Pre-game comment starter
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 29, 2010 10:01 AM PDT
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The most likely player to move in that group is Dunn. The Yanks have mild interest, but it appeared the White Sox and Giants were pushing harder.
So fill in the blank for the comment starter: I would give up _____ for Adam Dunn.
I'll start. I would give up Thomas Neal, even though he is most likely real. I would probably give up Zack Wheeler. If the Nationals want more than that -- a Jonathan Sanchez or Brandon Belt -- forget it. As much as I'd hate to give up Neal/Wheeler, this is the only year that I trust Andres Torres and Aubrey Huff to be top-20 hitters in the NL. This is the only year that I trust the Giants to find five starting pitchers who are better than the league average. I'd throw in any non-Belt not on the 25-man roster, too.
I'm a little scared that Dunn's clankmittery eliminates all of the gains he brings with the bat, but, uh, well, down the hatch.
Also note that when you fill in the blank, you have to put something that the Nationals would want. "Eugenio Velez" or "my virginity" don't count.
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good morning
I would give up tree fiddy
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
Mike Rizzo says
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
by RDreamer on Jul 29, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Nice.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 29, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow, how many people here have actually seen that movie?
I loved it as a kid. Of course, that might have had to do with the prodigous amounts of T&A. And Arsenio Hall.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
yuppers
opening arsenio scene has always been one of my favorites
“Man there ain’t no Thelma here!”
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
weren’t the homeless movie reviewers in this one…“gave it thuh finguh”
...Dr. Vader will see you now.
I think that might be a different flick
The only movie review in the movie is a review of a guy’s life, before he’s died, done in the past tense, which causes him to have a heart attack when he stumbles upon it on TV.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Yeah, I grew up on it. It has its moments.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 29, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Good ol' H-two-Oh
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
I would give up any two of the following three:
Wheeler/Neal/Joseph
Dunn puts this offense into league-average-at-worst territory, which is fantastic.
Plus we’ll get type-A draft picks when he walks.
My hierarchy for acquisitions remains:
Willingham
Werth
Fielder
Dunn
But they’re all pretty close. I would love Dunn.
My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.
Werth isn’t available anymore.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think Fielder is either. And I'd be shocked if Willingham was
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Jul 29, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
This is the line for me.
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis who is stuck in the baseball purgatory called extended spring training.
other than my left nut
i’ll give up wheeler/neal/ford/noonan
Brian Sabean just called
He needs your left nut to complete the deal….do you have a sharp knife?
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t want Uggla, either. You know why? Because he’ll give us almost exactly what Dunn will, and in neither case does it upgrade our team in any meaningful way. Most likely it adds 0 wins to our W column at the end of the year.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Right now, we have 37% of the season left. That means, to think we can even add 1 win to our W column for this season, we need to add 1.35 WAR to our team (1.35 * .37 = .5). And that’s just to get to the breakeven point where we have a 50% chance of adding a win (basically, at .5 we assume we’ll get 1 since wins are whole numbers). I don’t see a case where adding Dunn or Uggla adds 1.35 a player who’s 1.35 WAR (over a full season) better than what we have right now, once you take into account how it shifts other players around defensively, and who’s being replaced.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Rocky Mountain Oyesters!!!!!!!!!!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I would hate to give up either Wheeler or Neal for Dunn. I’m not sure who I would trade for him.
Trying to keep it realistic: Nick Noonan + Roger K + Brandon Crawford
I doubt that would get it done.
Ask me about my blog.
Yeah
No way I’d give up either Neal or Wheeler. Dunn just isn’t that good.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Bad News
Neither are Neal or Wheeler.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
well
the jury hasn’t even begun deliberating on Wheeler yet
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
I know
But I am a big believer that pitching prospects are almost always overrated.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess you are.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
Indeed I am.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Good to have that settled.
He is the World's Most Annoying Rooster.
by gallo del cielo on Jul 29, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t say that. But they are definetly more prone to injuries.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Lincecum and Cain worked out okay
oh yeah…Sanchez and Bumgarner…
Other than that…the Giants have developed much pitching from the minor leagues
And I’m a big believer that judging Dunn solely based on his offense is overrated….
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
BUT STARSBURG HAS A LOW ERA!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Which is hilarious. If any team has proven the value of pitching prospects, it’s this one. 4/5th’s of our rotation is massively underpaid and good to great.
FIRST!
I'm already a Giants fan
So is a curse really necessary? Seems redundant.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
This is true
But you’re forgetting: Jerome Williams, Kurt Ainsworth, Jesse Foppert, Brad Hennessey and others who were all can’t miss pitching prospects, who missed. TINSTAAPP
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Traded away...
Despite the hatred for Sabean…cannot argue with his ability to gauge pitching prospect (well except for Nathan)
Hennessey wasn't
Jerome Williams and Jessee Foppert also both got long looks in the majors before being dealt.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Jessee Foppert – Career FIP 5.13
Jerome Williams -Career FIP 4.70
Brad Hennessey – Career FIP 5.86
Also, by your logic if Sabean trades Wheeler does that mean that he knows what he’s doing and Wheeler won’t go on to great things?
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know anything about wheeler but I trust Sabean to judge pitching
I just don’t like Dunn that much
Thanks
How could I forget about Boof?
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Hennessey was made a pretty solid contribution,especially as a reliever
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
He was also a former 1st round pick, which leads me back to…….wait for it……TINSTAAPP
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Hennessy was probably the worst 1st round pitcher we’ve picked in the last decade, and we still wrung some value out of him.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
Which is the specific market inefficiency on which Brian Sabean has built his career
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Jul 29, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not arguing that
Sabean’s been very good in that area, it’s the one thing he’s been very good at, now who he’s traded them for is another matter. So if he trades Wheeler would everyone just accept that he knows what he’s doing.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
What I’m not clear on is just what Wheeler’s trade value is right now. If he had 100+ innings in high A where he was just lights out, then I think he’d be a lot more valuable than he is right now.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Jul 29, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Glad you weren't making decisions
when Cain, Lincecum. Sanchez and Bum came through the system. Pitchers are harder to evaluate, I grant you that. But good arms are worth their weight in gold.
I don’t include Wheeler/Belt in a deal for any of the names on the available list.
So my two are any prospects NOT named Wheeler or Belt. Or from the 25 man roster, Schierholtz, Burrell, Ishi or any reliever they want besides Romo, Affeldt, Ray or Wilson. (Not that they are going to want a relivever).
I wouldn't have traded Cain or Lincecum either
But I’ll admit I would have dealt Sanchez by now, of course I wouldn’t have traded someone who had shown promise at the major league level for a douche-bag catcher either.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure Dunn is even much of an upgrade over what we have, when you consider his defense. Seems stupid to give up 12 potential years of cheap service time for that.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
he thinks that Wheeler is overrated, and therefore worthless.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
Which is hilarious. If any team has proven the value of pitching prospects, it’s this one. 4/5th’s of our rotation is massively underpaid and good to great.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
when was the last pitcher taken by the Giants in the first round to not make an impact at the major league level? Ainsworth?
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
If we count injuries, yeah probably. Nate Bump in 1998 didn’t really do anything.
Ask me about my blog.
Which is hilarious. If any team has proven the value of pitching prospects, it’s this one. 4/5th’s of our rotation is massively underpaid and good to great.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Preach it brother!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Which is hilarious. If any team has proven the value of pitching prospects, it’s this one. 4/5th’s of our rotation is massively underpaid and good to great.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Zito? Like, obviously?
Or am I completely missing your point?
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
If he never sets foot in the outfield he’s a big upgrade. UZR thinks his defense has been average at 1B this year and while I don’t expect that to continue I don’t think he’ll ever be nearly worthless at 1B the way he was in RF the past couple years.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jul 29, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Don’t ever use 1 year (or less than one year!!!) of UZR. Never. Just don’t do it.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
What?!?!
Just when I thought Huff had a chance at a Gold Glove
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
since when
does a player’s defensive ability have anything to do with who gets the gold glove?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Sarcasm is Sarcastic...
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 30, 2010 5:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Except for Nate Schierholtz, eh?
/friendly elbow.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
He's the anti-Ishikawa
Considering how amazingly good our defense has been this year, I don’t see that as a particularly bad thing. For every run Dunn gives up with his CLANK, he will drive in 5 with his bat.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
For every run Dunn gives up with his CLANK, he will drive in 5 with his bat.
Adamn Dunn – career -16.4 UZR/150.
Adam Dunn – highest offensive runs above average in his career for a single season – 40.4.
+5 runs for every -1? Really? I don’t think this is a good line of thought in general, nor do I think it holds true, but the important thing is – how many total runs will he provide?
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
sure but for a lot of that he played RF
where he was spectacularly terrible. Now he’s a 1B and his defense won’t hurt as much.
He will provide many runz.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
"Dunn just isn't that good"
This is a spectacularly hilarious statement.
Yes, the guy with the 900 career OPS, who averages 40 HR a year, who doesn’t miss games.
Not that good.
Please give me that kind of not good.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
"Quiet you, I'm starting a meme." - Me
"You can shake a dozen glove men out of a tree, but the bat separates the men from the boys." - Washington Senators First baseman Dale Long
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
Not as much at 1B
My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.
And yet, Dunn is STILL awful at 1B. Plus, it’s not just Dunn at 1B that’s the issue. It also means Huff in OF.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Huff hasn’t really been a liability out there.
by Rook Takes Pawn on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I would call him a liability. Dude has no range. He’s just lucky to have Burrell to compare him to. Even if you don’t want to say “liability”, he’s been “not good”.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Missing Barry - Huff Defense
Give me some examples of balls you feel he didn’t get to because of his limited range. Better yet, give me ONE example of a game this year in which Huff’s outfield defense has hurt the Giants. One.
He ain’t twikeltoes out there. But he’s been just fine. I think much of your criticism is based on the conventional wisdom before the season that he is a defensive liability. He had not been.
NAME ONE PLAY OUT OF THOUSANDS THAT PROVE YOU RIGHT JUST ONE!
How about you show us one play that he has helped the Giants out on that Nate (teams best defensive OF) wouldn’t have done? JUST ONE!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
the "one play" thing was stupid
but TBH, I’m not sure I’d want Huff back at 1B right now just to get Nate out there.
Huff OF D + Huff bat + Ish Bat + Ish 1B D > Huff 1B D + Huff bat + Nate OF D + Nate Bat, Imo at least
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
putting Nate in
while eminently reasonable will not happen unless Rowand gets injured.
He’s a part timer on the current roster. At least Bochy would actually PLAY Dunn
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
I'm not the one that blasted Huff's defense
And had I done so, I would have had some examples to support my argument.
As for Nate, I don’t think my comment had anything to do with him. I don’t think I suggested Huff was anything close to Nate in the OF. He’s not. I dont’ think I said Huff was a GOOD outfielder – he’s not. I think I just said he’s not a poor outfielder (ie a liability).
I’ve been a big Nate supporter for some time. Unfortunately, he hasn’t hit enough to play more. I blame Bochy in part for his usual – young players that slump automatically sit – approach. Still – Nate has not looked good at the plate most of this season. .
And had I done so, I would have had some examples to support my argument.
