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It's time to be a fan again


Throughout this off season (and spring training), us Giants fans have been a much divided bunch. To Fred Lewis or not to Fred Lewis? Do I Bowker when I've just met her? Up with the Posey or down with the Posey? Every move by the front office is watched, scrutinized, and debated with 5000 words ( /travis ishikawa)

 

There is a genuine belief amongst Giants fans that the front office and its existing personnel (Bochy, Sabean) is incapable of apply modern statistical analysis to baseball, that RBI carries more weight than wOBA, and that 40 at bats is enough to judge a hitter by. I cannot argue with you.

 

  • I did not like the Bengie Molina signing. I think we wasted 4.5M on a catcher that is not expected to do better than the one we have catching in AAA, that made more outs than anybody else in baseball last season.
  • I did not particularly enjoy watching Aubrey Huff play first base in spring training, and knowing what Adam LaRoche ultimately signed for in Arizona, I can't help but feel there is something we could have done to end up with a better first baseman for opening day.
  • I cringed when I read Hank Schulman's post on Fred Lewis.
  • I had a sad when I saw MadBum's velocity this spring and how his stock has slipped by almost everybody's rankings.

 

Now, starting today, I am going to do my best to shut up about everything I just pointed out. Why, you ask?

 

Because I am going to be a FAN again. When I saw Barry Bonds jump on top of the dugout roof in 1997 after clinching the west, I didn't understand wOBA, I thought Clutch Hitting was the most important thing in baseball, that Runs + RBI - HR is the most important stat, and OMG DINGERZ. Yet it did not detract from how much I enjoyed getting sprayed on by Barry and the team after the game with my "bring on the fish" poster in my hands.

 

I was a Fan then, I am a Fan now. But somehow, the accumulated knowledge and understanding of the game has made me enjoy the game less. I guess you can chalk one up for "ignorance is bliss."

 

What want to say is, starting today, none of that matters. We have baseball again. The Orange and Black are back on the field, and starting Monday, they are playing for the 2010 world series and every game counts. Regardless of how I feel about Brian Sabean, about Aubrey Huff, about Freddy Sanchez's extension, I am going to cheer for every one of them. I am going to hope to God that we win the world series and Sabean gets a 5 year extension. I am going to cheer for Huff to hit 30 bombs and end the season with a OPS of .900. I am going to give Freddy Sanchez an ovation when he finally takes the field.

 

I am going to stop being a scout and be a fan again. Starting today. Cause April is here, and it's time to play ball.

 

 

Now I put together this little video. Hopefully the female audience in MCC appreciates this effort. I will be back with more Hot Korean Girls next time.

 

To The Giants -- It's you. You are the one I chose, and you are the one I'll always choose. It's you.

 

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Comments

Display:

OMG SUPER JUNIOR!!!

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Apr 4, 2010 12:00 AM PDT reply actions  

Wow, I haven’t thought about them in awhile.

I’m glad to see Choi Si Won is still ridiculously good looking.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Apr 4, 2010 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Damn you got in here fast. It’s like your spider sense told you SUJU INC or something :O

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Apr 4, 2010 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Haha, I started the video and I was like, “wow, there sure are a lot of dudes there, I wonder if it’s SuJu” and then it said they were and I was like, “:D!”

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Apr 4, 2010 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

suck it, russell fuckin’ martin

by Youdamanrp on Apr 4, 2010 12:50 AM PDT reply actions  

I know our love is wrong.

I think I made a dent around 1:30 with all the replays.

jctGamer, fanatic extraordinaire.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

by victor frankenstein on Apr 4, 2010 1:46 AM PDT reply actions  

Thanks dude.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Apr 4, 2010 8:10 AM PDT reply actions  

I’m a huge FAN (for god sakes I spend too much time posting about a sports team on the INTERNET) too, but

But somehow, the accumulated knowledge and understanding of the game has made me enjoy the game less

Is the complete opposite for me. Anyhow, go Giants!

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Apr 4, 2010 8:42 AM PDT reply actions  

I’m with this guy.

There does seem to be a perception that STATS take the fun out of the game. And for some people, like jctgamer, I’m sure they do. They really don’t for me. I can’t imagine how joyless my life would be if I didn’t think Fred Lewis was a good player….

