Giants interested in Dejesus
Like the defensive upgrade. Don't like it unless he replaces Bengie in the every day lineup. Probably don't like the price.
almost 2 years ago
sam23
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Yeah, I'm kinda with you
I imagine-if we got him-the line up would look like
C-Posey
1B-Huff
2B-Sanchez
SS-Rent/Uribe
3B-Sandoval
LF-Burrell
CF-Torres
RF-DeJesus
That said, there’s no way I give up a top 10 prospect for him.
Also, I think it’s sad that, despite Torres’ great year I originally typed in Rowand’s name at CF
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
I really like basically any lineup that doesn’t include Molina or Rowand
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jun 21, 2010 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions
well not in that order but you get the point
by 49erEmpire on Jun 21, 2010 5:34 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I got it
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
Hmm…he seems to be overperforming a bit this year. At age 30, I’d rather not. Unless we can get the Royals to toss in Alex Gordon.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 5:27 PM PDT reply actions
Here are the top trade-eligible prospects (ie everyone not drafted in 2010) and whether or not I would trade them
Posey Fuck No
Bumgarner Fuck No
Runzler Hell No
Crawford Hell No
Belt Hell No
Bucardo Hell No
RafRod Hell No
Surkamp Hell No
Neal Hell No
Adrianza Hell No
Joseph No.
Joaquin Yes
Pena Jr Yes
Peguero Could be talked into it-but wouldn’t like it
Noonan No.
Sosa Yes
Tanner Yes
Stoffel Yes
Downs Yes
Bond Yes
Graham Yes
Kieschnick Yes
J. Casilla Yes
J. Martinez Yes
Maday Yes
Ford Yes
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
I’d put Joseph in the Hell No category
I ain't havin' it
by NuschlerFace on Jun 21, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
If we traded ToJo-I'd have the same reaction as we did when we traded Alderson
I understand that he’s not the same prospect he was at the start of the year, but he is still worth more than Sanchez/DDJ
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
Wasn’t Joseph a draft pick last season? Isn’t he ineligible to be traded before the deadline?
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 6:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
But he can still be a PTBNL
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
How about some more names: Bowker, Schierholtz, Ishikawa, Romo, Pucetas
Adopted father of Eric Surkamp, the next great big-eared soft tossing lefty in SF Giants History!
by Speedforthewin on Jun 21, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd trade them all for DDJ
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 7:20 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I’d be interesting to see if a package of Schierholtz, Martinez and Edlefsen could get it done. Probably not, but a man can hope.
Adopted father of Eric Surkamp, the next great big-eared soft tossing lefty in SF Giants History!
by Speedforthewin on Jun 21, 2010 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
If that deal happened
I would need to change my pants.
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 8:36 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah. My guess is they are saying Posey or Bumgarner and the Giants are hanging up the phone
Adopted father of Eric Surkamp, the next great big-eared soft tossing lefty in SF Giants History!
by Speedforthewin on Jun 22, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Probably
The more realistic offers will probably come in the middle of July, but right now, when neither team needs to make a deal teams are probably asking for the moon.
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
I'd trade so many of those "(hell) no" guys, it's not even funny
After Bumgarner, Runzler, and Posey, maybe one or two of those prospects will be more than a bench player/middle reliever.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I think it’s more that those prospects have more value to us than what we would get in a trade including them. Could we get DeJesus for Belt straight up? No, I don’t think so. And DeJesus isn’t even THAT valuable. I think they’re more hell no because we would have to include a Belt/Crawford/Bucardo all to get one player, and that’s just not worth it.
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
Adopted parent of good old Wendell, he tries so hard. You'll get a hit someday son!
by theghostofjasonellison on Jun 21, 2010 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, sure I'd trade them
Just not for DDJ
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 7:19 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I mean if Sabean is making his "list"
Of “untouchable” minor leaguers the only guy I would put on that list is MadBum. I just dont think DDJ is worth one of our top tier prospects.
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 8:04 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
At this point I’m seriously starting to wonder if there is a top tier after MadBum (and Posey of course).
