The Outfield
by Grant Brisbee on Jun 9, 2010 10:54 AM PDT
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PrintTo recap the 2010 outfield:
- The Giants, showing remarkable patience, don’t sign a crusty veteran to start in right field, essentially handing the job to Nate Schierholtz.
- Fred Lewis is given away for $75,000
- Schierholtz doesn’t hit well in Spring Training. John Bowker does. Bowker wins the job, and Bochy assures the world that Bowker won’t be platooned.
- Bowker is platooned.
- After going 7-for-37 to start the season, Bowker loses his job to Schierholtz, who starts off the season by going 7-for-20 (.350!), including two infield hits.
- Eugenio Velez fits in somewhere around here, but I took out the lobe of my brain that's responsible for storing those memories. All it took was a bottle of bourbon and a flat-head screwdriver.
- Schierholtz hits and fields well at the end of April and start of May, but right around the middle of May, he starts to slump badly. He goes 2-for-27, ostensibly because he hurt his shoulder diving for a ball. During this time, Andres Torres hits the snot out of the ball, securing whatever spot in the outfield Bochy wants to give him, and Posey’s call-up shifts Huff to the outfield.
- Aaron Rowand plays every single day after Huff and Torres are outfield regulars, even thought over his last 100 at-bats, Rowand has hit .154/.183/.260 with 27 strikeouts. Just for comparison, over Barry Zito’s last 100 at-bats, he’s hit .139/.195/.139 with 26 strikeouts.
- June comes, and Schierholtz was lost in a tragic schooner accident. At least, that’s my guess, because he hasn’t started a game this month.
It looks like Andres Torres is a fixture unless he burns up upon reentry. No complaints. Aubrey Huff needs to play in the outfield if Buser Posey is starting at first. I'd prefer that Posey starts at catcher, but that's not going to happen, so okay. That leaves one outfield spot open on most days, and it looks like it’s a quasi-platoon between Aaron Rowand (playing center) and Pat Burrell (who moves Torres to center).
Perfect sense. It all makes perfect sense. Schierholtz is too injured to swing a bat properly, but not injured enough to go on the disabled list, and Rowand will stop hitting like Barry Zito any day now. Schierholtz is buried on the bench after a bad two-week stretch, essentially losing his job to a guy who hit like a pitcher for the last month. Bowker gets sent down after irregular (and mostly horrible) at-bats. Burrell comes over to play left a good chunk of time. It all leads to our poll/comment starter:
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Man, when you put it in a poll format, its really damn depressing. Thanks Grant, my day is now ruined!
seriously
I can’t pick just one. Giving away that Frank guy WHILE giving 100 ABs to FBAL is the most baffling to me.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
so Nate was lost in a beer glass?
I like my beer cold ... my TV loud ... and my romosexuals flaming.--Homer Simpson
I liked it until he became yet another
mediocre vet taking starts away from Nate
If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.
It’s possible that Burrell just couldn’t adjust to the AL and DHing. If he can get back to some approximation of his hitting in Philly, he’s a useful player.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
absolutely
and he’s been fine so far. But I’m not sure playing him over Nate is really a good idea considering the immense defensive downgrade you get. I like him as a RH pinch hitter and occasional starter. But I’m worried we’re gonna see a lot more of him starting. Of course, if that means Rowand sits, I guess I’m ok with it.
If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.
Of course
Nate is almost certainly a huge offensive downgrade from Burrell.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Is he really? He’s outhitting Burrell by a lot this year. They hit pretty similarly last year. Zips has them hitting about the same the rest of the season. CHONE seems like it’s a bit more pessimistic on Burrell than Schierholtz (I’m doing some extrapolating here). Yeah, there’s some serious uncertainty in figuring out who’s gonig to do what hitting-wise going forward, but you know what I can guarantee you? The difference in their fielding is huge. We’re talking what, 20 runs over the course of the season? Maybe more?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
and unless Burreell really bounces back
he’s not gonna be able to outhit Nate enough to make up for that
If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.
I’ve already explained why I think Burrell could be much better at hitting.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
The AL and DH thing
They shouldn’t be underestimated.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Neither should 32/33 year olds who hit at a .304 and .298 wOBA over ~600 PA’s be overestimated.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, the whole “Nate’s never been given regular PT” thing kinda works like the DH thing, but may be an even bigger factor working against him.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Really? Is there any research that shows a significant effect for players on this?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Yes, but there’s also evidence of an effect (that I beileve to be even stronger) on players performance when they don’t play regularly, like Nate hasn’t.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
One-Third of the season is in the can, therefore 12 run downgrade
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
Yeah, why find out if a 26 year old can contribute to us for the MLB minimum when we can give a horrible fielding 33 year old the chance to see if maybe he can get back to how he played when he was 31, before he completely sucked?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think Nate’s ever going to be anything more than a 4th outfielder. He has no idea how to control the strikezone.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
That’s fine, the downside here is Nate doesn’t do all that well and we find out he’s not a starter going forward. The downside for Burrell? He doesn’t do that well, we find out he’s finished, and we STILL don’t know what the hell Nate can give us. Seriously, why the fuck does it make sense to give Burrell a shot instead of Nate? They could both fail, they could both succeed, but Nate’s at least potentially in our future. Burrell is not.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Plus Nate is a hell of a lot better defensively.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
and better base runner
in soviet russia, run scores you!....and giants still have terrible offense
by slackersphere17 on Jun 9, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Last night was a good example
Burrell uses his bat to get a late rally started with a double. Nate runs for him, scores and stays in to play defense.
I think Bochy played that well and used their strengths well.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Yup
I think it works out as a good platoon, hiding each of their weaknesses as best as possible.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
When you say platoon, you mean Nate starting against RHP and Burrell against LHP? Or Burrell getting the chance to play and Nate only pinch running and being a defensive replacement…?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Barry Zito for CF
I’m on that bandwagon
I like my beer cold ... my TV loud ... and my romosexuals flaming.--Homer Simpson
The problem with a LHH/RHH platoon
Is that Nate and Burrell both hit LHP better than they do RHP
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Almost every left-hander in the history of baseball has hit righties better than lefties. I’m confident Nate will prove to be one of them.
This. Until a guy has a really, really long track record that deviates from the norm platoon split by a lot, you should more or less assume his platoon split is the average platoon split.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
The downside?
The downside is that Burrell is a much better offensive player than Nate and we waste his bat using him as a PH twice a week.
Burrell’s upside is much higher than Nate’s, IMO. Said another way, Burrell is one year removed from being an impact bat that people have been clamoring for.
He’s possibly the best RHH we’ve had since Alou or even Kent.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
The downside is that Burrell is a much better offensive player than Nate and we waste his bat using him as a PH twice a week.
No it isn’t. The downside is that Burrell is terrible both offensively (like he’s shown for a solid year and a half) and defensively (like he’s shown for his entire career) and he still starts for a month because Bochy likes what he sees with his veteran clubhouse presence.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
not his entire career
just half of it. The most recent half
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I’ll point out from 2006-2008 the Fans Scouting Report had Burrell as pretty horrendous, and from 2004-2005 he was slightly below average. Also, defense tends to peak early, like age 25 or so…..so yeah, I’m comfortable calling him a butcher defensively right now.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Bochy
I’ve been talking about what I’d do and not thinking in terms of Bochy.
I’d play Burrell in LF. If he sucks or his hitting doesn’t make up for his defense, he’s on the bench and Nate goes back out to RF.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Molina to the pine
posey at C
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Yup
And as I said in the other thread, if rent comes back, Huff to RF, Panda to 1B and Uribe to 3B.
Every hitter except Panda would be over 100 OPS+. when was the last time the giants could say that?
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Why not just bench Renteria and have Uribe play SS? That way Bowker or Nate could try RF.
by Into the Void on Jun 9, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Rent has actually not been that bad when he's been healthy this year
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
that week
was amazing
in soviet russia, run scores you!....and giants still have terrible offense
by slackersphere17 on Jun 9, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
srs
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Aside from the "ZOMG WE'RE IN THIS" Grand Slam against the Rocks last year,
the Astros and Braves series to start the season was the pinnacle of my Edgar Renteria experience.
Why is it ok to take a chance on the possibility of Burrell not hitting enough but not take that chance on Nate?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
BECAUSE BURREL HAS SHOWN IT! VETURUN GRIT!
I personally actually think Burrell should start, because he’s already shown a MUCH better approach than Nate ever has in his career. And I’m all for the youngins starting. But at this point Burrel has been a good hitter, so why replace him?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Plus I think most of us want some sanity so we model our desires to what is most likely to happen.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
But at this point Burrel has been a good hitter, so why replace him?
Pat Burrell is hitting .229/.303/.365 this year. He hit .221/.315/.367 last year. Yeah, he could all of a sudden magically transform back into the player he was before despite the evidence against that. Nate also could outperform expectations, too. How about instead of making decisions on what “could” happen when you look at one guys upside and the other guys downside, we consider the full spectrum of possibilities?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
If Bonds had gone to the Yankees, DH'd and put up one bad season...
…would you have not wanted him back or at least not dismissed the idea that the league and DHing had something to do with his decline?
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
I would check out how bad he was and what his projections were. If he was bad enough that his projections plummeted far enough to make him not better than our other options, and I ignored the sentimental side of things, yeah, I’d probably be inclined to think he was done. You can even adjust the projection for that thing a little bit. If it’s still not good overall…..well, I don’t see where you’re going with this. Old guys get worse. Sure, Burrell could be good, but he also could not be good. Whydoes he get a shot when we won’t give young guys that same shot?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
You're really asking this question?
Whydoes he get a shot when we won’t give young guys that same shot?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Yes, I’m asking why a veteran who won’t be around after this season gets a shot to see if he can make it, when he has the possibility of failing or outperforming expectations, and a young guy who could give us surplus value in the futrue can’t get the same shot to fail or exceed expectations.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
And in this case, we have evidecnce that Schierholtz’s mean value > Burrell’s.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
and just as much to suggest the opposite
it’s just as possible that the AL year was a fluke as it is that Nate would be more valuable. They are both “what ifs”. Just because you take a different what if doesn’t make it more likely to happen.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
it’s just as possible that the AL year was a fluke
It’s highly, highly unlikely it’s a “fluke”. I think it’s incredibly unlikely Burrell is as bad as he was last year or earlier this year, but it’s almost certainly an indication that he’s worse than he used to be, especially given his age.
And my “what if’s” are based on things like projections, which, you know, account for the entire realm of possibilities. They’re projected to be basically equal hitters. Even giving Burrell more benefit of the doubt for AL East/DH stuff, the difference doesn’t offset the difference in their defense and baserunning.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Basically, while I think your “what ifs” are based on nothing, I’m actually making an attempt to use objective data for mine. And like I said, even taking some of the oppositions arguments at face value, Nate is STILL likely to be the better player.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sorry
I just don’t agree with this.
Basically, while I think your "what ifs" are based on nothing, I’m actually making an attempt to use objective data for mine
and TBH, I’m sick of arguing about it. We just have to wait and see what happens because our hand-wringing isn’t going to solve it either way.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
MLB was really beating a path to Pat's door
not
I like my beer cold ... my TV loud ... and my romosexuals flaming.--Homer Simpson
Your arguments that Burrell's one bad season was a fluke sound familiar...
…they’re many of the same ones that people here made in arguing that signing Huff was a mistake. People said Huff was finshed, that Ishikawa had more upside and his defense made him better than Huff.
I don’t here people arguing we should bench Huff and start Ishi.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Just wondering
But how well do you think Burrell is going to hit the rest of the season? What about Nate?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
But Huff is old and Ishi is young
so the people who want the young guy to play are right, because it’s never right for the veteran to play over the young guy. Ever.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
lol strawman
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
hyperbole
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Seriously, seriously misses the entire point. It’s about playing the odds. You can never be right all the time. Nobody that knows what they’re talking about would claim you can.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
For me, it's going for it now
I think we’ve got a pitching staff that could do all kinds of damage if they made the post-season. The only thing that’s going to hold them back is offense.
Burrell could be the power-hitting aquisition that makes the difference and he didn’t cost us a thing.
As I’ve said a bunch of times, I’d pull him if he’s ineffective and/or looks lost at the plate, but I want to see 150 PAs before making that decision.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
I agree with the “go for it now” mentality. But why Burrell, other than "look what he could do? What about the downside risk of Burrell not giving us that? What about the upside risk of Nate going on a tear?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Weren’t last year’s awesome trades and veteran love also sold as ‘going for it now’?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t understand why we went for it when they told us we were already in it.
The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.
Burrell is like Brad Penny
He’s a great freebie with a proven track record to take a flyer on and ride if he’s good. If he doesn’t work out, Nate (or Joey Martinez) is someone we can fall back on.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Except Penny’s peripherals were solid that year, and we needed a 5th starter. I have no problem with picking Burrell up. I have a problem with starting him over Nate in any situation (I’d be more on board with a L/R platoon at least).
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
this
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I can see the sense of taking a flyer on Burrell, especially as right handed power off the bench. My objection is that you don’t develop young talent by holding on to them as a fallback. If you want to develop the kids you must play the kids.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Obviously Renteria's bad year before signing with the Giants was a fluke too
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
And DeRosa and Sanchez just had fluke injuries before they signed
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
medical staff incompetence
is not the same as an outlier year
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Confound this!
That was supposed to be a reply to the Renteria post, not the one it ended up under.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Which evidence are you looking at?
In 2008 he hit .270 /.317/.382.
Since 2008, he’s hit .262/.317/.339.
I was promised lasagna.
owlcroft thinks you should completely throw out everything Renteria did 2008-2009 because he was hurt.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
what's speculation?
Rent was clearly hurt in ’09 at least (LOL BONE SPURS) (LOL GIANTS) (GET THE FUCKING SURGERY NOW MARK)
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
He’s speculating that if it weren’t for the injury, Renteria would have much better.
I was promised lasagna.
well, not really
but it is pretty intuitive, isn’t it?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
It’s intuitive that he’d hit better, but by how much?
If we assume that 2008 was a fluke, then Renteria “should” have managed a ~105 OPS+ in 2009. His actual OPS+ was 66.
I was promised lasagna.
what?
’09 was the year of the lolspurs.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
owlcroft thinks 2008 was a fluke. He says it’s backed by evidence.
The only evidence we have is 2009 and a tiny bit of 2010.
Ergo, owlcroft thinks that Renteria would have proved in 2009 that 2008 was a fluke if he hadn’t been injured in 2009.
I was promised lasagna.
ok, i don’t really see what that has to do with anything, since he WAS injured in 2009, we have no idea whether 2008 was a fluke. Also, the SF Giants medical staff is incompetent.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
What we know . . .
. . . is that Renteria sustained the first in a close series of injuries on August 2nd of 2007. The extent to which his performance was affected by those injuries is probably never going to be known to anyone but Edgar himself (if even to him), but it is not unreasonable to speculate that both 2008 and 2009 reflect performance that is not representative of a reasonably healthy player.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
OK
But then we’re back to your “based on the evidence to date.” Do you mean 2010?
I was promised lasagna.
Yes.
On the one hand, one cannot arbitrarily throw out data because it doesn’t fit with one theories about how the pyramids’ dimensions encode ancient wisdom or whatever, but on the other hand one cannot intermix data acquired under different conditions as if they were all fungible.
For 2010, Renteria was (we were told) again healthy. Till he pulled the hammie—something completely unrelated to any prior injury—he was playing like it, as if 2007 were his immediately prior season.