Anecdotes aren’t evidence, which is why I’m not even going to go down that road. There’s plenty of real evidence, though – things like the fans scouting report AND statistical measures of defense that do indicate he’s a poor fielder. Then watching it, I can see why – Huff is freaking slow. So yes, I do think I’ve supported the view that he’s not a good outfielder.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I just went back through every single fan scouting report. Since 2002, he’s played a variety of positions, and every single year, without fail, the fans scouting report has thought poorly of him, ranking him around 3 to last on his team. Different teams, different positions, same result each time – the “eyes” think Aubrey Huff isn’t a good fielder. The stats think Aubrey Huff isn’t a good fielder. Aubrey Huff is slow, and range is the most important thing, especially in the OF.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
He has lost a lot of weight, though; he may be significantly better than in the past. At first base he has looked all right to me — not Ishikawan, but not Bowkeriffic either.
I mean….how confident are we that he improved his athleticism? He’s significantly older, and I personally don’t have much idea of how big he was last year, much less in his younger years. I fully believe if he lost weight (and thus increased his athleticism), that yeah, it should make him at least better…..but the question is, how confident are you in that?
I also think he’s not terrible at 1B – not good, but he’s fine (and better than in the OF), and with the way he’s hitting, I like him at 1B, which is one of the big reasons I’m so against a trade for a marginal upgrade that also pushes him to the OF.
Overall, I’m actually content going forward with:
C – Posey
1B – Huff
2B, SS, 3B – Rotating Sanchez, Renteria, Uribe, Sandoval depending on matchups and to give guys rest and keep them fresh, with maybe Sandoval playing a game here and there at 1B
OF – Torres
With Schierholtz, Rowand and Burrell splitting some time and playing matchups (by matchups I almost completely mean L/R), and also mixing Ishikawa in there with Huff playing some OF (but never Huff/Burrell in the corners at the same time).
I really don’t see a problem with that rotation. It’s enough. The current options being discussed won’t give us a team that’s better in a meaningful way, especially since we’re getting close to a third of the season left.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Looks good to me. Only thing I’d change would be to keep Uribe in the middle infield (run Rohlinger out there when Pablo needs a day off), and I’d love to bring up Bowker and get him a start a week or something like that.
Not bad thoughts, I wouldn’t be opposed to it, though I don’t necessarily see the reason to keep Uribe in the middle infield – I think he’s capable of playing a decent 3B (even if he might be a better fit at 2B/SS) and Renteria/Sanchez are doing enough to warrant PT so I’m ok with all 3 of them playing at times. I don’t think it’d make much difference one way or another between him or Downs, so either one seems fine to me.
As for Bowker……trust me, i’d love to bring him up, too, but I’ve just written that possibility off. I don’t think there’s a reason to bring him up if we aren’t gonna give him regular PT, though – inconsistent PT will hurt his offense, he doesn’t have very good bench skills (like defense/baserunning), and any poor performance in limited sample size/inconsistent PT will just reinforce management’s hatred of him, especially given how important winning is right now……
But yeah, if I was making all the moves, I’d probably be platooning Bowker/Burrell, with Torres in CF every day, and possibly platooning Rowand/Nate (which is the most PT Rowand would get, any other possibility like Huff in the OF and Ishikawa at 1B, or Nate or Bowker every day would sit him on the bench).
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Renteria, Uribe, and Sanchez are all solid enough, but none of them is good, so I’d try to avoid having more than two of them in the lineup at the same time. Not that Rohlinger’s any better, but the bench guys need occasional at-bats too.
Bowker’s obviously never going to be a starter in SF, but I don’t think they’d hate him as a pinch-hitter. A bench of Whiteside, Rohlinger, Ishikawa, Bowker, and whoever’s not starting from among Burrell/Rowand/Schierholtz seems okay.
but the bench guys need occasional at-bats too.
True, I can get behind this. If Downs or Rohlinger is on the bench (not sure why I read Downs when you said Rohilnger the first time), gotta get them some PT sometime, so yeah, that makes sense.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Since Posey was called up, Huff has only started 7 games at first anyway.
"I don’t think I’ve ever heard a louder chorus of boos than when the Dodgers made the third out of the ninth. It was awesome.." - Aubrey Huff
by EliminateMe on Jul 29, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
gooooo Mariners!
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
You realize the Padres have the highest UZR in baseball, right…?
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
you need a rope? You fell in pretty far
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
It didn’t seem like sarcasm to me.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
I think the sarcasm was that the Mariners were all about defense
And fell flat on their face. But of course, that’s because they’re pretty much all having career worst years at the plate.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
thank you
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
So, your statement, “goooo Mariners!” translates to “Haha! The Mariners made their team all about defense, and look how poorly that turned out!” Right?
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Translation below
Defense counts…yes. But you can’t win games based on defense alone. The Mariners took a valuation idea and based their entire team on it to the detriment of their offense.
I liked the idea and was hoping the experiment worked. The new OBP if you will.
Unfortunately the team has imploded spectacularly and can’t even rely on their amazing defense (currentlyranked 10th in UZR).
My comment was meant to direct criticism towards them in light of the “Defense…it actually counts” statement
How do you define sarcasm and irony?
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
Right. And Missing Barry was criticizing your comment by pointing out that most of the teams with the highest UZRs are the best in all of baseball.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
define sarcasm
we need a common starting point to continue this
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
Yeah now I’m just confused, because he brought up one example, and I brought up another where a team came out of nowhere to be way better than everyone thought, and hey, they happen to be posting the best defensive numbers in baseball, so it directly contradicts the Mariners = failed experiment line of thought….so…..now I’m just confused.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
My example wasn't serious
It was a joke at the Mariner’s expense.
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
stupid brain auto pilot
it was a joke at the expense of the Mariners (the team) not a guy named Mariner.
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
FWIW
I got it. It was a, “BOOM! ROASTED,” sort of comment. Partly true, but mostly joking.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Defense the new OBP!
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Yep, as does baserunning. Plus, Dunn is a substantially worse hitter now than he used to be. His performance this year is inflated by a flukey BABIP.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Is it flukey or the result of a changed approach?
by Monkeyking42 on Jul 29, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
What do you think is more likely: He decided to walk less, strike out more, hit less line drives, and increase his ability on BIP? Or that he’s just having some luck?
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
His batted ball profile is the same as ever, his strikeouts are the same as ever. BABIP IS flukey, and the sample size is small enough that this isn’t some surprising result…..sure, it could be a changed approach, but I won’t assume it is without any evidence suggesting it is. Without evidence, we’re best off assuming he’s just been lucky.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I mention it because I’d read some article in spring training that he was eager to get his batting average higher this year. I could see that having a negative effect on his walk rate.
I’ve got lots of hearsay and conjecture… those are KINDS of evidence!
by Monkeyking42 on Jul 29, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe look to see if he’s swinging earlier in the count? That could suggest he’s not letting hittable pitches go by to try to take a walk, though his unchanged strikeout rate makes me unsure you’d find anything worthwhile.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
BUT STARSBURG HAS A LOW ERA!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure I would give up anything above a C level prospect for Dunn, personally. Someone care to actually make a case he’s worth anything significant to this team?
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Draft pick compensation...
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
Besides...
a .400 OBP and 40 dingerz a year you could set your watch by. The Giants don’t need that though, they can just plug Aaron Rowand in instead.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Defense is part of the game, you realize this, right?
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I do
But the Giants pitchers all have relatively high K rates, so defense isn’t the same concern for them that it is other teams, that being said it would still hurt defensively, but they need offense and Torres can cover a lot of faults in the outfield. His range is extremely impressive.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I still get furious when Torres is playing corner outfield.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Impossible hypothetical, but I wonder if Torres makes an amazing catch on Uggla’s double in the ninth yesterday.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jul 29, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
me three. surely rowand can buck-up and play a corner once in a while. torres in center is the only correct answer.
...Dr. Vader will see you now.
He hasn't, ever, at all. Rowand plays center. Period
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Jul 29, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, I forgot about Rowand’s superior CF-play-calling experience. Maybe one day Torres will catch on and learn how to properly handle the position.
...Dr. Vader will see you now.
Chasm
I suspect.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
indeed
additionally, i likened rowand to molina, and torres to posey, if you saw what i did there…
...Dr. Vader will see you now.
Thanks for breaking that intricate code...
a charter member of the Rich Aurilia Retirement Fan Club
i'm not saying he couldn't play left. I'm saying that for some reason, he doesn't.
I don’t know if it’s a thing where he’s told Bochy he won’t play left or right, or whether it’s Bochy never asking him too. But it’s nuts. When Schierholtz comes in for defense, they move Torres to left, and there’s Rowand in center. No way that’s our best outfield alignment.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Jul 29, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Torres has experience moving around and is good at it – he can play any field well. I suspect the Giants feel Rowand would not be so adept at moving around. He’s an acceptable defender in center – I think they are willing to just let him stay there.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with this, but I’m willing to bet that Rowand’s pride would be the thing that suffers from him moving around.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
But considering Torres’ speed, and the fact that the center fielder should take everything he can get to, Rowand should just shade the line a bit and let Torres do the heavy lifting. It’d easily make up for Rowand’s discomfort in the corners. Shit, Andres’d probably enjoy the hell out of it.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
So keep Rowand in right. His range isn’t all that great but he strikes me as someone who could play the wall fairly well (he’s old, not dumb).
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I agree. Rowand would be a better RF than most, and Torres is a better CF than all. It’s really kind of a no-brainer.
I was promised lasagna.
I’ve been wanting the Giants to move Rowand while Torres is on D for awhile now. Sticking him in RF makes a bunch of sense when Torres is on the field.
Ask me about my blog.
The real question isn't
If Torres is better than Rowand in CF. It really is if
Torres CF, Rowand RF vs. Rowand CF, Torres RF.
Remember Torres is a really good CF, but an exceptional RF.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2011 Opening Day starting SS!
I’d counter that Torres is better in RF because it’s simply a smaller area. I kinda feel like that’s saying Rickey Henderson was a really good base-stealer in the Majors, but he’d be exceptional in a softball league with 60 foot basepaths.
Basically, Torres is good enough that I don’t think his range should be limited by the LF and RF walls.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
And CF’s have the largest range to cover, which means they can put their range to the best use….
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
I think ATT is atypical in that regard… the right fielder has vast expanses to cover in home games.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
And I can’t imagine he’s earned the kind of clout to veto a move. That’s for people named Bonds.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I was in 327 last night… There was a routine fly ball to straightaway center; Rowand didn’t have to move. Torres ran over to back the play up from straightaway right, and was probably 20 feet away from Rowand when he caught it. If the ball was hit higher, Torres probably could’ve Griffeyed it from Rowand if he wanted to.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Torres is fast as a motherfucker. Seriously.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I said the same.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Torres is an excellent defender. He can cover some faults. I wouldn’t say he can cover “a lot”. You’d be surprised by just how many outs bad defenders don’t make, regardless of the CF next to them.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
For as piss-poor as his defense is…. He’s usually still amongst the top players in WAR and wOBA. And we need the offense.
by SixFourThree on Jul 29, 2010 10:28 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
No, and yes
Yes, he is among the leaders in wOBA, no he’s not a leader in WAR.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
WAR
Yeah, I popped that one off without looking at fangraphs. My bad.
by SixFourThree on Jul 29, 2010 10:42 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
However(!)
