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The Wild West and the Trade Deadline.

So this is my first time writing down my thoughts on the trade deadline that is fast approaching. The layout will be simple, I will start from the top of the division and go down. Will they buy, sell, or stay pat? Here is my thoughts with the latest rumors.


Star-divide

San Diego - (51-37) 1st in West.

Here is the surprise team of the year. Even if the Padres fall off and finish last in the NL people will still say "Man remember when they were in first and no one could say why? That was cool." Well I'm here to tell you why they are winning, pitching. They have the best starting pitching and a shutdown bullpen that has carried them so much with some nice timely hitting to go along with it.

Now to the breakdown: The Padres are in a position to buy when the ownership thought they would be selling. What does this do for them? When all the experts were talking about San Diego it was talking about where Gonzalez would end up. Well, now if they move him the fans of San Diego would riot. I seriously think if the Padres look to sell people would take to the internet in a fury we have never seen out of them before. The Red Sox are rumored to still want Gonzalez but I don't think they will land him. Ownership wants to cut payroll and get younger but they are winning so what do they do? They contacted the Mariners about Cliff Lee and got laughed off, so they got that going for them to start. They really need another bat to help Adrian and help score some runs for the pitchers. I would think they would look more for a power hitting outfielder like Hart or Guillen. The question is would ownership want to take on a contract that they do not want? They have been in sell mode for so long that I do not think much thought has gone into what they will be doing this year, and this will burn them. In the end I think they hesitate on pulling for the bigger name free agent and do not land one.

Prediction: They buy, but nothing special. They will try for a good player who is going for cheap and they will not have to lose any pieces.

 

Colorado - (49-39) T-2nd

Is anyone surprised that the Rockies got on a nice roll and ended up in 2nd place with a nice stretch of games? I do not think I am. The Rockies are a good team that plays tough especially when they start stringing together the wins. It also helps that a true ace has emerged big this year for them in Ubaldo Jimenez. I know he has been good before but not like this. He is the true key to thier success this year, especially if they plan on making yet another deep run in the post season.

Breakdown: The Rockies are interested in Dan Uggla. That is about all I need to write. Uggla would be a great fit for them, but the only problem is the Marlins have said they are not interested in trading Uggla for now. If they fall out of contetion before the deadline then they might, but as of now they are saying no. If Uggla is not available when they look to make a move they might decide to go with Ty Wiggington or Jose Lopez for middle infield relief to help fight the injury bug. I do not think they will be aggressive at them but they might look to add another bat to an already potent offense. I think they will make a push at a low level starter to help with the rotation, although I do not think it is on the top of the list for them, so they will not want to trade a high prospect for one.

Prediction: Buy. And they will add a bat to make the rest of the West sweat thinking of how to pitch to them, from 1-8.

 

Los Angeles - (49-39) T-2nd

The Dodgers have been buyers for many years now. Why you ask? Because they have had the money to be. Now with the McCourts in a divorce the question becomes: Will they make the move to take the division? They have talked about getting Lee when it became apparent he would be traded, they didn't. So now they are thinking about looking elsewhere for a nice cheaper option to compliment the rotation. They also have put Sherrill on outright waivers which means they could look for bullpen help as well. In a season with some holes around the lineup in the pitching sense this divorce is not helping at all for them. They have fielded some calls about Jamey Carroll but no major word yet about what they are looking in aquiaring for him. Word is that Fausto Carmona is someone the team seems to really like to become the ace of the staff.

Prediction: They stand still and look at the farm to fill holes they need in the bullpen. I do not see them adding a big salary this year. Trading Carroll might land a pitcher for the bullpen but maybe not a top starter.

 

San Francisco - (47-41) 4th

The Giants are in a very tough spot. Do they buy big or expect someone in the system to step up? Pablo Sandoval has slumped badly in the first half and was expected to carry the offense. That was before Huff had a resurgence and there is something else I might be forgetting..... oh yea. There was a trade that sent Molina to Texas and gave the starting job to a rookie named Buster Posey who has done a great job swinging the bat. So now, do they go after a proven bat or hope Pablo re surges and Huff and Posey keep up the amazing play? I think they go with the first. This team is full of surprises including Andres Torres who is a good leadoff guy and a plus fielder due to his speed and good arm. But what happens when he gets hurt or needs a day off? Rowand then gets the start and leads off. He played well in the last part of the first half, a very small part, so he could be turning it around. The Giants have been linked heavily to Hart of the Brewers and rumored to like DeJesus of the Royals

Prediction: Buy small. I think they target DeJesus because he is a left handed bat that will help in the outfield and push either Huff or Burrell to first base.

