Community Prospect List 2010
by marcello on Feb 10, 2010 5:56 PM PST
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Print- 1. Buster Posey
2. Madison Bumgarner
3. Thomas Neal
4. Zack Wheeler
5. Roger Kieschnick
6. Tommy Joseph
Angel Villalona*
7. Brandon Crawford
8. Rafael Rodriguez
9. Dan Runzler
10. Nick Noonan
11. Conor Gillaspie
12. Ehire Adrianza
13. Francisco Peguero
T14. Hector Sanchez
T14. Jason Stoffel
16. Waldis Joaquin
17. Clayton Tanner
18. Darren Ford
19. Brett Pill
20. Jorge Bucardo
21. Henry Sosa
22. Eric Surkamp
23. Matt Graham
24. Jose Casilla
25. Ryan Cavan
26. Chris Dominguez
27. Edward Concepcion
28. Brock Bond
29. Kevin Pucetas
30. Ryan Rohlinger
31. Steve Edlefsen
32. Matt Downs
33. Brandon Belt
34. Wendell Fairley
35. Craig Clark
T36. Chris Gloor
T36. Mike McBryde
38. Steven Johnson
39. Aaron King
40. Jesus Guzman
Honorable mentions: Ryan Lollis, Eddy Martinez-Esteve, Johnny Monell, Edwin Quirarte, Ydwin Villegas
*Where Angel Villalona would be placed if there were no legal issues clouding his future.
Well, that was a lot of fun, just like last year. Thanks to everyone for contributing to this. We had some really great discussions and somewhere around 2 million comments on the Giants minor leaguers. Good stuff and I know I learned a lot. Some topic starters:
- Who is the most overrated?
- Who is the most underrated?
- What would your prospect list look like (go as far as you like 10, 20, 100)?
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Comments
Overrated – Runzler, Pill
Underrated – Graham, Concepcion, Johnson (if we actually keep him), King
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
The first thing that needs to be said
Thanks a whole lot to Marcello for staying so consistent with these and going all the way to 40. Good job.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Feb 10, 2010 6:08 PM PST reply actions 17 recs
No problem
It’s something I really enjoy talking about anyways, so it’s actually pretty fun. Plus, the format this year made it a lot less work to maintain.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
No comment here. Just props Marcello. Great job. MSM could take a page.
by E Ticket on Feb 11, 2010 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
This series has been a highlight of my Giants off season. Thank you very much for presiding over it.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at - 25%
by daveinexile on Feb 16, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
Why do you find Wheeler overrated?
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Feb 11, 2010 7:59 AM PST up reply actions
OMG OUR PROSPECTS SUCK SO MUCH OTHER TEAMS WONT PLAY AGAINST THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Feb 11, 2010 8:16 AM PST up reply actions
Excuse me if I’m skeptical of a guy whose biggest competition is a bunch of high schoolers. I think Wheeler’s still a top 10 prospect, and he’ll shoot up my draft board with even a decent first year in the minors, but xanthan’s sarcasm is spot on: I don’t like ranking players without professional experience so high. I like to balance scouting and stats and Wheeler’s only got scouting (albeit very very good reports).
Because it’s the best rebuttal to this argument I’ve seen here, I’m going to just paste a comment from NVSFG from the Prospect Rankings discusssion. Hope that’s ok with him/her. The links are a wealth of info, but the last sentence is really the ultimate argument against your position:
I run a girls youth softball organization. We deal with this issue constantly. I work closely with many travel and club level organizations. As with many Latin American baseball facilities, this has become an industry devoted to revenue. If one player from your organization hits MLB star status, it draws others and generates a huge payday.
From experience, I can tell you that scouts (college and pro in the US) are not really looking at high school games any longer. You may see them at a State Championship, but that’s about it. Most of their time is spent at showcase tournaments, and program organizations like the following:
http://www.baseballfactory.com/ourprograms/tryouts/
http://www.mycoreathletics.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=26&Itemid=27
http://www.metroshowcasebaseball.org/
Players are using training facilities, travel teams and the web to get the message out to colleges and pro scouts. In the Lake Tahoe area, there are four scouts that live in the area and scout Northern CA, Nevada, Washington, Oregon and Utah. They affiliate and fund training facilities that are focused on getting players into the system so that they can gather as much long term data as possible on a player and "direct" their progression through all levels of amatuer play. The higher the level of players they turn out, the more recognition that players get.
