My National Pastime Can Beat Up Your National Pastime
by Tycho on Feb 6, 2010 8:39 PM PST
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or Why Latin America Made Me Appreciate Baseball All the More
Troll that I am, I've been following this website religiously even during the off-season, rarely commenting myself. However, those few times I have commented I may have mentioned that was living down in Santiago, Chile, and managed to live outside of the Bay Area for the most exciting Giants' season in recent memory.
That said, my addiction to the national pastime has remained strong and, in between "Governator" jokes from people who find out I'm from California, I've been finding myself often debating the relative merits of professional sports with other Gringos. Well, it seems that most of the world is enamored with this strange game of "football," whereas the consensus is that baseball is "boring" and "too slow."
Fuck that.
I've made an effort, watching dozens of games and even going to games in three separate Latin American countries, and I can safely say that anybody who calls insults baseball and advocates soccer in the same breath has issues. Granted, Latin American soccer never claims to be as crazy as European soccer, but I've been etching out a short list of myths and truths about this strange sport:
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Tie games are not fun to watch. I don't care if it's been a good, hard-fought game or if the tie has strategic importance; being blue-ballsed at the end of a 90-minute game is an infuriating experience.
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That said, ending a game with penalty kicks, while fun, does not accurately represent the whole of the team and is based on a singular luck of the draw. The closest parallel would be if after 9 innings a baseball game were decided by a Home Run Derby, with every player on each team getting a free swing at a pitch of their choice, or perhaps if the two coaches played a very short game of Russian Roulette to decide the winner.
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Not only can't you fake an injury in a baseball game, but even if you could it wouldn't do any good. Any game that rewards people for taking spills on the slightest provocation, clutching their legs, eyes scrunched up to keep the tears at bay while crying for mommy, only to get up and keep running five seconds later, should have known to expect it. Honestly, being a medic for a soccer team must be the most irritating and useless position, knowing that the idiot player writhing on the ground probably didn't actually just break that leg, but you have to go through the motions anyway and call for the stretcher.
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You can't tie in a baseball game. You play until the game is over, even if you need to send your starting pitchers out to pinch run or your third-basemen behind the plate.
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A baseball game that ends at 1-0 is usually mercifully short, capped by outstanding defense along with, admittedly, a frustrating offense. A soccer game that ends 1-0 (most of them) will most often be characterized by missed pass after missed pass and a lack of overall offense, and despite the 90 minutes on the clock will feel like an entire day has been wasted (personal experience speaking here).
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While soccer isn't the only culprit here, I hate it when you reach that point in a game where "clock management" enters the game, which is just a nicer name for "stalling" until the point where the other team, Boise State-style natural disasters aside, couldn't possibly come back to win. You can always come back in baseball, even if you don't have Steve Fucking Finley on your team because, as I may have mentioned, you can't tie in a baseball game.
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One of the main critiques of baseball is that "it's stop-and-start, whereas soccer is pure adrenaline. Who needs to score? It's all about the strategy!" Well, cross country running has quite a bit of running, but you don't see soccer hooligans lining up to fight in the name of their favorite runners.
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I miss baseball dearly, clearly, and I'm excited to come home and watch what I hope will be a great season. I'm just tired of this misconception that soccer really is like you see in the highlight reel with great kick after great kick, while baseball is stop-and-start boredom;. I've tried to love soccer, I really have.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Granted, Latin American soccer never claims to be as crazy as European soccer
I’d much rather watch a match in Europe over South America, less chance of dying. Unless you’re in Liverpool of course, they’ve killed their own.
Viva Ken Barlow
I took a young 10 year old kid from Peru to a baseball game.
He had been a soccer fan, but I explained baseball to him, as did my kids, and he is now a serious baseball fan. I am going to send you post to my buddy who is in Medical School in Equador. I hope your south American colleagues can take your post with a sense of humor. No doubt baseball is the greatest game ever invented. Michael Jordan, Jimmy Rice, Johnny Unitas, ain’t no “Willie Mays”
I used to give soccer no more thought than I did nuclear physics or the geopolitical situation in Southeast Asia. I had no experience either competing in it or watching it so there wasn’t any interest.
Then came the World Cup played in America, and my perception changed somewhat.
