Outside Of The Box Thinking - Why Not Posey In The OF?
Clearly Buster is more then good enough of an athlete to handle LF. If he can play SS in college he can play LF in MLB. I know many of you think Schierholtz and especially Bowker have not been given resonable chances to prove they belong as everyday members of the strarting lineup. But I also know that most of you realize that neither of these are as likely to suceed with the bat as Buster Posey is. My view is that the very best lineup (overall combining offensive and defensive) the Giants could put on the field every day includes Buster Posey, Bengie Molina, and Aubrey Huff and does not include John Bowker or Nate Schierholtz when Aaron Rowand returns from the DL. I think the Giants should go with the following everyday lineup against both lefties and righties now and replace Schierholz with Rowand when Aaron returns.
Buster Posey LF
Mark DeRosa RF
Juan Uribe 2B
Aubrey Huff 1B
Bengie Molina C
Nate Schierholtz CF
If the Giants decide to do this they will either option Eli Whiteside (my preference) or John Bowker to Fresno if they really think they can't get by without a dedicated backup catcher. My view is that having two backup catchers starting at other positions (Posey in LF and Sandoval at 3B) makes having a third backup catcher that is exclusively a backup catcher completely unnecessary but somehow I think Bruce Bochy will not agree.
Sooner or later this is what I think the Giants are going to do. They may decide to move Huff to LF and play Posey at 1B but the net result will be the same.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
122 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
LOL
Huff in LF….yeaaaaah
01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey
Wave them home Tim Flannery, wave them home.
as horrendous an idea as moving Posey to the OF is, moving Huff to LF is actually a worse idea
by FluLikeSymptoms on Apr 23, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions
This isn't out of the box thinking
It’s been suggested many times. It’s just another box, mostly filled with dumb people.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
by marcello on Apr 23, 2010 5:51 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
That's okay
We didn’t want you in our box anyway.
Your San Francisco Giants: exemplifying buzzard's luck since 2006.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
No. He doesn’t need to be jerked around anymore. Keep him at C and if we must First, but that’s it. Plus, Posey’s bat doesn’t play well as a corner OF, it’s valuable as a catcher.
01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey
Wave them home Tim Flannery, wave them home.
This
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 25, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess the question is, does that matter? His bat will likely play better than any non-Panda on the roster, and it’s not like playing Posey anywhere will prohibit us from acquiring a better player at that position. It would just mean Posey gets moved elsewhere when that happens.
I surprisingly don’t hate this idea of GRM’s. I don’t think it needs to be implemented today, but it’s not unreasonable either.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
Will it? I think you guys are a bit optimistic on what he can provide right now. Poseys offense + defense in RF is unlikely to be better than our other options.
by Missing Barry on Apr 28, 2010 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions
New Starting RF
My preference would be to move Geraldo Posey to RF permanently. RF at Mays Field requires skill. The organization is light on talented RF and Posey has the skills to master the position.
Posey could play 160 games a season without wilting in the summer.
I was going to say inb4wilriv
But you beat me
in after wilriv
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I think that would be an excellent idea. If a better RF comes along in a few years (RaRod?) then he can move elsewhere. In the meantime, we get his bat in the lineup. I like Nate Schierholtz, but Gerald is clearly the better hitter.
Your San Francisco Giants: exemplifying buzzard's luck since 2006.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
But he doesn’t project to be an a good hitter as an OF. He projects to be a GREAT hitter behind the plate.
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
This again – Posey should not be moved to the outfield anywhere. Catcher, first base maybe if this organization really thinks his legs will fall off.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 25, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, because why would we want to fill the toughest position on the diamond with a good athlete that can do it all defensively and offensively, when we could move that player to one of the easiest positions to fill instead and get way less value from them? I can’t see why we would ever want either one of our two most talented young players to play a premium position when we could fill non-premium positions with them (Pablo + Buster).
[Note: heavy sarcasm]
by Missing Barry on Apr 26, 2010 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Because The Goal Is To Get The Team Better
This is not about maximizing an individual player’s value it is about maximizing the team’s value within the context of the players that are available to us now..
by giantsrainman on Apr 26, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Maximizing the individual and the teams value go hand in hand, especially in the long run.
by Missing Barry on Apr 28, 2010 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions
It's been said before-I'll say it now
Poseys bat= great at C, good, not great, in LF.
