Giants Season Preview
I started a website, Bullpen Banter, with a few buddies from Minorleagueball.com, an SBN affiliate. We had a round table chat about the Giants and thought we should share it with you and get your feed back. We think there is some good content here. Enjoy.
JD Sussman: In 2009, the Giants had, by far, the worst offense in Major League Baseball. For the entire season, they had just three hitters who were above average. Of course, you know Pablo Sandoval and Juan Uribe, but the other name is not as familiar, Andres Torres. Despite being on a variety of big and minor league rosters since 2002, Torres has accumulated just 455 plate appearances at the major league level. Most likely, the 32 year old outfielder will not repeat his career best 2009. Frankly, this line up is pretty ugly, the organization's sole offensive bright spot outside of the Panda is Buster Posey. Who for some reason, is blocked by Bengie Molina.
GM Brian Sabean tried to upgrade, but failed. Luckily, they have great pitching, so if they succeed, it will be because they stayed healthy and got a big boost from their top pitching prospect, Madison Bumgarner. I'm the minority, but I've got them coming in second.
Al Skorupa: I really disagree with the way this team is run. The offense is still pathetic. What in the world made Brian Sabean think the corpse of Aubrey Huff could fix the lineup? Probably was the same reason he moved for Ryan Garko last year. Sabean has made a regular habit of overpaying for mediocre players, both in free agency and through trade. Sign 35 year old Mark DeRosa? Not a bad idea. Play him in LF where he's a unexceptional defender and a pretty fringy bat? Wha.... why? This team's roster is littered up and down with bad contracts. Zito. Renteria. Rowand. I really lay it all at the foot of Brian Sabean.
Joe Sheehan had a great line about the Steinbrenner sons... he said "[t]hey don't know what they're doing and they're very aggressive about it. Well, Hank and Hal just won a title - though they had to hand out over half a billion dollars in contracts last offseason to do it. This quote still fits Brian Sabean to a tee. He's done a pretty good job of developing young pitching... and that's about it. What's troublesome isn't that so, so many of his moves have failed as much as so many of them were clearly the result of a flawed thought process and never really had a chance to succeed.
Michael Herrick: The Giants have a few nice pieces here and there, but they're getting close to a point where all the bad moves Sabean has made over the years are going to really hurt them. A good example of this would be the trades last year that netted the Giants Freddy Sanchez and Ryan Garko. Sanchez is an average hitter who plays above average defense at 2B. They had Juan Uribe who was hitting well and about as good defensively as Sanchez, and while I wouldn't want to rely on Uribe long term, I feel the same way about Sanchez. They gave up Tim Alderson for Freddy, and while Alderson may not be more than a potential #3 starter he was likely to be more valuable to the team than Sanchez. Same thing for Scott Barnes who was traded for Garko. Neither player they received was the missing piece the Giants needed to contend, so they essentially gave away two starting pitchers for nothing.
Pablo Sandoval is the best thing going for this team offensively, though I'm not sure if he's more valuable being a below average 3B or moving to 1B where he might not be more than average. Buster Posey should join him in the heart of the Giants order for years to come, but when Posey gets that chance is a guess at this point. I like Nate Schierholtz a little bit, but he's the only other hitter I can really say anything nice about. There is such an amalgamation of overpaid vets dotting the rest of the roster...I don't get it. Does Sabean think he's wasting the years they have Cain and Lincecum around if he lets some of the younger guys get a real shot at playing time? If they don't start to build something that resembles a future contender, what incentive will there be for Cain and Lincecum to stick around once they have the option to leave?