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I would be very hesitant to trade Crawford
but yeah, our system is very thin
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
No on Martinez and Casilla, but I generally agree with the rest. We’ll need a cheap 5th starter with a few salaries peaking in these next couple years, and I’d rather not be forced into starting Bumgarner
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
Adopted parent of good old Wendell, he tries so hard. You'll get a hit someday son!
by theghostofjasonellison on Jun 21, 2010 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve been wanting us to target DeJesus for the past 2 years or so. He’s kinda similar to Randy Winn. I would love this move provided we didn’t have to give up very much.
There's one very important way in which he doesn't compare to Winn.
The GIants bought low on Winn (at least in trade), DeJesus is riding high on a career year (to date).
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
That's exactly the problem, Hobbes
He’s nothing but another Randy Winn. I was looking for somewhere to say that, and this is the perfect opportunity (so, thanks!). Why in the world would we want another Randy Winn (nice guy aside)?
If you’re assuming we DFA Molina, move Posey to C, Huff back to 1B, sit Rowand permanently, and put DeJesus in RF…….well, maybe, but I’d rather have Bowker in RF than DeJesus. And yes, I’ll concede DeJesus is a much better defender. I’d just rather have the power potential. But, again, we should already have had a read on that “potential” from playing him last year, so that’s another issue I won’t get started on.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
Why in the world would we want another Randy Winn (nice guy aside)?
2006 wasn’t very good and 2009 was horrible, but other than that Randy Winn was a damn fine player for us.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
Except for the times when he was bad, he was good?
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
You really think Bowker would be better than DeJesus? I sure as heck don’t. And I mean that as a hitter, not just when factoring in his defense. A bad year from DeJesus is probably the best Bowker can do.
Randy Winn was pretty damn valuable to us, and I think DeJesus would bring a similar impact. Now again this would all depend on the price we could get him for. If he’s reasonably affordable I would jump on this, if not then oh well, make do with what we have.
Randy Winn was not that valuable to us
Not saying he had no value; he just didn’t provide what this/that team needed. On a team loaded with power hitters, and strong defensive OF could be very valuable. That hasn’t described a Giants team for several years now.
And I’m not saying that John Bowker is definitely The Answer. He potentially could be, mostly if he’s cured from his frequent Schierholtzitis flareups. He has power, which we are in desperate need of. He seems to be able to hit for average. These are things that Winn cannot do, going forward.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
I’d be okay with Schierholtz in right, honestly. I’m not that high on a 30 year old having a career year. The Royals will probably ask for too much.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 22, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I know why Sabean targeted Dejesus
He has a 6M dollar option for next year. It’s like, somebody already did the work for him!
After this, he will sign Huff to a 2 yrs, 12M extension. And we’ll have the all 6M / year team!
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
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I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Does that mean Rowand is playing two years at once?
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
I keep on think of DeJesus as a crappy SS.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
LOL Nate
How about giving him or Bowker a fair shot at the job for a few weeks before making a move for DeJesus?
Buster Posey: "I'm a catcher." Brian Sabean: "I'm an idiot."
by rxmeister on Jun 21, 2010 6:42 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I think its pretty safe to say at this point that DeJesus is a better hitter than Nate is ever likely to be.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
I agree, but Nates just as good defensively
is cheaper, and doesn’t cost any prospects.
Kobe sucks
by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 21, 2010 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t. I think Nate’s got the potential to hit for a decent average and decent power, though he won’t walk a lot, with plus speed. DeJesus seems like Nate plus OBP minus speed. Clearly that’s not the case right now, but I don’t see .280/.320/.450 with 15-20 SB given full playing time as ridiculous for Nate in a year or two.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
I think its pretty safe to say at this point that DeJesus is a better hitter than Nate is ever likely to be.
Probably, but is the difference big at all? Nate was hitting at an above average clip (over 100 wRC+) when he was getting regular PT. It also happens to be the only freaking time we’ve ever given him regular PT. We know not getting regular PT has a negative effect on performance. We also know Nate’s last stint of regular PT before that – Fresno in ‘08, he put up an MLE pretty close to average. Yes, I think DeJesus is a better hitter than Nate, but it sure as heck seems to me like the jury is still out on what Nate is. All so we can give PA’s to Randy Winn last year, to Burrell and Huff and Rowand and Molina and Renteria this year…….