 

Arizona - (34-55) 5th

Last and least it is the Diamondbacks. A team with good young talent in some spots but mostly filled with bench players this year with some performances. The bullpen is filled with garbage that can't hold down a lead even if the lives of puppies and kittens relied on it. To add insult to injury their first round draft pick failed his physical. Things are not good in the D-Backs camp right now. I like Upton and Young but not much else. The starters have been passable but the bullpen has been a disaster. Haren appears to be on the trade block and I expect him to be gone. This team needs a lot of help and don't be surprised to see the rebuilding begin before the deadline. Other then that there is not much else to say but.......

Prediction: Sell hard and fast. This team will become younger and look to start developing the young talent hoping to find a new ace and first baseman as LaRoche will look to be moved as well.

 

If you have any thoughts please feel free to share them. The West is about to get wild and I can't wait for some good baseball.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Idle Off-Day Speculation

Apr 2012 by jponry - 1540 comments

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I could see Arizona standing pat

Apparently with DiPoto being the interim GM, he doesn’t have complete control over the team and won’t be allowed to trade cost controlled players like Stephen Drew and Kelly Johnson.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jul 14, 2010 11:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Obligatory Bowker

As for the Rockies: they are basically the league deciding to forbid the humidor away from falling into obscurity forever (again.) The Padres are unlikely to keep up their pace. The Dodgers bullpen is going to explode and they aren’t likely to spend money.

Bowker bowker bowker.

Back on the market.

by positiveuphemism on Jul 14, 2010 11:24 PM PDT reply actions  

They will keep the humidor.

Baseball will not let that go away anytime soon. I would love to see Bowker get extended time in the outfield but it won’t happen. Sad to say but it wont. I would not be mad to see Dejesus on the team. Padres just have not really made big moves under this ownership and the Rockies have never really shook things up either so I really do not know what to think of them.

by Giant_in_la_area on Jul 14, 2010 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Never shook things up? Matt Holliday? Vinny Castilla deal? I agree that they tend to look for under the radar deals, but they’ve made some big trades in the past.

"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league."

by Giant Torture on Jul 15, 2010 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Holliday was traded away during the off-season. I’m talking big moves at the deadline. Castilla was moved to make way for Zimmerman and the Castilla ended up off the team and resigned with Colorado. So nothing major for them. The A’s did trading Holliday to the Cards though.

by Giant_in_la_area on Jul 15, 2010 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure the Rockies need to do much. If we expect the Padres to go on a losing streak at some point (I do), then the Rockies are basically tied for the division lead with the Dodgers, just up on the Giants. That’s good position for them.

And honestly, I think we should put the humidor talk to rest. It seems so baseless to me.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jul 15, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

You cant expect a team to start losing as a way of measuring your potential moves in trades. When the Rockies went to the world series they went on a tear of winning. I know it was a great streak that probably won’t happen again but it did. Even if the Pads did start losing games why would they not try to get better? If they win the division then they need to play great in the post season. Upgrading will not hurt them, just don’t expect it to be a blockbuster trade.

by Giant_in_la_area on Jul 15, 2010 10:20 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

They might not try to get better if the cost is too high. The Rockies seem to value their young players (wisely), so they might not want to give very much up in a win-now philosophy. I could see them finding someone to replace Tulowitzki for now, but that would just be a stop-gap. Maybe they should have jumped on Escobar, but I’m not sure how openly the Braves were shopping him.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jul 15, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m still a bit surprised that the league allows them to use it. The air may be thinner up there but that doesn’t warrant the use of different baseballs.

Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG

by Useful_Idiot on Jul 15, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

How well . . .

. . . do you remember the pre-humidor era? It wasn’t a joke, it was something much more dire. MLB does not “allow” them to use the humidor, they mandated it, to try to restore at least a little normalcy.

Joe Garagiola Jr. once told me that before the park was built they (I forget just who “they” was, but I suppose the Colorado ownership) had a study done on how it would play given the design and the location. When the results came back showing what—as it turned out—was pretty much exactly how it did play, it was completely ignored as being far too wild and silly to believe.

Ah, yes: there’s no thinking in baseball!

