Top 10 worst fielding seasons by a Giants' player. Using Total Zone and BB-Ref's Play Index Tool.
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Data table
Rk Player Rfield G Year Age
1 Bobby Murcer -22 147 1975 29
2 Joel Youngblood -21 134 1984 32
3 Harvey Kuenn -21 120 1963 32
4 Dick Dietz -20 148 1970 28
5 Ron Hunt -20 117 1970 29
6 Jim Ray Hart -18 160 1965 23
7 Marvin Benard -17 149 1999 28
8 Bill Madlock -17 140 1977 26
9 Johnnie LeMaster -15 130 1982 28
10 Gary Matthews -15 156 1976 25
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 7/29/2010.
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Cool
So, young players can also be bad defensively. Make a note, Susan.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Marvin Bernard was before I was an intense fan, just a kid staring at the TV
I didnt realize he was that bad
I would like to talk to you about my pokemonz
I was a grown man. It was more horrible than you can imagine.
/breaks in
//breaks back
///chases ball
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 29, 2010 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Before Torres, I can’t remember the last solid defensive CF for the Giants. Grissom was bad and Dave Roberts was injured.
Yet, I’ll always like Benard in a weird way. I saw him hit a walk-off against the Dodgers in San Francisco. It was sweeeet.
Ask me about my blog.
Ah, Shinjo was just a glorified DH.
Which reminds me, Kenny Lofton was quite a butcher, too.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Or Darren Lewis?
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
Billy North?
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Intresting.
Just off the cuff i would say Lewis’s errorless streak with the Giants was more impressive then North’s time with the Giants. But if we are talking over all carer then the topic shifts to North or Butler , in my opinion.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
The first thing that popped to my mind was Darren Lewis as a solid CF – although it looks like he had a couple of down seasons with Giants according to Fangraphs. I remember him going errorless in an insane number of games though.
Also, no Glenallen Hill?
-- Born Yesterday
Eh, sample size for D-Lew, I think. He was good over the course of his career.
by Monkeyking42 on Jul 29, 2010 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Steve Finley
"We didn't win our independence from the British to watch Aaron Rowand hit this bad,"-KNBR caller.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jul 29, 2010 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t talk shit about Grissom if you want to stay plugged in.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 30, 2010 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions
/Throws down work (like I was even doing it anyways)
//Buys wire cutters
///Jumps on bus headed for Virginia
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 30, 2010 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions
He’s a natural inner outfielder
Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 30, 2010 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Any last words!?
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 30, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly I don’t know why but I loved Grissom
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 30, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I was always bothered by his absolute refusal to ever use his second hand while making a catch. And every once in a while, it really did lead to a K-Fred-Clank™.
by Missing Barry on Jul 30, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
my favorite thing about Grissom is that he played as though he were still as fast as his younger days.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
Yeah, Bernard was terrible, terrible, terrible. It was so hard to watch him play CF, but somehow he kept getting put out there. I remember hearing people try to argue that he wasn’t that bad of a fielder. Impossible
I seem to remember seeing Benard break in on a ball, then back, then in again. Or maybe the other way around, but still, two bad reads on the same fly ball. Did he really do that or am I just making it up?
"I don’t think I’ve ever heard a louder chorus of boos than when the Dodgers made the third out of the ninth. It was awesome.." - Aubrey Huff
In retrospect, it seems odd that the Sabean-era Giants would’ve had such a bad defensive center fielder. If I recall, he and Burks flipped at some point, with Ellis going to right. It all just seems so out of character.
I’ve been saying for years, that I find it strange that Sabean always talks about the importance of pitching/D, and yet his teams have consistently had mediocre to terrible defensive players up the middle the diamond. CF is probably the most egregious, but we’ve also had a decade of Kent/Durham at 2B and, outside of Vizquel a somewhat motley crue of SS. On the whole our team defense has always at least seemed pretty good, but we’ve never really had a great up the middle defense in the Sabean era. In fact, with Torres, Sanchez, and Posey it’s probably better right now than it’s ever been.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
True, it’s always been guys like Winn and Cruz in a corner OF spot, Feliz at 3B, Snow at 1B, etc….
by Missing Barry on Jul 30, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s an excellent observation, Roger. Let’s hope things improve for awhile.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Short Little Legs!
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
Hi, love the site, but....
…you have an ’86 Joel Youngblood card to represent his ’84 season. Can you fix that? It really bothers me.
LeMaster had a horrible defensive season?
Double threat guy!
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jul 29, 2010 9:18 PM PDT reply actions
exactly what i thought
talk about a thin talent pool….
LeMaster's batting line from 82
.216/.267/.266
And yet, somehow, he remained the Giants’ starting shortstop for two more years after that!
"I don’t think I’ve ever heard a louder chorus of boos than when the Dodgers made the third out of the ninth. It was awesome.." - Aubrey Huff
this is ugly, let's talk about more pleasant things
Tell me, who was the better right fielder, Jose “But Let’s Not Talk About the NLDS” Cruz 2003 or Randy Winn 2008?
