Idiotic ESPN article with Scout X
On why he would choose Cain over Lincecum if given a choice:
"Cain can really pitch, man. Lincecum, he's a freak. He weighs 160 or so pounds. He's a max-effort guy with a bad delivery. Don't get me wrong -- he punched out 261 guys last year and he might pitch forever. But it's just that Cain pitches with such ease. He won 14 games last year with a 2.89 ERA. Lincecum won 15 with a 2.48. See what I'm saying?"
almost 2 years ago
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But it’s just that Cain pitches with such ease. He won 14 games last year with a 2.89 ERA. Lincecum won 15 with a 2.48. See what I’m saying?
I don’t really see what he’s saying…
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
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OK, I assume he means that Cain won 14 games despite a higher ERA, while Lincecum only won 15. Whooaaaa! Lincecum sucks!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
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But everyone knows Cain doesn’t know how to win. That trumps his “logic” easily.
On the plus side, he loves the Panda, so he can’t be a total jackhole.
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by can of corn on Feb 28, 2010 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
Lincecum had to try really hard to win 15 games. Cain easily won 14. I think that’s his point.
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I’ve been rereading that statement to figure out the meaning, because surely, that scout can’t be implying what he seems to be implying. Surely.
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by Useful_Idiot on Feb 28, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
that's one of the stupidest things I've ever read
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by Giant among Angels on Feb 28, 2010 12:38 PM PST reply actions
CAIN SUCKS TRADE HIM SABES
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I dunno
If you had to ask me which one I would sign for a 8 year deal, I would go with Cain too.
Timmy’s the better pitcher, obviously, but I still don’t trust his long-term durability. Cain will probably be Cain for longer than Timmy is Timmy.
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Last year’s velocity drop isn’t helping Lincecum’s case, but I think right now I’d really like to keep BOTH of them around, please.
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by Smoke on the Water on Feb 28, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Do we realize the way Lincecum is pitching is twice as valuable as Cain? So if Cain pitched 8 more years at the level he’s pitched thus far in his career, all Lincecum would do is have to pitch 4 more healthy seasons to match that production. It’s not that I disagree with the durability thing – it’s that I don’t see the argument because there’s such a huge talent difference between the two. I just don’t see how anyone who understands just how big the talent difference between them is could choose Cain.
by Missing Barry on Feb 28, 2010 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
I think people see Cain lasting longer. Have Cain for 10 years rather than Lincecum for 5 years.
Although Lincecum is necessarily going to break down, people see his size and think that. Tim could be Greg Maddux or Pedro Martinez and last over 15 years.
"meh"
And like I said, I recognize the argument they’re making about longevity, but there’s just such a talent gap between them….I think the people that argue the durability point aren’t realizing how much better Lincecum is than Cain.
by Missing Barry on Feb 28, 2010 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
“And like I said, I really like Lincecum and Cain. Cain has four pitches he can command, and he’s big — 6-3, 230.”
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I love Matt, but I don’t know how true that is. He’s got four pitches, yes, but I don’t think he commands his breaking pitches particularly well.
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This. He gives up a decent number of HRs each year—-isn’t that usually correlated with an inconsistent command? (as opposed to the relationship between control and BBs).
Well, that’s also probably correlated with “Dude gives up a lot of fly balls”. But yes.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
A lot of it has to do with pitching behind in the count. He just gets hammered when he falls behind, which as you point out has to do with command …fastballs up in the zone. Which he did better at last year it seemed.
I think he’s going to be much better this year than last, all things being equal. Like the piles of oldness and injuredness that populate up the middle and 1b, being able to convert bip into outs.
Guys like molina, huff, sanchez, renteria, derosa and rowand sure as hell wouldn’t be my 1st, 2nd or 3rd choices of guys I would pick to have on the field behind me. Just hell no.
by E Ticket on Feb 28, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
I think he got away with a lot of bad curveballs last year when he would open the at-bat with one. I remember several times last year when he would open with one, and then the hitter would sit on it the next at-bat. I remember both Jack Cust and Adrian Gonzalez did this, possibly a few times, and ended up with home runs.
Lincecum needs more muscles.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
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I ONLY LISTEN TO SCOUTS WHEN I WANT OPINIONS ON PLAYERS!! THEY ARE NEVER WRONG IF THEY USE THEIR EYES!!!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
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by Seasick fish on Feb 28, 2010 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
Oh! Now I get it. When the sabermetric community uses good stats to make decent arguments, they are lame nerds. When scouts use crappy stats to make crappier arguments, then we listen.
I think Scout X is really a beer vendor. Who drinks on the job.
by E Ticket on Feb 28, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
When scouts do it, they're being ignorant
When we do it, we’re being ironic.
See what I’m saying?
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Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that one makes me angry
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Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but we're entitled to mock them for it.
t’s the internet’s founding principle.
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So, um
His delivery is “bad,” but he also says he “might pitch forever.” What exactly is bad about it, then?
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My favorite pitcher in the National League is Arizona’s Dan Haren. Love Dan Haren. He’s a pitcher. He’s got impeccable command. He’s got the stuff.
OK, so I know he’s going for the “stilted, don’t give a shit, casual” tone here, but that might be the most unfounded, idiotic thing I’ve ever read.
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He’s not a thrower.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
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nor a belly itcher.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
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My favorite part:
He’s so fat
LOLWUT
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Yea...
I’ll admit I’m more scout that saber…but even I went “Whaaaat?” when reading that.
I’ve got no problem with someone picking Cain over Lincecum long-term, but that’s bad reasoning.
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This
I think his argument would have been fine if he would have said " I think cain is going to continue to be this good and I think Timmy will break down." but he didn’t.
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by Speedforthewin on Feb 28, 2010 11:13 PM PST up reply actions
Is he related to Racer X?
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Mar 1, 2010 6:21 AM PST reply actions
Speed, is that you?
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by say hey nation on Mar 1, 2010 7:17 AM PST up reply actions
More like "X" marks the spot
where they buried this guys iq.
I’m really fed up to my eyeballs with these rodeo clowns who think that if a pitcher isn’t 6-2 to 6-6 and "throws compact without effort from the 2 to 3 slot that the guys is Dave Dravecky waiting to happen.
They say shit like this maybe, because:
They never saw Tom Seaver or Bob Gibson or Juan Marichal pitch, all three of whom would be considered to have “maximum effort and therefore, bad deliveries” by this dipshit.
Baseball scouts are sheep for the most part. Never do or say anything that is outside of the conventional wisdom lest one get a reputation for not being a a good soldier. Saying that Lincecum has bad mechanics simply shows that this guy has no fucking clue what good or bad mechanics are.
The scout’s boss probably thought Mark Prior, and Kerry Wood would last forever because they had nice effortless “book” deliveries.
The thing is that far too many guys teach kids a cookie cutter delivery which may or may not be part of their natural throwing motion. Thats when injuries happen.
by E Ticket on Mar 1, 2010 7:43 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And might I add
That it is because of shit like this, that sabremeticians hold the scouting profession in such low regard. Guys like this are the counterpoint to guys who rely exclusively on UZR to assess fielding and throwing.
by E Ticket on Mar 1, 2010 7:46 AM PST reply actions
cough GRM
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Lets not be hasty
He’s more like the guys who exclusively use fielding percentage and outfield assist totals.
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