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 6:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Why did Nate stop playing? Did he get hurt at some point? I feel like I missed something this year, because I have no idea why he’s not playing. Well, now that Posey’s up but can’t catch, forcing Huff into right field, I get why the Giants are doing it. But man, Nate in right, Posey at catcher, Molina gone – Giants are immediately better. This is frustrating.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 22, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s what I thought. But I never understood why he couldn’t play when he came back. He was healthy before the acquisition of Burrell, right? Whatever. This teams makes me mad sometimes. Well, most times.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 22, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
He was injured and then didn’t come back strong [hitting-wise] from the injury , so he got yoinked out of the lineup.
His game log is actually one of the more ridiculous things I’ve ever seen. Consistently starting until May 22, then 3 bad starts (not even in a row) and he’s out of the lineup for good. He’s started one time in the month of June.
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions
(And he was hitting at an above average rate as of May 22)
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe that insurance run he drove in last night will earn him a start. Then when he struggles he’ll get benched again. Great.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 23, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I say no to Dejesus at any price. If you are going to spend the prospects spend them on a younger hitter with more power. He’s all of two or three years younger than Huff and Burrell, with almost no power. DO NOT WANT! I just hate that the Giants ALWAYS spend the prospects on veterans. The team will be saddled with the big pitching staff contracts for the next several years, they need to fill out the lineup with younger, cheaper talent.
at any price?
that seems like an overstatement. I think the Royals are likely to ask for way more than I’d want to give up but if the price came way down to something like Nate+relief arm like Evan suggested above, I’d be all for that.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
OK. Yes, it’s an overstatement. Rowand for Dejesus.
It’s frustrating to hear that the Giants would even be interested in getting someone who really cannot help the team in a significant way. That doesn’t really fill a hole, and in the long run makes their situation worse. Spending an extra 6 million here, 9 million there, adds up and makes competing harder. They don’t need Dejesus’ level of talent or his contract.
Meh, he’d represent a significant upgrade both offensively and defensively if he replaced Molina. Maybe he’s not the perfect middle of the order slugging type but improving the defense at C, perhaps at 1B, and in the outfield while adding a solid and fairly versatile lefthanded bat to the lineup doesn’t really make the situation worse. Something like Torres, Sanchez, Sandoval, Huff, Burrell, Uribe, DeJesus, Posey is quite a bit better than any thing with Molina in it. It all comes down to what the Royals are asking for and I fully expect that to be too much, but I don’t think adding DeJesus for a relief arm and and a low level prospect wouldn’t be a bad thing at all.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
Yes because there are just SO many young hitters with power available via trade. If it were that easy they would do it. For one, I can’t really think of any young hitter in the majors, or as a prospect that’s available or has been in the last 2 years. The few that have been traded were involved in deals for Cy-Young pitchers like Halladay and Cliff Lee. Then there’s the fact that the Giants have few assets they could even trade that would net such a coup like getting a young hitter in the first place.
And the whole idea of just praying that guys like Neal, Noonan, Posey etc are going to be offensive saviors is ludicrous. I thought the idea of developing tons of pitching was to trade some of it for a legit young bat? The way I see it they’re fucked either way. They have to either A) overpay for talent via FA, or trade. B) Trade talented young pitchers like Sanchez, Runzler, or Mad Bum in a package for a young hitter. C) Or sit on their ass and hope they can shit out more diamonds like they did with Pablo.
And for the record DeJesus is cheap. For the value he brings to a team as a leadoff or #2 hitter that can get on base at a decent rate, and play great outfield defense he’s a bargain at 5 to 6 million dollars. So yeah I think we all want to see them have young, cheap talent, but that’s simply very hard to come by for ANY team at this point in time with the way the evaluation of players and minor league talent has been evolving over the past decade. That doesn’t mean we should scoff at the opportunity to get a good, undervalued veteran player that’s in his prime and who comes at a very affordable salary. Especially if he can be acquired without having to give up any big named prospects.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=6&season=2010&month=0
Rowand for DeJesus straight up! Dayton Moore still works there right? Please?
