How to ruin a farm system (Or: Be grateful for Sabean)
by GiantPain on Jul 29, 2010 8:54 AM PDT
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PrintThe following is a list of Baseball America's list of the Philadelphia Phillies top 10 prospects in 2009:
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1. |
Domonic Brown, of |
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2. |
Carlos Carrasco, rhp |
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3. |
Lou Marson, c |
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4. |
Jason Donald, ss |
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5. |
Kyle Drabek, rhp |
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6. |
Michael Taylor, of |
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7. |
Travis D'Arnaud, c |
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8. |
Zach Collier, of |
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9. |
J.A. Happ, lhp |
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10. |
Jason Knapp, rhp |
Now, a list of where these players are now:
1) In the majors
2) To the Indians for Cliff lee
3) To the Indians for Cliff Lee
4) To the Indians for Cliff Lee
5) To the Jays for Roy Halladay
6) Traded to the Jays for Roy Halladay
7) Traded to the Jays for Roy Halladay
8) Still in Phillies org
9) Rumored to be going to Astros for Roy Oswalt
10) To the Indians for Cliff Lee
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1. Buster Posey – in majors
2. Madison Bumgarner – in majors
That’s all we need to know. Thanks, Brian!
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Hey sorry, but Brian fucked up the Posey situation as much as possible.
"We didn't win our independence from the British to watch Aaron Rowand hit this bad,"-KNBR caller.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jul 29, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
On the other hand, that was a pretty mediocre Top 10 (when Lou Marson’s your 3rd best prospect, you have issues) and they held onto the best of the group. Really, had they not inexplicably threw Cliff Lee away, I’d say they would have gotten outstanding production out of that list. 6 years of Dom Brown, 2 of prime Cliff Lee and 1+ an inside track on signing Roy Halladay? That’s a hell of a lot of value.
OT: The minors right now are probably at one of the most low-ebb talent moments I can remember in recent memory. The last three years has just seen a tidal rush of talent to the majors. This year alone I’m guessing that something close to 17 or the Top 20 prosepcts in baseball at the start of the season are now in the majors. So ironically, now that there is probably less talent in the upper minors then there’s been for maybe a decade, we’re hearing that team’s are suddenly unwilling to move prospects in deadline deals. Of course, the highest ranked prospect remaining in the minors (Jesus Montero) is the one guy who keeps popping up in rumors. Interesting.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
This
If Amaro hadn’t dealt Lee, I think he would be commended for his shrewd deals, I still think there was something at work there that is unkown in regards to Lee because even Sabean isn’t that stupid. But the vacuum of talent in the high minors is amazing, you couldn’t field an entire team with the number of prospects that are close and I think you will start to see players being rushed to the majors, also I think it will put college talent at a premium in next year’s draft.
Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand
by Giant Torture on Jul 29, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
At least be fair and include the guys they got back when they traded Cliff Lee. Honestly, ahd the Phillies held on to Lee, I think it would have been a justifiable strategy.
+1
The Phillies didn’t exactly get a big haul from dealing Lee to the Mariners, especially considering what they gave up for him just a couple of months previously. The Mariners sent them Phillippe Aumont (RHP – 21.6 years old), Tyson Gillies (OF – 21.8 years old) and JC Ramirez (RHP – 21.11 years old).
All 3 would probably be considered to be in the top-5 of Phiillies prospects now, but none of them are having great years in the minors in 2010. Aumont was horrible in the AA Eastern League the first 2 months of the season, and was demoted to A+ Clearwater – where he’s been stinking it up. Gillies, probably the biggest disappointment, was only putting up a .601 OPS in the Eastern League after the first 2 months of the season, and he’s sustained some type of injury that has only allowed him to play in 2 games since the end of May. Ramirez has been the most successful of the 3 this year. He pitched well enough in Clearwater to get promoted to AA at the end of June. His first month in the EL has been average at best.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I would much much much rather go to the World Series 2 years in a row than have a good farm system
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jul 29, 2010 9:23 AM PDT reply actions
This
Their major league team looks pretty darn good.