But that doesn’t mean that I won’t hope and baseballpray and cheer for every last damn Bengie Molina at bat. That doesn’t mean that I’m not waiting with baited breath to see how much better Renteria is going to be now that he has a new bionic elbow. Hell, I’ll be pulling for Huff even harder than he pulls on himself. I’ll be perfectly irrational.

But when Velez hits .345/.427/.500 in April, I might choose to be a little less excited about that than most…..

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Apr 4, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bated? I guess so.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Apr 4, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought you were saying your breath smelled like day old sardines.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Apr 4, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bated

Howie, you are the mastur

Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: Better than any SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010

by Gobroks on Apr 4, 2010 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I draw a parallel to looking at a magic trick. When you understand the optical illusion behind it, it is much less satisfying.

When Cain got off to the fantastic start last year, two things were constantly in the back of my mind that prevented me from fully enjoying it. Regression to the mean and BABIP. In the back of my mind I always knew it wasn’t real and he’s going to slow up in the 2nd half.

This is not to say I don’t appreciate FIP and BABIP. Just this year (at least at the beginning of the year) I would like to throw the projections out of the window and try to enjoy baseball as a fan instead of worrying about whether Matt Cain’s fastball has lost a couple of MPH and that his K/BB ratio isn’t indicative of a true ace.

For awhile at least. When we are 6 games back in June, I’ll be my normal bitchy self again.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Apr 4, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

I understand, and I’m not trying to criticize you. We all enjoy different things about the game and take different things out of the stuff we learn about the game. I just wanted to give my FAN experience a little play.

I’m also the kind of person who likes magic tricks more once he knows how they’re done (unless they’re stupid). So, there’s also that.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Apr 4, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

You don’t have to be a stats maniac to know that things even out over the course of the long season. If some very average vet gets off to a great start, you don’t have to have a degree in sabermetrics to know it ain’t gonna last.

Dumped Edgar Renteria and adopted Buster Posey. Biggest upgrade since George Jefferson moved up to a deluxe apartment on the east side!

by rxmeister on Apr 4, 2010 11:35 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

The parallel to me is my appreciation of movies and TV shows. I tend to notice editing rhythms, shot composition, lighting techniques etc., and when i complain about those kinds of things (not to mention basic plot logic) many people I know say I’m just too critical and I must not be able to enjoy movies at all if I’m picking them apart constantly.

But I guess my feeling is the movies I do enjoy I enjoy much more because I’m appreciating them at a lot of different levels (that’s also why I like watching the same movie multiple times), and I have dozens and dozens of “a-ha” or whatever sound conveys awed and delighted amazement. And while it’s true that I can be pretty critical of movies that seem hacked together by the numbers, I never go into a theatre without the excited anticipation that I’m just about to be blown away (except maybe in July and August in DC, when i’m frequently just looking for air conditioning). That said, I also never miss the Coming Attractions, so that just in case the movie I see stinks, I can still walk away with some hope that I might see some other great movie “coming soon.”

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Apr 5, 2010 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah but it's not Movies inside

It’s MAGIC inside!

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Apr 5, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m exactly like that with music.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Apr 5, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think stats are great...

…but sometimes the people that are really into stats leave the impression, whether they mean to or not, that:

  • They’d rather be right about a player’s bad performance than wrong when he does well
  • They’re quick to jump on a guy’s negatives and slow to recognize his positives
  • They enjoy the number crunching more than the actual play
  • They think if it can’t be explained statistically, it can’t possibly happen
  • There’s no such thing as magic

“Magic” can be a number of thngs, from a team riding a wave of “Dustiny” to a starter struggling to hang on to his spot tossing a no hitter, to perhaps a pitching staff feeling more invested in the team results than ever now that they’re locked down and raising their level of play even more. You certainly want to put the best team you can on the field, but once the team takes the field, you need a certain amount of “magic” for thing to go your way.

I’ve made an effort to understand stats more and it’s definitely helped my understanding of the game, but I’m a fan first and I love watching me some baseball. While I don’t agree with every move management makes, I try to understand the possible motivation behind them and that makes me sometimes look like an apologist for Bochy Sabean. I also like rotting for a team I like and the 2010 Giants are hard to team to dislike. If the worst thing you can say about them is that their catcher is kind of sensitive or their closer is either cocky or crazy, that’s a pretty likable team.

I’m totally pumped for things to get rolling and REALLY interested to see how the season unfolds. This team should be more fun to watch than any recent team and could be really good if it plays to its potential.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I also like rotting for a team I like

And your chosen team is rotting for you.

