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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

minor lines, 7/23/10

Friday highlights from the Giants' farm: Jorge Bucardo faced the minimum 24 batters in 8.0 IP, Thomas Neal and Brad Boyer homered while having three hits each, Jesus Guzman also homered while reaching base three times, and Ryan Lollis homered and singled.   Also notable, Brandon Belt doubled twice as part of his three hits, and Francisco Peguero had another three-hit night.

Star-divide

AAA: Fresno lost Reno 9-5

Fresno: RF John Bowker: 3 for 4
Fresno: LF-1B Jesus Guzman: 1 for 3, HR, 2 BB
Fresno: 1B Brett Pill: 0 for 4, 3 SO
Reno: C John Hester: 2 for 3, HR, 2B, BB, IBB, SO

Fresno: SP Matt Yourkin: 4.0+ IP, 8 H, 6 R, 5 ER, 4 BB, 3 K--1 HR, 1 IBB, 1 E
Fresno: RP Henry Sosa: 2.0 IP, 4 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 3 BB, 1 K--2 HR

Guzman had his 13th HR while reaching base three times.  Bowker's three singles accounted for nearly half of the Grizzlies' seven hits.  With the oh-fer that included the hat trick, Pill's AVG in July is just .176, which has lowered his season AVG to .272 and OBP to .318.  Hester, who has played in 20 games for the Diamondbacks earlier this year, had a big game with his 5th HR and 11th double that helped his raise his PCL OPS to nearly 1.100.

Yourkin had been the Grizzlies' ace recently with just 6 ER over his previous five starts, but he was fairly ineffective in this start.  Sosa made his fifth relief appearance since leaving the Grizzlies' rotation.  This was his least effective of those appearances.  Since leaving the rotation at the end of June, he has 11 H, 6 BB, and 8 K in 13.0 IP with a 2.77 ERA.

AA: Richmond defeated Bowie 14-4
(after leading 10-2 through three innings)

Richmond: LF Thomas Neal: 3 for 5, HR, HBP, SO
Richmond: 1B Brandon Belt: 3 for 5, 2 2B, SO
Richmond: DH Brad Boyer: 3 for 4, HR, BB
Bowie: RF Joel Guzman: 2 for 5, 2 HR, SO, GiDP

Richmond: SP Craig Westcott: 6.0 IP, 9 H, 4 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 3 K--3 HR, 1 HB, 1 WP
Richmond: RP Andy Sisco: 3.0 IP, 1 H, 2 BB, 5 K

With three hits each, Neal, Belt and Boyer accounted for over half of the Flying Squirrels' sixteen hits.  In the 1st inning, Boyer had his 1st HR; and in the 9th inning, Neal added his 9th HR.  Belt had his 3rd and 4th doubles since being promoted to the upper minors.  Belt, who had had just three hits over his previous five games, now has a .371/.429/.700 line in 70 AB since his promotion.  Guzman, the 26-year-old former top prospect of the Dodgers who is now with the Orioles, had his 21st and 22nd HRs.

Westcott had the unusual line with more HRs and ERs (which arguably shows one of the flaws with determining which runs are "earned").  He had yielded just 2 HRs over his previous three starts.  In his four Eastern League starts, he still has yet to allowed more than 2 ER.  Sisco struck out five of his twelve batters for his 1st save.

A+: San Jose lost to High Desert 5-3
(with all but one run in the game scored in the 6th inning)

San Jose: CF Francisco Peguero: 3 for 4, 3B, SB
San Jose: C Johnny Monell: 1 for 4, HR
High Desert: 3B Eddy Martinez-Esteve: 2 for 4, 2B, SO

San Jose: SP Ryan Verdugo: 3.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 3 BB, 4 K

Peguero remains red hot for the Giants, with three more hits raising his AVG to .317.  He also had his 36th SB.  Monell had his 10th HR, with half that total coming this month when he has hit .377/.462/.649 in 77 AB.  EME, the 27-year-old ex-Giants prospect, has hit .370/.417/.493 through 138 AB since joining the Mariners organization.