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jul 15, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I remember the pre-humidor pretty well. The Rockies sucked, and there was balance and harmony to the world. The humidor ruined that.

Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG

by Useful_Idiot on Jul 15, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

correlation does not = causation

by eldingo on Jul 15, 2010 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, but it does imply causation. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Rockies lost out on a few FA pitchers because they didn’t want to go to Coors and see their ERA jump two points. Which is why they spent all that money on Mike Hampton.

Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.

by quincy0191 on Jul 16, 2010 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I loved pre-humidor games. I would always look forward to the inevitable 20-15 contests when the Giants went to Denver.

El Person!!!

by El Person on Jul 16, 2010 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Would gettting DeJesus be considered “buying small”? I don’t think so

Thing A

"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud

by sam23 on Jul 15, 2010 12:59 AM PDT reply actions  

This

DeJesus would be a relatively major acquisition, from a talent standpoint, not to mention the things we’ll have to give up to get him.

My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.

by GiantPain on Jul 15, 2010 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

In terms of what I think they will give up yes. I am not expecting Sanchez to move at all or Madison. They will only look to trade prospects that wont be difficult to replace. If you trade an outfield prospect for an outfielder then you shape up well in the end. If they ask for a starter like the Brewers did then the Giants will say no. If they ask for a few prospects, then I think there in.

by Giant_in_la_area on Jul 15, 2010 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it would take at least Wheeler to get DeJesus

That’s a high cost to pay, but we should do it.

My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.

by GiantPain on Jul 15, 2010 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

Wheeler has far too many what-ifs to consider him a sure thing and Dejesus would make the Giants better instantly, although I’m beginning to think the best way for the Giants to improve is to add a 3B, sorry.

"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league."

by Giant Torture on Jul 15, 2010 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nah

Pablo is a rebound candidate, but even if he wasn’t, he doesn’t hit that poorly for a third baseman. Better to get an RF or 1B.

My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.

by GiantPain on Jul 15, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think by getting a RF we get a 1B in Huff. Not a bad upgrade this year.

by Giant_in_la_area on Jul 15, 2010 9:31 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Is it just me or…

would DeJesus look a lot like Randy Winn when he was traded to the Giants? Their stats are similar. DeJesus would be a bit younger…What did we give up for him again? Fopp? I was a Dapper Dan man anyway.

Anyway, Wheeler would seem to make some sense.

It wouldn’t give us the pop we are hoping for but it would give us a good defender in the OF who can also hit .300ish and move Huff back to 1B. I think the defensive gains would be the big win here.

I would definitely pick up his 2011 6 million dollar option as well.

The only thing is, I wonder what Belt AND Wheeler could get us?

From today’s KLaw chat:

Corey (Stockton CA)
Could you please give a report and ETA for Brandon Belt?
Klaw
  (1:49 PM)

Haven’t seen the new swing yet, but talked to a scout last week who had – got him a lot more upright and stable and it’s (obviously) made a huge difference. Could be just a year away, maybe a year and a half. Potential impact bat … or excellent trade bait this month.

Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.

by Cody_ransom on Jul 15, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

DeJesus would be very similar to Winn

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jul 15, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well

Winn was fucking awesome for the first couple years after we got him, so I’m fine with that.

My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.

by GiantPain on Jul 15, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

For the record

He was actually really bad the first year (then good for two years, then bad again).

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 15, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

For the record

he was really, really awesome for the last 1/3 of the season right after we got him.

Thing A

"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud

by sam23 on Jul 16, 2010 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wheeler for DDJ - no way

That’s just crazy talk IMO. Maybe I would buy into it if the Giants had a legit shot of winning the World Series this year with the addition of DDJ and this was their last chance to win it all with an aging team, but that’s just not the case. The Giants are a truly flawed team. Their bullpen is not good enough to carry them in the playoffs, much less get them to it. 3 of their best 4 hitters so far this year (Huff, Uribe, and Torres) are due for a regression in the 2nd half of the season. Also, if any of our starting pitchers gets hurt and misses any extended time we’d be dead meat. No to mention that even if we got DDJ there’s no guarantee that Bochy would lose his love of Rowand and deploy his surplus of outfielders correctly.

