minor lines, 6/20/10
by steve S on Jun 20, 2010 9:58 PM PDT
in They Might Be Giants
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PrintHighlights from the Giants' farm: Brett Pill homered among his three hits, and Madison Bumgarner had 11 K in 7.2 IP while allowing 2 ER before departing.
AAA: Fresno lost to Reno 6-4 (11 innings)
Fresno: LF John Bowker: 1 for 5, HR, SO
Fresno: 1B Brett Pill: 3 for 5, HR, SO, CS
Fresno: SP Madison Bumgarner: 7.2 IP, 5 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 2 BB, 11 K--1 E
Fresno: RP Steven Edlefsen: 0.1 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 1 ER--1 HR
With the Grizzlies' only multi-hit line in an extra inning game, Pill raised his AVG to .304. He had his 10th HR. Bowker now has 6 HRs in 14 PCL games.
Bumgarner, who had had more than 5 K just once previously this season, easily established a new season high with 11 K in his longest start of the year. He threw 111 pitches (75 strikes). One of the three runs charged to Bumgarner's record scored after Edlefsen allowed a HR to the first batter he faced. That was just the 2nd HR Edlefsen has allowed this year in 41.0 IP.
AA: Richmond lost to Altoona 6-2
Richmond: CF Darren Ford: 3 for 5, SB, CS
Richmond: SS Brandon Crawford: 1 for 2, BB, HBP, SO
Altoona: CF Gorkys Hernandez: 3 for 4, BB, CS
Richmond: SP Clayton Tanner: 6.1 IP, 7 H, 5 R, 1 ER, 5 BB, 2 K--1 IBB, 1 WP, 1 PO
Richmond: RP Ronnie Ray: 1.0 IP, 2 K
Altoona: SP Tim Alderson: 7.0 IP, 9 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 4 K--1 HB
Ford had three hits for the second straight day, raising his AVG to .248. Crawford also reached base three times, improving his OBP to .343. Hernandez, who was once traded for Edgar Renteria before being subsequently traded to the Pirates, reached base four times. His OPS remains below .650, though. His prospect status has fallen since being regarded as the Midwest League's most exciting player three years ago.
Tanner issued a season-high 5 BB in his second longest start of the year (in terms of IP). Four unearned runs dropped his W-L record 4-5 through thirteen starts. Ray had 2 K in a perfect 8th inning. After allowing 4 ER in each of his previous two starts against his former team, Alderson this time allowed just 2 ER in 7.0 IP.
A+: San Jose had the first day off their four-day all-star break
Giants on Cal League leaderboards:
--Hitters:
AVG: Belt 1st, Perez 9th
OBP: Belt 1st
SLG: Belt 3rd, Culberson 8th
HR: Belt 10th, Culberson 10th
RBI: Belt 2nd
SB: Peguero 3rd, Adrianza 6th, Belt 9th
--Pitchers:
ERA: Westcott 1st, Fitzgerald 7th
WHIP: Surkamp 3rd, Stolp 7th
K: Surkamp 8th
IP: (none)
W: Odle 1st
Sv: Stoffel 3rd
A-: Augusta lost to Savannah 9-5
Augusta: CF Evan Crawford: 1 for 5, HR, E
Augusta: C Hector Sanchez: 2 for 4, SO
Savannah: SS Wilmer Flores: 2 for 4, 2B, BB, SO
Augusta: SP Jeremy Toole: 1.2 IP, 2 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 2 BB, 0 K--1 HB
Augusta: RP Mitch Lively: 2.0 IP, 3 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 2 BB, 1 K
Augusta: RP Chris Gloor: 2.0 IP, 1 H, 1 K
Augusta: RP Jorge Bucardo: 1.0+ IP, 2 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 K
Sanchez was one of three GreenJackets with two hits, raising his AVG to .262. Crawford's 3rd HR was the GreenJackets' only XBH. Flores, who is perhaps the Mets' top prospect, had just two hits in the first three games of the series but reached base three times today.