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: Better than any SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
by Gobroks on Apr 23, 2010 6:29 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
So What!
What does that have to do with putting the best team on the field now? I am not talking about using Posey in the OF beyond this year. In my view Buster is close (if not already there) to the stage in his development as a catcher when the only remaining step is experience at the MLB level. To get Posey that experience this year by backing up Bengie and still to get the PAs of a fulltime player this is really the only option. You can dream (foolishly in my judgment) all you want that the Giants will trade Molina to open up catcher full time for Posey but that is only happening if the Giants completely fall out of contention and I just don’t see that happening.
by giantsrainman on Apr 23, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions
You want to put the best team you can on the field now? Put Posey behind the plate and Bowker in right. Molina is obviously not a .400 hitter, and once he stops taking pitches (which he most definitely will) we’re going to have a .300 OBP at best in our 6th spot in the order. Make Bengie Posey’s backup; that makes more sense than keeping him in the lineup every day. Bowker is a better hitter than Molina (better average, better speed, better on-base skills, comparable power), and it makes a ton more sense to put him in the lineup every day instead of Bengie.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
Right Now Molina's Bat Way more Valuable Then Bowkers.
by giantsrainman on Apr 23, 2010 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions
So far this season that is true but also SSS
Bowker has good upside and Molina seems to be on the downside of his career. I think Bowker should be playing everyday (Vs RHP & LHP) and by June/July the FO can determine whether we need an improvement in RF. I also think that once Posey avoids super 2 status he should be the everyday catcher and Molina should be the back up who teaches Posey the preferences of the pitchers, with Whiteside being DFA’d.
Sadly, I know this is all a pipedream because Bochy thinks that Bowker can’t hit lefties and sees Molina as a good hitter.
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: Better than any SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Your idea implies that Posey is a better hitter when he’s playing catcher. That’s crazy talk. He is the hitter he is. We have no RF who hits better than Posey, and no catcher who hits better than Posey. His defensive position influences the team’s hitting only when he sends a hitter to the bench by taking that hitter’s position. Would he be an excellent hitter for a catcher? Sure. Would he be an outstanding hitter for a RF? No. But we don’t have any of those kinds of RF’s available, so he wouldn’t be preventing a better hitter from taking that spot.
So yes, on a stacked all-star-type team, Posey should definitely play catcher. In our sad real-Giants-world, it doesn’t matter where he plays – with the exception that he not take Sandoval’s place. Or maybe Uribe’s.
Your San Francisco Giants: exemplifying buzzard's luck since 2006.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
No the stats that Posey will put up
would be more valuable at catcher than at a corner position.
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: Better than any SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Not Relevent
To this year what matters is do will Bowker/Sheirholtz outhit Molina and I have no confidence that they will. My money would be on Big Money.
by giantsrainman on Apr 24, 2010 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Bowker would outhit Molina this year if he was given consistent PT
I also could see a slippery slope where the FO continually says “OK, next year Posey is definitely going to be our catcher”…and every year they sign guys like Molina.
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: Better than any SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
You’re correct to point out that it’s not relevant to this season. However, it is relevant – very relevant – going forward. Posey’s bat should be a huge upgrade over what we would otherwise have at catcher (Molina or whomever). It also enables us to get a big upgrade at one of the corner OF spots. It’s much easier to upgrade the OF than catcher. Basically, the math is this:
A) Posey at C + new OF = big upgrades at 2 positions
B) replacement C + Posey in OF = position-average hitters at 2 positions
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I don't see how Posey catching 1-2 games a week
and playing OF the rest of the time ruins his prospects as a long-term catcher.
We’ve got the best Giants’ pitching staff ever at the moment and should not be doing anything that doesn’t take full advantage of that.
I contend that being on the big team around the big league staff will help him work with these guys now and next year, whether it’s catching them in games or catching bullpen sessions.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
What I said above
I also could see a slippery slope where the FO continually says "OK, next year Posey is definitely going to be our catcher"…and every year they sign guys like Molina.
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: Better than any SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
I contend that being on the big team around the big league staff will help him work with these guys now and next year, whether it’s catching them in games or catching bullpen sessions.
