Pat Burrell
by Michael Uhlhorn on May 30, 2010 11:37 AM PDT
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PrintIs Officially a Giant. Only 300k to sign him if he makes the majors and he reportedly can opt out after two weeks. What do ya'll think? Will he be able to make an impact in the NL again, or is he just another Ryan Garko who comes at a lesser price?
Personally, I think the man will be great if he makes the team. He adds a solid bat off the bench and can really help us with home run power, but I don't see him as a starter.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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If Bochy wasn’t in charge it would be fine. I predict Burrell is the guy who will keep Posey on the bench despite hitting only .240 because the Bochster loves his veteran intangibles.
"Nothing takes the taste out of peanut butter quite like unrequited love."
by cybermaldonado on May 30, 2010 11:43 AM PDT reply actions
This^2
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Sadly...This again.
Sometimes it’s hard to be a Giants fan.
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Wow, 2 weeks seems like too short a time for him to work on his swing. I guess it’s just an escape hatch for him if things don’t go well. There’s nothing in the contract that forces him to press the issue if he’s not ready in 2 weeks.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I guess it might work out. By the numbers at least, he doesn’t look any worse than Aubrey Huff did half a year ago.
Are they planning to play him at first or in left?
My guess is when the Giants think he is ready
Burrell goes to LF and Huff moves back to 1B. Buster goes back to Fresno.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
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by Lars The Wanderer on May 30, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he should get some reps at 1st
that way if (when?) Huff regresses we can at least have a platoon.
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Hoping for BowkerMania to get consistent playing time at AT&T Park
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. Against lefties, Huff isn’t even close to being a decent first-base bat.
Bull
Have you even seen one of his ABs against lefties? Have you even looked up his splits this year?
by giantsrainman on May 30, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you really think a .750 OPS is close to being a decent first base bat against lefties? Or have you not looked up his splits this year either?
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It Is More Then Ok In The Context Of The Alternatives
by giantsrainman on May 31, 2010 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions
But if we do end up with Burrell as an option against LHP, that alternative will likely be better than a .750 OPS
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
These grm dialogues are just priceless.
me: Huff sucks against lefties; let’s get him a platoon partner.
grm: No, he doesn’t.
groug: Yes, he does, see the stats?
grm: But he’s still better than the alternative.
jponry: That’s why we’re talking about finding an alternative.
grm: D’oh!
The last line is always silent, of course.
You forgot the line where grm tells you to look up stats that….support your opinion. ;)
by Missing Barry on May 31, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Not necessarily.
Platoons are usually a bad idea, and one reason is that the LH-hitting half gets only about 1/3 play time (as about 2/3 of IP are by RHP), and so the negative offset from lack of playing time adequate to maintain full output tends to (roughly speaking) about cancel out the gain from the platoon differential (which is usually figured on a man’s FT play stats).
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Out of curiosity, what is “adequate” playing time in order to maintain full or at least close to full productivity? 66% of the starts? 75% of the starts? Some other amount?
by Missing Barry on May 31, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Hard to be exact.
For the study I did, I divided them so: 400 or more PAs, and 300 or fewer PAs. I omitted the 300-400 block to avoid silliness like a guy with 347 being in one category while a guy with 352 would be in another. I didn’t break it down any finer because getting adequate sample numbers was hard enough to begin with. (I needed guys with at least two years 400+ and two years 300- with the last, I forget, five or six years.) So it’s roughly “half time”, but that’s about it.
Whether there’s some sort or proportionality or a fairly well-defined break point is hard to say, but it’s worth keeping in mind the old baseball adage:
One day off, and you notice it. Two days off and your teammates notice it. Three days off and the fans notice it.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
I do think it’s an interesting topic. I’d be really interested in a more in depth study if someone ever did one. It’s not something I can remember ever coming across in my interweb readings.
by Missing Barry on May 31, 2010 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Nor I.
Even 15 years later. I imagine a more comprehensive attack, using decades’ worth of player data, might come out with slightly different numbers than I got, but I strongly suspect that the basic idea of a really big difference would remain sound.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Platoons are usually a bad idea
That’s unconventional thinking, even in today’s geekland, isn’t it? Do you know of any studies published online?
"The questions are so stupid. I don't believe in rivalries. I don't believe in curses. Wake up the damn Bambino, maybe I'll drill him in the ass."
- Pedro Martinez, asked about the Curse of the Bambino
For his career his split is about 30 points of wOBA more against RHP. That’s a big difference. This year it’s been more pronounced than that, but that’s not particularly relevant because one year of splits are useless. Even a 2-3 years of splits are generally useless. It does support the notion that Huff isn’t even close to a decent first-base bat against LHP.
by Missing Barry on May 31, 2010 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Burrell will not get in Posey's way.
Bochy said he’ll be an off-the-bench bat in the big leagues.
Bandwagoners are the prostitutes of fandom.
Bochy says a lot of things...
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
K.F.I.S.T.F.
Hoping for BowkerMania to get consistent playing time at AT&T Park
This
See also: Bowker will not be a platoon in RF
01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey
Wave them home Tim Flannery, wave them home.
To be fair, Bowker is not platooning in RF anymore
…because he’s not playing anymore
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
K.F.I.S.T.F.
Hoping for BowkerMania to get consistent playing time at AT&T Park
Hmmm
Torres has earned a starting spot, and Posey needs to play everyday which (unfortunately) means he’s playing 1B and Huff is in LF. That leaves RF and Rowand, Bowker and Nate. Rowand is slumping right now, and Nate has been playing well, which means he should probably get a lot of reps in RF, though I still am not sold on his long term potential. But if he is banged up that narrows it down between Bowker and Rowand, and it depends whether or not you go with more defense (Rowand) or offensive upside (Bowker).