Retiring just five of ten batters, Toole had presumably the shortest start of his pro career. Lively allowed 4 ER in long relief before he was ejected in the 4th inning. Gloor also provided long relief, just more effectively than Lively did as Gloor retired all but one batter he faced. If the box score is correct, Bucardo made just the second relief appearance of his pro career, and this appearance coming with just one day of rest. After a perfect 8th inning, he did not retire either batter he faced in the 9th inning.
ssA: Salem-Keizer lost to Everett 7-6 (10 innings)
Salem-Keizer: RF Ryan Scoma: 3 for 6, 2B
Salem-Keizer: 2B Raynor Campbell: 4 for 4, 3B, BB, CS
Salem-Keizer: SP Edwin Escobar: 5.0 IP, 3 H, 3 R, 2 ER, 3 BB, 3 K--1 HB, 1 WP, 1 BK
Campbell, the Giants' 14th rounder earlier this month, reached base in all five plate appearances. Scoma, a late round draftee a year ago who spent nearly all of last summer in the AZL, added three hits as he and Campbell combined for over half of the Volcanoes' thirteen hits.
Escobar, whom the Giants acquired from the Rangers after they selected Ben Snyder in the Rule 5 draft, made his debut in the Giants organization.
R: Scottsdale begins its season on Tuesday
DSL: The Gigantes had their usual Sunday off-day
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why send out Bucardo for a relief appearance on 1 days rest, especially when most teams are afraid to wear out their young arms?
by TimLaser and MattyC on Jun 20, 2010 10:05 PM PDT reply actions
Yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
I’m going to assume that it was a “manage like it’s the 7th game of the World Series” maneuver, as an Augusta win would have clinched a first half championship. And if my assumption is correct, than I’m saying they need to fire Machemer and not just demote him. Competition is important, but there’s no good reason to bring your best starter, a 20 year old on one day’s rest, into the 8th inning of a game you’re losing by 2 runs, to clinch a spot in the playoffs that be gained later on int he season anyway. That’s freaking rediculous.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Honestly, even if its the last day of the season you still don’t do it b/c its the fucking minors!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions
And I’m hoping his brother was promoted and this is just a mix up.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I think (hope) it was probably a mix-up in the box scores. The minor league box scores do get names and stuff mixed up every now and then, and I just couldn’t see them handling Bucardo like that. Though, if it’s true, it does add a lot of gamerness and soldiery.
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
Adopted parent of good old Wendell, he tries so hard. You'll get a hit someday son!
by theghostofjasonellison on Jun 21, 2010 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Ahhh but there is...
Suppose he has a bonus for making the post season…
This would be a dumb Sabean kind of thing to do.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
I’m not commenting on the wisdom of such a move, but the game was for the first half title, so maybe Machemer was “going for it.”
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 21, 2010 7:47 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL
Repeating AA, 9 hits in 7 innings, 4.50 ERA in pitcher’s league. I was thinking how wrong Sabean was when my .330 hitting second baseman hit that game winning HR yesterday.
Buster Posey: "I'm a catcher." Brian Sabean: "I'm an idiot."
by rxmeister on Jun 21, 2010 5:02 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
We didn’t have to trade Alderson to get Sanchez this year.
The Giants don’t fare well against pitchers.
This
that move was still fucking awful because we could have gotten more for Barnes and Alderson at the time.
That’s the point.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
that move was still fucking awful because we could have gotten more for Barnes and Alderson at the time. That’s the point.
Actually, nobody but Sabean knows whether we could’ve gotten more for Barnes/Alderson at the time. All of us thought those two were awesome prospects but maybe other teams’ GMs didn’t.
I think SF Pete’s point is that we could’ve signed Sanchez in the offseason as a free agent.
Noonan. Nooooonan!
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Jun 21, 2010 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Another point is maybe we couldn’t have ever gotten anything better than what we did for either one being that they aren’t very good prospects. Both are struggling in AA, and that’s in repeating the league this year.
