MadBum Isn't Hurt
But Sabean still felt the need to provide more than enough quotes bashing him for being "ill-prepared"
about 2 years ago
m34josh
69 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
I know it’s one start, but a solid outing + improved velocity = much, much relief on my part, particularly considering it came after a consultation with Tidrow about his mechanics. I’ll be ready to believe again once he starts doing it consistently, but another failure tonight would have sunk me into a deep despair.
Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.
Agreed.
Not too concerned about the low-k rate at this point either. He still needs to establish a consistent off-speed pitch to bump that number up a little.
by Squire_Boone on Apr 20, 2010 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I have to say that I like Tidrow a lot.
Proud father of Mark Gardner(29 years my senior): mastermind of our airtight relief corps, local boy, and owner of an unofficial no-no against the Dodgers.
I'm glad you chose to use his last name!
These pretzels are making me thirsty
by NuschlerFace on Apr 20, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
so does this mean we’re not going to cut his arm open and have a look around?
by FluLikeSymptoms on Apr 19, 2010 11:53 PM PDT reply actions
lmao, if they did that, i would have no faith in the giants medical staff. or bumgarners decision making skills. who cuts somebody open to explore?
I suppose that he suddenly came down with a case of ill-preparedness in the middle of last season and fell so far behind that it took him nine months to catch up.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
And he “caught up” by actually lowering his K/9 with 3k in 6IP. It’s now down to 6.2. Just as a point of reference, Matt Cain, who was also 20 when he came to the PCL, posted a 10.9 k/9 there, bumping his minor league career mark up to 10.1. Of course, Matt was also terribly wild, posting a 4.5 BB/9. Another fairly impressive part of Cain’s season, for a flyball pitcher in the PCL was his 1.4 HR/9. Thus far Bumgarner’s surrendered 4 HR in 13 IP
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Exactly. This didn’t happen over the winter. Sabean is an infuriating person.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Sabean is aninfuriating personjackass
Fixed
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 20, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Humility? Really, you are teach him humility? B/c he got fucking married he needs humility!
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
Bumgarner didn’t lose any velocity this spring. At least not more than any other starter. Go to Fangraphs and look at our stating pitchers’ fastball velocity: Zito lost half a mile, Lincecum lost 0.7, Cain lost 1.5, Sanchez lost 1.9, and Wellemeyer lost 2.2 MPH. We’re already two weeks into the season, and all our starters are still throwing weaker than they should, by an average of 1.4 MPH.
Throwing two MPH slower than you should is completely normal in ST. Considering Bumgarner averaged 89.2 MPH when he was in the majors last year (and that’s half out of the pen, he was about a mile slower when he started), and that the reports on him in the minors said he’s throwing in the high 80’s, there’s nothing that weird, if at all, about him throwing 86-88 in ST.
Bumgarner DID lost velocity – about 10 months ago, well before he got married. We were told not to be worried, because he was just tired. Sure, he had only thrown about 60 innings at the time, but, uhh…hmm, seems like we still haven’t heard an actual explanation.
Bumgarner can still be a very good pitcher. But it’s good to know that if things don’t work out for him, it won’t be because the Giants ignored two huge red flags last year (4 MPH velocity drop, K/9 down from elite to below average), but rather because he was busy getting married this off-season. Or, to quote Sabean in his radio interview, because of “his, uh, need, or, uhh, want, to, uh, get married”.
I was promised lasagna.
Also
Bochy might be infuriating at times, but he never struck me as unpleasant or anything. Sabean is truly a vain dick.
I was promised lasagna.
/mumblemumblemumblemumble
Adoptive father of the enigmatic Michael Sandoval, and living vicariously through his proximity to Joe Mauer and the Panda.
I actually like Bochy on a personal level, and I think he does a great job with the pitching staff/bullpen use. When it comes to hitters he can be really frustrating, its almost like he uses his bullpen mentality when it comes to regulars with the constant switching.
Brain Sabean, dude is probably in the top 10 for biggest asshole in SF (or even Northern California)
Matt Graham is an anagram for .... why don't you ask the scrabble expert!
by say hey nation on Apr 20, 2010 7:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, there is a big hole in the "he was lazy this offseason" explanation.
But, it will all be moot if Bumgarner continues to throw in the low-90s. We shall see. The next couple months should be interesting.
by Squire_Boone on Apr 20, 2010 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions
if Bumgarner continues to throw in the low-90s
Has anyone actually confirmed he was really throwing that hard? As in, a scout with his own radar gun?
by Missing Barry on Apr 20, 2010 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I doubt it
But in a way it doesn’t much matter. He’s not getting strikeouts.
