Sabean: "Posey not ready for the major leagues"
Where do you really begin here? There is so much in this piece to make me think that Brian Sabean was either a) born to lie badly or b) was born with significant neurocognitive deficits. In a piece full of winners, my favorite line was easy:
"Triple-A baseball isn't very good," Sabean said. "I'm going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big leagues."
I guess that Strasburg kid must be a joke. Oh and I'm sure it makes your own pitching prospects such as MadBum and Pucetas happy to hear that they are basically driftwood.
about 2 years ago
capn
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This needs to be front-paged
And given all the attention possible. Sabean is a total ass-hat and he’s running/ruining our favorite team.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
It gets even worse...
Baggs put the rest of the interview here. I am going off to find a corner where I can curl up in the fetal position and just rock…
"So these guys (like Posey) are facing Four-A pitching, and you better have a lot of people see ‘em at different times and write their reports and almost have a straw poll of private ballots. Because I don’t know what it means anymore, in the PCL. It’s almost like years ago."
–
Sabean and Bochy seem to be like-minded in their philosophy regarding minor league statistics. They have their place in the evaluation process, but it isn’t an overriding one.
Otherwise, how could Bochy have rationalized putting backup catcher Eli Whiteside, a hitter with a career .389 slugging percentage in nine minor league seasons, in the No.5 spot in Sunday’s lineup?
We all know Whiteside is swinging a hot bat lately. So do you discount the minor league track record?
"Yeah, you do," Bochy said. "Some guys figure it out later and improve and make adjustments. Whitey started making adjustments in Fresno last year and he really started swinging the bat with authority and driving the ball. … He looks very comfortable at the plate, he uses the whole field and he’s got nice balance up there."
Bengie Molina is another example of a late bloomer, actually. He was an organizational catcher and non-prospect in the Angels system who didn’t make his big league debut until his sixth pro season.
Sabean mentioned that Whiteside’s solid contributions make it easier to take Molina out of the lineup or be conservative when he’s banged up.
"It wouldn’t be so funny if we weren’t playing pretty good baseball and winning, but sometimes when you’ve got guys banged up it gets the entire roster involved earlier," Sabean said. "And that helps you going forward because everybody gets a chance to chip in. (Matt) Downs, too. He’s doing fine — much more relaxed and confident than last year."
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
Whitey?
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 9, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Man, it’d be so cool if Bud Black were our pitching coach.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
by thehavenot on May 9, 2010 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
this
Or manager.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions
If he were the manager who would call him Blacky?
"Forget it Donny, you're out of your element"-Walter Sobchak
by icanplaythird on May 10, 2010 1:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Whiteside made adjustments in Fresno last year, so you should ignore the minor league numbers that preceded those adjustments. Thanks to the adjustments, he hit .228/.269/.339 after being called up to the majors. That’s why he’s hitting 5th.
I am getting less and less patient with these kind comments from the FO. Here’s what I’m wondering: is this unique to baseball? Or are all professionals this ignorant about their work?
I was promised lasagna.
I have the same question. The other thing I ask is whether they are just flat making this shit up? How does a guy like Baggs listen to this crap without yorking all over his pen and paper?
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
by capn on May 9, 2010 8:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This could be related to the fact that these quotes are by two different people?
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
If Sabean doesn’t know “what it means anymore, in the PCL,” shouldn’t it be his job to figure out what AAA stats mean in context or hire somebody to do it? It is only the Giants’ best hitting prospect who’s playing there.
Joe Paterson: pitching in a AAA game near you!
by imovermyhead on May 9, 2010 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions
if he were a good prospect then he wouldn’t be in AAA. he’s in AAA so clearly he’s a Four-A prospect. Which isn’t good.
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
"Because I don’t know what it means anymore, in the PCL. It’s almost like years ago."
Its ridiculous
These guys must be lobotomized. Or they just simply don’t understand statistics in any meaningful way. Give “Whitey” 500 ABs and let’s see if that .389 slugging percentage is so far off base. Furthermore, if guys who straight up suck in AAA are capable of succeeding in the majors, where is the rule that those who are awesome in AAA will suck in the majors? Ahhhhhhh brain explodes
Oh really?
Most of the prospect arms, the stuff that really can neutralize hitters, are at Double-A. You look at what some of our (struggling hitting) prospects are doing there.
Then why isn’t Buster there, getting “tested”. There is no logic here. Not even bork logic.
Insanity is just a state of mind.
he isn’t ready to catch that kind of stuff yet.
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis.
by j14 on May 9, 2010 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
or why wasn’t he sent there last season instead of skipping it?
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 9, 2010 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Triple-A crap pitchers
Not pictured: Aroldis Chapman, Jake Arrieta, Drew Storen (yeah yeah he’s a reliever, but someone’s gotta catch him—TWSS), Jeremy Hellickson.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 8:32 PM PDT reply actions
Madison Bumgarner, Joe Martinez....
it’s just ridiculous.
It’s not that I mind that the guy disagrees with me on so many issues; it is his way of communicating, his “I am just so much smarter than you dumbass” smarmy attitude that just rubs me the wrong way. Same thing with his quotes about signing guys like Tucker instead of Vlad Guerrerro.
Exactly. I was just going for the easy names any bozo should know, the ones in MiLB.com’s top 50 prospect list. I really don’t know what Sabean’s trying to say here. I never liked his attitude and his tactics leave me scratching my head as well.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions
No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Jim] Brower, [Scott] Eyre, [Matt] Herges, [Dustin] Hermanson, [Brett] Tomko, [A.J.] Pierzynski, [Pedro] Feliz, [J.T.] Snow, [Jeffrey] Hammonds, [Dustan] Mohr and [Michael] Tucker—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
If the playoffs teams were decided by experience, the Giants would win the World Series every year.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
Chris Tillman
also Johlys Chacin and Mat Latos are in between AAA and the majors right now. It kinda seems like Sabean is trying to quell the yells for Posey to be up. If molina were hitting .250, he might change his tune.
Adopted father of Eric Surkamp, the next great big-eared soft tossing lefty in SF Giants History!
by Speedforthewin on May 9, 2010 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions
this
With some guys on the cusp of AA, like Christian Friedrich and Jarrod Parker, who are scary good and could move up fast.
I’m trying not to get involved in mud slinging, but I thought part of a GM’s job is to know some things about the minors and prospects.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions
er guys on the cusp of AAA, who are in AA now
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
whoopsie
Parker had TJ surgery and is out until 2011. I fail!
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah, you’re still correct. Parker is scary good and when he’s healthy, he probably will move fast.
Adopted father of Eric Surkamp, the next great big-eared soft tossing lefty in SF Giants History!
by Speedforthewin on May 9, 2010 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he knows about them but is just being his arrogant self. I kinda feel like the AAA pitcher argument was a jab at bumgarner and the comments he said a few weeks ago.
Adopted father of Eric Surkamp, the next great big-eared soft tossing lefty in SF Giants History!
by Speedforthewin on May 9, 2010 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep. There’s a lot of good arms in the PCL and IL and Sabean’s comments are really myopic.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
AKSHULLY
EVEN IF SABEAN WUZ RITE! (about the lack of pitching talent in the PCL) he’d be wrong.
Because it’s just another adjustment. Posey is hitting .343/.432/.536. That translates to .289/.356/.432 (he does have a lot of Ks though). It doesn’t matter WHY that’s what it translates too – whether it’s pitchers, weather, parks, phase of the moon. That’s what his season-to-date is worth.
That being said, he’s not really out hitting Molina … at this point I would guess that they would rather suffer through a couple weeks of Whiteside rather than start Posey’s arbitration clock…. but that might be giving FO a wee too much credit.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
Mazzaro as well.
Adopted father of Eric Surkamp, the next great big-eared soft tossing lefty in SF Giants History!
by Speedforthewin on May 9, 2010 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I went looking at some other prospect stuff, just skimming again. This time I hit BA’s Top 100 list. A few relievers doing well, Tanner Scheppers and Daniel Schlereth. Starters include Dan Hudson and a pair of Cubs prospects in Andrew Cashner and Jay Jackson. Add Jordan Lyles to the AA-group who could get up to AAA and do well.
This is not rocket surgery. I don’t know everything about prospects, but it is the basis of my work. I’d look like a massive idiota if I didn’t have knowledge of what I was writing or talking about, or if I didn’t at least try to understand things I do not know.
That he speaks like this with no real idea of what’s going on is pretty faily.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
Mostly because I’m stunned I found another person who uses the phrase “rocket surgery”
Proud of both my adopted son, Baggs, and my ward, Ryan LOLlis.
:)
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Except for one thing, O Baron
I think he’s talking about his own terrible AAA staff, which is bringing you another start from Wellemeyer and the exciting choice of Martinez or Pucetas or Bucket on a Stick for 5th starter thereafter.
I think he assumes everyone in AAA sucks because the AAA guys he has suck.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 9, 2010 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions
True
But it’s not even like the Fresno starting staff is a grab bag of suck. No world beaters in there, but would it be a backbreaker to have Joe Martinez start a game for the Giants next week if need be? Absolutely not. Eric Hacker’s throwing well. They already threw Bumgarner to the dogs up here.
Personally I’d pick the Bucket.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Bumgarner?