Sure, Barnes isn’t doing so well overall, but he does have 10 K/9, and his HR rate against LHH is oddly high for a LHP. I would love to have him back in the system, and not just because he was pointlessly given away for Ryan F. Garko.
Alderson? Meh.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 21, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice to see Bumgarner tell some Aces to STFD
I like Clayton Tanner, but he is walking too many guys.
I think Bowker is gonna be like the AAA version of Belt
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
So Belt will never get a chance at a higher level?
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Go MadBum!!
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jun 20, 2010 10:45 PM PDT reply actions
I spoke to someone who was at the game, but it’s hard to tell seeing as the Fresno radar gun has a mind of it’s own.
Anyway the radar gun there is retarded. It had him at 90 alot of the time, but also had im in the 50’s alot and a few times 99. But i was right behind homeplate and he threw pretty hard. Ive heard people say Cain’s 91 looks more like 95 and thats what Bum seemed like, imo.
STRIKEOUTS
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Does steve receive any sort of compensation for his work?
He does more than that lazy overlord of ours.
Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jun 20, 2010 11:24 PM PDT reply actions
thats great that mad bum is starting to pile up thBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
McCovey Chronicles - The repetition is awesome. Proud Adoptive Parent of BRETT PILL.
READ MY BLOG!!!!
by sadison bummedgarner on Jun 20, 2010 11:33 PM PDT reply actions
What is he piling up?
Are you talking about his stBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
by Artimus Clyde on Jun 21, 2010 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Anybody know why Neal has been limited to pinch-hitting duties the past few games?
.277/.399/.518 out of a shortstop?!
Keep on, keepin' on, Ryan Cavan
Thanks. Hope it’s not too serious…didn’t he have shoulder surgery a few years back? Then again, if he’s available for pinch-hitting, he’s probably alright.
.277/.399/.518 out of a shortstop?!
Keep on, keepin' on, Ryan Cavan
I read that as "Soldier Injury"
LULZ
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
Because he's not real
/hides from jponry
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
bite your tongue!
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 21, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Bumgarner says he feels like he is getting better with each outing.
“It’s always nice to come back and end up pitching a pretty good game after you get a little roughed up in the first,” Bumgarner said. "I really feel like it’s a night-and-day difference, the way I’m pitching now compared to the beginning.
“I’ve got four pitches now that I can throw for strikes. Before, it was just fastball and slider, and the slider wasn’t that good. I’m a completely different pitcher.”
Read more: http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/06/20/1977928/bumgarner-strong-in-grizzlies.html#ixzz0rTBYC65K
by TimLaser and MattyC on Jun 21, 2010 12:19 AM PDT reply actions
The last part of that quote is pure awesome.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Jun 21, 2010 12:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Another selection from the "Mad Bum On Horses" collection
by Natto on Jun 21, 2010 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I like those Unis, I also liked the John Deere unis they wore last year
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I like this guy
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
I think the Giants like what they’re seeing too. Sabean said yesterday that he’s an untouchable.
Buster Posey: "I'm a catcher." Brian Sabean: "I'm an idiot."
by rxmeister on Jun 21, 2010 5:21 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Madbum and Posey for Hanley Ramirez, though?
It’s a deal you’d have to consider, n’est pas?
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Jun 21, 2010 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I would have done that last year.
But not today. Maybe I am being influenced too much by Ramirez’s so-so (at least by his standards) production this year. Or maybe Posey’s dominance in his first 3 weeks is shining a blinding light.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
I'm with you
a great hitting catcher (even if that’s not where they’re playing him) is better than a great hitting SS who isn’t THAT great on defense.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Although both are premium positions to have a hitter no doubt
I’d still rather have the catcher. And MadBum could be back to being legit
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
deal-sterbation bores me
is there any evidence this deal is on the table? no. then who cares? head-of-a-pin analysis is for seminarians who’re forbidden to date girls or masturbate their cares away.
It's still interesting to think about
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Its like your car, you dream up all of the mods you can do (but probably never would) just b/c its fun.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Some people like masturbation more than analysis.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
You never pepper your life with self amusement
aside from Onanism…
Some people choose to do it here. Does that bother you?