It looks like he’s made quite the jump in WAR with his extended play at 1B this season. Getting him out of the OF seems to have helped his value, and BIG time.
He’s certainly sub-par defensively, but it is much less so with his being stuck at 1B.
by SixFourThree on Jul 29, 2010 10:47 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
His peripherals don’t support his wOBA. He isn’t the same hitter he used to be. BABIP people.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
you're basing this
off of a less than one season sample, throwing away his previous 9 years in the process. Your analysis is dubious at best.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I’m basing it off this thing called “sampling”. It’s what you do with statistics. I’m not going to say 11% is his exact true talent level, but I AM going to say that we have a combination of large enough sample size/decrease in rate to say he’s worse than he was before, and likely by a substantial amount.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
but if you look at historical data
that’s likely not the case.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
That’s exactly why you regress towards league average when you don’t have enough historical data, and a players career average (possibly using an aging curve, but that’s probably too much work for a very small added amount of accuracy in this case) when you do. How much you regress is based on how variable your metric is and how large your sample is. In this case, it’s not that variable of a metric, and relatively speaking, our sample is fairly large….so yeah.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I have to say, I love how Dunn is not the “favored” pick amongst the group. He’s the only dude (amongst discussed options) who’s done it year after year. I think the guy would make us serious WS contender. And he might be the easiest to extend of all these dudes.
by SixFourThree on Jul 29, 2010 10:26 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
He’s the only dude (amongst discussed options) who’s done it year after year
Are we talking about good hitting, or bad defense here? Because yes, he’s done both year after year. Problem is, he’s a worse hitter than he used to be, and still terrible defensively.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m not seeing how his hitting is “worse” this season?
by SixFourThree on Jul 29, 2010 10:36 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Because the things Adam Dunn does to be a good hitter – walk and hit home runs (literally, the only two areas he provides value), he’s doing substantially worse. He’s making up for it with BABIP luck.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
No longer hitting at Great America(n Ballpark)
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
That might explain HR's
But the walk thing is perplexing.
"The two worst things in football are: 1) They think that a 30-year old professional athlete has to be locked up in a hotel room, with a curfew, the night before a qame; and 2) They're right."
- Cowboy safety Cliff Harris
Hate to break it to you, but a .251 hitter with an 11% BB-rate isn’t going to crack .400 OBP. Dunn isn’t the same hitter he used to be.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not seeing this
How is he not the same hitter?
"Bengie Molina - the quintessential double play possibility." - Jon MIller
by calpolynate on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
so his BB% is down this year
that’s about it.
"Bengie Molina - the quintessential double play possibility." - Jon MIller
by calpolynate on Jul 29, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not ready to claim he's a different/worse hitter yet
But that drop would take a serious chunk out of his value.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I think statistically speaking, the evidence does suggest he’s worse at taking walks. Sample size = big enough.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Not exactly
It certainly stabilizes quicker, but it’s not like it’s gospel that once someone has reached X PA’s you can declare a new talent level. Those significance numbers you linked somewhere in this thread are the point where you can regress their numbers 50%, I believe.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I disagree with that. When you’re regressing 50%, you essentially ARE declaring a new talent level. Since we’re at about double the 50% number of PA’s, we regress it less, maybe 30% or something?
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
HR’s, too, though the HR thing seems to me like he’ll revert back much closer to his career rate than he will with the walks. But then again, AT&T will rob him of HR’s, too.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Wait, so his walk rate will cause a drop in his BA? Also, LOL @ BB% that’s quite a bit lower than his career average. For ONE-HALF season
by SixFourThree on Jul 29, 2010 10:39 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Wait, so his walk rate will cause a drop in his BA?
No, that’s not the right interpretation. His BABIP, when it reverts back to its normal level (which is what we should expect going forward), will cause his BA to drop. The walks are a seperate issue. And yes, half a season of walks, especially with a drop that big, IS enough to draw conclusions from. It’s not SSS.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I tell you what. We’ll meet here at the same place next year, and see if his BB% hasn’t risen closer to career norms. I’d bet he’s much closer.
by SixFourThree on Jul 29, 2010 11:17 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
see if his BB% hasn’t risen closer to career norms. I’d bet he’s much closer.
I’m in full agreement that it will rise close than it is now to his career norms. I would never deny that. The disagreement is apparently over “how much” closer. Seems to me we’re at the point where we should only regress 30% or so, so I’m thinking something along the lines of 13% (I’m using ~17% as his “career norm”, since his last two years were higher than his career average)?
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
So we’re allowed to throw away good stats to help prove the point? If you’re going to start removing selected portions of a given argument, you’re not really helping your case.
Also, please mind that my intention is not to completely disagree with you, rather disagree on certain points. I think his AVG will drop, but I also think using BABIP for a HighK/HighHR guy can be a little wonky…. (that being said, he is certainly way above average this year)
by SixFourThree on Jul 29, 2010 11:47 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Huh? What am I throwing away? I’m really confused by this statement.
I also think using BABIP for a HighK/HighHR guy can be a little wonky
Why, and in what way? I don’t understand the argument you’re trying to make.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I think the idea
is that BABIP samples need to be pretty big to stabilize, and high k/hr guys have the smallest samples for it.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Makes sense. Under that reasoning, that means we should think his BABIP is even more flukey, though, and thus we should believe his “true talent” is even closer to his career level than his current level….
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
yes
and walk rates that drop sharply in one season after being stable for a player’s career also ALWAYS stay low.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
oh, wait, i'm sorry
it’s the opposite of that
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
look at past performances
the vast majority of veterans who have one aspect of their game completely fall off a cliff one season magically re-acquire it later. As much as fans panic, players VERY rarely just completely fall off cliffs.
Also, patience is a skill that tends to improve with age, so I have a lot of trouble believing that Dunn’s lower walk rate (which is still damn good) is an actual sudden drop in skill.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
contract year
must hit dingerz
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
imagine if he didn’t swing at those pitches!
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
true
but you very rarely see this kind of sudden drop in patience, I’d still need more than 2/3 of a seasons worth of data to say that something has definitely changed.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Something HAS changed. The sample size is large enough to conclude that. I can’t say how much, exactly, and yes, we should regress to some degree towards his career numbers, but we can still conclude he’s worse.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
more HITS means he's better
you need your 3-4-5 guys to hack
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
I would have just failed him on the logic check
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
More hits is better. The problem is, we shouldn’t expect him to continue getting more hits in the future.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
As much as fans panic, players VERY rarely just completely fall off cliffs.
You’ve been owlcrofted! I remain baffled by this argument, since I’m sure everyone here can think of half a dozen players who did fall off the cliff in less time than it takes to write their names down.
I don’t see any reason to think Dunn is one of them, though, and you’re right about walk rate peaking late. I wonder whether that’s still true for players who started out with very high walk rates.
and then they often have a "dead cat bounce"
falling off a cliff for one season doesn’t count. The fact of the matter is, owlcroft is right about this.
“When a young man misplaces his hat, he is said to have lost his hat. When an old man misplaces his hat, he is said to have lost his mind”
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Late 80s Giants only!
Matt Williams
Kevin Mitchell
Bob Brenly
Robbie Thompson
Jeff Leonard
Candy Maldonado
Ernie Riles
Eddie Milner
Dan Driessen
Now I’ll go check.
ha
I looked at Mitchell and thought “damn that guy fell HARD” then realized it was like 200 PA.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Williams, check; he bounced back a bit but was never close to as good as before, and he never played a full season again.
Mitchell, check.
Brenly, check.
Thompson, check.
Leonard, I was wrong, he was up and down a lot.
Maldonado had a bounce-back year in 227 PAs in 1995; if you want to count that, okay.
Riles, pretty much, though the samples are small so it’s a little hard to tell.
Milner, ditto.
Driessen, same; he never really got to play again after his plummet year.
It’s just not that uncommon.
the thing is
I checked Mitchell and Brenly, and their “OMG FELL OFF A CLIFF” performances both encompassed less than 1 full season’s worth of PA. Then they were out of baseball.
I’m not going to claim that they prove my point, but they really don’t prove yours either.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Thompson's probably your best case
but even so, looking at him and seeing 550 PAs of 140 wRC+ followed by 150 PAs the next season SCREAMS “injured” to me. If Dunn is injured, that changes everything, but AFAIK he’s not.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Not exactly injury, but Robby got beaned a couple of times and was never the same.
Usually it’s injuries, sure. But sometimes it’s just the accumulation of little things that make it difficult to play at such a high level. And sometimes a decline in play is the first sign of an injury waiting to blossom.
the vast majority of veterans who have one aspect of their game completely fall off a cliff one season magically re-acquire it later
Um, actually, no. The statistics behind the numbers I linked you to directly contradict that. They’re based on things like year to year correlations.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Buster Posey’s walk rate is down! He isn’t the same hitter he used to be!
by Rook Takes Pawn on Jul 29, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I’ll start. I would give up Thomas Neal, even though he is most likely real. I would probably give up Zack Wheeler. If the Nationals want more than that — a Jonathan Sanchez or Brandon Belt — forget it. As much as I’d hate to give up Neal/Wheeler, this is the only year that I trust Andres Torres and Aubrey Huff to be top-20 hitters in the NL. This is the only year that I trust the Giants to find five starting pitchers who are better than the league average. I’d throw in any non-Belt not on the 25-man roster, too.
I’m with you Grant. The Giants must strike while the proverbial iron is hot. While I would like someone like Willingham or Fielder more, I would be fine with Dunn if he played solely at 1st base.
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
i agree. But
I just can’t see it happening. Adam Dunn is a terrific hitter, a good player. There’s competition for his services. I just don’t see the Nats giving him up for Thomas Neal, who really hasn’t torn up AA, and Zack Wheeler, with his, what, 10 professional innings? I don’t make that deal, if it’s them. They’ll hold out for Sanchez plus, and I imagine they’re fine saying no.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Jul 29, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I would give up Neal + or Wheeler +. I would not give up Neal + Wheeler. Belt is untouchable unless Braun or Longoria is the return, and those kind of trades just don’t happen.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
those 2 picks in 2011 sounds really, really good to me, I might add. That’s a huge part of the consideration for Neal / Wheeler +.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Also, I’d rather get on the Luke Scott bandwagon. He’s been a fine defender in LF and he might be able to hang in RF — if Huff can do it, why can’t Scott — he’s also undervalued to an extent and we would control him much longer.
Ask me about my blog.
AND! I think getting an OF is preferable because it pushes Huff back to 1B. Huff is such an important part of our offense and sometimes he looks zapped when he’s running around in the OF. Moving him to 1B would get him fresh and improve the outfield defense.
Ask me about my blog.
I like Scott
The only thing that makes me nervous: he has three first names. Luke Brandon Scott.
"Bengie Molina - the quintessential double play possibility." - Jon MIller
by calpolynate on Jul 29, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I very much like the idea of keeping Huff at 1B. I don’t really like the “if Huff can do it [RF]” line fo thought, because he doesn’t do “it” very well…
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, that’s not my only reasoning. His UZR and DRS numbers look pretty good in the OF.