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jun 21, 2010 7:34 PM PDT reply actions
This might work.
Especially if they start telling Moore about Rowand’s gold gloves.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 21, 2010 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Anything that forces out Molina is perfection incarnate
The fact that DeJesus would improve our defense by shifting Huff back to 1b is a bonus.
My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe
Then just get rid of Molina and play Schierholtz.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Jun 21, 2010 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that'll happen
Plus DeJesus is better than Nate.
My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe
Sabean wants DeJesus
But he thinks he’s getting Ivan DeJesus
Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
/Beane pulls down his pants
Kobe sucks
by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 22, 2010 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, because what we’re hurting for right now is outfielders. We’ve got defensive outfielders who aren’t hitting (Nate), defensive outfielders who are hitting (Torres), mediocre outfielders who aren’t hitting (Rowand), mediocre outfielders who are hitting (Huff), and bad outfielders who are hitting (Burrell). Just about the only thing we don’t have is a bad-fielding outfielder who can’t hit, but then again Eugenio Velez is just a couple hours away in Fresno. I don’t see the hole DeJesus fills on this team; it would make sense if he was a good defensive OF who was absolutely crushing the ball, so we could field Huff/Torres/DeJesus and sit Burrell and Rowand and get the defensive upgrade while retaining a great bat, but he’s only good offensively and I’d rather keep the prospects considering Burrell isn’t absolutely butchering LF and we having Schierholtz to upgrade the OF in the late innings.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
it would make sense if he was a good defensive OF who was absolutely crushing the ball
Seems to me like he fits this bill pretty well? Though going forward he’s probably more of a defensive OF who hits at an above average rate?
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 6:52 AM PDT up reply actions
He’s certainly hitting well, but I wouldn’t say “absolutely crushing” considering he’s being buoyed by the OBP more than the SLG and at this point we’re actually okay on OBP so I’d like to add power if possible. I’d love to have another OF with a .900 OPS and solid defense, but only if the Royals want one of our leftover OFs and maybe a C prospect or two back, and that’s almost assuredly not the case. The reality is that DeJesus doesn’t really fill a hole because at this point we’re getting enough production from pretty much everywhere that the only way we’re going to upgrade is by getting a star player, which he is not. The Giants’ team OPS+ is 95 and we’ve got guys posting a 100 or better in LF, CF, RF, 3B, SS, 2B, 1B. If we moved Posey to C, Huff to 1B, and put Schierholtz in right we’d have at least average offense at every position and upgrade our defense considerably, which I think is a better plan than acquiring DeJesus to essentially be a slightly better Nate.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
Sigh. I hate this organization so much. DeJesus would make our team better. I do believe that. It’s also making the same fucking mistake over and over and over again. Why do we keep trying to marginally upgrade our OF? Why do we toss away young, cheap OF’ers who can provide us value? That DeJesus is even a consideration right now is just a reflection of how poorly this organization is run.
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 6:53 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I don’t really disagree, but it seems to me people were saying pretty much the same thing about Pat Burrell a few weeks ago.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
You mean that butcher corner OF’er who’s posting a 105 wRC+ for the year after an 85 wRC+ last year? Why is it that as soon as the season starts we just throw out everything we know about concepts like sample size and just react to the end results we’ve seen in the last week or two? :\
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions
DeJesus also makes some sense in case, blasphemously, Andres Torres turns out not to be Matt Kemp.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
And Aaron Rowand turns out to be Aaron Rowand! ;)
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m still not sold on Burrell. But the Burrell acquisition and the DeJesus opportunity are not even close to the same. The Royals would presumably want real prospects in return (not just the virtual ones we’d like to send) while signing Burrell cost all of $500,000 and no prospects. That was a no-risk signing; if he works out, great, if not, let him go. If DeJesus doesn’t work out then we lose future value, and even if he does he’s only a marginal upgrade over Burrell; that’s a medium-risk, low-reward move, which doesn’t make a lot of sense. It would of course be highly dependent on who the Royals want, but if it’s anything more than minor league filler and/or future bench players, I’m not really sold.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
We have plenty of pieces already on the roster to get Molina out of the lineup if we really wanted to. I just can’t get behind that line of thought.