A friend of ours has a son playing High School baseball. When that season finishes, he plays a month on a team affiliated with his high school (illegal under most state amatuer athletic guidelines, but required by many Coaches), and then plays through October with a club affiliated team. Then trains indoors through the winter, all with the goal of getting exposure to scouts, pro and college.
By the time a player like Tyler Matzek reaches draft eligibilty, he likely has at least six years of statistical data, and many hours of video on file before scouts finally come out to see him live.
Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !
By nvsfg
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Darn, I meant to make that a block quote. Sorry nvsfg!
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I’m sure he has a lot of data, and I know there’s plenty of video. But what I’m concerned about is the level of competition; if college ball is basically AA (from what I’ve heard), then what’s high school baseball? A at the highest? Would you rank a pitcher with a great scouting report and good stats in A-ball as your #4 prospect in a system like this? Because there are a lot of pitchers who fit that description among 15-30.
For that matter, why is Wheeler #4 and Graham #23? I get that Graham’s prospect status fell about concerns about his arm and fastball, but as a lot of people are pointing out, he had first-round stuff. So the caveat is that he’s got to regain that stuff (which is easier than having to learn it for the first time), but after that, aren’t they very similar pitchers? And yet there is a large discrepancy in their rankings. To me, that is a serious problem; Wheeler could have a terrible year because we don’t know enough about him yet, and he would fall to outside the top 10, or he could have a great year and stay where he is. I think a prospect’s ranking should let him go either way, and Wheeler’s overrated if there’s little he can do to go up (besides post legendary stats).
if college ball is basically AA (from what I’ve heard)
There is no way, in my mind, this can even be remotely true!
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Feb 11, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
Well I would disagree that there are any pitchers in our 15-30 range who have great scouting reports. But great scouting reports and great stats in A ball is Bumgarner, so yeah I could see putting the profile of great reports and good stats around #4.
But I would also say that the showcase tournaments and summer program organizations are in their way better than a lot of college ball because they’re collecting the elite in one place to compete against each other. College ball (as well as virtually all minor league levels) still have a lot of filler in the lineups. They are essentially the Cape Cod League for younger players, and if you haven’t noticed, college players performances in the CCL are often rated more important with some clubs than their college seasons (part of that is due to the wooden bat issue, but part is the level of competition).
As for Graham, his problem is that his mechanics are all over the place — he can’t repeat his delivery, so that he might throw a fastball in the mid 90s, but then throw the next one in the mid-80s. It’s much like the Aaron King problem. And that is a huge discrepancy between Graham and Wheeler. Repeatable mechanics is the holy grail of virtually all athletics. And if Wheeler and Graham are falling at the two ends of the repeatability scale then yes, that’s a perfectly valid reason why one should be 4 and one 23.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
College ball is nowhere near AA. It takes one look at Bocock’s college stats to realize that.
I was promised lasagna.
LOL Juan Carlos Perez.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
(sorry marcello)
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
(.465/.530/1.102 for Western Oklahoma State)
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Overrated: yeah, Pill and Runzler. Maybe Peguero, too.
Underrated: Surkamp, Graham, Gloor. Maybe Belt.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
of course, when I look at the community list and mine, I guess I only have Runzler one spot lower
So whatever.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
and my personal top 20 list
1) Buster Posey C
2) Madison Bumgarner LHP
3) Thomas Neal OF
4) Zack Wheeler RHP
5) Roger Kieschnick OF
6) Tommy Joseph C/1B
7) Rafael Rodriguez OF
8) Brandon Crawford SS
9) Nick Noonan 2B
10) Dan Runzler LHP
11) Jason Stoffel RHP
12) Ehire Adrianza SS
13) Conor Gillaspie 3B
14) Hector Sanchez C
15) Jorge Bucardo RHP
16) Waldis Joaquin RHP
17) Eric Surkamp LHP
18) Clayton Tanner LHP
19) Darren Ford OF
20) Matt Graham RHP
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
just for shits and giggles, I went back and extended my list to 25
21) Jose Casilla RHP
22) Henry Sosa RHP
23) Ryan Cavan SS
24) Brandon Belt 1B
25) Chris Gloor LHP
I wouldn’t have had the first idea how to do that without these community projections. Going past 15 was awfully shaky. So yay for these threads and yay for marcello.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Wow. You and I agree on much of the top 20, but we’re not even close on those five. I have Casilla #31, Cavan #35, and Sosa, Belt, and Gloor not in my top 40. Funny thing, this prognosticating.