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
most people masturbate in private or at sex clubs
creepy guys rubbing themselves on BART kinda bug me, I admit
When I said self amusement I was attmepting to transition the conversation from
the sexual spectrum. You took previous comments about “deal-sturbation” and wrapped them in a sexual context. It seems your having trouble dissociating baseball themes from sexual ones.
I said “self amusement” meant in a broader sense. Most people do stuff besides analysis and masturbation but that seems to be all you can focus on.
So I’ll ask the question more clearly, do you ever do stuff for fun? Like ride bikes, tell jokes, visit with friends, or are strictly spread sheets and bed sheets?
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 21, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Because for some people fun is posting creative thoughts
about the roster or acquisitions.
Sure I understand that an over abundance is annoying but here and there it seems tolerable and your intolerance is stifling my mojo.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 21, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Are you actually suggesting that Posey could be anywhere near the hitter Hanley is?
I was promised lasagna.
Yeah, I’m not really sure why you wouldn’t trade them for Hanley.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Fun fact:
Ramirez WAR: 2.2
Uribe WAR: 1.9
Molina WAR: 0.2
at this point we need a catcher a lot more than a SS
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
And I know that that doesn't take having a great hitting SS for years to come into account
but Ramirez is pretty bad on defense. So IDK. His hitting makes up for it but I’d still be wary of giving up our 2 best prospects for anyone.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
OR a great hitting catcher.
Also, am I the only one here who thinks Posey could be a George Brett, Scott Rolen, Ryan Zimmerman kind of 3B. Clearly you want him producing at C, but to help preserve him, I’d rather see him getting his reps at 3B rather than 1B. Pablo is now obese and should be moved to 1B. He’s got no future at 3B unless he dramatically changes his diet/lifestye. Operation Panda was a success, but operation winter league in Venezuela was a total failure.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
C is more valuable than 3B
why would you ever move a good defender down the defensive spectrum? if the team wants to rest Posey’s legs, put him at first every fifth game.
One thing about the positional spectrum
Does it really matter unless you are a very strong team offensively?
Was this the type of strategy that influenced the AJ trade? All we heard from Sabean about that deal was, “.300 hitting catcher” Well when your RF is the Mohr, Tucker, Hammonds triumverate does it really matter if your catcher can hit .290? It would be a sound strategy for a team that is relatively strong in the corner spots to then try to upgrade CF, SS, and C, but if your corner OF is Schierholtz and Velez, why does it matter if your C is Posey? I guess it’s easier to add guys in the corners but, with the GM we have, attempting to acquire strength in the corners has not ever happened with the exception of BLB, who basically forced Sabean’s hand by only wanting to play in SF.
That said, I want to see Posey at C primarily. I just was thinking that his days at 1B should be spent at 3B, because, A) his defenese is wasted at 1B, and B) because Pablo has gone from decent to below average at 3B and I don’t see that situation improving without a major lifestyle change for Pablo.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
yes, defense matters
I am surprised I have to explain this to Cody Ransom, of all people.
What on earth makes you think Sandoval has gone from decent to below-average, anyway? Both my eyes and the limited defensive metrics we have say exactly the opposite.
Of course defense matters…
But when you are trading off a strong catcher for a weak LF is there really a difference, defense being equal? Not trying to argumentative here. Really asking the question to someone who probably knows more about it than I do.
And as for Sandoval, you probably have seen him more than I have, so I will defer. I wasn’t ready to trust 100 games of UZR this year. From what I understand UZR is more effective when considering a bigger multi-year picture.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 21, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
But when you are trading off a strong catcher for a weak LF is there really a difference, defense being equal?
Yes, because the weak hitting catcher you’ll get to replace him is going to be even worse. The catcher version of Velez is a much worse hitter than Velez.
I was promised lasagna.
Okay we aren't comparing apples and oranges then.