A bullpen game?  Verdugo pitched 3.0 scoreless, hitless IP in the first start of his pro career after 60 career relief appearances.  He was the scheduled starter.

A-: Augusta defeated Greensboro 6-1

Augusta: DH Nick Liles: 3 for 4, BB, SO, SB
Augusta: RF Ryan Lollis: 2 for 4, HR, SO
Greensboro: C Kyle Skipworth: 0 for 3, 3 SO

Augusta: SP Jorge Bucardo: 8.0 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 6 K
Augusta: RP Zach Wheeler: 1.0 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 1 ER--1 WP
Greensboro: SP Chad James: 3.1 IP, 4 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 3 BB, 3 K--1 WP

Leading off, Liles reached base four times, raising his OBP to .363.  He also had his 20th SB (against 7 CS).  Lollis had his 2nd HR.  He also had 2 HRs last year in the NWL.  After beginning the series with the Olympic rings (5 SO in 5 AB), Skipworth, whom the Marlins selected sixth overall two years ago, got the hat trick in just three plate appearances to end the series.  He did have a couple multi-hit games in between, though.

Bucardo had perhaps the best start of his career, allowing three hits but facing the minimum 24 batters in 8.0 IP.  Wheeler, the Giants' top prospect in the minors, was not able to finish the shutout.  Bucardo and Wheeler combined for an 18/2 GO/FO line.  James, whom the Marlins selected eighteenth overall last year, had one of his shorter starts of the year.  He has a 4.40 through sixteen starts.

ssA: Salem-Keizer defeated Everett 6-4

Salem-Keizer: Chris Lofton: 2 for 4, BB, SO, 2 CS
Salem-Keizer: LF Ryan Scoma: 2 for 3, 3B, 2B, 2 BB

Salem-Keizer: SP Kevin Couture: 5.0+ IP, 8 H, 4 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 1 K
Salem-Keizer: RP Jake Dunning: 3.0 IP, 2 H, 5 K

Scoma, the Giants' 36th round selection out of UC Davis a year ago, reached base in all four plate appearances, including his 1st triple and 9th double.  Hitting .328/.382/.464 through 125 AB, he has been perhaps the Volcanoes' best hitter this year.  Lofton, the Giants' ninth rounder this year, reached base three times, but he has also been caught stealing four times in the last three games.  He now has a 8/4 SB/CS line through his first 22 pro games.

Couture had another effective start, despite just 1 K.  He had a 10/3 GO/FO line as his ERA remains below 3.50  Dunning continues to pile up the strikeouts, this time striking out five of his eleven batters.

R: Giants defeated Cubs 5-1

Scottsdale: 2B Carlos Willoughby: 3 for 4, 3B, SO
Scottsdale: RF Rafael Rodriguez: 2 for 3, BB, CS

Scottsdale: SP Lorenzo Mendoza: 2.0 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 1 K
Scottsdale: RP Kendry Flores: 2.0 IP, 1 H, 1 K

Raf-Rod, presumably the top prospect on the rookie Giants squad, reached base three times.  Willoughby, who had his 3rd triple, was one of two other rookie Giants with two hits each.

After the rookie Giants had not played in a couple days, Mendoza and Flores, who both have been members of the rotation this year, each pitched a couple scoreless innings before five relievers were given an inning each.

DSL: Giants defeated Marlins 7-5

Dominican: C Luis Vasquez: 2 for 4, HR, 2B, SO
Dominican: SP Luis Angeles: 5.0 IP, 6 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 3 BB, 7 J--1 HR, 1 WP

Vasquez (19.4 y.o.) had his 2nd and 5th double, helping to get both his OBP and SLG above .400 through 85 AB.  Angeles (20.7 y.o.) had his second straight sub-par start, raising his ERA to 2.86.

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Neal: Getting Real.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jul 24, 2010 2:10 PM PDT reply actions  

Belt: Also Real.