I do think that Bochy completely mismanaged Bowker, by naming the starter, then never playing him against lefties and once he didn’t become a SSS All Star, benched him.
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
K.F.I.S.T.F.
Hoping for BowkerMania to get consistent playing time at AT&T Park
Bowker, like every other young player, was completely mismanaged. Also, can we please not play Huff in LF? So stupid. Ugh. Or Posey at 1B. I hate how this team is run so much.
by Missing Barry on May 31, 2010 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
No.
So long as Bengie sits there, literally fat and happy,
the only way Posey plays is at 1B. Since we cannot afford to omit Huff’s bat, he is in LF.
Were “we” literally we, that would not be the case; but it is what it is.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Sigh. We have two of the best young C’s in baseball. They’re playing our corner infield for us. We have a useful, but still not very good 1B who plays below average 1B defense and so far has hit well but probably won’t be much more than a bit above average at the plate going forward. Obviously he’s playing LF. Our two biggest FA signings were both old and hurt when we signed them. We brought Bengie back. So frustrating……..
by Missing Barry on May 31, 2010 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Also I find it interesting
that to this point our 2 most productive signings were Aubrey Huff, who has been a pleasant surprise, but at this point in his career he is a stop gap at best, and Juan Uribe who was signed to be a utility guy.
The two most expensive guys we signed have yet to take the field together (BTW does anyone else foresee K&K saying next year that 2011 will be the first time we see a “healthy” Mark DeRosa?)
And Bengie Molina is hindering the Giants.
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
K.F.I.S.T.F.
Hoping for BowkerMania to get consistent playing time at AT&T Park
Yeah Huff is a ticking time bomb in LF
Posey does not look comfortable at 1st.
But I have a huge problem with Bowker. IIRC he OPS’d over .900 last year in AAA, after working with the current hitting coach and changing his approach. But instead of giving him a legit shot they platooned him with Torres, who at the beginning of the year was basically a 5th OF, and when Bowker didn’t OPS over .900 in his first 5 AB’s he gets benched for Nate.
Now, to be fair, Bochy shouldn’t have used ST stats to determine who’s starting, but if Bowker is going to start, then let him start.
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
K.F.I.S.T.F.
Hoping for BowkerMania to get consistent playing time at AT&T Park
The way they handled Bowker was mind boggling. If they didn’t think he could hack it, why ever declare him the starter? If they thought he deserved a legitimate shot, why would they not actually give him that shot? Whatever they were going to do, there was a way to do it that made sense….but of course, we do things the Giants Way™!
by Missing Barry on Jun 1, 2010 6:50 AM PDT up reply actions
If . . .
. . . by “ticking time bomb” you mean that he’s actually awful, i don’t think so. He hasn’t been tested hard, but he has had some testing. One was a ball trickily wind-carried back that he caught neatly at the wall. Rather harder and more indicative was a shot that would have been ordinary but was coming straight out of a complicated pattern of bright sun and shadow (from a lighting standard), which he fought through for the catch. I suspect that what he can get to he will catch: it will be his range that will occasionally be the limitation.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
I think his defense will decline quickly
I’m not comfortable with a 1B who is, at the very least, in the twilight of his career-, to be a LF. So far his defense has been fine, but I don’t think it’s sustainable.
Proud father of Mike Krukow (who is more than 3 times my age)
Grab Some Pine, Meat
K.F.I.S.T.F.
Hoping for BowkerMania to get consistent playing time at AT&T Park
Yeah . . .
. . . and he’s a lousy 1B, too, it says here. Apparently he hasn’t read wherever “here” is. We will see what we will see in the fullness of time. I’m not making a strenuous assertion that he’ll be fine, but I repeat that SSS eyeball examination suggests that he can catch what he can get to.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
The publicly available fielding metrics out there really don’t like his OF defense. -20.3 runs below average in just over 1900 innings in RF for UZR, -32 runs by TotalZone in that same sample size…..
by Missing Barry on Jun 1, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think its quite so much that he’ll squeeze Buster through playing time as it is that he’ll squeeze him via roster spots. If the Giants refuse to play Buster essentially fills the role of RHH 1B and LF (with Huff’s ability to move to LF) Burrell would play pretty much the exact same role, and I doubt there’s room for more than one of them on a roster that already has 2 other 1B. Its just hard to envision a roster with Burrell, Huff, Ishikawa and Posey and Posey is the only one with options.
Thing A
I would keep him only as a pinch hitter like Mark Sweeney
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he hit a bomb today for Fresno
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by nostocksjustbonds on May 30, 2010 5:14 PM PDT reply actions
Our biggest problem is hitting with runs in scoring position late in the game
Burrel could do that. He can hit for power and be useful
"Who Wants some pudding pops?, delicious and nutritious!
you do realize hitting with runners in scoring position is luck based, not skill based, right?
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Well, techincally it's skill based
But it’s based on the hitters basic skill mostly, not some hidden clutch ability.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Burrell hasn’t been much of a hitter since 2008.
by Missing Barry on May 31, 2010 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions
you is back in the minor leagues.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jun 1, 2010 2:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Banned
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on May 31, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
completely different hitter than Huff
If Ishi still played he would have improved and so would Bowker. Freddie freakin Lewis is hitting a ton better than Aaron Rowand, you KNow cousin Freddie that we gave away, vs Aaron Rowand for whom we emptied the vault of all the money remaining after the Zito contract. Now that Timmy is getting big bucks he is forgetting how to pitch. Someone better check the ganja.
Burrell is Sabean's new bright shiny object
what is really needed is to sit Rowand and Molina.
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