This stuff is somewhat akin to Lincecum’s three pitch strikeouts. There’s skill here.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Feb 6, 2010 10:00 PM PST up reply actions
European (club) soccer is also played at a much higher level than South American soccer.
by InTimmyWeTrust on Feb 7, 2010 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
That might be difficult – I think he may have been banned. I suspect it’s referring to the 1989 trampling incident.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Feb 9, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions
I like soccer too. That reminds me – I once saw this thing online about these people who traveled around the world to make a movie about people playing soccer in tons of different countries. Not sure if they ever finished it, but it looked really cool. I would also love to see someone try to do a movie like that about baseball, although it’s not quite as widespread, but I’m sure there’s some good stuff to be found in central/south america and asia.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
Here’s the thing with soccer people. Same goes for hockey fans too. Why do they get so riled up if somebody is not interested in their pastime, hobby, sport etc.?
Does it matter to baseball fans that a lot, if not most soccer fans, have not clue one as to the significance of Alex Rodriguez, Yankee Stadium or Omar Minaya? I don’t believe so.
There are at least a billion people who don’t like baseball…at least. So what? How does that affect a baseball fan’s enjoyment of baseball? So why do soccer folks get all bent when they are told “not interested”?
Maybe if pitchers kicked the ball instead of threw it, and everybody had to jog in place, and the batter had to hold a bat with his knees and the catcher had to stop all the pitches with his chest protector and head maybe these folks would find baseball more appealing. It would certainly be more ridiculous.
I don’t follow competitive knitting or American Idol. Nobody seems to be bothered by that. So whats the deal with the soccer folks? Why are they so angst ridden if somebody doesn’t give a crap about soccer. Why are they so intent on berating folks with the awesomeness of their sport.
Why do soccer folks get so defensive about their sport? Why is it when you tell somebody you don’t follow soccer, that all of a sudden they either want to punch you or convert you? I’ve listened to Jehovah’s Witnesses with less intensity for goodness sakes. Why should it matter if I don’t care?
by E Ticket on Feb 7, 2010 7:51 AM PST reply actions
American “fans” of the sport are clueless and not worth bothering with in the first place.
Why so angry?
Viva Ken Barlow
"American "fans" of the sport are clueless and not worth bothering with in the first place"
Well, thats kind of what I am talking about.
by E Ticket on Feb 7, 2010 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
I think one of the reasons that people get a bit defensive about soccer
is because certain media types (Jim Rome, I’m talking about you) have a vendetta against the game; the want to describe it as un-American, effeminate, socialist… so yeah. Sometimes a little explanation is needed.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco
Well to be honest with you, I’ve only heard Rome go off twice on soccer. And only because he was getting whined at by soccer jihadists to publicize their game. To me it resembles River Dancing with a ball.
If the zealots quit proselytizing , maybe soccer would not be held in such low regard by so many Americans. Nobody goes on the radio and rants about lacrosse, or steeple chasing or bobsledding because nobody cares. Nobody from crew or the x-games is up in my face trying to convince me how good their sport is.
Frankly, all the forced soccer happy talk has a deletrious effect. Its kind of like if you have to tell me constantly how good you are, you probably aren’t. Its no different than spinach and little kids. If folks didn’t try to force spinach down a kids throat, kids would not grow up and hate spinach. If somebody is in your face all of the time uninvited, you would get pissed off and resentful too.
by E Ticket on Feb 11, 2010 8:30 AM PST up reply actions
if you’re stuck liking soccer, you must feel you have to explain why all the time. I think it’s possibly the worst competitive sport in the history of mankind (including competitive eating, which I just find disgusting). Deep down, futbol fans know this. Therefore, they have to riot, drink to the point of passing out (only to boot and rally), then fight somebody just to justify liking some fierce jogging with an occasional pass.
there have never been fights in football. and no-one drinks in any other sport.
good point!
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco
I was being sarcastic
but two points, bob. I don’t remember the widespread violence in other sports that occurs during soccer games. I don’t remember fans beating each other to death, or trampling their fellow spectators as has happened more than once during soccer matches.
Secondly, please come up with a better defense than “well..your sport does it too!” And comparing faking injuries to steroids is just silly.