Jeaaaggaahh

by Soulbrother16 on Jul 24, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Svelte.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jul 24, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

.328 ISO.

Small sample be damned, that’s just purty.

by wcw on Jul 24, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Surreal Neal: Super(on the)Diamond.

by tannic on Jul 25, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

EME at 3B? Odd

Nice to see Neal & Belt doing well.

Peguero seems to be heating up with the weather.

I can’t see Pill sticking on the 40 man this offseason.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jul 24, 2010 2:11 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

He's also been playing a lot of 1B this year.

The Giants are often being accused of stuffing their farm teams with over-aged, non-prospects, but I don’t see how the Mariners can justify EME in A+ ball after he had a .773 and .807 OPS the last 2 years in AA.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

he’s pretty much organizational filler at this point. But if he’s playing positions he hasn’t played before, or at least a very long time, that could explain why he’s in A+.

Bonds stands alone.

Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants

by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 24, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Have the Giants been accused of this? It’s a weird a accusation.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 24, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jul 24, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've heard it a few times

Mostly talking about how winning minor league championships doesn’t equal a great minor league system.

by marcello on Jul 24, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s not criticism, though.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 24, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

You missed what happened this spring. The NWL revamped their league rules to allow for a 1st half and 2nd half champ in each division champ (previously they only went by full-season records). The teams in S-K’s division were the main ones pushing for this. One of the things they pointed to was the Giants stacking the roster with inappropriately-aged veterans, which allowed them to build huge leads before the other team’s younger kids could get their feet wet in pro ball. I’m don’t agree with it, but it’s out there. I’ve also read several reports from journalists and pundits the past few years stating that the Giants populate their teams with players that are older than the league averages – implying that it was a deliberate effort to win league championships.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, I thought you meant from fans.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 24, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

So this is also a way to expand their playoffs too I take it. I noticed the NWL regular season ends a few days earlier than usual this season too.

I haven’t kept up with exact NWL rules, but as I recall, one league rule at least used to be no more than three players on the roster who are 23 years old or older. A few years ago one team did file a protest with the league’s office that one of the teams in the league was not in compliance with the rule (although neither team involved was Salem-Keizer).

by steve S on Jul 25, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ironically, it looks like the result of that change will be to give SK a chance to make the playoffs that they otherwise aren’t likely to have had this season.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 25, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh and Bucardo is awesome

Get Wheeler into the rotation

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jul 24, 2010 2:11 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Is there a reason we know about that explains why he is being used in relief?

Sometimes, there's a man...well, he's the man for his time and place.

by I'm_a_Man on Jul 24, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

He must be on a very strict pitch count because Augusta’s beat guy tweeted the other day that he was taken out after 2/3 of an inning because he’d already hit his pitch limit. I assume it has to do with all the missed time. I’d link but I can’t figure out how to copy the tweet link on my iPhone but its Billy Bylef.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 24, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know...

If it were just about missed time, you’d think that they’d let him start every 5th day, and slowly let him pitch more and more innings. That’s not what they’re doing – he’s pitching every couple of days, always as a reliever, and never more than 1 inning.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 24, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I heard

that Belt left in the 9th because of an apparent injury. Can anyone verify this?

My love for Buster Posey isn't unhealthy. Or at least that's what I keep telling myself. Check out my Giants blog here. And follow me on Twitter.

by 8thInningWeirdness on Jul 24, 2010 2:13 PM PDT reply actions  

this says mildly sprained wrist

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/sports/pro-sports/2010/jul/24/squi24-ar-348785/

D:

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jul 24, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tendons flapping in the breeze.

by Grant Brisbee on Jul 24, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sometimes you make me cry.

by Dan from NM on Jul 24, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Untradable!!!

The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent

by hokysmksbw on Jul 24, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank God

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry

by jctGamer on Jul 24, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

He needs to tell his wrist to calm down

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jul 24, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not a team player.

by nataku on Jul 24, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait so not all of our prospect hit home runs after they hurt their wrist? BUST!