LF: ~1,700 career innings, +7.7 UZR, +12 DRS
RF: ~900 career innings, +3.1 UZR, +0 DRS
Though, the 2009 FSR don’t seem to like him as much
http://www.tangotiger.net/scout/index6.php?prim_fld_cd=7
Ask me about my blog.
Scott’s numbers out of Camden Yards are horrible.
Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees.
by rxmeister on Jul 29, 2010 10:41 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
but that would make things confusing in the GDT if Rowand is also in the lineup
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
Adding a Luke to this team
Will lead to Star Wars type name play. I approve!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 29, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
many bothans?
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
Also lots of “Great Scott!” accompanied by Rocky Horror photos. Also approve.
by Monkeyking42 on Jul 29, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
YOU CAN WASTE TIME WITH YOUR FRIENDS WHEN YOU GET THAT RUN HOME FROM THIRD
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 29, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know, I kinda of think of Buster as the one who would bring balance to the force
Obi-Won: Clearly Huff
Solo: Zito? Wilson?
Leia: Lincecum of course
Vote Nate 4 Chewie!
scary accurate arm = scary accurate crossbow. and he has the facial hair.
...Dr. Vader will see you now.
Old soul.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Posey has to be Obi-Wan
Fill in the blank:
“Help me, ______, you’re my only hope.”
Gotta be Buster Posey.
"I don’t think I’ve ever heard a louder chorus of boos than when the Dodgers made the third out of the ninth. It was awesome.." - Aubrey Huff
by EliminateMe on Jul 29, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
SIRM
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
no, this implies Buster eventually becomes a Dodger, then dies. I ain’t havin it.
by ThisIsMyNightmare on Jul 29, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t really understand why Buster isn’t Yoda
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
Doesn't Buster have to be Luke?
You know, “A New Hope.”
He is Obi-No Decision
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
No one has done Obi-Wan Cainobi yet?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
STOP MAKING OUT WITH YOUR SISTER AND USE HIT THE DAMN FORCE BALL LUKE
Seriously, Obi-wan couldn’t casually say “Try to keep your hands off the princess, Luke. You’ll thank me later.”
The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.
Just like he couldn't tell a 7-year old Anakin to stop lusting after a 15 year old Padme
Obi-wan was about the skills…not the peripheral stuff
I would
Throw Sabean out a window if that happened.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
/digs one hole to fill another
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
How does giving up Sanchez for Dunn make our team better. Seriously, give me the numbers to back that up.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
On this MB - I agree
Sanchez pisses me off as he is so damned inconsistent. But you cannot weaken this staff and get better. Period.
I would give up Neal and Wheeler, but would try to get them to take Surkamp instead of Wheeler.
Lastly, not that it’s necessary, but I would toss in John Bowker, just so he can hit dingerz in Washington.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
I wonder how interested the Nationals would be in a Bowker/Ishi/Rohlinger-type in the trade to fill up some major league roster spots NOW rather than just prospects with a year or two more in the minors.
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
"Because I don’t know what it means anymore, in the PCL. It’s almost like years ago."
"That’s not to say Buster isn’t fully committed or all-in. He is. He’s smart and he’s got the advance reports. Anybody who said he’s not ready to catch in the big leagues is crazy because he’s a pretty good catcher, especially throwing." - Sabean 7/11/10
Bowker should be part of any deal
At this point, I just feel sorry for the guy and want him to hit dingerz in the big leagues.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I would absolutely not give up someone from the rotation for Dunn or any other position player that is being talked about as a trade target.
Anything else is fair game.
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 29, 2010 10:08 AM PDT reply actions
I don’t give up all that for a rental. Wheeler is a high first round pick. Negotiate a two year extension for Dunn and I’m in. No extension, and I wouldn’t give up more than Neal.
Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees.
by rxmeister on Jul 29, 2010 10:09 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
funny, I’m just the opposite. I don’t want to overpay for Dunn. I’d rather take the picks than the extension.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
The only problem with this reasoning is that Dunn is high on the Yankees radar, so there is a great chance that only 1 pick comes back and not two since they will be looking for another pitcher too, and Dunn will hold out for the best deal possible.
you’ll always get two picks, just where those two picks are. I’m fine getting comp and 2nd round. Next year’s draft class is not just any normal draft class, but a supreme draft class.
It’s like the Alyssa Milano of draft classes. Every body gets a turn and no teams are left out.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
and 2 months of Dunn, first and foremost.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
If we had a legit chance of signing Dunn to a two or three year deal I think I would like it much better. Clearly adding Dunn right now would make us a legit threat, especially if Panda comes back to .300 or so with some doubles mixed in there. But I still think the Giants switched into “win now” mode too quickly and unless we get more than 3 months of Dunn we will be sorry in 2012.
I don't want Dunn beyond this year...
If there is debate as to how good he can be this year…why would I want him in 1 or 2 years?
I don’t think there is a debate, he has been one of the most consistent sluggers in MLB over the past years, and has not been injury prone. Paying him until he is 34-35 is not a bad plan. If he was 35 now, then I would not be so optimistic.
There is definitely a debate...
Dunn’s BB is way down, SO up, OBP down, Hrs down and cannot play defense…none of those things improve with age
I don’t think there is a debate
I made the case he only upgrades our team over Nate in a very marginal way, at best. There’s not a debate?
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Anyone else hoping we don't sign Brown?
I know I am.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I’d be into that.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
It would worry me b/c we damn well know that the money allocated to him for this year would not be put into the draft pot next year, meaning that Sabes will be doing more Alderson over Porcello type picks.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s a decision that doesn’t have anything to do with Gary Brown. If they decide to invest an extra few million per year in going after over-slot types, Gary Brown’s not going to stop them.
Not signing him this equals another pick next year, meaning the Giants will have more 1st round picks with the same budget.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Absolutely
I’d be totally fine with a do-over on that pick.
Dunn has more value to the AL since he can DH. That means, if the market is working, we HAVE to overpay to get him.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
TINSTAAP
Plus two 1st rounders!
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Not sure what you’re asking?
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
What is this NBA, which you speak of. Didn’t the National Basketball Association fold?
If you’re asking about TINSTAAPP, it stands for “There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect”, and sorry I left a P off.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
NHL is alive and well...
I also predict the Sharks will fail to reach the Stanley Cup finals, much in the same way I predict the Giants will fail to win the World Series every year, not because I’m against it, but because at this point I’ve come to expect it.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
That's not much of a prediction
That’s like saying that the sun will rise tomorrow…
I can’t decide which Bay Area team will get a title first…of course I may die before then but it’s fun to think about.
I like Dunn better as a short term player than a long term one.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
There’s been amazing progress with topical creams.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
there’s just noway those knees are going to hold up forever,under all that Adam Dunn
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
Breaks his own back with his swing?
Proud supporter of the Fightin' Hydrants.
by Little Napoleon on Jul 29, 2010 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Dunn is worth more in the AL than the NL. Basically, we shouldn’t be able to sign him for a deal that makes sense.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
they can have my virginity...
…I gave it away long ago. Commenting from Gran Cenote, Tulum, Riviera Maya — ain’t technology great?
"I wanted to pick a Rockie. But I dislike the Rockies. They're not bona fide." — Jon Miller on the postgame wrap, 7/1/10
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jul 29, 2010 10:10 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Nationals already took mine. And I didn’t even get a position player in return! Bastards.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Bite the bullet...
Offer them Rowand, I’d definitely give him up.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
I'm sure we could rustle up someone who's virginity they might want
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
Give them Grant!
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
...
Let them browse through the Men/Women of MCC swim suit calendar?
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
Natto?
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 29, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
“Here. Put this on.”
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
Let’s see those purity rings, people
Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 29, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Dunn would be a bold move
We haven’t had one of those for a while. Last year, we all wanted a big bat to push us into the playoffs. We didn’t get one.
This year, we’re even better. Fuck, this is a good team. When you win games like we won last night, let’s GO FOR IT.
Dunn = Going for it.
My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.
I hate this guy.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
Howies Hips
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 10:15 AM PDT reply actions
They don’t lie.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
OT
How much do you think Armando Rios hates Andres Torres right now?
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
Hell with it. Open the checkbook.
Proud supporter of the Fightin' Hydrants.
by Little Napoleon on Jul 29, 2010 10:17 AM PDT reply actions
Fine. Give them the prospects they want, but make them take Rowand, provided we pay his salary…..
Proud supporter of the Fightin' Hydrants.
by Little Napoleon on Jul 29, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Addition by subtraction.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
For Dunn...
No one in the Minors is off-limits. As long as no one from the current rotation goes, I’d be ecstatic.
by SixFourThree on Jul 29, 2010 10:17 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
OT -- Yu Loooong?
I’m Long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4edrEZ2A048
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
also OT
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Wow...your Chinese is good...
Although those 1870s Chinese migrant workers complained too much…a little racism some digging and getting blown up by dynamite…not too bad
LOL
only 10 major injuries per day. I shouldn’t laugh, but I am :(
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
how absurd
as if those Chinese railroad laborers could read and write
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
not about Dunn, but
I love Andres Torres
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
"Because I don’t know what it means anymore, in the PCL. It’s almost like years ago."
"That’s not to say Buster isn’t fully committed or all-in. He is. He’s smart and he’s got the advance reports. Anybody who said he’s not ready to catch in the big leagues is crazy because he’s a pretty good catcher, especially throwing." - Sabean 7/11/10
What are the Giants going to do with Torres...
After this season? He’s a free agent, right?
by Sabean_Is_Iago on Jul 29, 2010 10:21 AM PDT reply actions
Sign him to a 10 year, $400,000,000 contract and watch his performance fall off a cliff – it’s the Giants way.
And I don’t want fucking Adam Dunn.
no he is basically an indentured servant
I read somewhere he has 6 years or so until his free agency
The price to pay for being a minor leaguer until you hit 32
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
You don't get to FA
Until you have 6 years ML service time (barring other circumstances).
He’s currently making league minimum, but he’ll be arb eligible after this year.
He’s under team control for years.
My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.
Panda: Check
Water Buffalos: Check
Gazelle: Check
Puma: Not Likely
Sloth: Make some room boys!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 10:22 AM PDT reply actions
sloth?
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
Prefer hanging on to prospects in the system
to deter Sabean from overpaying unnecessary free agents next season
But Wheeler & Neal for Dunn won’t make me cry any.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
Why is everyone so down on Wheeler? I thought this guy had tremendous upside
by Sabean_Is_Iago on Jul 29, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
He does have tremendous upside, but that’s the problem with pitching prospects they’re very difficult to project and there are so many things, injury wise, that can go wrong with them. He’s in low A right now, so he’s years away from the majors.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
So you prefer hanging onto prospects, but you’re ok giving up two of our top prospects for a guy who, at best, is barely better than whoever he shifts out of the lineup? Those two thoughts seem very contradictory to me.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd sigh; I wouldn't caterwaul.
I don’t think Neal will ever be any better offensively than K-Fred was and Wheeler is at least two full seasons away from the majors.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
6 years of team/cost control over a player as good as K-Fred is more valuable than paying Adam Dunn a substantial amount of money for 2 months.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Neal is at least a full season away from the bigs.
Until then he has no actual value except as trade bait.
I would hang on to a potential ROY (Belt), but a better than OK dude (Neal) I would be willing to deal.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
Until then he has no actual value except as trade bait.