And we plead and we pray for a glimmer of day
As the night folds its wings and descends, exposing the loose ends.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
Casilla #31? Oh, Lyle, we need to talk!
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I remember you’re big on him. Tell me again why I should jump him up several notches?
And we plead and we pray for a glimmer of day
As the night folds its wings and descends, exposing the loose ends.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
Well the most predictive stats for young pitchers are K rates, BB rates, and GB rates. Last year, while slightly young for his league, Casilla put up 9.73 K/9, 2.83 BB/9 with a 73% GB rate (amazingly, his defense managed to turn exactly 0 double-plays behind him, or his ERA, WHIP etc should have been even better).
These aren’t SSS shenanigans either. He’s pretty much always been this way. Counting his two years in the DSL his career numbers are 8.4 K/9, 2.5 BB/9, 73% GB rate. He’s turning 21 this year so he’s still fairly young. I’d love to see them move him back to starting and get the kid some innings.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Just to give some context, because I don’t know how familiar everyone is with GB%:
- MLB average is around 44%.
- Anything above 50% is very good.
- Anything above 60% is elite.
- Anything below ~38% shows a very strong fly ball tendency.
Some examples:
- Matt Cain and Barry Zito are around 37%.
- Tim Lincecum and Brad Penny are around 46%.
- Roy Halladay and Felix Hernandez are around 56%.
- Brandon Webb and Derek Lowe are around 64%, and they’re the two best sinkerballers in the business.
- Jeremy Affeldt reached 65% in 2009 (former career high was 54.4%).
Ground ball rates are significantly higher in the low minors, though I don’t know by how much. I would guess that something like 8% lower than in the majors, maybe a bit more.
The three main knocks against Casilla, the way I see it – lack of interest from scouts (as far as I can tell);
only 20 years old and already a reliever (especially weird since he didn’t seem to show any control problems as a starter. – might suggest a serious lack of stuff); very little track record – his stats are the main reason to be excited about him, but he has yet to pitch in full season league, and pitched fewer than 30 innings in each of the last two years.
I was promised lasagna.
Seems about right to me.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I was gonna say, maybe the reason he’s not a starter is because he can’t handle the workload. Given he hasn’t pitched more than 30 innings each of the last two years that seems a more likely conclusion.
Wow and I thought I was down on Sosa
He’s 33 on my list
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
I just realized I left Francisco Peguero out of those five because I thought he was at the bottom end of my top 20. He needs to be in there SOMEWHERE, even if I’m pretty down on him.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Overrated: Bucardo, Pill, Sosa, Cavan, Pucetas
Underrated: Dominguez, King, Joe Martinez, Cameron Lamb
My top 20 (I went to 50 but I don’t want to bore you guys to death)
1-Buster Posey-C
2-Madison Bumgarner-LHP
3-Zach Wheeler-RHP
4-Thomas Neal-OF
5-Roger Kieschnick-OF
6-Tommy Joseph-C
7-Brandon Crawford-SS
8-Rafeal Rodriguez-OF
9-Dan Runzler-LHP
10-Francisco Peguero-OF
11-Ehire Adrianza-SS
12-Nick Noonan
13-Darren Ford-OF
14-Conor Gillaspie-3B
15-Hector Sanchez-C
16-Waldis Joaquin-RHP
17-Chris Dominguez-3B
18-Jason Stoffel-RHP
19-Clayton Tanner-LHP
20-Matt Graham-RHP
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
I don't think JOEY! was eligible, for the record
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
BA had him on their depth chart
I was just going by their list
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Yeah
That might have been an oversight. If he’s eligible, he probably should have ended up somewhere around Pucetas.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
FWIW he's 29 on my list
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
I guess I'll do my 21-30
21-Eric Surkamp-LHP
22-Jose Casilla-RHP
23-Johnny Monell-C
24-Aaron King-LHP
25-Steve Johnson-RHP
26-Mike McBryde-OF
27-Brock Bond-INF
28-Ed Concepcion-RHP
29-Joe Martinez-RHP
30-Jorge Bucardo-RHP
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Overrated: Runzler
Underrated: Graham, Steven Johnson if he’s still around
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Overrated: stoffel
underrated: casilla
by krukkuipandclint on Feb 10, 2010 10:09 PM PST reply actions
I’ll go with Crawford and Pill for overrated.
