason if it happened. But the reality is, sometimes the Dodgers won’t be threatening us directly at all after the Break. But they can still hurt us by allowing our more direct competition to gain on us.
Look at it this way: If game 163 was Giants vs Dodgers, winner-take-all, and we won, I think we could all agree that that would be the single best regular-season game of the year (if not the decade). But wouldn’t it be pretty damn sweet if the Dodgers ended up fighting tooth-and-nail just to end up ensuring our success?
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
but that's not what you are saying in OP
Anyways, the discussion is moot. I’m not going to change your mind, so whatever.
Just please, I hope this fanpost is the last time we have to discuss this issue.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
It’s exactly what I said in the OP. The first two paragraphs of this response, anyway.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
The old, games in September are more important than games in April argument, eh? Well, it’s been proven wrong. And you are half right…one line of thinking treats it as if it is a rivalry, you are 100% right here. The other treats it like their team, in this case the Giants, winning is #1.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Aug 10, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
No, Games in September shows me who are really in contention
Until then, everybody is in contention (for the most part) and it is pointless to “root for your rival over another team just because it might gain a game of advantage”.
The other does not treat it like their team. Make it this way. You root for the dodgers to beat Philadelphia. The Dodgers sweep them. Then go on a 7 game winning streak. Now they are 2 games behind the Giants. and way ahead of the Phillies. Boy, rooting for them was the wrong choice, wasn’t it?
It’s a crap shoot until you get down to the final few days. Until then, root against your rivals. I don’t know why it is so difficult for you to understand this concept.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
It’s not that I don’t understand, it’s that you don’t. :D
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Aug 10, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Rec'd. The OP is awesome.
I’ve considered making a similar one for a while, but so many of the McCoven are blinded by their hatred for the Dodgers that is seems almost pointless. But why such an irrational hatred?
Let’s see. The Giants and Dodgers were natural, geographic, adversaries for years. Then they both moved to the west coast and this relationship was somewhat maintained. The thing is, Why? Why root against the Dodgers? We are raised from a young age to despise all things LA, especially the Dodgers. But where does this enmity come from?
There have been important games between the two teams, and some amazing moments. But what it really comes down to, as far as I can see, is the media force feeding this hatred down our throats for years. I lived in SoCal for six years and got to see things from the other side, and it is exactly the same. The media constantly harps on the rivalry and what it really is is a ploy to garner more interest and money in the games. That’s it. It is marketing. Other than being taught to hate, where does your distaste for the Dodgers come from? I know there are a couple old timers who frequent this site that remember the old days when there truly was a rivalry and they can talk about Roseboro and Marichal and the ’62 pennant chase and things of that sort.
Sure we have had high tension important games against the Dodgers, but we have had them against other teams. Arguably, we could/should despise the Marlins or the Angels more. But it’s all Dodgers Suck all the time. I blame the media for fostering this resentment. It sure does create interest and sell tickets. At some level it is just continuing to foster our warlike nature. Divide and conquer. USA, USA, USA. It’s just another facet of how deeply fractured our society has and always has been. The Dodgers / Giants rivalry is nothing special, it’s just the sports version of politics for Californians.
It can be fun, yes. But the irrationality about the rivalry is just plain silly. As a Giants fan, first and foremost you root for your team to win or to be in a better position to win. Stupidity such as “I’d rather the Dodgers lose even if it cost us a playoff spot” really doesn’t sound like a fan to me.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Aug 10, 2010 3:06 PM PDT reply actions
I wouldn’t go that far. I do indeed loathe the Dodgers more than any other team (Angels a close second), and I’m not sure I agree that it’s all (or even most) a media construction. I actually hear very little about it in the mainstream media; it seems to genuinely come from the fans… perhaps even because it’s been diluted since the days of NYC. Not many Big Moments have happened vs LA since Brian Johnson, but our memories of moments like that keep the fire burning.
Other than being taught to hate, where does your distaste for the Dodgers come from
?