Agreed. Like I said in the other MadBum thread:
I don’t have a velocity range I’m looking for, exactly – just that his velocity comes back in a noticeable way and it corresponds with a big jump in his K/9 up to acceptable levels. Like 8, 9+ K/9 would tell me his fastball is back/effective again.
by Missing Barry on Apr 20, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I do not believe the new velocity numbers
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 20, 2010 7:54 AM PDT reply actions
I still don't get the big deal about him getting married
Lots of ballplayers are married before they get to the majors, and I have to assume that most of them get hitched in the offseason; the seventh-inning stretch isn’t really long enough for a ceremony. Did MadBum take a three month honeymoon in Bali or something? If not then shut up about it already.
If he came in unprepared, then he’s accountable for that, whatever the reasons. This repeated harping on his marriage just comes off as petty and weird.
Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in Boston...I mean Pawtucket.
Brian is a vindictive soul
Madison shouldn’t have used Susan like that just to throw her aside and get married.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 20, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I blame his new stupid wife for not being capable of catching 85 mph fastballs. If she could catch the, he would have been able to get his necessary throwing in!
by Missing Barry on Apr 20, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Women. What’re you gonna do? Amirite?
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
Exactly
Can’t live without ‘em
Can’t throw 95 after marrying ’em
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 20, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
What’s Zito’s excuse?
"We're the kind of team people can identify with," Flannery said. "Our best pitcher weighs 150 pounds. Our shortstop is old. Our best hitter is ... big and our catcher is old and big."
Sabean is an a-hole – that’s my conclusion.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 20, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Here is the point
Wellmeyer as a veteran knew what he had to do to win a job. Bum as a 20 year old didn’t. Wellmeyer came in throwing well from the outset. In spring that is a big plus as the hitters are behind at the outset.
Bum didn’ throw well early. Yes, his velocity was down at the end of last year. But that may have been cause he was tired from the workload. So he needed to build up strength. According to Sabean he did not do that so he is behind.
I find nothing wrong with Sabean’s message. In fact I think it was primarily done to kill rumors of arm problems. But he also wanted, i suspect, to send a message to a kid – and that is what Bum is – that he need to work harder
Wellmeyer is showing what he is – a journeyman at best. If Bum continues to show improvement and he begins throwing the ball well, look for him to be up by July 1. Wellmeyer will not hold this job.
But that may have been cause he was tired from the workload. So he needed to build up strength. According to Sabean he did not do that so he is behind. I find nothing wrong with Sabean’s message.
Well, you’re not seeing a problem because you’re obviously taking those explanations as face value – you’ve accepted them as true. As for Bumgarner being up by July 1….if he wants to be an MLB caliber starter, he needs to improve quite substantially. Even if he gets his fastball back, there’s still the matter of “not having offspeed stuff”….
by Missing Barry on Apr 20, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
A lot of this is just guesswork, and ignores the arbitration-delaying component of keeping Bummy in the minors.
I will say this, though. Why couldn’t Sabean just talk to Bumgarner about this instead of bad-mouthing him to the newspapers? Why couldn’t he have his 20 year-old prospect’s back in front of the media?
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Yes – public criticism is unwarranted, and I am shocked that Sabean tosses it out so easily. It’s just not good management.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 20, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Wellmeyer as a veteran knew what he had to do to win a job. Bum as a 20 year old didn’t.
I disagree with the premise. Bumgarner was on a train back to Fresno very day that Wellemeyer signed his contract. A 20 year old with one plus pitch and velocity concerns from the previous year does not win the fifth starter job on any team that has so much as a lukewarm body to fill that spot instead.
Wellemeyer knew what he had to do to win the job because what he had to do to win the job was sign the contract, and he had already done that. Bumgarner as a 20 year old didn’t know what he had to do to win the job because there was nothing he could have done. The decision was made before Spring Training even started. Done. Over. It was a non-competition.
The problem with Sabean is that he’s taking the tone that Bumgarner being preoccupied by non-baseball activities (one of them being the death of his sister) during the offseason was WRONG of the young man. He’s an asshole because it’s unreasonable to expect anybody to be in a mid-season mental state when he spent the offseason enjoying the highs of love and the lows of death. It’s completely unsympathetic, and completely assholey.