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, ithink the premis e here is: If this randomly forces Bochy to start Huff at 1st and Posey at catcher then its ok.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 22, 2010 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I get the premise, I just don’t like the premise because if that’s the goal, it’s something we already have the personnel to do. We shouldn’t have to make a move to make it happen…
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, I agree we have the pieces in place, but maybe DeJesus would make it more obvious.
Right now the real story is that you are replacing Schierholtz with Molina. I can buy that Bochy beliecves that all the regular players other than Molina have to play (Uribe, Torres, Huff, Burrell, Posey, Sanchez, Panda) and I think he thinks that Molina is more valuable than Nate. So in my mind I see Bochy thinking this:
Uribe, Torres, Huff, Burrell, Posey, Sanchez, Panda>Molina>Nate
So he thinks that he is putting the best team on the field. Maybe DeJesus would make it more:
Uribe, Torres, Huff, Burrell, Posey, Sanchez, Panda, DeJesus>Molina>Nate
And that may force him to out Molina. One can hope.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 22, 2010 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I do see it as very plausible, I’m just not happy that we have to alter our strategy around Bochy’s failings.
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually I’m sort of in Bochy’s camp on this one — I don’t really believe Nate provides an upgrade over Molina. I would like to see Bowker get a long look, though i can concede that his ABs this year were largely pretty ugly to watch.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I’m not really what camp I lie in. I like Nate but his offensive upside seems to be Bengie’s current level.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 22, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
You should recheck what Bengie’s current level is. Nate has a better career wRC+ than Bengie right now (by a lot), a better career wRC+ than Bengie had last year, and a better career wRC+ than Bengie’s career level. And that’s in the sporadic/fuck with prospect PT Nate’s been given. Statistically, he’s projected to hit significantly better than what we’ve seen (which probably assumes regular PT).
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
In what way does Nate NOT produce an upgrade over Bengie? Assuming Nate pushes Huff or Burrell to 1B and Posey to C, I think that’s a major defensive upgrade. We’re talking about 10-20 runs over the course of the season better. Offensively, Bengie has been below average every single year he’s been on the Giants. He’s putting up a 73 wRC+ right now, an 85 last year. Schierholtz has a 91 wRC+ on the year, and a 90 for his career. Schierholtz is also projected at a .334 wOBA for the rest of the season, compared to .308 for Bengie. We can expect Posey to lose some offense if he moves to C, but we can also expect Nate to gain some offense if he plays full time. I’d call it a wash, but maybe its a net loss of ~3 runs? Make the case that Nate is not an upgrade over Bengie.
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I can’t do it, MB, your case is, I admit, immaculate. My feeling is based almost entirely on my irrational feeling that Nate’s stats are being protected by irregular play rather than harmed by it, and if given 600 ABs he’d be mercilessly exploited by major league pitchers. I guess your right, I’d still probably rather see that than to continue watching Molina. Both experiences fill me with revulsion and dread frankly.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I just want to see young guys given a chance. :(
But seriously, I’m just at such a loss to explain why we’re so ok with giving guys like Aubrey Huff, Pat Burrell, and Randy Winn chances and so not ok with giving guys like Lewis and Schierholtz and Bowker opportunities. Winn was terrible last year, and still played full time in Aug and Sep over someone like Schierholtz! Why is it ok for someone like Winn – overpaid, not part of the future – to fail, but not someone who just might show he can be a valuable contributor going forward? Why does Rowand get the opportunity to fail? Why do Huff/Burrell (you know they’re going to keep playing even if they stop hitting)? Why Dave Roberts? Molina, Renteria, Aurilia, Jose Castillo, Vizquel, Durham, Feliz – everyone on that list has had significant PT in a season since 2007 and failed. Somehow the chance of them failing is ok, and the chance of them failing is very real, as you can see…..and yet somehow it would be horrible if Lewis/Bowker/Schierholtz played and failed, even though if they play…..they might just succeed, too!