Future value is value, too. Sometimes to be a successful team long term, you actually have to, you know, plan long term?
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
NO FUTURE! WIN NOW!
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
That comp is beyond retarded, for the record
They have practically nothing in common except they are black and play LF.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
NEAL IS BLACK?!
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
Giants prospect Crawford is white!?
Giants prospect Crawford is Black!?
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
"Because I don’t know what it means anymore, in the PCL. It’s almost like years ago."
"That’s not to say Buster isn’t fully committed or all-in. He is. He’s smart and he’s got the advance reports. Anybody who said he’s not ready to catch in the big leagues is crazy because he’s a pretty good catcher, especially throwing." - Sabean 7/11/10
What do you mean by “plan my team’s future”? That every team is better off and can use players that contribute surplus value, other than maybe the Yankees? Rosters aren’t built around 1 player, they’re built on 25.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I just want to state this for the record. I think the Giants are going to make the playoffs. I think we’re the best team in the West, and a good candidate for the Wild Card if someone else wins the division. I’m almost completely happy with how management is currently running this team. I’m content with how things are.
I was planning on saying this (since I haven’t been around for a while) anyways, but to relate it to Dunn, there’s just no reason to get a guy who, at best, gives us a tiny, tiny upgrade overall but costs prospects to acquire. We have above replacement level players everywhere, adding offense and subtracting defense, while also putting a player of value on the bench, does not improve our team in a meaningful way.
Yikes
Adam Dunn in the lineup would be playing over Travis Ishikawa (and/or Nate Schierholtz, with Huff shifted to the IF)
Adam Dunn is a HUUUUUUGE upgrade over Travis and Nate.
My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.
he is quite the physical specimen
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
if only...
we could splice one part travis with one part dunn, you’d have the perfect 1B.
...Dr. Vader will see you now.
I thing my head just exploded
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD!
mccoven diversity: Romosexuals, Velezbians, Nerb's, fanGirlies--they're all here...
by greatgiantfan on Jul 29, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
At this point in his career, Dunn is maybe a +25 hitter offensively. Let’s regress his D a little and call him a -10 defensive player. I’m gonna call Schierholtz a +15 defender and a -5 hitter. On the surface, that appears to bring us +5 runs. Aubrey Huff moving from 1B to a corner OF spot, coincidentally, costs us 5 runs (using positional adjustments for this). It’s a wash. Even adjusting Schierholtz down to a -10 hitter, we’re talking about 5 runs over a whole season, or what, 2 runs at the most over the last 2 months? Huge upgrade? Really? Ishikawa is probably a league average hitter (maybe a little bit better, IMO, but we’ll ignore that) and +5-10 defender. Again, Huff to the OF costs 5 runs. We’re talking about MARGINAL upgrades. Give me the case against that.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
40 DINGURZ HAO CAN U BE AGAINST THAT
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
"I'm just gonna pull some numbers out of my ass that happen to prove my point"
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Or I’m going to look at things like career UZR and regress them some, look at things like Ishikawa’s career 98 wRC+ (and he’s doing better than that this yaer) to call him league average, look at Dunn’s offense and adjust it down some for his BABIP….sure, they’re off the cuff estimates, but they’re not just completely made up. If you want to argue a number, by all means, argue it and I’ll make the case why my number matters.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I understand where you’re coming from, but the case against that is you just made most of those numbers up.
"Bengie Molina - the quintessential double play possibility." - Jon MIller
by calpolynate on Jul 29, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Or, like I said in my response to Villiphied, I used actual data to come up with them. If you think my numbers are off, make a case you think is more accurate.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Let’s regress his D a little and call him a -10 defensive player. I’m gonna call Schierholtz a +15 defender and a -5 hitter.
"Bengie Molina - the quintessential double play possibility." - Jon MIller
by calpolynate on Jul 29, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know
but I wouldn’t guess and claim they’re 100% accurate.
"Bengie Molina - the quintessential double play possibility." - Jon MIller
by calpolynate on Jul 29, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
well first off
I’d be EXTREMELY hesitant to call any player higher than a +10 defender, unless there’s a LOT of data to back that up.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I'm in that line
especially at 1B. There just isn’t enough action there to make it possible.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
"Quiet you, I'm starting a meme." - Me
"You can shake a dozen glove men out of a tree, but the bat separates the men from the boys." - Washington Senators First baseman Dale Long
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
Schierholtz was the one who was +15 and that’s in the outfield. His UZR/150 for his career in the outfield is 23.2 in 1440 innings.
The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.
as i stated above
23.2 UZR/150 would put him as quite easily the best RF MLB has seen in quite some time. I’m not ready to say that yet.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
There is definitely no reason to think he’s 23.2 good. We have to regress. The question is, how much. Your +10 thing is understandable, I don’t have a problem with that line of thinking, though I will acknowledge at a corner OF spot I think it’s reasonable to adjust that number up some since corner OF’ers are -7.5 run defenders overall, on average. But yes, I basically regressed the UZR number to get +15.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Are you disputing that I used regressed UZR numbers for those? And yes, I did give Nate a little offensive bump fore regular PT, because regular PT DOES make players, on average, hit better.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I went off his +23.2 UZR/150 for his career and regressed it some. If you think it’s off, by all means, make the case we should be using a different number.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I know I’m trying to project defense, I usually set the end points at -10 to +10. +10 being the really really good guys.
Ask me about my blog.
lol
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Hi, I'm Mark DeRosa
With Dragon Voice Recognition software, I never lose arguments with nerds because of a typo.
My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.
Do you adjust that -10 to +10 number at all based on position? I think it’s reasonable to think a corner OF should have a wider range because on the + side, their peer group sucks so it’s easier to stand out by a lot, and on the negative side, terrible, terrible defenders get stuck in the OF so I could see guys worse than -10 being there. And unlike 1B, they get enough plays to have that kind of range in fielding runs.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I buy that in theory, but I sure don’t think Nate Schierholtz is in the same league as Ichiro or Carl Crawford.
I’m definitely open to arguments we should regress his UZR more than I did if you want to make any. I personally think Schierholtz is a better defender than Roawnd (and at worst, at least as good). If we think Rowand is a 0 to +5 defensive CF….well, a +15 COF UZR from Schierholtz translates to +5 in CF. I don’t think that’s outrageous at all. Do you?
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, it makes a lot of sense, right, because each position uses different peer groups? If you assume the average MLB player is a 0 defensively, something that’s +10 compared to the average will be a +17.5 in a corner OF spot, +7.5 in CF, etc. Different peer groups make for different possibilities.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
23.2 UZR/150
would make him easily the greatest RF ever.
+15 would put him right around best ever.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
+15 would put him right around best ever
Well, I don’t know where it’d put him historically (especially given how far back UZR doesn’t go), it’d definitely make him very good. More importantly, this is a selection bias issue. All the really good defensive outfielders play CF.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
The answer, of course, is to bring up Bowker instead.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 29, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Ha, I’m definitely in this line of thought, though I hadn’t really even thought of it.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
nice analysis
took me a couple minutes to find the hole. I don’t think you can call Churros a +15 defender. And even if he is, he’s not playing.
If we get Dunn we are booting some combination of Uribe/Burrell/Scheirholtz/Renteria/Sanchez/Ishikawa and maybe JUST MAYBE a little Rowand out of the lineup.
Dunn @ 1B locks Huff into LF and Sandoval at 3B for the vast majority of games. It’s sort of hard to amortize all the possible weighted defensive alignments and UZRs but it’s certainly not a flat out Dunn vs. Schierholtz.
For example, you don’t get the full -5 for moving Huff to LF. Huff is playing LF TODAY.
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
I actually take the first part of this back.
So much as UZR is accurate, I must conclude that Churros is a +10-15 fielder, at least in AT&T. HIs career UZR/150 in RF is 23.
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
Yep, I do regress my numbers. I do know what I’m doing, even if I’m just doing quick and dirty estimates that might not be that accurate because of the lack of effort. ;)
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Even if we talk about removing someone like Ishikawa straight up – I’m comfortable saying Ishikawa is probably somewhere like +20 runs better than Dunn defensively. He’s also pretty average offensively, meaning Dunn is AT BEST +30 runs better than Ishi offensively (he’s on pace for 30 this year, and I still think I have a strong case he should hit worse for the remainder of this year that he has, PLUS he should hit worse in AT&T, and his previous two years averaged about +30). So you’re talking about +1 win over the full course of the season. The other players you also mentioned are all and probably fairly similar to Ishikawa in overall value (~2 WAR players).
With 37% of the season left, you’re talking about a case that most likely will result in 0 additional wins (expected improvement – anywhere from 0 to .37 wins). And people want to give up top prospects for that? Multiple top prospects? Really?
Ultimately, I’d say sure, if you gave me one Adam Dunn, I think I could marginally improve this team (Dunn, Uribe/Rent/Freddy, Sandoval, Huff, Torres, Burrell/Schierholtz or Bowker platoon). But given how little time is left, given that Dunn will cost money AND talent to acquire….well, Type A draft status is worth between $3-5M (let’s go with $3M here since someone else suggested he’ll be a bottom tier Type A guy so we could end up with a second rounder instead of 1st or something), and we’ll be paying him about $4M, so it costs us $1M AND talent for what, a 0 win expected upgrade? Doesn’t strike me as a good move at all, short of the “talent” part being a John Bowker who clearly isn’t in our long term plans.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think its a tiny upgrade
I think it’s significant especially considering:
a) The man is, as stated in the upthread, a clock like 40 homeruns and .400 OBP
b) His defensive problems get covered up at First, with the K/Flyball staff we have.
c) If Buster/Huff/Torres start to fall off at all we have someone to anchor the lineup
Proud adoptee of Dick Tidrow the mastermind behind Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Buster Posey and many more. Also known as "The Reason".
Dunn does not have a .400 OBP...
Career OBP is .382
Compare Dunn 2009 v. 2010:
2009: .267 AVG, .398 OPS, .529 Slg 38 Hrs, 105 Rbis, 116 BBs, 177 SO,
2010: .275 AVG, .362 OPS, 553 Slg 23 Hrs. 23 Rbis, 46 BBs, 125 SO.
The man is, as stated in the upthread, a clock like 40 homeruns and .400 OBP
The dude is posting the highest BA of his entire career, on the back of the highest BABIP of his entire career, and his OBP is .362. Can we at least get our facts straight? He’s also at 23 HR’s in 2/3 of a season. Did I mention he’s at the point of his career where guys get worse?
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Alrighty
Facts: Career OBP – .382, The past 6 seasons – 38+ homeruns.
As far as getting worse – that doesn’t matter to us after this year. He walks, we get two first round picks, get to at least somewhat replenish the system from the hit it takes by trading ’spects for him.
Proud adoptee of Dick Tidrow the mastermind behind Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Buster Posey and many more. Also known as "The Reason".
Career OBP – .382
Walk rates become reliable in around 200+ PA’s. Dunn is just over 400 and has an 11% walk rate. His career walk rate is 16.4%. He’s a worse hitter than he used to be. Also, AT&T suppresses HR’s to RF by 20-30%.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Fair Point
His power as a lefty def. takes a hit. But I’m fairly certain that the Walk Rate is gonna get more in line with his career avg. I don’t think that Walks are usually the skill that fall off as players get older. Bat Speed, Fielding etc. fine. But Walk rates shouldn’t be declining as a symptom of getting older.