It also serves to ignore actual problems. “Oh, Bumgarner’s velocity is down now because he spent so much time in the offseason attending to his worthless family” is what Sabean is saying. In reality, that’s factually incorrect. Bumgarner’s velocity was down well before the offseason ever began, and suggesting that it would magically come back by either not getting married or not mourning is fucking insane and irrational.
Rationally, Bumgarner was either injured or fatigued last season when his velocity went down. Alternately, his mechanics may have been compromised.
The most rational explanations for continued low velocity, therefore, are that he’s 1) still injured, 2) still suffering a dead arm period, or 3) still mechanically fucked.
The most irrational explanation for his continued low velocity is that he got married and his sister died. Sabean can go fuck himself on this one. There’s no defense for being an asshole about the things that happened to Bumgarner’s over winter, especially when that assholism is presented under the guise of an explanation for what is otherwise easily explainable ineffectiveness.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Apr 20, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 9 recs
Yes
WHY IS BENGIE?!
Dearest, Susan - The Patron Saint of Patience
by Lars The Wanderer on Apr 20, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
rec
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
I agree with most of this, but I think if Bumgarner would have pitched really well this Spring (or if Kevin Pucetas would have pitched really well for that matter) they would have been very happy to give him the 5th starter job. I don’t think the organization has some kind of undying loyalty to Todd Wellmeyer.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Apr 20, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
did he pitch really well?
Statistically he was very similar to Wellemeyer, I didn’t see any of their starts, so that’s really all that I can go by. Reports out of Spring Training had Wellemeyer with very good velocity, and I don’t remember much of a buzz surrounding Pucetas.
Pucetas: 18.2 IP, 2.89 ERA, 14 H, 6 BB, 7 K
Wellemeyer: 30 IP, 2.70 ERA, 25 H, 12 BB, 15 K
by FluLikeSymptoms on Apr 20, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Eli Whiteside said halfway through spring training that Pucetas was the best pitcher he’d caught in the spring.
The buzz on Pucetas isn’t there because he has a pedestrian fastball, but 91-92 isn’t sub-par, especially when he has four pitches and good control. And the year before Bumgarner had the lowest ERA in all of the minors, you know who had it? Pucetas.
Pucetas isn’t going to blow anyone away, even I’ll admit that. But I do think Pucetas is better than Wellemeyer.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Check out the new look of SFDugout.com•
by BruteSentiment on Apr 20, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
If I had a choice between watching Wellemeyer mouth off
about the Cardinals’ pitching staff while taking down a million from the team as a Number 5, or promoting from within and seeing Pucetas earn what might be his only chance to break the rotation and grow into a Number 5, my choice is easily the latter.
But then I’d also opt for a classy GM who didn’t come across as a stupid low-life POS that had no use for statistical analysis as well.
So I guess I’m 0-2.
And that’s before I saw Sabean say the Giants had no use for Jermaine Dye while they struggle to hit lefties. Because we all know that a .913 OPS against lefties is of no use to this crappy offense.
Responsible for the last great homegrown Giants team.
You had me until the last paragraph. I disagree with any suggestion that Jermaine Dye should be on this team.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 20, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Is not just a velocity issue with Pucetas, though. His K rates have been consistently mediocre to terrible throughout his minor league career. A guy with four solid pitches and good control ought to be able to get batters off balance enough to strike some of them out (particularly a college player going against a teen heavy Sally league for instance). And yet he stands now with a career 6.4 K/9 and those numbers have plummeted since he got to the high minors. At the same time, he’s not a dramatic ground ball pitcher either.
That’s a hard package to get excited about (I know, I know TWSS).
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Agreed.
Actually at the time they signed Wellemeyer (to a minor league contract), Bobby Evans said they were looking at him as a long reliever. I think Wellemeyer really did pitch his way into the starting job (with the help of Bumgarner pitching his way out of it).
Adoptive parent of Kevin Frandsen, now stopping gaps in Boston...I mean Pawtucket.
Sabean is a dick. Didn’t Bumgarner’s sister or half-sister die during spring training or just before that?
I don’t think Sabean was putting blame on MadBum for not being prepared. He just stated that he wasn’t prepared. There wasn’t much bashing in the article.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
I would agree here except that Sabean has now made repeated disparaging comments about Bumgarner’s winter. He’s called it a “lesson learned”, saying that Bumgarner “strayed from the team.” He’s been openly critical not of Bumgarner’s lack of supposed preparedness, but specifically of his marriage. And it really isn’t just this one article. I’ve heard him say similar things repeatedly over the last few months.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Apr 20, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah – Sabean has said this before. I think maybe he’s just a bitter old man, but then I conclude he’s just an asshole.