I am not not a big soccer fan, but like VIc mentioned, the World Cup is pretty fun to watch. Other than the WC, I could care less.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Feb 7, 2010 8:34 AM PST reply actions
My BF got a kick out of this.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 7, 2010 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
I’ve always maintained that people who don’t like baseball are people who like football (American football, not soccer). The fundamental difference is that football is continuous action, while baseball is a thinking man’s game. Obviously you can like both, but most of the anti-baseball people complain that it’s too boring and slow. This is because their attention spans are for exactly two minutes, or approximately how long each play takes in football. Given an at-bat can take anywhere from ten seconds to five minutes, and there is a lot of doing nothing while thinking of what to do next between pitches, they get easily bored. Soccer is in a similar boat; there is continuous action, so it’s not hard to stay engaged. They also point to the preponderance of fat guys in baseball as a sign that the sport is not very athletic; of course, they’ve never tried to swing a small stick of wood at a tiny orb traveling 95 miles an hour and blast it 400 feet, and they’ve never seen the research that says we’ll never have pitchers who throw 110 MPH because we’re already pushing the human arm as far as it can go before something breaks. Frequently, once people understand the strategy of baseball, they begin to enjoy it, but this is not something easily done (whereas football and soccer aren’t very difficult to understand). And while people point to football as the most popular American sport, I do not think this is the case; I’m pretty sure that it’d be damned hard to get baseball tickets if they only had 16 games a year instead of 162.
I have this argument with Mr. Merope quite a bit… I think NFL type football is popular because of gambling and fantasy/pick em (essentially another form of gambling, I guess.)
We both enjoy soccer though. I played throughout high school and college and enjoy the tactics and skill of futbol. We’re looking forward to the World Cup this summer.
Fantasy baseball used to be the most popular, according to wiki.
It would be interesting to learn the changing dynamics of why certain regions prefer certain sports.
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Feb 9, 2010 1:06 AM PST up reply actions
The fundamental difference is that football is continuous action, while baseball is a thinking man’s game.
Or maybe not, as per this Wall Street Journal article (may be behind a pay wall). Basically, some WSJ researchers observed four broadcasts and found that there was a grand total of only 11 minutes of action in a handegg game on average.
I take your point, though. I’ve argued with people before that baseball is a fantastic spectator sport because the pauses between each pitch invite the spectator to think along with the players. Of course this is also its turnoff, I guess.
Philosophically, baseball and gridiron are very different games
baseball is a Homeric battle of two heroes; a mano a mano struggle between batter and pticher, Achilles against Hector, complete with the two opposing sides standing around supporting their heroes.
Gridiron, on the other hand, is all about the mastermind controlling the milling masses, causing them to do his bidding to defeat the enemy.
And, yknow. 22 people running into each other until someone has had enough.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco
I’m not sure I agree that football isn’t a thinking man’s game.
I mean yes, it has more violence and action and all that. And the majority of fans focus on that.
But it seems to boil down to a chess match between coaches and the respective leaders on offense and defense. I like to fancy myself an incredible baseball GM, in that you just get the best players on a budget constraint. But in football, you need to have a system tailored towards your players, or vice versa.
The same strategy that goes into baseball during stoppage time can be applied to football. Run? Pass? Play action? How effective has each been so far? What is the defense expecting? Where is the defense showing weakness? Same for Defense, blitz, zone, man, I can’t comprehend it to the extent I can baseball.
There’s a lot to play calling and defensive coverage that I don’t understand – even after an on again/off again decade of Madden.
But maybe that’s a result of being so casual with the sport for the past 4 years or so. (Hate to admit I’m a bandwagoner, last full game I watched was when we got blown out by the Seahawks on SNF 2 years ago. Looking forward to next season though)
As for futbol, I haven’t had much experience outside of Fifa 2000. I choose the best team, which happened to be Chelsea. I was in Thailand recently though and all the show on ESPN is premier league. Also I really got into Winning Eleven, there were arcades for that everywhere. I’m learning about the players and like it so far, though I don’t understand it and would suck if I played it. It’s aite.
This is coming from primarily a basketball fan. I can’t diversify any more than I am.
It reminds me of a question posed to me once: If you had to give up one of: sports, meat, sex, which one would you choose?
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Feb 9, 2010 1:23 AM PST up reply actions
I think it’s mostly about what sports we played/loved as a kid. I didn’t play much football, so I don’t worry about the free safety being in the right place on a cover two, because I don’t understand the game at an instinctual level. Basketball I’m better with, because I played quite a bit, and know where to watch away from the ball to see where the screens are being set, where the center is moving, etc. Baseball, however, I understand on a whole different level. I played ball every year (and many years in a winter league as well) from the time I was 5 until I was 22. That’s a lot of time I spent squatting behind the plate, observing where players should be, etc. I know (as most of us do, probably) exactly where the SS is going to be at any given time, cutoff rotations, etc. This is directly related to my personal experience playing/watching the games. Had I loved football, I’m sure I’d see a lot of the same patterns in a football game. Since I’ve not played (or watched) soccer in 25 years, I’ll never “get it” at that level. I can appreciate the athletes, and their amazing abilities, but I’ll never appreciate the game as a whole.