Happy New Year everybody. May it be happy, healthy, and prosperous.

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Apr 5, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’d say you’re wrong on all counts regarding your bullet points. In fact, whether or not you mean to, they all sound like the standard SABER STAT NURD stereotypes. I don’t know how many times I’ve been told that I don’t like the Giants or something similar. I’m just a much of a fan as you are.

IF YOU CUT ME, DO I NOT BLEED?

But seriously, we’re all fans first — I just like to learn about things and the numbers-based stuff has made baseball 1000% more enjoyable. Mostly because it’s the quest for knowledge. And I’ve found that traditionalists aren’t interested in learning new things about baseball because they’ve already figured it (or believe they have) out.

Maybe that’s a stereotype, too.

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Apr 5, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I usually try to avoid POKEMONZ talk

But can you people start answering trade proposals?

The season’s starting and I’m still stuck with 4 middle infielders and no 1B.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Apr 5, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Did you send me the Zobrist trade? I need to think about that one. I’ve been away from my PC all weekend.

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Apr 5, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

the CPU was out of socket all weekend?

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Apr 5, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yup, but it’s OK, you can take your time. It’s just like my 5th trade proposal over the past 2 weeks.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Apr 5, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Read the begining of my post again

I never said stat people aren’t fans or said that they’re any less fans. I was very careful to say they sometimes give the impression that they do or think the things I bulleted.

The impression that someone gives can be very different than how someone actually thinks or feels.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sure, I get that they “give the impression” but it’s still a round-about criticism that I think is bunk.

I could say the same thing:

“People who don’t like stats and believe in team chemistry give me the impression that they are thoughtless drooling retards.”

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Apr 5, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

er, sometimes leave the impression! Ah-ha!

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Apr 5, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

As someone who straddles the cultural divide

I’m trying to explain how things are perceived

You should see me with my season-ticket buddies; they think I’m the biggest stat nerd of all time. These are guys who played high school and JC ball. When they were throwing out “Matt Cain needs to learn how to win” and I argued with them about W-L, they thought I was nuts.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

I also straddle the divide (and the ladies)

It’s funny, around here I feel like an old school guy because, like you, I’m not a huge stat guy, I tend to trust my eyes and gut a lot with players, and I still believe in antiquated notions like team chemistry. But I also grew up with ball players, one who pitched in the Rockies system, and to them I’m the biggest stat nerd. When I told them replacing Molina with Posey would help the offense, they could understand why I’d want to get rid of our best “run producer”.

Proud member of The Gentlemen of Leisure.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Apr 5, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m very mixed in my feelings for the 2010 Giants. There aren’t really any players I’m neutral on – there’s plenty to like as a fan, but plenty to dislike, too. Coincidentally, it falls along young/homegrown v old/overpaid lines. Guys I like: Timmy, Matt, Panda, Dirty, Fred, Nate, Bowker, Romo, Affeldt. I don’t particularly like Wilson the person but I like Wilson the pitcher. Guys I don’t like: Freddy, Aubrey, Bengie, Rowand, Zito, Edgar, Eugenio. Overall, as a team….I mean, I can focus on the guys I like (by never watching a game Zito starts for instance), but I wouldn’t call this the greatest team to root for or anything.

"Richmond, VA. For when West Virginia is too classy"

by Missing Barry on Apr 5, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Uribe must drive you nuts

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’d prefer if he didn’t, thanks.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Apr 5, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’d forgotten about his existance, apparently….

"Richmond, VA. For when West Virginia is too classy"

by Missing Barry on Apr 5, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

They enjoy the number crunching more than the actual play

I honestly think that this is a Michael Lewis trope that has really infected this stats/scouts conversation. I remember when I read that book I felt like that was, in fact, a real subtext of Moneyball: that Beane and his team essentially couldn’t stand the messiness of real world events and consequently tried to contain that choas in the abstract purities of mathematics. I remember in particular descriptions of the FO folks during games and how frequently Lewis described their aversion to watching the A’s games — Beane’s keeping track of scoring updates on his beeper while he worked out or just drove around; Depodesta and others following the games on a computer that just tracked O-Swing/Z-Swing data (and when Lewis asked them why they weren’t watching the game, or if they wanted to know what the result of the AB was, Depodesta’s response was something along the lines of “you can learn so much more about the games by not watching them”).