Secondly, Wheeler for DDJ is a non-starter. Did you see Wheeler pitch on Sunday? Wheeler is a young stud, with a #1 SP ceiling, and universally rated as a top-50 prospect after only 8 pro starts. You want to trade him for a 30 year old OF with a career OPS of .789 and only a 52% SB success rate, who’s had a career 1st half of the season with the bat, and is statistically very likely to regress back to his norm in the 2nd half? Not to mention the fact that this hitter will be changing leagues and he’s only under team control through the end of 2011.

If BS would to do this he’d be signing his walking papers. I don’t want BS to even think of trading any of our top prospects. I don’t trust him to get anywhere near fair value for them. The Giants are a team that needs a long-term plan to build a young championship team from within, not one that goes after some short-term flavor-of-the-month veteran in the misguided notion that they could catch lightning-in-a-bottle and win it all this year.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 15, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

If you're not willing to trade any top prospects, you're rarely going to improve your team via trade

Also, re: Wheeler, TINSTAAPP, etc.

My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.

by GiantPain on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m willing to trade Wheeler, just not straight-up for DDJ. I’m also willing to trade other of our top prospects, just not for a short-term “fix” that might make us better this year or next, but won’t bring us up to the level of championship contenders. I totally agree that the Giants should trade some of their pitching prospects for position players, but not in a 1-sided trade like you suggested.

Unfortunately, I just don’t trust BS to get anywhere near good value in such a trade. No, I’m afraid the best we can hope for as long as BS is in charge is that he finds a way to get rid of some of the deadwood like Rowand and Renteria, and that any other trade that he makes is on the fringes.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 15, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is so accurate, it’s scary. The Wheeler assessment, the DDJ assessment, and most importantly the recognition of Sabean’s inability to judge talent and bargain accordingly.

This is five kinds of awesome. Rec’d.

"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10

"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912

by Lyle on Jul 15, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks

And tell Mom I’ll call her in a few days.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 15, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

BS is bad at free agent signings

He’s not that bad at trades. Only one he’s really failed on in recent years was Garko.

My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.

by GiantPain on Jul 15, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, there was Fred Lewis for diddlysquat.

by Evan on Jul 15, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Accardo for Hillenbrand was pretty terrible.

He hasn’t failed in trades because he hasn’t done any trades. Before Molina, what was the last good one – Morris for Davis?

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 15, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Durham for Ford?

My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.

by GiantPain on Jul 15, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

What was good about it?

Durham had a .293/.385/.414 line at the time, and Ford is very close to non-prospect territory.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 15, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Alderson for Sanchez

He could’ve gotten Sanchez for nothing but chose to give up a prospect instead. The fact that Alderson has sucked this year does not justify the stupidity of this move.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jul 16, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

curious

what kind of player would you trade Wheeler for then? I’m no sure any GM could do a whole lot better than DeJesus in a Wheeler deal.

Thing A

"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud

by sam23 on Jul 16, 2010 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t trade Wheeler for an estabished major leaguer right now, because, as you correctly noted, no GM is likely to give you anything near fair value in return for him. Wheeler will be a much more valuable chip to attract a major leaguer sometime in the next 24 months if we still want to trade him.

If I was looking to get the most out of a Wheeler trade right now I’d be targeting minor league positon players that are in similar positions as Wheeler is. In other words, guys with lots of potential and high ceilings that haven’t yet produced to their projected levels.

To speak in more general terms to the spirit of your question, the type of major league players that I would be looking to trade any of my top prospects for right now if I was BS would be somebody like a Ryan Braun (I know he has a no-trade clause through next year). Guys that may be scuffling and undervalued now, but who are still relatively young and under team control at reasonable salaries at least through the end of the 2012 season. I would not be trading top prospects for 30-something players that are having career years. That’s a recipe for disaster. I have nothing against 30-something players, but those guys you should try to pick up on the cheap for short-term contracts as FAs, or for fringe prospects, like we’ve done recently with Uribe, Huff and Torres. That way if they don’t work out, you have no problem just letting them move on.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 16, 2010 2:07 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Three of everybody’s best 4 hitters are always due for a regression. And the poor hitters are due to get better.

Much as I like DeJesus, though, I don’t think I’d give up Wheeler.

by Evan on Jul 15, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!

by Giantsfan4life on Jul 15, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

TINSTAAPP!!

Ryan Vogelsong, Jerome Williams, Jesse Foppert, Kurt Aisnworth, Tim Alderson, etc., etc.

"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league."

by Giant Torture on Jul 16, 2010 5:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Whoa.