You mean that wiener who got married and went to a funeral or whatever? I heard he came to camp all fat and disgusting and can’t pitch. And I think he has some kind of confidence problem, although I have no idea why.
Somebody (Lurie?) was talking up Hacker, and he’d probably be a good candidate. If everybody hits .300, why is he posting good numbers? Screw work, let’s drink.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 9, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions
If any of you were young players, would you even want to play for the Giants?
I wouldn’t
The Giants offseason moves - "meh"
Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum, who could do whatever he wants to do.
If I was a draftee, I wouldn’t care, because it’s just as likely a new GM is in place by the time I get close to the majors
Adopted father of Eric Surkamp, the next great big-eared soft tossing lefty in SF Giants History!
by Speedforthewin on May 9, 2010 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions
lol
Did you not hear that BALCO produced anti-aging ’roid serum for Slobbean and Bochy?
They will never leave…
by Sgt. Dingleberry on May 9, 2010 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m a young playa. Does that count?
Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG
by Useful_Idiot on May 9, 2010 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
So Sabean is essentially saying that AA pitching is better than AAA… that makes perfect sense. When Tim spent a month in triple-A was that because he wasn’t good? Matt Cain spent a full year at triple-A, that must mean he is a terrible pitcher. And good job of slapping the faces of all your triple-A pitchers, Sabean, I’m sure that really boosted their confidence.
I can stand Bochy and his lack of statistical acumen, because he appears to be a nice guy. But Sabean and his smug “I’m right, you’re wrong” attitude becomes increasingly unbearable. You would think after a six year playoff drought the guy would develop some sense of self awareness, but I guess a guy with an ego that big will never change.
Go Fuck Yourself Sabean
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on May 9, 2010 8:52 PM PDT reply actions
Sabean does not appear to be a nice guy. He appears to be an arrogant fuck.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 9, 2010 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions
great band name
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 10, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Whether or not AAA is 'easy' or not is irrelevant.
If there are better players in the minor leagues, shouldn’t they be performing better than Posey? The fact is that he is one of the best performers in the minor leagues, which means that he’s better than many (about 90%-95% of other minor leaguers, possibly even more), so shouldn’t that mean that he’s better than all those other minor leaguers?
Being one of the best minor leaguers HAS to mean something.
Would some of these ‘minor league skeptics’ please tell me HOW it doesn’t mean anything?
If he means to say that it’s likely Posey won’t put up the exact same excellent numbers in the majors as he does in the minors, then it’s sorta like ‘duh’.
Nobody is interested in that.
But it seems as if Sabean forgets that just about every great major leaguer played in the minor leagues. And they were usually pretty good when they were there.
Hell, not even all great major leaguers, but essentially ALL major leaguers were in the minor leagues. And how they performed there had plenty to do with how they ended up performing in the major leagues.
I’m surprised Sabean even gave Sandoval a shot in 2008 because following his logic, Sandoval’s season in A+ and AA that year didn’t mean anything because it was against inferior competition.
I'm going with "Born to lie badly."
It’s probably not a good idea to say that Super Two status influences your thinking. And it’s probably not a good idea to believe that it doesn’t.
"The questions are so stupid. I don't believe in rivalries. I don't believe in curses. Wake up the damn Bambino, maybe I'll drill him in the ass."
- Pedro Martinez, asked about the Curse of the Bambino
+1
Were I heading up the MLBPA, I’d certainly file a grievance against a team that admitted it was holding back a top prospect because of service time. Particularly if that player is already a member.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
+1
just a shitty liar…
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
by capn on May 9, 2010 9:18 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
All he has to say, then, is, “We don’t think Posey is quite ready yet, our catching situation at the major league level is fine and we don’t want to move him off catcher at this point in time.”
That’s all you have to say.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
if Super Two is the sticking point, how much longer do we have to wait?
iirc, we just have to wait till June-ish. Is this right?
Proud adopted parent of the ball dudes, who have grounded into 109 fewer double plays than the Giants.
I tend to agree
He shouldn’t call out the Super 2 thing specifically, but I think there would have been a lot fewer heads exploding here if he’d said:
“Suffice it to say, we continue to evaluate Posey’s situation. We’re satisfied with Molina’s performance and think Whiteside is a capable backup. At the end of the day, we still think both the short-term and long-term success of the franchise is best served keeping him in AAA for the time being. We like him catching every day and honing his skills with Steve Decker. Suffice it to say, that could all change at the end of some day in the near future.”
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Monday morning talking
Easy to write about in blog time. I’m going to cut him some slack because I was just addressing one of my teams and in response to the question, “Why can’t we just hire the best and pay them the what the market demands?” I said, “Hey, we’re not the Yankees. This shouldn’t be news to anyone.” Kind of would like to have that one back.
"The questions are so stupid. I don't believe in rivalries. I don't believe in curses. Wake up the damn Bambino, maybe I'll drill him in the ass."
- Pedro Martinez, asked about the Curse of the Bambino
by achiappanza on May 11, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey Brian,
Where are you drinking tonight?
by Sgt. Dingleberry on May 9, 2010 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you “Gigantes22” reincarnated?
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
by capn on May 9, 2010 9:03 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Even if he's right
That Posey isn’t ready, his logic is so fucking retarded that he should be killed for the betterment of society.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I'll take things no one has ever said fpr $200, Alex
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
K.F.I.S.T.F.
Hoping for BowkerMania to get consistent playing time at AT&T Park
Oh Baggs
How can you seriously put up with this shit?
I’m getting quite tired of my son kowtowing to the company line.
Proud of both my adopted son, Baggs, and my ward, Ryan LOLlis.
I seriously LOL’d at this comment. The mental image it conjured was something incredible.
in the best shape of my life
by Prussian Creole on May 10, 2010 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions
The mental image is pretty awesome.
Sabean: Well, AAA stats are meaningless.
Baggs: Wait, what?
Sabean: Meaningless, I mean, what do you do with AAA stats?
Baggs: Well, I mean, um, you know, aw fuck it.
/Baggs punches Sabean in the throat and leaves.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on May 10, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually, in my mind it didn’t even get that far. It was merely the idea that Sabean’s comment that Triple A states are meaningless could be enough to make mild-mannered Baggerly just fly of the handle and punch Sabes in the nose to make me laugh out loud to the point of tears all alone in my tiny apartment at 12am.
I’m guessing it didn’t tickle anyone else that much but I’m half brain dead from finals so I’m cutting myself some slack
in the best shape of my life
by Prussian Creole on May 10, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Then it probably isn’t good that it did get that far in my mind, and at the ripe time of 10:25 AM.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on May 10, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Untrue!
Yours was for the Lulz, mine was just my own mind cracking me up in the wee hours of the morning. That’s never a good sign.
in the best shape of my life
by Prussian Creole on May 10, 2010 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, good.
I can’t wait til Buster gets promoted to AA.
.277/.399/.518 out of a shortstop?!
Keep on, keepin' on, Ryan Cavan
by ryanmiles on May 9, 2010 9:10 PM PDT reply actions 7 recs
I love you
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Still lol’ing
I hope Clay Timpner is reading this
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
by capn on May 9, 2010 9:24 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
rec'd
This made me smile
Adopted father of Eric Surkamp, the next great big-eared soft tossing lefty in SF Giants History!
by Speedforthewin on May 9, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I saw Sabean at game 5 at the tank yesterday.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
lol
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions
is that really him? …if so… what a douchebag. …if not… what a douchebag.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, tearing up Scottsdale, and has been alive long enough to see the Warriors make the playoffs once.
by BrianBokake on May 10, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
No, that’s not him.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Totally him.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
It could be him.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
It’s clearly him.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Whether or not it is him, why is he cheering?
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
It could be incoherent rage.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
No way that’s him.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
That's possibly him
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
K.F.I.S.T.F.
Hoping for BowkerMania to get consistent playing time at AT&T Park
I’ve just realized that Sabean managed to slag off his top hitting prospect AND his top pitching prospect in the same comment. That’s impressive.
I was promised lasagna.
IKR? What’s going through the boss’ mind when you openly dis the moneymakers in your org?
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s been dissing both of them separately for a while, so I guess he thought it’s a way to save time.
I don’t even want Posey in the majors right now. I think Sabean is doing the right thing by keeping him in AAA. I just don’t understand the constant he seems to have to make Posey look as bad as possible. I’m thinking about all the things we’ve heard about Posey over the past few month, and it seems like every single good thing was written by BA, BP, Kieth Law, etc, and ALL the bad stuff came from Sabean.
I was promised lasagna.
Yep. I have to qualms with Posey in AAA. I spoke to Steve Decker today about his work with Posey. There’s a lot left to be done there. Shilling for SF Dugout! The interview will run next week and it will be worth a read.
Anywho, Posey being in Fresno is fine. Sabean’s comments are not.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Not only that...
…but also potentially piss off Grizzlies ownership at the same time. It’s a trifecta of tactlessness!
Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in...Anaheim?
by EliminateMe on May 10, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
This is not exactly a defense of good old Brain
But none of the Giants prospects/suspects that have hit .300 in Fresno have done anything in MLB, at least in the past few years. Feliz and Fred spent time in Fresno, neither hit .300 there, and have been on ML rosters (Pedro) or will have a full year of playing time (Fred).