In the second half last year Jonathan Sanchez seemed to finally make the leap from thrower to pitcher, giving the Giants hope that "Lincecum and Cain, then pray for rain" won't have to be the battle cry any longer. Only four more guaranteed years of Barry Zito! Obviously he's unlikely to ever pitch well enough to earn his money, but he was better last year and is a good #4 starter. I think the Giants are making a mistake if Bumgarner is going to be the 5th starter this year. I'm one of his biggest supporters but I think that he could use some more time in AAA to finish refining his secondary stuff. Seeing as how this team isn't going anywhere anyway, giving the job to Todd Wellemeyer certianly wouldn't hurt too much. The back end of the pen is solid with Brian Wilson, Jeremy Affeldt, Dan Runzler, and Sergio Romo. Waldis Joaquin is a guy to watch, he could be a closer candidate in a few years.
We've also got a review of the team's top moves, worst moves, and two prospects to watch. Stop by and let us know what you think.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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I take it that you meant “the worst offense in major league baseball”.
Mark DeRosa knows that it's hard to sound intelligent with a Jersey accent.
my bad!
Your are correct. I’m changing it now.
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His what are correct?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Mar 16, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Did you mean offense?
JD Sussman: In 2009, the Giants had, by far, the worst defense in Major League Baseball.
I know UZR isn’t a perfect metric, but I believe the Giants had the fourth highest UZR in the majors in 2009. The defense was a strong point.
I assume you meant the offense was terrible in ’09, which is a much easier statement to agree with. Unfortunately, I doubt the offensive “upgrades” will mean more wins, especially when defensive regression is taken into consideration.
Please tell me we have moved past the dark ages of post hoc ergo propter hoc.
he was right I ment offense!
Sorrry!
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Sorry for repeating oldjacket. He snuck in his reply right before I did.
Please tell me we have moved past the dark ages of post hoc ergo propter hoc.
by Yeti Monster on Mar 16, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
its all good
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One more comment
I think you might have meant worst offense
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Yup
Sorry for the mix up!
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I’m just busting your balls. We do that a lot here at McC
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
haha
I figured. Glad you at least read the beginning! ;-)
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Is it possible that you meant the worst OFFENSE and not the worst DEFENSE? Because I think that’s probably what you meant. I don’t know if anyone’s brought this up yet, but I figured I’d let you know.*
Generally in agreement; I didn’t like the DeRosa signing at all, because the last thing we need is more 30+ year olds with recent injuries. But the staff will make this team a contender, and if the lineup can do something, anything, we’ve got a shot at the postseason. And Runzler and Romo are probably better closer candidates than Waldis Joaquin.
*GOOFUS WUZ RITE!
Possible uses for your Steven Johnson: 5th starter, long reliever, batboy, go-fer, food taster. Just keep him on the roster!
Waldis throws hard. Some closers throw hard. Waldis will be a closer some day.
TRUTH
#1 FanShot Champion
Is it possible that you meant SCIENCE and not TRUTH? Because I think that’s probably what you meant.
Possible uses for your Steven Johnson: 5th starter, long reliever, batboy, go-fer, food taster. Just keep him on the roster!
In Baseball Mogul he was an All-Star as a SP. Suck on that, truth!
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Mar 16, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
This article really pisses me off
Mainly because I agree with 99% of it.
Proud member of The Gentlemen of Leisure.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Mar 16, 2010 1:44 PM PDT reply actions
I agree with pretty much everything, except that Uribe is defensively the same as Freddy Sanchez. Outside of that, yeah. And thinking about the trades last year just makes me sad. And why keep F. Sanchez but not Garko? Bah.
Eagerly anticipating adding to my Giants family.
by giantsfansince1981 on Mar 16, 2010 1:48 PM PDT reply actions
why keep F. Sanchez but not Garko?
Because Sabean couldn’t justify spending $12MM over 2 year to keep Garko. Duh.
/ ducks!
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at - 25%
/Throws steaming pile of Garko at dave’s head.
Eagerly anticipating adding to my Giants family.
by giantsfansince1981 on Mar 16, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
For the entire season, they had just three hitters who were above replacement level.
Do you mean above average? And if you park-adjust their wOBA’s (like at statcorner.com), more than three Giants were above average last season.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
I did... It got changed last minute actually
I need to change that bad too.. RAA not RAR… lol sorry for all the errors!