The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.
Actually they have a ton of talent in Lakeland this year, too. They’ve got nothing in between Low A ball and the majors, which isn’t good. But still…
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
The world series teams were not built by Ruben Amaro
He inherited the WS team and is squandering the franchise’s future..
My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.
As I say, there just wasn’t much there that was of value to the future, and he kept what was far and away the best talent in that group. He turned Drabek into at least one year of Halladay. He turned frankly a bunch of crap into Cliff Lee. It was trading Lee away that was the bad move.
And, if Brown hadn’t just graduated to the majors I think I could guarantee you that the Phillies Top 10 this coming winter would have been superior to the one you listed above. Even without Brown it will close.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Amaro’s other problem is that he’s sitting on a ticking time bomb of salary problems that will explode in the Phillies’s faces in about 2 years. The Howard contract extension was incredibly horrible, and will hamstring them going forward. They’ll lose Werth at the end of this season (though we have to assume that Dom Brown will replace him without too much of a drop), and most likely they won’t be able to re-sign both Rollins and Cole Hamels after the 2011 season. Just whent they need cheap, home-grown replacements their cupboard looks extremely bare.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Next year actually. I don’t know how they’re going to fill out the 25 man roster.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Wonder if the Giants can snag Jimmy Rollins for next year to provid the Phils a little salary relief…
I’d rather not…
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 30, 2010 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I would take Hamels and give them Sanchez and Neal though
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 30, 2010 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, the Howard extension was about as bad of GM’ing as you can do.
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
So, you’re saying it’s Sabean’s turn to top that next? I shudder.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Nah, we already have Barry Zito, so we’ve met our quota of terribly awful contract that was obviously way too much at the time….
by Missing Barry on Jul 29, 2010 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions
If you win a world series does that validate trading away your youngsters? I’d say yes, I’d rather win the title than watch a decent team with Thomas Neal for the next six years. If the Phillies win the world series (which I doubt because the Cliff Lee trade was god awful) they are validated
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Jul 29, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
If Singleton is headed to the Stros as well, their system will be even worse
but they’re in a win-now era and have the talent to do it, so why not go for it.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 29, 2010 9:46 AM PDT reply actions
I really thought this would be about the Dodgers
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jul 29, 2010 9:51 AM PDT reply actions
2011
15 players under contract for 134M. Holy shit.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
yeah br00tal
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Jul 29, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Ruben Amaro is a bad GM.
Lucky enough to inherit a WS roster.
"We didn't win our independence from the British to watch Aaron Rowand hit this bad,"-KNBR caller.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jul 29, 2010 5:27 PM PDT reply actions
2, 3, 4 and 6 are over hyped prospects.
1 is going to be Pablo Sandovaled (not ROY eligible for this or next year)
5 and 7 could be special, really really special.
9 and 10 are injured pitching prospects. Knapp is suppose to be good but he is 19 and already been injured and Happ is 27 and is struggling.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 30, 2010 11:04 AM PDT reply actions
Just wondering (because I’ve seen comments like this a few times lately), but regarding your second comment, why would anybody care at all about a player’s ROY eligibility. I just can’t imagine any kind of scenario at all where this could legitimately factor into a decision on bringing a player to the majors.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
It certainly shouldn't
And I don’t think it does very much. But as a fan, I care about players’ ROY eligibility, because I want outside validation of the success of my team’s young players. And the Rookie of the Year award is the best when it comes to outside validation.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to do that (TM)
It doesn’t. I was just commenting on the type of year/player I think he is going to have/be.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jul 30, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I have to give kudos to Amaro on the Oswalt deal
He really flleeced the Astros on that one, IMO. He gets 1.5 yearsof Roy Oswalt plus $10M, for a back-of-the-rotation starter and a prospect who’s probable ceiling is that of Willie Bloomquist in CF.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
They did get Brett Wallace out of the deal, so that’s something.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
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