I contend that actually playing catcher will help his catching skills a lot more than watching Bengie play it from RF/1B.
by Missing Barry on Apr 26, 2010 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions
That may be true, but there’s still pre-game and scouting the hitters you’re facing. I do believe catchers work a lot with pitchers before the game begins to go over a game plan for the day. The one thing Molina brings in particular is a lot of familiarity with ML hitters, which probably isn’t something Posey has. It might not be quantifiable statistically, but I’ve got to think there’s a chance that being in the majors and having the opportunity to work – or at least listen in on conversations – with Molina would give him an advantage when he’s calling games.
Bear in mind, I don’t know this all for a fact, I’m just speculating that it would be valuable.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
To this year what matters is do will Bowker/Sheirholtz outhit Molina
Correct, though a couple notes – we should expect Buster to hit a little worse if he plays C than RF (C is hard), so if whoever plays RF for us equals Bengie, Bengie + Buster will outproduce Buster + RF. Another factor to take into account here – defense. Will we lose anything behind the plate? I do not know. I do not believe Bengie is a good defensive C (I’m excluding “game calling” skills) – he’s below average at holding runners/throwing them out, and below average at preventing past balls/wild pitches. Is Posey good enough to be average right now? No idea. Will Posey play RF D as well as Schierholtz/Bowker? I don’t see that as likely at all.
by Missing Barry on Apr 26, 2010 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions
But you also have to develop a player who will be useful on future teams where the positional scarcity issue will be much more relevant, and the consensus is that Posey could use all the time behind the plate he gets to improve as a defender.
Rooting for Jose Casilla to take his K- and GB-inducing skills to the majors and join his brother.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga... CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz... CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
No.
Rooting for Jose Casilla to take his K- and GB-inducing skills to the majors and join his brother.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga... CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz... CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Even Velez was a better hitter than Molina last season.
by Missing Barry on Apr 26, 2010 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Man, that’s some sad numbers right there. And yeah, Velez was a better hitter than Molina.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 26, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
the only remaining step is experience at the MLB level
Why is that the only remaining step? If he’s not ready from a defensive standpoint to start in MLB right now, shouldn’t reps in AAA help prepare him to be ready? Reps = good. Sitting on the bench/playing 1B/RF = bad. Those don’t help him learn to play C. Why screw up our long term future like that? When you keep making short sighted moves with no long term plan…..well, you get the kind of crap Sabean continually gives us. Long term planning to maximize your assets makes your team better on a yearly basis.
by Missing Barry on Apr 26, 2010 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Are You Serious?
Buster can only learn to handle this Giants MLB pitching staff by being here seeing it being done and doing it himself. If this missing step in his development process as a defensive catcher (as I believe it is) it ain’t going to happen in AAA.
by giantsrainman on Apr 26, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
IAWTC
I also think he should spend a few years in the minors learning to pitch. Since Bumgarner apparently sold his fastball velocity to buy his ranch and get married, he should be traded asap. Then, say in 2013, we can bring Posey up as the 5th starter, and days when he’s not pitching he can play SS or CF or whatever the team needs that game.
by fantastical on Apr 23, 2010 6:40 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
/sigh
pass.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.
#2 in Fanshots
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
OUTSIDE OF INTELLIGENCE THINKING!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 23, 2010 7:10 PM PDT reply actions
2 questions
1. Is he likely to outhit DeRosa for the rest of the season?
2. Is he likely to outhit Bowker for the rest of the season?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Yes to 1, Maybe to 2
But then I believe in Bowker. And I like DeRosa a lot, but Posey should be a better hitter than Mark.
Your San Francisco Giants: exemplifying buzzard's luck since 2006.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
On DeRosa Ultimately You Are Right But Not Likely to Be So In 2010.
by giantsrainman on Apr 24, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know what to believe!!
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Yes to 2 because Bowker is being FLew'd into terrible sporadic PAs
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.
#2 in Fanshots
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Molina has a career batting line of .276/.308/.418.
Schierholtz has a career batting line of .286/.322/.418. He’s almost a decade younger, a far better baserunner, and undoubtedly a much better outfielder than Posey would be at this point (and probably ever).
