Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Indy 500: Coverage of the 'Greatest Spectacle In Racing'

Giving Brian Sabean credit where credit is due

The editorial staff over at El Lefty Malo bring up an interesting point: if Brian Sabean built an offense in a forest, would anyone be there to give him credit if the team didn’t ground into a double play? Or something. From Lefty:

The staterati are starting to notice. FanGraphs gives a shoutout to Aubrey Huff today. BP's Jay Jaffe has the Giants ranked third in this week's hit list, and Rob Neyer admits he's been wrong about the Giants.

Nowhere in those above-linked articles will you find a glimmer of admiration, however grudging, for Brian Sabean.

Then I feel bad for falling into the same trap. Juan Uribe? Doing well, but he’s only on the team because no one else would give him a two-year deal, and he’s only starting because Edgar Renteria is made of graham crackers. Andres Torres? Great so far, but that’s like giving Pat Gillick credit for Brady Anderson’s 50-homer season. Aubrey Huff? A fair gamble when the only alternative was Travis Ishikawa, but there’s a reason no one else w...

Now I feel bad. There a lot of Sabean acquisitions who are hitting. Why do I feel the need to rationalize away each one? Then I remember Aaron Rowand, and I get irrational with my rationalizations. Anyone who thought Rowand was an offensive centerpiece is a blind squirrel, and Aubrey Huff is a pecan pie. Fair or not, and it really isn’t fair, I’m going to use the Rowand deal -- and the horrific near-acquisitions of Gary Matthews, Jr. and Juan Pierre in the previous offseason -- to dismiss every subsequent move that works out for Brian Sabean.

Star-divide

I sincerely believe that Sabean doesn’t know what makes a good offense. You can counter with the 30-somethings who are having sensational seasons out of the blue this year, but I can counter with the dozen 30-somethings who didn’t have sensational seasons over the past five years. After a string of losses at the roulette table, double zero has come up a couple of times. That doesn’t mean that Sabean has figured out the game, nor does it mean that playing against the house was ever a good idea.

Where Sabean legitimately doesn’t get enough credit is for the pitching staff. There are ways to rationalize this away, too -- Sabean wasn’t the one who told the Mariners to draft Brandon Morrow instead of Tim Lincecum, Sabean probably wasn’t the scout who gave Matt Cain a glowing recommendation, Sabean wasn’t the scout who thought Jonathan Sanchez was worth a late-round flier -- but those rationalizations are far more strained. The organization provided Sabean with good arms. Sabean didn’t screw it up. That gets far less credit than it should.

It has to be tempting to trade young arms. Sabean had success getting rid of prospects in the past, and he was struggling to build winning teams. He probably had a lot of offers for Cain, Sanchez, and Lincecum. Tempting offers. Offers for legit hitters, and all Sabean had to give up were unknown quantities. But he didn’t.

Here’s where you bring up Francisco Liriano. But for all of the Joe Fontenots and Jason Grillis given up in deals, there was bound to be one that would blow up in Sabean’s face. Liriano was a skinny teenager who couldn’t stay healthy enough to pitch more than 100 innings for any of the Giants’ minor league affiliates. Maybe 1% of the pitchers who fit that thumbnail description ever pan out. I still don’t blame Sabean for thinking Liriano had more value as a trade chip than he ever would as a major leaguer.

But in 2005, when the Giants were miserable and Bondsless, I’m sure there were a lot of hitters he could have had for a 20-year-old right-hander doing well in AA. In 2008, when the Giants were again miserable, and Sabean wasn’t sure if he was going to have a job after the season, he probably could have flipped an intriguing, live-armed lefty for something that would have superficially helped the offense in the short term. And when Tim Lincecum had all of the buzz he deserved, Sabean could have traded him for a youngish, corner outfielder. When the Giants figured that Barry Zito was going to take up a rotation spot for the next seven years, Sabean could have figured that one of the young pitchers was a little more expendable.

He didn’t.

So I might not be ready to accept Sabean’s ability to evaluate a hitter -- I really, really, really think that Aubrey Huff intrigued Sabean mostly because Huff had 85 RBI last season -- but it’s time to give Sabean credit for the deals he didn’t make. It’s time to realize that the Liriano/Nathan deal was an exception, not the rule. Sabean trades a lot of young pitchers, but he usually keeps the ones who eventually contribute to a major league team. The 2010 Giants would be a steaming pond of disaster if Sabean didn’t have that kind of self-control.

Comment 1572 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Certainly not.

Wait, what?

Where th’…

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 9:40 AM PDT reply actions  

Cain and Lincecum – providing job security for Brian Sabean.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 9:42 AM PDT reply actions  

Brian Sabean: He’s better when he does less

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 9:42 AM PDT reply actions  

Rec'd

Sabes and Baer is awesome, but Sabes and Sabes’s Assistant (Susan?) would also be a wonderful comic.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Recycling!

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Garko deal didn’t workout, but the Sanchez deal has so far. I like Sanchez, and he’s contributing to the team now. Have you seen how well Alderson has done lately? It’s not very impressive, and I believe he’s still only in AA.

by aBulldog on Jun 21, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

The post was written at the end of last year, and it’s fitting. Because they traded Alderson for two and a half months of Sanchez. That’s it.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Like someone (BondsLegend?) said in minor lines

The Sanchez deal was bad because we could’ve signed Sanchez as a FA this year.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

What I think is being missed here is that

the Giants had an option on him for this year. It made signing him a lot easier without having to fight it out with other teams.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

But they did not use the option

they signed him to a new deal.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unfortunely what is being missed here...

Is no one esle was intrested in that option ( circa July ’09).

As for post ’09 season go to COTS and make a list of 2nd basemen that have gotten over $5MM/yr scince the market crash of say August ’07 and comepare Sanchez to that list.

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not my point. The signing was done before he became a free agent. Giants would have been bidding for him against other teams in free agency had they not traded for him, or he wouldn’t have been available at all as he may have done something similar with another team.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Again go look at how many second baseman that have singed contract of $5MM/yr since August ‘07. The market for paying second baseman that much is very very very small. Lack almost as small as the ammount of good in LaSorda’s hart.

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

We could have gotten a LOT more for those 2 pitchers than garko/sanchez

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Definitely

I mean, look at what the Pirates got for Adam LaRoche.

Argenis Diaz, who was pretty Bocockian, and Hunter Strickland-a low A pitcher who with a decent K rate.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

There is no way any fan could possibly know the market for minor league pitchers. Giants fans see Alderson as a number one draft choice, while scouts see Alderson as someone with an 87 mph fastball. Saying they “definitely” could have gotten more for them is flat out ridiculous.

Buster Posey: "I'm a catcher." Brian Sabean: "I'm an idiot."

by rxmeister on Jun 21, 2010 7:12 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I mean, look at what the Pirates got for Adam LaRoche.

What they got for Sanchez is a guy who’s given up 87 hits in 76 IP in his second year in Double A ball and has a K rate that’s only OK.

Twenty-seven years of waiting has come to an end.

by trapper on Jun 21, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rec’d!

"I never watched baseball on TV. It's slow and boring. I'm not a fan. Never was." - Jeff Kent

by Yoyo on Jun 21, 2010 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Congrats, Brian!

You can build a major league offense that is ranked 12 in runs scored. Only the Nats, Padres, Pirates and Astros are worse!

Woohoo!

WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience

by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 21, 2010 9:49 AM PDT reply actions  

Lars is back! Maybe he knows where Satyricrash is hiding.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

For the record, I still want him to leave. So I’m not saying, I’m just saying.

by Grant Brisbee on Jun 21, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

So I’m not saying, I’m just saying.

You did this just to mess with me, right?

I am going to let the air out of your tires now.

WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience

by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 21, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

What you really mean is let the air out of slash Grant’s tires

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

by SoFa King Mike on Jun 21, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lars is actually going to kick them repeatedly until the air goes out.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

with the prosthetic arm he ripped from the guy he hired to teach grant a lesson.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Just like Sabean!

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

by SoFa King Mike on Jun 21, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

He'll have to do his due diligence first.

"You can always recover from the player you didn't sign. You may never recover from the player you signed at the wrong price." --Billy Beane

"I am not an idiot."--Brian Sabean

by Sabean's_Folly on Jun 21, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

He’s going to kick them into space and let the oxygen find a new gravitational pull.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

You’re to late. After reading this post Sabean kicked the air out Grants tire.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

OT: "Reserved" Parking in the City

My sister in law lives in a part of Philly called Manayunk. The parking there is horrible, probably some of the worst in the city, so naturally there is one douche bag who reserves his spot with a cone and a knife. So if you have the gall to move the cone and park there he will slash your tire. It has happened to my sister in-law and, apparently, everyone on the street.

The other day, I was babysitting for them playing XBOX while my wife babysat, we heard the fire sirens so naturally we went outside to see the carnage. Someone set the tool boxes car on fire. I love vigilante justice.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

What's your take on escalating violence?

Hope your sister in law’s car isn’t among those claimed in the coming reprisal.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

They do that in Baltimore when it snows a lot, but in that case they have worked really hard to dig the car out and to make a space where there was previously just snow…

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Happens in Boston, too. Disputes usually lead to fist-fights, which I imagine is a lighter penalty than you might incur for stealing a spot in Ball’merr.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seeing as 13 people were shot there this weekend, I think you are correct

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thirteen?

Really? That’s terrible.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

People are fucking morons about parking sometimes. Some people seriously think they have a right to the public street parking most convenient to their door.

I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com

by troymccluresf on Jun 21, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

All this quasi-saying has got me thinking

Grant is preparing to run for office.

"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.

by hairball on Jun 21, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Step 1: Back Handed Character Assassination of the Competition.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Step 2: Put your junk in that box.

"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.

by hairball on Jun 21, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Step 3: Grant becomes GM and continues crappy Sabean policies. McCoven are all “WTF??”

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Obama Method?

zing!

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

League average offense (according to team OPS+) is league average

Tied for 8th in NL

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rankings

Yes, and Lars’s use of ranking above (12th in offense), as to runs scored, is one of those deceit-by-statistics ploys: the Giants are just slightly below average there. The Giants have scored 293 runs, the Cubs have scored 294, and the Cardinals 306, which is in fact much of a muchness. I assume they are still also unlucky, in terms of having a better Pythagorean than actual record; and their actual record is fourth best in the NL.

by campanari on Jun 21, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Giants are 7th in the NL by wOBA

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Another precinct reports:

My calcs show them 5th in the NL is projected wins; regrettably, the 3rd and 4th teams (Colorado and San Diego) are also in the NL West. The offense is below average, but—as others have noted—by small margins in several cases.

The NL average of runs scored right now is 4.456 R/G; the SF number is 4.239, about 95% of the average. (Those are based on runs-scored calcs, not actual runs; the calcs usually are better indicators of future developments.) If we take those numbers out to 162 games, the league average would be 722 and the Giants would be 687. But keep in mind that the Giants number is heavily front-loaded with a lot of playing time by some pretty awful players, from Velez to Bowker (OK, OK, Bowlermaniacs, change to to “some pretty awful performers”). My reckoning is that the Giants can end up right around league average.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

No Tulowitzki for next 2 months.
My calcs show them 5th in the NL is projected wins; regrettably, the 3rd and 4th teams (Colorado and San Diego) are also in the NL West. The offense is below average, but—as others have noted—by small margins in several cases.

The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent

by hokysmksbw on Jun 21, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Plus . . .

. . . Colorado has a weird run-inefficiency in their “Pythags” that, I believe, is from having Jimenez pitch as he has—any Colorado runs in his starts beyond a couple are “wasted” offense. Every team gets some of that at times—who doesn’t wish we could “bank” some of yesterday’s runs?—but in Colorado it’s automatic every fifth day. So they may not end up rising to their projected level of wins. So it’s not yet as bad as trying to put toothpaste back in the tube.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

So do I need a new signature line then?

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the key to the anti-sabean movement not giving him a lot of credit for good moves is that nearly every positional starter (or should be starter) was overpaid the market price. The only starters to begin the season under or at market price where Bowker(now Torres), Uribe, and Huff. So out of 8 players 5 are over paid? Yeah, thats not good, but you could rejoice in the fact that rotation was the cheapest (or close) in the league and the best.

But now that the pitching staff is not so cheap and isn’t going to be getting any cheaper anytime soon his over pays are going to become more glaring obvious.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 9:54 AM PDT reply actions  

heh

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

by SoFa King Mike on Jun 21, 2010 9:57 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Well done.

"By the time I turned twelve, the Dodgers made me vomit." - Joey Margolis, Last Days of Summer

by Prussian Creole on Jun 21, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

We're Evaluating a GM

based not on the moves that he makes, but the moves that he doesn’t. We are officially the Giants’ front office.

Wow, great move there Brian, you didn’t trade Lincecum for Rios!

Wow, great move Brian, you didn’t trade Cain for Dunn.

Trading 25 year old pitchers who are already dominant is a decision no GM would make, so screw Sabean. He gets no credit. He hid behind Barry Bonds for years. He got credit for making a great trade when he acquired Jeff Kent, even though his aim was Julian Tavares. The guy has never really been a good GM, and since Barry left, the ‘warts’ (Sabean term, the reason he chose not to sign Adam Dunn) have really shown themselves.

He can’t spend money.

He can’t evaluate hitters.

He still signs injured veterans.

He overpays everything, even his hookers.

HE FUCKING SIGNED BRUCE BOCHY!

Brian Sabean sucks.

by BayLife5518 on Jun 21, 2010 9:59 AM PDT reply actions  

To be fair
He can’t spend money.

He does this at a better than league average rate. It is what he spends it on that is the problem.

WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience

by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 21, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Giants, top 10 payroll.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can’t spend money wisely. You’re correct.

by BayLife5518 on Jun 21, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

It is what he spends it on that is the problem.

This.

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jun 21, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

It makes you wonder if he’d be better with a small market club where he can only spend a few mil an offseason to upgrade the team for the short term while building the minor leagues (mostly through pitching).

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sabes to Tampa? :D

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jun 21, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Friedman & Carl Crawford for Sabean and Rowand

GIT R DUN NEUKOM BRASZ

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

HE FUCKING SIGNED BRUCE BOCHY

/end perfect rebuttal to Grant

"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.

by hairball on Jun 21, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not only did he sign him, he went after him while he was with the Padres!

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

not a good analogy

because the Giants didn’t already have a good manager

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

nah, I just like to point out when other people's are bad muahhahahaha

maybe like saying “hmm, this shit sandwich tastes like shit…I know! I’ll go buy a piss slushie instead!”

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

But in keeping with the tradition of Grant's post

I will rebutt myself, and say that at least Bochy, like Sabes, is good at handling pitchers. Hey, maybe part of Sabes’ problem is that he tries to hire folks with the same strengths, i.e. yes-men. It would certainly go with the insecurity theme so many seem to observe in the guy.

"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.

by hairball on Jun 21, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

overtippping is a generational fault
He overpays everything, even his hookers.

The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent

by hokysmksbw on Jun 21, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Anyone who has ever . . .

. . . worked for tips (as I have, driving a cab) is almost invariably a good tipper him or herself thereafter.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1

I believe everyone should have to work for tips at some point in their lives.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right.

So they can add something else to their list of “Things That Make Me Angry.”

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

/opens up filing cabinet
I can file it under T, with taxes, taxi drivers, tea leone’s voice, terminator timeline grievances, temporary tattoos, telephone conversations, telemarketers, …

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

rec'd

You had me at Tea Leoni. Voice or no, she’s awful.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Alright, I will say it

I do not agree with any job that has a tipping system.

People should not need an additional monetary incentive to do their job well. That is what employment and a recurring paycheck are for.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

How do you feel about incentives and bonuses?

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not a fan of them either.

Give them a raise if they have done well, move them up the ladder.

I would love to receive either, though. Also this is a somewhat different case. Incentives and bonuses are usually handed out by the company/entity you work for and are often included in your agreement of employment with the things you must do to achieve them.

Tips are given directly by the patrons with no real standard as to how you get them, and if a patron does not give a tip or a “good enough” tip, they are usually seen as stingy or a prick.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

And justly so.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like to think I do my job well

but I do not expect the people I help to have to give me 5 bucks every time I do something that was in my job description.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

The difference is . . .

. . . that you are on salary. People who work in tipping jobs are essentially independent contractors for whom each customer is a new client. Your waiter, for example, has earned—in practical terms—virtually zero for doing what is in his job description for you, unless you tip him.

That is, as almost everyone agrees, not how it should be, but it’s how it is and there is no change in sight. So think of it as you are hiring your waiter to serve you, and you pay him for doing his job; if he does it well, you pay well; if he does it poorly, you pay poorly.

(In San Francisco at least, taxi drivers are literally, in legal terms, independent contractors: they lease their cabs and pay their own gas. It is entirely possible to drive a full shift and lose money.)

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ok,

but you still do not tip a contractor when they come in and remodel your house.

I understand it may be shitty to work for a restaurant, and the pay may suck, that’s terrible and all, but I still do not agree with the societal conformity that you must tip these people if they are doing their job.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

But you still pay the contractor.

You don’t pay the waiter for service, unless you tip. You pay the restaurant for food.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

but in turn the restaurant pays the waiter.

Theoretically with the money I have paid. (even though its been shown by other posters that is not the case)

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

so why the fuck are you still arguing like it is

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

My initial point is I do not agree with the system of Tipping

and the expectation you must tip.

Somehow it has blossomed into the plight of the American waiter.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure you expected it to go this way when you posted the original comment. It’s not “somehow” blossoming into that discussion. You knew exactly what would happen the second you typed the words “Alright I will say it.”

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually when I have talked about this

with others, including the ones who have worked in the industry, this has never been brought up.

Which is why in some of my earlier comments I sound pretty surprised (well in my head anyway).

Usually the responsed I get are “if you worked in the industry you would know” or “you want good service so you tip”

Never any backstory into it.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ah, I was just going by the context. I took the words “Alright I will say it” to mean that you knew it was going to be an unpopular thing to say, which would then spiral from there.

I’ve been trying, not totally successfully, to keep my nose out of it.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh I apologize.

I just knew that to a lot of people that seems like an unpopular opinion. And now I know a bit of the reasoning behind it.

Although a lot of you are for more knowledgeable in society then those I have talked to in the past.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Be honest. You are continuing to participate in this discussion to assuage your guilt by justifying your assholery..

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh no, I have been an asshole for many years

and have come to loving grips with it.

I also have no guilt if I were to leave a person I feel did a bad job no tip. I have done it before and will do it again.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s the point of the tip. Although I usually leave a stingy tip rather than none…

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't recall the first.

But ok. It’s quite possible.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are you saying he’s responsible for the shanghaijim debacle?

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

That might actually be me. :(

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I miss old shanghaijjim…

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, nevermind

my bad scout6

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's all good

I think this may have been the first shitstorm I have started.

So I have started this, and the Star Wars Live Blog.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure whether to revere or revile you for the Star Wars thing…

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was better than going out and going on a killing spree. That StarWars thing happened after a very very bad game.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

It certainly helped take my mind off that terrible game.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Star Wars live blog was one of the most epic threads I’ve seen since I started posting.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Please explain.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 22, 2010 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nope

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree, I much prefer the European system of pricing the waiter into the cost of dinning.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 22, 2010 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

the differnce here is the contractor legal has the means, and recognized right, to bargin with you can place lean on property if the contract is not ment. Your restaurant worker not so much. In fact if they try that very offten they had better hope there is a lot low single diget unemployent rate in the area. And ask them about shops folding up and payroll not being met sometime.

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

But the restaurant worker has legal rights against the restaurant if they do not make payroll

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

but not the means. Teh put a lean of property and it ussaly called theft. And if you say get a lawyer whit what means?

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Devils advocate (cause I really do not know much about legal systems)

Pro bono work?

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unless the servers band together, then it’s Pro Cher work.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I would have gone with something involving running into a tree.

but yours was good too.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

“It is all down hill from here!”

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

/ golf clap!!

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s for the birds.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree with you. I think tipping has its place and should be reserved to allow a patron in a service provided type relationship the ability to reward someone who went above and beyond normal service.

It should not be expected and should be a pleasant surprise when it occurs. It seems to me the current system was put in place by the cheapskate owners of the businesses to lower costs and pass it along as a hidden cost to the consumer at the expense of the worker (since they can get screwed).

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is exactly correct.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I usually tip 18-20%

But if the waiter/waitress was terrible, I hope they like spare change.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I tip 10% minimum at a restaurant. That’s for bad service. 20% for good service. More for exceptional service.

Can anyone explain how it works when gratuity is worked into the check? Is that exactly the same as a tip, or does that money fail to go to the server?

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

gratuity = tip. usually done automatically for larger groups

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that’s how I’ve been assuming. I just wanted to be sure it was actually going to the server.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I will say

Places that do that for large groups, usually 8-10 or more only add like an 18% gratuity, which seems low even to me for a group that size.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Usually your entire tip won’t go to the server anyway. Some places pool tips and split them. Others make the servers ‘tip out’ the bartenders, bussers, and hostesses.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

"tipping out" is standard, and usually is only 15% or so of a server's tips

pooling tips is a practice I completely disagree with.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jun 21, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

pooling tips is a practice I completely disagree with

I thought this too until I started bartending. No matter how much better/faster I was at making drinks. The hot girls I worked with would always get bigger tips. It ended up working out though. They got to chat up the customers while I made drinks (which was my favorite part anyway).

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

Pooling tips is based on the concept, probably correct, that tips are much more often not related to the server deserving them as to the good or bad luck of getting a good tipper or a bad tipper. Not a lot of either kind actually does much scaling of the tip to the actual quality of the service (a few do, but the commonalty do not). So it’s a way of averaging the luck for the day.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

They should regress towards the mean, not to the mean.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

If gratuitiy is on there (usually for larger parties) that is the same as a tip. I’ve seen from 8% up to 20%.
If you aren’t sure just ask. One trick I’ve seen is where the server will try to hide it in order to get a ‘double grat’ because the customers doesn’t know they are automatically giving a tip.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Even for bad service, I'll still tip somewhere around 12-15%

But if it’s like that one waitress at the local BJ’s that barely came to our table, didn’t tell us why everything was taking so long, and took my plate away as i was eating the rest of my fries, then forget it.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

The whole server/customer dynamic is kind of funny. Customers can be dicks to the servers. Servers sit in the back and talk shit about customers. That movie Waiting is pretty close to reality I would say.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Minus the goat.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was reality where I worked but only after the movie came out.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am never a dick to anyone who could tamper with my food. Common sense, the movie got it right

Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE

by CB30 on Jun 21, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also . . .

. . . there are a lot of things that the customer may be unaware of, including an uncooperative kitchen and a server spread over too many tables. Rudeness is always inexcusable, but slow service often can’t be helped by the server.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree but I’ve definately worked with some inept servers. Actually, that is another thing that makes a server’s job harder too.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

The BJ’sin Folsom forgot to bring my order completely.Twice.

Just get the damn surgery, Mark DeRosa.

by oldjacket on Jun 21, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

and you hung your head and cried

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

He shot the waiter at BJ’s, just to watch him die.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Folsom BJ’s Blues?

Just get the damn surgery, Mark DeRosa.

by oldjacket on Jun 21, 2010 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

They saved you like 5,000 calories. You should tip them for that.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lame

BJ’s food isn’t spectacular anyway, so you figure they’d try to make up for it with customer service. Megh

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

agreed

neither the beer nor the food is particularly remarkable. They only thin they’re exceptional at is that they can seat a lot of people.

Just get the damn surgery, Mark DeRosa.

by oldjacket on Jun 21, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is pretty funny that this whole conversation got brought up.

My wife tipped the lady who cut her hair this weekend $10 for cut that cost $18. That’s a 64% tip!!

I asked her if she made a mistake, and she said no. I was shocked.

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond, Brian Anderson.
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jun 21, 2010 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ll tip $3 on a $5 cab ride some times.

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

They live to serve...you.

There are a few reasons I don’t eat out much.

Wait…dammit.

 I think the auto tip is wrong because it does give the staff incentive to bail on service. It angers me that when I get crappy service the right to speak on it monetarily has been taken out of my hands.
Also, when I used to run pizzas I tipped out even thought it wasn’t mandatory. I hoped to make an example the other drivers followed but they just smirked at the idiot.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Places/situation where I do not want to tip:

Haircuts (but I do), Subway, coffee shops, and self-serve frozen yogurt shops.

Why?

Barbers/hairstylists are charging for their labor already. If they do a great job, isn’t their reward my continued business? Still, I do it, but I really disagree with this. Also, Subway — same deal. They’re getting paid to assemble the sandwiches right in front of me. Coffee shops, too. Self-serve frozen yogurt shops… that’s self-explanatory.

Servers should get tipped extra because they are attending to your needs which could change and is not under their control.

I think I give this too much thought, but I have plenty of time to ponder in that barber’s chair.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow you tip at Subway?

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sometimes. There are a lot of immigrants down here and my bleeding liberal heart kicks in sometimes.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

sometimes they throw a little extra cheese or meat your way. what else you gonna do?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

some Subways actually make fantastic-looking subs (obviously, the taste of Subway is… mediocre at best).

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sometimes only a sweet onion chicken teriyaki sandwich on an Italian herb and cheese roll will do.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

And if I don't tip they're NOT going to "attend to my needs"?

Yes, I understand prompt service, but if I don’t get at the very least adequate service management’s gonna hear about it.

Then of course servers will remember me. “Oh, he’s THAT dick…”

Which is why I’m happy at home serving myself.