So I agree with Brain in that I don’t get very excited about Fresno guys putting up big numbers with road games in Colo Springs, Reno, Salt Lake, etc. But that’s just as much a commentary on their player selection and “development” as it is on AAA. As Baron and others noted, there are plenty of good ballplayers in AAA ball elsewhere and, quite frankly, probably several that would be upgrades for the Giants over what they are putting on the field.
Also, I’m fairly certain he was drunk when he said that.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
From the "fuck work, let's drink" file?
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I mean
you have to be drunk, right? Are you going to go in to your advisor tomorrow and tell him all the professors suck? For crap’s sake.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 9, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Global studies sucks!
/throws chair
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
or going to your future boss
and saying “man, look at all these crappy articles I wrote this year. I really dredged up some junk stories. In fact, it’s dumb to waste column space on baseball. Susan, where’s my little black book?”
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 9, 2010 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I failed to mention I threw the chair of the global studies department
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Nate?
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
by capn on May 9, 2010 9:35 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
good catch
and I’m rooting for him, but we’ll see how he does over a whole season.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 9, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, I’m fairly certain he was drunk when he said that.
When I read the article I assumed Slobbean was real hungover and just venting…
Bruce and Brian probably had a big weekend in the big apple, doing the stuff that couples do in NYC and I am sure LOTS of alcohol was involved…
by Sgt. Dingleberry on May 9, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
The basic, albeit really incoherently communicated, point is that PCL stats aren’t good indicators by themselves, and you need to send your scouts to games. I mean, heck, even with Posey in the top 5 in PCL OPS, his MLEs still qualify as “pretty okay.”
Pretty inane stuff.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
Well actually now his MLEs are nearing quite good.
What a difference a dinger makes.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
What I don’t get is if AA is so much better, then why did Posey skip AA? Why isn’t he there now? Also, when considering AAA stats, and all minor league stats, you have to consider age, and Posey has done very well at AAA at ages 22 and 23. Where is the empirical evidence that he’s not a good defensive catcher? Throws out 45% of base-stealers, agile, athletic, 3.60 catcher’s ERA when he was up last year, looked polished during he spring….I’m just not seeing the crappy defense. Also, if Posey is so terrible in Sabean’s eyes, why did he draft him 5th overall?
He’s OPSing in the 970s right now. He’s doing fine in AAA. (Look ma I used STATS)
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions
where is there empirical evidence that anyone is a good/bad defensive catcher? I haven’t seen any metric that accurately assess catching. Perhaps I’m missing one. Caught stealing is an awful stat, because it has as much (if not more) to do with the guy on the mound as it does the catcher. The way Sanchez holds on runners, Johnny Bench couldn’t have thrown out Chase Headly in San Diego.
I actually don’t think he looks very polished behind the plate. He throws well, but he sets up really high, and bobs up and down quite a bit behind the plate (in the small amount that I’ve seen him. I fully admit I’ve only seen him catch 20 or so innings). This is all stuff he’ll progress quickly on, I’m sure (especially with Steve Decker showing him the ropes) but I do think a little patience will be rewarded (both for the Giants’ and for Buster)
there may be a perception problem too
They think Bengie is a good defensive catcher.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 9, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
where is there empirical evidence that anyone is a good/bad defensive catcher?
WOWY. Comparisons of what happens when one guy is behind the plate compared to another, and you can look at this in terms of hitters performance (game calling), and runners advancing (holding the runners + preventing passed balls/wild pitches)….
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions
thanks, I’ll take a look at it. The usual suspects in the defense lineup just can’t measure catcher defense well.
(Keep in mind sample size issues with WOWY – it’s probably a much better indicator of how big an impact a guy made over his career and one or even a few seasons likely don’t tell us all that much useful info)
Tango’s done some work on it, for example.
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
All I know is that
During 2 of the 5 games I have actually had a chance to listen to this year, Miller was flummoxed by Bengie’s inability to receive a fastball. In two separate games he let two fastballs whiz right by his glove. Also smart teams run at will on him. He can’t throw anyone out. I have no doubt that Posey at this moment is a better catcher defensively than Molina.
And where’s that quote from Bork at the end of ST saying Posey was no longer a “not ready” defensively?
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on May 10, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
wreck'd
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 10, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Molina has actually been throwing fairly well so far, but he is having more trouble reaching fastballs up (or out) of the zone.
You’re thinking of Pablo.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
16 stolen bases 19 attempts.
That’s good?
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
has soooo little to do with the catcher. Akebono would steal second with he jumps baserunners are getting off Giants’ pitchers right now.
by tyrannoman on May 10, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
The Giants skipper is a former catcher, so clearly he believes that there is something mystical and magical about strapping it on and squatting behind the plate. It’s something supernatural, and clearly can’t be quantified with mere “stats.”
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
It also might help to remember that said catcher had a MilB line of: .254/.288/.390 which translated into 881 ML PAs and a line of: .239/.298/.388. It must be hard to understand how a pile of dogshit MiLB career translated into a pile of dogshit MLcareer.
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
I wonder if Sabean believes half the things he says, or if he deliberately wants to tick people off.
Proud adoptive little sister of Joe Paterson.
I wonder whether Sabez bet Baggs a six-pack of Schaefer Light that he could melt McCovey Chonicles.com in 2 hours or less with the load of horse dung he was about to make up…
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
I'll go with this
Proud adoptive little sister of Joe Paterson.
by imovermyhead on May 9, 2010 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
IRL troll?
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 9, 2010 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
The thing I don’t get is why he thinks it’s necessary to say things like this. Hello? Your two catchers at the major league level are OPSing, like, a combined .950. Your first baseman is hitting fine. You aren’t going to move Sandoval to first. Posey doesn’t know how to play left field, which is the only viable place to put him at the moment. That’s all you NEED TO SAY. You’ve got a perfectly good excuse right there and you don’t even need to mention service time!
So why would you start in on this bullshit that insults your two top prospects? I don’t understand it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
by jponry on May 9, 2010 10:28 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Well-said!
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
by capn on May 9, 2010 10:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes but this would involve Sabean:
1.) Completely letting go of the idea of moving Pablo to 1st, which he seems hesitant to do (God knows why)
2.) Knowing what an OPS is
in the best shape of my life
by Prussian Creole on May 10, 2010 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
BS
that insults your two top prospects entire scouting staff and every player in Fresno. See you for September callups!
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 10, 2010 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions
In what way is saying that PCL stats are unreliable and you therefore need to use your scouting staff an insult to his scouting staff?
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
The point is that he has a simple and uncurious way of thinking. PCL stats may be inflated, but it is reductio ad absurdum to say that PCL stats have no value. There are hundreds of thousands of PCL at bats, and many of the players who took those at bats went on to have long ML careers. Is there not something one can learn from looking at all those data, or because it is complicated and because there is not a simple 1:1 correlation between PCL and ML performance, should we just throw it all in the trash and throw darts instead?
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
It is reductio ad absurdum to think that PCL stats have no value, but it’s also reductio ad absurdum to think that all you need to do is run shit through minorleaguesplits.com and you’re a professional talent evaluator.
Sabean is saying that his determination that Posey isn’t ready is based on a consensus opinion from a number of Giants scouts. Because the stats make him seem better than he looks in person. This is not an “incurious” thing to say. What’s incurious is the assumption that the Giants are somehow working from ignorance and without a model of player progression (with the attendant knee-jerk fury about it).
Furthermore, the quote about how “AAA isn’t very good” makes it clear: he’s not talking about how “nobody in AAA is any good,” he’s talking about how the top-ceiling of the talent pool is lower than you would think, because it’s a storage room for fifth outfielders and swing men. He’s not discounting ALL STATS AS MEANINGLESS, he’s discounting the .900 OPSs of the Joe Borchards and Scott McClains of the world. That a good offensive performance needs to be validated by positive scouting reports.
Now, you can argue that the scouts are wrong, and Posey really is ready. But to read Sabean talk about how he relies on his scouts’ opinion analyzed with “OMG UR A LYER” and “OMG UR SOO DUM” makes me feel like I’m at a Tea Party rally.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
How well would Posey have to hit in order to be considered ‘ready’?
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Donno. Depends what he’s missing. If he’s a mistake-slugger right now, he needs to learn to hit the pitchers’ pitch. It could be that he’s developed a bad habit that can be exploited by pitchers at a higher level.
It could be that they’re perfectly okay with his hitting and want to work on his receiving, which is actually what the article says. That the point isn’t that his hitting is bunk, it’s that it’s not as world-beating as it seems and he needs more time behind the plate.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I ask because he’s currently hitting .350 with power. Does he need to bump that up to .380? .400? At what point does it stop being “Oh, AAA sucks, it’s all meaningless”?
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
I think this is a case of TRUST MANAGEMENT.
We don’t know what management knows because we’re not management, ergo, we must trust what they say/decide because they are making decisions based on more information. As the plebs, it is our job to fall in line. As commentators on a baseball blog, it is our job to keep it civil and not scrutinize comments from management and simply point and click.
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe I'm overpersonalizing your comment, but...
…considering how, of 170 comments, about 150 of them are some variation of “OMG FU SABEZZZ!!!111one,” I’m going to say that “falling in line” is not one of my virtues at the moment.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Whether or not the comment was intended as an insult, it can clearly be taken as such. Since a lot of people hold Sabean in such low regard, anything that might draw their ire would logically produce the FU SABEZ sentiment.
