Another Stint of Velez
by Count The Rings on Jul 19, 2010 4:45 PM PDT
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PrintWell it's official, Eugenio Velez is once again a San Francisco Giant. It was clear after yesterdays game that the giants were going to have to send down a pitcher as carrying 12 hitters is just not reasonable especially in the NL. I think Joe Martinez was probably the right guy to send down but do we really need more of Eugenio Velez?
As hated as Velez is he is always going to be intriguing to the front office due to his combination of speed and versatility. Currently the Giants only have one guy on the roster that can regularly steal bases so it is nice to have a little more speed on the base paths and it is nice to have another utility guy who can hold his own weight at almost any infield position. With all of this going for him I can understand how Velez would seem like a good candidate for a call up. That would be if he hadn't already had 4 stints in the majors to prove himself and if Bowker wasn't tearing things up in the minors.
Velez now has over 600 at bats in the majors and with his inability to draw a walk and get himself on base like a leadoff man should it just makes no sense to not give Bowker a chance. It would also be nice to have Bowker in the Majors in order to showcase him for a potential deadline deal. I wonder if this is Velez's last chance with the club or will he still be getting called up in september 5 years down the road?
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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I think one issue is that we need infielders. Velez can "play" 2B, so that makes him much more appealing to the FO right now, in conjunction with his "speed"
I personally thought Downs, Rohlinger, or even Burriss shoulda been called up before Velez though.
Welcome back, Baron Pickoff von Ironglove!
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
by EliminateMe on Jul 20, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I recall
…someone here named him Speedy McFuckup. Not the sort of thing I’d say, but I laughed out loud at the sheer appropriateness of it at the time. Let’s hope it’s not as appropriate now. Still, I hope this is his last chance with the Giants.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Ah, it's not such a bad idea
He’s not going to be starting. He’s got a little pop. I’d rather have Bowker, but that would mean DFAing Rowand. And none of us want that . . .
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
yah, but ruh roh: http://twitter.com/hankschulman/status/18950054337
Showcasing has got to be overrated, right?
Particularly these days, when every game is videotaped and/or scouted to death. Who the heck is going to change their mind on a player because of a couple major league appearances? Especially a player with as much track record as Velez.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Seriously?
You think Neukom is showcasing Bochy and Sabean, that would be awesome! What do you think we could get for them, besides the clap?
"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league." -BS
"YOU'RE A PAIN IN MY ASS! STOP BEING THAT" - Mel Gibson
by Giant Torture on Jul 20, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Nolan Ryan: “Say, fellows, assuming this @*$^! deal ever gets done and we actually buy the Rangers, we need to be thinking about a new GM and a new manager. Any ideas?”
Chuck Greenberg: “I’ve been seeing some games on the satellite dish thingy, and I really like the way that Brian Sabine runs things in Frisco. Picked ’im up some real savvy veterans last winter – and he drafted that young hotshot pitcher Matt Bumgardener. I think we should look at Sabine for GM.”
Nolan Ryan: “Chuck, I swear, if you didn’t have the money….”
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Only incompetent fools
See above comment
"You can always recover from the player you didn't sign. You may never recover from the player you signed at the wrong price." --Billy Beane
"I am not an idiot."--Brian Sabean
by Sabean's_Folly on Jul 20, 2010 5:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm thinking Ishi and Schierholtz. . .
. . . are currently being showcased. Maybe Sabean couldn’t get the Royals to bite on JMartinez; maybe KC is wondering if they want Velez included in a package for DeJesus and asked the Giants to bring him up.
by betterthanbochy on Jul 20, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Showcasing Velez?
Gonna need a whole lot of Windex to clean all the fail off that showcase.
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
by EliminateMe on Jul 20, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
We don't want that?
Did I miss something?
"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league." -BS
"YOU'RE A PAIN IN MY ASS! STOP BEING THAT" - Mel Gibson
by Giant Torture on Jul 20, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
The only value that I can even fathom Velez having is that he’s got some speed. I don’t see him being any better than Burriss or Bowker, but I don’t see him being much worse either. Face it, the Giants just don’t have anyone great to bring up right now.