Again, we all buy into this fantasy world of sports where the Giants are “our guys” and the Dodgers are bums. I don’t see anything with that, and (to a point IMHO) irrational hatred of the Dodgers is indeed a big part of it. I agree with your final point- but hating the Dodgers the rest of the time is, well, great fun, and has been for Giants fans since the 1880s.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I root against the Dodgers most of the time. It’s schaendefreude, though. For me, it is not particularly fun, so much as compulsive. I recognize it as a bad personal trait and as such am probably (definitely) more sensitive to it than most others.
I actually envy my friends who don’t care about sports. In general, they seem to be happier than sports fans. Obviously, if you get emotionally involved in something you have little ability to effect, you are doomed to experience a lot of misery. Especially in such a flawed sport as the MLB.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Aug 10, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s what the internet is for.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps so. But may I ask you, is hating good? If not, then isn’t it prudent to find a way to stop hating?
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Aug 10, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I think there’s a distinction to be made between sports-fan hate and actual, emotional hate.
Sports-fan hate is part of the shared experience among sports fans, as long as it doesn’t get out of hand. It doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the hate that is a genuine character flaw.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
I hate the Dodgers in that they’re our rivals, and I want my team to do better than them. Do I honestly hate any of the individuals that make up the Dodgers team and organization? Definitely not.
Not even Lasorda?
"I don’t think I’ve ever heard a louder chorus of boos than when the Dodgers made the third out of the ninth. It was awesome.." - Aubrey Huff
If the rumors about his son are true. Not that I expect to ever know that particular truth.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
But there is fan violence. This is an extreme, but every little bit of the “hatred” lends itself to this happening. By promoting the hatred we are also creating the cause for more violence to occur. It may not be you, or me, or anyone here, but it could happen as a result. Based on the sheer number of fans on this site, it wouldn’t surprise me if someone had experienced some form of altercation due to the rivalry.
I’ve been fortunate, no one has ever poured beer on me (which would be worse than getting punched) but I have had peanuts thrown at me. It’s petty and stupid, but is still a minor form of violence.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Aug 10, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Why?
Because duck the Fodgers, that’s why.
"I don’t think I’ve ever heard a louder chorus of boos than when the Dodgers made the third out of the ninth. It was awesome.." - Aubrey Huff
"Fuck"
The word is “Fuck.”
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Aug 10, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, ‘Dodgers’.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 10, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I stand by my statement.
"I don’t think I’ve ever heard a louder chorus of boos than when the Dodgers made the third out of the ninth. It was awesome.." - Aubrey Huff
You may want to have a towel with you.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Aug 10, 2010 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions
This is somewhat true
I mean, the rivalry doesn’t have as many legitimate reasons to exist as it once did. The teams and fans certainly operate somewhere between “dislike” and “rabid hate”, but it’s less clear why. There is some justification, particularly the assholery of Casey Blake and Russell Martin, but certainly less than there was sixty or even thirty years ago. And there have been fewer in-game incidents, both in terms of plays and fights, than there have been in the past.
On the other hand, Fuck The Dodgers.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to do that (TM)
But why such an irrational hatred?
Giants fans are, by definition, bitter and irritable. If you’re not, you haven’t been following the team long enough.
Hate hate hate. Nobody is saying “I’d rather see the Dodgers lose,” they’re saying “duck the Fodgers.” Totally different. If you need them to win a game for you at the end of the season, and they lose, they’re idiots. If they win, they’re still idiots and we owe them nothing. How else could you remain a Giants fan without being petty and vindictive? It’s not like we’re sleeping on a pile of world series trophies over here.
Here’s a good guide to dealing with an SF resident, which could also be applied to a Giants fan: Stuff White People Like (San Francisco)
Fortunately, there is a fool-proof method for quickly returning the conversation to a positive, trust-building tone. No matter how much you have offended someone from San Francisco, you can always make them feel better by asking them how they feel about Southern California. They will instantly talk of how it is filled with crime, pollution, hegemonic culture, and the wrong kind of white people: "I swear California is like two separate countries, and I am so thankful that I live in the cultural center of the West Coast." This will allow them to reassert their superiority and leave the conversation with a positive feeling about themselves and about you.