And the “falling in line” notion speaks to the idea that whatever management says, goes, not what the majority says. The tone of your comments have certainly introduced that “we” don’t know what we’re talking about because we don’t know the context of Sabean’s comments or why he might say what he did in the first place.
Also, I don’t think the Tea Party needs to be brought into the discussion as there haven’t been any racist statements made. Criticizing people perceived to be idiots is what the liberal media elite does TO Tea Party folk.
Still, I appreciate a counterargument in this situation. My knee jerk reaction was, “Just another stupid comment from that guy.” I was amazed that he didn’t use “at duh end uv duh day” or any other Sabeanism, but I still think it was a fairly stupid quote that pulled down my red curtain. Reading a less emotional response is certainly worth my time, as it is a long season and he has said far more insulting things before.
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, by the" Tea Party" I meant mainly the idea of responding back to a public figure with “I don’t agree with this person therefore he is lying and dumb.” It’s the proverbial Funkadelic hump of arguments: so high you can’t get over it, so low you can’t go under it…
But I can see arguments for how I should maybe be a little more civil myself. It’s not just a matter of “we can’t know what he’s saying,” it’s a matter of frustration over “why the hell doesn’t anyone want to know what he’s saying?” Like, “this makes no sense therefore he’s dumb” ultimately provides no insight into anything, and in fact in this particular case erects a barrier to actually understanding how the Giants evaluate and regard their prospects. Which in turn, actually inhibits the kind of criticism that makes for better understanding of baseball (and the installation of better GMs).
Which is in turn a bunch of ridiculous bombast I’ve just spewed over a quote as to whether or not AAA hitters’ stats are a good measure of the performance of the prospect… I need a soda.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I would LOVE to know more about the process. The Giants don’t seem to be too willing to allow people to get that peak, though. Any time I can understand how/why something happens, even if I don’t agree with the process, is time well spent, in my book. And if this really is about pausing the arb clock, I’m okay with that, too.
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
But then they (Sabean) get all butthurt when we don’t just trust them that the process works!
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Valid points… but if any of this was true why didn’t Sabean just come out and say this? Sabean could have had said something along the lines of “Posey is putting up big numbers right now, but he’s in the process of making a couple of adjustments at the plate” or he could have said “Posey still has to develop more defensively.” Instead, he moronically talks about how triple-A is essentially worthless, discounting everything Posey has accomplished to this point, and implicitly insulting our second best prospect in the process.
Personally, I think Sabean is worried about the Posey situation (and to a lesser extent the Bumgarner situation.) This is the first time in a long while that the Giants have a legitimate hitting prospect, and Sabean realizes if he Posey doesn’t pan out it, it could mean Sabean’s ass is on the line. He seems hellbent on lowering the fans expectations of Posey, and even Bumgarner. In a sense, he is building a pre-made excuse. If Posey comes up and becomes a star, all is well for Sabean and the Giants. If Posey comes up and struggles, Sabean can simply turn to his excuse and pretty much say “I told you so.”
Brian Sabean: Keeping Brian Sabean employed since 1997
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on May 10, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree, and I don’t think Posey should be called up now. Whether he is ready is a different question. The issue with Sabean is that he did a terrible job justiying what is an entirely justifiable case. In so doing, IMO, he managed to look stupid and potentially offend some of his best prospects and his AAA club (and the league). Again, that his conclusion was not wrong, does not mean that how he reached it (or how he explained how he reached it) was also not wrong.
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
Oh, I won't argue that the man has the charisma of burnt toast
And at times, burnt toast with poop on it.
He really shouldn’t talk to the press at all, especially not in this here internet era where outrage has become a hobby, like whittling. But I don’t think he’s actually going to hurt either Posey or Bumgarner’s feelings. I’m pretty sure they’re being told exactly what’s wrong with them as baseball players, all the time, every day, by people much closer to them than Sabean. That’s what folks in the biz call “coaching.”
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Never underestimate the fragility of a ballplayer’s ego.
However, you are more right than wrong in that opinion.
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Imagine if he had said something similar about Bengie…
“Bengie’s an okay hitter for a catcher, but most catchers are actually terrible hitters, so that’s not saying much. Not to mention slow.”
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
You don’t even need to say that much.
“I forgot that tomorrow’s Bengie’s birthday. Thanks for reminding me.”
/Molina throws a fit that the organization nearly forgot his birthday
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll eat that toast if you throw in some cheese.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
No wine?
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
I haven’t found the wine that really goes with a cheese turdburger yet.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Merlot
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on May 10, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
You really expect me to drink that shit?
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
The perfect partner of a turd sandwich.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on May 10, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I disagree with your comment that Sabean’s “AAA isn’t very good” line makes it CLEAR that he doesn’t mean “nobody in AAA is any good.” In fact, the quotes Baggs provides after Sabean’s blanket judgment of AAA gives more weight to the claim that he DOES think nobody in AAA is any good, particularly:
“Anybody who can pitch is in the big leagues.”
As has already been stated many times in this thread, it’s defensible not calling up Bust Poser, but it’s another thing entirely to dismiss and judge negatively AAA players in the way that Daft Asshole did. If you have to disrespect people to make your point, then you’re no better than the Lunatic Fringe, you fucking idiot piece of shit.
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I think a lot of this thread is overly hostile towards Sabean – just people looking for any reason to assume the worst and using any vaguely worded phrase as evidence against Sabean. That said, I also think your interpretation is giving Sabean a lot of credit and assuming a lot that isn’t there, too.
Besides, Sabean said he doesn’t put much stock into Triple-A statistics.
“Triple-A baseball isn’t very good,” Sabean said. “I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big leagues.”
That’s all we were given. It doesn’t really tell us much one way or another. Combined with other Sabean quotes, my only reaction is – why does he even feel the need to talk to the media about this stuff, and say it the way he does? Why talk about this stuff at all, especially since every time he talks to the media it seems like a contradiction of what he said last time (giving the impression there’s no plan at all, whether that impression is correct or not)? Let’s avoid reading too much into what Sabean’s saying, though – I’m seeing multiple paragraphs back and forth reading meaning into a few sentences. It’s a couple lines, there just isn’t much content there to be read into.
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
There is a context. Sabean decided to resign Bengie Molina instead of start Posey, regardless of how the organization decided to rocket Posey through the minors
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Well, this is my problem with Sabean.
He still seems to think running the Giants can be done like running any old business, that you can pal around with the reporters and babble about whatever’s on your mind and, hey Andy, see ya at the country club on Saturday.
Why did he say it? Why not? Baggs asked a question, Sabean riffed on the answer. Except the internet will eat everything you say with a fork and barf it back onto you. That’s why the internet exists, that and porn.
Jesus, I don’t know why I spend so much time defending the man, considering I’d be much happier with, say, Barr or Logan White or someone else with a sronger development track record in the chair. I guess this board somehow makes one of the 100 most powerful men in baseball seem like an underdog.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Just THIS board?
Maybe it’s the whole internet that makes him an underdog, because the majority McC view of Sabean is not in the ’net minority.
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, yes, this board.
‘Cause “OMG SABEZ I WISH U WOULD DIE!! RON PAUL 4 PREZ” on SFGate is pretty ignorable. This board, on the other hand, seems to idiot-screen fairly thoroughly, which means it’s harder for me to just click-and-move-on. There’s lots of good stuff in these here comment sections, so it takes a lot more self-control not to mix it up when I think people are being pointlessly mean. Even if they’re being pointlessly mean to a man who makes a lot of money fucking up my favorite team.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Part of the fun in being pointlessly mean is its pointlesslessness. We don’t even get on the players that much because we know that they’re only so good, it’s Bochy and Sabean that puts them in the positions they find themselves from time to time Nobody believes Molina’s a cleanup hitter, but we don’t blame Molina for hitting cleanup, etc.
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
But shouldn’t a 54 year old dude who makes a shitload of money to be the “Senior Vice President and General Manager of the San Francisco Giants” be able to take some criticism from a bunch of losers in skid-marked tighty whities and coke-bottle glasses locked in their basements?
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
I don’t wear undies (because I’m so fat), so I sit in a skid-marked chair, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't remember if it was here or the sfgiants.com board...
…but there was a thread dedicated to proving how Sabean doesn’t know how to use a computer.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
omg
i must read that thread
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I think it was on here.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.
#2 in Fanshots
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
And by that logic...
…he’s never going to come out here and give me that hug. I refuse to believe that.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
But that's not how you run "any old business"
I have a small company, and I would be nuts to run it the way Sabes does. Work = politics, among many other things. Dude has no perception of that whatsoever.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
I think that his comments here are part of a recent pattern of his to say the most degrading thing that he can about any prospect fans want to see on the team that he’s keeping down as an excuse for keeping them down. It’s the pattern that bothers the shit out of me, and if we’re overreacting to individual comments at all, I think it’s fair to say that at least we’re regular reacting to the pattern itself.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
and it seems like he’s intent on keeping said prospects down just to spite the fans he so dislikes. I know that’s probably not the case, but when he says these things, the doubt creeps in.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 10, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Good point
Furthermore, the quote about how "AAA isn’t very good" makes it clear: he’s not talking about how "nobody in AAA is any good," he’s talking about how the top-ceiling of the talent pool is lower than you would think, because it’s a storage room for fifth outfielders and swing men.