I don’t mean to say that I agree with this view. But I did think Lewis was quite consciously leading readers to that interpretation through his natural gift for storytelling (and not incidentally for crafting stories that push cultural buttons), rather than the “truth” of the matter whatever that may be. I should also say I was an English post-grad, so I’m inclined to over-read.

Anyway, I don’t see how anyone could read Bay City Ball and come to any rational belief that Xanthan isn’t pretty passionately devoted to this team.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Apr 5, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wasn't talking about xanthan or anyone in particular

The only problem I’ve ever had with xanthan is the stubborn refusal to accept Panda as a 3rd baseman.

I was talking about the impression statheads in general give to nonstatheads.

The whole “RBI” thing is a good example. When people argue “RBIs are a terrible way to measure a player”, I understand the point they’re making, but to someone unfamiliar with the nuances of the argument, it sounds silly when you just watched a guy drive in four runs to win an individual game.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

“OBP and SLG doesn’t win ballgames, HR and RBIs do”

Actual quote from a Phillies fan on another board.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Apr 5, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Only one home run. Interesting.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Apr 5, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think that’s supposed to be Human Resources

The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.

by thehavenot on Apr 5, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ve accepted that Panda is a better than I expected defender at third base. He’s still below average, though. Just not -10 runs like I was expecting.

I WAS WRONG

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Apr 5, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

BUT YOU WOULD HAVE RATHER BEEN RIGHT!

;-)

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’ve only ever been right about one thing in my life. And it was Juan Uribe.

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Apr 5, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

But this does illustrate something stats might not uncover

I was one of those that thought Panda would be ok at 3B. (One of the few things I’ve been right about.) My logic was that his skills as a catcher:

  • lateral quickness
  • sure glove, especially with balls at his feet
  • stong arm
  • quick release
    …would help him at 3B more than any other position and help him overcome the disadvantage his size provides. He’s also an extremely coordinated athlete. I think that’s more general baseball thinking than being able to find something on a stat sheet.

I don’t think he’s the greatest thing ever at 3B, but given how well he did making the adjustment, I think he might improve more.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

As I said then and still say now – his committment to conditioning will determine how good of a third baseman he will be, but he has the potential to be very good.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Apr 5, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, if he doesn’t take better care of himself, not only will he never be as a good as he can be, but he’s probably going to decline in a few years. And hurt himself. I get scared every time he dives for ball – I don’t know how long his body will be able to take it.

I also wish the Giants would work with him on his slides – they’re kind of wild, and he’s already hurt himself a few times because of them.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Apr 5, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

And any good statistician will understand the limits of his statistics and see where they fail to tell him information he needs to know, and direct his attention to getting the best non-statistics information to inform his decision on issues the stats can’t address. Basically, it’s all about the thought process – are you using the best information available to make decisions, and are you actively and objectively trying to figure out what information is the best information?

"Richmond, VA. For when West Virginia is too classy"

by Missing Barry on Apr 5, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I still think his range is pretty bad — how many times does he dive for balls that 90% of other 3B get to?

I think Johnny is right that it’s going to come down his conditioning. Which, IMO, was only so-so this offseason. Gaining a bunch of weight back when he went home was discouraging.

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Apr 5, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I think his range isn’t very good (although he has pretty good quickness), but I like what he does with the balls he gets to.

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

TWSS

I've got squirrels in my pants!

by otis29 on Apr 5, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thats no problem. He can just be a fat overweight umpire like the rest of the overbearing intrusive showboating bastards in the umpires union.

If that doesn’t scare him away from midnight trips to Dunkin Donuts, than nothing will.

/midseason form in anticipation of Bucknor, Country Joe West, Angel Hernandez and other useless turd burglars missing calls and antagonizing players and fans alike

by E Ticket on Apr 5, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

WATCH THE GAMES NURDS

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Apr 4, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought we weren't allowed to be optimistic

We don't have to improve our ability to get people on base to improve our offense. If we sign FAs with decent RBI totals they will bring those RBIs with them. Its science. Or magic. We aren't exactly sure. The IT department hasn't responded to our telegram. --Sabean's offseason master plan

by McCoven on Apr 4, 2010 8:53 AM PDT reply actions  

The subtiltes for teh grounds crew in that move still crack me up.
Though that last version TV as gotten a bit too concerned with oaffending certain family elements.

Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at - 25%

by daveinexile on Apr 6, 2010 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sinner
Yet it did not detract from how much I enjoyed getting sprayed on by Barry and the team

Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.

by marcello on Apr 4, 2010 9:18 AM PDT reply actions  

Damnit. I was going to make this joke.

Anyway, nice post jct! I’m in.

Belted!

by AndYourBirdCanSing on Apr 4, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

This post almost brought me to tears.

by kdl on Apr 4, 2010 9:51 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm also giving this "looking on the bright side" a try.

I will attempt to ignore the negatives in plain sight. The one really big problem I see – Sabean and Bochy are also really good at ignoring not just the negatives, but the positives as well. When I see all the positives they choose to ignore because of lack of “veteranness”, it makes it so much harder for me to just focus on the team.

But, here’s to giving it the old gamers try…

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Apr 4, 2010 11:55 AM PDT reply actions  

Wow…great video. Ruined by that last comment.

I was really enjoying it, too. But c’mon, bad joke, bad sentiment. Being a Giant fan does not mean rooting against the Dodgers. Any chance you could do an edit, drop that last comment and put something positive to close? Perhaps the picture of Timy and Panda pointing at each other?

Ugh. Great effort. Ruined by a bad joke.

by positiveuphemism on Apr 4, 2010 3:58 PM PDT reply actions  

My spider sense is tingling… I detect a Dodger mole in our midst!

"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.

-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler

by Alex_Lewis on Apr 4, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seriously?

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Apr 4, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah. It’s a great vid up till that last moment where it goes for a cheap joke and completely deflates all the positivity that had been built. Unless the whole point of the video was just to make that joke, but based on the OP and the content of the vid, this doesn’t seem to be the case. I suppose it could be an elaborate troll…

I suppose if it were titled, “It’s time to be a hater again,” the last comment would work. As such, it is a bad ending to a great work of art.

by positiveuphemism on Apr 4, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

But I do hate the Dodgers.

"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.

-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler

by Alex_Lewis on Apr 4, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

If I recall correctly, it ends with a “Suck it, Russell Martin”, right?

I don’t know, if you have a problem with Dodger/Russell Martin jokes, that’s fine, but if I were you, I don’t think I would expect others to cater to your opinions on it.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Apr 4, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is nothing new — positiveuphemism came out against focusing negative energy on the Dodgers a long time ago (see 1st comment).

Proud member of The Gentlemen of Leisure.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Apr 4, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

We, as a fan base, are extremely negative. We have also never seen a championship. It is pretty commonly believed that focusing positive energy breeds good results while focusing negative energy does the opposite.

Also, the whole point of the OP was to be positive about the team. To end such a positive video with the negativity was jarring and kind of invalidates the whole OP in the first place.

by positiveuphemism on Apr 4, 2010 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Focusing on that which cannot be measured breeds confirmation bias.

Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)

by antinous on Apr 4, 2010 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

"We" as a fan base?

The OP would have you know that it’s us.

"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry

by victor frankenstein on Apr 4, 2010 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

It is pretty commonly believed that focusing positive energy breeds good results while focusing negative energy does the opposite.

From the perspective of being a fan, I’m going to go ahead and guess you’ve never lived on the East Coast, specifically in Philly, NY or Boston? Somehow the negative energy hasn’t stopped them from winning championships, in fact, I would argue it’s helped by demanding management put out a quality product or they get canned, while we have a mediocre GM who’s now the longest tenured GM in baseball…

"Richmond, VA. For when West Virginia is too classy"

by Missing Barry on Apr 5, 2010 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

It is pretty commonly believed that focusing positive energy breeds good results while focusing negative energy does the opposite.

You’re not serious, are you? If you’re talking about the players themselves, that’s one thing, but are you honestly claiming that by “focusing positive energy”, you can affect the way the team performs?

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Apr 5, 2010 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I do believe that, yes. That Rally Monkey sure seemed to make a difference. Is it provable? Probably not. But from my experience, belief seems to work better than believing someone else is worse. Other people believing in you works better than those same people believing someone else is worse.

by positiveuphemism on Apr 5, 2010 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Rally Monkey was on the scoreboard. The players from both teams saw it, and it’s possible that it had some emotional effect on them. That’s not the same as someone watching the game at home and sending positive vibes.