Judy Steffes would like a word with you, outside.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
If we wanted a defensive replacement who can steal bases, Burriss is the better choice. He is a better baserunner, can play second and SS decently, and… well, thats more than Velez can do. We have enough OFs.
Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jul 19, 2010 6:26 PM PDT reply actions
If F Sanchez hits any worse I would mind giving Velez a shot at second. Sorry, that’s an over-reaction. I’m just really down on Freddie these days. .270 with no power or speed isn’t cutting it.
Batting Champion Gamer!
"You can always recover from the player you didn't sign. You may never recover from the player you signed at the wrong price." --Billy Beane
"I am not an idiot."--Brian Sabean
by Sabean's_Folly on Jul 20, 2010 5:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Grizzly Grittiness
"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league." -BS
"YOU'RE A PAIN IN MY ASS! STOP BEING THAT" - Mel Gibson
by Giant Torture on Jul 20, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I was feeling pretty good about the Giants
All my rage was focused at umpires and Dodgers and I was feeling good about our place in the standings.
Now, my anger is back where it belongs—on Sabean.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jul 19, 2010 6:53 PM PDT reply actions
I'm in this line
But then again, I live here.
"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league." -BS
"YOU'RE A PAIN IN MY ASS! STOP BEING THAT" - Mel Gibson
by Giant Torture on Jul 20, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
This is random, but why don't the Giants have Ishikawa learn how to play another position
he’s been very good hitting wise and only has 70 something at bats. At least get him some starts at first.
I'm not going defend Velez anymore, but...
Velez now has over 600 at bats in the majors and with his inability to draw a walk and get himself on base like a leadoff man should it just makes no sense to not give Bowker a chance.
Bowker has over 500 big-league PAs and has a career OBP that’s 18 points less than Velez. I think Velez had very little value to add to this team, but arguing that Bowker hasn’t been given any chance and Velez has isn’t entirely true.
As said above, since whoever gets called up is at the end of the bench, I guess they went with Velez’ “ability” to play infield. I would have gone with Downs, myself.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
1B is in the infield.
Also, I believe Bowker has a much better established track record of hitting in the high minors, while also being younger.
I’m just bringing it up, I know you’re not trying to make a VELEZ BETTER THAN BOWKER statement.
Eugenio Velez: Really fast... at getting picked off. SICK BURN!!
Consistency
Velez was pretty much given the starting job last year out of spring training, and unlike Bowker, Bork kept him in there consistently. Bowker started for a few weeks and then got the hook. Young players especially need consistent at-bats, but also need to know that their manager/team is behind them. The amount of pressure on a young player is enormous and if he believes that if has a couple of bad days in a row he’ll be back in Fresno it’s going to affect their play. Bork not only had the reputation of sticking with grizzly gamery vets in San Diego, but also of not supporting his young players.
Couple other things: Bowker actually only has 475 AB’s in the majors not over 500. Also, Bowker is over a year younger than Velez and hits dingerz! Also worth noting Velez has exactly 666 plate appearances.
"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league." -BS
"YOU'RE A PAIN IN MY ASS! STOP BEING THAT" - Mel Gibson
by Giant Torture on Jul 20, 2010 5:02 AM PDT up reply actions
You're right..
Somehow I read that AB’s not PA’s.
"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league." -BS
"YOU'RE A PAIN IN MY ASS! STOP BEING THAT" - Mel Gibson
by Giant Torture on Jul 20, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
i’d rather have martinez in the OF than velez.
Eugenio Velez: Really fast... at getting picked off. SICK BURN!!
I’m in this line.
"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league." -BS
"YOU'RE A PAIN IN MY ASS! STOP BEING THAT" - Mel Gibson
by Giant Torture on Jul 20, 2010 5:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Options
Burriss has used 2 options already, IIRC. So it could make sense for Burriss to spend this year in Fresno. That way, next year he can still shuttle between the big club and the Griz.