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It was actually right on our site
Don’t know why I changed it when I pasted it here…
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Question
Are you guys Giants fans? If not, screw you guys for slamming our team! Only we can slam our team like that.
(Eliminateme refers to this as the “only we can beat up our little brother” syndrome.)
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
haha no we aren't
I’m a Mets fan (and I slam them much harder!). Al is located in the north east too, and he is a Boston fan. Mike is a fan of the team across the bay, the Oakland A’s, and Steve (comments not listed here) is in Austin Texas and is a Sox fan too.
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That must be why it’s so terrible then.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Mar 16, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I slam them much harder
TWSS
Eagerly anticipating adding to my Giants family.
by giantsfansince1981 on Mar 16, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
lol
But most women don’t really do the slamming (I think).
Johnny, could you clarify?
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“But most women don’t really do the slamming”
Fine, I’ll fix it:
That’s what she Kevin Elster said.
Better?
Proud member of The Gentlemen of Leisure.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Mar 16, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
So you guys are located all over the country...
…and got together for a Giants round table discussion?
Hey Grant! How come we mods here don’t have a travel budget?!
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
I’m not sure it has. Let’s do that
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Mar 16, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Is it really journalism?
To summarize the last 9 months of MCC bitching and call it your “season preview”.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
BODY BIAS!!!
Proud member of The Gentlemen of Leisure.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Mar 16, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Above average hitter, yes.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Readers Digest Version
Neukom — self-admitted know-nothing. established and proven by contract extensions to the twin towers of idocy Sabean and Bochy
Sabean— The progenitor of the “Washed Up Veterans first, last and always” war strategy. If his “openmindedness” and “ability to adapt to change” were water he could not put out a match in a monsoon. If this guy were in charge of WWII he would have drafted nothing but Civil War vets
Bochy—Career W/L Record .490 postseason 8-16. Post Season. He needs to go back to San Diego and valet park in the Gas lamp District, or ride a skateboard in Pacific Beach. Has all the leadership qualities of George Custer
Zito-Overpaid birkenstock brat who thinks hanging a curveball in ST to Fielder in the back is “squaring up accounts”. Starred in James Bond movie Goldfinger as “Pussy Galore” Just in case, his contract for 126 million wasn’t enough:
Cotts Contracts:
o Cy Young award: $0.5M for winning once, $0.75M for 2nd time, $1M each for 3 or more ($0.2M for placing 2nd in vote, $0.15M for 3rd, $0.1M for 4th, $50,000 for 5th)
o MVP: $0.25M for winning, $0.15M for 2nd place in vote, $0.1M for 3rd, $75,000 for 4th, $50,000 for 5th
o $0.2M for WS MVP
o $0.1M each for Gold Glove, All Star selection, LCS MVP
* perks: suite on road trips
Aaron Rowand. 33 going on 14. Only a douchebag from Fullerton State wears his hat backwards in baggy shorts while driving James Bond’s car. And only a guy who uses cyclone fences for face strainers thinks owning a 10,000 square foot house on a 5000 square foot lot in Las Vegas is “Class” because there’s a mall-cop with gate. His agent spread-eagled Sabean for 60 million when he refused to tip for Rownads pizza. Thats the only logical explanation.
Renteria. This guy is eligible for Medicare. WTF. Nuff said
Freddy Sanchez. If this guy had a bolt in his neck, he would still be in worse shape than Frankenstein’s bride. (sorry Vic)
Aubrey Huff. Only an asshat with an ops under .600 in Detroit who shows up at radio interviews drunk and makes home made videos with porn skanks would get signed to hit cleanup on a Sabean team.
Benige Molina. A guy with an obp under 300 and man-tits who is slower than a pregnant boar gets paid millions and offered incentives based on games played. How retarded is this.