I remember reading that veiwpoint in Vegas papers – “TIP OR ELSE.”
Fuck that.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why tip someone for a job I’m capable of doing myself? I can deliver food. I can drive a taxi. I can, and do, cut my own hair. I did however, tip my urologist, because I am unable to pulverize my own kidney stones.

by Natto on Jun 21, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Urologist: This may feel a little uncomfortable, so try not to get an erection.
You: Too late.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's not embarassing.

But leaving a sample when she didn’t ask for one might be.

The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent

by hokysmksbw on Jun 21, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tipped her?

I barely knew her!

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

That explains a lot re: the hair.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

While you may not agree with the tipping system, many places tax servers based on sales. So if they don’t recieve at least enough to cover tax. That table actually costs them money.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

The problem is . . .

. . . that things are as they are. It would be nice if folk like waiters got decent salaries so that tips weren’t an absolutely essential part of their income, but it is not that way and it never will, in the foreseeable future, be that way. So, given that most of these people make what amounts to near-zero income other than what they get in tips (I have even heard of people who pay to have the job, negative income), it behooves us to tip because otherwise we are freeloading and getting their services for zero.

The only place I can recall where salaries were adequate and tipping not allowed or strongly disapproved (I forget which) was iceland, at least back in the early ’70s when we visited. In Europe, it is customary to automatically add the tip into the bill, so that in effect there is no “tipping” save in name; as best I recall, customers show approval or satisfaction by leaving some token symbolic penny or whatever.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Forgive me, but
So, given that most of these people make what amounts to near-zero income other than what they get in tips (I have even heard of people who pay to have the job, negative income), it behooves us to tip because otherwise we are freeloading and getting their services for zero.

This is bullshit.

There is a minimum wage for a reason, move on to a better job, something other then put in a system where people are expected to have to tip. I have not traveled to any foreign countries so I cannot explain why they have it there. But in the United States it seems like an unnecessary system.

Again, you should already be doing your job well. Tipping is only in certain industries, you tip the waiter, but not the chef (communal tips in a restaurant aside), you tip the cab driver, but not the dispatcher. It’s just silly to me.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

fyi

you tip the waiters/waitresses because they actually make their living from the tips. this is due to the very high taxes specific to their industry. even their hourly income is allowed to be lower than minimum wage. the higher tax rate drives the take home pay even further. after all is said and done, the average waitstaff takes home only a couple dollars per hour from their wages. in they end you still adjust your tipped amount based on the level of service, but you might start at a higher amount.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have had numerous friend in that profession

Places from Denny’s to Black Angus who have all told me stories of walking out with anywhere from 100 bucks to 500 bucks a shift.

I do not feel for them.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

sure, but the point is that they’ll not making a significant portion of their income from their hourly wages. plus those instances may be peak earning potential (or outliers), whereas most nights might not be so profitable.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ask them if they have ever made < $20 in a shift.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am pretty sure they would go

“LOL NO”

They never seemed strapped for cash.

Two of them are married now and unemployed, so now they are.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL your friends != every server in the world

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also psychology majors.

Not my friends, one of them actually wants to be a LOLinguist and learn several different languages and become a court translator or something.

Yeah, they are keepers.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you work 300 nights a year and make $100 in tips

That’s $30,000. In today’s world, that’s really not that much.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Plus no benefits, paid time off, etc…

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

this was $300 walking away.

There are plenty of people that see only 30K of their money after taxes and are just fine.

I agree that is not a great amount to live off of, but I just do not see the fact that I should tip them because life is hard.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

they get 3.00 an hour

and you think they shouldn’t get tips? You’re an asshole then.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

fuck tipping

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cow tipping

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

friends have done it

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

THOSE COWS WORK FOR GRASS AND RELY ON TIPPING!

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Past time of teenagers in the Central Valley!

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL FRESNO PEOPLE

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol modestans

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL Turlock people.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL Firebaugh people

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL Madera people.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL CLOVIS people

i can do this all day youngn’

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's like a lesson on the boundaries of my council.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hence, LOL CENTRAL VALLEY

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL Tulare people.

Who you callin youngn’? I’m only, like, four years younger than you!

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

UR YOUNGER THAN ME!!

LOL VISALIA!!!

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL CHOWCHILLA

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL LOS BANOS

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL DELHI

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL BUCHANNAN HIGH SCHOOL

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL I know someone who goes to Buchannan.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait you broke the chain

That is not a community name.

WALKOFF WINS

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

WOOHOOOO

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Was it on a walkoff?

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I DO WHAT I WANT!

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

REBEL SCUM

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

/banned

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

POSEY FOR FIELDER

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

BANNED. FUCKING BANNED.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

CAIN FOR RIOS

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL Waterford

ftw

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Waterford is good for 2 things and 2 things only.

Taqueria Castillo and Chili Wagon

Bleeding orange and black since 1987

by TehGreekStallion on Jun 21, 2010 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

And Snipe Huntin’!

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

douche

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

NO U

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

i won’t ask for proof on this topic. agreed.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I believe I already mentioned I was an asshole.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

And also said then they need to work to change a system

where it is THE NORM to get 3.00 an hour.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

What the fuck are they supposed to do about it?

it’s a state law. They’re too busy working to offset the cost of people like you not tipping them to worry about lobbying their local member of congress to change a law that they don’t give a shit about.

Here’s a better idea: tip them a couple extra fucking dollars. It’ll make their life way better and won’t affect you at all.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

(Douchy comment I could not keep out of my head)

Or I could keep my money and it still would not affect me at all!

But serious, if this is such a great social problem our system (government, legal what have you) can be used to change it. It is inhumane for someone to be making 3.00 and hour. The federal minimum wage is 7.00 something (irrc) the State is 8.00.

If they can show this is not the case and that they are making less, go about the proper channels to get it fixed.

Do not rely on the public having to pick up the slack and pay them the extra money in strange system that only applies to a few work classifications.

In short: FIX THE REAL FUCKING PROBLEM THEN.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Again, they can't

or they probably would have. If you still don’t want to tip them after finding out how the system works, that’s your business. But it’s pretty fucked up.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Then we reach an agreement.

However the argument they can’t does not work.

Severe streching in some of these be warned:
Women can’t vote
Children can’t work less then 12 hours a day
There can’t (ignore the grammar) be a mandated minimum wage
There can’t be workers rights

All those used to be the norm at one time, until someone decided to change them.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

The second one made me laugh; it’s not like 8 year olds stopped working 12 hours a day by starting to organize protests and writing letters to their Congressmen.

As for the other 3: one difference seems to be that while women stay women and workers usually stay workers, waiters generally don’t expect to stay waiters forever.

Successfully changing laws takes years, sometimes a lifetime. Most waiters probably don’t stay waiters long enough (or at least don’t expect to) in order change the system.

And anyway, using your example: if you lived in another period, when some of the groups you mentioned (or any other group) were being taken advantage of, would you just say “screw it, you guys need to fix the real problem, I’m not gonna help you”?

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am not the guy to try and rally a social agenda behind.

Even if I were a part of the problem or involved in it. I would not be that guy.

But the question is complex, would I still have my same upbringing? If so then I would be for them getting the help and changes they needed, I just do not know what I could have done to help them. If I could help I probably would.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, yes, please . . .

. . . and cure cancer and world peace and all that. Tomorrow, right?

It is absolutely astounding how many utterly shabby excuses cheapskates can come up with to justify the reality that, at bottom, they are simply cheapskates.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yup, I grew up in a family of cheapskates and I agree that there is never a shortage of excuses or rationalizations.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

hey we agree!

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

If I were a cheapskate, I would not tip at all.

And yeah I would like all those other things you mentioned.

But thats ok, because I can go around and project my opinions on others just because they do not believe as I do.

I have my beliefs on the tipping system, but because it is not the same as yours I am a cheapskate. This is exactly why I have a problem with the whole thing. Thanks for proving that in the most dickish way possible.

THANKS!

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of course, you could look at it as an opportunity to be generous to people who probably need it, even if you don’t like the system that brought it about.

This isn’t an attempt to throw out a guilt trip, by the way – but a little shift in perspective will do wonders sometimes.

I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?

by Ott on Jun 21, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

their hourly income is allowed to be lower than minimum wage

This is true.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Meh

get a union or move on to a better job then.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not really.

That is just my opinion. I still do tip, but I am a self admitted pretty cheap tipper.

If they screw up anything, no tip at all.

Yeah, I am also a full fledged asshole.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

At least you admit it.

The worst was the verbal tip.

Customer: Oh you did a great job! Thank you so much!
Me (in my head): Sweet I’ll probably get like 20% on this one!
/goes back to table to find shitty tip or nothing at all.

Landlord: Hey I need that rent money.
Me: Well I don’t have your money but I’ve been told I’m good at my job!

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think I have ever given anyone 20%

I may have topped out at the 15%-17% range, and that was if the person really wowed me.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is why . . .

. . . someone suggested upthread that everyone should have to work for tips for a while. Walk a mile in the other guy’s shoes, and all that. See how you feel about tipping when it’s you that was the recipient, not the giver.

The only two tippable jobs I know of offhand that really make out very well are airport skycaps and major-hotel doormen.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is probably just my personality

but if I worked in a place that was based on tipping, I think I would tip less then normal because of how pissed at the system I would be. Plus I would want to hold on to my money more.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

you're kind of a douche then

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's a question then

i go into a coffee place religiously back in Ohio, usually use my card, so there’s a line for tip, do i tip? NO, because i’m going in there every fucking day anyway, there’s no point to it. However, if i were to get carryout from a place i’d usually tip maybe 2 bucks or if that for a 8 dollar breakfast

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Coffee shops I agree

because they can make a decent wage. Servers in restaurants deserve tips.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

k, see that’s where it is, SERVERS deserve tips, that’s why when i go carryout, i rarely ever tip, if i do it’s not that much, since the servers are literally only taking my cash and giving me my food which is just sitting there

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you have that backwards. You tip the people in your most frequented establishments BECAUSE THEY HANDLE YOUR FOOD AND DRINK EVERY DAY.
I have been a disgruntled employee in the food service industry and all I can say is keep your eyes open when they are preparing your coffee.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

K, if you don't pay any attention to them

and just expect your shit to be ready that’s just being an ass. However on multiple occasions i have gone to get coffee and also food from this breakfast place in Oxford and they’ve given it to me for free since i’ve been such a great guy and plus they like my business there obviously

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

don’t forget to tip on the cost of the freebee. they do you favor, do them in kind

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Usually i just give em a buck or two extra

the next time

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

From Wikipedia

Extortion, outwresting, and/or exaction is a criminal offense which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person(s), entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups. The actual obtainment of money or property is not required to commit the offense. Making a threat of violence which refers to a requirement of a payment of money or property to halt future violence is sufficient to commit the offense. Exaction refers not only to extortion or the unlawful demanding and obtaining of something through force,1 but additionally, in its formal definition, means the infliction of something such as pain and suffering or making somebody endure something unpleasant.

Again, fuck THAT.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

This has been said, yeah I am an asshole

but I still do not see the point in being EXPECTED to tip.

I still tip, but I do not like the culture behind it, especially when you get a server who feels they are entitled to it, and try to convince everyone else of it.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

YOU JERK!!

NO SIMONIAN FARMS FRUIT FOR YOU!

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Would they expect a tip?

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nah, doubt it

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Then I would still buy for them.

Was searching their site last night. Just made me hungry.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

They got some good stuff there. AND none of this NOISE about tipping

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cow tipping is actually a horrible thing.

But dried fruit is always a good thing

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes some servers are dicks

and you tip them less. But the point is that they make like 3.00/hour if you don’t tip them. I have a hard time imagining someone would be OK with someone else trying to live on 3.00/hour when all you have to do is tack an extra buck onto the cost of dinner to help them out.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Again

I do tip. My problem is with the idea and system of tipping.

I also do not tip exhorbant (sp?) amounts.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

yea, i usually do what goofus does

tip to the level of how good the service was

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

How bout this bondslegend

Dad took my 2 friends and i out to BJ’s Brewery in Cincy, this was my birthday dinner as well. We wanted to get beer to take home, and they “told” us they didn’t have any to take home, when we would see others being given beer to take home. State law in Ohio is that you can drink as long as a parent is present. Dad tipped the waitress 1 dollar for a 60 or so dollar dinner

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

OT: BJ's

Anyone had their self brewed root beer? and been as not impressed as I was?

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, i used to have it

it wasn’t that great… i’d have IBC over it

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like Henry Winehards

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am for BJ’s

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait that didn’t come out right.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

TWSS

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

About all you're good for

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

BJ’s is super awesome. I have no idea about their beer, as that would be illegal

Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE

by CB30 on Jun 21, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fixed
BJ’s is are super awesome

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought about editing my own comment. But im not that lame

Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE

by CB30 on Jun 21, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I enjoyed it

The one thing at BJ’s that disappoints me is the potato skins

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love the Avacado Egg rolls

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

nope

you tip extra to get the karma going

by mocal on Jun 21, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

/paying it forward

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Karma, as our society defines it, doesn’t exist.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, if you tip extra, the waiter might be in a better mood, which will help the next customer, who might be your boss, who will appreciate the cheery service and come into work the next day and give everybody an extra lunch, paid.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did somebody overdose on happy pills?

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ll know in about two and a half more hours.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope to be asleep by then. Have fun!

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or my boss could be getting such great & fast service, he deciides to order an extra drink, gets in his car and runs over your cat. Try to think about that the next time you go over 18%.

But I really meant is that whatever goes around, doesn’t come around.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

’cept maybe the flu.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, yeah.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

mmmmmm carmel….

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I do love . . .

. . . that if. Try it, then report back to us.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

No thanks, cause I have a job I like

where I do not have to rely in tips.

Geeze, did you take an extra dose of your HolierThanThou this morning?

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's this hat. It gets passed around.

Never read him wearing it, but this is one of those touchy subjects people are strongly divided on.

Next up: abortion rights

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

ABORTIONS FOR SOME

MINIATURE AMERICAN FLAGS FOR OTHERS!

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

SCOUT 6: VCR TOWEL

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

This makes me want to watch Scrooged.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have an opinion about those!

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your opinion is wrong

Here is your new opinion

Bork

by CB30 on Jun 21, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also you are a douche for having you opinion that is different then mine!

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

My Mayorof311 imitation

NOT THEN THAN!!!!!!!!

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 21, 2010 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

He got me once.

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 21, 2010 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I saw a guy at a hotel taxi stand raking it one night

The line was contstantly 10 people deep and the taxis were rolling in one after another. As fast as people could get in, he’d open the door and collect a tip.

Mrs. Goofus and I did the math. A taxi was pulling up every 10 seconds. Even if each tip was only a dollar, which it wasn’t, that’s $360/hour for opening doors and saying thank you.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is pretty much correct.

As I said somewhere elsethread, the two jobs that really do make exorbitant incomes from tiips are major-hotel doormen and airport skycaps.

Did you realize that at least in SF if a doorman puts a fare into a cab and the fare is going to the airport, the cab driver has to tip the doorman? In my day, it was $1, but just going up to $2. I suspect today it’s $3 or more. The doorman usually sticks his hand behind his back as he ushers the fare into the cab and the driver puts it in that hand. Watch for a while some time (though I gather that taxi airporters are become scarce in these days of vans).

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

We went to a concert at the Fillmore once and that’s what some homeless dude was doing. Helping people into their taxis.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did you get a poster?

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

For a minute there I thought you meant like did we get to take home Natto, or SFGuy or something.

Anyways…

No we didn’t get one that time. Mr. Merope got a poster when he went to see wuzziz name…dammit…. Willie Nelson.
No They Might Be Giants posters.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hate not getting a poster. Mountain Goats was my biggest disappointment yet.

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Were you at the show in November?

I wanted a poster then.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep.

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

You should see the valets at the Phoenix Ritz - Carlton.

They run.
I hear the tips also run…around $20 per.

Yes, I know there’s a cause/effect dynamic to tipping. But that sense of entitlement is what puts me off. And that song about how oppressed they are financially makes me tone deaf. Find something more lucrative.

Oh, you say your position IS something lucrative…but only if I tip you?

Well, there we are.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've worked at a tipping job

I’m not a huge tipper. I’m just average.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I worked at a tipping job too

Where I’d get about as much in tips as the people who didn’t care as much about the job, didn’t do as much work, and were sometimes rude to the customers. That’s why I tip based on how good the service was.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the job I worked at was like that

Pizza delivery. I was the best worker, by far. I didn’t get any more in tips because that really didn’t matter to the customer. They just care whether the pizza gets there in a timely manner (which often has little to do with the driver).

I understand the appeal of getting a good tip. But, I’m not going to be extravagant with regards to tipping because if that is a problem for you, you should be in a different industry.

I usually tip at the standard rate (15%).

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

My wife used to be a waitress

Her mean is the same as a normal person but the variance is much higher. She’s very generous with good service and vindicative as hell to bad service.

Just get the damn surgery, Mark DeRosa.

by oldjacket on Jun 21, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m just average.

TWSS to you

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 22, 2010 6:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I usually figure 20% then round up to the next dollar (good or bad). I figure it’s a good tip for good service. If it was bad oh well because I have gotten a good tip for bad service before.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not directing this at you

but here is kinda my problem

I figure it’s a good tip for good service

I should expect to get good service tip or no tip.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

the service at McDonalds is pretty crappy, because they don’t get tipped. You go to a nice restaurant and want nice service, leave a tip

by mocal on Jun 21, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I very much tip according to the level of service

If the server is attentive, makes good recomendations and acts like their glad we’re there, I’ll go 20-25%. If they act like they’d rather be somewhere else, give off an attitiude or disappear for long periods, they’ll get less….sometimes far less.

My pet peeve is being made to wait with no explanation. I’m perfectly ok with “We’re a little short-handed right now, I’ll be with you in just a moment.” or “The kitchen is a little backed up, but your food will be ready in just a couple more minutes.”, but when I’m left to wonder if I’ve been completely forgotten, it pisses me off.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

this

and then they show up with nary an explanation and act like it’s your fault for being upset. I fully endorse stiffing that kind of service.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

It is always the kitchen’s fault. Rarely will you hear, “Hey, sorry I was waiting for your food when I realized I forgot to put in your order.”

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

At least

Everytime I have had an order that was forgotton to be put in, it’s been a free meal. With no kicking and screaming from me.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

this has happened to you more than once?

and not just one item, the whole meal? Jesus, where do you eat? No wonder you’re a shitty tipper…

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jun 21, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have been around

One was at a Denny’s in Pleasanton, another some restaurant in Livermore.
Those are the ones off the top of my head I can remember.

And it was just my dish. I have luck like that.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Denny’s? pfft that’s not food, it’s charcoal.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

But, PLEASANTON!

It’s supposed to be nicer.

Man I hate that town.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Denny’s is like New York – if you can make it there you can make it anywhere.

It’s also where I’ve seen more moms working their tails off to provide for themselves and their families…and that gets my gratuities flowing.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Denny’s is like New York. It sucks.

Kidding. I love Denny’s

Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG

by Useful_Idiot on Jun 21, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Denny's is not too bad for breakfast.

That’s about it.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Man, this
My pet peeve is being made to wait with no explanation.

I hate being sat by a host(ess) and not seeing the waiter for 5-10 minutes. Not even a “Hey folks, I will be with you in a minute”

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Much of that . . .

. . . is sheer lack of training. A server should always, when passing any table of theirs, ask if there is anything they can get or do. They don’t even necessarily have to get or do whatever, at least not right away, but show the concern. When orders have been taken, nod in passing and say “your order whould be here soon”. The cardinal sin is assuming that you need not pay any attention to the table at all unless you are doing a mandatory thing—taking the order or delivering the food. (Close behind is the “Who gets the X?”—Take notes. Act like they’re human beings, not conveyer chutes.)

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

20% is considered by many to be the standard tip, then adjust from there based on service.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

...

Doesn’t everyone want that?

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

usually easier said than done. what, with the resistance many employers have toward the formation of unions.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Totally late to the party, but this is not true in California. Waitstaff must be paid minimum wage.

 

by kdl on Jun 21, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd say LOL New York

Except it’s not really funny

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think a lot of states have the other rule. California has pretty progressive labor laws.

I still tip. Tipping doesn’t bother me because it creates an incentive for better service (theoretically, at least). I hate tipping at cofffee/yogurt/Subaway shops, though.

by kdl on Jun 21, 2010 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

This only helps my arguement apparently.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

so wait, I’m just quickly scanning this, but are you saying Sabean was a hooker?

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Original Sabean didn't suck

Darryl Hamilton (+ scrub) for Ellis Burks is probably the best trade in SF Giants history, partly because it cannot be defined as an accident (as the Kent deal can be).

Vogelsong (+ chaff) for Jason Schmidt is probably the second.

I don’t like Sabean much now, but the best of his trades are better than any other SF GM’s best. The only thing close was Rosen’s Brown-Davis-Comstock-Grant for Mitchell-Dravecky-Lefferts.

"That sort of thing only happens to white people."
- Kirby Puckett joking about the fairy-tale nature of his friend, Cal Ripken Jr., homering in his final All-Star Game

by achiappanza on Jun 21, 2010 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

There are other trades I like over the Burks trade

mostly because Daryl Hamilton had a nearly .400 OBP that year.

Nothing of consequence was given up for Nen, or Schmidt. I think both of those trades were better.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

My thinking

They might be better on the net balance sheet, but that’s because the prospects didn’t pan out. That’s a known risk for those kind of trades, and c’est la vie.

When you trade two veterans playing similar positions, it’s a challenge trade, where their expected performances should be well known. I think that’s a prouder win, even if the final discrepancy is less.

"That sort of thing only happens to white people."
- Kirby Puckett joking about the fairy-tale nature of his friend, Cal Ripken Jr., homering in his final All-Star Game

by achiappanza on Jun 21, 2010 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great

Now Sabean is gonna go trade Bumgarner and Neal for Brandon Inge.

Thanks Grant.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:10 AM PDT reply actions  

Since the 6/17 Andres Torres article

Torres is 2-12 in 14 plate appearances.

.167/.286/.167

The Grant jinx lives on.

WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience

by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 21, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

small sample size.

more importantly, since my birth, the giants haven’t won a championship. i think my jinx carries a little more weight

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m certainly carrying more weight since the jinx.

/ice cream

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

/drools for H.D. mint chip

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m still running standard definition mint chip.

by Natto on Jun 21, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Just upgraded to 3DHD. The texture of the chips is amazing.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

As a texture eater, I’m glad to see that there is finally a useful application for 3D.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bone chips?

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Italian bone chips?

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m trying to get back under 180 pounds since the jinx, but I don’t think it’s working.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Just when you thought you'd seen it all...

…my freezer.
Though I’m certain the “Like minds” thing serves me more than it does yourselves I thought it humorous that while I normally favor chocolate…

Per the inevitable questions or simply “Eeeyewww!”re the bottles – hey, it’s 90+ degrees out there. The socks are wet. The water in the fabric evaporates, which by nature of the heatsucking nature of evaporation keeps the bottle’s contents cooler than no energy transfer (dry bottle) at all.

Trust me, I’ve proved this one out in Hell’s Kitchen for 30+ years.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, the apparent grunginess of the socks is more disturbing.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

this

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep, they're grungy all right.

.
I take great care not to drink from the outside of the bottle.

I also make sure I dress them in fine sables for our ventures ’round the Arizona Biltmore area.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

And all the tourists say, “Who’s the fellow with the fetching socks on his water bottles? Are all the locals this stylish?”

But seriously, the next time I go hiking in a desert locale, I’ll keep this in mind.

I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?

by Ott on Jun 21, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

But seriously, the next time I go hiking in a desert locale, I’ll keep this in mind.

Camelpack FTW

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

this

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Function over form, baby.

And no, the other locals do the Camelpak thing (I cannot say whether that’s better thermally but it holds more), using sandwich walled insulating bottles or they’re drinking warm liquids out of bare bottles.

Me, I like what works. And cheaply.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

My jinx is over
more importantly, since my birth, the giants haven’t won a championship. i think my jinx carries a little more weight

Unless you were born in late 1954, those dates don’t coincide.

I was born a few hours after the Giants won their last World Series game in 1962. They didn’t win another one until 2002, when my jinx ended!

"That sort of thing only happens to white people."
- Kirby Puckett joking about the fairy-tale nature of his friend, Cal Ripken Jr., homering in his final All-Star Game

by achiappanza on Jun 22, 2010 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

also team's leading K victim

The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent

by hokysmksbw on Jun 21, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sabean (and/or his scouts) seems to have a good eye for veteran talent. He did well in the early part of the decade, hit a long dry spell, and now seems to have rediscovered the Midas touch, but that’s probably just luck. Overall, I’d guess that he’s ahead of the projection systems a bit.

The problem is that it’s almost impossible to build a winning team without a lot of young talent as well.

by Evan on Jun 21, 2010 10:17 AM PDT reply actions  

Nathan/Liriano/Bonser deal still sucks ass because it was those guys for A.J. Pierzynski. Not because A.J. is a Pivenian asshole, but because trading that many players to upgrade your team’s offense at the CATCHING POSITION is a fucking travesty.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:19 AM PDT reply actions  

So if we had traded those guys for ANY catcher, it would have been a bad deal?

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes,

I don’t believe that you look for offense at the catching position, especially in a trade scenario where that position player is the centerpiece.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

If the Twins had decided to keep Pierzynski and trade the other guy, I don’t think we’d be complaining about the deal.

by Evan on Jun 21, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

True, but that is still looking at the outcome rather than the process, to quote another McCoven…

And, you can take that and just insert it into any situation to make it pretty — if the Giants had signed Vlad instead of Tucker & The Slow Swingers we wouldn’t be complaining, etc.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not because A.J. is a Pivenian asshole, but because trading that many players to upgrade your team’s offense at the CATCHING POSITION is a fucking travesty.