"He knocks a stake through the heart of the Cardinals! The Cardinals are dead! The Giants are going to the World Series!!!" -Jon Miller

t's Posey time!!

Tim Flannery: Make better decisions dammit.

by sanfrankid on Jul 24, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bucardo to AA soon?

Or is it pretty much too late?

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jul 24, 2010 3:30 PM PDT reply actions  

If htey do promote him, which I doubt, he’d go to SJ in A+.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's what I meant!

Stupid me

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jul 24, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Since the Little Giants are starting relievers these days, they should promote Bucardo. Perhaps Verdugo is being stretched into a starter. He looked fine for the three innings he pitched (watched Friday game on Comcast, which showed it Saturday night).

by APGiantsFan on Jul 25, 2010 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Skipworth

He also had an 0-5, 5K night to start the 4-game series – he’s striking out every 3rd AB this year (32.5%).. If the Marlins could have just lost a fiew more games in 2007, they could have had Posey at #5.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 3:31 PM PDT reply actions  

Wouldn’t the signing bonus have increased their budget by like 33% or 50% that year?

co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
"Because I don’t know what it means anymore, in the PCL. It’s almost like years ago."
"That’s not to say Buster isn’t fully committed or all-in. He is. He’s smart and he’s got the advance reports. Anybody who said he’s not ready to catch in the big leagues is crazy because he’s a pretty good catcher, especially throwing." - Sabean 7/11/10

by kennv on Jul 24, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, didn’t think about that. They may have had to DFA the entire outfield to pay Buster’s outrageous demands.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Willoughby

Carlos the Jackal also had 3 RBI from the leadoff spot, but you gave him credit for 3 hits when he actually only had 2.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 3:43 PM PDT reply actions  

Reinier Roibal

The 20 year old Cuban is Reinier-rific! He’s got a k/9 of 16.2 after 2 appearances. Okay, it may be too small of a sample size to get excited about, but it’s never too early to dream.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 3:51 PM PDT reply actions  

Looks like Roibal’s 21 by his listed DOB.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 24, 2010 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

and the walks are high, too..

by wcw on Jul 24, 2010 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Raf-Rod, presumably the top prospect on the rookie Giants squad, reached base three times.

Way to go Raffy! However, I believe that, at a minimum, 18 year old Chuckie Jones (who’s actually 2 weeks younger than RafRod) and 19 year old Jose De La Cruz have to be rated better prospects that RafRod at this point.

Check out these 3 pics of RafRod.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joepun/4797901845/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joepun/4016295742/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joepun/4015531783/
He’s got almost no muscles in his legs and butt. He’s never going to be a major leaguer until he adds some mucle to his frame, and he won’t hit for any power until he strengthens his lower body. I look at these pictures and I finally see why he has yet to hit for any power in his pro career. Memo to Bobby Evans and BS – somebody please get the kid into an intense, supervised weight training program that has him lifting weights 5 times a week! And start getting him to eat some form of protein 5 times a day.

Compare RafRod’s physique to Chuckie’s (below), they’re basically the same age, but one looks like a grown man and the other like an Ethiopian starvation survivor:
Chuckie Jones smashes the ball

Kudos to Joe Pun at http://azgiants.com for the great pics.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 4:20 PM PDT reply actions  

True, but their bodies will almost certainly change a lot by the time they get close to the bigs (assuming they do get close).

by Dan from NM on Jul 24, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is his 2nd summer in the USA. There’s no excuse for the Giants not to have gotten him into a serious weight training program beginning last spring.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ted Williams scoffs at your weight training regimen.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 25, 2010 5:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jose De La Cruz?

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 24, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

JDLC!