If he is not rushed back prematurely (hammies notoriously take a good while to heal properly), I would expect him (after a rehab) to pick up at something like his running season-to-date pace. Maybe not exactly like, but within reasonable random variance therefrom.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Also, while what you’re saying might be true, he’s still not healthy, so I don’t know what changed.
I was promised lasagna.
this time
he’s not playing while not healthy
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
One point – what’s the likelihood that Renteria gets injured in the future, or never fully recovers from past injuries? Old players get hurt, and don’t rebound from getting hurt. To some degree, we should expect that to continue to be a problem in the future. I do not know to what degree that is, though.
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Sort of true . . .
. . . but, I think, exaggerated. Older players do get hurt a little more often, and take a little longer to recover, but I think we need to emphasize that little part.
There are numerous performance-vs-age graphs around on the web, and none of them (especially the ones that distinguish era, because nowadays players are healthier older) show any drastic dropoff rates from any one age to the next year.
I realize that “performance” and “injury” are not the same thing, and I don’t right now have any hard numbers, but I really don’t think age makes a gross difference in probable availability over time.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
I don't think this is really the same thing
Huff had a HUGE BABIP swing from 2007-2009. Burrell’s actually stayed exactly the same 2008-2009.
Of course, Burrell was a much better hitter on balance in the few years before 2009 than Huff was in the same period.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Huff has been good so far, but it hasn’t even been half a season yet.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
SO YOU ARE SAYING!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Huff is one example. All you can do is play the odds, sometimes you can play the wrong odds and win, sometimes you can play the right odds and lose. If you want to argue we had our odds wrong, by all means, make a solid argument. If you want to argue one player not doing what we expected him to do on average is meaningful….well, then you’re missing the point.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Have you ever watched this team before?
Ever? This is 100% exactly what you should expect from them…not sure why it’s surprising. It’s obviously annoying, but that’s the way they operate
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Yep, and that’s why I’m angry, that’s why we’re not in the playoffs, it’s a problem, and heads should roll because of it. And you’re basically taking their side….
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Fuck off
no I’m not. I semi agree with one fucking thing they did offensively. Jesus christ.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Jesus Christ in the outfield!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with Jesus Christ.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Guess what
since he’s come to the Giants, he’s hitting EXACTLY in line with his career NL numbers. Yes, it’s 13 ABs. But whatever. He’s playing well right now. His approach is better than Nate’s has ever been. So he’s, you know, SHOWING it. It’s not something we have to “guess” at right now.
If he starts sucking? Sure, I’ll be there with you. But his track record suggests that he could be wayyyy fucking better on offense than Nate could ever dream of being.
Of course, the logical thing is to play him, nate, and torres and bench rowand. But we know that will never happen.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
This
Of course, the logical thing is to play him, nate, and torres and bench rowand. But we know that will never happen.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
13 ABs
13 ABs
13 ABs
13 ABs
13 ABs
13 ABs
13 ABs
13 ABs
13 ABs
13 ABs
13 ABs
I could probably find a few stretches of 13 ABs where he hit well in Tampa. Doesn’t mean much of anything.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
In this context I'd argue it does
because the counterargument is “well we don’t know!!!”, and actually we do. He’s showing that he has a better approach than nate. Even in 13 ABs you can see that he’s a better overall offensive player by quite a bit.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
13 ABs is like 4 games worth.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Wow, thank you
I didn’t know that! I totally change my argument!
I’ve already conceded that it’s a tiny sample. I’m not gonna try to re-hash what I’m saying..If it hasn’t been clear to this point then whatever.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
But you just CAN’T tell anything from 13 ABs. And even furthermore – he has a better approach than Nate? He hasn’t walked yet and he’s seeing 3.31 P/PA.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
This
Saying that Burrell’s time with the Giants is indicative of “OMG HE’S AN NL PLAYER GUYZZZ” is just confirmation bias
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Well
he’s going to be playing (lol bochy), and there’s a chance he’ll actually be good. And he hasn’t done anything yet to make me hate the move. I prefer to think of it that way.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Even in 13 ABs you can see that he’s a better overall offensive player by quite a bit.
So if I found 13 AB’s where Pedro Feliz was a much better hitter than Bonds…..what would that tell us, exactly?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Again, if you don't understand what I"m trying to say
then I’m not going to keep saying it. We can agree to disagree. The point is that Burrell is going to be playing for better or for worse. And there’s a good chance that it could be “for better”.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
It’s a bad move. If you choose to accept it, that’s your perogative, I suppose.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
What if Burrell is a good hitter?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
What if Burrell isn't a good hitter?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
What if Nate is a good hitter?
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
What if Nate isn't a good hitter?
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I would hit either of that
Or those
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
*wouldn't
Damn tired brain
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
What if older turds really are smellier?
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually would wager old turds smell less
Because as the turds dry out, wouldn’t their smells also start to disappear?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
I took his statement to mean the turds produced by older people.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Oh, then all bets are off
Have you seen what old people eat?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
LOL FOSSILIZED DINOSAUR POOP!!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
This should be Burrell’s nickname, imo.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Pat "The Coprolith" Burrell
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
This should be Burrell’s nickname, imo.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
This is a productive discussion
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Aug 12, 2009 to Aug 19, 2009 4G, 14 AB, 3HR .357/.357/1.000
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
In April Pat hit .254/.328/.441 (67PA/59AB)
In May he had ONE Rowandian week and got dumped.
At the point where Scott had 67PA his line was .328/.358/.563.
At least Pat’s line was reasonably close to his career line (.254/.362/.473 ), thus there was a possibility of an upside, but Scott’s line was preposterously unsustainable.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
Yes, it’s 13 ABs.
This is all you need to say, really.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
If he starts sucking? Sure, I’ll be there with you. But his track record suggests that he could be wayyyy fucking better on offense than Nate could ever dream of being.
His “track record” suggests, on average, he won’t be better than Schierholtz. That’s what projections tell us – what his track record indicates. Why do we care what he “could” be, if, on average, we shouldn’t expect him to be better than our other option? Why are we ok with the possibility of him sucking but not ok with the possibility of Nate failing? How does that make sense?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
oh my god
nobody is ok with the possibility of him failing. Stop saying that. Not once has anyone said that would be OK. I said THE EXACT FUCKING OPPOSITE OF THAT.
The point is that he HASNT failed yet. And he’s going to be playing. And there’s a good chance he could be a better hitter than Nate. So what the fuck. Your energy is better spent saying that Posey should be catcher, because that is WAY more blatantly obvious than whatever it is you’re trying to say.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
He hasn’t failed yet? Did the last two seasons in Tampa not happen?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
There have been arguments as to why he may be better in the NL
and they make sense to me. I’m at least willing to see how it plays out.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
they make sense to me
Interesting. The arguments are legitimate that he was DH’ing in the AL East. You only adjust his performance up in that case, though. The thing is, even adjusting for that, his performance still sucked.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
If you throw Burrell ten runs for his adjustment to DH
His line still isn’t impressive.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
I'm not looking at it from a statistical standpoint
because not EVERY SINGLE THING in the world can be calculated. I do believe that it would be really fucking hard to go from playing all the time to having 4 ABs in a game and that’s it.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
because not EVERY SINGLE THING in the world can be calculated.
I am pretty sure it can.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Not every single thing in the world can be calculated YET.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
True
That is why pi is so awesome!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, there’s the observer effect and the uncertainty principle and such. There are certain built-in limits.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Just b/c we aren’t advanced enough to calculate it doesn’t make it incalculable.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
what is the value of couch, hm?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Depends
Tim, or the thing you sit on naked in your mom’s basement?
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Numbers and averages aren’t always calculable because you can’t calculate couch?
I’m sensing some slightly faulty logic here. But that could just be MY logic…
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
I didn't say numbers and averages
please look at what I said. Not EVERYTHING can be calculated. I think there are certain instances in which you cannot get full meaning from numbers alone
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
I think there are certain instances in which you cannot get full meaning from numbers alone
Take a stat class. Can I tell you why leaves land the distance away from a tree in a bell shape curve? No. We’re not calculating those details, we don’t need to. We see the results, we get the distribution. What are you arguing against? Are you trying to say that the recorded results somehow differ from the actual results? (They don’t). That “statistics don’t tell us everything” misses the point entirely and shows no concept of what statistics DO tell us…..
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
You need to take a fucking debate class
because being a condescending douche is not a good way to persuade someone. You’re wasting your breath on me, because I buy into stats as THE way to measure baseball. But I’m not beyond thinking there are times when the stats will not tell you the full story.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
LOL
Don’t take this the wrong way, but I have to say that you telling someone he’s not debating in an unproductive way is kind of funny.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
*in a productive way
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Meh that's possible
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
But I’m not beyond thinking there are times when the stats will not tell you the full story.
Obviously! Nor am I! I have yet to see someone present anything non-statistical on this topic, though. By all means, if you have a point, bring it up, but don’t sit here and tell me there’s some weakness with statistics because you don’t understand the very basics of statistical theories and probability distributions.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I do believe that it would be really fucking hard to go from playing all the time to having 4 ABs in a game and that’s it.
….so we record what happens when people do that, and we have the results. I don’t get what you’re railing against? It’s probability distributions……this is stat 101 stuff…..it’s not some voodoo magic calculation, it’s just looking at, you know, what happens in real world events…..
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
And there's evidence to suggest that hitters get worse when they go from NL to DHing, no?
or am I misreading the situation?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Yep, I’ve acknowledged it many times. We see how much worse they do, and we apply that to Burrell.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Seems pretty simplistic to me
to ignore an ENTIRE CAREER of good hitting because of one bad season. And he’s old, but he’s not THAT old.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
How am I ignoring his career when I point to projections….?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
he hasn't failed yet with the giants
and he was only in tampa for 1.3 seasons.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
or in the NL for that mattter
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
1.3 seasons, 13 ABs!
OH MY GOD
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
L O S T
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
heh
that causes those damn horns to play in my brain and the word seems to drift away from me.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
"Quiet you, I'm starting a meme." - Me
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
This season was going to be in
line with his career numbers. Tampa just cut him too early after ONE bad week of May.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
So you think, at age 33, when players, on average, are worse than they are earlier in their career, that Burrell was as good as he was earlier in his career? What makes you think that? Because you toss out some of the numbers for no reason other than they change your conclusion?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
the thing is
at 33, players aren’t usually THAT much worse than they are earlier in their careers.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Well….obviously depends on your interpretation of “THAT”. I’d say they’re at the point where they’re just finally starting to get to the point where they have taken a meaningful step down. For some players, it will happen quicker, for some players, slower. Putting up the kind of performance Burrell has kinda indicates it’s more likely he’s on the faster/steeper decline….
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
to both of you:
GRAPHS OR IT DIDN’T HAPPEN
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
what is
wOBA_1 and _2?
is wOBA curve supposed to be OBA in following year? Because otherwise I think it’s shifted down a year.
Peak is almost always reported at 26-28 not 25-27 like this graph.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
goddamn tango tiger
and his impenetrable prose
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
the thing is
Burrell also derives a lot of his value from Power and Patience, skills which tend to peak late.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Patience, yes, power? No. It’s a valid point, not sure what effect we should expect from that, though.
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Disagree.
Power, as the ratio of TB/H (or HR/H, same curve but less friendly decimal numbers), does not decline notably. Medical science states that male muscular strength remains essentially flat into the late 40s or even mid-50s (sources disagree a trifle), but certainly well past BB-player retirement ages.
What ends careers is batting average, a developing inability to make good contact. But when good contact is made, it still flies. Shit, Luke Appling parked one in an Old-Timers’ Game when he was 75 (short distance, but still…).
So if Burrell can still make good enough contact to maintain his prior BA (not a notably high one), he has a good chance to be about as good as was.
Let us also remember that SSS has a somewhat different meaning when the sample is being compared to prior samples. If the small sample is in reasonably good agreement with much larger priors, that’s one thing; if it is in notable disagreement, that is another.
If I have purchased a thousand boxes of paper clips in a single lot from a given maker and found that they averaged 100 clips to the box with a relatively small SD, and I then go out and purchase another couple of loose boxes and find the counts to be 98 and 101, I am not surprised; but if I find the counts to be 89 and 86, I am more likely to suspect SSS issues.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
I don’t think it’s at all unusual for big slow guys like Burrell to gruesomely collapse in their early 30s.
To wit: six of the top ten PECOTA comps for Burrell:
Salmon
Tartabull
Sexson
Cecil Fielder
Jaha
Sorrento
That’s ugly.
LOL RICHIE SEXON'S BOBBLE SHOULDER
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Last year, I saw Roger Clemens’s 20 K game (the first one) on MLB Network. Danny Tartabull was playing shortstop. Or maybe it was second base. Anyway, it was bizarre to see.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Most of those guys had debilitating
injuries. Pat has not had a major injury since 2004 and no DL time since.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
hoisting you upon your own petard
Barry Bonds
Age 32 — .291/.446/.585 in 690 PA
Age 33 — .303/.438/.609 in 697 PA
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
Because performance curves like Bonds happen all the time
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
What about Ray Durham?
Who hit .289/.380/.432 at age 36 after a career worse .218/.295/.343 at age 35.
Rooting for the new Giants to be Stopgap Heroes.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
-Jiddu Krishnamurti
by SneakToBetterSeats on Jun 9, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
and was out of the league a year later?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
So?
Has nothing to do with the huge progress he made in his late 30s. Seriously why does it matter that no one wanted to sign him? He put up the numbers
Rooting for the new Giants to be Stopgap Heroes.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
-Jiddu Krishnamurti
by SneakToBetterSeats on Jun 9, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey, how about instead of looking at individuals, we look at what the whole population does? Wherever I linked to Tango’s aging curves is what you should be looking at. That’s how aging works.
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow, you can’t be serious.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I don’t think he’s serious most of the time.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Read better
So you think, at age 33, when players, on average, are worse than they are earlier in their career,
Also, betting on a player to follow the career path of Barry Bonds is always a really really really good strategy.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
You should learn to comprehend better.
So you think, at age 33, when players, on average, are worse than they are earlier in their career, that Burrell was as good as he was earlier in his career?
I think he could be better than he was at THIRTY-TWO!!!
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
I think everyone expects him to be better than he was at 32. I just don’t see the case he’ll be a worthwhile player as anything but a bench bat.
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Um, no:
“Hoist” means “blown up” and a “petard” is a crude bomb—not some sort of derrick. The engineer is hoist by his own petard, not on it.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Like so
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Well if you wanna be Shakespearean about it...
…the engineer is hoist with his own petard (or petar).
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
nobody is ok with the possibility of him failing. Stop saying that. Not once has anyone said that would be OK. I said THE EXACT FUCKING OPPOSITE OF THAT.
The point is that he HASNT failed yet.
At whatever point we decide to bench him, if he doesn’t perform to expectations – he will have failed.
And there’s a good chance he could be a better hitter than Nate
And the evidence I’ve presented says there’s just as good of a chance Nate is a better hitter than him, in addition to everything else Nate does much better.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sorry
I’m on board with stats in baseball, but I simply don’t buy projection systems as “evidence”. AGAIN: I WANT THEM BOTH TO PLAY. But in the event we have to choose one, I’m OK with it being Burrell. And since it’s GOING to be Burrell, no matter what any of us think, might as well hope for him to be good.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
I simply don’t buy projection systems as "evidence"
How? I’m all for quality arguments a specific projection might be inaccurate, but how can you simply “not buy projections systems”? I’m really at a loss here. It’s like me telling you “the expected results of a coin flip are 50% heads 50% tails” and you telling me you don’t buy it….