What it seems to me you are saying is, that the C who produces the same relative offense for his position is a much worse hitter than the LF who produces at the level of Velez relative to all LF
What I am saying is if your roster has multiple holes in it, and you can only afford to fill one of those holes, why does it matter where he plays?
Until your lineup has few holes, positional relevance doesn’t seem to be all that important, unless you have the ability through payroll or system to improve at will.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 21, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
because 'where he plays' directly affects cost
An above-average bat playing a premium defensive position is going to cost you a lot. If all you want is an immobile slugger, you can pick up Pat Burrell from the scrap heap for league minimum.
But you’re defining all bad players as “holes” which makes it sound like they’re all the same, which they’re not.
Schierholtz and Ishikawa are still much better hitters than Molina and Whiteside, even if they’re all “holes”. The difference between Posey+Schierholtz and Posey+Molina is huge.
I was promised lasagna.
Cody
Give up now. They can’t hear you when you talk like that.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
yes, uzr is deeply limited
Sandoval is never going to be Zimmerman over there, but he’s looked a lot more solid to me this season than last.
you always care about defense because it directly affects your ability to hold down opponent runs. Giants pitchers have the best BABIP allowed in the majors for a reason: for all management’s flaws, they put a decent-fielding team on the field. defense matters.
Or every sixth.
It’s been figured out and posted (more than once).
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
What I gather from this
You expect him to hit for a ton of power, even though nobody does, and you also think he’s a gold glove 3B. Why?
I was promised lasagna.
Ton of power?
My expectation is that he will regularly slug over .500 and in some seasons extend that a bit to the mid .500’s. I don’t ever expect him to reproduce what Brett did in 1980, but the rest of Brett’s career on the offensive side is about what I would hope for from Posey, 20-25 HR, 40ish 2B, a hand full maybe as many as a dozen triples. Rolen hit more than 26 HR 4 times, and only two of those times did he hit more than 30 and only once slugged better than .551. Zimmerman, had a great year last year with 33 HR, 37 2B but only 3 3B. He slugged .525. I think Posey could produce a similar number of bases, but with fewer HR and more 3B and perhaps a few more 2B.
Sure this is lofty expectations for a guy we have seen so little of, and maybe his last 25 AB’s are affecting your perception, but the guy has been a freaking dynamo at every level he has ever played at and is showing nothing less in the big leagues.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 21, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
He didn’t actually hit for that much power in AAA. And the PCL is a hitters’ league. And scouts agree that he’s not going to hit for a lot of power.
Also, he hasn’t hit that well in the majors. The sample is pretty meaningless anyway, but since you brought it up…He’s been a pretty average hitter, maybe a bit above average.
I was promised lasagna.
Hey, it's not like I am making this up…
Year Age Tm Lg Lev Aff G PA AB 2B 3B HR BA OBP SLG OPS
3 Seasons 172 750 631 49 4 25 .333 .427 .542 .969
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 6/21/2010.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 21, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
In AAA
He’s kept about 200 points between his SLG and AVG.
So, in order to reluglarly slug over.500 like you expect him to, he’ll need to regularly keep an AVG over .300. Very few players do that, especially ones that aren’t that great at putting the bat on the ball (~17.5% K rate both this year and last year in AAA).
And that’s assuming that all his power carries from AAA to the majors. Assuming that for anyone who wasn’t terribly young for the league (which 22-23 is not) is optimistic. And that’s before taking into consideration the fact that the PCL does wonders for hitters’ SLG.
Mainly, though, scouts don’t see him hitting for too much power in the majors, and I don’t see much reason to doubt them in this case.
I still don’t understand why you assume that he’ll be a fantastic defensive 3B (which is what I understand from you bringing up Zimmerman and Rolen as comparisons).
I was promised lasagna.
I don't think he could play a GG 3B tomorrow,
but I think, given the opportunity, like he was with 1B, he could have done very well at 3B.