He turned 19 three months ago. After hitting .301/.353/.404/.757 as an 18 year old in the DSL last year, he is currently the AZL Giants hottest hitter, and In his first season on American soil is hitting .368/.400/.509/.909

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Any scouting reports? Rookie league stats don’t mean that much, especially in such a small sample. Rodriguez was considered one of the best Latin FA’s around just two years ago, and is still only 18 years old.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 24, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also

Rodriguez’s numbers as a 16 year old in his first time in Arizona were about as good as de la Cruz’s numbers as an 18 year old repeating the DSL, so really, the 50 good PA’s he’s had this year are the only advantage de la Cruz has over Rodriguez.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 24, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Slugging and growth

The difference is that De La Cruz has shown a steady growth in almost all of his stats in both of his pro seasons (month-to-month and year-to-year) while RafRod has regressed this year, and shown almost no ability to hit for power in either year. His only XBHs last year were 8 doubles in 144 ABs, and this year he has only 1 double, 1 triple and 1 HR in 67 ABs. Beyond that, RafRod has shown no signs of being able to add muscle and bulk since he’s been a Giant, while DLC has been growing and adding mucle to his frame.

In DLC’s 3 full months in the DSL last year (June, July and August, his slugging and OPS went up each month: .111/.384 to .371/.695 to .423/.745. This year he’s stepped it up once again: .509/.909 in his first 16 games

To top it off, according to multiple eyewitness reports from RichH in Oregon, RafRod looked lackadaisical, apathetic, and just plain physically slow in the field, on the basepaths and at the plate this year in Salem.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe I’m way off here, but I think you might be the only person on the planet who thinks De La Cruz is a better prospect than RafRod, if that is, indeed what you’re positing.

Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.

by tedfordfan on Jul 24, 2010 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Admit it, RafRod has been an embarassing bust, so far. He was supposed to be a 4-tool talent, and he has yet to display more than 1 tool in his pro career. Yep, I’m rating JDLC ahead of him as a prospect.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 25, 2010 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Allow me a small value judgement here, but writing off an 18 year old with less than 100 pro games experience as a bust when he’s been dealing with an injury after he had a very, very respectable first season as a 17 year old in a foreign country is just plain stupid.

I’ll even grant you that Rich is utterly credible when he says he’s seen him multiple times and has been utterly underwhelmed.

He’s 18. In five years he’ll be as old as Buster Posey. That’s a long time, and a lot can change over that period – including basic attitudes. He clearly has a lot of work to do. But he also has a ton of potential. And quite frankly, he’s already produced much more than I was expecting to date with his season in the AZ league last year – a year when almost all other prospects his age are put in the DSL. If you were expecting him to continue up the ladder without hitches or injuries while 4-5 years younger than his competition, i’m afraid you have very unrealistic expectations.

Felipe Alou singled out Rodriguez as a player and his recommendation, in part, prompted the Giants to give him a $2.5 Million signing bonus. When asked earlier this year who the best prospect in the Giants system was, Felipe singled out Peguero, who (finally healthy) is having a great year and is in the conversation for the Giants’ top prospect (according to Baseball America in their last Prospect Hot Sheet chat). So, even though I hated the way Felipe managed the team, I think he’s demonstrating that he has a pretty good eye for talent – which is another reason I’m willing to give Rodriguez the benefit of the doubt.

I’m not willing to give De La Cruz the same benefit based on his results because the further away from the majors you are the less results matter and the more scouting comes into play because these guys are so much projection.

Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.

by tedfordfan on Jul 25, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

2 things

1. I’m not saying that we should write off RafRod as a bust forever – you’ll notice I used the term “so far”. You’re 100% correct that he’s still very young and has many years left to prove himself. I hope that he does become a superstar (although I doubt he will). That being said, for all the hype that his signing generated, his play on the field has in no way supported the hype. He was supposed to be a 4-tool player at minimum (with the only quetionable tool being coud he hit for average), and at he age of 18 he has yet to display that he has any tool besides the ability to hit for a (age-dependent) decent average. He hasn’t displayed a strong arm, fast baserunning, raw power, or good D – and those are all tools that, while raw, should be evident every time that he steps on the field. Think back to AnVil, with all of his faults, there was no doubt what tools that he posessed whenever he stepped up to the plate – even when he was 16 years old.