If you deal Wheeler for a RF/CF player, an idea I like and have for some time touted, should you not get back a player younger than DeJesus? He’s not exactly antique, but he will be 31 next year. This team needs to get younger. I’d expect—nay, demand—a 24- or 25-year-old strong hotshot just ready to step into the majors.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jul 15, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who’s gonna give you a “25-year-old strong hotshot just ready to step into the majors” for Wheeler?

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 15, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

That I cannot say.

But it depends, i suppose, on what value of “hotshot” we’re looking at.

Or, if that is impossible—which I do not presume—then an outfielder of comparable quality but also comparable age, and we wait a while. What sorts of return do you think a Wheeler would bring right now? (Not a rhetorical question.)

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jul 15, 2010 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hard to say. But I just don’t see why anyone would trade a major league ready hotshot for an A ball ready hotshot.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 15, 2010 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it’s pretty rare for prospects who are that far from the majors to be a center piece in a trade, so it’ll be pretty hard to find comparable deals.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jul 15, 2010 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

You’re right. Unless you can find a team that’s in bad financial condition and they’re doing a salary dump like the Marlins and Padres have done in the last 15 years. The other case where it can happen is if you find a team that has decided they need to rebuild. but they have a star player that is going to leave in free agency, and they want to get something more than just comp draft picks for him. The A’s did that with Dan Haren, and the Rangers did it with Teixera just recently.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 16, 2010 2:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Perceived value is value.

I would suppose it all depends on some other team’s vision of the near to middle future. If they see themselves needing a quality starter in a couple of years, and already have a quality player blocking their prospect, why not? I suspect that quality blocking quality is, while perhaps not common, not rare either. (Oh, poor Mike Aldrete; I still mourn.)

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jul 16, 2010 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

IMO a package based around Wheeler could get us Fielder

As far as hot shots go-you are right

Dominic Brown is ML ready, but there is no way the Phillies give him up. Same with the Rays and Desmond Jennings (on that note IMO, it’s a perfect time to buy low on BJ Upton)

Other guys that fit your description could be available but wouldn’t be worth Wheeler are:

Fernando Martinez-Mets
Peter Bourjos-Angels
Cameron Maybin-Marlins (Is he still a hotshot? or is he just a bust?)

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jul 15, 2010 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not going to happen

The Brewers want Cain for Fielder and the best the Giants could do would be a package around Sanchez, so I guess it could happen. Wheeler and Sanchez for Fielder seems to be around their asking price which is way too much.

"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league."

by Giant Torture on Jul 16, 2010 5:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

What about

Wheeler-plus for Shin-Soo Choo? He’d be inexpensive for the rest of this year and controlled through 2013, he’s an impact bat in RF with improving defense according to UZR, and the Indians probably won’t be ready to compete until 2012 or so, right when Wheeler would probably be about to break into the big leagues and Choo would be departing for FA. Not to mention the Indians probably wouldn’t mind getting something for him now in case the military thing forces him back home, and he’s about to get expensive, but with Rent coming off the books. I think we’d have to include a pretty good secondary prospect, but it’s not like Cleveland got the world for Sabathia, Lee, or Martinez, so maybe we can pry Choo loose. It’s not an awesome trade for the Tribe unless they get someone like Neal or Kieschnick in addition to Wheeler, but I certainly wouldn’t call it a terrible deal on their end.

Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.

by quincy0191 on Jul 16, 2010 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's that "military thing".

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jul 16, 2010 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’d definitely do that.

Thing A

"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud

by sam23 on Jul 16, 2010 4:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Would love to get Dejesus

CF- Andres Torres
RF- David Dejesus
C- Buster Posey
1B- Aubrey Huff
SS-Juan Uribe
LF- Pat Burrell
3B- Pablo Sandoval
2B- Freddy Sanchez

by theimmortalbenard on Jul 15, 2010 9:39 AM PDT reply actions  

I’m worried the Royals would ask too much for DeJesus, and that Sabean would give it.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jul 15, 2010 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am too, but as of right now at least Sabean looks like he won’t give up Sanchez or Bumgarner. Anyone else I really won’t be that mad about especially since we can have Dejesus for 6.5 million dollars in ’11.

by theimmortalbenard on Jul 15, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Freddy wont move from that 2 spot, hes a 2 hitter thru and thru, and hes proven to this club he deserves to be there

by GiantsSwab on Jul 15, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sanchez flails and fails enough that I would move him down in the order if anybody productive and faster were available. he’s 8th on the team in OBP, not counting a relief pitcher who’s first.
GIDP rate actually is low, they must have just happened when I was watching.
Monthly rates show a decline since the very hot debut.
SLG is pitiful 333 for July, 360 overall. I see a candidate to be next year’s infield sub while Downs starts

proud, yes I said proud, adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez

by foothillsfan on Jul 15, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

A year ago . . .