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
No
because in a coin flip, there are 2 outcomes. We know them both. That is not the same as projecting baseball, and you know it. There are so many different outcomes that I just don’t think there’s a reliable way to tell what’s going to happen. I think they could be used as a rough estimate, but wayyy too many people here use projections as some kind of gospel, and that makes no sense to me.
And yes, I know that this is where you’re going to say “Well there are more possible positive outcomes for nate than for burrell”, and you might be right. I’ll say it again since you don’t seem to get my argument: I WANT THEM BOTH TO PLAY. I would love to see Nate play more. Rowand sucks. They’re both better than Rowand. I believe they should both be playing over Rowand. It is my opinion that they should both be in ahead of Rowand.
BUT, I think that Burrell’s upside as a hitter is intriguing.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
There are so many different outcomes that I just don’t think there’s a reliable way to tell what’s going to happen.
Do you realize how many MLB games have been played? How many players have come through the league? How much research has been done on things like aging curves? We have thousands upon thousands of different outcomes we’ve observed thus far in the MLB population to date. It’s a pretty big population. We do have a pretty good idea of the probability distribution here. Now, maybe we’re missing relevant information, and if you have some, by all means, bring it up…..
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Nerdistic Bullshit
Just because the average person dies at 78 (or whatever) does not mean absolutely everybody is going to die at age 78. Statistical models can represent an interpretation of reality, but they are NOT reality.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
Pointing out someone’s misuse of stats is nerdy, dude!
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
(Except there was no misuse of stats, just a misunderstanding on the other end from someone who has no idea what statistics tell us)
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Just because the average person dies at 78 (or whatever) does not mean absolutely everybody is going to die at age 78.
This is PRECISELY what the study of statistics is. Probability distributions. That’s the exact point.
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions
To me what it simply boils down to is that at this point in time, we don’t REALLY know what we have with Nate. And with the arrival of Burrell, we’re not going to REALLY find out what we have with Nate. And prior to next season, we’ll dump Nate for pennies on the dollar, much like we just did with Frank… Something-or-other.
So we have to wait until Nate’s with a different ballclub to find out if he’s potentially starting outfielder material, because we need veterans so badly that signing any 30+-year-old was an inevitability. He has one or two weeks where he’s slumping and it’s DEFENSUV REPLACMENT!!!! Rowand slumps for a much longer period of time and it’s HEZ GUNNA HIT OUT OF IT!!! Using Burrell as a starter makes sense if it means less playing time for the worst-slumping player on the team (Rowand), but a lot less sense when you’re benching the guy who’s season numbers are STILL way better than Rowand’s.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
I'm starting to get pissed about this now, too
Fuck. With that and the posey thing I’m going to need a new heart by 25
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Yeah, just so we’re clear, I’m using the POV of management in determining that Burrell should start over Nate, not your argument. I saw where you said something to the effect of that you’d rather the two of them be used over Rowand. It’s the Sabean/Bochy POV that’s killing me.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
Yes
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
With me, I legitimately believe that however you want to look on it, we should expect Schierholtz to be better than Burrell overall, as well. Expected meaning on average, acknowledging the distribution curves of both of them.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
this
Schierholtz is a better player and a younger player, and it isn’t even close on either count.
I like my beer cold ... my TV loud ... and my romosexuals flaming.--Homer Simpson
If Burrell start swinging at pitches that are hitting him, ity's back to the bench
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Because I think this team needs offense in the worst way
If Burrell returns to his NL numbers, he represents a RHH power bat that not only makes other managers take it in to account, but makes the entire lineup better.
I’m a fan of Nate, but don’t think his potential impact is anything close to what Burrell could mean to the team.
If Burrell is really the 125 OPS+ that we last saw in the NL, then then he belongs in the lineup.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Seriously, lay out the full spectrum of possibilities, including the “mean” to me, and demonstrate that Burrell is better than Nate. And let’s think about the whole “Nate being cheap and around a while” angle while doing so.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
here's what we know
Burrell could be a dominant hitter and WILL be a bad fielder. Nate is a bad hitter and a very good fielder.
What does the team need more? Hitting or fielding? Because Nate is not going to “magically” become a better hitter than he’s been throughout his minor league career.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
And Burrell could be an actual legit #4 hitter
which gives the team an actual offense that doesn’t make us LOL
Torres
Sanchez
Panda
Burrell
Huff
Uribe
Posey
Rowand Nate or Renteria
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
I hear a whole lot of “could” without any consideration for what we should realistically expect…..
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
In fairness
You’re relying on what Nate “could” do in your arguments every bit as much as I am with Burrell.
The only thing that’s a given with Nate is his plus defense. There’s plenty to suggest he’s often over-matched at the plate.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
but HE'S saying it,
so he’s right, obv
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
You’re relying on what Nate "could" do in your arguments every bit as much as I am with Burrell.
Yes, except my argument is based on the full realm of possibilities. It’s that the sum of all possible outcomes in Schierholtz’s case is greater than the sum of all possible outcomes in Burrell’s case.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
The only thing that’s a given with Nate is his plus defense. There’s plenty to suggest he’s often over-matched at the plate.
Ha, it’s funny, because I agree with this completely, and it’s actually central to my argument. The part you left out, though, is this:
“The only thing that’s a given with Pat is his horrid defense. There’s plenty to suggest he’s often over-matched at the plate.”
Overall, I don’t see an argument that’s Pat’s bat, on average, is anything but slightly better than Nate’s. We know Nate is the better defender and baserunner. We know Nate can contribute surplus value in the future if he suceeds. Nate > Pat AND Nate can contribute in the future.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it’s silly to ignore the fact that Burrell had turned into something of a lardo while in Tampa and yet has appeared to be in great shape while playing for the Giants. I was totally against a Burrell signing before I got this latest look at him. The guy is an athlete again.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
What?
He was still playing for Tampa less than a month ago. He went from lardo to athlete in that much time? We need to get Bengie on his workout program stat.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Operation: Turd!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Now with improved polish!
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I have no clue.
But he looks like a completely different human being from when I last saw him. To be fair, I hadn’t watched the Rays in a while, so maybe he’s been looking better over the last few months.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
My memory could also be faulty.
But I remember seeing him a few months ago and thinking, “Wow, so that’s what happens when you turn 30.”
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
I HATE YOUR FACE!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
*haven't
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
I don’t think anyone would advocate ignoring it. Can we go a little more in depth as to the difference and what difference we should expect it to make?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Because Nate is not going to "magically" become a better hitter than he’s been throughout his minor league career.
His minor league career tells us he’s a slightly above average hitter. I don’t get what you’re going at? We need whatever helps us score more runs than the other team. It’s not a hard concept, that’s how you win games.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
He can't walk
he swings at pitches that fucking hit him. Twice. He is not a good hitter.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
He has done that. Not this year though. Are you saying it’s impossible for him to have improved?
Insanity is just a state of mind.
Not impossible, no
but he hasn’t exactly been awesome either.
As I’ve said, my preference is for both to start. I like Nate. But I’ve done a 180 on Burrell and I feel like he could really help the offense, god help me.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Of course, a lot of Nate’s not-awesomeness has come in the past month or so when he’s gotten almost no PT.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
HE HAD HIS CHANCE
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
And he put up a 102 wRC+. That’s a 2% better than average hitter, people…
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
If you’ve done a 180 on Pat because of 13 AB’s, that’s a mistake. There needs to be a reason beyond that.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Jesus christ
because as I’ve already said, the arguments for why he’d be better in the NL make sense to me. We’re going in circles here.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Except....
there are no reasons that he’d be better in NL. Or the ‘arguments’ that people suggest…are retarded. He is who he is, and that’s a terrible fielder and a hitter who has been horrible the last year and a half.
Ok
well that’s your opinion. I was asked to explain mine and I did.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
You’re allowed your opinion, but MissingBarry is also entitled to tell you that it is based on incomplete info.
Where is the discussion on the bandbox nature of the Phillies ballpark?
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Fuck that ballpark
It’s horseshit, just like its assfaced players.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
SHUT UP
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
SEARCH YOUR FEELINGS, YOU KNOW IT TO BE TRUE
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
SO IS HIS THOUGH
THAT IS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT. Nobody knows either way! Just because I"m not clamoring for the young guy to be starting doesn’t make my opinion somehow worse. That’s fucking bullshit.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Nobody knows either way!
Which is exactly why we have statistics! All you can do is play the probabilities.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I remember he actually hit a good deal better on the road his last year as a Phillie. Probably a fluke, though.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Yep, splits generally are a fluke, especially ones that involve guys hitting better on the road. Sample error!
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
There are reasons.
Burrell was fat as a Ray. He’s now in shape. It’s not unreasonable to think that this will impact his performance.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
did he magically get in shape in like the week between being DFA’d and getting signed by us?
steroids!!! LOL
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I have no idea what happened.
Bitten by a radioactive spider?
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Improving your physical attributes could be a real reason. Those things are things worth talking about.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
he was not a bad hitter in April 2010
by Giants standards and he was hitting his career average.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
For the record
.254/.328/.441 with a BABIP of .333 is actually pretty bad.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Yeah, but even “better” doesn’t make him “good”.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
The downside is that Burrell is a much better offensive player than Nate and we waste his bat using him as a PH twice a week.
That’s fucking stupid because Nate could also be a much better offensive player than Burrell. It works both ways. The projects put their mean at around the same place. Maybe Burrell goes out and puts up a .360 wOBA while Nate puts up a .320. But maybe the opposite is true! That’s exactly why it’s so stupid, for some reason it’s ok if the vet underperforms, but not if the young guy.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
And as I’ve pointed out, their mean projects are almost the same, which implies that the chances of one underperforming the other are pretty much equal! Even if we assume, for some reason, Burrell’s upside is greater while Nate’s downside is greater, the difference in their defense, baserunning, and the fact that Nate could be a long term asset, offsets it by a HUGE amount.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not going to debate with someone who resorts on personal insults
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
If the idea that I called fucking stupid is insulted, than I apologize to it.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
sigh
That’s fucking stupid != You’re fucking stupid.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
That’s fucking stupid.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s fucking, stupid that.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
That’s stupid, fucking.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
couldn't disagree more.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
If that's a personal insult
then a LOT of people I’ve commented to are offended
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Man, you can get in an epic range sometimes
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Sometimes he says mean things about Bochy and Sabean. Very mean things.
by Into the Void on Jun 9, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Someone ought to tell him that climbing into large ovens is dangerous.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
ikr
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
I’m thinking this is true.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
You are in an imaginary world where Nate is 100% healthy.
Except in the real world he’s almost never 80% healthy. Last year it was the hip, this year the shoulder (next year his neck, etc.) If he could play at 95%, the Giants would not need Burrell at all, but the reality is that for now Nate is helpless against the fastball.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
Since May 22, Nate has had more than 1 PA in 3 games. Maybe you’re right, but I just don’t see how you think you can come to a sound conclusion from that. I think you’re grasping at thin air right now.
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I just wish . . .
. . . we had some plausibly reliable information on his true physical condition. I keep seeing him being run out as a late-inning replacement or occasional pinch hitter, so I have trouble believing that his injury is still relevant.
What I’d guess happened was that he got hurt, it affected his play and batting, he got sat down, and then he discovered that the Giants’ bench is coated with superglue, such that his recovery didn’t matter. Virtually no one can produce effectively getting an occasional one-PA appearance. So the Borkian conclusion that Schierholtz is not a gritty gamer becomes a literally self-fulfilling prophecy.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Burrell's AT&T SLG = .538!!!
We finally got a legit power bat whose power is not negated by the particulars of our ballpark!!!
What the fuck is with you Nerds?
The numbers…THE NUMBAHS!!!
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
You’re criticizing the nerds for ignoring numbers?
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
for their hypocrisy at least
After years of groaning over the lack of dingers, here’s a guy whose thump isn’t inhibited by AT&T, and it’s “LOL Bad Defender; let’s start a dude who can’t pull the fastball instead”.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
Seriously?
He has 125 career PA at AT&T.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Better than 13!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
They probably all came in 13 AB spurts though!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
LOL SPURTS!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I think I just got 3 STDs looking at this picture
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
lol
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
YOUR PUSSY IS JEALOUS!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
It’s not any of the good arguments you guys have made that are making me waver, it’s hokysmokes position on the matter.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
So, the opposite of plenty
Protip: Numbers and you aren’t friends. Just stick to your guts and feelings and clutchitude.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Why would it change based on whether the player is home or visitor?
That’s the statement an eight-year-old makes.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Why would it change based on whether the player is home or visitor?
That’s the statement an eight-year-old makes.
You answered your own question there, eh?
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
I was afraid someone would say something along those lines.
/squinty-eyed glare
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Seriously, R U REDARTED?
Take a look at Pablo Sandoval’s home 2010 splits.
Home - .328/.368/.500 in 125 PA .241/.304/.348 in 125 PA
Away -
That’s a relatively SSS, because a couple of 7-8 game hitting streaks can be entirely contained within a single homestand and 125 PA is about 2 months’ worth of homestands. However, a visiting NLE starting player with 125 PA accumulates PA by playing one 3 (or 4) game series per year — which takes about 9 years. The sample size is large enough over a long enough period to factor out the possibilty of him having visited in the middle of a single lucky series which would skew his numbers. Over a nine year stretch, Pat would have had to play series in which he was hot, series in which he was cold, and series in which he was meh.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
You should know: splits are generally worthless, and 125 PA’s do not represent a large sample. That’s 1/4 of a season. That needs a whole heck of a lot of regression.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
You ARE retarded.
125 PAs for a visiting NLE starter represents NINE seasons.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
I don’t know that this is the single stupidest thing I’ve ever read, but it’s got to be at least in the top five.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Pretty sure you guys are falling in the chasm.
Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott
Definitely not
Hokysmokes has a history of this level of retardation.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Yup
We need a stupidest comment of the year award. I don’t care if it’s mean spirited.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
an NLE series can happen any time of year
For example, if a player is an historically slow starter (Mark Texeira, etc) and the annual series was always on the April schedule, one would expect his batting line to be bad. If that series is always scheduled for July, you’d expect a better batting line. However, scheduling can have a series happen any month from April to September in any given year. Thus having a good batting line as a visitor over a nine year stretch in 3-4 game increments is a much more useful sample than 125 PA as a home player over 4-5 homestands in a single season.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
Sigh. That point actually hurts your argument. Given how much talent levels change over 9 seasons, that devaules a lot of those 125 PA’s quite a bit. Even so, what you’re not getting is it’s about sample error. 125 PA’s has a very large sample error.
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions
In 23 games from April 17 to May 13 this year, Nate hit .346/.411/.494!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
And if Nate's shoulder wasn't banged up
he might still be hitting over .300. But the facts are that it is, so he’s not. The next best option is Pat Burrell. All other options are in AAA.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
If Nate’s shoulder is banged up to the point that it’s affecting his performance that drastically, he should be on the DL.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree, but the next best RF defensive option
is Torres, which means Rowand in CF. The next dude in line is Huff. After that you have to reach down to AAA for Bowker.
I’m for whatever has less Scott in it.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
Have you actually read this thread? There is no unified opinion on Pat Burrell.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
I think we all agree on what his nickname should be.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Pat "The Coprolith" Burrell!
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
here’s a guy whose thump isn’t inhibited by AT&T
AT&T doesn’t supress RHH power….
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
He looked much improved earlier in the year, when he was actually getting regular time.
Insanity is just a state of mind.
It takes longer to get loose as you get older.