2. Read my post below to see why I say that the scouts and evaluators that know DLC best, the Giants, obviously think very, very highly of his prospects, or they would not have aggressivel promoted him to the AZL this summer and handed him the starting LF job ahead of older and more well-known prospects.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 25, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

He hasn’t displayed a strong arm, fast baserunning, raw power, or good D – and those are all tools that, while raw, should be evident every time that he steps on the field.

You’ve obviously read a lot more negative scouting reports on him than I have. I’ve been chalking up his lackluster performance to various small, nagging injuries so far this year. Perhaps I’m wrong and it’s really a symptom of something much worse. We have around 5 years to know for sure.

As for the hype surrounding Rodriguez, it’s pretty much all the signing bonus. He was reported to be extremely raw when he signed and needed a LOT of coaching to develop his talents into useful baseball skills – definitely not considered a prodigy or anything. Which is why I’ve been pleasantly surprised so far with his performance – last year being much better than I would have thought and this year written off due to small sample size and injuries.

Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.

by tedfordfan on Jul 25, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

1. RafRod was fully healthy the first 11 games that he played in S-K to start the year.

2. As I stated previously, tools such as arm strength and speed and raw power are tools that a player either has or doesn’t have. They can be polished and refined with good coaching and experience, but they can’t be learned. When RafRod was signed the hype was that he had those 3 tools, and more. Two summers later, he has yet to display any of the them on US soil,.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 25, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Month to month variations are usually random and meaningless. Pick a random Giant, check his splits. You’ll see he has good months and bad months. There isn’t necessary a story behind them.

Rafael Rodriguez was considered one of the 2-3 best Latin prospects around two years ago. In his first year he hit fairly well as a 16 year old in Rookie League. So far, this season, through 70 PA’s or so, he has been very bad. He hasn’t grown as much people hoped. He’s also 17 years old.

Jose de la Cruz was never considered much of a prospect by anyone, as far as we can tell. I can’t find a single scouting report or anything like it at any major baseball site about him. In his first year, as a 16/17 year old (borderline, technically a 17 year old) in the DSL, de la Cruz hit very poorly. The next year he repeated it, and hit fairly well (but not as well as Rodriguez hit at a higher level). So far, through 60 PA’s, he’s hit well (sort of – he still has 8 K’s to only 1 walk) in Rookie League.

Rodriguez made the top-10 list last year. No one, anywhere, has even mentioned de la Cruz. I think you’re basing way too much of this on an extremely small sample size – if Rodriguez hits a double on his next AB, his SLG will be .524.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 24, 2010 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

First off, you need to get his age straight. RafRod has been 18 since July 14th of this year. If he had been a US-based player, he would have graduated from HS this past spring , so he is in the same class as all of the myriad other 17 and 18 year old kids that are currently populating the rookie leagues this summer. Secondly, RafRod was not a “a 16 year old in Rookie League” last year. His team played 52 games last year, and he was 16 years old for the first 18 games and 17 for the last 34 – that makes it his 17 year old season.

Secondly, I didn’t just cherry-pick some random month to highhlight JDLC’s steady progress. As I noted, he has gotten better in every month thet he has played pro ball – that’s not random at this point.

Thirdly, part of your argument is that RafRod was considered one of the 2-3 best Latin prospects 2 years ago, while DLC has never been considered a top prospect – and you can’t find a single scouting report on him on the internet after 1 year of pro ball in the DSL. That’s just fuzzy logic. Just because RafRod was highly-ranked 2 summers ago, doesn’t mean he’s still a top prospect. Baseball history is full of highly-rated teenagers that signed big bonuses and never amounted ot anything in the majors or minors. Can you find any report or website that has RafRod ranked even in the top 200 prospects at this point in his career? Do you think that the Panda was highly-rated by anybody, or had a scouting report “at any major baseball site about him. In his first year”? What about Sergio Romo, was he highly thought of, and did he have a scouting report after his frist year? Major League Baseball is currently full of players from the Caribbean that weren’t highly-rated and didn’t receive big bonuses when they signed their 1st pro contact – and these guys were also not well-known after their 1st season in the DSL.