I tend to agree with this. Given how starting pitching really drops off at the back of rotation and if you figure the typical AAA starter hasn’t displaced them, it says something about the pitching Posey is seeing.
Said another way, Posey is facing a lot more guys not good enough to unseat the Wellemeyers and Perezes of the world than he he is up-and-coming hotshots.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
All Fresno Grizzlies are PCL players
All PCL players suck
Therefore all Fresno players suck
Therefore whoever selected them sucks.
QED
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 10, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
There’s a difference between “Triple-A baseball isn’t very good” and “Triple-A baseball players aren’t very good.” There’s a big difference, in fact. It’s the difference between saying “My Ford sucks,” and “All Ford engineers are idiots.” My Ford DID suck (and sucked to death at the top of Spencer in Sausalito, which was an OMG-gonna-die moment, but anyway). But I still think there were some engineers involved who were pretty smart.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
The Fresno Grizzlies play AAA Baseball
AAA Baseball isn’t very good
The Fresno Grizzlies aren’t very good
The players I signed to play baseball in Fresno aren’t very good.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 10, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
OMG, you’re right. And since almost everyone in baseball has played in AAA, SABEAN HAS SAID NO ONE IN BASEBALL IS VERY GOOD! Everyone on the Giants will now quit playing, immediately, forever.
I’m guessing you’ve written a lot of academic papers in your time?
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Ugh, yeah, I fucked that joke up—sorry, Nabob, no flame intended.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Um, to clarify...
…that’s a joke about the types of arguments used in academia, not a dig at you.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s exactly what I was going to say. Why does he even say anything? What’s the point in the comments he makes? I really don’t get it. Just say that Bochy’s a former catcher, Decker’s a former catcher, and everyone in the organization, including them, thinks Buster needs to refine his skills behind the plate a little more. Why say anything else? I just don’t get why Sabean feels the need to speak out like this, and it really makes me question his skills as a manager – how would you feel if you boss or bosses boss went out telling people what you weren’t capable of and how the good work you’re doing is a meaningless indicator of whether you can handle a promotion (either in public, or while you were there, so you could hear what they’re saying)?
On to another point, this really makes them sound schitzophrenic when one minute they’re talking about bringing Posey up to get his bat in the lineup, and the next theyr’e talking about how meaningless AAA performance in the PCL is. Why can’t this team make up it’s mind and stick to a position? At least they’ve been consistent on his defensive skills….now show some of that consistency in judging his offensive skills. Stop changing your mind because of small sample sizes.
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions
In fairness
He might have said that and the reporters kept asking and re-asking the same question looking for a different answer. They can do that sometimes. After the A’s game yesterday, Gabe Kapler essentially said to a reporter, “You’re asking the same question over and over and I’ve already answered it. Unless you’ve got a different question, I’m done with that one.” He wasn’t being super dickish in the way he said it, but you could tell he was getting exasperated with the reporter trying to bait him into saying something juicy.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
I’ve always thought if I was a professional athlete, I would probably be a dick to the media. I’d get so sick of that kind of crap.
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
And if the media cooks you, they can cost you big bucks by destroying your Q rating
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Yep. Good thing everyone else would love me, though!
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
It depends on how good you are
The media hating him never seemed to cost the best player of our generation any money.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
Huh?
You don’t think Bonds’ surly reputation cost him millions? You realize I’m talking about non-salary income like endorsements, right?
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if it cost him MLB salary, too.
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
No, I didn't realize that, actually
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
I guess I presumed when I said "Q rating" it would be assumed
Guys like Tomlinson, Manning, Lebron, Jeter and pre-scandal Tiger get huge endorsement deals because they’re perceived as likable based on their appeal and familiarity.
Although everyone knew who Bonds was, his reputation cost him huge bucks. Think about it, can you recall EVER seeing Bonds on national TV pitching a product? On the other hand, you can’t go five minutes without seeing Peyton or Shaun White in a commercial.
Here are athletes from Forbes’ top celebrities following 2004, when Bonds won his 4th consecutive MVP. He should have been on top of the world, but didn’t even make the list:
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/53/Athletes_Rank_1.html
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
You didn't need the whole explanation
I understand this part of being a sports celebrity.
I just didn’t think about it at the time.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
yes I did
After typing it, I read it allowed. I love the sound of my own voice!
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
I'm glad you were allowed to read it.
You’re wife seems really nice.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
Bonds's problem was that he wasn't a Yankee
or often played against the Yankees
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
Thats why i don’t care when people say ," Bonds was a douchebag!!! etc", because it seems when he wasn’t being constantly harassed by the media, and getting syringes thrown at him, he was a decent guy. Not great, but decent.
Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!
by GovernorStephCurry on May 16, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
this is what I was thinking
just say “he’s looking great in AAA, but we don’t need his bat because our catchers are hitting well right now. The longer he stays in AAA the better he’ll get at the finer points of playing catcher and calling games, which will only help him more once he is called up.”
If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.
Because Sabean is an arrogant fuck?
Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!
by GovernorStephCurry on May 16, 2010 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Sabean just insulted his two best prospects.
Why do that? What’s the point? Stop being an asshole.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Not just the top two, but the entire time pitching staff. And the hitters. He’s just being a dick. That’s like eating sushi and saying that it’s no good unless you eat it in Japan.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
OMG YOU'RE RIGHT!
Do you think they’ll be okay? Or should we send them chocolates?
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
You’ll regret your snark after Madbum is DFA’d.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Furthermore, it’s just this type of thinking that has kept players like Edgar Martinez in the minors for entirely too long. The worst bit is that Posey is being punished for playing a high leverage position. If a guy can hit, play him. There is no doubt that Posey can hit. No one is even disputing that, not even Sabes. We’re supposedly keeping him down because he is a moron defensively, yet the Giants allow more SBs than almost everyone else in the league.
I know that there’s more to catching than stopping SBs. Who knows, maybe this will all turn out gold in the end. I certainly hope so, but am annoyed at being forced to wait.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Speaking as a father...
…I’m sort of assuming my son is sticking his middle finger in the air and learning a changeup.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
If I've taught him one thing...
… it’s never poo angry.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
I see, you can't trust minor league statistics, all right...
We’ll use the tried and proven method of “Pick some random guy off the MiL roster when one of our vets get injured.” That has worked well so far for developing position players. I mean, look at all the All-Stars we’ve developed since 1997 when Brian Sabean took the GM job.
wait.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
Every time I read of hear something Sabean says...
it reinforces my theory that he doesn’t really care what fuck he says. Whatever rationale he uses to justify his decisions, it can’t be what he actually says… it just can’t be.
Can it?
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
So MadBum can't pitch?
Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG
by Useful_Idiot on May 9, 2010 11:27 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
lol
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
lawl
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on May 10, 2010 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
fire in the hole
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 10, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
TWHS!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on May 10, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
With decreased velocity and a new family on his mind,
Sabean should have plenty of time to outrun that grenade… and guess its location.
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
just had a thought
Sabean, though being an ass, just admitted that he subscribes to TINSTAAPP.
Adopted father of Eric Surkamp, the next great big-eared soft tossing lefty in SF Giants History!
This is an admission
“I have no idea what I am doing with regards to prospects. I don’t understand how they work.” -Brian Sabean
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
FUCKIN' PROSPECTS - HOW DO THEY WORK?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
by jponry on May 10, 2010 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
not very well
when chosen by Brain and managed by Botchy.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 10, 2010 7:28 AM PDT up reply actions
MIRACLES
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
rec'd, BTW
This is one of the most enlightening articles we’ve seen about the “thinking” used by the Giants to develop prospects.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
Yes! I, for one, am FURIOUS that they use scouts instead of just relying entirely on statistics. SABES UR AN IDIDDIOT!! OMG PLOTZ
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
You should be
considering the position player output. Unless you are a fan of the Blue Jays, Astros, or (maybe) Angels.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 10, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Nah. The Giants are doing just fine in moving guys into the majors right now. I’d like there to be a couple fewer vets in the way, but there’s six homegrown position players on the roster.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you forgot to count Eugenio
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 10, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
But moving guys into the majors has never been a problem
It’s playing those guys that is hit or miss
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
Most people in the business use a combination of the two
Sabean has just admitted that he uses only one side. When you throw away a useful tool, it’s not a very smart thing to do.
This is especially true when the man says this about his scouting:
and you better have a lot of people see ‘em at different times and write their reports and almost have a straw poll of private ballots.
How reliable does that sound? A straw poll of private ballots from as many different scouts as possible. Why private ballots? Does it have to do with the inherent unreliability of human observation? Perhaps there is some bias?
Besides that, this:
Because I don’t know what it means anymore, in the PCL.
just isn’t something you want to hear from the man in charge of your professional baseball organization.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
by thehavenot on May 10, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That last line makes me cringe. You’re being paid to know exactly what it does mean, Brian. Even if it means nothing, it’s your job to know that it means nothing. Instead, we get…..“I don’t know”. :(
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Reminds me of Simpsons where...
Homer starts to fall asleep during surgery and the last thing he hears is Dr. Nick Riviera saying, “What the hell is that?”