Proud adoptee of Dick Tidrow the mastermind behind Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Buster Posey and many more. Also known as "The Reason".
Yes...it means he is guessing more to compensate the lack of bat speed
it correlates to a higher SO rate
he'd be playing 1B
so the winds won’t affect it too much
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I also think his walk rate will be higher going forward, but I think we should conclude that he will not walk as much as previously in his career.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
you keep saying this
but walk rates tend to not suddenly shift (especially by 5+% off of career) because of a sudden shift in true talent. Talent/ability simply does not work that way. I really think that you don’t understand what the stability of a statistic means and what it has to do with a player’s talent level.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I really think that you don’t understand what the stability of a statistic means and what it has to do with a player’s talent level.
I don’t think I’ve ever been accused of this before….I honestly don’t know what to say. The larger the sample size, the smaller the standard deviation. Some things naturally have small standard deviation (meaning you don’t need as big a sample size to make conclusions from a given change), while others are larger. Walk rate has a standard deviation that tends to be smaller than other metrics, so you can reach a conclusion based on a smaller sample size. Given how large the change is, and how large the sample size is, we can reject the H0 that his current talent level = his career sample. What that means is he’s worse. It doesn’t necessarily tell us “how much” worse, but it does mean we SHOULD conclude he’s worse. That’s how sampling works. The whole idea of this is that guys really don’t have shifts like the one going on with Dunn, so we know something is different. Especially given the “stability” thing I linked to was, again, based on something like year to year correlations…..
….
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Seriously...
Didn’t anyone read Moneyball? BB% is the last thing to go from a good hitter. David Justice!
I would be more worried about Dunn if his POWER was slumping, which it isn’t. A depressed BB% in one season is not something to worry about.
My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.
Didn’t anyone read Moneyball?
Sigh….really?
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
His defensive problems get covered up at First, with the K/Flyball staff we have.
They might be “lessened”, but they are not covered up. Also, IT PUSHES AUBREY HUFF TO THE OF. It’s not a hard concept to grasp.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Huff
Has been been fine in the OF. He has at least been league average. I think his UZR numbers back that up.
Proud adoptee of Dick Tidrow the mastermind behind Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Buster Posey and many more. Also known as "The Reason".
First, Huff is a -9.3 UZR/150 defender in corner OF spots in his career in 2300+ innings. Second, if you’re only looking at one year of UZR, you’re doing it wrong. Third, regardless of how good Huff is, you lose 5 runs transitioning from 1B to a corner OF spot, on average.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Also
this likely moves Huff to RF more often to let Burrel play. Huff is really bad at RF.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2011 Opening Day starting SS!
Disagree
If we get Dunn, then its probably Nate or Rowand with Torres and Huff in the OF
Proud adoptee of Dick Tidrow the mastermind behind Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Buster Posey and many more. Also known as "The Reason".
So Burrel gets 0 AB's after this?
I doubt Bochy lets him sit that long.
Brandon Crawford: Your SF Giants 2011 Opening Day starting SS!
Stop Trading my boy!
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by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2010 10:31 AM PDT reply actions
Don't trade Neal
He’s king of OPS on the farm
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
It's funny how this could have been avoided
if Sabean actually called Dunn when he was a free agent
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 AM PDT reply actions
Playing hard to get I see…
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jul 29, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
meh i was in this boat at the time
didnt think he could repeat his performance outside cinncy’s bandbox
"Life is like a grapefruit. Well, it's sort of orangy-yellow and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, too. Oh, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
by operation carrot on Jul 29, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t understand all the people that are willing to tade Wheeler now. It would be an extreme case of selling low if we did. Wheeler is going to be a stud sometime in the next 2 years, and we’d be able to get a huge haul for him if we want to trade him then.
I also wouldn’t trade Neal for Dunn. Please realize that the Nats are only going to get a late 1st round pick and a 1S for Dunn, at best, in next year’s draft. Nobody that they’re likely to get there would be the equal of Wheeler or Neal. We should be offering the Nats 3-4 C to B-minus prospects, and no more, for Dunn now. If they don’t accept it then we move on. The only guy in Washington that would be worth a Neal or Wheeler (that they might be willing to trade) is Josh Willingham.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
If we’re going to go for broke on someone, I’m not sure it should be Adam Dunn. Who it would be exactly, I’m not sure.
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jul 29, 2010 10:35 AM PDT reply actions
Werth is probably the best go-for-broke type.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Agreed. A real superstar would be ok. Adam Dunn is not anything close to that.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm all in
I remember in 2003 I felt we should have traded Jerome or Jesse for Vazquez. Instead we got Ponson. I still believe that having Schmidt and Vazquez back to back in the rotation would have gotten us the ring. So I’m all in on this trade. I am the biggest Belt fan in the world, but I’d trade him along with everyone else. I say we go for broke:
Belt, Nate, Wheeler
for
Dunn, Willlingham and Burnett
Proud adoptee of Dick Tidrow the mastermind behind Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Buster Posey and many more. Also known as "The Reason".
Maybe they’ll throw in Ryan Zimmerman too!
by RoyaleWithCheese on Jul 29, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Beltran?
I’m traveling at a meeting so could have missed this, but does anyone want him? The Mets might be willing to dump. He has been hurt all year but he ops’d over 900 last year.
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
clankmittery?
is that an FP word? like “hitterish?”
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
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less than I thought
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FWIW
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and on other planets
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OT: Salary Cap Pokemanz
A keeper league I’ve been in for quite some time is currently trying to institute a salary cap (using players real salaries) for next year. I am personally against it, and I dont’ think I’ve even ever heard of fantasy baseball leagues (non-auction) that use a salary cap based on real contracts.
Having trouble putting my opposing argument into words, anyone got any views they want to share on the matter? I know all of you love to argue.
One simple point...
It’s a keeper league, so why would anyone want their potential keepers salaries to be determined by the idiocy of what a bad GM thinks a player is worth? If you want to do something like this, why not do some kind of keeper auction league where at least you guys would be the ones determining the worth of the players. The other way you’re really just introducing another element of randomness, because it’s hard to predict who’s going to get overpaid the most from year to year.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jul 29, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
i think it would kind of fun
"Life is like a grapefruit. Well, it's sort of orangy-yellow and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, too. Oh, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
by operation carrot on Jul 29, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
STOP SAYING THAT
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
HALLO!
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by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
The fetishization of defense has gone too far
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
"Quiet you, I'm starting a meme." - Me
"You can shake a dozen glove men out of a tree, but the bat separates the men from the boys." - Washington Senators First baseman Dale Long
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
Remember when we all thought Aubrey Huff was a poor defensive first baseman?
by Rook Takes Pawn on Jul 29, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Remember when defensive metrics said he was? That would be in the present. All the evidence indicates he’s a below average 1B.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
So then why are we upset about Dunn’s defense? Is it really that much worse than Huff’s at first?
I’d much rather have Huff in LF over Burrell, have Burrell coming off the bench.
by Rook Takes Pawn on Jul 29, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, it really is that much worse than Huff’s. It also means Huff’s defense is worse because he moves to the OF.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
(And I am assuming the best lineup involves Huff at 1B)
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
ironically
in an extremely small sample (but it’s all we’ve got) Huff has been very slightly above average in the OF
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
All we got? I’m curious why you say that, we have UZR data for Huff in the OF for almost 2400 innings. We also know 1B, on average, are 5 runs worse than corner OF, and we have 3000+ innings of 1B UZR telling us he’s 4.3 better at 1B than in COF, which basically agrees perfectly…..
Actually, I just noticed a problem with Fangraphs. Now that they’ve seperated innings and UZR, their innings overstates things since it includes all innings even prior to UZR data, so I’m slightly overstating those innings….
Stupid Fangraphs. :\
I actually complained in an email to Appelman as soon as they did that, I hate it.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
oh i see what I was looking at now
stupid fangraphs.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
YAY
The Rangers and Marlins are getting closer on a deal for corner infielder Jorge Cantu, tweets Clark Spencer of the Miami Herald.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/rangers-getting-closer-on-cantu-deal.html
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jul 29, 2010 10:44 AM PDT reply actions
Praise Jesus!
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Montero obviously
Keith law does it every day.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Awesome
One less dumb option for Sabean if he gets desperate.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
The dry humper drives up the price again.
My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.
by GiantPain on Jul 29, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Chances that the Giants make a move today?
I’m going to guess 40%. I think the early start time helps, but I couldn’t tell you why
by Sabean_Is_Iago on Jul 29, 2010 10:48 AM PDT reply actions
Wow, Ed Wade is an idiot.
The Phillies are sending 3 “talented” low level minor leaguers to the Astros for Oswalt and 11 Million and are adding 1 million to the buyout.
So they get Oswalt for this year (4 M roughly) and next year (19 M roughly) and are getting 11 M from the Astros.
Wow
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 10:50 AM PDT reply actions
RAJ is still dumb
Cliff Lee for bad prospects
OK prospects (Happ might have a future) for more expensive + worse Oswalt.
My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.
Smart for the Astros to essentially buy prospects.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Put they really didn’t get a lot in return. Gose? Happ? Nice, yeah but not anything to right home about.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh I didn’t look at specifics. Wade does suck, so I’m not surprised if they got a crappy return, but in theory, I like the concept.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think the Giants are going to make any kind of move before the deadline
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jul 29, 2010 10:50 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Good.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 29, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s pretty much what I want at this point.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d be surprised if Sabes doesn’t at least grab a bullpen arm.
The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.
Oh the highjinks
Rizzo: Neal for Dunn?
Sabean: Sure!
Rizzo: Great! Let’s not waste anymore time (unzips pants)
Sabean: What are you doing? Wait…you meant that?
/cue laughtrack
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
by Goofus on Jul 29, 2010 10:51 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Wrecked
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I would hope Sabes would be willing to make that trade. Take one for the team
Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 29, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I really really really dont want to move wheeler
we need someone in case madbum regresses to aaa numbers, sanchez gets traded in the summer or goes back to bad sanchez, or basically any other scenario that doesnt require us to give 10 million a year to a shitty mid rotation starter
"Life is like a grapefruit. Well, it's sort of orangy-yellow and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, too. Oh, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
by operation carrot on Jul 29, 2010 10:52 AM PDT reply actions
My pick would be.....
Jason Grilli…..
Now, to be serious…..not really sure. This is always a crap-shoot
Rick
Goooooooooooo MSU BOBCATs
MONTANA STATE UNIVERSITY
Almost 60 years as a YANKEE Fan
I would give up zach wheeler for Adam Dunn.
McCovey Chronicles - The repetition is awesome. Proud Adoptive Parent of BRETT PILL.
READ MY BLOG!!!!
by sadison bummedgarner on Jul 29, 2010 10:57 AM PDT reply actions
Dunn isn’t exactly a DNW type of player for me, but that said I’m not exactly enamored with the idea of getting him right now either. His bat doesn’t fit the park. His glove DEFINITELY doesn’t fit the park. His skillset doesn’t fit what this team really needs, IMO, which is a multi-talented RF (you know, like someone who can play defense, run, AND hit, not ONLY hit). So what would I give up for Dunn? Neal I guess, but that’s mostly because I’m not a huge believer in him anyway (I think he’ll be a decent major leaguer, and may eventually start, but I don’t see him as a future star or middle of the order bat).