If you want to know how highly-rated DLC is, you only have to check with the scouts that know him best. The Giants think very highly of this kid and his future, because they are fast-tracking him from the DSL to Scottsdale after only 1 pro season in the DSL. The Giants don’t just do that willy-nilly wtih their Carribean prospects that weren’t former bonus-babies. They typically make those types of kids spend several seasons in the DSL to prove their worth -especially if they’re not pitchers. This summer they promoted only 7 players (5 pitchers and 2 position players) from last year’s DSL team. The 2 position players were DLC and the 21 year old Carlos Willoghby, who spent 3 seasons in the DSL. Last year they promoted 5 DSL position players: Ydwin Villegas (after 1 year in the DSL), Julio Izturis (after 3 years in the DSL), Hector Sanchez (2 years in the DSL), Sundrendy Windster (2 years in the DSL), and Victor Santana (3 years in the DSL). Even Francisco Peguero (at ages 18 through 19) and Ehire Adrianza (at ages 16 through 18) had to spend 2 years in the DSL before they were promoted to the USA in 2008.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 25, 2010 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

If you want to know how highly-rated DLC is, you only have to check with the scouts that know him best. The Giants think very highly of this kid and his future, because they are fast-tracking him from the DSL to Scottsdale after only 1 pro season in the DSL.

And they skipped RafRod over the DSL entirely and put him directly into the AZ league as a 16/17 year old. So it would seem that you should value RafRod higher than De La Cruz by this logic.

Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.

by tedfordfan on Jul 25, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Apples and oranges

As I clearly stated, bonus-babies are treated differently from, and can’t be compared to, the non-bonus Caribbean players in terms of how they are placed and promoted in the minors. Every team aggresively places their multi-million $$$ prospects. The only Giants prospect that you can clearly compare RafRod to is AnVil – who they also paid a big bonus to and also skipped the DSL with. Let’s compare the 2 of them. For both of them, their first year of pro ball started out at age 16 in the AZL. They both turned 17 during that season – RafRod on July 14th and Anvil on August 13th. AnVil did so well his first year that the Giants promoted him to the NWL iat the end of August. The Giants also promoted several players from the AZL to the NWL last year, but RafRod wasn’t one of them. In his 2nd pro season the Giants still thought so much of AnVil’s performance and growth that they promoted him to Augusta in the full-season Sallie League. He started out slowly, but came on strong in the 2nd half and finished with very respetable stats – and power that was off-the-charts for his age. That was the year he was 17/18 years old. In RafRod’s 17/18 year old season (this year), the Giants tried to start him out in the short-season low A NWL, he performed very poorly, then sustained a minor injury, spent about 2 weeks on the DL, then was demoted back to the AZL for “rehab” that I predict will last all season. Basically the Giants didn’t want to admit that he was overmatched and not improving in the NWL.

So, where do you think that the Giants’ evaluators, behind closed doors, actually rank RafRod? I think that their recent history with high-bonus players proves that they push these types to advanced levels no matter how statistically poor their reslutls are. I point to their handling of guys like Noonan, Fairley, Jax Williams, Culberson, ToJo and Wheeler as primary examples. Obviously, the Giants don’t believe that RafRod has the chops to be pushed like those other bonus-babies.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 25, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

A couple things here: Season age is determined by what age they play the most during the season. The cut off is somewhere around July 1. Officially, Rafrod is playing his age 17 season this year, even though he turned 18 last week. Second, de la Cruz hasn’t been aggressively promoted. To move from the DSL to the AZL at 19 isn’t remotely aggressive; at best it’s standard and at worst conservative. To be really age appropriate on the move from the DSL to AZL a player should probably be 18. 17 (a la Pablo Sandoval) is better. 19 isn’t terribly old, but its not aggressive.

