College baseball replacing the minor leagues?

Another very interesting piece of writing from Garrett Broshuis. I always enjoy his viewpoint.

FTA:
"A recent Biz of Baseball article brought up all kinds issues. Stating that player development cost around $600 million annually (around 6% of most teams' budgets), the article claims that changes are needed to reduce costs.

I'm all in favor of trimming fat. Yes, too many players are signed each year in the draft. Many of these players are released within a year of signing. Out of the 40 plus players signed by the Giants in my draft class, only 10 remained just a few years later. Teams approach amateur players the way a newly made millionaire might approach real estate. They buy, buy, buy with no intention of even keeping properties. They get rid of it as quick as they buy it."

What changes would you suggest for player development ?

over 2 years ago nvsfg 18 comments 0 recs |

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yeeesh, I like the way baseball does it. I think the NFL and NBA should be more like MLB!!!

A long time ago, in an economy far far away… we had these things called “trade schools” because someone understood that not every person is college material, and that was okay. I always kinda looked on MiLB as baseball’s trade school.

Tweak it if you need to but don’t dump the whole thing.

by Merope on Feb 13, 2010 1:31 PM PST reply actions

The concept of teaching based on the individual, as opposed to offering education based on a program is sorely missing from our current educational curriculum. As a economy that produces very little “hard” goods, we could use some old fashioned trade schools.

I am sure that you could expand on that based on your profession.

Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !

by nvsfg on Feb 13, 2010 1:59 PM PST up reply actions

Yeah, around here that’s known as a “please don’t get her started.”

Most curriculum assumes that everyone comes to school with the same background knowledge and experiences. We had a scripted curriculum [for 5 year olds no less] full of east coast bias, that required us to teach fall, leaves changing color, cooler weather, frost, etc etc… during the first month of school. Of course it was Sacramento, school started in early August, and fall doesn’t hit here until mid to late October… but whatever… I refused to stand in front of the class and spout “Look out the window. Who sees a tree with red leaves?” or graph how many children in the class brought mittens, sweaters, and jackets to school… etc… etc… See… you got me started. bah!

by Merope on Feb 13, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions

Yesss.....

Someone else agrees with me re: trade schools (although I think I call them something else).

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Feb 13, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions

First, I would require IFA to complete HS or be 18. Second, draft IFA’s in the same draft as American amateur players which would cut the number of players drafted/signed to be developed.

My career path, have you seen it?

by say hey nation on Feb 13, 2010 1:39 PM PST reply actions

Both are interesting ideas that could be done without much change to the current system. It would also allow the latin baseball schools to continue with oversight from MLB. This would cut out some of the unscrupulous operators currently stealing from these families and kids.

Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !

by nvsfg on Feb 13, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions

Logistical nightmare – documentation in foreign countries is often a huge mess and you’d have to invest incredible costs into investigating potentially false claims/documents (which would be virtually everyone). Not saying it’s impossible or the wrong way to go, but there’s very compelling reasons why it hasn’t been done up to this point.

Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.

by tedfordfan on Feb 14, 2010 8:20 AM PST up reply actions

Logistical nightmare – documentation in foreign countries is often a huge mess and you’d have to invest incredible costs into investigating potentially false claims/documents

Don’t they already? Remember Sano?

My career path, have you seen it?

by say hey nation on Feb 15, 2010 6:18 AM PST up reply actions

I think they do for the bigger signings (i.e. 6-figure +), but not for the vast majority. It usually comes up when they apply for VISAs and get caught by the US State Department as having fake documents. Could be wrong, but my understanding is that MLB actually does relatively little investigative work.

Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.

by tedfordfan on Feb 16, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions

In terms of player development, I think it's hard to beat hockey.

I personally believe it strikes a good balance between turning universities into a de facto minor league system and allowing players who aren’t surefire stars to get an education if they want to.

Most player in hockey come out of the CHL (the Canadian Hockey League), a group of three junior hockey leagues located mainly in Canada. (They have a few teams in the US.) The teams basically provide for their players (i.e., lodging, food, etc.), but do not pay them salaries. The league itself is somewhat subsidized by the NHL, which also pays transfer fees for every player they get out of the CHL. Once they leave junior hockey, they are eligible for a college scholarship if they have not played more than a certain number of games of professional hockey.

Hockey players can also choose to play in a junior-A minor league like the USHL until they graduate high school and then do NCAA hockey if they are more interested in getting an education, etc. The NCAA does not consider the CHL to be amateur, and will not allow CHL players to play in the NCAA.

As a result, hockey players have two choices to go with, the CHL, where they can focus completely on hockey, but still go to college if they flame out completely, or NCAA hockey, where they can also focus on school.

In both these cases, a player is drafted at 18, but typically stays in the CHL or NCAA for a while. (International players work a lot differently, and probably aren’t as good of a comparison, since they typically come from country’s with well-established developmental systems and are more economically developed.)