Next idea.
by Evan on Apr 25, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
/thread
Proud member of The Gentlemen of Leisure.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Apr 25, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
This Is Not Outside The Box Thinking, It Is Slightly Modified Groupthink
I would prefer the following lineup:
1) Bengie Molina SS
Played shortstop in college, can do so again. Hitting leadoff would give “Bag Money” chances for clutch RBIs following sacrifice bunts from the pitcher.
2) Buster Posey 1B
He does not have the experience to call games, but he has experience as a first baseman at AAA – nearly Major League level. This is the best fit.
3) Pablo Sandoval 2B
Having mastered third base, second should be a breeze.
4) Aubrey Huff 3B
Has played this position before, bat is more valuable at 3B than 1B.
5) Nate Schierholtz C
Randy Winn roomed with Steve Nash in college, and Schierholtz is as good as Randy Winn in RF, so he is clearly enough of an athlete to make this adjustment.
6) Mark DeRosa CF
Having played all the other positions, surely DeRosa can play center field well enough to make Willie Mays blush.
7) Eli Whiteside RF
He hits grand slams and his impressive game calling abilities should translate well to the vast expanses of AT&T Park right field – since he is good at thinking of what pitch should be thrown, he can be a master of positioning and react before the ball is thrown.
8) Edgar Renteria LF
He has never played LF before, but his hot start was surely for real. You have to get him into the lineup somehow.
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
by Outside The Box Thinking on Apr 23, 2010 9:58 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Line up fun
1B-Bowker
2B-Velez
SS-Molina
3B-Nate
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: Better than any SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
This Is Not Outside The Box Thinking…
Then who the hell ARE you???
by KrazyKrabMeat on Apr 23, 2010 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Pedro Feliz
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: Better than any SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Out of the box and in to the toilet.
Triples Alley: Analysis of the San Francisco Giants, Baseball, and Sabermetrics.
I’mma cut a hole in you.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Apr 24, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Step One...
Your San Francisco Giants: exemplifying buzzard's luck since 2006.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
I Hate You So Much
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
by Outside The Box Thinking on Apr 24, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I am a really big fan of the box.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 24, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
The Swim Back In It.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 24, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Besides, don't get fresh with me, Hooters
lol
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 24, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Fresh Hooters?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
The ugly fact is...
had Posey and OF potential, the Giants would have stuck him in LF instead of signing DeRosa.
The money lies in the RBIs
-- Jeff Kent
I disagree entirely
Derosa’s signing had nothing to do with Posey.
I think the team signed Molina thinking that Posey wasn’t ready, or at least not confident that he was ready. If they’d had the hindsight of Posey’s ST, they might have done things differently. Perhaps spending money on Penny instead of Molina.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Rainman
I’m on record as being on board with this idea, strictly as a temporary solution to get whatever we can out of the offense now with Posey going to full-time catching next season (or if Molina is traded).
You touched on a point that can’t be overstated: Currently the team starts Whiteside approximately every 5th game. This team can’t afford that.
Question: Do you propose calling up Posey now or after June 1 to protect his arb clock?
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
I Would Like To Wait Until July 1st To Avoid Super 2 But I Just Don't Think We Can If We Want To Stay In It This Year
All waiting until June buys the Giants is avoiding free agency after 2015 it does not avoid Super 2 after 2012.
by giantsrainman on Apr 25, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions
We May Not Have The Pitching We Have Now In 2016.
We have the best pitching in baseball now and we don’t know what we will have then. We need to win now.
by giantsrainman on Apr 26, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
In that case, the Giants should deal Molina and insert Posey as the starting catcher. The team is immediately better plus maybe some value from the trade. Other than that, I think Posey should stay in AAA.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 26, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
This Completely Ignores The Value Of Managing A Pitching Staff
And it also ignores the fact that Bengie’s bat is more valuable to a playoff chase then any of the bats of our four AAAA outfielders are (Schierholtz, Bowker, Valez, and Torres).
by giantsrainman on Apr 26, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t buy into the managing a pitching staff theory. Schierholtz, Velez and Torres all put up OBP’s higher than Molina last year. So I’m not sure you’re correct that Molina’s bat is more valuable. Dingers are nice, but not making outs is also nice.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 26, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
What is the value of managing a pitching staff? I’m not saying it has no value, but it sounds to me like you’re getting into voodoo territory here if you don’t both have evidence it exists and can show it provides a meaningful amount of value….
by Missing Barry on Apr 28, 2010 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I can't take it anymore
This schizophrenic situation- the best of pitching, the worst of hitting- is really worse than just having a team that straight sucks. If we were the Orioles we could bring up Posey and let him learn, no biggie.