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Reminds me of real life where
HomerNoah Lowry starts to fall asleep during surgery and the last thing he hears is Dr. Nick Riviera saying, "What the hell is that?"
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
K.F.I.S.T.F.
Hoping for BowkerMania to get consistent playing time at AT&T Park
“Susan, what are all these… symbols… on this paper you handed me?”
“Those are the team’s statistics, Brian. They’re called numbers.”
“What do they mean? Are the Lakers on yet? I’m hungry. Where’s my beer? Who are you? Where is this? What are all these.. symbols… on this paper?”
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Ha! Love it.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on May 10, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I just don’t agree that he’s throwing stats out entirely.
I also don’t agree that the use of a consensus-generated scouting report is a bad thing at all. In fact, I’d much rather that than a singular opinion—I’d rather that than SABEAN’S singular opinion, certainly! (and as for private-vs.-public ballot, good grief, why do you care?)
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
It certainly seems like he’s throwing out AAA stats entirely. I don’t know about other stats, because he didn’t comment on AAA stats.
As for a consensus, that’s fine. I agree with you, actually. But what’s that crap about a secret ballot? I don’t really know what he’s talking about. It was that part of the quote that made me a little leary.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
One last thing...
Just for fun I decided to waste 30 minutes this morning and play with this handy MLE calculator I found on the internetz. I make no claim to be doing anything other than random sampling (on a very small scale). That said, it is interesting, and I learned a lot.
Buster has 241 ABs at Fresno over the past 2 seasons. During that time, he has hit .332/.411/.523. This predicts he would hit .283/.351/.429 in the equivalent number of ML at bats as a Giant.
But that does not help understand whether AA performance is somehow more predictive than AAA. So to do that, I took a younger player with some experience at both AA and AAA and ran him through. Said player hit .342/.418/.701 in 117 ABs in the PCL which would predict a line of .295/.359/.569 in the Majors. He also had 231 ABs in the Southern League where he hit .303/.367/.589 which would predict a ML line of .254/.306/.470. Repeat, this is not meant to be an exhaustive and statistically meaningful exercise (though someone with some time on one’s hands could easily perform such an exercise). So how has this player performed at the ML level and which experience, 117 ABs in AAA, or 231 ABs in AA, was more predictive of his actual numbers in the Majors? This player now has 1823 ML ABs and has a line of .312/.369/.576. This player is named Ryan Braun, and as you can see, his lousy 117 ABs in Nashville (in the PCL) were a near perfect predictor of his ML performance while his nearly 250 ABs in AA (OPS of .958) were not even close (predicted OPS of .776).
Anyway, be forewarned, this is a huge timewaster. You can take any line and see how a player would perform at any other level including college. The bottom line is, how hard would it have been for Sabean to make this very subtle point? The point being that PCL stats can predict ML performance just as stats from the EL can, one just has to adjust. In fact, someone with zero statistical training can perform said analysis in approximately 40 seconds using a handy-dandy thing called a computer. Instead, he said the whole exercise (MiLB) is basically worthless and they will decide when Posey is ready using their own secret special tools. It would also help if he described the tools, which I am told involve six overweight middle-aged men and 6 bottles of Jameson’s Irish Whiskey and a modified version of Pin the Tail on the Donkey…
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
I think part of Sabean's logic
comes from his own experience.
He has had several players destroy the PCL and come up to the Big Leagues and proceed to fumigate the clubhouse with the fowl stench of their play.
Feliz, Lindon, Niekro, Bowker, Schierholtz (granted he is looking more and more legit) and many more I am sure. As a result he just doesn’t trust AAA stats. It’s the kind of simple thinking that signals noted progress for a brain trauma patient, but this is a major league GM we are talking about.
None of the above mentioned have had the resume that Posey had coming into AAA? Each of them had their flaws. Posey has dominated every level of play, even going back to High School.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on May 10, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
There are other flaws in the comparisons
Feliz, for instance, didn’t “destroy” the PCL. He went .298/.337/.571 in 2000 which gives an MLE something like .260/.290/.470 . His MLB career line is .253/.291/.419 which is not that far off. Niekro was never that impressive in Fresno either; he won the starting job in 2005 after hitting .299/.339/.568 in 2004, which is essentially identical to Feliz’s 2000 line.
Linden had one big season in AAA, but it was his 3rd full year at that level. If you take the MLE for his aggregate stats over those 3 seasons (2003-2005) it comes out around .240/.305/.410.
Schierholtz’s first Fresno season translates to .291/.313/.469; not killer but 20+ points of OBP better than either Feliz or Niekro. His 2008 stats translate to .279/.309/.491.
The point being that the ‘burned by PCL stats before’ line doesn’t hold up to even the most basic analysis.
Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in...Anaheim?
by EliminateMe on May 10, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was going to say this.
It’s a common misconcetion among all the KNBR callers that Feliz, Ortmeier, Niekro etc were ‘great’ players in the minor leagues and that they stunk it up in the majors.
A bunch of these players weren’t very good in the major leagues, but they weren’t that special in the minor leagues either, so it shouldn’t have been such a surprise.
by AmorVincitOmnia on May 10, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow it actually works...
Niekro batted .298/.338/.482 in 6 seasons at AAA (should say enough itself) which translates to MLE of .260/.293/.403. His ML line was actually .246/.288/.421
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
Ha, pretty funny how well some of these MLE’s I’m seeing translated. Wait, you mean to tell me they’re based on historical averages of players switching between AAA and MLB….and they actually tell us what players do, on average, switching between AAA and MLB?!
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I honestly couldn't have quoted you the stats on any of those guys
and I wasn’t going to take the time to look them up, but the real point was to dot the “I” of Sabean’s flawed logic. I may have fallen into the “KNBR Caller” trap, but I think that the responses to my OP only strengthen my main point.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
Yeh..
I wasn’t calling you a KNBR caller.
I recognize your point was something different than what I decided to focus on.
by AmorVincitOmnia on May 10, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Does he have a point?
A lot of the uber-talented or majors-ready pitchers are in double-A and don’t spend much time in AAA before they reach the bigs. AAA is loaded with guys that are good ballplayers but not necessarily major leaguers, whereas the prospects that project to be top of the rotation starters are in and out of AAA very quickly.
I’m just throwing out ideas, trying to make sense of this.
Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG
Could he have said that or was he just too drunk?
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
No, I said that, it wasn’t a quote.
Wayne Rooney, 1/27/10: Cometh The Hour, Cometh The Man
Green and Gold Till the Club is Sold- LUHG
by Useful_Idiot on May 10, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I wasn’t saying that he did say it, I wondered whether he might have said it. In one short paragraph, you offered a concise and thoughtful explanation of why AAA batting stats might be inflated.
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
Because this idea of GMs as spokespeople for the team is pretty new. You don’t actually have to be well-spoken to be a good GM. If you think being able to speak well to the layman is necessary for professional aptitude, I would recommend you avoid getting operated on by a surgeon.
(not that I don’t think Sabes needs to be replaced with some young blood. But seriously, people—you’d rather believe he doesn’t know AAA is harder than AA than spend fifteen seconds contextualizing what he’s talking about?)
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
But he’s not just some random scout. I know plenty of surgeons who are as articulate as my 3 year old daughter. That they cannot speak does not itself affect their ability to operate. However, those surgeons will never (I hope) go on to positions of leadership such as Dept Chair or the like. Sabean is a manager. He is in a position where people listen to what he says, and as such, he actually does need to be careful with his words. If he does not like that, he should go back to being a scout.
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
I’m not going to work too hard to rebut this, because I’ve long believed Sabean has a fundamentally fucked communication that is hampering his ability to pull off trades, sign free-agents, and attend to personnel-management issues. But I still think speaking to the public is of less professional importance than we, the public, would like it to be.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Spacebat of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
by multiphasic on May 10, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
“Hello, is this the… who the fuck?… the Indians?”
“Yeah, Brian. We scheduled this conference call yesterday. You’re looking for a first-baseman.”
“Let’s make a deal. I’ll give you… who the fuck?… Ryan Sadowski for Ryan Garko.”
“You’re going to have to do a little better than that.”
“But all these players fucking suck! I’m not even going to keep this… who the… Garko?… asshole for more than a few months. Just take somebody from the PCL.”
“How about Scott Barnes?”
“Done.”
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
“Susan, does New Delhi have a baseball team?”
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on May 10, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
“Susan, if you go to New Delhi and there isn’t a baseball team, can you at least make yourself useful and get me some black forest ham?”
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
"Scratch that"
“Bring me a salami sandwich from the nearest deli! I’ll give them a pitcher and cash for it!”
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
yes, and this line of thinking has been around for many years. But when Sabean says it, he does so in an arrogant and insulting way that pisses off a lot of people.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 10, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL BUSTER
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on May 10, 2010 10:03 AM PDT reply actions
Whever he says things like this I really wonder how he still has a job.
This man is paid to run a major league baseball franchise yet at least once a month he is badmouthing his own players or prospects.
Seriously, wtf is going on with Bow Tie?
YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DESTROY THE SITH SABEAN NOT JOIN THEM!
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.
#2 in Fanshots
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
the chosen one :'(
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 10, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
He was supposed to bring balance to the lineup, not destroy it.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
So, we can expect him to keep Buster in AAA all season just to fuck with us right?