Same with believing in someone. If I know people believe in me, it gives me confidence, which might help me become more decisive. And that might help me do whatever it is I’m trying to do. There’s a clear and logical way in which it could, at least theoretically, help; but it’s not at all the same someone far away focusing positive energy.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Apr 5, 2010 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I stand by negative fans elsewhere who demand a quality product from the franchise they root for as being more helpful than the docile SF crowd that’s content with Sabean’s mediocrity.

"Richmond, VA. For when West Virginia is too classy"

by Missing Barry on Apr 5, 2010 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Things are pretty okay!

Anyone up for Scrabble later?

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Apr 5, 2010 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m down for more scrabble iphone opponents. I’m not very good, but it’s nice to see that “1” over the icon.

by positiveuphemism on Apr 5, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Play me on Words with Friends!

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Apr 5, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

TWSS

Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: Better than any SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010

by Gobroks on Apr 5, 2010 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I believe that if we all concentrate hard enough

We can lift the Pentagon!

WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience

by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 5, 2010 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

To Teh Area 53z!!

by E Ticket on Apr 5, 2010 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

May the Schwartz be with you

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond.
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Apr 5, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

No.

Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller

by Johnny Disaster on Apr 4, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Being a Giant fan does not mean rooting against the Dodgers.

Yes. Yes, it does.

"Richmond, VA. For when West Virginia is too classy"

by Missing Barry on Apr 5, 2010 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

my 2 favorite teams: The Giants and whoever is playing the Dodgers (so today, the Pirates)

Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: Better than any SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010

by Gobroks on Apr 5, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I once wore a Yankee Jersey when the Dodgers played New York.

In my defense though it was a Chien Ming Wang Jersey!

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Apr 5, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I have a Phil Hughes jersey

and if the Dodgers play the Yankee$ I will probably break that out

Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: Better than any SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010

by Gobroks on Apr 5, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

The whole “positivity über alles” schtick makes me want to kick a puppy.

by Evan on Apr 5, 2010 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Paint the puppy blue first – you’ll enjoy kicking it more.

Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in Boston.

by EliminateMe on Apr 5, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

K POP

I can’t escape it. Even here it comes to find me.

by Ltisme on Apr 4, 2010 5:21 PM PDT reply actions  

LIFE COULDN'T GET BETTER!

yeah!

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Apr 4, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, Oh Oh Oh

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Apr 4, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Awesome video, jct.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Apr 4, 2010 5:53 PM PDT reply actions  

I can’t really stand the music, but I hear it every day while working out. I’ve tried to familiarize myself with it to get my students interested. Those songs are way too catchy though. I find myself singing or humming them all the time.

by Ltisme on Apr 4, 2010 6:48 PM PDT reply actions  

Damn Koreans and their excessively large teen pop groups

/half joking

I like the vid jct.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Apr 4, 2010 7:22 PM PDT reply actions  

LETS GOOOOOOOO

YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL

by heimy25 on Apr 4, 2010 8:47 PM PDT reply actions  

So much this. Baseball is my life in many ways, and while it’s my career, it’s still my true love and my salvation. I’ll always be a fan, until the day I die.

Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 4, 2010 9:30 PM PDT reply actions  

This was fucking epic.

01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey

by sanfrankid on Apr 5, 2010 1:39 AM PDT reply actions  

Ok, so I’ll be a fan and be happy and root for the Giants, but can I still be negative 40% of the time? After all, Timmy, Matt and Dirty only start 3 out of every 5 games….

Also, I reserve the right to boo and/or root against Sanchez (Freddy), Huff, Molina, Rowand and Renteria when I feel it’s appropriate. DeRosa to a smaller degree, mostly because he represents Fred Lewis sitting on the bench.

"Richmond, VA. For when West Virginia is too classy"

by Missing Barry on Apr 5, 2010 7:13 AM PDT reply actions  

Stats and the Giants
There is a genuine belief amongst Giants fans that the front office and its existing personnel (Bochy, Sabean) is incapable of apply modern statistical analysis to baseball, that RBI carries more weight than wOBA, and that 40 at bats is enough to judge a hitter by.

In yesterday’s print-only feature on the Giants, there’s some direct quotes from Sabean about their statistics department and how he regularly uses their input. Hard to actually believe, but it’s the first time I read that.

"The questions are so stupid. I don't believe in rivalries. I don't believe in curses. Wake up the damn Bambino, maybe I'll drill him in the ass."
- Pedro Martinez, asked about the Curse of the Bambino

by achiappanza on Apr 5, 2010 7:16 AM PDT reply actions  

Oops

I meant to say “print-only feature in the SF Chronicle.”