But here are tough choices to be made if we want to do our rotation justice, folks. We need to do whatever it takes to get them to the playoffs. The posted proposal isn’t perfect by any stretch. But I haven’t heard any better ideas, just a few wisecracks suggesting that the current situation is somewhere in the realm of acceptable. It’s not. It will drive me to a point where I could kill someone and then plead insanity as a Giants’ fan. A jury of my peers would surely commiserate. How many times can a man watch the starting pitcher go 8 shutout innings and lose in a no-decision?
I know many folks here have a huge hard-on for Buster at C and only at C. I’d rather have a run in the playoffs this year. Not next year. Not 2012. Too much can happen between now and then. So putting aside the mistakes of the past, what do we do with what we’ve got? I say bring up Posey for his bat June 2 and play him wherever, worry about his catching later. Desperate times call for desperate measures. WIN NOW.
Choppin' broccoli
Neal is Real
How is that for a suggestion?
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
nice. not thrilling, but nice.
Choppin' broccoli
by SimpleJaquez on Apr 25, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
NO
Just no. This is dumb.
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Ah yes the "projections" argument
First, Posey should get stronger and thus should hit for more power later. Second (and this is the better argument) he “projects” to a better hitter than any of the three starting outfielders and the starting 1B. He also projects to a better hitter than the starting catcher. But Bochy is going to keep Molina as the starter. Why? Look at the era and look at what the pitchers (esp Lincecum) say about him. You can discount that at Timmy just sticking up for his catcher. But he didn’t need to say anything. Thus I assume he means it. And it I’m Bochy I’m not going to screw with Timmy’s head.
So the issue is – do you want Posey in the lineup NOW – or do you want to wait until 2011. He still can catch a couple days a week (or at least once a week). He won’t lose his catching skills. Then we get his bat. And the “projections” will go out the door. We will see what we have at the plate.
Bowker is done. Might as well trade him. He may flourish elsewhere, but not here. I don’t blame Bowker, I blame Bochy. But that is besides the point. The guy is lost and he is gonna continue to be lost as long as he can’t go 0-4 without having to sit the next day. Schierholtz may be in the same boat. But he seems to handle it a tad better. Bochy ruins young players.
Huff? Unsure. But he sure seems to hit a lot of ground balls for a power guy. He has that “proven track record” so unlike the young guys, he’ll get his chance to fail again and again and again and again. Hopefully he will start swinging the bat at some point.
I still say Posey plays twice a week behind the plate a few games a week at first and hey if he’s a decent left fielder, a game or two a week there.
Now – the real question is – will moving him around defensively hurt his offensive production. Catching everyday certainly will. But the projectionists don’t seem bothered by that.
I think you gave up on Bowker rather quickly. At the worst, he has an option left, so he can play consistently in Fresno, and we’ll see if his year from last year was for real. It’s not the solution I want, but I’m not giving up on him yet.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 25, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
This frustrates me a bit
Bowker is done. Might as well trade him. He may flourish elsewhere, but not here. I don’t blame Bowker, I blame Bochy. But that is besides the point. The guy is lost and he is gonna continue to be lost as long as he can’t go 0-4 without having to sit the next day.
The solution is not to ship him to another team and let him flourish there. The solution needs to be our front office needs to change it’s shitty model of thinking and let players that have actually shown RECENT past success have an uninterrupted season long chance to prove themselves.
It’s unbelievably frustrating to think that Nate and Bowker are still season long unknowns.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, who has been resurrected and has returned to..(reads)...Fresno? And is also an outfielder now.
#2 in Fanshots
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Horseshit.
In the real world judgments have to be made must faster then the limits of statistical analysis allow for. Once simply can’t afford to wait until the validity of a decision is proven statistically. This is where scouting comes in. Teams need to watch the actual games and see how a player reacts. If a hitter doesn’t adjust when pitchers find a hole in his swing the team needs to move on to another option.
by giantsrainman on Apr 26, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Even if I accept your position, the team needs to understand that a player has hit some hard balls that got caught (hence a .222 BABIP) and that that luck will improve. And, when the other option is apparently Velez, why not play Bowker?