Something that's always confused me
How have statisticians gone back and calculated UZR for older players? Do we have such sophisticated records that we know where balls were hit? Or did they go back and actually watch a bunch of games?
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
They use the play by play data (and it’s TZ, not UZR)…
by Missing Barry on Jul 30, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
What’s amazing is Matthews and Murcer comprised 2/3 of our OF for a couple years — talk about your thundering buffaloes. Actually, Murcer’s problem was that he was pouting the whole time he was here about being traded by the Yankees. He had decent enough batting lines while he was here, but he couldn’t be bothered chasing after fly balls and whatnot.
Back in the 80s somewhere my Dad picked up an oral history of the Giants, and I remember Murcer’s entire contribution was: “I was a never a Giant.”
Interestingly he was traded for Madlock who was a butcher in his own right, although I’m assuming that was mostly from his trials at 3B. He was a Jeff Kent-ish sort of 2B as I recall. Youngblood’s Dr. Strangeglove season was also predominantly at 3B, though none of those compared to the great Dave Kingman at 3B experiment. If that had been given an entire season we’ve had needed a bigger chart.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Great info, Roger. I also thought it was funny that the 1970 team had the Hunt/Dietz duo. You’re right on Madlock, his 1977 season he was primarily a 3B.
Ask me about my blog.
I believe that a teenaged Brian Sabean contacted the Giants front office and argued strenuously for a trade to acquire 3B BIll Madlock. His chief selling point: “He’s a former batting champ!!”
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
At the time I was not that angry about either Madlock trade. The guy played well before coming here and when he left. I would be interesting to see what his BAIP numbers were. ( Heck back then I had no idea what those were let alone why I should care). I was always just figure Madlock was a case of just bad timing with possibly a side of really not wanting to be here. B-R says his BAIP was .304 in 1977, 311 in 1978 and lists a .287 in first half 1979 )when he has a split season here) in his age 26 -28 seasons. So I would think the numbers actually side with memory this time. Whitson & Holland was pretty good return for him though.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
I was shocked not to see King Kong on the list. I also remeber Willie Montanez being very Clanktastic at first base. Just goes to show why numbers are a great thing to be used so as to keep the memory in check.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
Kingman is interesting.
Year Age Tm PA Rfield WAR Pos
1971 22 SFG 128 0 1.1 3/79
1972 23 SFG 531 -4 1.8 537
1973 24 SFG 351 5 1.3 53/1
1974 25 SFG 393 -2 0.4 35/97
1975 26 NYM 543 -5 1.4 735/9
1976 27 NYM 510 -2 2.9 *93/7
1977 28 NYM 228 -1 -0.6 793
1977 28 SDP 187 -1 0.3 73/59
1977 28 CAL 39 0 -0.1 /37
1977 28 NYY 27 0 0.3 /D
1978 29 CHC 448 -4 2.6 7/3
1979 30 CHC 589 -9 3.8 *7
1980 31 CHC 280 -3 0.8 7/3
1981 32 NYM 412 -9 0.3 37
1982 33 NYM 607 -16 -0.2 *3
1983 34 NYM 273 -6 -0.6 3/9
1984 35 OAK 613 0 2.9 *D/3
1985 36 OAK 666 0 1.0 *D/3
1986 37 OAK 604 -2 -1.4 *D/3
16 Seasons 7429 -59 18.0
PA Rfield WAR Pos
NYM (6 yrs) 2573 -39 3.2
SFG (4 yrs) 1403 -1 4.6
OAK (3 yrs) 1883 -2 2.5
CHC (3 yrs) 1317 -16 7.2
SDP (1 yr) 187 -1 0.3
CAL (1 yr) 39 0 -0.1
NYY (1 yr) 27 0 0.3
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 7/30/2010.
He was never a great fielder, but during his time with the Giants he ranged from -4 to +5 runs. His 1982 season with the Mets (-16 runs, 18 errors) was pretty bad. And that was while playing 1B.
Ask me about my blog.
I’d say we probably had him at the most athletic point in his life. He calcified into a living monument pretty quickly.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I still would have liked to know what would have happened with a Bonds/Maddox/Matthews outfield for a few years.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 31, 2010 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Spier as SS intead of LeMaster. Hang on to Gaylord to anchor/soak of the staff the came up in the mid 70’s. Coulda, woudla, shoulda.
Have I ever mentioned how much I hate the Spec Richardson era? Or how much nicer it is now the team has a new yard, a nice steady revenue stream and is not trapped in the hell the A’s are in or the DBacks are currently facing?
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
I’d be cool with that as well….
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Jul 30, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I like how Murcer's card has him mostly covered up by another player.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
also i just want to say
steve finley sucked
career -30.8 runs in CF by UZR
and career -17 runs in CF by total zone
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
i just hate steve finley ok
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
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