I’ll respectfully disagree. I was completely awful at baseball and loved soccer, but I would much rather watch the former.
Actually, the only sport I was good at / loved was crew / rowing and I find it possibly the most boring sport ever to observe. Seriously, watching paint dry is slightly more entertaining.
You have to have ties in soccer. If you’ve played a 90 minute game before, plus two 15-minute halves of overtime, you would know that you can’t play the sport forever. It’s absurd to expect players to do so.
I’m love soccer, and this argument is clearly subjective so there’s no point in starting one. Although I have to admit I would be intrigued by expanding the dimensions of the goal. Goals are fun.
The passion of the fans is where it trumps anything we have here in the US. Nothing even compares.
I love soccer and I hate ties. They are always anti-climactic. They reward a team for putting in the bare minimum of effort to score. There were times last year when a team such as ManU was playing for a tie on the road. I wanted to throw something at the TV. It’s ludicrous. Some system needs to be devised that does away with ties or makes them less desirable.
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
On an added note
I do understand the value of a tie in a two-leg match-up and I don’t mind them so much in that context, but in one-off league games they really bug me.
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I like a game in which it's possible for a weaker team to adopt a tactic that gives them a fighting chance
Soccer really is about not conceding, as much as it is about scoring.
I don’t think any soccer fan, anywhere in the world, would claim that every game is interesting. Hell, lots of them are boring – if you have no vested interest in the result.
Actually, I might disagree with myself, there – even in the worst, most defensive of games, there’s always something of interest going on – a contrast of formations, a battle of players, Sir Alex Ferguson slowly going redder.
Even if you don’t like ties (and perhaps that just comes down to differences in the way we see the world, which is fine, really), I do disagree that they are always anti-climactic; what about Liverpool clawing their way back to level in the Champions League a few years back?
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco
United won most of their PL games
Including on the road, so it would be pretty dumb of them to play for a tie, except for maybe 2 games a year (say, Chelsea and Liverpool away). Though, obviously, if a team is down by a goal in 87th minute or something, they’ll be pleased with a tie, but I don’t think it’s the same as playing for a tie. It’s different in the Champions League, but like you said, ties are different in that context.
There already is a system that makes ties less desirable – a tie is worth 1 point, while a win is worth 3. So winning 5 and losing 5 gives a team 15 points, while just tying 10 gives it only 10 points. I don’t know if they can do anything else without distorting the scoring too much.
I was promised lasagna.
Just to address some of the points in this post
For starters, any time you say something along the lines of ‘my sport is better than your sport’, you’re kinda on a hiding to nothing. To address the specifics you mention
1. You’re wrong about this.
2. This is correct, which is why there are ties. Draws are important, learn to accept them.
3. No-one has ever cheated at anything in baseball. Good point.
4. It’s a different game, with different rules, what’s the problem?
5. Wow, you couldn’t be more wrong about that.
6. You’re complaining because a game involves a different strategy to the one you are used to?
7. ok, I don’t even know what point you’re making on this one, but it doesn’t sound like I’d agree with it.
8. Here’s where I do agree – baseball is great. Surely, surely, though, you can see the point here – people have misconceptions of baseball, because they don’t have the same background and grounding in it that you do – wouldn’t you admit there’s an outside chance the same is true of you and soccer?
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco
+1
I said above this is all subjective so an argument is silly, but this sums up exactly what I thought.
Especially #4. And #7.
And adding to the point about ties…if tie games aren’t fun to you, then that would mean that all you enjoy about soccer is goals. If that’s true, then you clearly just don’t understand the game.
The biggest problem with (Mens’) World Cup Soccer is the fake injuries. It seems like the players think their ridiculous acting is fooling any of the fans watching them writhe around on the ground. They know we have instant replay and slow motion right? This is the part most Americans can’t get behind. Acting like a screaming little faker child throwing a temper tantrum is just cowardly behavior and bad sportsmanship to the ‘rub some dirt on it’ typical American sports fan. I would say that the MLS has much less of this and Womens’ international soccer isn’t rife with this type of behavior either.
No one here gets out alive.
Yeah, an American audience would never turn a blind on a player cheating if it improved their team
That’d never, never, never, never happen. In any sport. Definitely not in baseball. No way. And certainly not Giants fans, either.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco
I disagree with your analogy. A Giants’ game was never put on hold while we watched the trainers come out and spray the ‘magic water bottle’ on the shin of an obviously unhurt player. Steroids was insidious. It lay just under the surface of the game and owners, fans and players put up with it because we weren’t directly affected by it every time we watched. Also historically, sports has evolved as a non-lethal way for warriors to do battle and claim a victory over their opponent. Dishonoring yourself in front of millions of people for the chance at a free kick is pretty weak way to act on the battlefield.