I kind of expected Downs to be brought up first, for more competent infield D when giving Freddy S and the other veterans the day off, or maybe Rohlinger. Apparently, the main point is that Bochy has a real thing for lefty batters as late game pinch hitters. I’m hoping my son contributes some clutch play for us.
proud, yes I said proud, adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez
I believe…don’t quote me on this..but if a player is on the 40-man roster he needs to be optioned to AAA to start the season, no matter what. Whether he starts in the majors or not he is still “optioned” and uses one of his option years.
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Go Roger Kieschnick! And son, please continue to break scoreboards on your way to San Francisco.
I believe…don’t quote me on this..but if a player is on the 40-man roster he needs to be optioned to AAA to start the season, no matter what. Whether he starts in the majors or not he is still "optioned" and uses one of his option years.
WalrusMan July 20, 2010
Ha ha. i quoted you on that
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
This is correct. Burriss is using an option year this year, so I think that he will be out of options next year. Probably he could be DFA’d and not be claimed, but that’s no certainty. I mean, teams keep grabbing Bocock.
But only for a short time
Once squeezed every last drop of usefulness out of Bocock, they let him go
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
wasn't there a case?
maybe Bocock or Ishikawa, where they held a guy out for a whole year to avoid burning the option?
Or maybe it was Bocock and he was off the 40 by then.
proud, yes I said proud, adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez
by foothillsfan on Jul 20, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
It was probably someone like Noah Lowry who missed the entire season that you were thinking about. Burris is currently on a rehab assignment (which I believe is 30 days or 30 games). He will need to be placed on the 25 man roster, optioned to the minors, or placed back onto an injured list at the end of the rehab assignment.
On second thought, it was Frandsen
In 2008, Frandsen got injured in spring training and missed the whole year except for one at-bat in September after the rosters were expanded. So, if Burris can somehow wait until the rosters were expanded before getting activated, then he could keep his minor league option.
Velez had 6 errors in 31 games at 2b last year and 1 in 10 games this year
He’s not an infielder and he’s barely an outfielder..
Use him to pinch run for Posey and that’s it
Seriously?
You mean you wouldn’t use Whiteside to pinch run? He’s like the 3rd fastest guy on the team.
"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league." -BS
"YOU'RE A PAIN IN MY ASS! STOP BEING THAT" - Mel Gibson
by Giant Torture on Jul 20, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Whiteside pinch runs for Posey
then Velez comes in to play catcher.
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
by EliminateMe on Jul 20, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Bochy immediately recommends that Sabean call Bengie’s agent, to see about next year.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Posey should never be pinch run for.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
based on last week, I don't think he will be taken out for a pinch runner for quite a while
proud, yes I said proud, adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez
by foothillsfan on Jul 20, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Use him to pinch run for Posey and that’s it
You realize this would remove Posey from the game right? That seems like a bad idea, if we want to win
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
BORK!
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
One has to suppose . . .
. . . that their underlying consideration is “oh, he can play infield and outfield”. The fact that he plays them miserably—especially the infield, which is where backing-up is most needed (and can you see him at SS?) seems irrelevant to them. And as a batter, he is just barely major-league on a poor team.
This callup, all by itself, should, at this moment in history, be in and of itself ground for firing Sabean. It is very, very difficult to make a poorer personnel decision right now (other than an insane trade). But ownership seems to understand little or nothing about baseball.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
At each instance, I think “Well, THIS has got to be the last straw.” And I’m continually wrong. Sabean still has his job. Is it possible that Sabean has incriminating photos of ALL the SF partners?
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
. . that their underlying consideration is "oh, he can play infield and outfield
That makes him a seven tool player. How can you hold that back?
(Any statistical arguments against any of those seven tools will be refuted by arguments that begin with “Yeah, but this one time….”)
I just looked at his his line in Fresno – he has a worse OPS than Bowker, Rohlinger, Guzman, Borchard, Graham, Downs, Holm and Bond, plus all of the SSS major leaguers (including Bumgarner).
by sarf_london_niner on Jul 21, 2010 2:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Ah, but . . .
. . . he has 660 major-league plate appearances—an obvious mark of gritty veteran gaminess (especially in the usual, non-sports meaning of that last word).
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
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