I’LL SHOW YOU SERVICE TIME!
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on May 10, 2010 11:23 AM PDT reply actions
And now my serious comment
“Let me dispel all that, all right?” Sabean said. “When we think Posey’s ready, just like when we thought (Tim) Lincecum was ready, and this starts from ownership, he’ll be in the big leagues.”
From this, it becomes really apparent that it has everything to do with service time. Sabean just isn’t allowed to say so.
His only choice is to grab his butt cheeks and flap them like lips when talking to the press about Posey.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on May 10, 2010 11:38 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Really, if service time doesn’t have anything to do with it (that 17 ab month last season is delaying this even more!) why does the decision start with ownership? Maybe Sabes is ownerships puppet, a la Omar Minaya
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on May 10, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Sabean has a stake in the team, but he also answers to a board of directors/investors. He’s as much of a puppet as any CEO in a company, who is responsible to shareholders.
/looks around to make sure feigning financial knowledge worked out
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I understand, but most GM’s have autonomy in their jobs for 99% of decisions, otherwise why would we have a GM. What I was refering to was the allegations the Wilpon (Mets owner) is the one behind the scenes making these bizarre trade/roster moves that have been attributed to Minaya
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on May 10, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Ah, I see. Personally, I don’t equate financially-motivated decisions (especially when it involves NOT doing something) with straight up bad moves, but you might be referring to Sabean’s off-season acquisitions as being ownership-motivated. Huff, DeRosa and Molina all smelled Sabeany, but maybe that’s just my nose.
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
IAWTC
And I’m actually pretty darned okay with this decision as a cost-saving measure BECAUSE the Giants are just fine at the position Buster would play. But the way this went down, it’s basically, “No, honey, you’re not getting a Playstation for your birthday. And why would you want one anyone? Everybody who plays one is a fat, pathetic virgin slob who will die alone in their mother’s basement… and I won’t be having any of that, son.”
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
So wait...
…what Sabean was trying to dispel (from context) is the notion that Posey is not being brought up for service time considerations. And from the fact that he mentions ownership, you interpret it to mean exactly the opposite?
I think we have ample evidence that Sabean is a pretty inartful speaker. Reading that much into one parenthetical phrase doesn’t make sense.
Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in...Anaheim?
by EliminateMe on May 10, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
From this, it becomes really apparent that it has everything to do with service time. Sabean just isn’t allowed to say so.
And that makes sense, no GM would come out and say that. It just doesn’t seem it’s that hard to me to talk about how his defense is imrpoving but still not where it needs to be yet, that he just needs experience behind the plate. This is such a GM’ing 101 problem, c’mon Sabes!
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
he can’t say that. No team exec can say that. I believe the union would probably file a grievance if they made it obvious.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 10, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
WTF
OK this pushed me over the tipping point. I now firmly believe that anything we win will be done despite the best efforts of Sabean and Bochy.
So do you discount the minor league track record?
“Yeah, you do,” Bochy said
This quote especially frustrated me, I mean hell Bochy and Sabean probably “discount the minor league track record” and still think Charlie Culberson, Jackson Williams, and Wendell Fairley will be the future middle of the order line up.
These guys are idiots that are running the Giants into the ground.
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
K.F.I.S.T.F.
Hoping for BowkerMania to get consistent playing time at AT&T Park
by Gobroks on May 10, 2010 12:13 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
But is this really that different...
…at least with the rest of the statement for context, to what some folks here have said about Bowker, for instance? That he had changed his approach last year in Fresno and therefore his pre-2009 OBP should be discounted?
Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in...Anaheim?
by EliminateMe on May 10, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I doubt anyone has said that
Bowker’s pre-2009 performance should be ‘discounted’.
I’m sure it’s implied that his post-2009 AAA performance should be weighed more than his pre-2009 AAA performance, but to discount everything before 2009 would be ridiculous.
I’m one of the biggest Bowker supporters and I’d never say or believe such a thing.
by AmorVincitOmnia on May 10, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
That's a season's worth of data though
not 50 random PAs
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Garrett Broshuis Weighs In
Again, I don’t know the guy at all, so I can’t vouch for his mental stability, and I can’t tell you whether or not he has a proclivity for listening to Michael Buble. But I can tell you that this was not a smart statement.
Proud of both my adopted son, Baggs, and my ward, Ryan LOLlis.
by grape on May 10, 2010 12:18 PM PDT reply actions 6 recs
with this link...
http://minorleaguelife.blogspot.com/2010/05/triple-and-sabean.html
Proud of both my adopted son, Baggs, and my ward, Ryan LOLlis.
Awesome.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
man, i love that guy
Broshius, I mean. Not grape. Although grape seems pretty OK too.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
I like the flavor.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
It's Abu Grape you have to watch out for
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 10, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
one of the lesser-known Emirates
overshadowed by Abu Dhabi
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 10, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm meh on Mike Bubbly but I do like Sade Abu.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on May 11, 2010 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I can't take this blog seriously as this minor leaguer NEVER PLAYED THE GAME
and has no big-league experience, therefore, he is just like all the other bloggers out there.
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Btw, the above statement is 100% sarcasm.
I 100% enjoyed that post.
by Every6thDay on May 10, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
<3 Garrett
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Yay!
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow.
Sure I played in the minor leagues for 6 years in the Giants’ organization, but I never had any contact with the general manager. Why would I? I was in the minor leagues. I was useless.
Wow.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
Every right to be pissed
You’d think Sabes might, you know, realize that at least one former farmhand might be a sportswriter now and pick up on this.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
I emailed with him a while back
Garrett Broshuis is a cool dude.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
GB gets it
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 10, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
The mods seem to be liking this so...
I like this!
Here’s proof that these statements are upsetting Giants farmhands.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
I'm glad he's still blogging
Adopted father of Eric Surkamp, the next great big-eared soft tossing lefty in SF Giants History!
by Speedforthewin on May 10, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
what it's all about
Sabean said that Posey “is on the fast track and Bengie’s clock is winding down.”
he’s just trying not to upset Bengie after what Bengie said recently. And he’s an arrogant fuck.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on May 10, 2010 12:58 PM PDT reply actions
This reminds me of how I felt when W was President
For 8 years, I struggled with two competing thoughts: 1) How could someone so incredibly stupid be in a job so incredibly important? And 2) It is impossible for someone so stupid to be in this or any other job. So the truth is that he is really the smartest person in the world for making himself seem so incredibly dumb that the rest of the world spends all its time and energy talking about how dumb he is while he just does whatever he wants.
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
P.S. I swear that is Sabean next to him in the stands
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
Is that Fidel Castro behind Will Farrel?
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
nice
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on May 10, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually don't think Brian Sabean is stupid
Neither do I think that GWB was or is stupid.
I just think that BS is not very good at running a professional baseball organization.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
Personally, nothing I’ve seen indicates to me that either of them have a very sound thought process, even if someone like GWB is obviously well educated and such…
Of course, I’ve also never met either of them.
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I figured that would be popular. I am in the process of composing a piece on religions of the world now…
Adopted Nut: Paraparaumu, New Zealand native, Andy Skeels
Haha, OK
I don’t totally agree with your opinion, but I respect your right to say it. I just don’t think it was necessary.
Going right after World Religions? Not enough domestic issues for you? :)
Insanity is just a state of mind.
What A Portrait Of The Collective Arragance And Ignorance Of The McCoven.
Did any of you haters for one minute even consider the possibility and look for evidence that Sabean might be right?
I very much doubt that any of you did as all this bitching shows me that you are not open to anything that does not support your collective opinion that everything Sabean does is wrong and whenever anything works out that Sabean does it is pure luck.
Lulz
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I dont want to...
be overly supportive of GRM’s statement RE: Sabean, but you have to admit that both the Giants skipper, and the Grizzlies skipper are former big league catchers, and should generally know what it takes to be a big league catcher, and probably have conferred and told Sabean their thoughts on his development as a catcher.
Uncle Sabes...How much longer til we get there?
This is all beside the point
The real point is that Sabean is incredibly incapable when it comes to answering pointed questions about his decisions and evaluation. Not that he owes us that, he just has no clue how to respond to those questions.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
Yes, Sabean...
Is well noted for N O T being a PR guy. He says things casually and non-chalantly when he should clearly think through what he is saying, especially when he is answering questions to the media. But this is who he is, I think he rather prides himself on being a “off the cuff, not caring what others think of me” kinda speaker. i kinda get the idea that he thinks that a lot of us are ingrateful for the job that he does. He just let’s it get the better of him sometimes when he speaks, and it colors how he lets things get out without thinking. This Is Sabean. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t know how to evaluate talent or, at least, that he doesn’t know how to hire good evaluation people. Barr and Co. have clearly been evaluating and promoting good talent, and good talent evaluators best as their ability and superiors let them. It’s all a team effort.
I dont want anyone here to think that I appreciate or agree with some of what Bork has done with the MLB roster, but he and I obviously see different things, and have different experiences, and know different sets of information.
Uncle Sabes...How much longer til we get there?