Count me in for “stand pat.” Unless we could get someone like Werth or Shin Soo Choo, or (I guess) Willingham. Oh and I really like Uggla, even though he’s quite the clankmitt like Dunn… somehow I just think he’d fit in a bit better here.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jul 29, 2010 11:01 AM PDT reply actions
/ahem
but dude its dingerz
McCovey Chronicles - The repetition is awesome. Proud Adoptive Parent of BRETT PILL.
READ MY BLOG!!!!
by sadison bummedgarner on Jul 29, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
or hits them even
McCovey Chronicles - The repetition is awesome. Proud Adoptive Parent of BRETT PILL.
READ MY BLOG!!!!
by sadison bummedgarner on Jul 29, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Neal I guess, but that’s mostly because I’m not a huge believer in him anyway (I think he’ll be a decent major leaguer, and may eventually start, but I don’t see him as a future star or middle of the order bat).
A player like that under cost/team control is more valuable than 2 months of Adam freaking Dunn.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Torres RF
F.Sanchez 2B
Huff LF
Posey C
Uribe 3B
Sandoval 1B
Rowand CF
Renteria SS
Bumgarner SP
McCovey Chronicles - The repetition is awesome. Proud Adoptive Parent of BRETT PILL.
READ MY BLOG!!!!
by sadison bummedgarner on Jul 29, 2010 11:01 AM PDT reply actions
WHERE IS DUNN!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
LUMBERING SOMEWHERE
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 29, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
needs less Rowand
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 29, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
But he is a professional Fish gutter!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Burrell in the dog house?
Granted he has been crashing down to earth pretty spectacularly.
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Rowand’s been hitting. Gotta ride the hot bat!
by Monkeyking42 on Jul 29, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
It doesn't even feel like a LOLineup anymore...
that’s progress! we’re moving towards mediocre, maybe even average!
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jul 29, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I like how you felt the need to put “F” in front of Sanchez so we wouldn’t get confused and think Dirty was batting second.
"Buster's basically a 21-year-old hot-chick that's an old soul" - Barry Zito
by Prussian Creole on Jul 29, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
One thing to remember about Dunn is that he’s not an automatic 1st round pick like Werth. I think I count 18 FA’s with a higher Elias Ranking than him, so there’s a solid chance that the team that signs him also signs a higher ranked type A. Also, unlike Werth, he’s not guaranteed to sign with a top-20 team.
I don’t know how important that is, but I think it’s worth mentioning.
I was promised lasagna.
St Louis getting Bork'd
John (NJ)
Colby Rasmus is sitting again today. What’s been wrong with him?
Klaw (1:09 PM)
Excessive youth.
ROFL
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
he's been slumping
and killin my pokemonz, too
Nats want Bumgarner for Dunn
NO THANKS BYE
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/27/SPQS1EKVPD.DTL&type=sports#ixzz0uxoJColr
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFU, Nats.
Ask me about my blog.
by xanthan on Jul 29, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh. Well. That makes it a much less difficult decision.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
“Another source said when the Giants asked the Nationals for Adam Dunn, they sought Madison Bumgarner in return.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/27/SPQS1EKVPD.DTL&type=sports#ixzz0v61blPot"
I mentioned this on the fanpost about Dunn. I had heard that a couople of days ago, I think.
Buser Posey: He knows the rules!
Sabean should not return that phone call
Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Jul 29, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
HA HA HA
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 29, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
sorry link fail
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/27/SPQS1EKVPD.DTL&type=sports#ixzz0uxoJColr
the failure continues
stupid sfgate syntax
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
"Quiet you, I'm starting a meme." - Me
"You can shake a dozen glove men out of a tree, but the bat separates the men from the boys." - Washington Senators First baseman Dale Long
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
Don’t worry about it. We’re not too lazy to just cut and paste.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Speak for yourself
I certainly am.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Me too.
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU
I tweet (more often than I blarg).
by can of corn on Jul 29, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of trade talk...
How did I miss this?:
The Giants inquired on Mariners closer David Aardsma, MLBTR has learned. However, the Mariners countered by offering Aardsma and Jose Lopez for Pablo Sandoval and were turned down.
Buser Posey: He knows the rules!
You’d think that all teams would know that he’s off limits. If nothing else, he’s one of the faces of the franchise. But, maybe they thought his slipping offensive performance would change that?
Buser Posey: He knows the rules!
I think the Giants will hold onto Sandoval for a while, maybe even too long because of the marketing stuff that you mentioned.
CAN’T SELL ANYMORE PANDA HATS!
Ask me about my blog.
The panda hats were exactly what I was thinking of when I typed that. Not necessarily rational, but it’s definitely a factor.
Buser Posey: He knows the rules!
Those stupid (stupid because I didn’t get one cause it cost too much) orange hulk hands are like $25 or $35, if I’m remembering right, so the Panda hats can’t be cheap.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
WAG
about 15 times more than it costs to make them
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
"Quiet you, I'm starting a meme." - Me
"You can shake a dozen glove men out of a tree, but the bat separates the men from the boys." - Washington Senators First baseman Dale Long
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
Couldn’t hurt to ask, really.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
When I first came to the states
I asked a pretty white girl out. I got laughed at. I still asked.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Thankfully you found true love years later at that B&B.
Ask me about my blog.
by xanthan on Jul 29, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
/doffs cap to xanthan
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
IT WAS THE ONLY ROOM AVAILABLE
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Lawl
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Nice
My adopted son is RHP Steve Edlefsen, no longer above Gerald Posey on the catching depth chart!
We're from San Francisco!
/cue laugh track
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
KEEP UR HANDS OFF MY WILD KINGDOM
"Bengie Molina - the quintessential double play possibility." - Jon MIller
by calpolynate on Jul 29, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s kind of an interesting trade. Not one I’d make in a million years, but an interesting idea.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Someone posted a second link
It wasn’t really a counteroffer. Basically the Giants started talking about Aardsma, and Seattle made it clear that it would taker a lot to get him.
I was promised lasagna.
LOL Blast from the Past.
My adopted son is RHP Steve Edlefsen, no longer above Gerald Posey on the catching depth chart!
how can the nationals ask for bumgarner?
dunn is a free agent after the season
McCovey Chronicles - The repetition is awesome. Proud Adoptive Parent of BRETT PILL.
READ MY BLOG!!!!
by sadison bummedgarner on Jul 29, 2010 11:14 AM PDT reply actions
Did you expect them to ask for Pucetas?
I ain't havin' it
by NuschlerFace on Jul 29, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Just to blow this thread up even more. I watched the Godfather last week for the first time. It was good, but not great.
Ask me about my blog.
The second one is better.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
It’s on my que! But a few spots down from my next movie.
Also, watched the Road last night, very good.
Ask me about my blog.
2nd one is the best
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Didn’t you love the police captain assassination scene, though? The slow zooming camera, the tension, the use of sound. I get super anxious every time I see that scene.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
It probably went on for too long, but I thought it was interesting to see the extent to which the mob still had connections with the old world. American criminals could hide there and blend in to some degree, but the long arm of vengeance could still reach you.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
How is that a spoiler? He sets out to assassinate the police captain. That is known way before the scene even happens. I didn’t say how it turned out.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
also
it’s the goddamn Godfather. Movies get a “spoiler” courtesy for a year at best.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I will hunt down anyone that ruins it for me
I am still reading this book where the main character tells his closest friends that one of them will betray him not once but three times before the cock crows .
Tension!!
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
...
/adds I’m_a_Man to “the list”
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
Cock.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
...
/adds I’m_a_Man to “the list”
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
...
/scribbles out previous comment on list
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
2nd one is amazing
3rd one, not so much.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
The funny thing is that you could be talking about 3 possible actresses here, and in all cases you’d be right.
I was promised lasagna.
She's way way bad
I don’t care for her directing either, although her movies always have excellent soundtracks.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
I don’t think I’ve seen any of her movies other than The Virgin Suicides…which was OK.
Ask me about my blog.
I don’t recommend Lost in Translation.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
She does. You have to be willing to commit yourself to the movie no matter how slow it gets.
by ThisIsMyNightmare on Jul 29, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
you must see zombie land if you haven’t already
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
If you also love jokes about the Japanese people, then maybe I recommend that movie to you.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
The movie isn’t about Japanese culture. I’s about Japaese culture seen from the eyes of two jet-lagged westerners who know absolutely nothing about Japanese culture. I don’t know if that’s really offensive.
I was promised lasagna.
I actually don’t remember the movie particularly well. I just remember seeing a lot of LOLSHORT and ENGRISH jokes. The rest of the movie wasn’t really good enough in my opinion to make me want to go back and challenge that perception.
Also: Bill Murray getting romantic with Scarlett Johansson is kind of icky.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
To be fair, I never said that the movie was racist.
To also be fair, Engrish jokes can be pretty racist.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I always thought the line was so blurry between regional/national jokes and racism. When the Simpsons includes a joke like “cheese-eating surrender monkey” or “The Big Book of British Smiles,” it’s funny. If they were to do something similarly stereotypical for any country that wasn’t predominantly white, there would be a ruckus.
I’m pretty sure Apu wouldn’t be an acceptable character if the show were developed today, for instance. I just find it fascinating that we can make fun of the French or Germans but we can’t do the same for the Japanese without being racist.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 29, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I think there are a lot of reasons. Not all of them are good reasons, absolutely, but I got pretty tired of being the white guy worrying about how unfair it all is a long time ago.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
And as to the question of Apu, I’d say this: How do you feel about Hermes and his wife and son? Or Leo Wong and his wife?
I actually do think Leo Wong is kind of offensive, but I’ve never thought that Hermes or his family created any sort of race problem whatsoever – and his family is basically the Nahasapeemapetilons of Futurama.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I dunno, they’re getting away with those damn “Tech ’n Talk” commercials.
Not great marketing since I’ve no idea who they’re for, but they are still on the air.
Metro Not-PC S phone service!
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions
wait why are engrish jokes racist?
are hanzismatter type jokes racist as well? Because I’ve been enjoying those for years, unaware that I was being racist.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
I said can be. I didn’t say they are.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
weaseling noted.
Mark DeRosa is playing exactly the same amount of professional baseball as his adopted father, these days.
Weaseling my ass, it’s what I actually fucking said.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you have a top-10 list?
Curious to read it.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 29, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Not really
No off the top of my head, at least. Both Godfathers would be on it.
I was promised lasagna.
Plus, The Human Centipede’s gotta be right up there… so to speak.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s exactly how I remember it, too. I hated it. Also, lots of shots highlighting cultural differences/lonliness etc that did absolutely nothing for my enjoyment of it.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I got that, and like I said, it added nothing whatsoever to my enjoyment of it. Nothing.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
But she’s horrible in all of them. Well, maybe not her, but the character is terrible.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Talia Shire, for example, mainly sucked because her character made no sense. Keaton is just bad.
I was promised lasagna.
Why did her character make no sense?