. . . the best #2 hitter the Giants could have put out there was Sandoval. Right now there are several candidates, though most are (as Sandoval was) non-traditional, in being slow runners. Probably the best more or less “traditional” #2 would be Renteria. FSanchez is definitely, even at his normal production, a low-in-the-lineup batter.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jul 15, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

The fact that he may not be moved from the 2 spot does not mean he shouldn’t be if we acquire Dejesus. For their careers Dejesus gets on base 36% of the time and Sanchez 33% of the time. Sanchez’ career high in walks is 32! Dejesus already has more than that this season. Plus Dejesus has more power than Sanchez does. If the Giants can put 3 guys in the first 3 spots who can consistently get on base somewhere around 36% of the time you have to do it.

by theimmortalbenard on Jul 15, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nice detailed predictions and reasoning

I have only one strong disagreement with your conclusions. The Fodgers will assuredly make a move or 2 for a major league veteran if they remain in contention for the rest of the month.

Agent Ned will just repeat his MO from the past 2 seasons. He’ll pick up a veteran or 2, but get the other team(s) to cover all, or a vast majority, of the remaining 2010 salaries of those vets. The other team(s) will do this, because the Fodgers will give them minor league prospects in return. The Fodgers did this in 2009 (Casey Blake from the Indians for Santana) and in 2009 (Josh Bell + Steve Johnson for George Sherrill, and Tony Abreu for John Garland). In all of those trades the Fodgers paid almost none of Blake’s, Sherrill’s, and Garland’s salaries.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 15, 2010 11:49 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm wondering when trading all those prospects is going to really bite them in the ass

I was hoping this year, but I guess I should be more patient.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jul 15, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep

But fear not; Operation Blue Crush moves slowly but inexorably to it’s glorious conclusion.

"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10

"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912

by Lyle on Jul 15, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL Blake for Santana

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jul 15, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank you. But as for the Dodgers....

I really did think about that. Manny I understand because the Sox wanted him gone and Sherrill was not pitching well at the time. Look at him now, he is on waivers. Oswalt, who they really want, is said will not be paid by the Astros if traded. They want the other team to pick up the remaining money and the Dodgers do not want that. Their farm system also doesn’t have a prospect people really want badly and would be willing to trade a top level guy for. So that is why I see them not making a move this year.

by Giant_in_la_area on Jul 15, 2010 12:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t predicting that the Fodgers would get a plum like Oswalt or ManRam. I think they’ll pick up a starter and/or reliever and maybe an OF bat from a non-contender that’s looking to stock up on prospects. The level of players they’ll target will be similar to the ones that I mentioned from the last 2 years – Jon Garland, George Sherrill, Casey Blake. And you’re wrong about Sherrill, he was pitching well for Baltimore before the Fodgers picked him up last year.

The Fodgers do have enough B-, and C-level propsects to swing deals like this. With Joe Torre most likely in his last year, and Ned’s job hanging by a thread, Ned will do all that he reasonably can to make 1 last push for the playoffs and WS. It’s likely the only thing that will save his job.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 15, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

You were right. Sherrill was pitching well. The media here made it seem he was not pitching well at the time. I know there is concern right now with them about getting a player, but people still don’t know who will own the team and Ned has talked about maybe walking away after the year. Do not know if that is true but it was reported. I really hope they get nothing and miss the post season, but something could be pulled. I don’t doubt that at all.

by Giant_in_la_area on Jul 15, 2010 2:26 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

You’re definitely more familiar with what’s going on in LA this season than I am. As a Giants fan, I hope that Agent Ned does go for some more of those deals where he raids the Fodgers farm system for short-term and marginal help at the major league level. A few more like those and it could end up seriously affecting their farm system for several years.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Jul 15, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I call dibs on Billy the Kid.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jul 15, 2010 12:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Also, I'd like to rekindle my crazy idea from earlier this year

Jonathan Sanchez + a top-5 prospect + a few good prospects to the Astros for Roy Oswalt, Lance Berkman, and cash.