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 26, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
The Giants I Am Sure Understand This
But they also see with their eyes that he just isn’t laying off breaking pitches out of the zone and he struggles to make hard contact on these same breaking pitches even when they are in the zone.
by giantsrainman on Apr 26, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure the Giants understand this. If they did, they’d give more credence to the fact he’s hit some shots that were caught. I don’t think the Giants understand OBP, which is more basic than BABIP, so I’m not sure they would get BABIP.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 26, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
On what evidence? For all the weight you give the Giants ability to scout hitters….have you seen our offense the last 5, 6 years? What about that makes you think ttheir scouting staff does even an adequate job scouting MLB hitters?
by Missing Barry on Apr 28, 2010 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Kurkjian said on espn
…that he expects buster to get called up and play 1B/C
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
I have no idea what Huff’s stats are, historically, against lefties. But watching him on television so far this year, he seems to hang in pretty well against lefties – his front shoulder doesn’t fly open, he doesn’t commit too soon with his hips.
Your San Francisco Giants: exemplifying buzzard's luck since 2006.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
Fuck no.
Adopted Giant: Clayton Tanner
by walkoff baltimore chop on Apr 25, 2010 7:53 PM PDT reply actions
This is just not a good idea. What do we really think Posey’s bat is going to provide us this year? Between Bowker and Schierholtz, we have to have at least one guy that can give us something – and after a year where Bengie wOBA’d .308, we really need to keep Bengie’s bat in the lineup? Really? Bringing Posey up doesn’t solve anything. How about instead of letting Eugenio fucking Velez start we let a guy who can play good D with a .321 career wOBA start instead? Did I mention that’s higher than Bengie’s .312 career wOBA? The problem with this team is we piss away money on veterans and don’t stick to any semblance of a long term plan, and bringing Posey up to play anything but C is just compounding the problem.
How is he going to be ready for opening day next year without playing C and developing his C skills this year? How does it make it worthwhile to bring him up just to play OF? I know we all love Posey, but he’s not as good as Wieters was and Wieters only wOBA’d .330 last year….realistically, what are we going to get from Posey? So we lose tons of value from him by using him as a bandaid to fill in because we haven’t had any long term plan in the past…..and we continue not having any long term plans in the future. No. It’s fucking stupid, any gain will be marginal, if Posey’s problem is really his experience as C, well, we aren’t doing him any favors there. Bad idea. Bad, bad, bad idea.
You want an idea? Here’s an idea – get Eugenio Velez out of the lineup. How does he have more PA’s than Bowker or Schierholtz? He sucks, he’s proven it over and over again, and nothing in his history says otherwise. Give Bowker and/or Schierholtz regular starts to hit through any mini-slumps they go through – did you know players perform better with regular PT? It’s true, and there’s been research to back it up. Hey, did you know both Schierholtz and Bowker are still projected to outhit Bengie for the rest of the season? Yeah, that’s what happens when you come off a year where you wOBA .308 at age 35 and you have a career .312 wOBA. If you want Posey’s bat, why not replace a bad hitter (Bengie)? Mostly, though, there isn’t a real solution out there right now, because we’re pissing away our money on Freddy Sanchez, DeRosa, Rowand, Uribe, Renteria, Huff, Bengie, we move guys like Pablo off of C to accomodate Bengie (sound familiar?) – which with Pablo is defensable and I agree with….but if that doesn’t show you just how having no semblance of a plan in place for the long term leads to problems down the road, I don’t know what to tell you. We don’t need more of this same BS BS. We need a real plan, one that makes some actual fucking sense.
by Missing Barry on Apr 26, 2010 8:04 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Something tells me you have strong feelings on this?
Of course, it’s hard to disagree. I am regularly shocked by Sabean’s poor management, bad decision-making and lack of a long-term outlook. I think the Giants will bring Posey up after they avoid Super 2 and play him at catcher and first base, falling right into the trap you foresee. And of course, Velez will continue to play while Bowker goes back to AAA once Rowand returns.
Damnit.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 26, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions

by 