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
TWSS
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
He actually looked a lot better with strike zone and count control this year in the few at bats he actually got. At least to my eyes. That might mean nothing. But it means something to me….
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
/swings and slider low and in
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
SSS STATS:
2009: 308 PA’s: K%-20.4%; BB% – 5.2%
2010: 134 PA’s: K%-13.7%; BB% – 9.7%
Progress
01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey
Wave them home Tim Flannery, wave them home.
Are those supplied by the Simplified Spelling Society?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve heard that before, that someone who starts and plays a position in the NL for years (9 years for Pat) sometimes has a hard time adjusting to not playing between ab’s. It can ruin focus and what not.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
DH’ing, in general, is expected to lower players performance. Of course, there’s the whole “he was a DH for a reason, because he gives back tons of runs in the field” part of things….
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
ugh
looking at his UZR vs. his RZR reminded why I hate UZR. His 3 worst UZR seasons are his 3 best RZR seasons. RZR makes sense to me intuitively – rate of success on plays most fielders at the position make, and number of plays on balls that most fielders wouldn’t get to. UZR is clouded behind a fog, and I have no idea why there’s such a big disparity in this case.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I have no idea why there’s such a big disparity in this case.
Sample/measurement error. That there are one year disrepencies isn’t alarming at all. If there was a large career discrepency, that’s when you should be concerned.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
well, in Pat's case there clearly is
his 3 years where he was alright by UZR he was terrible by RZR, and his 3 terrible UZR seasons, he wasn’t bad (not good, mind you, just not bad) by RZR
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I forget the details of RZR, but I think it might do a poor job controlling for how easy the plays were. If you only have two zones, there’s very little control for how easy the population of in zone v out of zone balls hit to you were….
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
probably true
it’s just really odd seeing a .200 point jump in RZR accompany a 10 point drop in UZR/150
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I can’t get past the “if Buster Posey is starting at first” part. It’s much dumber than giving at-bats to Velez, honestly.
I am still pissed about this
and will be all season. I honestly hope Molina gets injured. I’m sorry it’s come to that, but it would be better for everyone.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
and not like "pulled muscle" injured
because Bochy will start him any ways. But, like, career over injured. He’s like an old dog that just needs to be shot behind the wood shed.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
You know what would be cool? Posey at catcher, Burrell in right, Huff huff in center and Bengie in left.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
LOL
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
June comes, and Schierholtz was lost in a tragic schooner accident.
Ha ha ha ha. You dumb bastard. It’s not a schooner… it’s a Sailboat.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 9, 2010 11:01 AM PDT reply actions
THERE'S NO EASTER BUNNY!!
That’s just a guy in a suit!
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Matt Cain" = TRAGIC MAN, ISN'T PATHETIC
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jun 9, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I got a lot better at these after i learned how they worked
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
how DO they work?
goddamn sail boat…
We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan
Miracles
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
seriously tho
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autostereogram
When the brain is presented with a repeating pattern like wallpaper, it has difficulty matching the two eyes’ views accurately. By looking at a horizontally repeating pattern, but converging the two eyes at a point behind the pattern, it is possible to trick the brain into matching one element of the pattern, as seen by the left eye, with another (similar looking) element, beside the first, as seen by the right eye. With the typical wall-eyed viewing, this gives the illusion of a plane bearing the same pattern but located behind the real wall. The distance at which this plane lies behind the wall depends only on the spacing between identical elements.9
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Sounds like the reason I can’t do them is because my brain is less bad at matching the patterns?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
To the contrary, I beileve it’s other people who have broken brains.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure those things don’t actually work. Total emperor’s new clothes situation. FAKERZ!
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
true story
since I only see out of one eye at a time (strabismus, thank you), I can’t ever see these. Or 3d movies
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
+1 for strabismus
I hate those damn things.
"Liberal is to the media what the 2008 San Francisco Giants are to good baseball."
-My Father.
by thecrippesking on Jun 9, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
upside
better peripheral vision. I’ll take it
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Word.
"Liberal is to the media what the 2008 San Francisco Giants are to good baseball."
-My Father.
by thecrippesking on Jun 9, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
My left-eye dependency leaves me in a similar Schooner.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I see what you did
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
SHIT
Never mind, I think it’s a map of Burundi.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Wait, now I see the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
I acutally have no idea what it's supposed to be
I just GISed magic eye
If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.
OH SHIT I ACTUALLY SAW IT AND IT WAS A SAILBOAT
(I had to open it in another tab because the page kept autorefeshing)
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
oh right
I forgot – I searched for “magic eye sailboat”
If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.
big image
I think this one is easy, and fairly informative. Look at the two kings in the middle. Then as you start to look past them, you should see them moving towards each other. Once they settle right on top of each other, you have it.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
That's clearly not a legal formation
I mean, one side has four kings and the other side has none? What’s up with that?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
what's cool with this one
in 2d, there are 4 kings, in 3d there are 5
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
quiet you.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Nerd.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
it was on the autostereogram wiki page i linked above
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Trickery -- there are no kings on that board
kings have crosses on top
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
quiet you.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Not if you're nervous about your chess playing abilities.
Or if you have small children.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)
by victor frankenstein on Jun 9, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretend they are under-30 outfielders and your name is Bruce Bochy.
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
by EliminateMe on Jun 9, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Focus your eyes like you’re looking at something a few feet farther away
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Quite possibly
My favorite movie of all time.
“I also home to cum laude one day, preferably in a ’69.”
I fear that Nate Schierholtz is hurt, but “not hurt enough to get surgery, damn it.”
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
Just needs to find the right spit-to-dirt ratio. Also a little veteran grit wouldn’t hurt.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
He should start siphoning some extra grit from Huff.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 9, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Rowand will stop hitting like Barry Zito any day now
Hey now, Zito is a professional hitter
OSH Baseball Tip: Your hair? It's dumb.
He got like two RBI the other day.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s more than Rohlinger and Burrell have.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I watched the Reds feed (it was all I could find) when Zito pitched and the Reds announcers were going on about how Zito is one of the BEST bunters in the league.
I never thought of him as a particularly good bunter. Better than Sanchez, sure.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 9, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
So much bizarreness from which to choose
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher?
And there’s still so much season to go!
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I mean, it’s only a matter of time before a Huff injury and a Renteria return put Posey in LF while Sandoval shifts over to 1B and Uribe moves over to third.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Painful to read because it's true
Actually made me wince hard.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher?
nah
I think they’ll bench Uribe and try to squeeze him in a couple of starts a week at SS.
by Into the Void on Jun 9, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
the thought of benching Uribe for Renteria
considering the way each of them have played the last two seasons – it’s just mind-boggling
If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.
get ready!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Posey Will Be Playing Left Field For The Giants By July
Book it!
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jun 9, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
If you know this organization
none of these are particularly “bizarre”
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
God this franchise makes me so angry. Nothing makes sense. There is no plan. This is the same bullshit we’ve been putting up for years, but even worse than normal. When are they going to lose their jobs already?
I think this pic describes the Giants organization pretty well.
They get build a team ignoring all warning signs and predictive stats and then they are surprised when it stops working or doesn’t work.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
And to fix their mistakes, they go right back to the same crappy strategy.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Bourbon. Screwdriver. Fixed.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Unfair pole is unfair.
I can’t vote more than once?
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
Grant’s pole is perfectly fair.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
why don't they call in the fair pole?
if it hits it, it’s fair
If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.
Not enough sun?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
The Zito comparison is funny
and sad at the same time.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 9, 2010 11:11 AM PDT reply actions
But mostly just funny.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
I can't choose
It’s a baffling clusterfuck of misery. Pass the bourbon.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I guess I’m a little late to the party here, but I’m surprised more people didn’t vote for “taking the job from Bowker after a couple weeks”, which is what I voted. Sure, I get that many folks thought something else was weird, but that to me was the most depressing move Bochy made. On a team that clearly was lacking in slugging, he chose to bench the one home-grown player who had exhibited at least the potential to be a power hitter.
Granted, he didn’t do a lot of slugging when he was in there. And he still seems to be too pull-conscious (much like Nate and Aubrey, for that matter). So he still has some things to work on. But given his 2009, I’d think the 2010 Giants, starving for power, would at least give him a longer opportunity to get going. They’re sure giving Molina and Rowand a long time.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Taking the job from Bowker ties with giving the job to Bowker and cancels itself out.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
No way
Giving the job to Bowker was the reasonable choice at the beginning of the year. Signing DeRosa to be your other outfielder, instead of Nate: now THAT was the debatable choice. I understand the choice they made, but there’s lots of room for debate.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
On Saturday, we may be saying this whole sentence in All Caps.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
The fred lewis thing was LOL
But giving gino velez 100 at bats and using him as a defensive replacement was… something people should get fired over. One of the worst decisions in sabean bork history.
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
…and he even played a bit in center.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
Job Security
Something sabean and bochy are unaware of, as is the rest of the giants owners.
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
BALLS BALLS BALLS!
I hate the mindset of our organization!!!!
mehhhh…..
Where’s the damn “all of the above” button….
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 9, 2010 11:20 AM PDT reply actions
this
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
Part of the problem...
When you list out each of the above names, not one of them stands out for me as a guy of whom I’d say: “Here’s a guy I expect to be a productive Giants outfielder for the next five years or more”. They’re all more in the category of either “suspect-prospect”, “washed-up”, “damaged goods”, “stop-gap”, or “Dear God, NO”. Here, see for yourself:
- DeRosa
- Rowand
- Bowker
- Huff
- Schierholtz
- Lewis
- Torres
- Velez
- Burrell
Actually, the one guy I think I could’ve put in the 5-year category was Lewis.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher?
I really wanted to vote for
“Not getting a real RF in the first place”
But I don’t think that was really a decision so much as an epic fail. They did “get” one… Mark DeRosa (well corner OF, but same difference). They were just a lil’ confused about the definition of “real”.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
But Baggarly told us on KNBR that Bochy identified Rowand as one of his CORE guys! If you’re a core guy, that means you’ve got to be pretty damn good, right???
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
I believe
technically it means that it’s center. In the case of apples, it’s the part that you throw away.
(Velez would be the seeds – the part that poisons you if you eat enough of them)
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
this baby is with the crowd (35%)
in voting that the squeeze of Shierholtz is the most mysterious of all the mysteries. With relative success scoring some runs recently (and getting runners on) it has been possible to let this particular management oddity alone when we rant.
But the man absolutely has contributed when he has played. It is odd that his banishment began soon after his dazzling games against the Phillies. Maybe he’ll play some more when the Giants get back home, where right field is a unique challenge. But I doubt it. It’s all about the bats, and Nate’s is unproven.
Of course, if he had Rowand’s last 100 AB’s, they would have produced more offense. I feel sorry for the guy. He doesn’t deserve to be a pinch runner.
Proud father of Alex and Fred Lewis.
I ain't denyin' there wasn't no bottle.
That’s why I voted Schierholtz getting squeezed, too. It happened when he was a productive player and Rowand was not, and it continues even though Rowand is still sucking really, really badly.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Yup. It’s one thing to have a double standard, but this is stupid.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
I figured Eugenio and letting Fred go would be a tie.
by Into the Void on Jun 9, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
like i said above
it’s really the combination of the 2 that got me. Getting rid of Fred I could kind of see in a vacuum if you think he’s worse than Nate and Bowker, but then playing Velez? WTFM8
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
yes
selling FLew for a sack of baseballs might have been the worst decision of the bunch, but it was hardly the most bizarre or unexpected.
The Org. infatuation with Velez can only be described as “bizarre”, however.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
once again
I just can’t get over the fact that Nate and Lewis and Bowker didn’t all start 150 games in 07 and/or 08 and/or 09 so we could have found out if they were any good. (oh yeah, Lewis did that in 08 and was pretty good). So there’s the problem – even if they prove themselves over the course of a full season, they still don’t get the benefit of the doubt the next year.
If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.
Because people somehow convince themselves that it makes more sense to see if Burrell can give us something than Nate. It doesn’t. It’s horseshit.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, SNAP!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s not about Nate being special or not. It’s about uncertainty, it’s about planning for the future, finding out what you have. You think Burrell is something special….?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
+1327546273680
I find it really annoying that after 3 or 4 years we are still debating about Nate and Bowker without much of a difference in MLB at bats sample size.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
And the worst part is Burrell presents the exact same risk as Nate! Only Nate plays better D! Only Nate can be a valuable piece in future years if he’s productive, since he makes nothing!
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Absolutely
We should already know what we have with Nate and John. It’s the idiocy of the previous 2 years that have put us in this position.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
And worst of all, starting Pat over Nate is that exact same idiocy.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
i have to agree, even though i was intrigued with the idea of acquiring Burrell.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
I don’t mind the idea of Burrell at all…..as a bench player. Burrell the starter? Given our options, no thanks.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I think neither have a place on this team in coming seasons
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Burrell does not. Nate may or may not. Nate, if he does, is cost controlled. It’s like your acknowledging that Burrell could be better, but not the possibility that Nate could be a MLB starter. Probability distributions – both of them could over and under perform, but if Nate overperforms, that makes him a valuable assset this year and in the future.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I can’t see Nate being an major league caliber hitter.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Are you Brian Sabean? I just flat out have no idea how you can say that? He’s projected to be an above average hitter. He’s been an above average hitter this year. Saying “it’s not the most likely case” is one thing, but denying the possibility altogther? That just doesn’t make sense.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
“Projected” by whom/what?
Also, his OPS+ this year is 96, which is, of course, slightly below average.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
102 wRC+.
Projected by both Zips and CHONE, for instance. Bill James projections, as well.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
So basically, depending on which system you use, he’s approximately average. I think it’s a stretch to call him above average, except in the most technical sense.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
His defense makes him above average (okay, not an above average HITTER, but still above average); having that speed and arm in RF is huge.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
Good defense in RF makes him a neutral defender (since RF is a offensive position), so overall that’s still only average.
I was promised lasagna.
Good, Cookyman is here. Have you decided which turd you like better?
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
lol
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Burrell or Schierholtz?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I choose Fred.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Man, I thought I wouldn't miss Fred that much because Bowker and Nate were here
:-(
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Ha, silly, if Fred taught you anything, it’s that they were going to get the Fred treatment. It’s so inevitible and predictable.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, depends on how good we’re talking about. +7.5 makes him an average defender overall. +10 makes him an average CF defender.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m Brian Sabean and you’re the one getting excited off of 100 ABs of .274/.361/.385 which includes 8 BB’s batting 8th?
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Excited? What am I excited about? How is this about 100 PA’s? I’ve presented evidence ilke: Burrell and Nate are projected to hit the same….which is based on every PA……but yeah, whatever, clearly, I’m all excited about 100 PA’s. Or I just recognize the same failing strategy and don’t completely ignore the possibility of one guy doing better than expected while using the argument that the other guy can “bounce back” to be better than expected?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
As he said above, you don’t have to be a SSSer to prefer Nate. All of the major projection systems like Nate’s bat more than Burrell’s for this year. That’s even before you get into the fielding.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Compared to Rowand or Molina this year he is. A very good defender who wouldn’t need to hit much to be valuable. Much like Randy Winn. Plus I’d much rather watch him play than those two.
Insanity is just a state of mind.
And Burrell is?
I dunno, I would expect this Burrell support from you. :\
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
And does the fact that Nate is a ++ defender and Burrell is a -——- defender mean nothing?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
They do
I just don’t see any upside with Nate’s bat. I think he’s terrible.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
And I think that’s the problem, you simply aren’t acknowledging the possibility that he does better than expected, but you will acknowledge it with Burrell for some reason.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Burrell HAS had success at the major league level for extended periods of time. Nate, not so much.