Berkman started slow, but he’s hitting pretty well now and doesn’t seem to be bothered by injuries. IIRC, both Berkman and Oswalt are under control next season as well.

Torres CF
Sanchez 2B
Huff RF
Berkman 1B
Posey C
Burrell LF
Sandoval 3B
Uribe SS

Lincecum / Oswalt / Cain / Zito / Bumgarner

My Son. Dude hits inside the parkers and takes walks.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
I am a Bochy hater and a Sabean apologist.

by GiantPain on Jul 15, 2010 12:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Sounds good but one problem.

Berkman doesn’t want to play for the Giants. He has said before he doesn’t like coming here on road trips and wants to leave once their done playing. Do not want a player that hates playing in San Francisco.

by Giant_in_la_area on Jul 15, 2010 12:44 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Oswalt good, Berkman bad. we dont need another overpriced senior citizen for bork to fall in love with. glad he hates SF.

Its not easy being a giants fan

by jasonx on Jul 15, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

If we're going for WIN NOW, I'd rather trade Bumgarner

Though I’m not sure that’s what Sabean should do

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jul 15, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

No way. Sanchez is too inconsistent, Bumgarner is largely unproven but has a high ceiling. Bumgarner has way too much value to trade for a 32 year old pitcher and a year of someone who doesn’t want to be here

Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG

by Useful_Idiot on Jul 15, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't trade either for that Berk/Oswalt package

I’m just saying that for WIN NOW, I’d rather have the guy who will most likely be the better in the short term.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jul 15, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just flat-out wouldn’t do this from the Giants perspective. It’s an absolute fleece for the Astros, as they’re giving up 2 1/2 years of Oswalt and 1 1/2 of Berkman (only if we pick up the expensive option on both, which is $16M for Oswalt and $15M for Berkman) for half our farm system. Oswalt is a great starter, but he’s being paid like one, so it’s not like having him under team control for that long is particularly helpful, and Berkman is being paid well for a guy who’s getting up there in years and has recent injury history. Trading kids makes sense if you’re getting something of value in return, which we certainly would be, but I don’t think it’s nearly on the same level as what we’d probably have to give up just to get the money to pay these guys. Not to mention we’d have no FA dollars next year, and I’d rather hand a contract to Werth or Crawford.

Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.

by quincy0191 on Jul 16, 2010 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't do anything if I were the Padres

It’s some sort of miracle they’ve been so good. I’d be terrified to mess it up by changing anything at all.

Whatever Sabean thinks about the IQ of the average baseball fan, you just proved him right.

by cybermaldonado on Jul 15, 2010 1:32 PM PDT reply actions  

The Pads have to be perfect...

They havnt had much of a losing skid all year, and as soon as they do they are done for. Still amazes me how consistant they are.

 The Giants are super streaky, 6 out of seven on the road in Milwalkee and Washington got them back the games they lost to the Rockies and Dodgers….almost, but how they have laid down and died twice, in Oakland earlier and vs LA at home and Rox on the road recently. can the giants win series against the Dodgers,Pads and Rockies, i really dont know. but i sure hope they man up vs em. especially at home.

But can they do it for 162 games, the consistancy, the Pads arnt as streaky as the others in the west, my money is they finally catch up with their luck and falter. they could sell some pieces extremely high. get young hitting prospects to equel their young pitching and be good for years. with a low payroll, if they dont trade Bell and Gonzalas and they dont go to the playoffs they really lose, cuz i dont think they will pay top dollar ever in FA market. will be intristing to see it all play out in the west.

What is kinda sad is they still dont draw all that great. 10k less per game then the Giants and have been in 1st all but a couple days of the season. id rather the Pads win the west then the Rox or the Dodgers, i just dont see it though. and its not like they are braking the bank with their great first half performance in ticket sales. Kinda sad,

I hope the giants bear down, win some west opponents and take the division, and the Pads make Wild card and someone else beats the Padre’s for us, lol. or we just clearly have a better offence then we did earlier against them.

Its not easy being a giants fan

by jasonx on Jul 15, 2010 2:22 PM PDT reply actions  

Prediction: Buy small. I think they target DeJesus because he is a left handed bat that will help in the outfield and push either Huff or Burrell to first base.