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
I think Al sucked in the last one too. (and pretty much 9/10 of the movies he has down since)
/SCREAMS LINE IN FIT OF ANGER!!!!!!!!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Pacino drives me nuts. In the role that made him immortal, he represses everything, and creates a brilliant character. In every other movie he’s ever made, he chews scenery. How can he have learned nothing from playing Michael Corleone?
Was great in Scent of a Woman. Maybe it just worked because that had to be such a big character, but it still worked.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
ANY GIVEN SUNDAY
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s what I do.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
CITY HALL
with John Cusack (also Bridget Fonda and Danny Aiello)
“Get that Gumbo outa your Yiddish”
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
First off, yes, it is great, second off, the second one is better, as rotorueter said.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
No, I think you’re getting Hitler_dick. Let me know when you aren’t at work.
by Grant Brisbee on Jul 29, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
watch it again
the plot is quite dense, im sure you missed plenty of details. Personally, i;ve seen it about 20 times. Just gets better and better.
dot com?
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Shit, I missed the “not” in the previous comment.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I also suppose I missed the joke.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
imissedthejoke.com?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
How can you go [xanthan's age] years without seeing that movie?
My adopted son is RHP Steve Edlefsen, no longer above Gerald Posey on the catching depth chart!
I still haven’t seen it.
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU
I tweet (more often than I blarg).
by can of corn on Jul 29, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I will be shocked if the giants make any moves before deadline
everyone seems to be asking for an absurdly amount for each player. Bumgarner for Dunn? No thanks. Aardsma and Lopez for Panda? No way.
Hi Lookout Landing!
Sorry Jose Lopez sucks :-/
Sorry Griffey return never panned out :-/
Sorry Cliff Lee didn’t do anything :-/
You tryin to get rid of Felix…?
by ThisIsMyNightmare on Jul 29, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
are we really 4 games behind the padres in the loss column?
i hate the fucking padres
what the fuck
"Life is like a grapefruit. Well, it's sort of orangy-yellow and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, too. Oh, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
by operation carrot on Jul 29, 2010 11:24 AM PDT reply actions
But only one behind in the win column
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
i'd throw in rowand and bochy too
along with their salaries
Gary Radnich
Just said Cole Hamels is better than Matt Cain. The game needs to start ASAP
by Sabean_Is_Iago on Jul 29, 2010 11:28 AM PDT reply actions
Oh dear.
My adopted son is RHP Steve Edlefsen, no longer above Gerald Posey on the catching depth chart!
I stopped reading after the subject line
by calbearjd on Jul 29, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s why I listen to Jim Rome.
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
Wrong as well...
Only time it’s acceptable to listen to ESPN radio is when Radnich and Rome are your only other choices
Jim Rome
3 term President of the douche-bag club. I hate the Rams, but sill love watching Jim Everett kick the crap out of him.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Rome is a douche… but perhaps still better than Radnich.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
Exactly
There are no other options during the 9-12 hours. It’s either Radnich, Rome, or Colin Cowherd. I’ll take Rome every day.
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
Rome vs Cowherd is a toss up if your radio is stuck on AM…. but I think I’d rather listen to music
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
Except
Cowherd has no idea what the fuck he’s talking about and gets paid for it, that angers me.
by itlynstalyn on Jul 29, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
This is why I don’t listen to sports talk radio
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis who is stuck in the baseball purgatory called extended spring training.
I still think some Bay Area columnist should do a series on advanced stats. They could do one stat each day for a week during the offseason, explaining the pro’s and con’s of each. It’s only way guys like Radnich will stay current.
by Sabean_Is_Iago on Jul 29, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Radnich would turn into Joe Morgan. And hell, Flem sounds like he just barely familiar with WAR… I don’t really see this happening unless Grant gets a job at the Chron.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t really see this happening unless Grant gets a job at the Chron.
Why are you trying to ruin Grant’s career?
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
I didn’t say I supported such a thing.
(“Career”?)
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Jul 29, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Grant works for a desk humping llama fetishist… define ‘ruin’.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 29, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I think Flem knows more than he lets on on air. I’m pretty sure he knows that if he starts going into detail about WAR on a regular basis, he’ll lose his job.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
If I had a job like that, I’d definitely dumb what I know down a lot and not let on to how much I know. Heck, I do that with my roommates. I have yet to even bring up something like Fangraphs to them when talking baseball….
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I do that with people I know a lot. The most complex I usually get is “I don’t trust small numbers – weird things happen when you’re talking about small numbers.”
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I was talking about the Giants with my friend, who I’d never discussed baseball with before. He had the newspaper, and he went through the Giants’ roster, reading all of the batting averages for this year, and decided whether each player was good or not based solely on that. It was disturbing.
My adopted son is RHP Steve Edlefsen, no longer above Gerald Posey on the catching depth chart!
sell him stock in the Royals!
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
I have also explained that I prefer OBP because counting the total outs not made seems more logical to me than counting only one specific type of not-out made.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I was going to suggest that some of you upperclassman statbags do the same for us here (during the offseason). It’s easy to go any research them on our own, but if it was a daily thread here, we’d get the advantage of people using the G’s as examples (easier to understand with our favorite players included), and we’d still get all the news we come here for.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
People actually have been doing those a lot recently. I do agree making it Giants specific would be good.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Not that crazy of a thing to say. Hamels is a verry good pitcher and could easily have a better peak than Cain.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
You shut your mouth when you're talking to me
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Just off the top of my head, I think his FIP is rather high.
by Sabean_Is_Iago on Jul 29, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah his FIP is 4.30 compared to his 3.48 ERA.
by Sabean_Is_Iago on Jul 29, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
And Hamels is the second his.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Hamel v. Cain FIP
Hamel: 2006-2009
3.96
3.80
3.70
3.71
Cain: 2005-2009
3.97
4.01
3.76
3.85
3.86
Cain’s better…
Cain’s better…?
I love Cain, I just never understood the Hamels hate.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
That is indeed what the FIP #s indicate
Although they’re remarkably close, and both are consistent.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
They are more or less equals.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Because he’s about as douchey as Zito?
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
But the dude can pitch.
I do want to throw my TV out when he does the Comcast commercial though.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
But not as good as
She’s the wife of a Dodger player now, so the gloves can come off, since her clothes already have.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Good thing you misspelled it
I found the right site and it auto-loaded some nice porn music for my co-workers to hear.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Yup
Good thing I misspelled it, sorry, but I thought it was apparent what type of site it would be. That’s Scott Podsenik’s wife by the way, she’s going to love LA and LA’s going to love her…..a long, long time.
Suck it Scott Podsenik!
Also, Suck it Lisa Dergen!
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
HEY MAYBE WE CAN BUILD A PACKAGE FOR DUNN AROUND TIM ALDERSON AND SCOTTY BARNES!
oh……fuck
McCovey Chronicles - The repetition is awesome. Proud Adoptive Parent of BRETT PILL.
READ MY BLOG!!!!
by sadison bummedgarner on Jul 29, 2010 11:29 AM PDT reply actions
I know it's Chasm
There is no way that Nats would give up Dunn for those two in light of the fact they are asking for Bumgarner
Can't believe I had never seen these before
But “Between 2 Ferns with Zach Galafiansenakiaskdja” is incredibly hilarious.
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ed36fa1ab6/between-two-ferns-with-zach-galifianakis-steve-carell
the charlize theron one is better
McCovey Chronicles - The repetition is awesome. Proud Adoptive Parent of BRETT PILL.
READ MY BLOG!!!!
by sadison bummedgarner on Jul 29, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
this
among the funniest people on the planet when hes not doing movies
by ThisIsMyNightmare on Jul 29, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
still want to see dinner for schmucks
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
oh yea, i think his movies are funny as hell, but they don’t hold a candle to his standup
by ThisIsMyNightmare on Jul 29, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I always felt like a bit of an outcast for not finding the one man wolfpack speech funny. Well, not “always”. Just for the last few months, since I saw it.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
are you saying you thought of yourself as a loner then? or a one man wolfpack? Could it be that your wolfpack speech hating wolfpack has grown by one?
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
It’s possible.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I prefer the drunk history series to between 2 ferns.
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis who is stuck in the baseball purgatory called extended spring training.
Jen Kirkman!!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 29, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
OldHossRadbourn
Dear Sen. Bunning, I am not impressed by your inability to complete 368 of your 519 starts. Ouch, my arm! Yrs, Hoss (488 CG, 502 S).
man we don’t make pitchers the way they used to, do we?
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Doesn’t throwing off a mound, and pitching since you were 8 years old and other various factors I’m too tired to think of have something to do with the fragility of today’s pitchers.
Back in the dinosaur days when I was a kid the athletes played ALL the sports. Football/soccer in the fall, basketball in the winter and baseball in the spring. They avoided repetitive use injuries that way, or so the story goes. Kids these days tend to concentrate on only one sport…
Get off my gridiron!
Check out Candy Cummings’s age 26 season.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jul 29, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Big storm here in DC
If xanathan stops posting, it means a tree fell on the powerline that provides juice to his circuits.
My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.
That stupid tree was probably a Republican too!
On second thought, maybe it was a Tea Partier.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Important OT:
Theo Albrecht, the secretive co-founder of Germany’s worldwide discount supermarket chain Aldi, a co-owner of Trader Joe’s in the United States and one of Europe’s richest men, has died at age 88.
RIP
I have never been to an Aldi, but I passed one the other day in Allentown.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I realized the other day that the Chinese food in trader joes is actually “Trader Ming’s”
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 29, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, I’m sorry you were in Allentown.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, it makes sense that Allentown had an Aldi.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Slight OT: Yahoo/Forbes lists the worst deadline trades in MLB
Surprise to see this:
Then there are the 2005 San Francisco Giants, who made a deadline deal with the Seattle Mariners in which they gave up talented young catcher Yorvit Torrealba(notes) for outfielder Randy Winn(notes), who had three-plus years and $29 million left on his contract. Winn, a corner outfielder, never drove in more than 65 runs for the Giants, who finished 75-87 that year and failed to make the postseason during Winn’s tenure. Sometimes, it’s just better to sit tight.
Talented catcher Torrealba? Really…
Winn was never a RBI guy…more a multi-tool guy…he also put these stats after the trade
.359 Avg, 391. OPB, .680 SLG and 1.071 OPS 14 Hrs, 26 RBIs…
Seriously, how do people get paid to write this bullshit?
by itlynstalyn on Jul 29, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Classless article is classless
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
by McCoven on Jul 29, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
It's also wrong
Winn didn’t have anything left on his contract, we re-signed him after 2005.
I was promised lasagna.
Just going off memory, wasn’t that 3+ years, $29M left because we extended him after he tore shit up for us right after we traded him? Then he wasn’t all that good next year, but bounced back to be a good player overall and great value…..
And the point of a deadline deal is to bolster your team now. Winn tore shit up when we acquired him! How is that bad?
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
YAHOO?
MORE LIKE YAPOO!!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jul 29, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I would give up Kieschnick OR Wheeler+
dont think Id give up Neal though. I still believe in him.
Its funny because fuck the dodgers
I don’t want to give up either one, Neal or Wheeler, but if I had to choose between the two, it’d be Neal. I think Wheeler is awesome, and I bought his auto rookie card. I want it to be worth more. I don’t have Neal’s card.
Sounds like good enough reasoning to me…
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions
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