I have no evidence to back this up other than what I have read about his general tool set, and seeing him play.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
Fun fact:
Ramirez going forward will be much better than Uribe.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
no
I’m just saying that having a catcher who can hit well above average AND field well above average for his position is worth more IMO than a SS who should probably be a 3B who can hit great and isn’t THAT good on defense. (unless hanley is a great defender, but I thought he wasn’t)
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Well, your comment was “a great hitting catcher is better than a great hitting SS who isn’t THAT great on defense”, which implies that the bats are comparable (both “great”).
Posey should be a very good hitter for a catcher. Hanley is one of the very best hitters in the majors, regardless of position. Move him to 2B, or 3B, and he’s still the best hitter in the NL at that position.
I was promised lasagna.
But Ramirez is probably a much better hitter than Posey will ever be. I would be tempted by that trade. Of course, I’m feeling better and better about Bumgarner, so I’m not sure I’d do it.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
For HanRam and JOSH JOHNSON
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Josh Johnson
GIANTS 5th STARTER
His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?
5TH STARTER?
LONG RELIEF.
01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey
Wave them home Tim Flannery, wave them home.
The pic of huff strikes again.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Haven't read the lines in awhile
why is belt still in A ball?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
Probably just waiting to promote him for the second half. Make things easier as everyone will be promoted in unison.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Sounds good
I can’t believe how good he is. I’d never even heard of him before this year
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/mentions fantasy baseball team
I'm STILL
waiting for Brock Bond to be promoted to the majors, since he’s been pretty OK in AAA
:)
His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?
Don't have to have power
can just hit the ball all over the field
His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?
One wonders . . .
. . . if he could or would change his style a bit if necessary. “Zero power” hitters are that way because that’s their deliberate choice of hitting style, surrendering power to get more slap hits. It might not be wise for him to try to change, and there have certainly been quite successful major leaguers of the “slap” variety (Billy North jumps to mind). But perhaps, just perhaps, he could move up to line-drive gap hitting without much loss in OBP.
In any event, I’d give him a long, long look at some time when he could get a steady stream of plate appearances (which means not till next year or till this team drops totally out of contention, which last I don’t think likely till middle or late September if it happens at all).
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Maybe Brock Bond...
…should be tutored by the guy that finally taught Andres Torres how to hit. If, in fact, he’s a slap hitter (I’ve never seen him hit).
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
what’s a good comp for him? the current version of David Eckstein?
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 21, 2010 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
With shittier defense
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
BOND is a better name however
His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?
right.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 21, 2010 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
thats what I’ve heard as a comp for him. Though Bond may have less range.
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
by Gobroks on Jun 21, 2010 9:30 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Albert Pujols without the power and at second base.
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Jun 21, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Pujols defense is stellar
Bonds’s is not, last I heard. do I misremember?
Unless he’s an absolutely ridiculous butcher, Bond is a better fielder than Pujols.
Pujols is a great fielder for a 1B, which means that, in a group made out of mostly horrible, horrible fielders, he’s one of the better ones. In the grand scheme of things, he’s still a well below average fielder.
I was promised lasagna.
Bonds was a great defender, at least until late in his career.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on Jun 21, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Aaron King
I see he pitched an inning in Salem yesterday. 1 hit, 1 bb, 1 k, 1 ER. I know he got lit up in A+, but he was still striking guys out. I’m not sure when he last pitched, but I’m wondering if he is being converted to relief in SS ball, or is this some kind of injury rehab?
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 21, 2010 9:23 AM PDT reply actions
It’s obvious that the Giants believe he needs a major overhaul to continue his climb toward the majors. King last pitched in SJ in the middle of May. He made 7 appearances in SJ this year, all starts, with horrible results (besides Ks).
I’m assuming that he was sent from SJ to Scottsdale (minor league camp) after his last start to get intensive instruction on his mechanics. Now, about a month into his overhaul, the Giants have either decided that his future lies in the pen (maybe as a LOOGY), or they want him to get used to his new mechanics while working out of the pen – like J. Sanchez did last year before his no-hitter.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I watched a King start this year
and from that start (extreme SSS, I know) it seemed like he had a Jonathan Sanchez esque fastball. I think King could end up being a very good LHSU
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Still cheering for Kevin Frandsen
John Bowker: One of the 3 best OF's on the Giants roster
Funny. Clayton Tanner could be called up and not even be the second best pitcher named Clayton in the division.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 21, 2010 10:00 AM PDT reply actions
SK
Looking pretty rough the past 3 games. Some glimmers of hope but overall not much to crow about.