Eugenio Velez. Hit ball, puts his right foot in, puts his right foot out, he does the hokey pokey and he shakes it all around, then he takes off for first. Only guy with 4.3. speed that can convert to 5.9 results. Useless. He should try out for the Jamaican bobsled team next year. Better yet, the luge.
Here are the cumulative OPS of the free-agents that Sabean signed this offseason and last to start this year. This following 3 splendid years of turning NL pitchers into HOF material. This is what they did after being dumped on other teams who “thought” these jackasses would get them into the playoffs.
Sanchez OPS .619
DeRosa OPS .696
Huff OPS .567
Rent OPS .635
Molina OPS .727
Nothing like fielding one half of a team. The problem with watching a crap team like this, even if the great pitching holds up is that if a ballgame goes three hours, over 2 hours of it is going to be watching Giants opponents at the plate, an act that everybody here is quite familiar, and frankly I think is going to show up in the pitching this year. Too few minutes in the dugout between innings year after year takes its toll on the starting pitching. Maybe.
by E Ticket on Mar 16, 2010 5:50 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Better yet, the luge.
No quarter asked, none given.
Please tell me we have moved past the dark ages of post hoc ergo propter hoc.
by Yeti Monster on Mar 16, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Did either the Giants, Zito or his agent actually think to include those MVP incentives? The suite deal is a sweet deal though.
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Mar 16, 2010 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions
that kind of stuff makes me laugh
If you make $16M a year, do you really need the team to pay for a suite? It’s like people buying a fancy house and making sure the old refrigerator stays with the house.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Mar 16, 2010 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
More like: “Seller agrees to include litterbox, decon, fly swatters, old bandages, and grease traps”
Its a tax thing. 100 percent write off for orgnaization, partially deductible subject to formula and other happy horseshit if the player pays with from income. Basically the difference between a company car and upgrading to a Navigator and deducting the operating costs. Its less hassle and expense if the club pays for it.
Frankly, its all fucking bullshit when you’re quibbling over the taxability of .0001 of your gross salary. But we’re talking Scott Boras and Barry Zito here. The anti-christ and the anti-jock
by E Ticket on Mar 17, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
salaries are 100% deductible to the organization anyway
I suspect the game on the part of the player involves valuation of the “perk” rather than the cold, hard, cash, but these things still amuse me.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Mar 17, 2010 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Tax advantage for the player?
I thought perhaps they’re items that are not taxable income for the player since things like a company car and seat upgrades aren’t in the real world.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Really? Seat upgrades aren’t? Isn’t that what they nabbed all those NBA refs for tax evasion for? Or maybe they were somehow selling their upgrades and flying coach or something?
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Yeah
They were selling their upgrades, sitting in coach and pocketing the cash. That’s a taxable event.
Your employer putting you in first class isn’t taxable. Neither is collecting frequent flyer miles for a business trip.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
this is not tax advice
gross income means all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to)
It’s all taxable, but it’s a lot easier to determine the value (and hard to avoid reporting) salary. For example, frequent flyer miles earned with business travel are, or were, theoretically taxable but the IRS eventually gave up trying to enforce/audit the rule except where they are somehow cashed out. It’s not always worth the expense for them to chase and collect some non-reported things, particularly where proof can be hard.
Car rules are pretty complex, but paying for a player’s DeLorean (hi delorean) is income to the player where he drives it back and forth to his house, as opposed to solely using it in the outfield towing the batting cage.
"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Mar 18, 2010 6:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Couldn't Zito argue that the box is related to his job?
Hmmm, my misunderstanding.
I would think Zito might have a case that the suite is related to his job since it allows him to host work-realted events. Total BS, but I could see that argument.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Also not tax advice, but I think this is correct.
Eagerly anticipating adding to my Giants family.
by giantsfansince1981 on Mar 18, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
The Sabean Method

Proud parent of the new dominant pitching sensation out of San Diego State University.
I actually swoon when you're on point.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Mar 16, 2010 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions

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