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Apr 20, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
First losing season of the Sabean era: 2005. Date of Sabean's current marriage: 2005
Lesson learned?
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Print Email Font Resize
Sabean: Giants’ Madison Bumgarner was ‘ill-prepared’ this spring
By Andrew Baggarly
abaggarly@mercurynews.com
Posted: 04/19/2010 09:23:59 PM PDT
Updated: 04/19/2010 10:51:36 PM PDT
Blogs about the Giants
* Extra Baggs
* Talking Points with Tim Kawakami
More about the Giants
* Giants forum: Talk with fellow fans
* Twitter: Extra Baggs’ feed
* Schedule
* Roster
* Your photos & video: Post your game day pics and video
* Team shop: Get your gear on
* Giants section: News and more
MLB coverage
* Scoreboard
* Stats
* Standings
Latest Giants news
Sabean: Bumgarner was ‘ill-prepared’ this spring
SAN DIEGO — Conspiracy theories abound as to why left-hander Madison Bumgarner suddenly became so hittable at Triple-A Fresno.
According to Brian Sabean, there is nothing physically the matter with the 20-year-old. But the Giants’ general manager provided a frank assessment of where things went off track for the heralded prospect.
“It’s this simple: He was preoccupied this winter and it cost him,” Sabean said. "He had personal stuff to straighten out, getting married, and he was ill-prepared to come into spring training. I don’t know how much he threw to get ready.
“Some of it is our fault because we didn’t track him as well as maybe we should. We’ve got to do a better job eyeballing that.”
After an unimpressive spring in which he lost the No. 5 job in the rotation and struggled to hit 90 mph, Bumgarner got hit hard in his first two starts for Fresno, giving up 11 runs and 21 hits in seven innings.
“To compete as a major league pitcher, you can’t be in catch-up mode,” Sabean said. “He’s still in the throes of that. He’s still in spring training mode, and Triple-A is not forgiving. The (Pacific Coast League) is a hitter’s league, it always has been, and if you make mistakes you won’t be forgiven.”
Sabean said vice president and pitching guru Dick Tidrow spent time with Bumgarner over the weekend to help tweak his mechanics. The
Advertisement
session appeared to pay off.
Bumgarner rebounded with a much better effort Monday, holding Portland to three hits and two runs (one earned) in six innings. According to Fresno broadcaster Doug Greenwald, the scoreboard radar gun had Bumgarner’s fastball consistently in the low 90s, topping out at 93 mph.
“Because of how he throws across his body, it’s a timing thing, like a hitter with a hitch in his swing,” Sabean said. "When he’s in sync, he’s throwing downhill. He hadn’t done that.
“Right now, he’s got three things against him: His slow start, the mechanical issues and the pressures of Triple-A. But he’s a good athlete and a good talent and he’ll figure it out.”
Sabean said the organization remains high on Bumgarner because of the way he buzzed through the low minors.
“Oh, you have to be,” Sabean said. “In a lot of ways, this will be good for him. It’ll toughen him up and teach him some humility, and teach him how you approach the job on a year-round basis.”
— ANDREW BAGGARLY
Print Email Font ResizeReturn to Top
Comments
We are pleased to let readers post comments about an article. Please increase the credibility of your post by including your full name and city in the body of your comment.
FAQ: Article commenting how-tos and tips
Recent Comments
Post Your Comment
Sports News
* breaking news
* scores / stats
* more
- Peterson: Sharks need to show resilience
- Poole: Raiders need to strengthen their offensive line
- San Francisco Giants again find little joy in Southland
- Oakland A’s spoil Phil Hughes’ no-hitter but little else in New York Yankees’ win
- San Jose Sharks Joe Pavelski making name with clutch goals
- Todd Wellemeyer struggling, but San Francisco Giants not yet talking about replacing him
- NFL Draft first round order
- Wednesday’s high school results
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Apr 22, 2010 7:25 AM PDT reply actions
Uh, whoops. That whole thing wasn't supposed to appear...
Recent Comments
- crickets -
How come nobody takes it to him in the MSM?
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Apr 22, 2010 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I was going to post my comment there but then saw there were no other comments, so I figured no one would read it anyway.
I was promised lasagna.
DO the astute amongst us take it to the streets?
Or is the discourse confined to this place?
Honestly, if I had my finger on the pulse of the subtleties I’d have no problem sticking my neck out, but I’m way out of my depth with that.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Apr 22, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