I’m still bummed that Nate got squeezed out, but I don’t see Burrell as being a terrible option, if he proves that his bat is back near where it used to be. He was a hell of a hitter for a long time.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 9, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Can’t be a good MLB player without MLB success. Can’t get MLB success without being a good MLB player. Yeah, I get it.
I don’t see Burrell as being a terrible option, if he proves that his bat is back near where it used to be
“I don’t see Nate as being a terrible option, if he proves that his bat lives up to his minor league numbers”. What’s your point?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Nate has never shown much penchant for taking walks, even in the minors. That is the main reason that it is difficult for me to see him being a very productive hitter. He also hasn’t been able to hit for power yet at the ML level.
Burrell has done both.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 9, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
And yet, his minor league numbers still indicate he’s expected to be a slightly above average hitter….
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
No they don't
They make him look like Bengie Molina with the bat.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
/Looks at Nate’s above average projected line that’s 100% based on statistics
?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Go look at his minor league translations
They’re ugly.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
His MLE for his last full year in the minors was a .791 OPS?
With plus defense in RF, how is that bad?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
.313 OBP
And as a lefty, his power won’t translate well to our park.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
And yet, the projections, which are completely based off minor and major league performance, project a .339 wOBA. Funny how that works.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually
Some projections aren’t based off minor league numbers and just regress to the league average when there are only small samples to deal with at the MLB level.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
ZiPS and CHONE both use minor league numbers
So does CAIRO and the Olivers.
The only one I know of off the top of my head that doesn’t is the Marcels, but Tango intended for it to be the most basic possible projection.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
I can’t remember if those (ZiPS, CHONE, CAIRO, Olivers) adjust for park factors. Anyone know?
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Olivers definitely does
CHONE and ZiPS iirc. CAIRO I’m not sure, I’d as SG at the Replacement Level Weblog.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
.308/.355/.516 is NOT Bengie Molina.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
The MLE around .280/.310/.450 is
That unadjusted line in Fresno is awful.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Godawful, even
AL East and DH have a significant effect though, I believe.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
As does not playing full time, as Schierholtz hasn’t.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously? The DH and the AL East are enough to turn a 125 OPS+ hitter into a 79 OPS+ hitter?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Ray Durham.
Good players can play terribly over a season.
Ray didn’t even have the League switch + DH excuses
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Sure
And good players can also get old and fall off a cliff.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I keep hearing this
yet you see VERY few examples where it happens so sharply. There is age related decline, but there’s nothing magical about turning 32 that turns a 125 OPS+ hitter into a 79 OPS+ hitter either.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
No question that Burrell’s decline was much sharper than you would expect. But the thing is, it happened.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
so did Ray Durham
and Aubrey Huff, for that matter. I’m not saying Burrell is still in his peak, but you can’t look at 1.3 seasons that are a clear outlier from his career and attribute the entire decline to age. It’s ludicrous.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
So is expecting him to be a 125 OPS+ player again because of 13 ABs!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Good thing I'm doing that!
wait what? I’ll put it this way. I’d put down a good amount of money that he’ll be closer to 125 OPS+ (or 120 wRC+, pick your poison) than 79 OPS+ / 82 wRC+.
And not because of 13 ABs.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
honestly, I think he’s probably an averageish hitter at this point and with his defense, it’s not worth the time.
I do think he’d be a great pinch hitter though! I’m fine with him in that role!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Can we just give him a chance to prove it one way or the other, though?
Call me crazy, but I still believe Burrell has something left in him.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 9, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't worry about that
Burrell is clearly going to get a chance to prove it, right or wrong.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Can we just give him a chance to prove it one way or the other, though?
Call me crazy, but I still believeBurrellSchierholtz has something left in him.
Why does it make sense to let Burrell show us what he has and not Nate?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
It doesn't make sense
but you’re rooting for the Giants. So if you want your baseball team to make sense, become a Rays fan.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Yeah, sense would be benching Rowand and letting both play. But the Giants aren’t interested in making sense.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 9, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
bingo
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
I think you're both right
In a perfect world—no, wait… actually, it doesn’t even have to be a perfect world; just one with even a tiny dollop of sanity—the Giants would’ve stuck Nate in RF last year and given him a fairly uninterrupted stretch of 400-500 PA’s. But they didn’t. And they don’t. And they won’t.
So we continue on with some of us believing that Nate has something to offer, and some of us believing he doesn’t. Me? I’m in the second group. But I’d be pleased as punch if the Giants would actually give Nate a chance to prove me wrong. But they haven’t. And they don’t. And they won’t.
And until they do (and they won’t), we’ll be left to interpret his minor league numbers, his SSS major league numbers, and what we’ve seen with our own eyes (hopefully in that order). And we’re going to draw different conclusions and have different opinions that, sadly, are based more on conjecture than hard evidence.
So you think Nate has something to offer, and you want to see him given a real shot. I DON’T think he has anything to offer but I’d STILL like to see him given a real shot. Because that’s the only way to find out for sure, one way or the other.
And, by the way, giving guys like Nate an honest shot is the right way to keep faith with the players the Giants draft and sign. I mean, how must it feel to be an outfielder in the Giants organization, and watch how guys like Nate, Bowker and Lewis are treated?
That all being said, Nate isn’t getting a shot, and he’s not likely to get one. And the way he’s being used, he’s not likely to do much to earn more playing time. So I think it makes sense for the Giants to get a guy like Burrell off the scrap heap. Burrell is a guy who has the potential to hit for power and get on base—two things badly needed in the Giants lineup. As long as the Giants are going to let Nate and Bowker languish, I think picking up Burrell and giving him some AB’s is a good idea.
Personally, what I’d really like to see, (at least for this year), would be:
Torres CF
Sanchez 2B
Pablo 3B
Huff 1B
Buster C
Uribe SS
Burrell LF
Nate RF
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher?
by tobias on Jun 9, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
me as well
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
What it comes down to for me is I simply can’t be ok with something on the premise of “it’s what the Giants do”. Yes, you’re right, that’s what’s going to happen, and maybe Burrell is the best option given The Giant’s Way™, but I’m not ok with The Giant’s Way. It’s fucking stupid, and I’m not going to judge them on the D curve they’ve set for themselves.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
This
Sums up my feelings on the Giants. Exactly right, and well put.
Also, I sit squarely on your side in the Nate v. Burrell debate of ’10.
Me too, but I’m more of a Nate Should Get Playing Time At The Expense of Rowand’s Playing Time kind of guy. Burrell might just be the type of power bat the Giants need, and that would be awesome to find out. But this should come at the expense of Rowand and Molina (so Huff can go back to 1st and Posey behind the plate). Not at the expense of the guy who’s OPS+ at least SNIFFS 100 and provides very good defense. And is STILL an unknown quantity.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
how the giants have treated guys like
their treatment of Scheirholtz, Boser and Lewis is bad, and you could worry about home grown local boys done good/Mediocre utility talents like Frandsen., but then add on two young catchers not allowed to develop at their positions in the bigs. The entire minors must be looking at the Posey situation and saying “fuck, better get some time at other positions”.
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
"Because I don’t know what it means anymore, in the PCL. It’s almost like years ago."
there’s nothing magical about turning 32 that turns a 125 OPS+ hitter into a 79 OPS+ hitter either.
And I don’t think anyone would suggest he’s a 79 OPS+ hitter now. What it tells us, on average, is that’s he’s a lot worse than 125. I wouldn’t expect him to be at 79 or worse right now, I would just expect him to be much, much lower than 125.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
If . . .
. . . it was the start of the 2009 season and the G’s had just somehow acquired Burrell, what honestly would you have expected his value to be? And why would we think it would drop like a rock a mere year later?
His 2009 BABIP was 25 points below his career, and both his power and his walks rates—things that do not change much over time nor from age—were notably under his career levels.
Whether Burrell today is equivalent to the Burrell of a year or three ago remains to be seen, but I’d say the data suggest that there are decent grounds for hope.
The problem, of course, is not arranging a decent outfield: it’s the presence of Rowand, not Burrell that’s the issue. Leave Torres alone in CF and let Burrell and Rowand split some time, along with Schierholtz, until and unless one (or more) of them falls out of consideration even with decent playing time. And keep an eye on Bowker.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
And why would we think it would drop like a rock a mere year later?
Well, his performance was pretty bad. And we know old guys get worse. Like I said, of course I think he played under his talent level last year, but a new data point from last year to this year that bad does give you good reason to value him much less.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Well . . .
. . . it depends on the extent to which we assign value to one data point. Quite aside from the nontrivial possibility that there were real-world reasons for his problems other than innate ability, there remains the reality that players are almost sure to have one or two outlier seasons for no good reason at all (regardless of whether the outlier direction is up or down).
If it happens, as it can, when the guy is in the minors, it can mean—depending on the direction—either a good career short-circuited or a useless git being carried for years because “we know he’s good”. If it happens mid-career, not much is made of it. But if it happens late-career, it’s analogous to H. L. Mencken’s remark that “When a young man cannot remember where he left his hat, it is generally accepted that he has lost his hat; when an old man cannot remember where he left his hat, it is generally accepted that he has lost his mind.”
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
It’s also that we’re always just getting samples, so each new sample changes our estimated mean…
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions
also matt holliday
wasn’t THAT bad, but he wasn’t even a DH and he was wayyy worse in Oakland.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
and has bounced right back since returning to the NL
and he wasn’t even in the AL East
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Really? his numbers so far this year are almost identical to his half season in Oakland.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
His overall numbers with STL are right in line with what he did with the Rockies
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
And his performance in Oakland isn't that far off from what he did in Colorado
What’s your point?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
I don’t get why we bring up individuals. We can look at what the population as a whole does. Yes, performance, in the present, improves with a move from the AL to the NL. So we take that into account and bingo, we’re playing the odds right.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
He lost over 100 points of OPS when he went to Oakland
I think that’s significant
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
See right below
he lost about 11 points of wOBA. That’s like 5-6 runs over the course of a full season, which is significant, but not ZOMG HE SUX.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
*park-adjusted wOBA
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Dude was good in Oakland
.389 park-adjusted wOBA. Not exactly the ~.400 level with the Rockies, but still good
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Thomas had at least one good season in Toronto still
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
What a shock that his numbers as a DH would be worse, when the majority of his playing time as a DH came later in his career.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
also conversely
That most of his PT as a 1B came during his ridiculous prime.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
MLEs are basically crap. I wish I could find the Dave Cameron article that explains that.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Also
I’d definitely trust CHONE or ZIPS before I’d trust a raw MLE.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Whoa there now...
I think Cameron’s point wasn’t that MLE’s are crap… just that they’re open for abuse and you have to weed it through your BS detector
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Recall . . .
. . . that MLEs are no more or less “exact” than actual major-league play time; a year in the minors can be as flukey, either way, as one in the majors. My own experience with MLEs, many and many a year ago, was that they worked fairly well. Real-world decisions were made based in part on them, and they mostly turned out well.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
And yes, while those are valid points, so is Burrell being old, worse than before, and sucking over his last 600 PA’s. Nate doesn’t have that working against him.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm going to break out a little math
Let’s say Burrell hits like he did during his last season in Philly (not that I expect him to, but I feel like this is the absolute best he’ll do). According to Statcorner park-adjusted wOBA, he would be worth 16.7 runs above average per 600 PA’s. Let’s also say that Nate hits at a conservative -5 per 600 PA’s. That’s a difference of about 22 runs.
Now for defense: Burrell’s career UZR/150 is -7.8. Ignoring aging (oldjacket, help me out!), let’s call Burrell -8. Now, Nate’s career UZR/150 is 23.1. I have a hard time believing Nate is one of the greatest defensive outfielders of all time, and he’s only had about 1290 innings (or its equivalent) out there. I’ll regress him about 50% of the way toward average to about 11 runs. That’s a difference of about 19 runs.
So: basically, the difference between the best case scenario for Burrell and a conservative estimate of Nate is about 3 runs in Burrell’s favor. Nate please.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
by baetown415 on Jun 9, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 8 recs
bravo
but there are people here who simply don’t want to get that. Apparently , Pat is going to turn into Jeff Kent circa 2.0, logic and numbers be damned.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
This is the type of information that needs to be communicated
between the GM, the Manager, the Agent and the player when decisions are made.
The problem with the Giants is:
1. This is far above their level of effective understanding
2. Its apparent from the Frandsen, Posy, Lewis, Bowker, events just from the past year, that the Giants don’t even communicate in basic “baseballese”, let alone statistical measurable data to their chattel. Chattel being any player who has not yet reached 6 years of MLB service.
by E Ticket on Jun 9, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
But Schierholtz is taking walks in the majors this season. Maybe it’s just a fluke, but maybe he has fixed the single biggest flaw in his game. I’d like to find out.
THIS
He actually has been working on pitch recognition and has a higher walk rate lower K rate. I want to see if this is real
01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey
Wave them home Tim Flannery, wave them home.
And that requires consistent playing time. Baseball is an endeavor of rhythms and routines. Getting PT based upon such things as the size of Bochy’s boogers after a 3 game series in Arizona is not conducive to such. And particularly younger players.
That is why you hardly ever see a young guy coming off the bench in late innings on contending clubs. Certain old farts do not require 9 innings every day to be at the peak of their efficciency.
by E Ticket on Jun 9, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
This is such an important point glossed over way too often. We never give our young prospects a large sample of consistent PT. The evidence is out there – playing sporadically negatively effects your performance. Yet we dismiss these players based on small samples and 500 PA’s worth of sporadic PT….sigh.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes. And its an obvious one if we only take the time to consider it. Thats a problem sometimes…the context in which the data is being presented.
by E Ticket on Jun 9, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
You touched on this upthread
But Nate has actually shown better patience year… like a lot. Like…. a 7.5 unintentional walk%, a 30.3% outside-the-zone swing % (down from 44, 37, and 40 the past three seasons), and an increase in pitches per plate appearance to 4.01.
Do I think he’ll keep it up going forward? I’m not sure. But he has definitely shown a change in approach this season.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
dont forget about the gloves!
in soviet russia, run scores you!....and giants still have terrible offense
by slackersphere17 on Jun 9, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, forgot about those!
Where’s Giantsbabe? She was all about Nate’s lack of gloves…
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
We'll see
Or maybe we won’t…anyways, the majority of those walks came in the 8th spot. So I imagine there are more than a few walks that were scored as unintentional that were anything but.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Takes 200 PA for walk-rates not to be SSS.
http://saberlibrary.com/more/sample-size/
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
That was the real problem
Not giving these guys a shot years ago.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
But we’re repeating the same pattern, right now. We didn’t give them a shot previously for the exact same reason we’re not giving them a shot now – because we had other shitty veterans who were not part of the future, who we decided to play instead. It’s like somehow it’s more ok if Burrell, Rowand, Winn, or whatever other old guy who won’t be around long term sucks than if Nate sucks. Somehow an old guy hurting the team is less bad than a young guy hurting the team. Maybe because management can somehow wipe the blame off them more? I don’t know.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
But they’ve been left to stagnate over the past few years through piss poor management. At this point, their upside is gone in my mind.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
upside doesn't just go away
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
You don’t think so?
I’d say most players have a window where their upside can turn into actual ability. Some go through the window. Others, the window closes.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 9, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
i mean it does eventually
but not at 26
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Of course it does
What a bizarre thing to say.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
They all suck
None of the people listed will play OF for the Giants in 2012, that’s how badly Sabean and company has constructed the outfield. Maybe Gary Brown will solve it all….