"The questions are so stupid. I don't believe in rivalries. I don't believe in curses. Wake up the damn Bambino, maybe I'll drill him in the ass."
- Pedro Martinez, asked about the Curse of the Bambino

by achiappanza on Apr 5, 2010 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

They still have print-only features?

by Evan on Apr 5, 2010 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Chron

They re-started doing them recently, and labeled as such, presumably in an attempt to attract paying subscribers.

"The questions are so stupid. I don't believe in rivalries. I don't believe in curses. Wake up the damn Bambino, maybe I'll drill him in the ass."
- Pedro Martinez, asked about the Curse of the Bambino

by achiappanza on Apr 5, 2010 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

To attract whatting whatters?

Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in Boston.

by EliminateMe on Apr 5, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

That he takes some time out of his day to get a couple of opinions from stat guys doesn’t surprise me too much. The question is whether he actually understands how to properly use that information, and what would be surprising to me is to find out he does. From all his talk with the media, he really makes it sound like the real problem is his entire thought process – it’s not objective, it’s not analytical, it’s not always looking to improve the process and figure out the best ways to use information….it’s stuck in the past and he’s quite content to do things that way because it’s how he was raised, and he has absolutely no understanding of how to apply a quality thought process. Of course, neither does the media, so we don’t get very good questions to find out what he really knows.

Basically, instead of painting some “old school vs traditional” battle, the questions should be: “What do these stats tell us?” “What don’t they tell us?” “How do they improve on what we already know?” “Old school stats”, to be frank, are simply inferior pieces of knowledge to what’s publicly available now. They simply are not as useful or informative. For instance, take this article by Schulman. Simply put, the entire article is based on a poor thought process.

This is going to be an anti-Sabermetrics screed, specifically the notion that Lewis needs to be the Giants’ everyday left fielder because his .348 on-base percentage last year was 90 points higher than his .258 batting average. In other words, Lewis can take a walk.

I get e-mails like this all the time. I see this sort of comment on Internet boards. I’ve ignored them, hoping they will go away.

They don’t go away, Henry, because simply put….they are more correct than you. They are using much better thought out statistics that better represent baseball reality – it’s not some ideological battle here, it’s people like you (Henry), people like Brian Sabean, fighting back against superior fact based information by clinging to worse information, and somehow thinking your side has some amount of justification. It does not. It is wrong.

So anyways, that’s my stance – I have no doubt Sabean uses statistics, and asks his statistical department for a list of ~.300 BA middle infielders so he can upgrade his offense. That doesn’t make it right. All the evidence we have is the thought process is simply wrong with Sabean – he’s not asking how to better understand and value baseball and baseball players, using the best information out there – he stills uses inferior statistical information because he doesn’t have the slightest understanding of statistical concepts, or the thought process/desire to change that.

"Richmond, VA. For when West Virginia is too classy"

by Missing Barry on Apr 5, 2010 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Nice post in that it addresses the fundamental problem of the Giants way of evaluating performance as well as talent. It is actually the fundamental difference the hapless Bondsless Giants and the perennial post-season contenders.

It is the primary flaw in the free agency acquisitions of toads like Molina, Renteria, Sanchez, and the Giants as a whole, and it has nothing to do with metrics. It has to do with the value of not making outs. Not making outs is what defeats the team on defense. And even when you make an out, its about making the other team pay dearly for getting you out. To punish them and get to their second tier level of pitching as soon as possilbe. And the Giants teams under Sabean do not do that.

There were two main proponents of that long before Billy Beane came along.
The first was Branch Rickey in the 1940s when he utilized a minor league system in St. Louis as a way to compete with the big city East Coast teams. The ability to avoid making outs and making pitchers work was one of Rickey’s primary evaluation tools.

Earl Weaver during his 20 year run in Baltimore who had once upon a time been the hapless and feckless St. Louis Browns. We’re all familiar with his mantra of two-walks followed by a three run homer complemented by shut down pitching from the likes of McNally, Dobson, Palmer, and Cuellar. But he would carry on relentlessly about how valuable outs were.

In the early 80s when the Haas’ bought the A’s Sandy Alderson, old Walter’s son-in-law, was appointed GM. He was a huge proponent of using OBP (which has since evolved to wOBA) to evaluate hitters. So it could be said that Billy Beane is reallly just carrying on where Alderson left off.