But that’s not what Sabean’s saying. He’s saying pitching in AAA is lousy, and so Posey’s good hitting stats might not mean anything. That is not only wrong – as Missing Barry actually did take the time to prove in this very thread – but also directly insulting to his two biggest prospects and indirectly insulting to his entire farm system.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I mean, he’s not even talking about Posey’s defense. He’s actually going out of his way to badmouth Posey’s bat as a reason to keep him down, which is something that is contrary to the line they’ve been reading about his AAA service up to this point.
Insulting. Incorrect. Self-Contradictory. That’s really all it is.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly...
I think that some of his statements are based on his evaluations of how hitting talent has come through from AAA to MLB, on protecting Bengie’s feelings and clubhouse attitudes RE: how both Posey and Bengie were treated in August last year, and also rumblings that Bengie might be hurt, so we’re gonna bring up Posey in the present. I think Sabean’s trying to protect so many hen houses (Bengie’s feelings, public outcries for Posey, Posey’s ego) that the ones that are left exposed end up being the ones that he thought were secure in the first place (minor league pitching). He definitely screwed the pooch in throwing the MiLB affliates under the bus, but he wouldn’t be saying these things if he wasn’t getting pressure from both sides (Exec’s and Players). I would figure he is the whistle on the teapot in this conundrum.
Uncle Sabes...How much longer til we get there?
He really should just give us less moronic BS.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 10, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
What A Portrait Of The Collective Arragance And Ignorance Of giantsrainman.
Do you for one minute even consider the possibility and look for evidence that Sabean might be wrong?
I very much doubt that any of you did as all this bitching shows me that you are not open to anything that does not support your opinion that everything Sabean does is fine and whenever anything works out that Sabean does it is pure genius.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on May 10, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.
#2 in Fanshots
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
My first Green.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on May 11, 2010 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Just More Proof Of The Bias And Lack Of Openmindedness Here.
by giantsrainman on May 12, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions
lol we’re all biased about Cody_ransom.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on May 12, 2010 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions
No, But You Are Biased About The Content Of Cody's Greened Post.
Like Cody you minds are closed to opinions outside of your groupthink.
by giantsrainman on May 12, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
You Tell Them, Girlfriend
It is very sad how their groupthink causes them not to agree with everything the team’s front office does. They cannot even see how the box that encapsulates them with its “facts” and “evidence” and and “reasoned discourse” and “rational arguments.”
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
by Outside The Box Thinking on May 13, 2010 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Is the collective McC reading too much into this? Probably. Question for you, though – what are your thoughts on Garrett Broshius’ reaction? We can speculate all day long about how a minor league will or won’t take this stuff and whether that’s really what Sabean meant or not….but we do have an example of one guy who took it poorly and seemed to think Sabean was badmouthing the farm system….so what do you think of the comments? It seems to me unnecessary and just not very good management skills on Sabean’s part – what’s even the point of making statements like this?
by Missing Barry on May 10, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would think...
like in my statements above… that:
a.) Sabean’s a little miffed about how every time something happens to Bengie, be it small injury or dip in performance, he has to
1.) Quell the masses calling for Posey, because he is performing as he should, and he is “the anointed one”.
2.) Quell the sniveling that Molina is doing because the masses are calling for Posey.
b.) Sabean clearly thinks that we, as fans, are the ultimate back seat driver, or Monday AM QB’s. and we snivel and whine, like Molina, and it’s annoying.
c.) Sabean let’s his remarks get colored by A and B when he answers questions to the media about Posey, and why isn’t he here yet?
d.) Sabean himself is aware of, and tired of A B and C, and doesn’t want to have to deal with the drama associated with a clearly thought out decision by him and his best talent evaluators, and the politics of trying to keep everyone happy.
Uncle Sabes...How much longer til we get there?
by NorCalGiant on May 10, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah, every time I hear him interviewed on KNBR, he sounds annoyed.
I just figured it was because he had to talk to Ralph Barbieri
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
I Have Always Questioned Sabean's Tact In His Public Statements And I Do Here As Well
I agree with Garrett Broshius that Sabean should of found the words is convey his message that the delay in bring up Buster Posey had nothing to do with Buster’s aribtration clock without risking unnecessarily offending Posey.
That said, I do not see Buster Posey as being a weak individual that will be negatively effected by any of this.
by giantsrainman on May 10, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
This.
but you do have to keep said player humble and aware of the politics that are surrounding his position and that, honestly, he should be encouraged that his play is creating such a hullaballoo for others to deal with; if he weren’t doing well, this issue wouldn’t keep coming up.
But honestly, Posey’s feelings aren’t really the main factor here, it’s the whole AAA team, who Sabean just said was total crap, org filler, just working and toiling away, because, well Sabean doesn’t think that AAA stats are worth a damn. But keep winning and putting forth your best effort for MiLB minimum, and the dream that you’ll EVAR fill a MLB roster!!!!!
Uncle Sabes...How much longer til we get there?
*cough* FLew, Frannie *cough*
Uncle Sabes...How much longer til we get there?
by NorCalGiant on May 10, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
important point
He really didn’t make the point that the team was crap, just that it was crap in relation to the big leagues.
I’m not an expert on MiLB, but it seems to me that the jump in talent you see from AAA to MLB is far greater than any of the jumps within the minor leagues.
If that’s what Sabean was trying to say albeit in a less than tactful way, I think he’s right.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
He didn't actually say that either
What he said was:
Triple-A baseball isn’t very good. I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big leagues. Most of the prospect arms, the stuff that really can neutralize hitters, are at Double-A.
He may well have meant relative to the majors, but that’s not what he said.
Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in...Anaheim?
Congratulations
and welcome to the MCC groupthink.
Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in...Anaheim?
Having An Obvious Weakness Is Not The Same As Just Being Bad Period.
And the later is what the groupthink seems to be on Sabean with zero willingness to consider any evidence to the contrary.
by giantsrainman on May 10, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Yet you painted this thread as a portrait of our "collective arrogance and ignorance"...
…when 90%(*) of the complaints here are specifically about Sabean’s tact in his public statements, which you just said you agree with.
You’re so convinced we are all blind Sabean haters that anything we say is taken as proof of it.
(*) this figure courtesy of the jcb9 statistics bureau.
Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in...Anaheim?
I See Less The Half As Being About Tack
The majority of the attacks are about the decisions not this statement.
by giantsrainman on May 10, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
You are wrong
Or you are reading an entirely different thread.
I just rescanned this whole friggin thread (somebody owes me ten minutes of my life back) and I didn’t see anyone ripping on Sabean for the decision to keep Posey in AAA. I may have missed one or two. What I did see were a whole lot of variants on capn’s:
The issue with Sabean is that he did a terrible job justiying what is an entirely justifiable case.
Or jponry’s:
The thing I don’t get is why he thinks it’s necessary to say things like this.
Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in...Anaheim?
As I Said, A Few.
But most are ripping the decision Sabean has made that Buster is not yet ready.
by giantsrainman on May 10, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
No they're not.
You are just plain wrong.
Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in...Anaheim?
If He Used His Eyes Instead Of His Preconceived Biases He Would See This!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I had to laugh at the Rainman's entry into this.
Really, GRM, thank you for that.
You made real every parody ever posted.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on May 11, 2010 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I think that's what most people here are ripping on Sabean for
The way he said it, not what he said
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
A Few But Not Most
Most are riping the decisions not the statements.
by giantsrainman on May 10, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
While we're on the subject...
I want to ripe the clothes off a beautiful woman.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
clothes are better when ripened
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 10, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you’re the one who’s biased here. Most of the comments don’t say anything either way. A lot of others talk about the fact that Buster’s MLEs aren’t as good as what Molina and Whiteside are hitting. A lot of people are talking about the fact that there are perfectly good reasons beyond service time to keep Buster down and wondering why Sabean isn’t talking about those. A lot of people are more miffed that he’s insulting the farm system rather than angry that Buster isn’t in the majors. Hell, I think almost everyone (at this point) would agree that at the moment there’s not really a place for Buster in the majors.
You like to accuse us all of bias constantly, so I’m going to do it here. You’re saying the McCoven are ripping Sabean for keeping Buster down in AAA because you’re biased against us and you are looking for a reason to criticize the McCoven, even if the facts don’t back it up.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
FOR THE SWARM!!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on May 10, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Sabean's teams are rank(ed) offensively the last 5 years in OPS+:
2009: 30th
2008: 30th
2007: 30th
2006: 23rd
2005: 29th
Is that getting close to a large enough sample size?
Sabean lived off of Bonds’ production for a long time, and now he’s been exposed as a one trick pony, although that one trick is inarguably pretty. So I don’t trust anything that comes out of his mouth about developing young offensive players.
He should be a pitching scout for the organization, and we should get a GM that understands both sides of the equation.
I've got squirrels in my pants!
The Giants are the only team
to finish in the bottom 5 of NL offenses 5 years running. Not even the Pirates or Nats can make that claim.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on May 14, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
not sure if anybody already posted
But our boy Garrett Broshuis commented as well
Puking Orange and Black since 1981
Proud member of Sabean's "lunatic fringe" or in other words, "vast majority"
link fail
http://minorleaguelife.blogspot.com/
Puking Orange and Black since 1981
Proud member of Sabean's "lunatic fringe" or in other words, "vast majority"
WHERE’S THE OUTRAGE FROM HANK SCHULMAN
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on May 11, 2010 9:49 AM PDT reply actions
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