/Win the inning
//Renteria - Still not a VD but I crush a lot
///Willism is Realism
The thing is
A lot of these options aren’t that bizarre. Stupid? Absolutely. But bizarre? Not really, especially when you consider them in the light of the kinds of moves the Giants usually make.
Would you really expect them to squeeze out Rowand, a gritty vet gamer, for a bad soldier? Or for them to not give Velez 100 AB when he comes up and immediately gets a handful of RBIs and HRs in his first few appearances?
This organization makes decisions like that all the time. My vote was for benching Bowker, as I thought they would have stayed with him longer after his scorching hot Spring Training SSS.
Ha, you’re right in that it’s so fucking predictable. In terms of making sense from a baseball perspective, it’s incredibly bizarre. In terms of operating under The Giants Way™, it makes perfect sense.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
really
the only one that’s “bizarre” from the Giants standpoint is giving VROOM 100 ABs
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Not when
you look at it through their viewpoint. Velez got hot for a little while last year so they let him play most of the year for one good month. They were hoping he would do the same thing this year. It’s the same reason Nate and Bowker can’t stay in the lineup- until they have a really good month-long stretch the Giants organization will opt for other options, including overpaid veterans who will slump through the entire year.
by Into the Void on Jun 9, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Not really
Velez was hot from his July callup through maybe mid-August: .356 /.396/.544 over 21 games.
Through May 14th this year Schierholtz hit .341/.408/.489 in 32 games (22 starts).
Surely if the first set of numbers are good enough to warrant more playing time, the second are as well.
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
yeah
I guess what I was trying to say is it’s weird how attached the Giants org. is to that one Velez hot streak.
by Into the Void on Jun 9, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
My Parental Duties...
As his adoptive father I’m legally required to stand up on his behalf. That being said,
SOMEONE NEEDS TO FUCKING PLAY MY FUCKING KID OR I’M GOING TO FUCKING GO INSANE!!!
Ducks stackin' wins like Leggos, toastin Pac-10 like the Eggos, like we're racin' against some preggos, Dan Patrick we enfuego. Free Schierholtz!!
Speaking of
Can I adopt Santiago Casilla? Dude is awesome.
My little brother went to prom with Nate's little sister in mid May
he may be responsible for Nate’s slump
by ThePasswordisWillieMcgee on Jun 9, 2010 11:42 AM PDT reply actions
STOP MAKING PORNS WITH NATES SISTER!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Had this realization recently
I was pissed after hearing Baggs make excuses for Sabean’s crappy management on KNBR and I started to write and email that I never finished.
Anyway, (and wjackalope just stole my thunder, but) the realization is that Schierholtz should have been starting in RF since 2007.
First issue, why the eff do you sign a light hitting OF who can play CF and not play him in CF? Randy Winn should have been the CFer until last year. Bonds was still around in 2007, but the team was going no where, as marcello notes, we should have known whether or not Lewis or Schierholtz could be productive major leaguers before 2010 started.
Schierholtz had nothing to prove in AAA, he hit well in the majors, he supplied the requisite Defense that team management requires out of the a RF in ATT.
Other than the Winn thing, my biggest argument in the unsent email is that position players rarely come to the majors fully formed, they still need to be developed. The team has done a fine job developing hitters up until AAA, but they are terrible at making them actual major leaguers… even if we believe that these guys are not that great, every team is able to hit on at least one guy, the Giants seem to strike out on every position player for the last 5-7 years…. that can’t just be luck, it has to be organizational incompetence. The odds are that at least one player (maybe that is Pablo) would buck the trend and be a real major league hitter.
Tough call
But I had to go with Velez. With all the other guys they either have been productive major league players at one time, or looked like they could be. Velez is just inexplicable.
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
GET THE FUCKING SURGERY ALREADY, DAMMIT
From Schulman.
No DeRosa surgery for now
Lest anyone think that Mark DeRosa’s return to San Francisco for another medical evaluation was just a pit stop toward the operating room, I’ve been told that for now he and the team have decided to hold off on surgery pending further tests.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 9, 2010 11:57 AM PDT reply actions
Can’t risk letting Schierholtz play. Just in case Rowand continues sucking, DeRosa will be back just in time to take his place!
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Why are the Giants the only team who don’t believe in medical science? Argh.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
I heard that drinking radioactive water boosts your health!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I heard exposure to radiation gives you super powers
and you can use them to fight crime while wearing a costume
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Science isn’t old enough.
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jun 9, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hear Trinity College has DFA'd Isaac Newton
We could pick him up on the cheap!
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
Leibniz would never let him play, though.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
THEY ARE TRYING LEECHES
You need to give those things time to do their magic!!
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher?
derosa knows we like our gritty vets hurt and useless
in soviet russia, run scores you!....and giants still have terrible offense
by slackersphere17 on Jun 9, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
can a player opt out of his contract?
or something? If I was DeRosa I would just walk away, have the surgery, and lose the 12 million.
If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.
No way I would, this might be his last contract over the veteran min.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah I know
I guess what I’m saying is that if I was him, I would DEMAND that I get surgery right away
If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.
the ricky williams offensive
in soviet russia, run scores you!....and giants still have terrible offense
by slackersphere17 on Jun 9, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm the most upset about Bowker
The Bowker we saw in 2009 in AAA would be an extremely valuable player on this team. Either put him in the OF for a couple months to find out whether he can duplicate that performance in the majors or release him so he can find a team that will.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 12:00 PM PDT reply actions
Yes yes!
Exactly. A slugging OF drops in our laps, and we decide to give him a 15-day trial and then discard him. Unbelievable. Unless he inherited the incriminating photos that Frandsen used to have.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Wouldn’t possessing incriminating photos be a reason to play him?
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Well,
…it didn’t seem to work for Kevin. Only made Sabean angry.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
IMO, Frandsen and Bowker have poor blackmailing skills.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
“Give us what we want, or we’ll sell these pictures of you!”
“No, give those pictures back to me!”
“Okay. Sorry.”
“Yeah, your ass is benched!”
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
really bad VORB
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Matt Cain numbs my pain
He’s like human Whisky
I'll punch Greg Evigan in the beard if I ever see him!
OMG KID SEEN DRINKING FROM BEER BOTTLE AT PHILLIES GAME!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
close
thats just danny devito
in soviet russia, run scores you!....and giants still have terrible offense
by slackersphere17 on Jun 9, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I would have voted for "Continuing to play Rowand every day when he's one of the worst hitters in the league"
If it was a choice.
I mean, geez. Sabean’s been looking for a speedy leadoff hitter/center-fielder forever and now that he has a productive on in Torres, Bochy still trots out Rowand like he enjoys watching terrible ABs.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
it said "bizzare" decision
not “utterly predictable but still stupid in that Giants way” decision.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
I guess my answer is built into the "squeezing Schierholtz" answer, but to me Rowand and Molina playing is a crime
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Squeeze
I was gonna vote for this, but then the last choice (Signing DeRosa) struck me as a winner. Even sans his injury, he was only ever appealing as a super-utility guy, not the position that is supposed to be your 1st or 2nd best hitter.
"That sort of thing only happens to white people."
- Kirby Puckett joking about the fairy-tale nature of his friend, Cal Ripken Jr., homering in his final All-Star Game
Not quite fair:
You need to separate his career into the part-time and the full-time eras. In the full-time era (2006 and on), he—not unexpectedly—hit quite significantly better, and would have made a decent make-do left fielder. By “make-do” I mean not so good he would be a standout, but good enough to not constitute a hole. Overall, maybe FLewis’ performance-level offense though with the components arranged a bit differently. (Actually, now that I look at FLewis’s performance, I reckon I should modify that to “what once looked like FLewis’s performance level”, since he is now playing well below those expectations.)
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Full time era
But even his full-time eras featured a pretty good split between IF and OF time. It seems to me that Mark DeRosa’s value always leveraged his flexibility.
"That sort of thing only happens to white people."
- Kirby Puckett joking about the fairy-tale nature of his friend, Cal Ripken Jr., homering in his final All-Star Game
Hmmm….you think Lewis is playing well below expectations? What expectations did you have for him? My expectations were a 1.5-2 WAR player, which I think is how he’s playing so far…..
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions
He uses a RC-based stats that seems to value OBP a hell of a lot more than any Linear Weights-based stat.
I was promised lasagna.
That's sort of weird
Because RC underweights OBP a ton. Like… almost OPS levels
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
What he uses . . .
. . . is a formula that values OBP just right, or so he thinks. He has a graph to suggest that he has a point (scroll down to the image). As it notes below the graph, that it is accurate at both the extreme lows and the extreme highs of scoring suggests that all the component elements are being weighted appropriately.
(One reason it works better than many “RC” type formulae is that it explicitly takes into account what I think of as the “compound interest” nature of OBP: it increases the probability that any given batter will become a run—something that all RC formulae recognize—but it also takes into account that an increased OBP means more batters coming to the plate in a season, so that there are more men to have that increased chance to score.)
I evaluate individual men by applying the same team-scoring formula, except with the small-ball stats (SH, SB, CS) all forced to zero. The result is not an arbitrarty relative ranking, but a number that is the number of runs an offense of nine clones of that man would score under a manager who disdains small ball. (I won’t here get into the arguments about interactions with other men in a real-world lineup because that’s too far afield.)
FLewis with the Giants looked like about an 850, which is respectable but not dominating for a corner outfielder; for 2010, he is doing what he did in SF for 2009, which is barely breaking 700. His power is up a little, but his walks rate is literally half what it was—I guess the Giants taught him well what has value and what doesn’t. (His hits rate is roughly unchanged.)
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
rx'ed!
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
like he enjoys watching terrible ABs.
Maybe he does. Reminds him of his playing days.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 9, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
A couple days ago a friend of mine emailed me and wondered which was the worse signing, Zito or Rowand, and just thinking about it got me so worked up I responded thusly:
Rowand is BY FAR the worse signing. I didn’t feel this way a year or two ago, but I do now. At least with Zito he’s pitched a lot better the last couple years, his curveball is back, he’s never injured, he gives them a solid 30 starts every season and goes 6 innings or more most every time out. I mean, he’s not truly a #2 starter, but I could see him winning a playoff game if the Giants ever sniff the post-season again.
Rowand chases sliders in the dirt, has decent but not awesome range, and a total noodle arm. I’ve never seen him throw someone out at home on a sac fly, EVER. Even on a shallow sac fly. Worse still, Bochy keeps playing him through slumps, even though Andres Torres should be starting in CF every night. His OPS is 300 points lower than Eli Whiteside, the goddamn backup catcher. And he still has $30 million left on his contract. Just writing this paragraph is filling me with rage. I hate the guy.
Giants Baseball: TORTURE
Rowand has entered Feliz territory for me
I just can’t stand his ABs so much, that I irrationally hate him completely and want him gone forever.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
He definitely is
When Feliz was hacking away there were no better options, now there are.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, Rowand doesn’t have the excuse of being Caribbean.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 9, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
But he did go to the Bahamas once on spring break.
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
He spent the whole week hacking at slop, no doubt.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 9, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
June 9th, 2008.
Aaron Rowand’s line: .325/.393/.519 in 239 PA’s.
Selected comment from McCovey Chronicles:
AAron Rowand has earned every cent of his 5 year 60 million dollar contract is 5th in the nl in batting and is leading the gigantes with 8 hr and had 36 rbi’s 2 boot.
June 9th, 2009.
Aaron Rowand’s line: .307/.368/.487 in 220 PA’s.
Selected comment from McCovey Chronicles:
Scott is the best position player on the team.
June 9th, 2010.
Aaron Rowand’s line: .225/.254/.382 in 182 PA’s.
Selected comment from McCovey Chronicles:
I think he might be even worse than Feliz at this point.
Rowand should have never been signed. Schierholtz should play more often. Rowand’s quest to become the least patient hitter in the majors is scary (and would be successful if it weren’t for a bounced-back and hackier than ever Vladimir Guerrero).
But baseball is a silly sport. Players can play for 2 months like crap, and then continue like it never happened. Players can make the AS team and end the year with a .696 OPS (name that player!). They can hit .283/.331/.549 in half a season as 22 y-o rookies, only to later be (rightfully) called “the worst 1B in the league” by some random blogger.
Just give it time. He’s a lot more likely to return to his 2008-2009 average than his to be anywhere near as bad as he is now.
I was promised lasagna.
omg you quoted me
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Remember that time where you brought up Grant's idea (iirc) of Lincecum for Wood and Kendrick?
That was awesome
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Randy Winn 2007 .300/.353/.445
Randy Winn 2008 .306/.363/.426
Randy Winn 2009 .262/.318/.353
The Giants should have benched Randy Winn 2 months into 2009. They didn’t. “He’s going to come around” they said.
He never did, and the Giants lost the West in large part because of lack of production from RF and C. I am not saying Aaron Rowand is Randy Winn Part II (ok, I guess I am saying that), but with his wFB/C at negative 2 months into the season and trending downwards since 2007, it is fairly obvious to me that he has lost bat speed and is now completely unable to turn around on a good fastball anymore. The only chance he has is hitting breaking balls that are mistakes in the zone or accidentally run into a slider tailing away to the opposite field.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
It would be fine to keep playing Rowand if there were no other options.
There are other options.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
No. The Giants would just be better off taking the automatic out by batting out of order whenever his spot came up.
by E Ticket on Jun 9, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
OK. Let’s make a deal. We’ll look at all the instances where someone was arguing anything, and I, (or someone else, if you prefer), objected, with his or her only rebuttal being “small sample size”. I am willing to bet anything in the world that, looking back, we’ll see that whoever pulled the SSS card ended up being right the vast majority of the time.
Do you know that Rowand’s striking out less than he did in each of the last two years? His contact per swing percentage is up too. It seems to me pretty unlikely that he could lose bat speed, start chasing significantly more balls than he used to, and somehow improve his contact rate.
Is it possible that he’s Randy Winn 2.0? Yes, definitely. But the question is if it’s likely.
I was promised lasagna.
You are arguing “regression means Rowand will get back to his career numbers”
I am arguing “regression means Rowand will get better, but still much worse than his career numbers”
We’ll find out. Unless he is benched forever, in which case, we won’t, but I’ll be happy.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I’m not arguing that at all. First of all, only an idiot thinks he knows what will happen in the future. I can’t tell you what Rowand is going to hit; I can only tell you what I think Rowand is likely to hit, and – most importantly – why I think that.
Second, I didn’t mention his career numbers; I mentioned his numbers with the Giants. There’s a difference.
And third, I don’t necessarily think that Rowand will hit as “well” as he’s hit in 2008-2009, either; just that he’ll be a lot closer to that than to what he’s hitting now.
I was promised lasagna.
Fair enough. What is acceptable level to you? I guess I really need to know that before I can say whether I think he will hit that.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
And I would argue that while Rowand is the worst-hitting outfielder on the roster right now, and Molina is probably the worst hitting player on the roster, why wouldn’t you bench them more often so that Schierholtz can get in playing time in the outfield and Posey can do some catching?
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
that's why
it’s regression TOWARD the mean.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I was merely speaking aesthetically. Watching Rowand hit is even more miserable than watching Feliz hit, which I didn’t think was possible.
He’ll probably go on a hot streak at some point. I doubt he’ll ever again get his OBP over .320 for long.
LOL .320. Aramis Ramirez went on the DL this morning. Aaron Rowand now has the lowest OBP among qualified MLB players in the entire league.