You mean, B/C THE TWINS HAD JOE MAUER AND HAD NO USE FOR AJ AND THE GIANTS STILL OVER PAID EVEN THOUGH THE TWINS NEEDED TO DUMP AJ SOON TO GET ANY VALUE OUT OF HIM!

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

/whispers “dont forget the part about Yorvit Torrealba”

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

I had forgotten...

that kills me. I couldn’t understand (at the time) why they were just giving up on Torrealba. And, by the way, I liked Pierzynski, thought he was a solid player, but I just didn’t see the necessity.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Torrealba pffft he was a minor league acquisition… not a savvy vet!!! He couldn’t possibly have been any good!!!

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wait... proven track record...

Torres was a track star… it all makes sense!

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think catcher, because it’s an offensively starved position, is a good place to trade for offense. An offensive catcher is a very nice piece for the team. Not sure Pierzynski was that nice piece though.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think a good-hitting catcher is found money unless that guy is so obviously a great hitter that his offense would be welcome at any position.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sort of OT:

With 20/20 hindsight, if you had a chance to make, or take back one move (trade, FA signing, or draft), that Sabean and front office has made during his tenure as GM, what would it be?

The AJ & Zito moves do not count.

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

by SoFa King Mike on Jun 21, 2010 10:19 AM PDT reply actions  

Rowand Deal

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Nothing else even comes close.

WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience

by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 21, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah

I was going to try and say Fred Lewis, but I couldn’t bring myself to do it.

Adopted father of Eric Surkamp, the next great big-eared soft tossing lefty in SF Giants History!

by Speedforthewin on Jun 21, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

I liked Fred

But I could do a lot more with $12m per season than with 1 Fred

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guess not signing Vladimir Guerrero or Carlos Beltran would be pretty high up after Rowand.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

But all those guys that helped us win all those WS games!

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah especially if you remove it's only real competition in the question.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Rajai Davis DFA sort of irks me.

VROOOOOOOM > nasty grit shit

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

by SoFa King Mike on Jun 21, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes.

If you take away the Zito and AJ options then this is the correct answer.

by chilibean_3 on Jun 21, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sabean’s 2005 contract.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm

/five birds drop dead

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’d have to go with this one.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Jason Ellison deal really killed me.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sign Vlad

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

This

Hell, Vlad would’ve been a decent signing this offseason

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Steve Reed for Jose Mesa

The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent

by hokysmksbw on Jun 21, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

OH! Oh!! Can I play!?!?

Off the top of pointy head in chronological order:

Letting Kent walk. BLB was so good even the Aliens where afraid of him but Bonds with Kent could carry the likes of Bell and JT Snow offensively.

Vlad. Thinking Alfanzo would "bounce back" and be enough of a replace for Kent that Vlad was unnecessary is kind of like peeing on the same electric fence. Twice in the same hour.

Not trading Jason Schmidt on ’05 ( or ’06). Let us remember ’05 was the year Pedro Feliz played far more LF then BLB. If the team was not going to reload around BLB (see above mentioned picks) then at least cash out and get some "B" – "A" prospect level help to the rebuild would not have to be lower than death valley to start with. Maybe 1-2 of them is at least a 2 War position players on the ’08 or ’09 squads. I don’t think I need to mention how few 2+ WAR position players the ’07-’09 squads had.

It kind has a “Why is this wall not a door?” feeling to it.

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

That last one is a good one.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I feel like Dave Chapelle

in that sketch where he’s going through the OJ trial’s jury selection “I’m sorry sir, but my blackness will not allow me to comment”

I get a physical reaction when I try to give Sabean credit. He is a terrible GM. Even terrible GMs make moves that work out. But he is a terrible GM and we shouldn’t lose sight of that fact just because we have a few pitchers who are fun to watch and because a few hitters are suddenly having the flukiest of all flukey years.

Sabean is one of the 5 worst GMs in baseball. I don’t think we need to give him credit for simply not being THE worst.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 10:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Very true. I don’t think Grant is saying he’s good though, just that he should get credit for certain things. In the end, fire his ass.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah I know

but I don’t get the point of saying “well, he COULD be a lot worse!” He’s already terrible!

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

That’s true. It could be worse is a nice thought sometimes, but even if it’s true it’s not always worth mentioning. Even if something could be worse, it can still suck.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's not an unmitigated disaster!

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hypothetical questions

The Giants are currently “in this thing” again. I’m curious if your stance would change based on how the season plays out.

What if the Giants won the division?
What if The Giants won the pennant?
What if the Giants won it all?

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

And what if Natalie Portman suddenly decided she wanted to marry me?

Wow, this little sitting around thinking of things that are never going to happen thing is awesome! Obviously if we won the world series I would have to give him some credit. But in case you haven’t noticed, we haven’t made the playoffs for 7 fucking years. So I doubt there’s much chance that we’ll suddenly win it all.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not necessarily saying it'll happen...

But if you look at a lot of world series teams in the past…
They really came out of nowhere.

It wouldn’t be the weirdest thing in the world to see a team with the best pitching in the game and a league average offense make it to the world series.

by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 21, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol ok

let’s just say I won’t be holding my breath. Though if we do make it into the playoffs, very few teams will want to face LIncecum/Cain/Zito in a 5 game series.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

With Sanchez in the bullpen, no less

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe...

As my friend said the other night… “Yeah, but where’s that 3rd run going to come from?”

This offense can still get shut down on any given night (probably like most teams in MLB), look amateurish on any given night (like some teams in MLB) and make journeyman peanut vendors look like Gandalf the White (like no teams in MLB).

I like our pitching in a 5-game series, but I don’t think this team even gets that far. The Giants are still probably 3rd or 4th best in their own division.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m going to repeat what I said on another thread – the Giants aren’t contenders until they can establish that they can win on the road.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Fixed
the Giants aren’t contenders until they can establish that they can win on the road. beat the good teams in their own division.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, that too. I might even change that to

beat the good teams in their own division Dodgers

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or the motherfucking Padres.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

There were my first intended target.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just find it flabber-gasting that A) the Padres are actually good this year and B) we can’t buy a frigging win against them.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ve said it before, the Giants can win it all with Sabean’s method of building the lineup with mediocre veteran players with a decent amount of upside. It’s just not a strategy that should be used and it has a small chance of sustaining successful playoff seasons (unless you got another Barry Bonds lying around).

Odds are he’s not going to find another Uribe next year or another Huff. And even if he does, the Giants payroll dictates that the offense should be better and it should not have to rely on taking gambles from the bargain bin.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

yes

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

If the Giants did all of those things,

they would be in spite of Brian Sabean, not because of him.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

#1: Great 10 more years of Big Head and SAbean. It was ( will have been) a fun party but why am I stuck with a hangover like I was on a 2 year binge?

#2: That was damn fun! Of damn is the operative word here because we will now have 15 years of the Gritty Gamer Duo.

#3: Oh HELLA Yes!!!! Of course Dr. Faustus will be viewing plays about how painful of a deal we struck with Mephistopheles ….

Honest enough for you?

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Should anyone really change his opinion of a GM who has 14 years of track record based on how his team preforms in one season?

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Sabean probably deserves more credit than the McCoven gives him. But yeah, he got lucky this offseason that Uribe and Huff are hitting well, that Burrell decided to hit well, that Posey tore it up at an unsustainable rate when he was called up. And Molina remains at catcher. The luck does not hide the stupidity.

He has built a pretty nice rotation though. That’s true.

Also, Edgar tastes great with melted chocolate and marshmallows.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 10:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: the last sentence

I call it a S’Less!

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

lulz

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why do panned signings that work out get dismissed as luck?

You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.

by SeeingStars on Jun 21, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Because for every one that works out

there have been like 10 that haven’t. And he hasn’t learned the lesson yet, so he keeps doing it

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

surely the 1 in 10 success rate is a bit intentionally pessimistic to illustrate your point. has anyone actually gone through and categorically rated all the trades/drafts/signings for each of the GMs throughout baseball?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

obviously it was an exageration

but it’s to prove the point that Sabean doesn’t know how to build an offense. He thinks it can be done by signing a bunch of veterans, which is why his teams have been consistently ranked so low offensively.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

i’m afraid that what you’re saying doesn’t prove one way or another the relative value of his trades on an objective scale. all you have done is opine for better offense and shown your distaste for veterans. is there anywhere that you can point to that rates the trades/signings/draftings of a GM over a period time?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

A team that relies on signing players that are over 30,

as the Giants have done, will not be successful. Unless you consistently sign the BEST players available (the Yankees), but that’s not what the Giants do. Look at the last few teams to win the world series: Yankees (sign best FAs available), Phillies (Howard, Utley, Victorino, Hamels, Rollins all drafted by them), Red Sox (Many home grown players, also sign best available FAs).

The Cardinals, White Sox, Red Sox, and Marlins all had very very good young homegrown talent. It’s true that sometimes you might need to make a veteran FA signing, but it’s retarded to think that you can build an entire offense out of them! Come on.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

fair enough, though i’m still not convinced this proves sabean is bad or good. i myself don’t really have a strong opinion either way about his performance. again, is there anywhere i can go that provides a comparison or objective analysis?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

are you kidding?

you’re not willing to admit that a GM whose team hasn’t been in the playoffs for 7 years despite having a top 10 payroll isn’t good? Really?

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

nevermind. i’m just looking for something that i can review to help form my own opinion. i understand and respect that you have already drawn your own conclusions. an objective source is all i’m asking for.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

How about you look at every team with a top 10 payroll

and see how well they’ve done lately.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

this looks at the years 2006 to 2008 and compares salary to post season success. the correlation seems to be that generally, spending more does increase your chances of success. however, in that light there are numerous examples of teams that buck the trend. the giants unsurprisingly are near the bottom. but does that prove sabean to be bad?

off this topic, but still somewhat related, looking at world series winners, there are still 8 teams who have never won and two teams who have never been.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

And if a new team won a championship every year, it would be 30 years between championships!

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes, that is a reality the Yankees would be most fearful of.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Never been:
Seattle Mariners
Texas Rangers
Expos/Nationals?

Never won:
Above
Colorado Rockies
San Diego Padres
Tampa Rays
Houston Astros
Milwaukee Brewers

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

/clicks link
Yes!

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

oops, i mis-stated “two” having never been. you’re right that it was three.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry

if you don’t realize that Sabean is a bad GM, there’s nothing I can tell you that will change your mind.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

i’m perfectly willing to have my mind changed if there is a comprehensive analysis, chart, or strong set of data. as a general rule though, i just don’t magically realize things. i’d just like some outside sources to refer to.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

type in "worst GMs in baseball" into google.

i guarantee you that no matter who makes the list, sabean is at the bottom.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

If he’s one of the worst, he’d be near the top.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

well whatever

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

proof?

surely we can find better proof of his adequacy than a google rankings search?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

How about the fact that his team hasn't made the playoffs in 7 fucking years!

How is that not enough proof? And in a bad division!

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

8 winning seasons, 5 losing seasons, 4 playoff appearances in 13 years.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

And you must remember, in over half of those seasons Sabean was blessed with one of the five best hitters in the history of the game. A hitter that he inherited from his predecessor. Yet the team still only made the play-offs four times.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know not everyone here thinks highly of Kent apart from being the guy who batted after Bonds, but IMO for 6 seasons, Sabean had two HOF dudes in his starting lineup.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

This.

Love Jeff Kent on the field, fuck that guy when he ain’t on it, though.

/TWSS

And, in my view, the problem during the Bonds/Kent years was the lack of pitching. If only we could combine eras…

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

/era ERA recombinant Hits DNA

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I always forget about Kent but you’re completely right. The guy is the power hitter the second-base position has ever seen. Ever. Four play-off appearances.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's a link that says Sabean is terrible

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-alnl-gap-a-gm-disparity

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here’s another one.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

that's a start

but does appear to be more “he’s bad, because we said it”. anything more in depth? any breakdown of history you can link to?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not off the top of my head

However, this line from the fangraphs article

The Worst: Oh boy… This was surprisingly (and depressingly) easy

makes it seem like this was a pretty universal opinion.

Also this line made me laugh

Brian Sabean… That I’m so impressed that he’s restrained himself from resigning Bengie Molina sort of says it all.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well a good chunk of that is the Zito contract

which I think was a McGowan decision that Sabean couldn’t nix.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Depends on how you want to evaluate his performance… value on free agent dollar spent? farm players to reach and produce for the mother club, etc.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

I don’t think Uribe is luck, the guy’s good. Maybe not this good, but he certainly earned the deal he got after what he did last season and there wasn’t really anything about him and his performance to indicate otherwise.

Huff for $3 million? Not a back-breaker by any stretch and I think Grant’s staunch belief about why Sabean signed him is probably the right answer, but the guy has a career .343 OBP which, for the Giants, is a godsend.

Burrell was a roll of the dice move, so I don’t think it should count for or against Sabean and the Posey thing is hardly luck. The guy was scouted, drafted and scouted by Sabean before his call-up. The Giants actually made a decision they thought would help the team (albeit one we all felt was made far too late in the season) and, wow, it did! I wouldn’t call that luck, but… due diligence. Tire kicking at it’s finest!

Brian Sabean gets credit for all offensive upgrades under $6 million. Or something.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Uribe WAS luck..

It was incredibly reasonable to have looked at what he did in 2009 as a fluke and that he’d reasonably regress.

Not only has he not regressed, he’s gotten better.

I’m sorry, but it was more reasonable to look at his whole 1,000 AB’s in the majors for predictive value, rather than his 350 AB’s or so from one season.

by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 21, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I give way more leeway to a 29 year old having a "fluke" season

than 32+ guys having their worst or best years. And a one-year $3.25 million deal isn’t going to kill the team.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sabean gets Uribe – Man he got so lucky there!!
Friedman gets Pena – Man Sabean you moron! Get off your hands!

You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.

by SeeingStars on Jun 21, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is actually a pretty good point

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

But where is Friedman’s Rowand or Zito? Where is his stupid trade?

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

He’s a better GM obviously. If we’re looking for faults, giving 10% of your payroll to Burrell (and then releasing) him counts I guess.

You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.

by SeeingStars on Jun 21, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh oops

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

but he’s made the World series already and turned a team that was a perennial laughingstock into on that scares the fucking YANKEES AND RED SOX. With a fraction of their money.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Burrell's contract worked out pretty bad

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

And even that could've been worse

Burrell was supposedly coveted by a lot of teams and the Rays got him for 2/16M. For comparison’s sake Milton Bradley got a 3/30M deal that year.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was making no comment about the overall quality of those two GMs

I was simply speaking of the incredible similarity of those two acquisitions and the relative evaluations of those two acquisitions from the MCC.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

The difference:

Pena was already pretty decent.

Uribe was not.

Also… Both were lucky.

So no. That wasn’t a good point if you’re specifically trying to paint that as my logic.

by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 21, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pena wasn't that good for a first baseman

He had shown nothing at all prior to going to TB. The only thing he had going for him was “former top prospect.”

Which is why going after Alex Gordon sometime soon would be a pretty decent move.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

My “let’s get Alex Gordon” fanshot was probably the most controversial thread I’ve ever started.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Alex Gordon & Brandon Wood are 2 guys I'd like to take fliers on

Hell, I actually think Edwin Encarnacion is a solid buy low candidate, now that he’s been DFA’d.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're right

in that it wasn’t going to kill the team.

I actually liked Uribe being resigned.

But I mean… Really.. He’s one of the best hitting shortstops in the game.
No one saw that coming.

by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 21, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree.

And so does the rest of the league, which is why he’s not getting paid like the best hitting shortstop in the league. Uribe’s agent(s) didn’t come at the Giants from that angle, either.

So, Sabean doesn’t get any credit for the Uribe deal because Uribe is too good?

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

He gets credit.

Just not as much credit as the hindsight brigade think he deserves.

by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 21, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

He deserves 10 credits

which I think gets him a plastic novelty comb.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

How many does he need for a new bowling shirt?

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

To think that we may not have signed him if it weren’t for Sanchez’s injury.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

If you look . . .

. . . at his record while a starting player, you will see a lot of awfully low BABIPs. If you look for years in which he both was a starting player and had a BABIP of, oh, say .290 or over, you get just 2004 and 2009. Now sometimes there are reasons why a given player has consisnetly low BABIPs, and I don’t know enough detail about his history to say, but I find the results st least suggestive of a guy who is actually pretty good when not hitting at’em balls. (Oh, and he’s nearly doubled his career walks rate this season.)

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think taking low-cost gambles is a good move. But the performances from Uribe and Huff so far are well beyond reasonable expectations. There is an element of luck to that. Burrell is a nice pick-up because he costs the league minimum, but I’d like to see Schierholtz or Bowker playing regularly right now. And those have to be compared to the other free agent pick-ups, such as Rowand and Molina, who are performing perhaps a little worse than one would expect.

If a GM uses low-risk moves to try to find a nice final piece of a lineup, that’s a good process, and I approve. When a GM has to rely on low-risk moves striking gold to build a decent offense, that’s not a good process.

And Posey should be catching. Having him up is good. Having him play first base is stupid. I blame Sabean for that scenario.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Burrell is a nice pick-up because he costs the league minimum, but I’d like to see Schierholtz or Bowker playing regularly right now

And thus we reach the biggest point as to why I don’t want to give Sabean credit for any of this shit: it keeps the young players from playing, so next year we’ll be in the same boat. We STILL won’t know what they can do.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

When will we know?

How much playing time do you believe they need to be able to determine their true value?

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

how about

“more than 100 PAs”? Which they never even get. Nate has 126 this year, and they were scattered all over the place. He and Bowker should just be left in the outfield for an extended period of time (longer than 2 fucking weeks) to see what they can do.

You can’t seriously think that 126 ABs and 82 ABs respectively are enough to show if Nate and Bowker are good or not. Come on.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can’t seriously consider the numbers you just presented until you presented them, so, no, obviously I am not seriously thinking about those plate appearances being enough to show if Nate and Bowker are good.

Considering it, though, I think Bowker’s been the one who got screwed more… Schierholtz plays good D, but I think it’s Bowker who hasn’t been allowed to play through struggles.

Since Sabean built a very shoddy offense, the Giants don’t really have the luxury of dealing with growing pains. That’s another ding. So, too, is the slavish devotion to 32+ year old vets.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry

I thought you knew their AB numbers were criminally low. I didn’t know the exact figures but I knew they were stupid.

An outfield of Bowker/Torres/Nate with Huff at first and Posey catching would not be worse than the offense we have now. Maybe let Burrell play like twice a week or something. Or just not sign him.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well and it’s not just that. The pressure these guys feel must be ridiculous. If I don’t hit/field/run the bases well, on this, the first chance I’ve gotten to play in 15 years… I may not get to play for another 15 years.

Then you play careful, and when you play careful you make mistakes. and you’ve suddenly become a self fulfilling prophesy.

When I played soccer I would tell the coach to put me in for either the whole first half or the whole second half. I wanted to play 45 minutes straight through, not 10 here, 5 there, 15 here. It was tough for me to get into the rhythm of the game when I felt like a yo-yo.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

absolutely

see: Lewis, Fred in toronto. Is he the greatest ever? No, but he’s better than he was here because he’s actually, you know, playing.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

No, he's not.

The composition of his numbers is different—such as half the walks—but overall his value is much the same as it was here. Including his bumper-pool outfielding.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

But Fred Lewis actually played fairly consitently

That’s the most irksome thing about the Fred Lewis saga.

He actually got the playing time that I wished for Bowker or Schierholtz.

He then showed himself to be a valuable player. He was then DFA’d.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fixed

He then showed himself to be a valuable player. He dropped a bunch of routine fly balls. He was then DFA’d.

by GameSix on Jun 21, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Define "a bunch"

Really, though, I don’t want to have this conversation again.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Define "a bunch"

Sunday, for instance. Those other ones. That one, from that one time. I’m not saying that FLew can’t justify his existence with his bat. Because he did, and he does.

My point is that the Giants should be able to find a player with his offensive talents that doesn’t look like me circa 2nd grade in the outfield. Right guys? Guys?

by GameSix on Jun 21, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Again:

Pat Burrell doesn’t come within 3 feet of that ball.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

A dropped fly ball is just an error. It’s not a lot different from an infielder blowing a routine ground ball. It may give up an extra base, which isn’t small beans, but it’s very easy to overstate these things.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

meh

What’s the problem? He was being judged on OPS (Obnoxious Plays…Suck?).

by GameSix on Jun 21, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think there is a difference. The type of dropped balls that Lewis (and Velez) have made cannot be compared to an infielder making an error on a ground ball. At the MLB level those balls must be caught 100% of the time.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Routine ground balls should be fielded cleanly 100% of the time.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

The only appreciable difference is the extra base given up. And that is a big deal. But the perception that dropped routine fly balls are sins while any other error, no matter how routine, is excusable, is what bothers me about the “Lewis droppes ballz” things.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Lewis droppes ballz"

It has to be demoralizing for a pitcher to induce a pop up, only to see offensive superstar Fred Lewis complete w/awesome shades drop the chalupa. That’s not “perception,” that’s reality. Maybe it’s analogous to a missed layup in basketball. Sure, it’s just a missed shot, but it’s painful to watch. Especially if it happens again. And again…and again…

I don’t think that “any other error” is excusable, either.

by GameSix on Jun 21, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not saying anybody said “other errors are excusable”. I worded that poorly. I was just talking about the reactions to Lewis dropped flies as opposed to the reactions to any other error.

What I mean is that when Lewis dropped a ball it was “OH GOD WHY WHAT IN THE WORLD IS WRONG WITH EVERYTHING THIS GUY SUCKS HE’S WORTHLESS HE SHOULDN’T EVEN PLAY IN KOREA HE’S BAD FUCK I HATE THE WORLD SO MUCH” and when any other error whatsoever (Velez excluded) happened, the hairpulling was significantly more subdued.

i agree that it’s painful to watch, but I just think it got exaggerated to a ridiculous level.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

HE SHOULDN’T EVEN PLAY IN KOREA

lol cold

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I suppose . . .

. . . that it’s because he made so many so regularly. But another argument, which i sorta like, is that they were mostly each quite memorable for the degree of their doofusivity (I originally typed "doofusishness" but had second thoughts). I mean, it was a comedy act out there.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I still think that’s an exaggeration.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Geez.

How many in just that last 3-game series?

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Didn’t see all the games, but I did see one drop. Coincidentally, he’s listed with one error on the year. Did he actually drop easy fly balls that were not recorded as errors?

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

there was a leaping attempt at the wall that he could have had that dropped. It wasn’t easy enough to be an error and many less athletic guys wouldn’t have gotten to that ball but it also wasn’t that hard of a catch.

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I, for one, . . .

. . . do not recall the “any other error is excusable” part of the thing.

Is anyone here old enough to remember a brief-time Giant named Chris Smith? He is the only guy I have ever seen in the outfield who looked worse than FLewis. I rmember well arguing, at length, with FRobby about giving Smith a chance at 1B, because he had a terrific bat (medium power, absurdly high OBP). They tried him there briefly, and as best I recall he did not embarrass the team or himself, but they cut him anayway, after which he went on, as best I recall, to Japan, probably as a DH. Even Buford was with me on that one, but it was not to be.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

See above for my clarification on the “any other error is excusable” part. I really just meant that, judging by people’s reactions alone, when Lewis dropped a ball he was the worst player in the history of the game and wasn’t worth the stuffing in the ball he dropped, but when any other routine play was botched by any other player, it was just a thing that happens sometimes.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Alex Sanchez was the worst Giants fielder I’ve seen, especially considering how fast he was.

by kingofthacove on Jun 21, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

We have to agree to disagree. I would assume you would at least admit that there is a huge difference in the degree of difficulty between the two, right? The proof is that I could put your average Sunday playing softball outfielder in the outfield and he’ll catch those balls almost every time, while the same is not true of what is considered a “routine” MLB ground ball.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it would be pretty entertaining to test that theory.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree that would be interesting to watch

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually the groundballs may be easier since a baseball field has a larger, manicured infield.

Also, tracking flyballs hit with baseballs is completely different than tracking them hit with softballs.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why is a ground ball and a fly ball different?

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

In my opinion, it is much harder to field a ground ball cleanly than to catch a routine ball in the outfield.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting

That’s not my experience. I played both infield and outfield. They were about the same for me.

Incidentally (and not instructive to this discussion, really) my daughter, who is eight, is much better at fielding grounders than fly balls.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

statistically

grounders go for hits more often than fly balls (but extra bases obviously less often).

TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development

by zenbitz on Jun 21, 2010 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

But how is that instructive?

The issue is fielding routine plays, is it not? We should be worried about errors.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

This whole thread, I been subconsciously transposing bondslegend’s name to the bottom of posts that are replying to him. Several times I caught myself going, “What heck is up with bondslegend? This is WEIRD. These replies are SO inconsistent!”

I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?

by Ott on Jun 21, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, you could argue that “better” really means providing more value (ie, runs or wins) and he’s certainly doing that in Toronto because he is playing more and more regularly than he was ever allowed to here.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I told him I’d play better if my 45 minute allotment of playing time was all at once, not in bits and chunks.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think at least a consistent half season of starting. Honestly, I’d prefer a full season, which the Giants could have easily had with Schierholtz by now.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nate has never had more than 300 ABs in a season!