The good: Scoma made good contact at the plate and seems to have good range in the outfield. + arm, made a good throw that had the runner pegged at home but my newest son didn’t handle the throw. :(
Campbell looked good on both offense and defense. So did Izturis. Nothing there that made me wish we had somebody else out there, both exhibited good range and arms. Did not look lost at the plate. I haz a happy.
Of the 3 catchers in this series my newest son seems to be the best defensively, admittedly extreme sss but no passed balls last night and threw out 3 of 5 base stealers and should have had a 4th but for not getting a grip on the ball. Also threw out another baserunner trying to advance to 3rd on a play at home. Unfortunately he managed to ground out to 3rd on nearly every at bat, we’ll have to adjust his diet.
Jose Medina is a very good fielder with a good arm, played center last night. Mostly good at bats except in the 10th when he swung thru 3 straight pitches. I guess he was hoping to win it with one swing of the bat.
The Bad: RafRod. I’m sorry, I don’t know if he’s big leagueing it or not but there does not seem to be any hustle or really much in his swing that makes me think he wants to be here. It would seem that the general feeling with players and some I’ve spoken with within the org is that the G’s wasted some dollars on this young man.
Our 1st baseman Carlos Quintana is an adequate defensive 1st baseman but not so hot with the wood. Maybe it’s adjusting to our freakin cold weather but so far some pretty ugly swings.
Adopted father of Brian Bocock, Brad Boyer, Sharlon Schoop, Shane Jordan, Jeremiah Luster,Trey Webb,David Quinowski, and Jeff Arnold.
"GM Jack Zduriencik is one of the sharper tools in the shed. Elsewhere in that shed, Brian Sabean continues to pound screws into bricks with a garden rake."
Thanks for the eyewitness reports
Reading the recaps and news articles, it appears that this will be a very long season for S-K. They sure seem quite undisciplined, not fundamentally sound, and bereft of positional player talent. When your best OF is a 23.5 year old non-prospect, and your starting 1b is a 23 year old non-prospect, both of who are repeating at S-K and playing ss-A ball for the 3rd summer in a row, then things don’t look so promising. I think we’ll have to get our thrills from watching how CamLam, Rosin, and Graham perform on the rubber, and how Jurica and Izturis perform in the infield and at the plate.
I do see that they have added Adam Duvall, the 2B from Louisville that we just drafted in the 11th round. Hopefully he’s got some talent, although they’re going to have to move him off of 2B to get him in the lineup, because you’ve got 3 guys at 2B now (Izturis, Raynor and Duvall). Maybe they’ll move Duvall or Raynor to 3B or OF? I don’t think Kyle Mach or Jose Medina should be blocking guys that could be real prospects.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
BumgarnBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRZZZZZZZ
I get the feeling like a call up will be coming for MadBum very soon.
01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey
Wave them home Tim Flannery, wave them home.
yup- we were debating this in another thread. question is whether sat agains the red sox is the right time…
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
I’d still like the Giants to wait. I’m glad he seems to have developed other pitches, but I think letting him work on them more is the better move. Martinez can make a few more starts at least.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Even though he had the day off, I hear Belt still took a couple of nice walks.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Jun 21, 2010 2:09 PM PDT reply actions
I see John Bowker hit his usual daily HR
by RastonwarriorRobot on Jun 21, 2010 2:10 PM PDT reply actions
Yeah, but keep in mind that AAA stats mean nothing to the Ginats Brasz.
"Row(and) will come out of this. You stay with your guys and he is one of our guys." - Bruce Bochy 05-31-10
"...and with Titanic's transverse bulkheads and watertight doors, it renders this vessel practically unsinkable." - "Shipbuilder" magazine, 1912
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