NUMBER ONE. IN THE WHOLE FUCKING LEAGUE.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
HE'S NUMBER ONE!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
OBLIGITORY
Molina is Number 2!
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
Greates One-Two punch in the historyh of the game!
by E Ticket on Jun 9, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Is it wrong that I read that as Goatse Two Punch?
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Going through the next part of that gamethread...
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
I don’t even remember writing that!
But I’ve done a bunch of those over the years. I should do a fanpost collecting them sometime.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
The one I remember best is when I rewrote “The Future” by Leonard Cohen to be Bruce Bochy’s ode to gritty vets.
And the end of Molly Bloom’s soliloquy as a pro-Giants signing Manny Ramirez rant.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
I think his range is more than decent
and comparisons to Whiteside are silly since nobody expects Whiteside to maintain a .900ish OPS.
Other than that, though, I agree.
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
I don’t think it’s more than decent for a CF. For OF’ers overall, sure.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
UZR seems to disagree
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I’m not sure that it does. Looking at him since he’s been on the Giants, he’s put up a barely above average UZR. Throw in a little age regression and I’d put him at slightly below average. I also think it’s weird he’s never played anything but CF for us….
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Sad Panda
“Sandoval swings at everything — the bat boy, the concession stand guy, everything,‘’ a scout said. "It catches up to you eventually unless you’re Guerrero. And Vlad is built differently. He’s a tall guy with long arms. Sandoval isn’t.’’
For a short guy with short arms, Panda still seems to drive pitches low and outside off the plate. In fact, based on observation only, that appears to be the ONLY pitch he’s hitting right now.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Winner!
Torres cf, F.Sanchez 2b, Sandoval 3b, Huff rf, Uribe ss, Burrell lf, Posey 1b, Whiteside c, J. Sanchez p
it’s close. Move Posey to C, Huff to 1B, and Nate to RF and it’d be as good as we can hope for.
by Into the Void on Jun 9, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Except Posey should be #3
And Sandoval should be #6.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Huff to left.
Nate to Right.
Boo yah!
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jun 9, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Lineup time! No Ro, no Mo.
Torres cf
F.Sanchez 2b
Sandoval 3b
Huff rf
Uribe ss
Burrell lf
Posey 1b
Whiteside c
J. Sanchez p
They could be Giants...but not really.
WTF WHY IS WHITESIDES CATCHING IF FUCKING POSEY IS ON THE 25 MAN ROSTER!!!! WHY CAN"T POSEY CATCH AND NATE PLAY RF!!!!!!!
I HATE THIS FUCKING KEEPING PEOPLE FRESH BULLSHIT!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Posey can’t catch because Sanchez would suck without Whiteside.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously
If the team really believes that Dirty can only effective if Whiteside is catching him, it’s time to trade him….and Whiteside becomes more valuble as part of a package.
Speaking of packages, I wonder if Whiteside has frosty colored pubes
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Ha, I assumed it was a joke because it was such a horrible lineup?
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m okay with this lineup.
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jun 9, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not. I understand bringing POsey up for the offense and not starting him at catcher b/c you feel your current catcher is doing a good job, but to not start Posey over whitesides is 100% inexcusable!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah
If Posey is your everyday catcher of the future, he’s gonna have to start catching these guys at some point.
Unless they plan on trading Sanchez.
by The Double Deuce on Jun 9, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Well obviously, Posey should be catching but if the alternative is:
Torres RF
Sanchez 2B
Pablo 3B
Huff 1B
Uribe SS
Bengie C
Rowand CF
Burrell LF
I’m okay with this lineup.
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jun 9, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Or it could be
Torres cf
F.Sanchez 2b
Sandoval 3b
Huff 1b
Uribe ss
Burrell lf
Posey c
Nate RF
J. Sanchez p
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
You’re thinking too logically. I’m thinking as Bruce Bochy.
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jun 9, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Looking at hteir numbers
starting Whiteside is more defensible than starting Molina
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
We need to get him his RBIs while his contract is small
that’s where the money is
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
I voted for the first one
The Giants should have signed a real outfielder during free agency. And if they didn’t want to do that, then stick with either Schierholtz or Bowker through thick and thin.
I’d rather have had the Giants stick with Schierholtz. His fielding ability alone should make him the everyday starter. If he slumps, then so what. Panda has slumped and they haven’t sat him down on the bench yet.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
All the options . . .
. . . are valid choices. I do sort of feel that the current vote distribution is about right. (I picked playing Velez.)
If we get away from the tired (literally) idea that an OF is three guys who play every day, and conceive it as four guys who rotate on some sane basis, we probably ought right now to be seeing Torres, Schierholtz, Burrell, and—sad to say—Rowand. (One could—as I have posted on other threads—slightly tinker the rotation so that Torres gets a little more time than the others.)
Excluding Huff, who ought to stay at 1B with Posey catching, who on the current squad is any better than those four? The Rowand bashers exaggerate his stinkiness; I am no friend of Rowand, and want him gone, but I remain confident that he will eventually go on A Hot Streak© and look not good, but rather less awful. Meanwhile, if Burrell looks like tanking at the plate, then I’d call up Bowker and try him. (Or if, Heaven forfend, Rowand could be moved, ditto).
I mean, that’s it: aside from Torres almost for sure and Schierholtz we hope and Burrell we pray, what is there? In a better world, DeRosa would have been a plausible alternative, but this is what we’ve got here and now.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
I previously subscribed to your theory on Rownad
…but the subscription ran out and I didn’t renew
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
I’m sure it will happen, I just don’t think it will be enough to make Rowand an option that deserves PT.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Burrell and Rowand are probably about equally valuable at this point. I’d still bench both of them against RHPs …
Wow, really? You’re basically expecting Burrell to outhit Rowand by 20-25 runs.
I was promised lasagna.
I’m in this line. I expect Burrell to be around average or so I think. I expect Rowand to be under that by quite a bit. Not sure it makes up for the defensive difference.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn it, didn't see the Fred Lewis option at first and voted for giving the job to Bowker.
Well, that is the second-most bizzare decision the Giants made.
Bandwagoners are the prostitutes of fandom.
I couldn't vote
None of the options seem bizarre for the Giants. I guess starting Huff in the OF is kind of bizarre.
Back on the market.
by positiveuphemism on Jun 9, 2010 12:42 PM PDT reply actions
Burrell vs. Nate
“This old dried out white turd smells awful”
“No! This younger fresh turd smells way worse”
“That is stupid! Older turds have had time to fester and build up their smelliness ratio!”
“What are you talking about?!? Young fresh turds still have that ‘new poop’ stench about them!”
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 12:44 PM PDT reply actions
LOLars
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
I wonder if this would still be the case if the Giants hadn't assured a split in this series.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
avoid the sweep!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Maybe its a condition of the Joey Votto trade they are announcing after the game tomorrow.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Shhhh
It’s supposed to be super secret….
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Maybe its a condition of the Joey Votto trade they are announcing after the game tomorrow.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
this please
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Maybe its a condition of the Joey Votto trade they are announcing after the game tomorrow.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
that was a weird double post. I had to refresh to actually see it.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 9, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Looking at the poll options, I am not really sure which is the most ’bizarre"….. They all seem pretty standard for the Giants.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond, Brian Anderson.
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jun 9, 2010 12:50 PM PDT reply actions
was the LOL line up released yet?
/aaron rowand in the line up since bengie is out
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
scroll up
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Incredible
No bengie or blowand in the line up, this hasn’t happend sice blowand was injured YAY!
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
THIS SHOULD BE BURRELL'S NICKNAME IMO
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
No, “The Outfield – McCovey Chronicles.”
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
“The Outfield – McCovey Chronicles – Mozilla Firefox is having a heckuva series so far….”
by Grant Brisbee on Jun 9, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
my confession about the Pat Burrell situation
This is the kind of thing that normally drives me crazy when the Giants do it, but Burrell is a former white whale of mine, and thus I can’t bring myself to be annoyed in this case.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Heh, he was my biggest white whale for awhile, but I really don’t like this.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Oh, I don’t LIKE it. I just don’t have the emotional response I normally would.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
I like Pat Burrell on a non-Bochy team right now, and he’s a better fit for the bench than Bowker. I just needed to include him in the poll to minimize rabbling.
by Grant Brisbee on Jun 9, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Grant likes to stir shit up
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
You should see it when it’s maximized!
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
Thanks!
/smokes cigarette
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
HEY THATS BAD FOR YOU!
/eats fastfood
Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott
This is how I feel
I never really liked Burrell, but for whatever reason this isn’t pissing me off. Maybe it’s because I was so pissed off about Uribe’s signing and he turned out to be awesome. IDK.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
I still like him
And I hope he only gets only weakly-hit balls to him and he hits like he did in 2007… but I still am irritated about him being the starter.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Hey, like 509 comments and they’re all pretty much about baseball.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
OT - lunch
I went to this Tacqueria in Vallejo that was alright. Had a decent carne asada tostada. But they didn’t have any Pacifico at the place. I was muy disappointed.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Wow, it’s 1:10 already. Damn.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
There's still at least 12 potentially productive hours left in the day
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Fuck that!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Hence "potentially"
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
It is?!
I doubt that. If it is 1:10, then why am I still sober?
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
it’s 2:20 now and I still haven’t done shit today!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
More fiber
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Where, and what was it called? I might have eaten there in my lifetime.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Where as in streets and stuff. You already said Vallejo.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
It's where you get onto the 29 from the 37
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Ah. I have not eaten there. But I do know where you mean.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
If you've eaten at a good taqueria, skip this place.
I only stopped there because I was driving by.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Los Amigos?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
I’m making a ham sandwich right now.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Panda Express.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 9, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
BBQ pulled pork sandwich
I’ll be burping happiness all day.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
That sounds awesome
Where from?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Just from our cafeteria at work
It is really good though, even though it’s from a cafeteria.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I might go get some pulled pork for dinner now
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
I highly recommend it
There’s never a wrong time for BBQ pulled pork.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I assume from his gut.
It’s best not to pry too closely.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
We should fix that
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
OT:Job
Anyone remember my post about a copywriting interview a week or so back? Got the job! Suck it, haters!
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Awesome!
Congrats
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
It is awesome.
But now I have to, you know, do stuff.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Welcome to the working week
/Elvis
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I love that song.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Congratulations amigo(a)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Nice!
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Congrats!
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Congrats!
I sent in a resume for a job in my home town on Monday but haven’t heard back. What’s the correct protocal? Should I send a follow up email. Call them?
Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott
I’d go with the email.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Congrats.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Congrats!!
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 9, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
hey lineup has no molina or rowand!
Torres CF, F. Sanchez 2B, Sandoval 3B, Huff RF, Uribe SS, Burrell LF, Posey 1B, Whiteside C, J. Sanchez P.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/detail?&entry_id=65402#ixzz0qOBiBPoB
LOL late
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
What!!
the baby is full of joy as he heads off to have a far back tooth removed using only a flat blade screwdriver. No rowand. . . . no molina
My insurance covers the bottle of bourbon.
As suggested earlier, all game posts from bt this evening should be “understood.” Thank you for your indulgence.
Proud father of Alex and Fred Lewis.
I ain't denyin' there wasn't no bottle.
I think you’ll be ok. None of us will be able to see the drool dripping from your novocaine-deadened cheeks.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Just back . . .
. . . and the drool is mixed with interesting swirls of coagulated blood and pus, sort of like this website.
The caine still rules, but not for much longer. I apologize in advance for any crankiness.
That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t seek counselling, especially on non-game days.
Proud father of Alex and Fred Lewis.
I ain't denyin' there wasn't no bottle.
BREAKING NEWS
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 9, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of The Outfield
Which is the better track, “Your Love” or “Say It Isn’t So”?
I vote for “Your Love.” Great, Boston-esque vocal harmonies.
Giants Baseball: TORTURE
I like “Your Love.”
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 9, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Hawt!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I saw that coming a mile away.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 9, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
TWSS!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Good luck with your interview, dude (if it hasn't already happened)
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Josie's on a vacation far away. Come around to talk it over.
Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott
It really is crazy how much better our lineup could be as a whole if the Giants would just play Buster at catcher
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Agreed, that one decision has so many consequences
It makes a completely inefficient offense and defense.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Hopefully Bengie is benched or traded soon.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
YOU JUST HURT HIS FEELINGS!!!!
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Marcello, you’re adorable.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
I believe if Posey plays C, myself and yourself will be in agreement about what the starting lineup should be….
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup
Really, this is all Bengie Molina’s fault, and the anger and vitriol should be directed at him.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Haven’t seen this posted anywhere else: Bruce Bochy’s shitty lineups.
Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott
Honestly
When we play Schierholtz, and get this
Torres
Sanchez
Sandoval
Huff
Uribe
Posey
Schierholtz
Rowand
It’s by far my favorite Giants lineup since I don’t even know when. It’s not good, don’t get me wrong, but still.
I was promised lasagna.
I like that ilneup, too, though I might be willing to accept Burrell instead of Rowand (I’m unsure which I think is better at the moment).
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL BURRELL
“What I see is an offense that is more than capable of scoring runs. I just look at the lineup. There are so many guys who are capable of driving in runs, guys who can get on base. We just need to find a way to harness it and run with it.”
LOL WUT
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Break out the harnesses and track shoes!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Run with it? Has he seen how this team runs? Burrell, Huff, Molina, Pablo, Uribe……shit, with Nate not playing, Posey is the second best runner on the team.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
We just need to find a way to harness it and waddle with it.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Strap-on offense.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
No Holes Barred Mentality
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Bare Ass Knuckles
/Sports Bar touted by Ralph Barbieri
by E Ticket on Jun 9, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
We’re harnessed to this thing!
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
they ARE capable
in the same way they are capable of assembling a crack time commando team to go back to 1936 and assassinate Hitler.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
What, he’s gonna come to a new team an say ‘I think we’ll be in the bottom three of runs scored again’?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
That would be pretty funny
And pretty honest
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Incidentally, the draft is going to end in a few minutes.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Today’s high in Tallahassee: 97.
IT’S NOT EVEN ACTUALLY SUMMER YET ARGH!
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
You know what cookie-based confection tastes good on a sweltering day?
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
I hate you and your ass face.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
I DO also lack access to that confection. We must focus our hate together, and at everyone else here.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Does this mean rotorueter could eat a cookie and it would actually be going up his/her butt?
Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott
Sphincter chewing
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
UNPOSSIBLE!
My phone hasn’t rang all week!
Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott
You’ll probably be taken with the very last pick!
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Hasn't "rang" . . . .?
. . . and cookies haven’t swam up rooters butt.
Proud father of Alex and Fred Lewis.
I ain't denyin' there wasn't no bottle.
and our last pitch is...
…Golden Tate, CF, Notre Dame.
Best name we’ve taken all draft! GOLDEN MOTHERFUCKING TATE!
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Isn’t he a WR too?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Drafted by the Seahawks?
LOL google found this: http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/archives/210355.asp?source=mypi
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
lulz.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Golden Tate the WR who is going to play in the NFL next year?
That seems like a waste….
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
it's like the 100th round
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
WASTE OF A PICK
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
OMG SABES WTF R U DOIN
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
DRAFT AND FOLLOW
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
The next Deion Sanders!
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s been a while since there’s been one of these. I can’t think of anyone since Brian Jordan, and he quite football pretty early on.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
LOL Drew Henson
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
OMGLOL
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
BRIAN JORDAN
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
ERSTAD
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
random knowledge
Tony Gwynn was picked in the NBA draft. Really.