If it were up to me I’d expand the draft to include the world, and make the entire system more based on draft and follow. I’m not sure why there is such an emphasis on buying out college commitments. Why don’t you just allow teams to hold on to the rights of a given player until they leave school? If they can’t sign a contract with the guy within X days of leaving school, then he re-enters the draft. This way the Strausburg’s of the world can leave school at 18 and get signed, while the guys drafted in the 47th round can stay in school until they feel comfortable leaving.

by tarlinian on Feb 13, 2010 2:06 PM PST reply actions

I like the current system, and I think the NBA and NFL would do well to adopt it. The biggest issue is the schedule; baseball’s got a 162 game season, over which time players get hurt and get tired. You need a minor league system so you can swap players out at little cost and replace injured or fatigued players with guys who are probably less talented, but better than worn-down starters. The NBA and NFL doesn’t have to deal with that, with their 82 and 16 games respectively. Obviously injury is a bigger factor in the NFL, but playing 16 games versus 162 is a huge difference.

Minor league systems also let teams know where they’re strong and where they can expect to become strong. A system that is full of pitching prospects can spend cash on hitters and rely on its farm teams to come up with pitching. But in the NFL/NBA, if you have a draft that’s stacked at a position, you could be screwed if you’re already set there. If 12 of the top 16 players are running backs, and you’ve already got a couple of damned good RBs, you either have to draft some kid you’re not going to play or you have to overdraft. If you’ve got a pitching rich system and the draft is full of pitchers, you can still draft a pitcher and let him develop in the minors for a couple years.

And then there’s the trade factor. Trading a currently productive player for a future producer is a common practice; one party saves money with a vision toward the future, while the other party gains a productive player. The closest thing to this in the NBA/NFL is trading draft picks, but again this is helpful based largely on the content of the next year’s draft, and you still have to sign the pick, and then he’ll be on the pro team the very next year; there’s no rebuilding possible, keeping guys in the minors to delay their expensive years while you gather prospects. Trading a minor leaguer in MLB has none of this risk.

And finally there’s the mediocre player who busts out in the minors and has a great career. Mike Piazza is an excellent example of a guy who would never have been drafted in the NBA/NFL but ended up having a potentially HOF career. Some guys just have untapped potential, and the minor leagues allow them to develop it, something that isn’t really seen in the NBA/NFL, because draft picks immediately start playing; you want guys who can produce NOW, not guys who can produce later with a little training. The opposite of that, of course, is the seemingly great player who turns out to be crap. NBA/NFL teams waste plenty of play time on high draft picks who just don’t put it together at the pro level, while MLB teams can let those guys either figure it out in the minors or get rid of them before they incur serious expense both by taking money and wasting playing time on a guy who isn’t producing.

I just see so many reasons to keep the minor league system where it is and so few to change it. The minors allow teams tons of versatility and options, and create a sense of excitement among the fanbase; we’ve watched Posey and Bumgarner and Lincecum and Cain grow up in our system, and how excited can you really get about a guy you drafted six months ago?

by quincy0191 on Feb 13, 2010 4:53 PM PST reply actions

I remember in Keith Hernandez’s first book, “If at First”, there was talk of changing the minor league system then. The theory was that you pull ALL minor league teams from their respective cities, then build a huge baseball complex in Florida. The leagues would be kept roughly intact, but there would be no travel, and dorms would substitute for the host familys now. You’d play all of your A games at one field, AA at another, etc. It would be an interesting experiment, but it would sure suck for those of us who like to go to minor league games.

by tyrannoman on Feb 14, 2010 8:22 AM PST reply actions

forgot to mention, the book chronicled the 1985 season. Idea’s been around for a bit, and no one seems to want to act on it.

by tyrannoman on Feb 14, 2010 8:23 AM PST up reply actions

Under the current system, at least, the minors league teams pull in enough revenue to diffuse the operating costs of the teams (not signing bonuses and such, but travel, field maintenance, etc.). Moving it all to one place would lower the overhead, but, since attendance would almost certainly drop off to nothing, I don’t think there’d be a net improvement.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Feb 14, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions

And I gotta imagine getting players ready for a job where they spend six months on and off the road is a good idea. Make sure they’re accustomed to playing in different parks and dealing with the rigors of constant travel.

by quincy0191 on Feb 14, 2010 3:06 PM PST up reply actions

certainly weather and regional differences too

Carolina League, Northwest League, Appy League…

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."

Bengie Molina: "I don't understand why they didn't want to commit to another year, with my numbers and my experience and things like that." Brain Sabean: "He's certainly welcomed back with open arms".

Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Feb 16, 2010 8:09 AM PST up reply actions

I agree with both these points. I just don’t see a better way to do it. Players get an actual taste of what life in the bigs is like, and the various levels allow players to prove themselves, gain confidence, and move on (or flame out completely). Better than NFL Europe, the Arena League, or the NBADL.

by tyrannoman on Feb 14, 2010 8:22 PM PST up reply actions