The Giants already have a left handed bat that will help in the outfield and push Huff or Burrell to first base. His name is John Bowker. And I still believe in him.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jul 15, 2010 2:33 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree fully with you. I was so happy to see Bowkermania run wild in spring training. I really thought this was his break out season. If he got some extended time to hit without the pressure of knowing if he goes 2-8 he won’t get benched. I, think that fear is what makes the younger guys press because they know Bochy is looking for any reason to bench them.

by Giant_in_la_area on Jul 15, 2010 3:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I believe in BowkerMania

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jul 15, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't, but even so . . .

. . . it seems worth the final trial considering that the alternative (in lineup terms) seems to be flash-in-the-pan ishikawa, a lineup presence that makes Huff the RF in Park-of-Many-Names, which Li H’sen Chang would describe as “very unwise, very unwise.”

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jul 15, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah an OF with Burrell and Huff at the corners is a recipe for disaster

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jul 15, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

This....

My hope now is that Bowkermania coincides with New GM/Manager mania, because it’s obvious that Bowker doesn’t have enough Grizzle for Bork, maybe he should try the 5 o’clock shadow like Nate.

"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league."

by Giant Torture on Jul 16, 2010 5:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Id love to see him get many plate apperences before we lose em for a pickup truck like Fred Lewis, BS abd BB dont believe in him after SSS. its obvious and it sucks. Giants keep their pitching intact and Bowker proves he canhit at the major leage level, and the giants win the west with all their farm intact.

What does BS and BB see in Bowker that the fan doesnt. he needs to work through his slump, ride a high and let it prove he belongs. he only has to hit 260 to 280 ish with his power.

Its not easy being a giants fan

by jasonx on Jul 15, 2010 2:40 PM PDT reply actions  

Belt, Wheeler and Bucardo

Is a better package than what Seattle gave to get Lee. I know it’s totally different circumstances, offseason vs. deadline, but it would be interesting to see what that trio could bring back. I love Belt, but I’d also love to see a great OF added to this team.

Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.

by Cody_ransom on Jul 15, 2010 3:57 PM PDT reply actions  

I would think that . . .

. . . including Belt in any deal is a case of subtraction by subtraction. Why not trade the entire starting staff? Where does one draw the line between value for value and giving up the store?

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jul 15, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess I am not so sure Belt is a lock to be an impact bat.

It looks that way, and trading him now would definitely be too early. I just wanted to illustrate that they have the pieces to get whatever they might need, doesn’t mean they should.

Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.

by Cody_ransom on Jul 15, 2010 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think there's anyone available that could be worth Wheeler & Belt

maybe Werth if Philly goes into seller mode. I guess I’d do it for Fielder, but I think Milwaukee is grooming Mat Gamel to take over at 1B for Prince.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jul 15, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's the sort of guy . . .

. . . a wise team goes after: the guy next in line after the big-bucks older player that is being offered as available. Not all “next in lines” are really good, but generally, if a team is selling it’s because they have a pretty good replacement in hand. That replacement is what to look for.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jul 15, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, hell no, and shit no. Belt’s only been a pro for a little while, but he is absolutely tearing the minor leagues apart. Wheeler’s been hurt and not particularly good, but there’s a reason he was the #6 overall pick. Bucardo’s posting nice numbers in the low minors and could be a good starter in a few years if we don’t retain Sanchez and Cain.

Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.

by quincy0191 on Jul 16, 2010 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm in this line

Saw yesterday from Keith Law that a scout who saw Belt said that he looks like the real deal and is 1-1.5 years out. I would also like to take this opportunity to reference my plethora of posts saying the exact same thing after seeing Belt play all of once. (Links not necessary because they live in such abundance)

"Triple A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big league."

by Giant Torture on Jul 16, 2010 5:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

The focus is all wrong here...

If the Giants were looking for a trade to upgrade a position, wouldn’t the obvious choince be at SS?

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jul 16, 2010 10:30 AM PDT reply actions  

You're probably right.

I just think Rentarrhea’s presence on the roster scares people away from this.

Drew would be nice, but if Rentarrhea is still on the roster, Bork isn’t just going to give 6 starts a week to Drew, he’s going to give them both AB’s.

Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.

by Cody_ransom on Jul 16, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I tried to go with what could really happen.

They are in no hurry to bench Rent and will not be this season. Drew would be used as a backup defensive replacement if they got him and would have to give up a prospect to do so. They really want another OF to give depth when they need it and Uribe is already the backup for the infield.

by Giant_in_la_area on Jul 18, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

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