Tom Glavine was picked in the NHL draft.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Back when Gwynn was skinny
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
USED PEDs "THE CAKE" AND "THE BEER"
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
by jctGamer on Jun 9, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
last player taken overall
James Rice, Catcher, Western Kentucky.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
The draft was still going?
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Nate's Shoulder
Do we think there’s even a sliver of a chance that Bork is just keeping Nate out of the regular rotation so he can rest his shoulder?
this reminds me of another great name in this year's draft - not taken by us, sadly
Roderick Shoulders.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
and, hey, someone took one of the players I saw for FSU this year:
Taiwan Easterling. Amazing name.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that medical decisions and Giants don’t make sense together.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Burrell-Rowand-Huff in Petco
for the LOLs
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Burrell Rowand-Huff
Sounds like a Seattle Pitcher or something
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Having read this whole thread, I’m thinking: This team is 32-25. They’re actually playing pretty well lately. Imagine how much better their record might be if not for all of these inexplicable roster moves. There are games they lost that they could have and should have won.
What are the chances these decisions come back to haunt them at the end of the season?
Giants Baseball: TORTURE
It’s the same story as last year. Weird handling of the OF, and weird usage of Posey.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
It would make me pretty happy if they made him the full-time catcher right now.
Ask me about my blog.
Tough to say
As much as Rowand has sucked, he has had a few well-timed hits (see Citi Field HR). Overall, they’ve probably been a little lucky so I doubt their terrible decisions have hurt much. That being said, I’d feel a lot better if they’d stop making these types of decisions.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
so what you're saying this
We’ve actually gotten maximum value from Rowand in that his few hits have actually been in timely situations, and it can only go downhill from here?
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Well
I’d expect Rowand to be somewhat better going forward. But given his overall level of production so far, I think we have gotten lucky that many of his hits have been of the “clutch” variety.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
You read this whole thread? I totally skipped the 500 comment Nate/Burrell subthread.
I mean, FFS.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Clearly, since it doesn’t have 500 comments that I’m not going to read.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
How many unread comments does it have?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m about to stop reading the ones that missed the god damn point. So far that actually isn’t very many. I expected it to be a lot more.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I can drop in and help boost that number for you. It’s kind of a specialty of mine.
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
I can sum it up and you can miss the point here if you want:
GIDPs are bad, but they don’t really mean anything. Leave Pablo alone!
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
BUT DUDE HE’S ON PACE TO BREAK THE MLB RECORD!!
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
AUUUUUUUUUGH!
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
It's pretty good.
Nice bondslegend meltdown.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
And this is why I expect us to miss the playoffs and I’m so mad about it.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah
they could easily have 33, maybe even 34 wins.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
They could also have less
I can think of at least 3 games they deserved to lose that they won: (Renteria HR vs. Braves, Rowand HR vs. Marlins, Rowand HR vs. Mets).
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s not really how it works, though. You should expect to have more wins if you have guys who perform better. Maybe we score runs in an earlier instance in any of those situations so those hits don’t matter. And yes, in some circumstances, you’ll end up losing more with the better performers for the situation we’re talking about, but usually, you’ll win more.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Definitely agree
I’m just saying that our stupidity hasn’t necessarily cost us any ground in the standings this year. In the long run it will, but it’s not a given that it has.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
OT: Alex Smith is in the best shape of his life!
Just kidding this is actually an interesting article
/throws an interception at your back foot
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
So excited for the Niners season
I hope the top 3 rookies will all be starting.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I really think the Niners are a sleeper. People aren’t taking them seriously enough. It’s a talented team. Smith is good enough. I’m excited.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
The best thing about handegg
Is making fun of the fans of that sport.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah actually I don’t even like the Cardinals. I’m bitter at AZ fans because they love the Suns and Cards but don’t care about the DBacks when they are the only team to, you know, win a championship.
I’m just being inflammatory because of football talk in June.
Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott
You're probably right
The Reds will fade.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Lindsay Lohan is a sleeper. Niners are contenders.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Didn’t really want to pick just one but I went with Velez because he’s Velez
in the best shape of my life
I think Velez may have found a way into my five least favorite Giants of all time. Ugh.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Pierzynski and Benitez are leading by a wide margin for me.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
AJ makes me hate Sabean more than him
Even though AJ is clearly a douche.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I didn't know we could include non-players
I hate Sabean and Bochy more than Armando and AJ.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 9, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't really have such a list, but I'll try!
1) Armando Benitez
I liked the signing at the time because I’m an idiot. He got off to a bad start in his first year, and then he finally had a good outing – and promptly blew out his ankle making a play at first base to end the game. And that was a sign.
2) Neifi Perez
After we released him and the Cubs picked him up, he had a hot streak. I went to a game at Wrigley, and the Cubs fans LOVED him based on this t-shirt. He got huge applause as I heckled him. There were Neifi t-shirts being sold. Honest to god Neifi t-shirts, for the love of…!
3) Todd Benzinger
Because I worshipped at the altar of Will Clark, and this dumbass was the guy to replace him. Not his fault, but oh well, he sucked anyway.
4) Eugenio Velez
The best thing about him as a player: the 10,000 nicknames.
5) Kim Batiste
I already did a 200,000 word fanshot of anecdotes about him!
Honorable mentions: Candy Maldonado (strictly for that one play), Tracy Jones, Pedro Feliz, Mel Hall, AJ, Rowand.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Pretty good list! Though I’m eternally loyal to Candy Maldonado.
Rowand’s my number one — after that it’s the usual suspects: Armando, Pierzynski, Feliz, Neifi. Also guys like Hershiser and Carlton. And Tommy Herr. And Bob Melvin always annoyed me for some reason.
I was a Mike Aldrete loyalist, so that was another mark against Candy.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
And my list wasn’t in any particular order, except the order I thought of ’em.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
My goodness. I thought you were a pretty young guy…
How do you remember all these guys from the 80s?
by E Ticket on Jun 9, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m 30. And I was a die-hard baseball fan from a very, very young age.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Alas . . .
. . . poor Mike. I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy . . . And a bloody good hitter and first baseman, with the horrid luck to be coming up right behind one of the most talented and popular Giants ever.
Years later, when he was with the A’s, he got to play for a fair stretch when McGwire was down with one or another of his injuries (foot, as I recall), and golly wowsers, Uncle Ted, did he put up the numbers (including unexpected power). I recall telling Walter Haas that Aldrete’s worth right then was roughly equal to McGwire’s (which, back before the IBBs started piling up for McGwire, it was).
What a shame Aldrete’s lost career was (and is).
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
I can’t hate Neifi, because every time I google the phrase: “Neifi Perez Fangraphs” and see “The Worst Season in Recent History”….I laugh. Especially since the following year, Sabean signed him. Then I remember Sabean is still employed, and I die a little inside.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
not only signed him
But signed him to a MULTI YEAR CONTRACT.
After the Royals released him with years left on his contract. THE ROYALS.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Such venom!!
Proud father of Alex and Fred Lewis.
I ain't denyin' there wasn't no bottle.
I don’t really remember LeMaster except by reputation. But I could’ve put Brad Wellman on my list.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
No way, guys like AJ and Armando deserved the hate. It’s not Velez’s fault he was used in the manner that made us so mad.
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Super OT -- Remember how happy you were when you knew AT&T Park was going to happen?
Congrats, 49er fans. You deserved this.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
San Francisco 49ers of Santa Clara!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Did I miss something?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Measure J passed
Approved for a new stadium in Santa Clara.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Didn’t they also get a measure passed to build a new stadium in San Francisco years ago?
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Yeah
But it was right around the time that ownership passed from the DeBartolo’s to the York’s, and the York’s wanted to find something better in Santa Clara. If I understand it correctly.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
that one didn’t pass
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I don’t know shit about football, but I remember that it very narrowly passed but they couldn’t get their shit together.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
It was one of those Stadium+Real Estate Development boondoggles
Kind of like the A’s wanted in Fremont. Those deals are esentially government handouts to rich people.
I am glad that one failed.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Cool
I don’t get all the angst about moving to Santa Clara tbh
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I have a few friends from SF or living in SF
They aren’t too excited about it, which I can understand. And I guess there is some nostalgia factor. I just want a better park (Candlestick is dogshit and getting in and out is hell) and closer for me is a plus.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I went to my first Niners game in years last season and it was okay but after how long it took to get out of the parking lot, I’m not going back any time soon.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
SOME OF US WENT THERE TO WATCH BASEBALL GAMES BEFORE
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Astro turf!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Public transportation issues?
Beats me
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
The new stadium will have much better public transportation access.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
It may be better than Candlestick, but in Santa Clara there’s no way it can actually be good.
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
Well, since Great America is already right there, there’s already lightrail access from San Jose to right near the stadium site.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Light rail is a joke
I worked in Fremont for a while and took light rail to get over to Palo Alto once a week after work. I had to get dropped off in Milpitas and picked up in Mountain View because that’s as close as light rail was to either end of my trip. It took about 45 minutes to make a roughly 10 mile trip. It was like a really lame amusement park ride, not actual transit.
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
uh
it takes muni 45 minutes to make a 4 mile trip.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
So...
…light rail is good because Muni is even slower?
Isn’t that like saying that Edgar Renteria was a good signing because he’s not as hurt as Mark DeRosa?
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
You, sir,
would not be welcome in Sacramento.
Proud father of Alex and Fred Lewis.
I ain't denyin' there wasn't no bottle.
That's fine
Who wants to be welcome in Sacramento anyway?
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
True
There are a few lightrails and things around here, but assuming this is the general location, freeway access is going to be phenomenal.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Yeah, if you see the two white circles and the Niners training facilities, the big parking lot that’s adjacent to the two is the stadium site.
I drive from Almaden to Great America a few times every summer. Maybe it’s because it’s the weekend, or I miss the morning rush, but I’ve never had any problems with traffic on the freeways. Even going off the freeway onto Great America Parkway isn’t a problem, since the area and streets were designed for people going to Great America. And then, according to my dad who works in the area, there are a bunch of expressways leading to Santa Clara as well.
The freeway situation is definitely a positive about the site.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
BOOOO
Publicly financed stadiums are a menace.
Giants are one of the few who did it the right way, with private money.
My Son, fourth outfielder extraordinaire.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients (50 PA min): Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres
Video from a cuople years ago
Which summarizes my thoughts…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1vynA-dfEo
My Son, fourth outfielder extraordinaire.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients (50 PA min): Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres
And Evil!
and Jim Bouton approves of this message.
by E Ticket on Jun 9, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not over yet
But I’m pretty excited. If the new park is going to be at Great America, it’s like 2-3 miles from where I live. Of course, who knows where I’ll be in 2014 when they start playing there.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I can walk to the new park. I live around Rivermark.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
OH SNAP
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
yeah well Candlestick park is 2-4 BLOCKS
from where I live.
And the new SF stadium would be <0.5 mile.
I don’t think the Niners are going move. When push come to shove… San Franciscans are an arrogant lot.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
I’m happy – more stuff to do in the South Bay is always good. My dad is ecstatic. If the stadium does get built, he plans on getting season tickets since he works in Santa Clara.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Not so fast
The Niners still need to come up with like $800 million of the $900 million the stadium will cost. I know they say they have a plan to get there but it probably involves a) an insane amount of debt servicing and b) the unrealistic expectation that some corporation will pony up $200 million for naming rights. Not sure the financing comes together without money from the NFL, which would be a first.
I don’t care where they play, I’m just saying this isn’t a done deal.
Giants Baseball: TORTURE
Unemployment Park at Oracle/Sun Field!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Google Park!
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Google Park at Private Information Collection Field!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
The toughest part is out of the way though, in my mind. There are other hurdles to cross, but this was the toughest hurdle.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
And would the last person to leave Candlestick
Please press the detonator cap
by E Ticket on Jun 9, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
ROWAND IS SITTING AGAIN TODAY!!!
Started only 50% of games since the creation of benchrowand.com
ITS WORKING I SAVED THE GIANTS
"Whoever said WAR is HELL must have been talking about Aaron Rowand" - McCoven faithful
under construction - www.benchrowand.com/ check back for progress!
Lineup please
If Molina is at C I will lose my shit.
It’s been posted like 3 times already
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
This baby is off the charts!
"I never think I’m a good player or a bad player. This is what I’m thinking: I can play. And I want to play." - Juan Uribe
don't get your hopes up
If the offense fails to score like 10 runs todays, bochy will be like “bork, rowand and molinas gamerness and veteran grit would have helped!”
still 50% fail
up the voltage.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
I think waiting for a Rowand hot streak is kinda dumb
All statistical evidence to the contrary.
There. That concludes my non-nerdicized personal opinion on this issue.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:30 PM PDT reply actions
Over/Under on Burrell PA's by the end of the year: 300.5
I say over.
Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott
Optimist
Under
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Shift + A
900 comments in 4 hours? Don’t you people have homes?
The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.
Annoyed Hobo!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Overly Sensitive Misplaced Person
The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.
Distressed Destitute
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
Frazzled Freecycler
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I just moved into one a few days ago!
(LOL NO LONGER LIVING WITH PARENTS)
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
I’m 30, and I hadn’t lived with my parents since I was 15. So that was weird.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing. Because all 50th Round picks go to heaven (or at least extended spring training).
Enjoy your free Fred Lewis, Blue Jays.
Imagine how they felt…
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Jun 9, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I stopped living with my folks when I was 18. Told them…“What the fuck, you guys are 40 something and still living at home…get outta here!”
by E Ticket on Jun 9, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I went to a boarding school for high school and havn’t lived with my parents since.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Well, I relented when I was 19. I let them move back into the basement, which was a converted bomb shelter left over from the 1950s.
by E Ticket on Jun 9, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
/high five
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Howie’s at home too!
Of course, it’s Grant’s home, but we can’t be too picky about that.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Listen, somebody has to look after his enormous cat while he’s at work, even if he didn’t ask them to.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 9, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I totally expected a different word after enormous.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 9, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Uh, that’s not a cat. That is a small llama.
The Giants offseason moves - "meh"
Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum, who could do whatever he wants to do.
Then why does it eat all this cat food?
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Jun 10, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
What’s really remarkable is that it’s 900 comments mostly about baseball. I feel like I don’t even know this site anymore.
Giants Baseball: TORTURE
I’ll give all the credit to myself. You’re welcome.
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Who Knew that Burrell Would
create the Great MCC Divide.
Father against Son. Brother against Brother. Nate against Pat. Fred against the Ball.
Let's bring the...
Well once everyone gets on board with distributions and averages we won’t have that problem. Nate is much better. :)
by Missing Barry on Jun 9, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes he could be. But we will never find out unless Burrell and Rowand are both dfa’d/hurt/ kidnapped.
by E Ticket on Jun 9, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I have been studying the graph
and I think it’s flatter than you think when comparing a 26 yo Schierholtz to a 33 yo Burrell.
Not that I think Burrell is better, certainly not when throwing in defense… I just don’t think the graphs show it.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
Throws graph into center field and rants on the way to dugout.
Proud father of Alex and Fred Lewis.
I ain't denyin' there wasn't no bottle.
And to be clear I am talking about the whole value of the player. I don’t necessarily think Nate is the better hitter, but I do think the difference isn’t that large hitting wise. Throw in defense and baserunning and it’s a no-brainer.
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I actually do too, for personal reasons, but I have a bigger anti-veteran bias and just want what’s good for the Giants too much.
by Missing Barry on Jun 10, 2010 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions
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