THAT IS FUCKING RETARDED

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

285 ABs, which is what I was saying

and those 308 PAs were spread out over an entire season. I’d like to know how many of those were in the same month. It’s difficult to play well when you’re not playing on a consistent basis.

Also, 300 PAs is barely a half season’s worth, so the sample is wayy too small anyways.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

not really

All of his value is in his defense. His bat is not very good. I don’t see the infatuation with him honestly. I wouldn’t mind Bowker getting a chance since he apparently learned how to walk but Schierholtz isn’t very good offensively, and his minor league track record isn’t favoring him.

by superk1ng on Jun 21, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ok

so you’d rather see Molina in the lineup than Nate? Or maybe Rowand? Because that’s what it comes down to.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, Rowand’s bat with the Giants has been almost identical to Nate’s. Nate sports an 88 OPS+ with the Giants, and Rowand sports an 89 OPS+. Yet the older and more expensive guy has nearly 1,000 more at bats than the younger, less expensive, virtually identical guy.

It’s not really an infatuation thing with Nate. It’s a “there’s a very good chance that he’s better than our current starter” thing.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

But Rowand is not currently starting

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

And I haven’t been hearing anybody whining about Torres taking playing time from Nate. Nobody seems to want Schierholtz at the expense of Torres. It seems to me that the “WE WANT NATE” faction always been relative to the current starters.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

this

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well yeah, I want Nate to play more but I don’t see him as a center fielder, so Torres playing doesn’t bother me. Nate just seems a corner outfielder to me so when Huff and Co. are starting in the OF over Nate, yeah then I want to gouge my eyes out.

Botchy just seems a little slow, one of life’s short bus riders. We were saying for WEEKS that Torres should bat leadoff, it took botchy awhile to come to the same conclusion. We’ve been saying for WEEKS that a major problem could be solved if Posey was catching, Huff was at first and Nate could play in the outfield.

So maybe eventually botchy will catch on?

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a very good fielder with a great arm, but I’m just not certain he’s the superstar defender everyone makes him out to be.

He made a really bad dive on a ball in one of the last games he started and also some uncharacteristic poor throws. Like I said, he’s very good, just not the superstar I think some would like him to be.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's also just 26.

He’s got the raw materials, defensively. There’s still time for him to become that kind of defensive wiz. Offense… who knows? If Andres Torres can do it after 30, it’s not impossible to think that Nate could. Yes, yes, not every player is the same.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

The last game he started I think it was either 1 of 2 things.

1) His shoulder is still bothering him and he’s playing through it because he feels thats what he needs to do to attempt to stay in the lineup which if this is the case he should go on the DL and do some rehab assignments.

2) He may have been a little rusty. Considering he only enters the game usually from the 8th or maybe even the 7th inning on where its possible he doesn’t have to make plays as often as he did when he started and is just standing around out there.

Either way his defense that day was very uncharacteristic of him because when I’ve seen him play like in the beginning of the season and such he had such pinpoint control of his throws and pretty much had a laser. His arm is strong and I know he isn’t perfect but if his throws would miss, they wouldn’t miss by much.

01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey

Wave them home Tim Flannery, wave them home.

by sanfrankid on Jun 21, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you're over-simplifying the lack of playing time for Nate and Bowker

Obviously, they haven’t had tons of ABs, BUT I can’t honestly think that’s the only thing the Giants (or any other teams) look at when evaluating a player.

I’ve never worked for a big-league team, but I’ve coached a ton of youth baseball and I’m ALWAYS watching the kids hit, whether it’s in the cage, at BP, at practice or in practice games. A big-league team has tons more people and expertise to draw on when evaluting a player, not to mention tons more sample of non-big leage ABs.

I would think all eyes are on the kids at all times.

Maybe Schierholtz swings at breaking balls that are going to hit him all the time in BP. Maybe Lewis can’t play catch without dropping balls. Maybe Bowker’s sensational minor league season last year was tempered by something like an analysis of the type of pitchers he was able to hit.

With Bowker and Nate, I’ve yet to see consistent good ABs where they look like they control the strike zone and identify pitches well. I’m not ready to give up on them, but I’m not ready to sit a guy like Huff or Burrell just to find out if they’re big league starters or not…not while we’re in contention anyway.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

You don't have to sit Huff

and yes, I’m sure the Giants’ staff is full of guys who can accurately evaluate hitters. That would explain why the offense has been so consistently dominant these past few years.

Like I said, Bowker/Torres/Nate in the OF, Huff at first and Posey catching. You’re not sitting any good players (Burrell? Really? He’s doing pretty well, but he’s not a long term answer and you’re costing yourself down the road if you’re sitting a young player for his sake), and you’re setting yourself up well for the future.

If you never let the young kids play, choosing instead to let old guys who won’t be here next year take their place, then you’re never going to improve down the road.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I like this, but it is never going to happen. That said, I never thought the Rowand would get benched, even if it is temporary (he’ll be starting tomorrow in Houston for sure).

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

I know it's never going to happen

because Sabean is not a good GM. That’s why it’s never going to happen.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

yes, but he is also going to be the GM for a long time, so we should probably get used to it

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I will never get used to shittyness

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

I did not say that you have to like it, you just have to deal with it. Have you read Victor Frankl’s “Man’s Search for Meaning?” If not, I suggest you do.

By the way, is it shittiness or shittyness? Just asking…

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

But isn’t the problem that once you are in a race it becomes much more difficult to go with a struggling and as yet to be proven young player?

Burrell is providing some power threat in the line-up now. Unlike many of our remaining young outfielders on the bench he also knows how to work a count and take a walk. I’m not saying he is a long term solution, but as long as the Giants are still in the thick of the race in the NL West, I think he is a better option than the yung-uns.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Burrell was unproven when he started

but he got the automatic go-ahead because he “wasn’t young”. That’s the only reason. He had been fucking awful all year before he got here.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Still, logically, you’re asking for a switchy/lefty lineup to not play a potentially powerful right-handed bat.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

OK

well maybe you play Burrell over Bowker. But Nate should be playing if for no other reason than he’s awesome on defense. You play him at the expense of Molina. That makes your team better in every possible way.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Fuck this team

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

You fuck yours...

…and I’ll fuck mine.

Oh, just a little NSFW

whatever W is.
I forgot.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

The best lineup I can envision right now

Exact order not as important as the fact that Molina, Renteria, and Rowand are gone.

Torres CF
Sanchez 2B
Sandoval 3B
Huff 1B
Burrell LF
Uribe SS
Posey C
Schierholz RF

Bowker as 4th OF, Whiteside as backup catcher, Renteria as utility IF. Trade or DFA Molina and Rowand.

To me, this lineup maximizes our offensive and defensive potential.

"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.

by hairball on Jun 21, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

/thumbs up

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm bondslegend, and I approve this lineup

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I approve

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

/subscribes to newsletter

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm sure we all feel this way

But how likely is it? Bengie’s going to play. And we’re paying a lot of money to Rowand and Rent if they’re going to be 4th OF and Utility infielder.

Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!

by Giantsfan4life on Jun 21, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let me introduce you to SUNK COST

The idea being that we’re paying a lot of money to Rowand and Rent NO MATTER WHAT (this being the beauty of guaranteed money), and since we’ve got replacement parts for both that are higher quality, we should go with the higher quality, since we’re not out any additional cash either way, and higher quality increases the odds of winning.

With Rowand, I say DFA or trade because we’ve got a plethora of higher quality OF (Torres, Burrell, Schierholz, Bowker). With Renteria, I say utility IF because we don’t have that many IF spare parts, but Uribe is clearly better.

Regarding “Bengie’s going to play”, it DOESN’T NEED TO BE THAT WAY. God did not drop a tablet on Sabean that dictated this.

"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.

by hairball on Jun 21, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, but . . .

. . . Sabean dropped a tablet on Bochy that said this. See the discussions elsewhere on the poisonous incentive terms in Molina’s contract. Bochy is not going to take bread out of the mouth of a poor, starving old man (Molina) by holding him back from getting his full quota of incentives, which require that Molina start at catcher in 115 games. With Whitside booked for 32 starts, that leaves 15 starts all season for anyone other than Bengie.

Renteria can and should be a valuable part of a rotating infield combo, playing 4 days out of 6, with Sanchez ditto, and Uribe playing 5 days out of 6 (with one of those at 3B to give Panda 1 in 6 off as a rest day).

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL Tablet

THOU SHALT PLAY FAT

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Nate is swinging in full health, it's OK

but he’s not healthy, so what’s the use?

The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent

by hokysmksbw on Jun 21, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

can't agree with Pablo 3rd

he turns OBP into GiDP. He’s not hitting that well otherwise either. Huff should hit third. Pablo’s a no 6 hitter in this lineup.

I like my beer cold ... my TV loud ... and my romosexuals flaming.--Homer Simpson

by nogooddeed on Jun 21, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

o_0

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ding ding ding

When your team is consistently playing two or three guys that have no business (or little, in Molina’s case) being in an MLB lineup, your GM is not good at his job.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

GRM is now telling others what they believe

I think you are officially out of control, GRM.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

No argument on Molina vs. Bowker

But you’re saying play Nate over Burrell and I’m not buying it until Burrell shows us that Tampa wasn’t an outlier.

I had this same argument with Missing Barry. (What is it with you BLB user-name guy and Burrell? I’d think you wouldn’t mind a big bat in LF who changes the complexion of the lineup, even if it means giving up some defnse.)

Burrell might have stunk in TB, but think of his career as a case of wine:

  • The first nine bottles all tasted good
  • You discover the 10th bottle is corked and no good
  • You’re given a taste of the 11th bottle for free and it turns out it’s as good as the first nine, even better than you remember

At this point, you at least say I’m going to keep drinking this 11th bottle, until someone proves it’s bad, not go throw it out just to find out what the unproven wine on the shelf tastes like.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Plus, at Tampa, he was a DH

And some guys just can’t handle DHing. Some guys hit better when they’re also playing the field.

Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!

by Giantsfan4life on Jun 21, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bingo.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

meh.

I am not intrested in railing against Burrell. But is should be note his Giants P.A’s have come Vs the Priates, Reds & O’s with the A’s and Jays being the two teams he have faced that had decent pitching. Small Sample Size war cry asaide all he has realy proven is that in 2010 is not yet Todd Linden.

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is just not true

Burrell has proved that he can hit at the major league level. Unfortunately, neither Nate nor Bowker has.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that this isn’t just a SSS last hurrah for Burrell, it could be, but it doesn’t look like it to me.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

it's also SSS for both nate and bowker

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm a guy who believes in stats plus what my eyes tell me

I don’t think Nate and Bowker have shown the ability to have the kind of ABs Burrell has and the mlb stats, even if they’re sss, don’t make me think otherwise.

Believe me, it’s not what I’m wishing for. I absolutely wish Bowker and Nate could hit better. They’re younger, play better D and are under control, so I’d love for them to be long-term solutions. Maybe they are, but I don’t want to take Burrell’s bat out of the lineup right now to find out.

My biggest beef was that this should have been determined last year. Bochy stayed with Winn far too ling.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

This

Sums up my feelings as well.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'll concede that Burrell has (so far) been worth a starting spot

but putting Nate in RF at the expense of Molina (Posey to C, Huff to 1B) in no way makes the team worse. It only improves it.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I too have been calling for Molina's head

So we’re in agreement there.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

And . . .

. . . fucking great all his career before that. “SSS” seems to have a very selective meaning around here.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, he wasn’t. He had a great bat, and a really, really un-great glove, which made him worth an average of $9 mil a year as a Phillie. Decent.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really wish that people would stop taking fangraphs values as gospel.

There is just no way that those defensive values accurately reflect value.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

"Quiet you, I'm starting a meme." - Me

Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.

by DrStankus on Jun 21, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Burrel is universally known as a terrible fielder, though.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

So far . . .

. . . in limited eyeballing, it’s because he’s slow, period. He looks like he can handle whatever he can get to, and even knows the difference. SSS, but so it looks.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s not like the strawhats like Burrell, either!

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have no problem with Burrell

but someone (I don’t remember who) made a good point that the people who run this team are fully willing to let veterans play full time from the second they’re acquired, but will NOT let young players play full time unless they’re buster posey.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who's playing time has started to slip.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nate and bowker wave and say hi

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hi guys,

We miss you.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

The addition of Burrell and Posey make it virtually impossible to play Schierholtz or Bowker

However, these are two recent additions. The fantastic play of Torres is also a recent thing. The lack of playing time for those two is not a recent thing.

This is a problem for a long time. I thought it might have been going away when the Giants seemed to stick with Bowker for an extended period of time. That was an isolated incident, I guess.

Goofus, we have different views on Bowker’s at bats. You see a guy that doesn’t control the zone. I saw a guy who took some very nasty pitches and who looked like he was up there trying to work the count.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

No it doesn't

Huff to 1b, Posey to C, Nate in RF. That’s not impossible. That makes perfect sense

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I was speaking about in this organization as it is currently run

I am hoping that the benching (which is probably temporary) of Rowand is precursor to good changes. But I’m not setting my heart on it.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

This makes me so angry

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

When a GM has to rely on low-risk moves striking gold to build a decent offense, that’s not a good process.

That’s the heart of the matter. The results might be positive so far this season, but they don’t vindicate all the bad moves that Sabean has made w/r/t building an offense over the past five years.

Giants Baseball: TORTURE

by Kitspool on Jun 21, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

But unless I’m reading this wrong, Grant never says anything about giving Sabean a pass. This post is just to say give Sabean credit where credit is due.

Do all his bad moves outweigh the good ones? Of course. However, some of the posters can’t even acknowledge him doing any of the latter.

You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.

by SeeingStars on Jun 21, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

That’s true. Sabean should get some credit. He deserves credit (what credit is there) for Huff, Uribe and Torres. He definitely should get credit for the pitching.

I think this comment was in response to someone saying that Huff/Uribe vindicate Sabean as a GM.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Please don’t assume this was me saying that.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not assuming it about anyone. I just think it’s one vantage point about Sabean this season. I think a good question is how much credit he deserves for Huff/Uribe.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

None at all
or
Some

are pretty much the only options I can see.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just don't buy into that notion

He shouldn’t have a job. So what if he doesn’t do EVERY SINGLE THING wrong? So what, because he’s not completely inept (he’s just mostly inept), we should find the areas he hasn’t totally fucked up and give him credit for it? No thanks.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, if you’re evaluating someone’s actions, isn’t that what you’re supposed to do? You can still give him credit for the positive things and still judge him to be grossly incompetent.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guess

it just strikes me as a useless exercise. The guy is a terrible GM, end of story.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rosterbation, criticism, anguish, etc.
I guess it just strikes me as a useless exercise.

MCC folds quietly into the abyss

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guess

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

vic made a pretty good point

If you want to look at it that way, this entire site is a useless exercise.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

Hence why I said “If you want to look at it that way.”

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

thehavenot is agreeing.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

This gets antique.

The performances from Uribe and Huff so far are well beyond reasonable expectations.

Huff’s career stats, pro-rated to his actual 2010 PAs show:

                       AB 	 H 	2B     3B       HR      BB     SF      SH      HBP      SO 	 PA
Huff, Aubrey 2010: 	227 	69 	16 	2 	11 	34 	4 	0 	3 	26 	268
Huff, Aubrey proj: 	242 	69 	15 	1 	10 	22 	2 	0 	2 	35 	268

One extra double, one extra triple (“triples alley”), one extra HR, 12 extra walks, nine fewer SOs.

Note that the team as a whole has 48 extra walks, so perhaps we can give BamBam some credit there. Otherwise, everything looks very much as expected from his career. So what is this “far beyond” stuff? (Uribe was discussed upthread: his everyday seasons with roughly normal BABIPs look a lot like his current line.) What those men are “far beyond” is negativity from folk who have apparently not looked at the record.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh wow. Glad to see numbers to back up an opinion I share.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is one of those posts that cause me to suspect you’re just yanking our chains à la hokysmokesbbq. You can’t seriously be arguing that because the sample is still small and thus the raw numbers are fairly close together, Aubrey Huff is not outperforming expectations, can you?

Huff’s career OBP is .343. His career high is .367. This year, at the age of 33, his OBP is .399.

Huff’s career slugging is .474. This year, it’s .550.

By wOBA, Huff is currently the ninth-best hitter in baseball, well ahead of the likes of Ryan Braun, Adrian Gonzalez, Albert Pujols, and Prince Fielder.

If Huff is not dramatically exceeding expectations, it’s literally impossible for a baseball player to do so.

by Evan on Jun 21, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

He addresses the uptick in OBP by saying, essentially “Bam Bam probably fixed them, which is totally precedented and normal.”

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not quite.

He addresses the uptick in walks by noting that it is a point shared by quite a few people on one team in one season, and thus stands fair to have an explanation external to the individual players, who seem unlikely to all have notably improved their strike-zone judgement spontaneously yet randomly.

You can’t seriously be arguing that because the sample is still small and thus the raw numbers are fairly close together, Aubrey Huff is not outperforming expectations, can you? Say wha’? If the numbers are, as you concede, “close together” (I guess as compared to close apart), then how do we detect this “overperforming of expectations”? Mystic vibrations? The numbers exactly and literally are the performance and the expectations: somehow they are close yet differ notably. Wanna ’splain that last a little more fully?

 


Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

The point of contention here is not the source of the uptick, it is whether or not it could have been reasonably expected. I don’t think that expecting a bunch of entrenched veterans to drastically increase their BB% at the same time was reasonable at the beginning of the season.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

But . . .

. . . even without that uptick in walks, he;d still be a pretty decent offensive force. Not human dynamite, but nothing one need hold one’s nose over.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your definition of “pretty decent” is below average.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your definition of ‘below average’ is pretty decent.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your decent definition of ‘below’ is averagely pretty.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

You’re definition is average, but below you’re pretty decent.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Win!

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mmm, okay, you are just yanking our chains. Or maybe just mine. I can no more believe that you are unfamiliar with percentages and ratio stats than I can believe that you don’t know what a rookie is.

by Evan on Jun 21, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

You miss a point . . .

. . . that I have tried to make here before. We forget how nice measuring is in baseball. The difference between a .260 hitter and a .300 hitter, even as everyday players, is maybe a hit a week. A hit a week. How many ball games are swung by getting an extra hit a week? But we prize .300 hitters over .260 hitters, ceteris paribus.

If you are going to claim that Huff is “outperforming expectations”, you need to show something quite substantially bigger than the current differences between his expected and actual stat lines. Or have you now suddenly boarded the good ship SSS, from whose poop deck (it’s not what you think) you declaim that one or two swings of the bat in 67 games is a dramatic difference?

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can argue that the sample size is still small enough that Huff’s season is within the realm of normal fluctuation given the abilities he has established over the years, and I’d probably agree with you; but you cannot argue that he is not doing much, much better than expected, because he simply is. He’s as much above his career line as Pablo Sandoval is below his, and I don’t think you’ll find anyone to nod placidly and say that they’re getting exactly what they were expecting from Sandoval this season.

A hit a week is a big deal, btw.

by Evan on Jun 21, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is just not so.

Look at Sandoval’s actuals vs expected lines:

                         AB   H  2B 3B HR BB SF SH HBP SO  PA
Sandoval, Pablo 2010: 	261  73  18  2  6   25  3  0  1  34  290
Sandoval, Pablo proj: 	263  84  19  2  9   22  3  0  2  35  290

(Screw this hopless formatting—align ’em yourself.)

Now that—11 hits under—is a substantial difference—unlike Huff’s lines elsethread.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Huff, using the current numbers (yours seem to be a day or two out of date), has three fewer singles, one more double, one more triple, two more homers, and thirteen more walks than his career line would suggest. That’s a total of 25 bases more than he would usually have gained at this point in the season.

Sandoval has tallied seven fewer singles, one fewer double, three fewer home runs, and three more walks than his career line. That’s a total of 24 bases.

(Of course counting bases is a clunky way of doing this, but you seem unwilling to use rate stats. wOBA or any other run estimator will give you similar results.)

Next?

by Evan on Jun 21, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ugh.

Yes, they are out of date, and that pisses me. The place I scrape my raw data from is not always reliable. I need more data than appears on any one page, so I need to load several for each full team line; one of the cross-checks the automated software does is compare games played on each source page, and if they don’t all agree, that day’s update is cancelled. That happens when they update some pages but not others, or at least not by the time I download (which is 7:45 am Eastern Time). Usually it’s ok, but sometimes it’s nightmarish—two or three days can go by without an update. I am seriously thinking of switching to another source, but each time I think that I contemplate the work involved in writing a whole new set of PHP scripts for the scraping; this is a minor hobby, and life is only so long, and that effort would be major.

Anyway: a day or two shouldn’t make any difference to a discussion of season-to-date, and anyway most of these conclusions were being drawn before the last day or two. So Huff has exactly the expected number of hits for his playing time, and half a dozen extra bases; Sandoval is 11 hits under expectation, including a double and 3 home runs. Can we really say that those differences are of the same general order of magnitude?

But, if you want it in other terms, despite the fact that a single hit or extra base can make a discrepantly large swing in rate stats (which is why we try to look at such things on a seasonal or longer basis), Huff’s batting average is about 5% high, while Sandoval’s is about 12% low (and it’s worse than that in some ways, since the “career” stats I use include the current season-to-date).

Another question to ask is, given about 40% of one season, how much sheer chance deviation do we expect in results? How near or far do results have to be to be “expected” or “extraordinary”? That is why, till we approach season’s end, I think it wiser to look at count than at rate stats for considerations of “expected”: a single hit is about 4 points on the BA at this stage—it takes very few discrete events to make rate counts shift a lot, yet very few remains just that—“very few”.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would like to remind you two

That Huff’s career really is a career; Sandoval’s “career”, prior to this season, was 7 months.

We can safely say that Huff’s career line really does represent his true talent level, or something very close to it, and therefore we can derive from it a relatively reliable “expected” line. The same is not true for Sandoval, at least not to the same extent.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

i'm not above admitting

that i saw this line on sfgate.com and did a second take

Bruce Bochy: Leave him alone, he's the Manager Man and his BORK is much worse than his bite.

by zodiac_chiller on Jun 21, 2010 10:30 AM PDT reply actions  

Bork has grown weary of Kag-y’s antics.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

You should see how he writes the Justice order. Changes daily.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

van der sLOLoot

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

LoL yeah, I did the same thing.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hey, if they blew vuvuzuelas into your ear for a week you'd admit to plenty.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

That old wind-bag is still alive?

That’s like saying Pete Rose opposes inducting Barry Bonds into the HOF

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Aubrey Huff is more apple pie than pecan.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 10:39 AM PDT reply actions  

Defense.

Aubrey Huff is being paid 3 million this year. So far he’s been worth 10.

Juan Uribe is being paid 3.25 million this year. So far he’s been worth 7.7 or so.

Andres Torres is being paid .425 million this year. So far he’s been worth 11 million.

That, right there, is roughly 20 million dollars in Sabean cheapy value. That more or less compensates for a year of Rowand, Molina, and DeRosa. And if we get any production out of Burrell for league minimum, that’s added value.

Not saying Sabean is good. But he’s at least average. And that’s much better than he’s really ever given credit for, at least around here.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 10:44 AM PDT reply actions  

He's at best average...

which, with a top-10 payroll, does not put the Giants in the catbird seat.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

he is not average because 3 signings weren't total disasters

he is a terrible GM

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t rank Sabean as average. I think some questionable signings have worked out well so far. And it’s hard to praise those when going cheap was necessary because of other bad signings.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ummmm

The five highest-paid position players:
Aaron Rowand: $12M
Edgar Renteria: $9M
Mark DeRosa: $6M
Freddy Sanchez: $6M
Bengie Molina: $4.5M
Total: $37.5M

Wouldn’t an average GM NOT spend ~40% of their payroll on crappy/injured players?

by jemaine on Jun 21, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

this

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Renteria is a positive-value player this year at least

And Freddy has already been worth a lot, and if he keeps playing well he’ll have been worth his contract.

Bengie and Rowand were mistakes. DeRosa was a bad break (lol!).

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

IF Renteria and Sanchez stay healthy

AND they maintain their level of performance, they will justify their contracts.

If you think that will happen, I’ll be happy to take your bet.

by jemaine on Jun 21, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Let's have a little chat . . .

. . . in late September. Mind FSanchez ain’t gonna hit no .333 for the year, but both those men ought to end up somewhere around reasonable expectations for them from their overall career numbers.

(You can keep track of exactly how any Giants player is doing relative to his career right here.)

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

NO DEROSA WAS NOT A FUCKING BAD BREAK

They knew he was injured when they signed him, they were just too fucking stupid to know how bad it was. Don’t let their bullshit fool you.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ok how about Randy Johnson? We were overwhelmingly in favor of the signing, but in the end he pitched his age while costing a nice chunk of money. Unlucky or bad signing?

You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.

by SeeingStars on Jun 21, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

1 year- fifth starter… cost was relatively low

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

- splutter -

EIGHT MILLION DOLLARS IS RELATIVELY LOW?

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

welcome to 2010!

It isn’t. That wasn’t a very good singing. But we’ll never know how much he helped sanchez…there’s a good chance he made him a better pitcher.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

That WAS Johnson's beef with the Blanks.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wait a tick
But we’ll never know how much he helped sanchez…there’s a good chance he made him a better pitcher.

That sounds an awful lot like you’re justifying a signing because of “intangibles”. I thought that’s not allowed here. :-)

If we’re going to play that card, I’m going to start talking about Sanchez and Burrell and everything he’s bringing to the team that doesn’t show up in the box score.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Or how much Rowand's gritty veteran leadership

has been guiding the team to victories while he has been struggling at the plate… :)

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't mind Sanchez or Burrell

The thing I don’t like about Sanchez is the way they went about getting him

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why is that important?

Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG

by Useful_Idiot on Jun 21, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Uhh Ok

so what exactly is your point? A fifth starter or a guy who was heralded as the offense’s savior and someone who was “versitlified”. Almost the same thing.

There was no risk with RJ. There was a pretty big risk with Derosa, it’s just been negated by Torres turning into Ricky Henderson and Uribe turning into hanely ramirez

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

You're creating enough strawmen to feed a herd of cattle

No one said DeRosa was going to be an offensive savior. No one. And he’s only being paid 4 million more than RJ was, and he’d been very productive in the recent past.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

+1

You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.

by SeeingStars on Jun 21, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I seem to remember a lot of talk about how much he was going to help the offense

I could be wrong though.

Either way, they knew he had a wrist injury when they gave him 6 million dollars a year for 2 years. And they didn’t know how bad it was. So now they’ve given him 6 million dollars and he won’t play again this season. That is not a bad fucking break, that is being fucking retarded.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You're right

DeRosa has been a bad signing. Of course he has.

But the signing off Huff has been more good than DeRosa’s signing was bad.

That’s all I’m saying.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Except in terms of the money spent,

which could almost a separate argument altogether. But, I agree with you.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

yes

but as Grant said, I’d bet you any money he signed Huff for the exact wrong reasons. I’m glad it worked out this time, but it probably won’t the next 20 times.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can't defend his reasoning

Because I don’t know it. All I can judge are the results, which, so far this season, have been pretty darn good.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and that's fine

but that won’t help us next year when he either gives Huff too much money or signs someone on the same reasoning that turns out to be terrible.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

So Huffy’s got a one year $3million deal. Where it all has the potential to go horribly wrong is this offseason when he’s re-signed for 5 years $50 million

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

We'll see what happens

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Johnson was unlucky. Derosa was coming off a bad wrist injury. Him getting hurt was definitely foreseeable, possibly even likely.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

How unlucky was Johnson?

He was 45 years old and fairly brittle

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, an old pitcher with a bad back…who would have guessed he wouldn’t make it through a whole season.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Like I said above, dying playing Russian Roulette is not unlucky. It is stupid

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

He got #300 as a Giant, made national headlines in the orange and black, mentored a young head case, and sold a raft of tickets… I think they got what they wanted out of him.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’d really like to see proof of this oft repeated “sold a raft of tickets”.

Is there really data supporting this or is it just some conventional wisdom?

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

He won #299 in SF on 5/27/09. His next start was @ Washington where he won #300. So yeah, I kind of agree that the big ticket boom might never had happened.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

But it continues to be used as a justification for why it was a good signing and I’ve never seen any proof of it.

Now, the Randy Johnson 300 game winner bobble-head game, well I need no convincing at all that it would fill up the stadium :)

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t know that there’s a way to say ‘x number of tickets in excess of the expected gate were sold in Randy’s starts’. I know my own experience is that there was lively interest amongst my acquaintances in attending his games that year (which is poor evidence admittedly). I suspect it’s unquantifiable – the free PR involved with that sort of notable pursuit is the reward as much as the tickets directly sold at his starts – and I don’t know how to put a dollar amount on that PR.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s probably obvious given how great he was, but the Giants were always interested in RJ. Back in ‘04, they tried to get him from Arizona, but the DBacks wanted Merkin or Cain in return and Sabean couldn’t pull the trigger.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Were they looking for Merkin Valdez or just any old merkin?

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why would you want any old merkin when you could have Merkin “Heat” Valdez?

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe his carpet doesn’t match your drapes?

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Merkin’s merkin makin’ drapes?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Man, we’ve fallen on hard times without Merkin, Johnson and Bocock.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well they didn’t perform when faced with stiff competition.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

So . . .

. . . by that standard, no injury is ever cured or healed: hurt once, badly damaged for life? No player ever injured can or should ever be signed by any competent ball club. Yes or no?

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ah, yes. Let’s talk only in extremes. Since he thinks that no previously-injured player should ever be employed ever again, then that must mean that you are suggesting that all injured players should be signed to substantial, multi-year deals—-regardless of the extent of their injuries.

I think that was productive.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

No more or less so . . .

. . . than the assertion that because DeRosa had had an injury—one surgically repaired and, according to the physician, now fixed, he was “obviously” a bad signing on that basis alone.

If, as it seems, you concede that having ever had an injury is not per se a cause to never sign a player, then we get into the grey area of when or why it is or isn’t. I, fo one, would like to see some explanation of how DeRosa’s condition as then known (along, perhaps, with some documentation of what was known and by what means) more or less automatically made him a bad signing.

Like Joe Friday, all we want is the facts.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Singing a 34-year old with a wrist injury/coming off wrist surgery is a bad move.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Signing him, too.

Singing him is just awkward because nobody likes to sing, “Hold me closer Mark DeRosa.”

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're confusing him . . .

. . .with Julius La Rosa.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank you.

I knew I was getting him confused with someone.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is begging the question.

Why is it a bad move? It can only be bad if you take the position that the repair did not work, which is to say that the surgeon is a liar or a fool. As it turns out, he may have been a fool, but that was scarcely the balance of probabilities at the time.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is not the only way it can be bad. That is your opinion of the only way it can be bad. It can also be bad if one believes that baseball players and wrist injuries are a bad combination and that any surgery, no matter how major or minor is no guarantee that everything will be a-ok. That wrist is going to get tested as soon as it’s repaired, and no matter how good the surgeon’s work there’s still a possibility that an old guy doesn’t heal properly, or is even 100% healed by the time he resumes “baseball activities.” I don’t know why I need to have some literal evidence that this particular surgery should raise a warning flag.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is getting circular.

So you do say that no injured ballplayer—or at least wrist-injured—is ever again a reasonable signing for any team. It’s like horses: Injured? Just take ’em out back and shoot ’em. As good as dead anyway.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, I say that a ballplayer with a wrist-injury who’s, oh, let’s say older than 32 is not a great signing for a team. Now, I had previously said that there is no such thing as a bad one-year deal. I also think there’s no such thing as a bad two-year deal, either, so, DeRosa’s injury, while disappointing, is neither catastrophic to the team nor that big of a surprise. It is wasted money, but given the other free agents out there and Sabean’s eye for offensive talent, I don’t see how the money is suddenly better spent so, I guess I’m only critical of the Giants in the sense that they are acting like (I am inferring this from the bits I read via Baggs or elsewhere in the news items) they are surprised about this injury and hold fast to this notion that it could probably get better WITHOUT a surgery, when that wasn’t the case before.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let's take care.

The signing was not strictly speaking of “a ballplayer with a wrist-injury”: it was of a ball player with a history of a wrist injury. When an injury is repaired, it is no longer an injury. That it may, in fact, not have been repaired is quite another matter.

Of course, what you say about the way the FO has handled the entire matter is quite correct. These are people who, to turn a phrase, would rather climb a tree to be wrong than stand on the ground and be right. It is legitimate to express surprise that the injury is not, after all, repaired, but the rest of the charade goes beyond black humor to Grand Guignol.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your premise is wrong. Randy Johnson was a good signing, and his play justified it.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can you elaborate? I’m foggy on the context of that signing. I just brought it up in response to people factoring in luck when looking over the results.

You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.

by SeeingStars on Jun 21, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

He was brought in at low cost to be a fifth starter. He gave us 17 games and almost 100 innings of not-Sadowski-Martinez, pitching relatively well in the process. There’s nothing wrong with that.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

I did a double take on his season stats, but he only made it through 6 innings 6 times. The other point is definitely valid, but I still don’t think it was worthy of the contract.

You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.

by SeeingStars on Jun 21, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

yes there is

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Garrett Atkins Bobby Crosby Ben Sheets

And those are all from last offseason.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did Atkins and Crosby hamper their teams from doing anything else to make their team better?

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's not the standard.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

It is to me.

There’s no such thing as a bad one-year deal exactly because it has no chance of doing anything to hurt the team. It might prevent them from signing another free agent in that same year who might actually be great, but with trades, the minor leagues, etc. the fact that the guy will be gone next year means it doesn’t hurt your team hardly at all.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s really more of a ’there’s no such thing as a terrible one year deal’… because the bad ones are survivable.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t say Sheets is a bad deal yet.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

and of course

Bengie Molina

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well played!

You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.

by SeeingStars on Jun 21, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

but he only made it through 6 innings 6 times.

In 17 starts. As a fifth starter. I don’t know what you wanted out of him, but it may just be unreasonable.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also, pursuit of 300 victories

puts butts in the seats, so DIVIDENZ, REVENUDEZ

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't buy this argument

I don’t think Randy Johnson increased the attendance at all over what it would have been.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

AT ALL

Chasing records has done nothing to bolster the attendance at AT&T Park EVER?

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did I say that?

We were talking about RJ’s chase for 300 attracting extra fans to the park when he pitched. I just don’t believe that it happened. He wasn’t really a Giant and that 300 record will be more associated with the Diamondbacks than with the Giants.

From a pure investment point of view, I don’t think it was a good contract.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Johnson wasn’t the fifth starter, though. Sanchez was the fifth starter in every way (service time, when he pitched, money, name recognition, being dropped from the rotation due to ineffectiveness)

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

So… fourth starter, then? I guess my faulty memory put me in that fifth-starter mindset, but I don’t know that the correction really changes the terms of the argument in any significant way.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Randy Johnson was coming off a year when he’d pitched 184 innings with a 119 ERA+. He was given eight million dollars and pitched the second game of the year.

He was very clearly viewed as a key member of the rotation, and his pitching very clearly didn’t live up to that billing.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmm…

/gets memory checked.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

A fifth starter and a #1 starter have this in common:

They start 20% of their team’s games. (Well, close to—some #5s get occasional skips). But neither a W nor an L is weighted in the standings on the basis of the number in the rotation of the starter. What I expect of a fifth starter is that he can contribute substantially win ball games.

I’m not commenting at all on whether Johnson did or didn’t—just on the criteria for judgement.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it was a good signing that turned out poorly. It’s often unclear whether people here are talking about the process or the results. I thought the RJ signing was good; one-year contract to a veteran pitcher who had been quite good the previous year. If it turns out he doesn’t pitch enough innings to be worth all of the money they gave him, that doesn’t mean it was a bad process, the results just aren’t that great. Honestly, I wouldn’t mind them taking this sort of risk again with a pitcher like Pedro Martinez.

Often people will minimize his good deals like Huff by saying “bad process, good results” without identifying when the reverse happens (good process, bad results).

Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the Fresno Grizzlies.

by neurofarm on Jun 21, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

DeRosa was a bad break like shooting yourself in the head playing Russian Roulette is a bad break. It’s all about balancing risk and reward

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The prrof of that being?

Links, please.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know people ask to stop bringing up Fred Lewis, but I can’t help but do it anytime someone claims the DeRosa deal made sense at the time. We still had Lewis when we signed DeRosa. DeRosa was an old, injured, expensive Fred Lewis. His only advantage was that he could play also 2B/3B, which, on a team with Uribe as a utility man, wasn’t really that relevant.

The DeRosa deal was stupid at the time it was made.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

/blows dust of this one

VERSATILITY!

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh and

An average GM can make bad FA decisions as long as he compensates with some good ones too. That’s what average means. That’s all I’m arguing he’s done.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Average would mean that he is better than 15 GM's and worse than 15.

Making good decisions 50% of the time does not make someone average.

I don’t club baby seals 50% of the time, so I’m an average person.

by jemaine on Jun 21, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think we suffer from exposure bias

I would say that there are probably 10 GMs worse than Sabean. He’s middle of the pack.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

nope

he’s in the bottom 5, I’d be willing to bet.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well its not fair to place him in the bottom 5 as the book is still out on Zduriencik, Anthopoulos and Amaro and he is better than Omar, Wade, Agent Ned, Hendry and Moore.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

ok

bottom 8 then

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I also didn't include Wren or Brynes or might be worse.

But what is average? Top 5 are elite, bottom 5 are trash and the middle 20 are average?

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why do we need to get caught up in semantics?

it’s clear that Sabean is not good at his job!

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Amaro is fucking awful

Ryan Howard’s contract is the worst in baseball.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Because it's the newest of the worst?

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's the worst, period.

There’s no way Howard will provide anything close to that amount of value. It’s a 5 year 125 million dollar contract for a declining player.

Oh yeah, and the 5 year contract DOESNT EVEN START FOR ANOTHER 2 YEARS

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

I have a hard time thinking of a worse one

Rowand’s is bad, but it’s not for nearly as much and at least ends somewhat soon.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Seriously.

And philly fans are such homers, they were all excited for it. We’ll see how excited they are when he’s an .800 OPS hitter for the last 3 years of that contract while sucking up 75 million.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Meh, I think that contract was payment

for the championship that he brought to Philly. Even if they suffer through 5 years of that contract they still have the memories of the championship and back-to-back WS appearances.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Contracts shouldn’t be payments of past accomplishments but rather of future prospects.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Of course they should, but they never are. Just look at the Giants for prime examples of that.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

And there is nothing MEH about them

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is exactly the problem with MLB Salary structure.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ryan Howard didn't bring shit to Philly

Utley did most of the work, and he’s not getting nearly as paid.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agree

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s funny how Utley gets little MVP love when he represents what a lot of old school sports writers like.

by Natto on Jun 21, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Utley is much better than Howard but it’s not like Howard is chopped liver. Over his last 4 seasons he’s been worth over 4.5 WAR year on average.

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Completely agreed

Utley is one of the three best hitters in the league. Howard is not.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

This

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

O RLY!
It’s a 5 year 125 million dollar contract for a declining player.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Average would mean that he is better than 15 GM’s and worse than 15.

That would also imply that there are 31 teams

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just didn’t want to split poor Walt Jocketty in half.

by jemaine on Jun 21, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Man, your baby seal clubage percentage is way above mine.

I feel prickishly demanding!

I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.

by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

What is the definite, hard evidence . . .

. . . that any of the injured players—Renteria, DeRosa, Sanchez—were known injured when signed?

Rowand was signed for too much money and too long a term for a middling-at-best offense and defense, and Molina was simply a catastrophe. The others are not disastrous, and some are quite reasonable. The only one who has been “crappy” outside of reasonable expectations (we expect Molina to be toxic) is Rowand, and as I have said elsewhere I have come to believe that there is something going on there beyond mere “slump”, and it isn’t “aging” because no aging curve involves cliff edges in the very early 30s. That is not foreseeable. What could reasonably have been expected from Rowand certainly wasn’t worth the money, and probably not the term (which is bearable at proper money, because he would then be tradeable), but it wasn’t awful.

I am not defending Sabean, but one has to temper dislike with reason. The best GM makes the occasional bad move, and the worst makes the occasional good move. The criterion is the long-term overall record: is the organization getting better nearly every year? And within a plausibly corresponding budget? Does the GM show an understanding of what the elements of winning baseball are? Sabean: no.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

If they didn't know they were injured when they signed them

they’re even worse than I thought.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Again:

Links?

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

DeRosa had a surgically repaired wrist

they said it was fine. They signed him. Now, without any sort of collision or on-the-field happening, he needs another surgery.

But you’re right, the signing still makes sense. I anxiously await your psychobabble response to this.

Well if your mind is injured then your play will suffer. /latin phrase.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lookit.

This keeps coming down to the doctors said it was OK, and a bunch of non-doctors ex post facto explaining how they know and knew, much better than the doctors did, that it was obviously not OK.

Doctors: OK.
Non-doctors, who don’t even play one on TV: not OK.

Want to guess how such testimony would play out in, say, a jury trial?

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just because something is “healed” doesn’t mean it is 100% baseball-usable. There are plenty of players (Albert Belle) who suffered terrible career-ending injuries that are not in wheelchairs.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well the Giants doctors don't have a glowing track record

I mean they said Freddy Sanchez was fine last year, when he clearly wasn’t. Not to mention Noah Lowry’s rib.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Guess what

a lot of people here didn’t want derosa AT THE FUCKING TIME because they thought he was still injured! And they were right! So yeah, they actually did know more than the fucking doctors.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ah.

OK, so that settles that. The non-doctors are a better consulting source than the doctors. End of discussion.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, that is what I said!

Jesus christ it is impossible to debate with you. I never said that in every single case you should always not take the doctors’ advice. I said IN THIS ONE INSTANCE they were obviously wrong to take the chance on Derosa, and there were many here who thought so AT THE TIME. Not with hindsight, but at the time.

Also, fuck off. I’m tired of arguing with someone who has the debating tactics of a shitty politician.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

And . . .

. . . I rolled the dice many times and once got snake-eyes, so I now know that snake eyes is what to be on. How could what is very unusual (“this one instance”) be “obviously” what the case was? But I, too, am tired of arguing, in my case with what I see as one unable to reconcile rarity and obviousness.

Good night and good luck.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought DeRosa was signed before he had even recovered from his first surgery.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

True.

He signed the deal as he was being wheeled into the OR.

(Not true.)

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

DeRosa was injured when signed. Sanchez was injured when traded for.

Just get the damn surgery, Mark DeRosa.

by oldjacket on Jun 21, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

He’s going to ask you for the actual X-rays and doctor’s reports.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

yo, OT for you roto

flying into Columbus from the Bay Area is alot cheaper than going into Cincy to go to Miami, make sense?

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

How do you typically get from the airport to Oxford?

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

i have my car out there, so i'll be able to drive

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Both Dayton and Indianapolis are shorter drives to Oxford. Did you check those airports?

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, dad already booked the flight, it’s not bad, distance doesnt bother me. This’ll be my last flight back and forth to Ohio, plus it’s on southwest for 5 bucks. But yea, appreciate that, i did Indy once, most other times would be Cincy

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

You could stop at Young’s Jersey Dairy in Yellow Springs on the way if you have the time and inclination. Great ice cream!

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

In case you guys were wondering:
mental_floss
  
Ohio’s official state rock song is "Hang on, Sloopy" by The McCoys.

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

You hear it a lot growing up here.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

hear it alot at the bars

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Apparently not many states have state rock songs. Oklahoma has Do You Realize by the Flaming Lips. Washington has Louie Louie. California does not have one according to wiki.

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

California doesnt need one

the state is just that good

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

California Über Alles

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yum, AND might have to try that pizza place you were talking about… also Graeters in Cincy might be one of the best i’ve ever tried. But i might just have frat brothers drive me to and from the airport, have a few that live in the columbus area, like upper arlington

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Graeters is better than Youngs.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

You think?

i might have to try Graeters again, like actually going to the Graeters store and also Young’s

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Graeters is goooood… You can order it online, they’ll ship it to you for an arm and a leg.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, but you can agree with me here

it’s just not as good as having it made fresh right there

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Columbus has a ton of amazing local ice cream, so it’s kind of blasphemous for me to say that I prefer Graeters over most (but not all) of it. It could get me beaten up.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

The problem is with me tho, is that i’m very health conscious now ever since i was up to 280 a few years ago, it scared me, so now i’m down to 230 and intend to keep it around there, but i usually sneak it in every once in a while

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL.

DeRosa’s season ended with a wrist injury, and he had wrist surgery in the off-season. The burden is pretty low.

Just get the damn surgery, Mark DeRosa.

by oldjacket on Jun 21, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is not smoke.

Unless you have evidence that there is a fire.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I really don’t know how much more evidence is required, espcially since additional evidence is confidential and protected by federal law. Fucking HIPPA.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

You really don't know?

A man has a surgical repair of a not very complex sort to repair a relatively routine (if possibly serious) condition and is told that the condition was indeed repaired. The presumption at that point is which:

a) the condition was indeed repaired and he is as good as he was before it arose; or

b) the physician is a total fucking liar or major incompetent, and we shouldn’t believe a word he says.

Which would seem, at the time, the more reasonable choice?

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow, false dichotomy much?

How about C) no medical treatment of any kind is successful 100% of the time and orthopedic procedures in particular have a high failure rate? Treatment never equals cure. Never.

Signing a player who is still rehabbing from an injury seems unwise to me. The team never saw him work out “healthy” (after the completion of rehab). They knew he was older and coming off an injury from which older players often fail to completely recover. They knew this. We know this. The lack of caution is galling. Sabean is far from beyond reproach on this.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also, DeRosa himself said that the initial surgery didn’t work. Now, that was after the season began. I bring it up because it illustrates a few things. One: even if we assume that the surgeon performed his job properly (no one has suggested he didn’t), the treatment didn’t work. It happens. In fact, DeRosa was certainly counseled by the physician that this could happen. This counseling (informed consent) is mandated by common law. Yet somewhere along the line, Sabean decided it wasn’t necessary to wait to see if the surgery was successful before he committed millions of dollars to a player still rehabbing a joint after that surgery. All of this is public record and requires no access to confidential medical records.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK, but . . .

. . . then we’re back to the “never sign a once-injured player” standard.

I repeat that I am not saying Sabean is good, or is utterly blameless in this instance. I am saying that it is very far from the cut-and-dried “he fucked up” knee jerking I am seeing here. There was much reason to believe that routine surgery on a routine condition had, as expected and is normal, fixed the problem. Some further “due diligence” (and maybe even tire-kicking) could probably have included some “show-me” workouts, but I’ll tell you what: I bet they’d have looked OK. DeRosa went to Spring Training, then opened the season and played enough to get over a hundred PAs, and it took a good while before it became apparent that there was a nontrivial problem. That a demo workout or two would have made manifest some problem is at least unclear, and most likely it would not.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

FYI, cornball actually IS a doctor.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

And that changes the argument . . .

. . . how?

There was much reason to believe that routine surgery on a routine condition had, as expected and is normal, fixed the problem. Is that in error?

That a demo workout or two would have made manifest some problem is at least unclear, and most likely it would not.
Or that?

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn’t say that it changes anything. I just thought it might be a relevant piece of context.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK.

Taken as such.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

No . . .

. . . just a link to some credible medical source suggesting that one or more of those players was probably, or I’d even settle for “possibly” not back to his condition prior to the injury. Not fans, not columnists, not baseball people, credible medical sources (even if as hearsay).

If one is going to judge a man by actions he took based on knowledge he had, one has to first show in some at least modestly persuasive way that he indeed had such knowledge—not intuitions, not opinions from nonexperts, but something realistically approaching knowledge.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only one of those 3 players was signed to be a starter

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Giants didn't need an okay hitting catcher for one season in 2004.

They could have gone with a defensive type catcher in Torrealba.. And if they were so intent on getting a hitter through trade, they should have kept their trading pieces to have gotten someone better.

by AmorVincitOmnia on Jun 21, 2010 10:44 AM PDT reply actions  

This.

They should’ve just signed Vlad Guerrero.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Didn't he want Carlos Lee as well?

I think he went after every horrible free-agent left-fielder during the 2006 off-season and ended up getting the best one -Bonds on a one-year deal. This would have been good fortune but instead the team ended up signing Barry Zito. As far as 2010, I think we should wait until the year is over before calling him a good GM again. It’s easy to feel good about the offense after they scored 9 runs. We’ll see if they keep it up, or at what expense we get a league average offense – I still don’t think the other shoe has dropped on Huff and Burrell in the same outfield. And we’re starting to see how lucky last year’s bullpen performance was … a bit flukish that with the starting pitching the team had should have been a magical year, but because someone who believes in ribbies and clutch hitting built the offense they ended up in third place.

by ErodCal on Jun 21, 2010 11:05 AM PDT reply actions  

He'll never be a good GM "again," so don't worry about that rush to judgment.

I think that instead of just saying that Brian Sabean never does anything worthwhile, we can say that he has done a couple of things this year that have actually worked out well for our favorite Baseball team.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Vert OT: Cute

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:15 AM PDT reply actions  

om nom nom nom

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

kitty brains!

"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.

by hairball on Jun 21, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Drool Zombie?

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sabez can make some good signings, but I’m still waiting for him to make a trade that doesn’t suck.

by GrooveGiant on Jun 21, 2010 11:21 AM PDT reply actions  

This did not suck

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

July 30, 2001

I’m not sayin’, just sayin’.

by chilibean_3 on Jun 21, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah, that was pretty awesome

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can we do that again?

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol one good trade in 15 years

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

There were at least four great trades

I don’t care to think about ones we might classify as good. (Actually, I might change the Burks trade from great to good…)

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

(i was joking)

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh

Well, then so was I!

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Uh, we stole Freddy Sanchez from the Bucs, didn’t we?

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I miss Dave Littlefield. LOL

New Pittsburgh GM Dave Littlefield, making his first trade, received outfielder Armando Rios and righthander Ryan Vogelsong in return.

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m sure Sabean does, too.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think this is part of the problem

Sabean used to be an average GM who could make deals with worse GM’s. Then the quality of GM’s improved, and Sabean found himself as one of the worst in the baseball.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, kinda

I mean, I’m not so sure this one should count. We traded for him, he barely played until his contract expired, and then we resigned him for more than market cost.

I’d consider this one to be a good signing and a bad trade rolled into one.

by GrooveGiant on Jun 21, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Giants dont sign Sanchez

if they hadn’t traded for him in 09. You are seeing what a terrific ballplayer he is. Sabean made a good deal there.

by lexluth7 on Jun 21, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lex check your car keys or did i just get ’Chasmed?