Emotional involvement in sports is pointless and irrational. The Giants winning doesn’t actually make the world a better place, it doesn’t cure diseases or save lives. Getting emotionally caught up in sports is similar to getting emotionally caught up in a book or a movie. We know it’s fantasy, but we get caught up in it anyway because it’s fun. The vast majority of sports fans can separate this fantasy from reality. I despise the Dodgers because a good villain makes things more fun and interesting. If I’m at a ballgame, I’ll cheer when Russell Martin strikes out, but if I ran into him on the street, I would still be polite to him.
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the Fresno Grizzlies.
Not a chance
You know, I get how it works, and I can totally “let go” of gleefully watching and hoping the Dodgers “suck it”. When I saw the Dodgers against the Padres, it was like that.
But I sure as hell wasn’t cheering for them, and I never will.
I’m just gonna put this out there – rooting for the Dodgers to win is basically the same thing as digging up Fred Rogers’s corpse and violating in front of his grandchildren.
Now, there might be a situation where that’s what needs to happen. Maybe your necromantic ritual has oddly specific components. Maybe there’s buried treasure in there and your johnson is the only thing that can reach it. Maybe you lost a round of Bros-Violating-Celebrity-Corpses-With-Bros. So you have to grin and bear it and send the kids a nice card later.
Thus, sometimes you have to root for the Dodgers, in the name of the greater good. But you should never feel okay about it. You should never forget that every time the sixteen fans left in the Latrine at the end of the game let out a thin and ragged cheer of victory, somewhere, Mr. Rogers is weeping at what you did to him.
It's Johnnie Walker inside.
by Lies and Perfidy on Aug 10, 2010 4:19 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Thread over.
Lies and Perfidy win (as usual).
"I don’t think I’ve ever heard a louder chorus of boos than when the Dodgers made the third out of the ninth. It was awesome.." - Aubrey Huff
Rec'd
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I would just like the Giants to kick some NL West ass the rest of the way, and fuck the Padres, Dodgers, D-backs and the other fuckstick team whose name doesn't come to mind.
If the Giants can’t beat the division rivals then fuck us/me.
"You can always recover from the player you didn't sign. You may never recover from the player you signed at the wrong price." --Billy Beane
"I am not an idiot."--Brian Sabean
100% percent agree except for the third point. Its not fun. But not im not rooting for them in this series. Only against the Padres or another team ahead of them in the wildcard
Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Aug 10, 2010 6:09 PM PDT reply actions
I have no problem wanting the Fodgers to win specific games, if it’s in the averall best interest of the Giants. Of course, I want them to win in only the most humiliating fashion, where their hitters look thoroughly outclassed and their pitching staff gets devastated. The best thing about it’s a can’t-lose situation for me. If the Fodgers win then I’m happy for logical reasons, but if they lose then I’m happy because I hate the Fodgers.
The other thing that I haven’t seen mentioned on this thread, but is always in my consideration during a given season, is that once the Fodgers are basically out of the playoff chase in any given season then I want them to win just enough games to keep them out of the playoffs, but also keep them from getting a high draft pick. Ideally, I’d love it if the Fodgers had the #21 or 22 draft pick each and every year. That’s the height of sublime torture in my book. Never good enough to make the playoffs, but also never truly bad enough to get a sure-fire savior in the draft.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Sign me up for the "Fuck the Dodgers" side, but..........
I’m even more selfish. I want the Giants to be in a position to where they do not need to rely on their exhausted rivals for any help at all. If we are rooting for the Dodgers to win games so that the Giants advance than most likely we failed somewhere along the line where we should have prevailed. We need to beat the Padres ourselves. Fuck the wild card.
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