No one here gets out alive.
I agree with you Bond16, but I do remember a certain Sacramento King falling to the floor writhing in pain every time Shaq came within 5 feet of him..
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Euro.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Feb 9, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
ok, it's sport. not a battlefield.
and really, really, cheating is cheating. you’re just fooling yourself if you think doing it in the shadows is in some way more ‘honorable’
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco
First of all, it’s not nearly as common as you’re making it out to be. It’s pretty rare for a trainer to come out to the field at all, and when it happens there’s almost always an actual injury involved.
Second of all, your un-American theory is simplistic at best.
It makes no sense for a football or hockey player to pretend someone pushed/tackled/whatever him, because that doesn’t mean the other guy did anything wrong. And it doesn’t make sense for a baseball player to pretend someone did that to him, because it never happens, so there’s no way to make it believable.
The only American sport in which it would make sense to pretend you were fouled is basketball. And it happens. All the time. Basketball players flopping is at least as common as soccer players pretending they were fouled. Probably more. And it’s just as ridiculous. Look at this. Not to mention this.
Why don’t they pretend they’re injured? Simple – there’s nothing to gain by it.
Soccer is special in the sense that it is the most violent of the non-violent sports. In the violent sports – hockey, football, rugby, etc. violence is allowed (to an extent, obviously). There’s no point in pretending a guy knocked the crap out of you, or injured you, because he’s allowed to do that. And in the other sports – baseball, basketball, any non-contact sport, fouls (if they exist) are very rarely dangerous in any way. But soccer has the “best” of both worlds: it’s similar in rules (regarding violence) to the non-violent sports, but similar in its injury rate to the violent ones. In other words, it’s the only sport in which players really injuring each other is both against the rules and relatively common – which makes it the only sport in which it’s worth to fake injuries. And that makes it the only sport in which players fake injuries. Pretty logical.
I was promised lasagna.
Why don’t they pretend they’re injured? Simple – there’s nothing to gain by it.
That was one of the points the OP made as to why baseball>soccer. Baseball rightly doesn’t award you anything for getting hurt. The object of the game is to score and prevent runs, not to get injured.
What does that even mean? I can say that about any sport. The object of soccer is to score and prevent goals, not to get injured. The object of basketball is to score and prevent points, not to throw yourself to the ground whenever someone touches you.
I was promised lasagna.
Soccer gives you penalty kicks, basketball gives you free throws, football gives you yards. Baseball does have HBPs, but they are FAR less common than the other three. If the object of the game is to score points, and getting injured or looking like you got injured helps that, then to some extent the object of the game involves getting hurt.
yet faking a hamstring explosion, then sprinting back on the field within 45 seconds, is far more common in soccer.
No it’s not. Players actually leaving the field to get treatment for a fake injury? That’s not even good for them, since it would just mean their team has to play with 10 players until they get back.
Soccer players show a lot more emotion than baseball players. They show joy when they score a goal, and they show anger when they concede, and they show pain when there is one. I don’t think it’s such a bad thing.
I was promised lasagna.
not entirely true
I’ve seen a bit of writhing after an HBP (or more appropriately an HBP be called after some writhing)
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Bengie Molina: "I don't understand why they didn't want to commit to another year, with my numbers and my experience and things like that." Brain Sabean: "He's certainly welcomed back with open arms".
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Feb 9, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
There is no reason to try and argue that baseball is somehow “tougher” than soccer. Please. 162 game seasons? Obviously mentally and physically tough. But in terms of actual gameplay, they don’t even compare.
by InTimmyWeTrust on Feb 12, 2010 6:08 PM PST up reply actions
Haha, I remember watching that game in the 2nd link. Silly Baron.
The 1st link. Dear god I honestly think I hate Robert Horry more than any player in sports. I mean at least Kobe and Jeter and Brady are talented. Horry is just some lucky pos that happened to hit a couple big shots (vs the kings he was standing in the wrong place, like Jeter vs the As) And his shoving Nash and flopping and shit is what got Amare suspended, giving the Spurs the win over a possibly superior Suns team. Noone wants to see a scrub on one team start shit with the other teams best player to get double suspensions, thats the lowest form of cheating, a case that actually offends me because it denies everyone a good game.