I should say I like de la Cruz a lot, too and am following his progress with a good deal of interest. It’ll be interesting to see if he appears on the AZL top 20 list this fall. That will really tell us what scouts think about his tools.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 25, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

First off, you need to get his age straight. RafRod has been 18 since July 14th of this year

Which makes him a 17 year old by baseball age.

If he had been a US-based player, he would have graduated from HS this past spring , so he is in the same class as all of the myriad other 17 and 18 year old kids that are currently populating the rookie leagues this summer

OK?

Secondly, RafRod was not a "a 16 year old in Rookie League" last year. His team played 52 games last year, and he was 16 years old for the first 18 games and 17 for the last 34 – that makes it his 17 year old season.

That’s the same point as your firstly. And no it doesn’t. Look him up on Baseball Reference if you don’t believe me.

As for thirdly – obviously some non-prospects become prospects later. They do it by succeeding over a long period of time, at an at least semi-high level (say, A ball). Not by hitting reasonably well in 50 AB’s in Rookies league.

The Giants think very highly of this kid and his future, because they are fast-tracking him from the DSL to Scottsdale after only 1 pro season in the DSL.

No, this is just wrong. He spent two years in the DSL, not one. I wrote about it in my comment. And that’s not, in any way, agressive.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 25, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Westcott had the unusual line with more HRs and ERs (which arguably shows one of the flaws with determining which runs are “earned”).

What’s the flaw? Westcott was cruising through a 1-2-3 fifth inning. He got the first 2 batters out without a hitch, the 3rd batter hits a gounder that should have been the 3rd out, but Gillaspie boots it. The next batter up hits a HR and 2 unearned runs scored.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 4:25 PM PDT reply actions  

If I had to guess, I’m thinking Steve’s pointing out that you can really “earn” a run any more emphatically than by hitting a ball out of the park. If not all the HRs are “earned runs” therefore, then you might say, I do not think it means what you think it means.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jul 24, 2010 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Belt on the bench

Keep your fingers crossed that it’s not serious.

Mike Main continues to get hammered in AA – he’s already given up 2 HRs and 4 runs in his first 2 innings tonight.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 4:52 PM PDT reply actions  

So is Jesus Guzman gonna be a Sept call up? Seems like he could have some value as a RHH bat off the bench.

Thing A

"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud

by sam23 on Jul 24, 2010 5:30 PM PDT reply actions  

He’s a real legit prospect. This is the first year that he will ever concentrate fully on pitching. He was a SS in college, who loved to play everyday, but he threw a 89-91 mph FB with sink, so they had him close some games. The Giants drafted him in June 2009 after his junior year in college as a SS, although there were plenty of rumors that he would be moved to the mound eventually. He signed quickly and played about 25 games at SS for Scottsdale, but didn’t impress anybody with his glove or bat (ops=.567). He got in one game at the end of the season as a reliever and pitched 1 inning. This season he has started out in the pen from day 1. He had a very shaky 1st outing in which he gave up 4 hits and 4 runs in 1 inning pitched. Since then he’s been on a roll, giving up only 2 runs and 11 hits in 22 2/3 innings over 9 appearances (including 29 Ks, 4 BBs, and a .66 WHIP & 2.33 GO/AO ratio).

He turned 22 this month, so he’s old for the league, but as I stated above this is his first year as a pitcher. I’d love to see the Giants challenge him by shipping him to Augusta (he’d really benefit from Steve Kline’s tutelage), and moving Jose Casilla up to SJ.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 24, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bowker: too good for AAA

Belt: too good for AA (small sample size be damned!)

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 25, 2010 5:28 AM PDT reply actions  

However, rarely shows he is good enough for The Show.

by APGiantsFan on Jul 25, 2010 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Peguero

Due for a call-up to AA soon? He’s been raking.

Giants best trade option: Bowker for Rowand

by Giant Torture on Jul 25, 2010 6:12 AM PDT reply actions  

He is just fine where he is – he still needs more plate discipline and better pitch selection. A hot streak does not take away from these growth points that are necessary for success at higher levels.

by APGiantsFan on Jul 25, 2010 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

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