I do understand where you’re coming from, I have no idea if Schierholtz can actually be a good player, I just get so frustrated thinking about the way this organization is run, that somehow if a veteran fails it’s ok, but we can’t possibly give a young guy who could potentially be valuable to the franchise over multiple years going forward a chance, because well, he might fail. Fuck that. Play the young guys. Let them have their chance to fail. I don’t really even care whether there’s a good case to be made for the young guy or not (as long as the case is better than whatever the heck case Velez apparently had), I want to see the young guy play instead of the old guy.
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I agree with that and I’ve been complaining about it for years, but I reserve the right to feel that way a la carte. For instance, I wanted Lewis and Bowker to be given more opportunities (and would be interested in seeing what Rohlinger might do if given the opportunity), but I’ve really worked my way into being a Schierholtz nay sayer and I definitely definitely don’t want to see more Burriss. And I wasn’t torn up by the idea of signing Huff and relegating Ishikawa to the bench. So I don’t know what that means really, maybe I’m just as bad as Sabean although I’ve complained about him for years and completely agree with Grant that he fundamentally has no idea how to put together an offense.
Or maybe I’ve just reached the cranky old man stage where forming a cohesive argument is just too much troubles. Therein, I posit this: I want to see the young guys play, just not so much Nate.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
we’re not getting global maxima, so be happy with local maxima
Just get the damn surgery, Mark DeRosa.
I honestly don’t think I can be happy with anything this management does, short of completely changing their ways (something that isn’t happening). I realized this morning just thinking about how this organization operates makes me mad and I just can’t help it….
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Someday we’ll get a decent GM. I promise!
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Someday we’ll get a decent GM. I promise!
If you promise to root for the team I tell you too!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 22, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I promise to be eternally optimistic about all moves Giants related when that happens!
by Missing Barry on Jun 22, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
But then we all know what the real solution is. I’d rather advocate for getting rid of Bochy and Sabean then for working around them. I mean, this is all rosterbation anyway.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 22, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
a comment at mlb trade rumors says DeJesus can’t throw any more, is strictly LF. Maybe KC fan who wants to hold onto the guy.
Wikipedia is nice for recalling old trades. Like in 2004, everybody knew KC had to trade Carlos Beltran before free agency. They waited too long, and had to also send out Dotel, and received… /drumroll/ Mike Wood [P, waived the next year]; C John Buck [could not hit at all then] and Mark Tea Hen. Whoppee.
SO this year KC feels there is a market for DeJesus.
proud, yes I said proud, adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez
Sabean vs. Moore
I think the most exciting part of this potential Dejesus trade is Sabean and Moore battling “wits”
Moore: Do you have someone like Yuniesky Betancoury?
Sabean: Erm, We have this other middle infielder named Brandon Belt.
Moore: Nah, how about Manny Burris.
Sabean: You can’t teach speed! No way.
Moore: Ok how about some OFs. You have this kid Velez…
Sabean: He’s a cornerstone prospect no way! How about this guy Bowker he mashes AAA pitching?
Moore: He sucks, Brian.
Sabean: Ha. You’re right Dayton can’t slip anything by you!
The more I think about it, DDJ reminds me of Freddy Sanchez
Last year I saw Sanchez as a useful piece who would improve our production at 2B. Was he worth Tim Alderson? No chance.
DDJ is a useful player who will improve our offense and defense by getting Bengie out of the line up. He is a useful player, but not worth a top prospect.
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
That would be an excellent comp if you make it Freddy Sanchez in the summer of 2007 rather than the summer of 2009. Neither of them is a star, but 3 WAR/year is nothing to sneeze at.
I don’t understand the Bengie argument. Nothing’s getting Bengie out of the lineup until Bochy decides that Posey is the better catcher.
Yeah. DeJesus probably wouldn’t get Bengie out of the lineup. So at this point, the Giants probably feel they don’t need to trade for DeJesus.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 23, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Article about DDJ-from the Hardball Times
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/dejesus-drawing-interest/
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
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