Brrr… but yeah if we could replace refs/umps with robots I’d be all for it.
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Feb 9, 2010 1:36 AM PST up reply actions
un-American is your word. I was explaining my view on why many Americans will not support that type of behavior in a professional sporting event. Also basketball is a flawed game at the pro level. Referees either will not or cannot enforce the rules equitably. Soccer does not rely as heavily on officiating. Which is part of its entertainment value because the game ebbs and flows so well. But it highlights the fake injuries since the game has to come to a complete stop every time it happens.
No one here gets out alive.
My big problem with soccer is that I fall asleep while watching it.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
by Alex_Lewis on Feb 8, 2010 10:00 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Doesn’t have to be a problem, watch it in bed!
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Feb 9, 2010 1:37 AM PST up reply actions
I’ll get to the point but first a bit of background:
I have experience with the country’s most popular gambling machines, slot machines. Casinos have done extensive testing to make certain that their machines are engaging (read: addictive) as possible. Apart from the themes, lights, sounds, general appearance, etc. BY FAR the most important aspect is that the machine pays off completely randomly. Casinos have, with the thought that regular positive reinforcement would increase playing, jiggered the machines to pay off at least once per given number of plays. Almost instantly, interest (and the casino’s take) cratered. There are numerous studies documenting this phenomenon. Even if the machine doesn’t hit for four hours the “just one more pull” line of thought pushes the player (often compulsively) to keep trying. This results in players endowing their favorite machines with personalities. “She’s cold/hot today.” “I can’t believe she paid out to that loser!” When the payoffs are predictable in any way, the interest evaporates. Now to the matter at hand.
Soccer is a slot machine. The payoffs (goals) are random as likely resulting from a careless turnover and breakaway as a series of crisp passes and cuts. The key is that you cannot predict when it is going to happen. Take that bathroom break and you just missed the only thing of consequence that is likely to happen for the entire 90 minutes. You cannot leave your chair. Stay for one more minute although your blatter is ready to burst.
Conversely, baseball is a predictive game. Yes, a solo homerun with one out in the top of the sixth appears for all the world to be random but it can be traced back to any number of causes. The batter guesses slider away and lasers one over the opposite field wall. The pitcher leaked a fastball over the heart of the plate. It may not be predicatable when it happens but certain behaviors and efforts (or the lack thereof) are predictive of particular outcomes. In soccer all the impressive and athletic ball handling in the world can march you down the length of the field but come to nothing when a defender gets a foot on the ball. An offense can hold possession all game and give up a crucial goal in the late minutes. It may come down to penalties. The point is it’s all bells and bright lights (think back to the slot machines) that have little to no significance until the random occurance of a goal. It may be fun to watch, it’s just not interesting to think about.
Interesting. Your newsletter, please.
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Feb 9, 2010 1:40 AM PST up reply actions
I used to think more along these lines but if goals are so random, why are the same 4 teams at the top of the EPL every season?
by microwave donut on Feb 9, 2010 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe not this year!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Feb 9, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
I think he is saying goals are randomly distributed throughout the game, not that teams score at random.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Feb 9, 2010 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah a dominant team is just as dominant, maybe more so, in soccer than in other sports.
Goals are randomly distributed, but they’re still usually the result of one team’s superior talent and ability to execute on mistakes and minimize their own mistakes. There is such a thing as momentum and increasing the odds in soccer as well, team A likely won’t score if the ball is in team B’s side of the field the whole time.
All the other sports have randomly distributed scoring right? Maybe in basketball some stars reserve their energy until the 4th but I’m not sure I believe that. If it weren’t randomly distributed, it would be as if the team wanted to score at precise times, like purposely waiting until the bottom of the 9th to win. That’s silly.
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Feb 9, 2010 7:31 PM PST up reply actions
There's a thought...
“…or perhaps if the two coaches played a very short game of Russian Roulette to decide the winner.”
If the Giants employed this method at the end of the 9th inning in a tie game, I cant say I’d be all that broken up.
Plotting the ultimate demise of Gore51 (never met him, I dunno he could be swell) so as to adopt Kyle Nicholson.
"I don’t know much about sabre-stats but there’s nothing better than white tea and poptarts first thing in the morning" - tk
by Whiteteaandpoptarts on Feb 9, 2010 7:44 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
YES
doan worry, poplo loe he team, he wan get berry good for body to play the beisbol
by Tim LinCyYoung on Feb 9, 2010 8:21 AM PST up reply actions
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