Obviously there are more sophisticated criteria and observational judgements that are imputed into the talent and performance equations, but one thing is abundantly clear; especially in the post-Bonds era:

Brian Sabean and the Giants as a whole put little, if any value on not making outs. And that is the single biggest flaw.

It boggles my mind that even after all these years, how many unsuccessful college coaches and high school coaches do not understand this concept. Every year they go into the season with the recruits they think they need to compete for post-regular season play, and every year they come up short and blame it on injuries, bad luck, bad umpiring, the baseball gods, or bad player chemistry. And every year the good programs, even those with little money, have success with recruits and players that get overlooked or are minimized by their competitors, and their success is simply evaluated as “good coaching” and “overachievers”.

Sabean and Wade, and a few others, are not old school. Rickey, Weaver, and Alderson are old school. Sabean and Wade are just old tools stuck in their stubborn ways.

by E Ticket on Apr 5, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

E TICKET U R LOSING ME

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Apr 5, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hope and optimism is good. But if one is to avoid the soul-crushing emotional baggage of unrewarded child-like expectation with no reasonable empirical data to support that, than that person is destined to be continuously unfulfilled. Thats why growing up is difficult.

There is no Santa Claus. Don’t blame me. There are many levels and many ways to enjoy baseball. Simply because I and many others do not subscribe to the happy-happy-joy-joy way, does not entitle you to cast aspersions and castigate those of us who happen to view things other than through rose-tinted glasses.

I just happened to grow up a long time ago. Wishing for something doesn’t make it happen. The real world is full of conflict, imperfection and blood-thirsty opponents. To compete with them you must make the most of the resources at your disposal. My point and that of many others is that the Giants front office has relentlessly squandered resources and made counter-productive move after counter productive transaction for years and as a result, the only way they are ever going to be successful (in a championship way) is for everybody around them to collapse and that just isn’t going to happen.

There is a reason for 55 years of not winning a championship. Wishing failure away is not going to make it disappear.

by E Ticket on Apr 5, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh I recognize the failures. Believe me, I’ve been pretty active the last year with my hate. What I intend on doing today is to put down the pitchfork and watch baseball. It is opening day. The improbable could happen. The Giants could get lucky. Real Lucky. 4 players could hit .350 BABIP for the season. Is it likely? No, but it could happen.

Now when it doesn’t happen by June and we are 10 games out, I’ll resume the ransacking of the front office. For now, I’m going to enjoy baseball and hope for the best.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Apr 5, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

On an unrelated note, if Butler wins the NCAA tonight I win my NCAA pool (even though my championship game prediction is Kentucky over Kansas). Go Butler!

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Apr 5, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I already lost my bracket. Damn you, Kansas!

Also, the WVU game made me :-(

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Apr 5, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Go Butler!

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Apr 5, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sabean and Wade are just old tools stuck in their stubborn ways.

Yep, they’re the types that refuse to ask “can we do what we’re already doing better?” “If we could start from scratch right now, would we be doing things the way we currently are?” I don’t particuarly care wether they use the same criteria as me to evaluate players – I’m no expert or professional at it, I just care as to whether they have an open mind and an understanding of statistical concepts and can ask the right questions and develop a process that makes sense. A process that actually makes an attempt to correctly utilize data and facts and whatever else to inform their decisions. Brian’s doesn’t do this, because he doesn’t have the right mindset.

"Richmond, VA. For when West Virginia is too classy"

by Missing Barry on Apr 5, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I used “simply” way too much in this post. Oh well.

"Richmond, VA. For when West Virginia is too classy"

by Missing Barry on Apr 5, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Appropriate lyric snippet to start the season

So for once in my life
Let me get what I want
Lord knows it would be the first time

WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience

by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 5, 2010 9:36 AM PDT reply actions  

MLOLRRISSEY

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Apr 5, 2010 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

In the spirit of the title of the thread...

FAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAP

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Apr 5, 2010 10:00 AM PDT reply actions  

I like an video that I'm in

Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!

by Goofus on Apr 5, 2010 10:07 AM PDT reply actions  

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Apr 5, 2010 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

So Xanthan is a computer and chilibean is a fan.

The Giants offseason moves - "meh"
Proud father of 2-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum, who could do whatever he wants to do.

by SFGuy on Apr 5, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

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