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Stole" an injured player

Who barely did anything for the team when he got here.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure what the goal was there.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Who did the PTBNL end up being?

by GrooveGiant on Jun 21, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Saving the millions left on morris’s contract wast a good ptbnl

by nataku on Jun 21, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

A guy whose name I’ve forgotten who I think is already out of the system (though I could be wrong about that)

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

At the risk of being chasm'd - that's Seth.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was amazing.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Traded for Kent (I think he was lucky, but still it didn’t suck)
Traded for Nen
Traded for Burks
Traded for Schmidt.
There might be a couple others to toss in, as well.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hated giving up Foppert but in hindsight, the Randy Winn trade was good for a year or two.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

And GRM hasn't even showed up yet

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Mmmmmm...graham crackers.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 11:29 AM PDT reply actions  

I’d rather have Tayne than Sabes.

Ask me about my blog.

by xanthan on Jun 21, 2010 11:36 AM PDT reply actions  

In before Kim Ng!!

You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.

by SeeingStars on Jun 21, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

this

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

OT: Who is pitching Saturday Night against Sox?

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:38 AM PDT reply actions  

YEAH JOEY?

Although Wellemeyer is eligible to go off the DL that day.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

noooooo

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

MadBum had 11Ks in Fresno last night….
Or is throwing him out there agains that lineup just cruel?

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah, no

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

a) Yeah no, it’s cruel
b) Yeah no, it will not happen
c) Yeah no, it should not happen
d) All of the above

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

D

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

But mostly c

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

BOS

vs RHP – .277/.348/.460
vs LHP – .281/.366/.489

I’d like to see MadBum called up soon, but not sure this is the right game to do it.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

OUCH.

Yeah, Youkilis, Pedroia, Beltre would be a tough trio against lefties. Hell, even Scutaro.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

The kid from CSM

Nava is still swinging a hot stick, too.

Also LOL on Beltre doing his best Andruw Jones impression when swinging for the fences.

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

by SoFa King Mike on Jun 21, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

St Francis High School

Dan is a super nice guy and his little brother was in my class. Truth.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey! I lasted one year at St. Francis! Boy were they glad to see the last of me…

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

The counter-argument there is that the Red Sox hitting takes a dive on the road and especially on the West Coast. But yeah, I’d like an easier assignment for the kid than Giants/Red Sox, Monte Irvin night, a national audience and Buchholz on the mound.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

You mean when he started for Timmy? IIRC he only gave up 2 solo HRs in like 5 innings in that game.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pitched into the 6th, too, but Kouzmanoff and Headley hit bob-ombs. My memory thought he got hit a lot harder than the box score indicates.

/leaves mom’s basement since this isn’t working

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

IIRC Tim did the same thing during his first home start against the Phillies.

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

by SoFa King Mike on Jun 21, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Howard launched a fucking shot. Yeah, like I said, things would be different probably if Bumgarner gets called up to start this year.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just for fun, lines for notable pitching debuts

Williams – 4ip, 5h, 5r, 5er, 5bb, 3k, 0hr (L)
Foppert – 4ip, 5h, 5r, 5er, 4bb, 3k, 0hr (L)
Lowry – 3ip, 9h, 4r, 4er, 2bb, 1k, 1hr (L)
Cain – 5ip, 3h, 2r, 2er, 4bb, 2k, 1hr (L)
Lincecum – 4.1ip, 5h, 5r, 5er, 5bb, 5k, 2hr (L)
Bumgarner – 5.1ip, 5h, 2r, 2er, 1bb, 4k, 2hr (ND)

The morale of the story is, MadBum bucked tradition and actually did ok by getting the ND.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, he did!

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

The first of a long string of Cainings.

01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey

Wave them home Tim Flannery, wave them home.

by sanfrankid on Jun 21, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

I was just thinking the same thing.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was there!

Guess who he was pitching against

BYUNG-HYUN FREAKING KIM.

He threw 7 shutout innings against the Giants

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I still remember Krukow’s words – “Somehow it’s fitting that a pitcher with a classic style like Cain will be opposed by a guy with the funkiest delivery in baseball.”

I still remember Cain’s first major league at bat against BHK too. D:

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don’t know where you’re getting those, but going off my (often faulty) memory, Lowry never took a loss until his second year.

I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?

by Ott on Jun 21, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait, that’s right. He had a bunch of NDs to start off:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=lowryno01&t=p&year=2004

The team lost his first start, though.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

The team lost, but Lincecum got a ND in his first start.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or wait, were you talking about when he relieved Cain in the 2nd to last game of the season at PETCO? He threw a couple of scoreless innings in that one.

Sep 8: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SFN/SFN200909080.shtml
Oct 3: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SDN/SDN200910030.shtml

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

go spaiBRRRRRZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 11:45 AM PDT reply actions  

Aw crap, I wanted to see this game too. I’ve got a stupid paper due at 2pm and I’m not getting very far with it.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jun 21, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

credit to sabean?

Banned!!

oh wait its grant…….nvm

in soviet russia, run scores you!....and giants still have terrible offense

Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"

by slackersphere17 on Jun 21, 2010 11:49 AM PDT reply actions  

There’s a diligence joke hiding somewhere in the title of this story, but I’m not going to be the one to make it.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 11:56 AM PDT reply actions  

You’re not even going to kick the tires on it?

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Most likely, he’ll think of something at the end of the day.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pitching

The only real pitching blunder that I can think of is trading away Nathan (it’s kind of unfair to blame him for Liriano).

Even Barnes and Alderson have turned out in Sabean’s favor (though, not the Garko part of the Barnes trade).

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 11:57 AM PDT reply actions  

Grant gives Sabean credit where credit is due

For once, that’s why the post is short.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 12:05 PM PDT reply actions  

OPS+/ERA+

2010: 95/130
2009: 80/123
2008: 83/102
2007: 82/107
2006: 90/97
2005: 86/99
2004: 104/101
2003: 99/113
2002: 110/109
2001: 112/96
2000: 115/102
1999: 103/92
1998: 108/97
1997: 98/94
1996: 94/86

So, for credit where credit is due, Sabean has put together an above average offense 6 times and an above average pitching staff 7 times. In 14 years. Only 3 times did those two things happen in the same year.

I mean, good God.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 12:13 PM PDT reply actions  

wow...

that’s actually worse than I thought.

It would make sense to just list pythagoran wins though… I mean, there are a bunch of 97s-102s in there that basically wash out to average.

TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development

by zenbitz on Jun 21, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I was thinking of calling something like 95 – 105 as average, and things outside that range as above or below average. I just didn’t want to segment it too much.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

League Average in the NL is 94 nearly every year

Right now, it’s 95 and the Giants are right there

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Okay, so then ignore the sentences up there. If my parameters were wrong, then my words were wrong. How do you feel about those numbers, by themselves, outside of any bias or implication I might have made after listing them, excluding 1996, which I appear to have included in error.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I listed the numbers from each year to see if Sabean has given us consistent reasons to credit him for developing something. Does he make good offenses? Does he make good pitching staffs? Occasionally, yes. More often than not, they’re close to average. Sometimes, they’re terrible.

The point was: I’m happy to give Sabean credit for the offense this year. He made the signings and deserves that credit, whether or not it was luck. But is there a history of the same thing that should give me cause to give him credit for actually being good at it? I’m not sure.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

bingo
But is there a history of the same thing that should give me cause to give him credit for actually being good at it? I’m not sure.

I’ll give you a hint: the answer is no

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think his track record is highly suspect, BUT...

…I think things are definitely better. I don’t know if Sabean has changed his ways, been lucky or was previously following some sort of Magowan edict of immediate gratification.

Whatever the case, he seems to have dug out from the hole created during the Bonds years and I like the direction the team has been heading.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're right

that makes the terrible numbers slightly less terrible! But still terrible!

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

what’s the average NL ERA+? If we’re league adjusting one side of the equation, we should league adjust the other side.

Just get the damn surgery, Mark DeRosa.

by oldjacket on Jun 21, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Looks like it’s about 101 virtually every year.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which would make a "good" anything over 195 when you add them together (AKA Goofus favorite team stat)

2010: 95/130= 225
2009: 80/123=203
2008: 83/102=185
2007: 82/107=189
2006: 90/97=187
2005: 86/99=185
2004: 104/101=205
2003: 99/113=212
2002: 110/109=219
2001: 112/96=208
2000: 115/102=217
1999: 103/92=200
1998: 108/97=205
1997: 98/94=192

Sabean looks a little better in that context

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

9 "good", 5 "bad"

and ‘97 wasn’t that bad

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

now compare that to any one team over that same period for some perspective. doesn’t matter really which team i suppose

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

That list is pretty similar to how I remember Sabean’s career-to-date. Good Barry years, things went way downhill for several years (‘05-’08) and the team has been pretty competitive last year and this year.

I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?

by Ott on Jun 21, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I’d almost throw out 1997 since that team was still more Bob Quinn’s than his.

The ‘05 through ’08 years were really the only bad teams. In 2005, I guess I’d cut him some slack since Bonds was hurt and Snow, Tucker and Alfonso all collectively fell off the face of the earth.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dunno about 97. A lot of that team came from Sabean: Kent, Snow, Tavarez, Vizcaino, Darryl Hamilton, Brian Johnson, and the whole White Flag trade.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

And the main reason I didn’t do something like pythagoran wins was because part of the premise of the post is giving Sabean credit for either the offense or the pitching, individual of each other. I’m not sure how much we can give him credit for either. Throughout his career, he hasn’t shown much of an ability to put together either one consistently.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or, I mean, we can certainly give him credit for the results. But a good process would correlate with more consistency in one of the two areas. I would think. And certainly more success.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes

but net wins are more important that balance.

And a good GM with a limited (even if large) budget has to be able to work with what’s available.
Your “only 3 times was he above average in both” is cherry picking because of years like 2003 and 1998 where he did put pretty good teams on the field.

The big knocks on Sabean from 1997-2004 were that:
a) He was spotted Barry Bonds and never managed to correctly ’build around him"
b) He managed to get above average teams on the field for these 7 years (“Bonds core years”), but utterly demolished the farm system to win 1 pennant in that time, with the best player in baseball.

He did eventually rebuild the farm system, but mostly that was because the teams stank so bad it got higher draft picks. I guess that makes him (and his team) “average” in player development — because he could have done much worse (if most of those high picks washed out), but could have done much better in the preceeding “low pick” years.

TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development

by zenbitz on Jun 21, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

And I don’t disagree with any of that, necessarily. I’m just trying to work in the framework of “Sabean gets credit for the pitching, but not for the offense.” The original post isn’t talking about giving him credit for balance. It’s talking about giving him credit for one or the other. I know that my conclusion paragraph was a little squiffy, but I don’t know why it’s a problem to keep offense and pitching separate in a response to a post that is addressing them separately.

(defense, I suppose, is the ignored wrinkle in all of this).

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

This makes me want to eat a galllon of ice cream

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

i recommend the HD mint chip

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have a mint chip It’s-It waiting in my freezer

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

by SoFa King Mike on Jun 21, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

mint chip It’s-Its? i was well aware of the mint, but not the mint chip. please confirm.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

The chips are on the cookies, but I'm not complaining

Target apparently has Choco Tacos and It’s-It in its freezers now.

I was very excited.

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

by SoFa King Mike on Jun 21, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh, i see. there are also bits of raisins in the cookie part.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kinda meh on Choco Tacos. They’re not as good as Timmy makes ’em sound. :[

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

often, the idea of something differs greatly with the reality of that something.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Indeed.

/buys Dragon Speech Recognition software

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

FIXED
often, the idea perception of the value of something differs greatly with the reality evaluator of that something.

Case(s) in point: the MCC various takes on the arts.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

well done.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and don’t look at, or try to pronounce anything on the ingredient list!

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

often is the case with treats of this nature.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

with Bone chips on top

Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels

by capn on Jun 21, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sabean wasn’t the GM during the 1996 season.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which obviously doesn’t change that much, but still.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

STOP FACT CHECKING ME!

Stupid wikipedia says he took the job in 1996. I guess that was after the season.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

WHY ISNT THE CALENDAR ARRANGED IN BASEBALL YEARS!!?!??

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

first rule of the internet: if you can think of it, there is a website for it; if there is no website, make one.

(credit xkcd)

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

A little of both

Bob Quinn was still officially the GM in 1996, but was in the process of basically retiring (while still drawing a paycheck as “Vice President and Senior Advisor”). Quinn turned over most of the day-to-day operations to Sabean during the 1996 season.

As an example, this year’s Giants Media Guide includes a section entitled, “Sabean’s Top Trades”. That list begins with the July 30, 1996 trade of Mark Leiter for Kirk Rueter and Tim Scott. Mark Carreon for Jim Poole and PTBNL (7/9/96), and Kirt Manwaring for Rick Wilkins (7/26/96) were also trades that, more than likely, Sabean made that year.

Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher?

by tobias on Jun 22, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wrong stats

Only thing that matters is w-l and post season. Sabean’s early years were probably the most sucessful in SF Giant history (Rosen may beat him I’m not sure). He was a Felix Rodriguez pitch away from the only WS in SF history.

Last half of his tenure ha been bleak. Very bleak.

by lexluth7 on Jun 21, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you’re misinterpreting my intent. I’m trying to show his acuity at building either an offense or a pitching staff during his tenure. He has done neither one consistently.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

He was a Felix Rodriguez pitch away from the only WS in SF history.

Does Felix know another pitch besides outside fastball?

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

BANNED.

.277/.399/.518 out of a shortstop?!

Keep on, keepin' on, Ryan Cavan

by ryanmiles on Jun 21, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

First thing you change when you invent a time machine?

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Communism in Canada, tacos now made with peanut butter, possums are the new dogs.

Changes to MCC: None to speak of.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

At the very LEAST - ripples of applause!

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

And 80% of all current first graders in the Bay Area are named Robb

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah, fuck you

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

FUCK YOU

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

What the hell :(

best part was I WASNT WATCHING GAME 7 since i was at a 49er game vs. the Cardinals where they absolutely KILLED the Cards

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

What the deuce?

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sabean Was Not The GM In 96

In 8 of his 14 years he had produced and above average OPS+ Plus ERA+ Team which is by definition above average over all performance.

by giantsrainman on Jun 21, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I was already corrected about 1996, and we’ve discussed better ways to contextualize the numbers I used.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Credit

Let’s see how the offense shakes out in the next 90 games before we start anointing BS the coveted “average GM” title.
His cheap moves have paid big dividends, and his big moves have been dog shit. All his moves were rightfully panned (with the possible exceptions of the Juan Uribe and Pat Burrell aquisitions).

I admit, he is looking pretty reasonable right now, but he still has time for guys to cool off and make some dopey trade.

TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development

by zenbitz on Jun 21, 2010 12:14 PM PDT reply actions  

TRADE DOPEY!

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dopey say "Hi Vic! Why the hatin'?"

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, I dunno, do I need a reason?

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

No wait, trade Doc, and get one with a degree that’s not from the Hollywood Upstairs Medical College!!

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Happy’s a prick.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Happy’s a prick.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

actually

what I should really say – Sabes DOES get credit here – credit for DEPTH in position players.

TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development

by zenbitz on Jun 21, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

As for being an average GM

I’ve been drawn in before by starting to think that Sabean was doing better. I will not be fooled again.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

CHA-CHUNG! Yeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — [pauses] – shame on you. Fool me — You can’t get fooled again.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 8 times, am I a fucking idiot?

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

They are on a roll

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

My biggest beef with Sabean

is somewhat different. It is that the organization has not, imo, developed any kind of effective hitting approach. Some organizations do this. They demand of their minor leagures that they learn plate discipline etc. They emphasize working pitchers. Getting pitch counts up etc. Bottom line – getting to middle relievers is the key to an effective offense. If you let starters go deep you are in trouble.

Giants are STILL LAST in number of pitches seen. That is despite hitters such as Huff and Sanchez that have shown the ability to work at bats.

As for his free agency record – he’s whiffed on the long term contract guys for several years. Zito was a disastrous signing. They could have signed him for considerably less. Rowand awful. Particularly the number of years.

He has done better on his mid-level and shorter term deals. Huff being the best example recently. But he’s a one year guy (unsure about options). I like him, but still wouldn’t offer more than 2 years after ’10. I think Huff will want more.

Trades? Sanchez deal looks good. Otherwise, yuck.

Here’s the real question: How do the minors look. I think he has a pretty solid argument that he has drafted fairly well. . During Bonds, he drafted pitchers high and often used them as bait. it worked quite well until Bonds last couple years. Those years were about a home run chase. And it is during those years that I believe the organization took two Giant steps backward.

Bottom line: he’s been here an awfully long time. At some point change is good. Unless this team makes the playoffs, I’d like to see him gone.

by lexluth7 on Jun 21, 2010 12:17 PM PDT reply actions  

Sabean's beef with road beef:
@SavvySabes: Canadian road beef is the worst. This is the best we can do here: http://tweetphoto.com/28329455

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's a couple paragraphs in Moneyball

Devoted to the subject of whether or not an ‘organizational hitting strategy’ can actually do anything to change hitters, and I seem to recall the conclusion being that hitters are who they are, regardless of a philosophy you try to put on them.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just look at the Phillies trying to make Jimmy Rollins a slap hitter a few years ago. The guy can actually hit for power, but because he’s a speedy leadoff guy, they want him just hitting the ball into the ground.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am unsure about that – I can see how by 25 or 26 that might be true, but less so for younger players.
Part of having an organizational hitting philosophy (a consistent one anyway) is that it allows you to draft and develop hitters that fit your philosophy. Of course, that means the organization would have to develop position players…

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

It begins with the draft, right? When the Giants first started paying attention to their farm, they drafted jack-of-all-trades “toolsy” guys like Fred, Nate and Ishi. Then they changed course and started drafting guys who hit for power. Now it looks like their emphasis is on speed. Seems to me that if there’s a consistent organizational hitting philosophy, it’s not being reflected in their draft picks.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

The easy response then is ...

that you select hitters that fit your philosophy

by lexluth7 on Jun 21, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Dibs on the Confucious hitters.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is going to give me strange ice cream dreams.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Keep a dream diary, then post them here.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

careful, it could be an ice creamy dream.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s only a wet dream because the ice cream melted.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mom: Son, why are your sheets so sticky.
Howie: The ice cream. It melted, I swear!

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I did not say pictures were necessary

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

mmm… dibs

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sanchez deal doesn't look good yet

his injuries arguably cost the Giants a chance at the playoffs last year, and may have also cost some games this year

I like my beer cold ... my TV loud ... and my romosexuals flaming.--Homer Simpson

by nogooddeed on Jun 21, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting...

My head was spinning from the Spilborghs grand slam to the end of the season and I just didn’t want to think about ‘09 after it was over, so I never thought about how having Sanchez on the active roster might’ve helped the team…

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Last year

I get what you’re saying but it wasn’t like Alderson was going to get us to the playoffs

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

PS on my beef

i also don’t like the way he has constructed this line-up. No balance. Torres the only speed guy in a park that cries for speed/gap hitters.

by lexluth7 on Jun 21, 2010 12:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Brett Pill article

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100621&content_id=11429444&vkey=news_t259&fext=.jsp&sid=t259

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 12:29 PM PDT reply actions  

please don’t let this be some PCL mirage…

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

mirage?

an .800-ish OPS, combined with his walk rate, isn’t that impressive, especially for a first basemen

by superk1ng on Jun 21, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Speaking to the steady improvement, mainly.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOLSPAIN.

That was a truly awful PK.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 12:49 PM PDT reply actions  

David ViLOLa

Maybe he just wants to score an awesome goal for the hat trick…

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jun 21, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

OH SNAP

http://www.sfsymphony.org/season/Event.aspx?eventid=41972

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry

by jctGamer on Jun 21, 2010 1:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Holy shit thatt’s awesome.

01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey

Wave them home Tim Flannery, wave them home.

by sanfrankid on Jun 21, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why it's hard to judge a GM

article the first:

If Sabes had signed NIck Johnson instead of Aubrey Huff (or even Freddie Sanchez)- this would have been the “better move at the time”, even though it would have been
a) worse for the team
b) more expensive.

The last time I thought Sabean turned the corner was when he signed Edgardo Alfonzo. Well, I though a smelt a brief whiff of competence when he signed Phelps last year as well…

TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development

by zenbitz on Jun 21, 2010 1:18 PM PDT reply actions  

OT

We signed Bochy…….’s son.

http://www.kuathletics.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/062110aaa.html

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 1:28 PM PDT reply actions  

He certainly had excellent strikeout numbers in college, at least.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I’m more enthusiastic about his signing than his dad’s:

In his Kansas career, Bochy went 7-0 with a 3.62 ERA in 55 career appearances. He posted 32 walks and 110 strikeouts in 77 innings in a Jayhawk uniform.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

that's sayin something

which Bochy will turn out better, Bruce or the son

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ll go with the guy who had Tommy John.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I find it pretty amazing

Guys like Brian wilson who come back from Tommy Johns and are pretty damn successful, not too sure it happens often, but with Wilson, and hopefully Bochy

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

It happens fairly regularly...

enough for some people to ask, mostly for entertainment’s sake, why pitchers don’t all just get TJ surgery.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha, yea that would interesting, but it is pretty amazing the things people go through to come back and pitch as hard as they do, like Wilson, throwing 98 even though he had this surgery

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

because he had this surgery.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, pretty much, weird how that works out

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ve heard that arms often heal stronger than before after Tommy John surgery. Not sure if it’s true, but I’ve heard it.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is not a pretty sentence.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

It lacks inner beauty, as well.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

it’s midder beauty, though…wow.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

But for the most part, It is what is being said in a lot of baseball circles.

TJ surgery is so advanced now, they are rebuilding arms better then they were before.

Of course this invites two camps.
1) Good for the players and science!
2) THIS IS PERFORMANCE ENHANCING TANTAMOUNT TO CHEATING, BAN THEM! WITCHES! BURN THEM!

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

WALTER JOHNSON AINT HAD THAT!@

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Walter Johnson’s pitching motion was ridiculous.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love playing with the old time pitchers in MVP 05

just for their windups

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I absolutely can’t believe that Johnson, with that lazy side-arming motion, pitched in the upper 90s. Yet he did. What a sport.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Basically what you're saying is kinda like Every6thday

After one has the surgery, the muscles in the arm get stronger?

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure how it works, but I’ve heard that arms come back stronger after TJ.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whoa! I just read the same thing!

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was just making the sentence prettier.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m going to need you to provide a link showing that you heard that somewhere.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do you really want a link to my ass?

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

how about a strike and dip of your asphault?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

wait

that sounded more gay than i intended for the geology joke

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

No. I don’t want to get overly anal about this.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

That just sounds pretty weird

just a question, but after surgery there has to be some sort of steroids injected into the muscle to help it build and repair right?

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna enjoy it when he reaches the majors

and Bruce turns him into a 1B

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Other team's catching prospects

The Astros are calling up their C prospect. Going to be weird again to see a catching prospect actually playing catcher…

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

"Quiet you, I'm starting a meme." - Me

Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.

by DrStankus on Jun 21, 2010 1:31 PM PDT reply actions  

This has probably been discussed, but Lincecum, Zito and Cain will actually face 3 n00bs in the Houston lineup – Jason Castro, Chris Johnson and Jason Bourgeois. Hopefully they got a good scouting report on them.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience

by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 21, 2010 1:32 PM PDT reply actions  

So much soccer, it's crazy

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

i lol'd

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

/changes channel

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

It takes a dwarf to fart that long.

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL YOU

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

/ignores this

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

but

by “/ignores this” you have unignored this. now the universe is reeling from your misdeed of paradoxing actions. won’t you think of the universe?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can ignore something that you are aware of, though.

My friend gave me some advice the other night, but I ignored it. I know advice was given. I might even know what that advice is. I just didn’t care.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

quiet, you.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

/ignores this

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

but

by "/ignores this" you have unignored this. now the universe is reeling from your misdeed of paradoxing actions. won’t you think of the universe?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

OT

On a thread like this that’s updating constantly, when I try and type a comment somewhere up the page, my browser (Firefox) keeps scrolling away from what I’m typing. Is there any way to prevent this from happening?

Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the Fresno Grizzlies.

by neurofarm on Jun 21, 2010 1:45 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, it’s really annoying.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have that problem too.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

if you type the next letter without clicking away from the text box, it should zip the text box back into view.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

assuming you were already typing something to begin with.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hit my computer with a 4 lb. singlejack.

Now it gets right in line.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

what port does the singlejack

connect to?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Port "L"

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

baud rate:

50 newtons

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like Xanthan's power rankings blurb more
Buster Posey may not be the savior after all. He’s 3-for-31 over his past eight games. He’s still hitting .303 because of the hot start, but keep an eye on him. If Posey continues to slump, the Giants will probably send him back to Triple-A so he can work on his catching. – Jeff Fletcher

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 1:46 PM PDT reply actions  

Free Agent Stock Watch: Huff

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/06/free-agent-stock-watch-aubrey-huff.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

What do you guys think? Personally, I’d like to bring Huff back for another year if he keeps producing well (I mean like an .850 OPS or something) for 6 million or so.

We don’t really have a 1B for next year anyway.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 1:47 PM PDT reply actions  

PFFT

Buster Posey says:
WHAT THE FUCK WHY AM I STILL AT FIRST BASBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wish we had signed him to a team option.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Expect Huff to re-sign with the Giants

He’ll listen to my fatherly advice

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let’s just wait to see how he finishes the season.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

The problem is . . .

. . . that if he continues as it is reasonable to expect him to continue, he is going to have a pretty fair market value, and will likely be looking for a high-dollars, longer-term deal. The best hope is that he will have a warm spot for the Giants owing to their taking him on when no one else would, and perhaps settle for a two-year medium-bucks deal, or something of the sort.

He is 33 now, so he might be thinking that his next contract will be his last. The Giants may have to consider whether they can give him a long-term deal with the idea of trading him away after 2011 (assuming one or another of the 1B prospects pans out and is ready by then). If the dollars were not terribly high (so as to keep his contract tradeable), I’d suspect it would be a chance worth taking.

