Markakis?
Not sure how available this really means he is and I'm guessing he'd cost a ton. But he's basically a younger DeJesus (great OBP, good speed that doesn't really translate to stolen bases, plus defense at the corner OF spots). I'd love to get him, any thoughts on what it would take to land him? Wheeler+Neal?
almost 2 years ago
sam23
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After looking at his numbers I am less sure but my first reaction was that I would rather have Adam Jones.
For the thirteen time in 3 or one evers, I found myself toothlessly thinking about Manny Ramirez.
Adam Jones has been awful this year
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Yeah...
for some reason I thought he had a much better 2009 but not really.
For the thirteen time in 3 or one evers, I found myself toothlessly thinking about Manny Ramirez.
Jones has 10 walks this year
So he’s walking as much in the majors as Francisco Peguero is in San Jose.
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
by Gobroks on Jul 17, 2010 4:34 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Well you've got to hand it to him...
It is much harder to walk in the majors.
For the thirteen time in 3 or one evers, I found myself toothlessly thinking about Manny Ramirez.
Oh for sure
I was just sayin
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
by Gobroks on Jul 17, 2010 4:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Credit where credit is due...
if Jones were playing for SJ he would probably have 20 walks.
For the thirteen time in 3 or one evers, I found myself toothlessly thinking about Manny Ramirez.
LOL at least
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
by Gobroks on Jul 17, 2010 4:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Hey, I’ll have you know Peguero has drawn 5 walks in his last 6 games! Can Adam Jones say that?
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Really?
That’s encouraging…maybe he won’t be completely overwhelmed at AA next year
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
I would love Markakis but I doubt they would trade him because I’m pretty sure the O’s owner is in love with him.
I’d do Wheeler + Neal for him.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
But
I don’t think that would be nearly enough.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I love Markakis as well, but Zach Wheeler is an untouchable to me. This kid is 20, and potentially going to be a part of one of the best rotations ever. This team’s track record with high first round pitching picks is too good for them to be trading them away for non elite players.
Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees.
by rxmeister on Jul 17, 2010 4:38 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
potentially going to be a part of one of the best rotations ever
That seems a little wildly hyperbolic to me, rx. He’s 20 and raw. An optimistic point of view is that he’ll be in the majors in 3 or 4 years. Throw in a couple more years to adjust the majors and who knows what rotation he’ll be a part of. Will Cain be here in 5 years? Will Lincecum? I can even hold out some hope that Zito won’t be. I feel pretty certain Sanchez won’t.
On top of which I can think of a few rotations in baseball history that had three HOFers all operating at their prime together. Would anybody really want to make that claim for us?
Nick Markakis is a very very good player, playing a position we need to upgrade, who’s reasonably cost-controlled for the years that we know we’ll have Lincecum. I’d make that deal in a heartbeat and toss in virtually any other player in our system other than Belt.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Roger, you make a good point, but at the same time reinforce mine. If Cain and Lincecum aren’t here (although they should be) that’s all the more reason why we should hang on to a stud prospect like Wheeler. What’s our rotation if those guys aren’t there? Joey and Pucetas? Not only that, but I think most Giants fans are really enjoying our prospects coming up here and looking so good, and would like to see it continue. We need to hang on to our blue chip kids.
Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees.
by rxmeister on Jul 17, 2010 8:24 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I’d prefer to hang onto our blue chippers too (and again, I think this is a mute point because Markakis isn’t getting traded), but if we’re getting back a blue chip major leaguer whose controlled for years in return for a blue chip 20 year old, that is exactly the kind of deal we should be making (as opposed to the kind we’ve made for years).
I guess I just think we should try to win 1 championship before we worry about winning 10.
On a side note, I noticed Wheeler threw an inning in relief again tonight. What exactly is the plan here?
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
On a side note, I noticed Wheeler threw an inning in relief again tonight. What exactly is the plan here?
If they’re still holding him back from throwing breaking balls because of the finger nail, then he’d probably be exposed the second time through the lineup.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
He threw breaking balls in the Futures Game, so I doubt its that. More likely it’s an issue of building up arm strength, but I don’t see how he’s going to do that making 1 inning appearances 3 times a week. I wonder if the plan is to let him finish out the year in relief and try and get him back to starting next year. Seems like he needs innings to work on his secondary offerings.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
No breaking balls
I’ve got the game on my DVR and have watched Wheeler’s inning 3 times now. Wheeler threw no breaking balls in the Futures Game. I don’t care what the GameDay site (or whichever site was being referenced) siad, anybody can see that he threw all FBs (2 of which were a slower cut FB), plus 2 changeups, but no breaking balls.
I’m not saying that I agree with the assertion that the Giants are instructing him to throw no breaking balls, and that’s why he’s only pitching out of the pen. I think he’s not throwing breaking balls becasue he know that he’s only pitching 1 inning, so he’s not going to get beat with his 3rd best pitch. Besides, I don’t think that a breaking ball would put any more strain on his fingernail than a cutter. I think that there is some other reason why they are limiting him to only 1 inning per outing so far, because if it was just about the curveball then they could still let him pitch multiple innings.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
The ball Peguero hit sure looked like a backup slider to me, and somebody else hit what looked to be the same pitch. I don’t think that was a straight because there was definitely a wrinkle of some nature in it with a bit of lateral movement.
That said, I don’t know that we have any way of knowing whether he’s throwing breaking balls without some eyewitness reports from Augusta. We just know that since he’s come back he’s only pitched in 1 inning stints, the last two in relief. Seems to me that if they wanted to work him back up to starter’s innings they would either 1) try to lengthen out his relief appearances, or 2) send him to AZL for a few short starts of progressively greater length.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I don’t think that was a straight change, that should have read.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I’m not saying you can’t trade Wheeler, but you need to get that missing 35 HR stud in return, not just a solid hitter who can’t hit homeruns in a bandbox.
Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees.
by rxmeister on Jul 17, 2010 8:49 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I think you’re underestimating the risks involved in developing a 20 year old pitching prospect. Even the Giants haven’t perfected that particular science (see: Foppert, Aisnworth, Williams, Whitaker, et al.)
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Really they haven’t had that many HS pitchers over the years (although a lot of them have been 1st rounders). They’ve gone much more heavily with drafting college pitchers. Chris Jones, Jerome Williams, Boof Bonser, Cain, Whitaker, Bumgarner, Alderson, Wheeler. Toss in high rounders Matt Graham, John Thomas, Clayton Tanner, Ryan Hannaman and Jesse English and that’s pretty much the list during Sabean’s tenure (that got signed anyway). I’m sure I’m missing some but that’s probably a critical mass of them. Add in the years that Sabean ran the draft pre-GM and you can add in Joe Fontenot.
I don’t know that that list implies any kind of development magic, though we certainly struck paydirt with Cain and Bumgarner. But just to show how extraordinary those two cases were, Bumgarner had already made his major league debut when he was Wheeler age, and Cain was less than a year away. Of course, Jerome Williams wasn’t that far off — he spent his entire age 20 season in AAA and was in the majors when he was about a year older than Wheeler is now, and then it all went wrong somehow. It’s a tricky business and one that’s more likely to fail than to succeed.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
My point is that there’s a high rate of attrition among pitching prospects regardless of their ranking.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Yeah, that was my point, too.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
MOOT POINT
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
His point can’t speak.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jul 18, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Apparently it can’t spell either.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
it's where ents meet
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Jul 19, 2010 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions
On the one hand, Wheeler looks great for a 20 year old. On the other hand, the Giants seem to be able to find a Wheeler every other draft, and they seem to be able to find a Markakis-type hitter about every other decade.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
As much as I’d want to hang on to Wheeler, I have a hard time refuting this fact. Curse you, Bhaakon!
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
the pieces may not exist
but that’s the kind of thing they should be trying, not silly Jose Guillen.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Jul 17, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
i agree
if we’re going to add a bat, let’s make it a legitimate impact guy. markakis would look really good in RF at AT&T
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jul 17, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Angelos has a huge thing for Markakis because they’re fellow Greeks (seriously this is how Angelos thinks). He’d almost surely veto any attempted deal (the same way he’s done with multiple Brian Roberts deals over the years and others).
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
This is 100% true.
I know the Angelos family personally and this is fact. However, Peter would still probably do it for a ridiculous deal. The problem is that trading Markakis now would alienate the 22 fans who still care about the O’s. I think it is really unlikely. I do know the O’s had interest in Dirty last year (pre no-no). I also know that Markakis and Jones were untouchable then. Jones is probably not now.
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
hmmm
I know the Angelos family personally
That makes two sets of baseball owners you know…. any more to disclose? Hmmm?
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Jul 19, 2010 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Wait..
who is the other one?
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
I think the O's are looking for a power hitter
I’d love Markakis, but I doubt we have a realistic shot to get him
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
by Gobroks on Jul 17, 2010 4:30 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
LOL
I got him in MLB 10 straight up for Rowand
doan worry, poplo loe he team, he wan get berry good for body to play the beisbol
Proud Aussie father of Roberto Kelly
LOL
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
...I wish things like that could happen IRL
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
Markakis already has Giantitis, and he's not even on the Giants.
Hitting from the 3rd spot in the lineup all year and batting .300 on but with only 6hrs and 31rbi for the season?! Giantitis.
by HOLDEMUPGoldenStateOfOppression on Jul 18, 2010 12:06 AM PDT reply actions
More like Corey Patterson-itis.
Markakis is hitting well w/RISP, so a competent leadoff man should cure him of that, and the addition of an honest to god #2 hitter who can actually get on base would do wonders for the Giants’ middle of the order.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Yup
I’d rather not include Belt if possible (I’m much more willing to deal Wheeler) but if I had to I would.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
I would also do Wheeler + Neal for Markakis
But I don’t think the O’s would.
My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.
Who would you rather have?
Markakis or
Pence?
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
Markakis
But it’s close. Markakis is signed through 2014 with a 2015 club option and he’s a better buy-low option. On the other hand, Pence hasn’t been as inconsistent and it’s not like Markakis’ deal is team-friendly or anything; he’s being paid pretty well.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
Markakis and its a pretty easy call for me.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
+1
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
Sanchez and Pill
Pill seems like a better prospect than Neal at this point in terms of high chances of being able to contribute soon, but there’s no room for him with Belt on the rise. I don’t think Sanchez is ever going to put it together for more than a couple of games at a time. And he’ll get killed in the AL East given the patience of the Yankee and Red Sox hitters, so it will look like a good trade even if it isn’t.
by NearestNorwich on Jul 18, 2010 10:53 AM PDT reply actions
I think there’s room for one year of Pill. I’d like to see Pill starting next year, because I really don’t think Belt will be ready to take over in SF by Opening Day 2011, but he’ll be there in 2012 if he keeps this up. Actually, he will be there in 2011 if he keeps this up, but if he slows down a bit he might need to spend 2011 in AAA, and we should probably plan for that because I think it’s pretty unlikely he keeps hitting .400.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
I don’t think there’s room for Pill as long as Ishikawa’s around. Not that think Ishikawa is a stud or anything, but he’s at least as good as Pill and he’s already made the transition to the majors.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Agreed
Pill gets squeezed by Travis above and Brandon below. I’d be happy to include him in any deal, anywhere, anytime.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Really?
Pill has a .765 OPS in AAA this year. He seems like an extremely marginal player, if that.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
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