Oh, and ditto Uribe. Note also that Burrell and Torres are FA after this year, so I guess ditto them, too.

This will be a winter that will really hold Sabean’s (and ownership’s) feet to the fire.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder if Huff would take 2/$10 million right now

Even though I adopted him and am a huge supporter (yes, when you think huge athletic supporter, think Goofus), I wouldn’t have dreamed of giving him that before the season. Now I would. Obvisouly, his bat has been terrific, but his defenive flexibility has been far beyond what we expected. He’s no great shakes in the OF, but the fact that he doesn’t kill you out there gives the team more options to fit pieces around him.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think it would be a bad move to lock him up now with a 2 year deal.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe not 2 years straight.

1 year, with an option?

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

But . . .

. . . that assumes that all the choice is with the Giants—that he would take whatever he is offered. He sems a nice guy who would give some weight to gratitude, but if someone else offers him 4 years and $25 million, how far does gratitude go? I am, as I say below, not a contracts expert, but I’d be inclined—unless he accepts some initial small offer like that—to take a shot at a long-term but medium-bucks deal, so that he remains tradeable in a year or two.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think Torres is an FA after this year

Isn’t he still under team control? Thought he was pre-arb?

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 21, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he is

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't re-sign him too quickly

Next year’s FA class is loaded. I think if he keeps it up and qualifies as a Type A/B FA then offer Arb and see what he does.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Terrible news, everyone.

Amanda Bynes has retired from acting.

:(

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 2:33 PM PDT reply actions  

She is 24, but I’ve only seen her in movies where she’s younger. So since I’m about to turn 32, I need to refrain from commenting.

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I went to IMDB

where it showed me that I’ve never seen her before I went to IMDB

(turn on THAT for awhile)

But, having watched Robots I’ve heard her.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

My wife actually liked "What I Like About You"

I do not know why.

It was also one of those likes where she sat and just made fun of it the entire time, but did not want to miss an episode

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

24!!!!?!?!?!?!?

Damn she was a my dream girl when i was younger, and all the sudden now she’s not doing anymore movies? Guess it’s for the better

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Guess it’s for the better

This is what the movies think as well.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

she's hot

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

This story is from 7 years ago, right?

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

all those other actors must be really poor to have to work long after actors retirement age of 24.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Never heard of her.

Even after I used teh google I didn’t recognize her.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

her butt

is semi-cylindrical?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Error

The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.

by ResDog on Jun 21, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Father must be a baker

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond, Brian Anderson.
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jun 21, 2010 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the demographic of people who would recognize her is pretty narrow.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

So we’re never going to get that What A Girl Wants sequel?!

by Natto on Jun 21, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

What A Woman Wants

Now in turnaround.

(Btw, the answer, it turns out, is EVERYTHING!)

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

No “All That” movie?

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whoa, Jamie Lynn Spears was a regular on that show?

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was when it was terrible though

Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE

by CB30 on Jun 21, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I miss Lori Denberg.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

“Vital information for your everyday life”

Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE

by CB30 on Jun 21, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I remember watching All That as a kid, so much fun

Round house? anyone remember that?

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey Dude?

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Melody was hawt!!

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lol, yea for sure, i totally agree, Salute your shorts was awesome

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

90's Nickelodeon FTW!

How about You Can’ Do That On Television or Double Dare?

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

GUTS and Legend of the Hidden Temple are the correct answer.

Wild and Crazy Kids is also acceptable. LOLMAR GOODING.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

D-d-d-do you have it? GUTS

W-w-w-wwild and crazy kids

Wh-wh-wha- what would you do?

Unoriginal but by far the best programming in television history.

by Fire Sabean on Jun 21, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

it was always disturbing to later see Omar Gooding as the coked up running back in PLAYMAKERS

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

90's Nick was probably the best series of television

shows on any station

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

IAWTC

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

YES

All That, The Amanda Show, CatDog, Doug, Hey Arnold, Kenan and Kel, Rocket Power, Rocko’s Modern Life, Rugrats. Those were the days.

Somewhere in the minor leagues, Joe Paterson is pitching.

by imovermyhead on Jun 21, 2010 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rugrats was awesome. I remember watching that show for hours upon hours every weekend.

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jun 21, 2010 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pffft you kids…
You want real animated goodness try Rocky and Bullwinkle, George of the Jungle, Tom Slick, Super Chicken, The Mighty Heroes, or Kimba the White Lion.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ther power of Google compels me!
When you find yourself in danger,

 When you’re threatened by a stranger,
 When it looks like you will take a lickin’,
                  (bukbukbukbuk)
There is someone waiting,
Who will hurry up and rescue you,
Just Call for Super Chicken!
       (bukGAWWWK!)

 Fred, if you’re afraid you’ll have to overlook it,
 Besides you knew the job was dangerous when you took it
   (bukGAWWWK!)
He will drink his super sauce
And throw the bad guys for a loss
And he will bring them in alive and kickin’
        (bukbukbukbuk)
There is one thing you should learn
When there is no one else to turn to
SqwaaaaaAAAAWWK for Super Chicken!
      (bukbukbukbuk)
SqwaaaaaAAAAWWK for Super Chicken!
              (bukGAWWWK!)

And I was shocked, SHOCKED, I say, to find out that they’d screwed up the lyric.

(so I took editing liberties)

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I youtubed it, and was surprised that I knew all the lyrics to that and Tom Slick.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Old Merope is old.

Did you ever imagine that one of Felix The Cat’s nemeses would be integral to stopping your car?

50, 000 Frankenfrancs.
Go ahead and Google.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL OLD PEOPLE

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

HAHA YEAH

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 22, 2010 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

BUT

i did watch those shows as a kid as well, Peabody?
remember that show? My nickname by my dad because of it

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWhLSOISboc

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Aware of this person I am not

Goes that for both Yoda and me

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is this a bad thing?

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

FresnoGrizzlies
#Bowkermania! John Bowker claims PCL Player of the Week honors.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 3:06 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

OT: President says no to the wave

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:21 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Good man.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

he’s just evaluating the psychology of the wave anyway: groupthink and flock mentality in action.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Where is his Birth Cerficate?!?!?!

We are talking about Xanthan, correct?

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Couldn’t you just look at his serial number and tell when he was born?

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS HIS REAL SERIAL NUMBER!?!??!?

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 39%

Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.

by daveinexile on Jun 21, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Best Executive decision he’s made.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jun 21, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did he hire Kurt Russell

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jack Burton?

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was at this game and sat there with the same look on my face

by DFARowand on Jun 21, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

/thought bubble
“LOL 2012!!”
/though tbubble

WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience

by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 21, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Afraid wave has oil

Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher?

by tobias on Jun 22, 2010 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sabean is a terrible GM

I mean, even when he makes a good move, he still makes it hard for me to be happy about.

Case in point: Aubrey Huff. He has clearly been worth all 3M he got. That said, he freely admitted that the Giants were the only only team to offer him a deal. So we probably could’ve had him for 1M and used the remaining 2M to get a 5th starter or improve the bullpen.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 3:33 PM PDT reply actions  

could’ve yes. but that is no guarantee that we would have. that’s game the GMs and agents play when negotiating the deals. we were the only team to offer him one up to that point. i bet if we hadn’t, someone else would’ve later.

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

This

Could have also included a cheap club option, but sabean instead went with the “one year stop gap” notion, even though he’ll probably end up re-signing huff and paying nearly twice as much as his current contract. As grant says above, sabean has no fucking clue about offense. He went after ryan garko last year because of his average, dingerz, and RBI’s on the INDIANS thinking he’d be a “great middle of the order slugger” for the giants. He went after freddy sanchez thinking he’d have a speedy lead off hitter who gets on base a lot and hits for a high average. When in truth sanchez is a great #2 slap hitter with solid pitch recognition and hits for a good average and to the opposite field, but hes’ hardly a speedy lead off hitter like sabean envisioned. I’m not sure what brian sabean was thinking when victor martinez was rotting on the trade market, clearly he didn’t wanna offend bengie with someone who’s a better first basemen than was a catcher. So sabean ignored victor martinez and figured he’s trash and no one will take him, so the red sox got him for 75K and a PTBNL.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

How do you know he didn't try to include a "cheap club option" but Huff said "I'm good enough to take my chances"?

Show me your eviidence regarding Sanchez. I never heard anyone say he was a speedy leadoff hitter. I remember the Sabean press conference right after the singing, where sabean said they saw him as a protypical #2 hitter; a guy who can put the ball in play and play great defense.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Jun 21, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which, among other things . . .

. . . shows how bizarre the average, traditional by-the-book baseball man’s idea of a good #2 batter is.

Professional baseball analyst since 1980.

by owlcroft on Jun 21, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Shift-A
Giving Brian Sabean credit where credit is due.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn

by 49er16 on Jun 21, 2010 3:41 PM PDT reply actions  

OT:This why ESPN is fucking retarded

Main story on espn.com’s baseball page

Yankees clarify policy on visits by Lady Gaga

Seriously? That is fucking pathetic NO ONE CARES ABOUT SOME HERMAPHRODITE IN THE YANKEE’S CLUB HOUSE, LOL NATIONAL MEDIA.

Seriously, what a fucking joke. Has this what baseball media has come to?

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 3:45 PM PDT reply actions  

hermaphrodite? proof?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Link?

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't read the article because I don't care about auto-tuned "musicians"

But if you want to let your brain bleed, feel free to read.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5307886

This is not news, this is something no one cares about, THIS SHOULD NOT BE ON ESPN!

But then again, it’s espn after all where anything involving the yankee’s, red sox, or phillies is urgent breaking news and should be shoved in your face like its a must read.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, so keep that shit off, but hermaphrodite? no proof to that bull

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

psst

I was making a joke from an earlier sub-thread

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

No proof, just talkin shit

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

understood. but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, some chicks are just made differently i guess… everybody’s different… /getting this whole image out of my head

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

OT: Super pumped for this royals nationals match up this afternoon

CAN’T WAIT LIVO IS THE MAN!

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 4:09 PM PDT reply actions  

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2010_06_21_kcamlb_wasmlb_1

For any of you interested in intense espn approved baseball

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Strasburg update
Here’s how Stephen Strasburg’s tentative schedule looks headed to the All-Star break, based on what manager Jim Riggleman said this afternoon:

Strasburg will pitch Wednesday against the Royals, Monday against the Braves and next Saturday (July 3) against the Mets. Riggleman said Strasburg would get an extra day’s rest before his final start of the season’s first half. That means he will likely pitch July 9 against the Giants, not July 8 against his hometown Padres.

Which means that if the rotation holds up, Cain will face him.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 4:17 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL just what the doctor ordered

Cain’d

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not worried. Seems like the Giants do well against aces and get dominated by #5 starters.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was thinking the same thing. Oswalt, Halladay, Wainwright, Marcum, Ubaldo

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Poor Cain.

:(

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

17 k’s

Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE

by CB30 on Jun 21, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

What?

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jon Paul Morosi suggests the parties are talking … but only in a non-serious way:

The Giants have interest in Royals outfielder David DeJesus, two major league sources said, but it doesn’t appear that the clubs are engaged in serious talks.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh please no...

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it’s more likely that Schierholtz gets a ticket out of town

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

sadly this.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

doubt it, probably WERE but not ARE

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOLWUT

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Source?

And a marginal upgrade over anything we have, if that

Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE

by CB30 on Jun 21, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

If it’s Rowand for DeJesus, I’m all for it.

by Natto on Jun 21, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I may not like Sabean

but he is far superior to Dayton Moore.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would hug Sabes

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe I’m being too optimistic, but I like it. We are targeting an underrated player on a team that has a GM that manages to probably be stupider than ours. Maybe we could steal him. I see this as an “acquire talent first, ask questions later” type of thing.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

PS

According to Cot’s, he has a below-market club option for 2011, so he wouldn’t even be a rental. David DeJesus is basically a young, cheap Randy Winn.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep-6 Million IIRC

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good call — he’s actually an awful lot like Winn at the time we acquired him. If we can get him for the equivalent of Foppert & Torrealba, it’s a steal.

by Evan on Jun 21, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sosa and Jax

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

This works, too.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

His .400 OBP would look might nice in SF.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whiteside and Henry Sosa!

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

How about Runzler and Schierholtz?

by Evan on Jun 21, 2010 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

ATTENTION EVERYONE

I would just like to point out that I have been personally mentioned in Section 312’s latest front page post over on the SBNation Manchester United page, The Busby Babe. So when are you guys gonna start realizing how awesome I am and appreciate me properly?

I fully expect Grant to single me out in his next blog post.

Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG

by Useful_Idiot on Jun 21, 2010 4:28 PM PDT reply actions  

No don't

Then you will start taking longer to realize things than Fabio Capello does!

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

/changes channel

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I commend you for your diligence.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

OT: more LOL ESPN

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?id=5310867

Meet the All-2014 fantasy team

Buster posey not included on the catchers list, but included in the “best of the rest” portion yet matt wieters is in the top bracket hmm…

No sandoval mentioned at 3B, but they have him under the “best of the rest” for the DH along with billy butler, mark reynolds, and brett wallance.

That’s pretty funny, I guess they put pablo in the “soon to eat himself out of playing on the field” category, yet under the 3B category they have zimmerman, wright, a-rod, and pedro alverez. LOL a-rod, espn always includes a way to suck the yankee’s when everyone knows A-rod will be done in a year or two due to no longer being on PED’s.

Timmy got mentioned in the top pitchers category, with matt cain being listed in the “best of the rest”.

What cracked me up the most was the relievers section, LOL ESPN. Check out their picks for said category, gave me some pretty hearty laughs.

RELIEF PITCHER: Jonathan Broxton (29) Drew Storen (26) and Daniel Bard (28).

Best of the rest: Neftali Feliz (25), Joakim Soria (29), Joba Chamberlain (LOL THE FAT KID JOBA HYPE WILL NEVER END LOL 6 ERA) (28), Craig Kimbrel (25) and Carlos Marmol (31).

I find it down right pathetic that brian wilson was completely ignored, he’s got a way better future than broxton (wilson = int he best shape of any pitcher in the majors). Clearly wilsons save efficiency being 3rd best in the MLB the last 3 seasons (behind mo rivera and franky rodriguez).wasn’t impressive, kids just a lucky scrub.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 4:32 PM PDT reply actions  

Curious why you claim Wilson has a way better future than Broxton.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Broxton = 6’4 295

Wilson = 6’1 195

According to my uncle who’s a hardcore dodger fan and has a few friends that scout for the teams minor league teams, broxton has gained a ton of weight since the end of 2009 and signing his extension. He’s listed at 6’4 295 on his player page on espn, but over the weekend my uncle was saying he’s up around 330 now and its god the dodgers management worried long term. Granted that could be all bullshit speculation by scouts, but judging on wilsons extremely superior psychical conditioning and the strides he’s made each season I view him as the better choice in 2014 where as I see broxton jamarcus’ing it.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

And what is the correlation between being

ripped and the ability to be a quality stopper?

It seems to me that over the years I have seen plenty of fat, out-of-shape pitchers and it didn’t seem to have an effect on them.

by nofreetime on Jun 21, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

cheeseburgeR?

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m sick of Matt Wieters

Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG

by Useful_Idiot on Jun 21, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Me too. I kicked him out of pokemonz.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’d probably trade Posey for Wieters

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can’t agree with you there. Maybe if they toss in Markakis

Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE

by CB30 on Jun 21, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

They can keep him, actually.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Banned

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would not.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

FUCK NO.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Me too.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Banned

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK, this is getting out of hand.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

On second thought

After looking at his numbers, I think I wouldn’t. But it’s at least close.

His minor league numbers were just as good as Posey’s, and scouts loved his bat more than Posey’s. Plus, he’s already a very good defensive catcher, which Posey hasn’t proven to be (obviously he was never given a shot). But he really hasn’t hit well in any way in the majors.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s not like Buster’s defensive acumen is totally unknown. Dude threw out 40-something percent of baserunners in the minors.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

True, but that’s only a part of being a catcher.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

But the rest is easily observable, right? I mean, other than the GAME CALLING.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have to wonder what the deal with his hitting in the majors so far has been because yeah, dude’s been bad. And it’s not just a case of low BABIP either. (his BABIP is low, but even if it wasn’t, his line still wouldn’t be very good.)

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

He’s swinging at fewer strikes than most batters, but chasing more balls than most. That’s weird. And not good.

His contact rate is pretty average, but his K rate is pretty high. Bad luck, maybe?

Don’t know what happened to the power.

Yeah, not much to add. He should, like, hit better.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Would it be self serving to suggest at this point that it’s difficult to come up to the majors with so little experience and handle both catching and hitting at that level? That there will be some period of adjustment?

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

There’s no doubt that it’s difficult, but I don’t know if catchers take more times to adjust to the majors than other players. Just eyeballing it, it seems to me that all the current good catchers were good from the start, except for Yadier, who was pretty damn bad for a while there.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, but I think JD’s point is that those catchers who were good from the start had more minor league experience before coming up

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm

I guess. The most comparable to Wieters And Posey is Russel Martin, who never even caught in college or high school, and caught for two years in the minors before making the majors (he also played half a year at 3B in the minors). And he was great from the start. I don’t know what to make of that.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

SIRM had 303 games caught in 4 seasons between 2003 and 2006 according to BB-Ref… my feeling is that bringing a guy up with fewer than around 200 games caught is rushing things.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

But, like I said, before that he hadn’t caught a single game in either high school or college.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, he didn’t start catching until age 20 apparently… I suspect that’s about the same age Buster donned the tools of ignorance.
I think 4 years is an acceptable apprenticeship. Even if you knock off the first 100 professional games to stand in for a college career and you still have a couple of hundred… I only brought it up because Wieters is the exception to my ‘even Johnny Bench needed 200 games in the minors’ mantra.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

What would you do now, though? Posey’s not going to learn to catch by not catching, but it’s probably too late to send him back to the minors. Just let him catch in the majors and hope it works out?

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps the Sabean way is the right way afterall! Let the bat develop at 1st base, and then switch him back to catching when the bat is ready.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder how many players spent an entire year playing a different position and then went back to being catchers.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cartega01.shtml

Here’s one, kinda. It’s hard to find players like that.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I totally can’t picture Gary Carter as an outfielder.

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is a good question. I think if he’s going to be the catcher of the future, he should be catching 5 games a week wherever he is… but I also think it may be detrimental to to his long term development to do that at the major league level. I also think it’s unfair to expect him to be the offensive spark that will make the Giants a viable playoff contender.
It’s why I was unhappy when they brought him up, even though I really like him as a player.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's a lot closer than others are making it

plus Wieters’ power potential > Posey’s

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

srsly

The dude was rated as a better prospect than Joe Mauer-He’ll end up being a very good player

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well

There this guy, called Delmon Young…

Wieters is (and always was) a high upside/low downside guy with the bat. Lots of power potential, some contact issues, and not clear whether the walks are because of actual patience or minor league pitchers pitching around him (right now it’s looking like the latter). He could bust, and he could be the best player in the majors.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it’s obviously too early to say with Wieters, but merely being a top prospect doesn’t mean he’s going to reach his potential.

On the other hand, his minor league numbers were obviously always much better than Delmon’s.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also

Wow, Delmon Young is only 24 years old.

And he’s having a pretty nice year so far.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

True

however there were some question marks with Delmon (Walk rate, maturity) and I don’t remember too many question marks with Wieters.

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, I hear ya. It’s just that Buster is OURS, and if the difference is negligible, then it’s better just to stick with the guy that we’ve already fallen for like little school girls.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that's a good point

At the same time, shouldn’t we trade our first baseman of the future for a good young catcher?

/facepalm

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 21, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you need to not worry so much about what ESPN says

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

PSA

Mayhaps avoid Pete’s this Saturday -

Pre Game: The Bay Area Red Sox Nation (BARSN) Meetup Group is co-hosting pre-game festivities with RSN CA Gov Karen Doherty. We’ve booked the Cooperstown Room (downstairs) at Pete’s Tavern from 1-4 pm. Pete’s Tavern is across the street and within shouting distance of AT&T Park.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 4:37 PM PDT reply actions  

SFPete?

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, that’s a given.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

you guys never come over!

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s because you are always hanging out with those BARSN sonsabitches!

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

they probably appreciate Bill Mueller at least.

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

/Doug Mirabelli flashes his ring

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

God

There will be pink hats and stupidity everywhere.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who's a wicked pissah?

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh god, they'll be shouting?

RED SAWX NATION WOOOOOO

Kevin Pucetas: well, he's not Todd Wellemeyer!

by Sammy Danger on Jun 21, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Continuing with the PSA...
All Red Sox fans are welcome, whether you’ve got tix to the game or not! We’ll have Sam Adams for $3, a drink special only available to Red Sox Nation in our party room! We’ll have our favorite Red Sox songs playing on the sound system! We’ll have a trivia game to test your Red Sox Nation worthiness! We’ll have awesome giveaways! And we’ll have raffle prize drawings every 30 mins!

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

jesus christ

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team

by bondslegend on Jun 21, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

This

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah?

Spell Carl Y’s last name then.
And no Googling, damn you.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yastremski?

or is it Yaz…

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 22, 2010 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yaz is the abbreviation of Yastrzemski.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 22, 2010 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ah, thanks

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 22, 2010 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

and something that will prevent more Frankenstein’s.

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond, Brian Anderson.
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jun 22, 2010 5:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sounds wicked boring!

"You can always recover from the player you didn't sign. You may never recover from the player you signed at the wrong price." --Billy Beane

"I am not an idiot."--Brian Sabean

by Sabean's_Folly on Jun 21, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Eh. I’d probably go for the cheap Sam Adams. Adamzes. Whatever.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

SWeeeeet CarOline….

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

On loop

For eternity

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

If I hear “Shipping up to Boston” ever again, I’m gonna cut somebody’s head off

Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG

by Useful_Idiot on Jun 21, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like the Red Sox but HATE the Red Sox Nation shit.

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 21, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I still do like the Red Sox a little, but good gravy, I hate about 99.9% of their fans.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I guess we have to burn it down.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait, Red Sox fans have official fan clubs that the call _ Red Sox Nation? And they have a Governor of the California club? LOL what losers.

Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!

by say hey nation on Jun 22, 2010 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol @ bay area natives being red sox “fans”.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 4:44 PM PDT reply actions  

Jim Rice was my favorite player in the late 1970’s so bite me.

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 21, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

SHIFT-AYYYYYY

sup?

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 4:45 PM PDT reply actions  

Sup bro?

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don’t forget to tip your waiter.

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was the thread that inspired me to just shift-A rather than actually skim the comments!

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I enough experience from Pokemon subthreads that I can Z through those at peak efficiency.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

lulz, I didn’t even see this comment before I posted.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

TIP YOUR DAMN WAITER

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

rabble
SABES
rabble
TIPS
rabble
SAWX

Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE

by CB30 on Jun 21, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rabble Rabble

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

rabble
LOL CENTRAL VALLEY
rabble

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

YOU’RE JUST TRYING TO POINT PEOPLE TO YOUR VICTORY!

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I AM A VICTOR. OF COURSE I’M POINTING IT TO PEOPLE.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Victor Frankenstein is also a Victor. Will Victor be pointer it to people?

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pointer?

I’m a Lab man meself.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Those white overcoats are pretty snazzy

WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience

by Lars The Wanderer on Jun 22, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

CENTRAL VALLEY BLOWS! ur lucky i'm doing homework right now

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL the Valley does suck.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Meh, it's not bad

you’re pretty close to Yosemite and fishing and going up to Shaver lake

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Eh, yeah. There’s that. But otherwise, it’s got nothing.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, Dad's gonna be living up in Chico, so i probably will be back and forth

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ah, yeah. I haven’t heard a lot of bad things about the valley north of Sacramento, so there might be some cool stuff there.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, my step brother has been talking alot about how awesome it is, like going on the lake and just hanging out and drinking, even just going to the bars, and it just sounds alot better than here in Moraga, since there are NO bars here, same with Fresno

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, someone I know is going to Chico State this fall. He went to visit this week and he says he likes it up there, so I’m guessing it’s a hell of a lot better than Fresno.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's really kinda like Fresno, but ALOT better i've heard

i kinda want to go up there and check it out myself

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hm, really? So Chico’s basically a better version of Fresno, then. I’d like to go up there one day.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

yea, that's what i've heard, so i'll have to check it out!

since my Dad’s going to go live up there

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, definitely check it out. And lemme know what it’s like up there, if you don’t mind.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

It gets danged hot in Chico.
“I want to go to a party school!!! CHICO STATE!!!!”

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hah, I think that’s why this one guy I know decided to go to Chico State.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I remember road trips up there with the soccer team. When we played Chico it was our only overnight trip, imagine both the mens and women’s teams staying in Chico overnight.

They have something called, I think, Pioneer Days? Infamous, back then anyways, for it’s alcoholic frivolities.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

It must be pretty fun though regardless of the weather

people make it work

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s why a couple friends of mine flunked out of Chico State.

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jun 21, 2010 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

STILL HAVENT FLUNKED OUT OF MIAMI OHIO!!!!!

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

There’s still time.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 22, 2010 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

you should go to pete’s tavern on Saturday

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

i’ll be too busy flipping out about starting student teaching on MONDAY

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s awesome!

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

relax, it’s summer school. Just watch this 1987 classic and you’ll be fine.

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mark Harmon!!

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Like.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

ITS A TRAP!

Kyle Stratford : Brian Sabean :: Toby Flenderson : Michael Scott

by jhiat00 on Jun 21, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like the crocodile the most :)

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh also

I can now do Pokemon trading at any time

Well, when I’m at home.

But what I’m saying is I don’t have to go to the library

So we could like totally trade some Pokemans later if you want ;)

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m down for it wheneverish. I can evolve your seahorse. You want anything else?

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do you have HeartGold or SoulSilver?

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

SS, and I’m not even in Kanto. But I do have lots of Feebas.

I’m hoping I can trade with Baron sometime because I want a Growlithe to complete my teamz.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have SS too, so I guess version exclusives are out.

A Feebas would be cool though!

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like this chinchilla thing. I also kind of like the dumb look on the electric zebra.

In fact, I kind of like many of these non-starter-non-legendary designs.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Same. Except for this one, I don’t even understand what it’s supposed to be:

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

lolidontevenknow

I would also keep Zorua from evolving because I don’t like Evil Ponytail Sonic.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Zoruark’s special ability is so stupid. IT CAN MAKE ITSELF LOOK LIKE ANOTHER POKEMON! BUT IT DOESN’T CHANGE TYPES OR ANYTHING!!!

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can’t imagine the advantage…

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

does it at least get the moves? but what good is that if you’re just using them against the Pokemon, which is usually going to be resistant to moves of its own type. And what does that make it other than a glorified Ditto that can’t be used for MATING????

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

PYCHIC PIG

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jun 21, 2010 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL North Korea!

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would eat that hot dog, but I’d put moar ketchup on it first.

That picture also appears to be a visual metaphor for sex.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm

Doesn’t the hotdog usually go in the cat, though?

At least, that’s how I usually do it.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

D:

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Thehavenot just gave Jponry some Purple Row-esque vapors.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol

The christian making somebody else go D: about sex.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it’s more like, a hot dog could be sitting on the cat’s lap and she couldn’t be bothered.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

You’ve never put the hot dog in the buns that lie on top of the cat?

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s usually my observation that the buns are at the bottom.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Weird.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

This whole conversation is weird.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I blame you.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also

“Doesn’t the hotdog usually go in the cat, though?”

Most disturbing sentence ever posted on McC.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, come now

TWSS

Anyway, there’s got to have been more disturbing sentences than that.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I’ve been posting here a long time.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't forget (in case you missed it, howie)

The ice cream. It melted, I swear!

...Dr. Vader will see you now.

by lame-o on Jun 21, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

BEST line of the day!

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

This reminds me of the time that you were all, “Stop talking about lemon parties! Fewer people need to know what that means!”, and then it escalated from there.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

howie started it

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe my metaphors are all screwy

because I thought…

hmm, on second thought, I’ma leave this alone.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is the ketchup used as a lubricant?

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe we shouldn’t talk about the ketchup.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

“Who told you to put the ketchup on?”

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, PMS is a touchy subject





ahem.

I’ll ban myself, now.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow. It sure is a good thing that there are no women on the internet.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I did say that I'd ban myself

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, apparently I can't ban myself

So nevermind.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

/awaits a moderator or Grant to ban me for lulz.

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"

by thehavenot on Jun 21, 2010 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

that would be like choosing your own mode of execution—can’t have it!

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD!
mccoven diversity: Romosexuals, Velezbians, Nerb's--they're all here...

by greatgiantfan on Jun 21, 2010 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s dangerously close to a copyright infringement, there.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

do I have to read backwards further through the posts to figure out what you’re referring to?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD!
mccoven diversity: Romosexuals, Velezbians, Nerb's--they're all here...

by greatgiantfan on Jun 21, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

too much work

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD!
mccoven diversity: Romosexuals, Velezbians, Nerb's--they're all here...

by greatgiantfan on Jun 21, 2010 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just click on "UP"

It takes you to the comment being replied to.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

OT: So I've now been on McCC for exactly 1 yr

Do I get a llama, or something?

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 5:05 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh wait, NVM

I’ve only been on here for 364 days

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

NO LLAMA 4 U

Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 21, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have to wait until tomorrow at least

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

/kidnaps Gobroks llama

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh noes

My llama is gone!

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

may we interess you in a cantalope?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD!
mccoven diversity: Romosexuals, Velezbians, Nerb's--they're all here...

by greatgiantfan on Jun 21, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

he’s only starting because Edgar Renteria is made of graham crackers

>:(

Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 21, 2010 5:08 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL

You know it’s the truth, if edgAARP wasn’t on the DL more than bengies at the buffet I doubt uribe would have more than 100 AB’s.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

/checks the user name, chuckles

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

GM is like President in a way

It’s one of those high level positions in which whenever something goes wrong, you take all the blame for it, whereas whenever something goes right, you get none of the credit for it. I’m sure Sabean knew what he was getting into, and he can deal with it.

by ololo3 on Jun 21, 2010 5:15 PM PDT reply actions  

I've even given Sabean credit for the pitching

If I am going to blame him for offensive moves that possibly weren’t all his fault, I will credit him for pitching (Tim, Matt) that weren’t all his idea.

We do know that the trades were mainly his and signings predominately his, too.. And that there are tons of scouts that do the farming for him.. But you can’t hide the numbers. Since 2003 he has done absolutely nothing.. He had his chance in 2002 and has shown no sign of getting us back there besides a hot run in June..

So if the fanboys want to base their “SABEAN RULES” philosophy on a stretch in the middle of the season and negate the past 7 years of pure hell, then there’s not much I can do..

by Fire Sabean on Jun 21, 2010 5:23 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL JAYS
The Blue Jays designated Edwin Encarnacion for assignment, according to the team. The Blue Jays demoted Encarnacion, who they picked up in last summer’s Scott Rolen trade, after yesterday’s loss to the Giants.

Clearly the 2 run single and game winning homer on friday wasn’t impressive, I guess they don’t want their entire team battling the mendoza line always swigning for dingerz.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 5:24 PM PDT reply actions  

To be honest, it seems a bit odd to DFA a guy hitting like .298/.467 with a really low BABIP. Although he’s an awful defender, which probably has something to do with it.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did he make any fred lewis defensive plays in the series over the weekend? I didn’t watch the entire series in its full length.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

He’s no Chris Iannetta, but if you adjust his stats for a crazy series in Arizona where he hit 5 HRs, he’s actually only hitting .271/.321. I know this from experience since he was on my Pokemonz for a few painful weeks.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why would you, though?

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why would I adjust for kind of a flukey series? Or why would I have him on my Pokemonz?

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why would you ignore his best games?

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 21, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

To illustrate a performance split.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you took out a series where he went oh-fer, he’d probably be hitting much better!

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Jun 21, 2010 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good idea, if we throw in the 1-fers, we can eliminate like 20 of his 37 games!

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seriously though, I think the other knock on Double-E in Toronto is that he doesn’t hustle, won’t run to first, etc.. I think that and his D are a more likely reason why he got DFA’d, actually.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

and the knock on him in Cinci was that he was not clutch.

The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.

by SF Pete on Jun 21, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL Jeff Brantley

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he’s a decent hitter who can’t play any defense. Pretty Garko-ish.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jun 22, 2010 4:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

What’s sad is that the popular Lowry-for-Encarnacion trade idea still would have worked out better for us.

Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.

by rotorueter on Jun 21, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

:(

To bad we couldn’t have randomly traded for the prospect of ryan braun back in 2006.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind taking a flier on him

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can we get a second thread please

My 1998 Dell Pentium 2 is about to melt..

by Fire Sabean on Jun 21, 2010 5:45 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL

Every new post makes my computer die inside.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can not has.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

DENIED!

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hate Sabean

but hate Bork even more!!!!

by ACgiant97 on Jun 21, 2010 7:30 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL BORK

/leaves starter in long as humanly possible

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL YANKEE'S

God a.j. burnett is terrible

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 7:30 PM PDT reply actions  

Damnit! Giants doing well enough to save SaBean's job

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD!
mccoven diversity: Romosexuals, Velezbians, Nerb's--they're all here...

by greatgiantfan on Jun 21, 2010 7:59 PM PDT reply actions  

this

It almost makes you wish we were 15 games under .500 so we didn’t have to witness another 6 year extension.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL VELEZ JUST GOT PICKED OFF.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 8:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Is there anything he doesn’t suck at?

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure that you posted that as a guess, and were right only by virtue of playing the odds.

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 21, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sure, yeah.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Compared to velez, burrell huff are perennial gold glovers.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

BUT THEY DON’T HAVE THE VROOOOOOOOOM!!!

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jun 21, 2010 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

The A’s are securing mike leake’s bid to go to the all star game.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 8:10 PM PDT reply actions  

If he doesnt go there's a problem

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 21, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

but he got hit hard by the giants, and then got hit hard by the mariners so I thought he was coming down to earth.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was the dodgers not the mariners, but after tonight’s game he’s a 100% lock for the AS, as he deserves.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

And very much deserved as well

the kid is amazing, not spending much time if any in the minors?

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am enjoying the A's radio broadcasters

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD!
mccoven diversity: Romosexuals, Velezbians, Nerb's--they're all here...

by greatgiantfan on Jun 21, 2010 8:44 PM PDT reply actions  

I like to listen to the A’s on the radio… when I can find the damn games. Those two tin cans and a string that they use don’t transmit too far.

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love ken korrack, the man was invented to do radio.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

This.

He can make a grocery list exciting.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, their radio guys are cool.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

The bay area is truly blessed with talent on the radio

49ers? Starkey, he’s gone, but now Robinson, i enjoy listening to Tim Roye, bob fitzgerald, i absolutely love Barnett. Giants games are the crown jewel, A’s broadcasts with Korrack, as well as Fosse and what used to be back in the day with King. It’s been amazing, even Lon

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Starkey

/raves like a maniac

/loses voice

"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff

by howtheyscored on Jun 22, 2010 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

/remembers 49ers vs. Giants game

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

UCLA v TCU game finally got interesting

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond, Brian Anderson.
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jun 21, 2010 8:46 PM PDT reply actions  

Gerrit Cole was dominant

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 22, 2010 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Until he left some pitches up in the 7th

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond, Brian Anderson.
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jun 22, 2010 5:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

UCLA has a played named Uribe. Giants will have to eventually sign him.

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 22, 2010 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Justin Uribe is his name.

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 22, 2010 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sometimes when I'm working I forget to turn the radio off at 7 o clock

I seriously cannot believe that there are people who like FP Santangelo

Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG

by Useful_Idiot on Jun 21, 2010 9:20 PM PDT reply actions  

people listen to his show?

Ever since damon stopped working the 7-10 slot and went to 1050 I stopped listening to that spot.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really thought there couldn’t be somebody who got on my nerves more than Damon Bruce. I was wrong. Thanks, FP.

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jun 21, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL A'S

Poor bailey, geren sent him out there for the L.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:27 PM PDT reply actions  

Man, the Grizzlies cannot get the final out of this inning.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Hinshaw: still not a good pitcher. Good gravy.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow

Fresno is 10.5 games in first place.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep. Biggest lead by any team in the PCL and last I checked, they had the best record in all of AAA.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whom or WHAT is exactly driving this team?

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Decent pitching, a quarter of a team with guys who should be playing in the bigs, a good manager?

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 22, 2010 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'll agree with the good manager

the “should be playing in the bigs” is suspect, but where would one put those players? I mean, it’s pretty challenging to even place those players someone on the 25 man roster. So that’s why i’d have to blame this on Decker

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, well, I don’t necessarily mean with the Giants, but there’s some guys who definitely deserve a shot to play regularly somewhere in the bigs (Bowker, for one, and then there’s Guzman). But the team’s mainly full of some AAAA guys, some journeymen and some prospects. A lot of the guys have also been on hot streaks, like Tyler Graham. On the other hand, there’s Velez, so.

But Decker does deserve a lot of the credit for putting together a good lineup.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 22, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

And I probably should’ve said 1/8th of the team or something not as big as a quarter.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 22, 2010 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, i'm sure that management knows this

and he probably should and will be the next manager, he’s in the running for that position. Who knows, it could be the coaching that causes these kids to not play up to what they’ve been doing in the minors. Or just the talent

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, absolutely. I mean, there could be lots of different reasons why they don’t play as well when they’re called up. But there’s also got to be someone doing something right in Fresno that gets them to play to their potential. From what I’ve read, a lot of the team credits Decker to being that guy that pushes them to play better.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 22, 2010 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Aces have had 13 men up to bat in this inning alone. Holy fuck.

And just when they think they’re out of it, Boyer looked like he was off the bag when he caught the ball.

Now Decker’s been ejected. Damn.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now a 10 run inning for Reno. Why the fuck am I still watching this.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ew.

Switch over the classic Giants. Good Affeldt is pitching.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

/switches to CSN-BA.

I miss good Affeldt.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Me too.

LOL FAIL BUNT

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Very nice play by Affeldt there.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

And so that torture finally ends after the Aces scored 11 runs, 10 runs coming in with 2 outs. /facepalm

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dunno if this has been mentioned before.

But CSNBA is showing the Renteria Slam game right now.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:30 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL SPEAK OF THE DEVIL
HIGH DRIVE, LEEEEEEEFT FIELD……OUTTA HERE!

RENTERIA WITH A GRAND SLAM!

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

One of the greatest kuip calls in recent non bonds giant history.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

"THE WALK TO BONDS DIDN'T WORK!"

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 22, 2010 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

and i saved the video of it too

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hey, it’s Classy!

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha

He hits a squibber up the middle afterward.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was at that game, I recall epic bullpen heroics and a good jose valverde impression by affeldt.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Classy steal there.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

And now he’s got a classy steal!

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pablo walked!

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh man its Garko

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I seriously forgot he was with the team then.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because of at bats like that?

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that could be it.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL big time deadline trade piece

/Sabean’d

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

So awesome.

That strike 2 pitch is nigh unhittable.

I hope he comes back to us this year. Cause we are stuck with him.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL FRANCISCO CORDERO

Terrible.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:30 PM PDT reply actions  

AZ v. NY

No, Dan Schulman, “activity in the Diamonbacks’ bullpen” is not the scariest thing people in Arizona can hear right now. That’s “show me your papers.”

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 9:42 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL ESPN

It’s been a 3 hour broadcast of aaron boone defending the yankee’s and pretending they are at a disadvantage.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

How did he get a job there?

He is terrible. I cannot stand listening to him. Why don’t that have Nomar doing more games? I have only seen him on the CWS but he is actually pretty good.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nomar is great

I think dan schulman is their best play by play man besides john miller as well. I don’t know why this rat fuck aaron boone has a job, probably because he hit some random homer off tim wakefield and thats about it.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

This

Dan Schulman is fantastic.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

He got a job with ESPN because he used to play baseball.

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jun 21, 2010 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

So did I.

I want a job at ESPN so I can talk with the corpse of Curt Schilling.

They would probably have to censor most of my conversation with him.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

But you didn’t play for the YANKEES!!

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jun 21, 2010 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

ACTUALLY I DID

And the Red Sox.

Little League was fun.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well played, scout6.

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jun 21, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nomar is “meh”.

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 21, 2010 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of course that does depend on your perspective.

It could also be “Your benefits have been terminated.”

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not hot:

Friends with terminated benefits

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow

11 run inning for Reno now.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:48 PM PDT reply actions  

It was ugly.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

WOW JOEY VOTTO

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:49 PM PDT reply actions  

Joey is fucking awesome, this is exactly why i think the Reds are a damn good team

him, and Phillips, still waiting on Bruce

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Stubbs & Heisey have a chance to be good as well

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 22, 2010 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Stubbs i agree, and Heisey is a dude i absolutely have no clue about, i do know however that Gomes has BAY AREA TIES, and is also doing pretty OK in my opinion

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Gomes is solid

I wish the Giants had signed him last offseason. Heisey was rated as the Reds #5 (I think) prospect by BA

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 22, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

/chasm with gomes. But wow, being rated that high in the Reds org is saying something, since they have a pretty decent farm

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

WOW SCOTT ROLEN

LOL ATHLETICS

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:50 PM PDT reply actions  

LOLonely A's fan who caught the HR.

He was very excited.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL A'S

Wow a bullpen implosion so brutal that even affeldt and romo are shaking their heads right now.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:51 PM PDT reply actions  

Fuck you Laynce Nix and your shitty way of spelling your name.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:52 PM PDT reply actions  

By the wa...what ever happened to Cla?

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)

by victor frankenstein on Jun 21, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dunno,

But apparently Lance stole his “y”

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Traded to the Orioles for Oscar Salazar

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 22, 2010 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

He and his brother both have superflous "Y's" in the middle of their name

Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster

by Gobroks on Jun 22, 2010 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

LOL RAJAI

A move Fred Lewis would be proud of.

This game is getting comical.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:52 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL ROWAND

My god that was awful, he manny’d and acted like it was gone LOL this is a joke.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

In fairness

It looked like it was gone. I could have sworn it would be. Even Fosse thought it.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought it was WAY gone, apparently the marine layer slaughtered it because it fell at the edge of the track.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe that's why Rajai dropped it

He was so surprised it landed in his glove.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha,

No one left at the Colosseum now.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure

I think there was only about 2000 to begin with and it looks the same as a few hundred.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL Brad Hawpe

(back to classic Giants)

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:56 PM PDT reply actions  

Whoa

Rowand walked in this game. LAYING OFF A SLIDER, NO LESS. This game was a miracle.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL WHITESIDE HIT ON THE FIRST PITCH

After an 0-3 day with 3Ks

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

seriously

No wonder this is a classic game, shit that will never happen again from many players on our team occurred.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha,

Now they are trotting out Ryan Rohlinger and Velez.

I do not remember how this turns out.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL YANKEE'S

susan waltman is so stupid, I don’t understand how the biggest franchise in baseball can have such a joke employed on its radio station.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 9:58 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL Cordero

Gets a 4 run lead then immediately walks the first two batters.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:01 PM PDT reply actions  

summons his inner mota

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whoa

Rohlinger! 2 RBI single. Wow what a game.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:03 PM PDT reply actions  

I was there, when I watched the DVR later I was pumped at how amped up kuip was, he deserves more things to be excited about.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

This reds bullpen is LOL

If the A’s manage to come back this is truely a testament to failure.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:05 PM PDT reply actions  

WOW Velez.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 21, 2010 10:06 PM PDT reply actions  

He is awful

I’m not sure what ESPN see’s in him, even yankee fans dont like him.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Francisco cordero is on pace to be the 2010 Lidge

Although Qualis is also up for the honor, but he pitches for a awful team.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Well he pitches for a awful team

Qualis only has 4 blown saves, but then again he has a 8.88 ERA. He’s not really a big time “closer” though, where as cordero is a well payed closer on a contender. Cordero is 17 for 22 while qualis is 12 for 16. Qualis has 10 less IP than cordero and has a LOT worse stats but he’s on a MLD deal and some random trash where as cordero is supposed to be an “all star”.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow, that shut me up.

I probably should’ve at least GLANCED at a stats page first… thanks for that.

by Every6thDay on Jun 21, 2010 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Looking at cordero’s career stats good god he’s had some HORRIBLE years. He has 2 different years where he’s blown double digit saves with less than 35 chances LOL.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I still do not know why Qualls is a closer.

He has none of the ability or makeup of a closer.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know, I don’t know why they waited to long to use heilman as the closer. He’s the only reliever on that team with a pulse and is pretty good, to bad we can’t get him.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Earlier today, MLB Network did a show on current team and individual stat leaders. Giants lead the majors in team saves.

Also, if anyone is up at 1:30 AM tonight. MLB Network is showing “San Francisco Giants: Inside the Clubhouse”. This one says it’s about the 10 year anniversary of the ball park with members from the 2000 team.

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 21, 2010 10:28 PM PDT reply actions  

nice, I’ll have to tivo that. I thought they only did one of those, I saw the one they had during spring training.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Instead of staying up till 1:30, you can just watch online -
http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?topic_id=7964484&c_id=sf

I was at the 10th anniversary game and am still bummed that the rain washed out the on-field festivities.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah I was there to, I was amazed that game ended up happening. I went out to my car at 3pm and it was pouring rain and howling wind harder than it had been all day. Somehow there was a clearing period and the the giants scored runs, timmy was awesome besides the mcaan mammoth bomb.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I too was at the game

And likewise upset the rain ruined the reunion plans. It did end up being an awesome game though.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

That it was. The best part about it to me was how many people stuck around, through the cold, the rain, the – what was it, the golf tournament on the giant screen?

Second best part was watching the douche in the Dodgers gear get thrown out of the park.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah the golf tournament.

I saw two people get thrown out. The Dodgers guy and some drunk dude in Atlanta gear near my section.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

We were there too. We stayed at the park through the whole damn delay. The best part was at the end when all hell broke loose and it started pouring again, right as the last out was recorded. It was magic inside!

Don't get it?
Try FAQ or FAQII

by Merope on Jun 21, 2010 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL, I forgot about that! That was pretty awesome.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah final out, then boom! Downpour.

It was a pretty terrific game. Panda had a bomb that went even further then McCanns

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

The guy who sat behind the visitor dugout, right? Yeah, I had a pretty good look at him.

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was a section or two over from him.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope the bum enjoyed the Heyward HR, he couldn’t have had more than 10 seconds to gloat before he was escorted out. :)

They could be Giants...but not really.

by esseffgeez on Jun 21, 2010 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL All star voting

2nd place at 1st base in the AL…Teixeira with 1,507,769. What I don’t understand is why the Rangers are getting a lot of votes. They don’t seem to have the fan base as the big AL teams.

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 21, 2010 10:44 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL .224 average on the most stacked team in baseball. Yeah I guess them rangers have a large fan base online spammin votes, vlad and hamilton are having ridiculous years though.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only time the Giants had the top 5 voting was 2007 when SF had the game. Just about every Giant finished in the top 5 (top 15 for OF).

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 21, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

MY POKEMONZ IS NOT ENJOYING THIS

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why is the All Star game in the hands of the people if it has an impact on the world series?

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

The same type of people who put allen iverson and tracy mccgrady on the all star team this year.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 21, 2010 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

What's more interesting is that PITCHING is in fact in the hands of the coaches

why not make the position players as well? Obviously it’s just marketing, hence why i don’t watch it at all even if Giants players are in it

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 22, 2010 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is for the one person (or more) who works near the ball park

You might want to take the day off on August 19th and stay far away. American Idol will be holding auditions at AT&T Park that day. If you stick around, you might hear really bad singing.

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 21, 2010 11:00 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh dear lord.

Also they have lowered the age for auditions.

Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.

Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.

by scout6 on Jun 21, 2010 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think they might be trying to find the next Justin Bieber.

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 21, 2010 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

/emerges from feverish dreams

/notices 1,500 comments, clicks, is horrified, shift-ays, collapses back into a universe of pain.

"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.

-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler

by Alex_Lewis on Jun 21, 2010 11:40 PM PDT reply actions  

Rallye Bewb Alert

Salma’s Hayak’s are appearing on Letterman tonight. This has been a public service announcement.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD!
mccoven diversity: Romosexuals, Velezbians, Nerb's--they're all here...

by greatgiantfan on Jun 21, 2010 11:49 PM PDT reply actions  

3 games today

Two of them KC-Washington and Cincy-Oakland drew a TOTAL of 24,680 fans. The other one was because the Yankees were in town (Arizona): 47,227. Only 71,907 tickets sold for Monday. Giants will beat that for 2 games this weekend.

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 21, 2010 11:49 PM PDT reply actions  

Any official word on DeRosa

or are the Giants still “waiting for the results of the tests”?

Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden

by SFGuy on Jun 22, 2010 12:23 AM PDT reply actions  

I haven’t heard anything about it recently.

"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!

by walkoff baltimore chop on Jun 22, 2010 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

/giants make statement that rumors about mark derosa needing surgery “not true”, notes will be back soon healthy and productive “soon”.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 22, 2010 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

They'll put DeRosa on the 60-day DL

when Burriss is ready to come off the 60-day DL

by TBRMKane on Jun 22, 2010 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rob neyer gives sabean a daunting task

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/4041/is-royals-dejesus-what-the-giants-need

After reading that article, I am scared to think what the bork rotations would look like with his addition.

Also: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/statues-in-the-outfield/

LOL DODGERS

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 22, 2010 8:31 AM PDT reply actions  

It seems easy to me: Posey at catcher, Huff at first, outfield of Burrell/Torres/DeJesus, with Rowand and Schierholtz coming off the bench.

Lord knows what Bochy would do, though. “Flexibility” has been a distraction at best so far.

by Evan on Jun 22, 2010 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

This

Put DeJesus in right, but Burrell in left, shift Aubrey Huff to first, put Buster Posey at catcher, and bench Bengie Molina.

My Son, the best position player on the damn team.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients: Posey, Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres, Uribe

by GiantPain on Jun 22, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is all I'd ask for
Put DeJesus in right, but Burrell in left, shift Aubrey Huff to first, put Buster Posey at catcher, and bench Bengie Molina.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Jun 22, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

But... that makes to much sense!

How is bork supposed to make excuses for bengie and rowand when they aren’t strangle holding the line up everyday? After all, gotta have bengie and rowand in the line up so sabean can look good for the signings, when in truth he’s a retard and should go think of more mark derosa lies to attempt to brainwash fans.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jun 22, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about San Francisco Giants.
Yahoo_full_count

Manager

174246766_ea2fd78204_small Grant Brisbee

Moderators

Sbzito_small Natto

Fawlty_small WalrusMan

Goofus_small Goofus

Howtheyscoredcat_small howtheyscored

Det_7193_small jponry

Authors

09_small JT Jordan

Small steve S

E6dmccicon_small Every6thDay