I think Sosa is the biggest underrate, and possibly Surkamp. Those are the two that looking back I really wish I’d voted higher.
As an aside, I checked yesterday just to see who we had on our top 30 that BA omitted and vice versa:
McCoven community:
Sanchez
Bucardo
Concepcion
Cavan
Pucetas
Rohlinger
BA list:
Johnson
Monell
McBryde
Clark
King
Fairley (actually 31 but Angel was sort of shoehorned in at 30 just so they could assess his situation)
What’s interesting about the McCoven additions is it shows the fairly even divide I think we have in this community between high upside lovers and certain major leaguers/good production lovers, albeit the three high upside kids are all rated higher, in Sanchez’ and Bucardo’s case a lot higher.
My Top 10 (which is pretty much always a river, I never step in it the same way twice):
Posey
Bumgarner
Neal
Wheeler
**Villalona
Joseph
Rafrod
Peguero
Adrianza
Kieschnick
Sosa
Crawford
Noonan
Ford
Runzler
Casilla
Gillaspie
Bucardo
Surkamp
Dominguez
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
er…Top 20 I guess
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Roger
I’m curious why you have Joseph above RaRod. Is it just that light-tower power? RaRod at least has some impressive bat-control/stat-nerd numbers, albeit at a very low level. Just wondering how you compare the two, prospect-wise.
And we plead and we pray for a glimmer of day
As the night folds its wings and descends, exposing the loose ends.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
That’s really a coin flip call and I could easily have reversed them. Light tower power plays a large role, yes. Plus the scouting report on Joseph is “one of the best pure hitters in the ’09 high school class”, so considering that I decided that the age difference (almost exactly 1 year) wasn’t enough to outweigh the relative rawness of Rafrod’s development vs. Joseph’s. And I don’t believe the “professional experience” of AZL competition is anything to be weighed above showcase tournaments etc of elite high school players as I’ve argued elsewhere.
As elsewhere, of course, we all know which orifice this stuff is being retrieved from.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Interesting that you have Sosa so high. I haven’t followed him that closely, but everything I’ve heard indicates that injuries have killed a lot of his prospect status. Do you feel the concerns are overblown?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I don’t think they’re overblown. But looking back, last year was really the first year he’d had with declined K ratios and the first in which he’d had arm injuries. It seems quite likely to me that he has an unending series of injuries in his future, BUT if not he does still have a plus plus pitch which could quite quickly put him back on the path of helping the major league team, much like Merkin’s development path.
I guess I’m just reacting to what I felt was an overreaction on my part in the first place — perhaps an overreaction to an overreaction.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Overrated: Pill, Runzler, Waldis
Underrated: Belt, McBryde
Top-10
1. Posey
2. Bumgarner
3. Wheeler
4. Neal
5. Tommy
6. Rodriguez
7. Roger K
8. Noonan
9. Ehire
10. Ford
#1 FanShot Champion
I was encouraged by Ford’s 2009 season, but putting him in the top 10 seems slightly crazy. Is your software malfunctioning or what!?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I put him in there as a conversation starter, but I love his non-hitting tools. LOVE THEM. If he can post a .300-ish wOBA in the majors, he’s going to be good. The bat is a question, no doubt.
#1 FanShot Champion
/puts Chris Gloor in his top ten because he has a high ceiling and he looks like a muppet and I LOVE MUPPETS!!!
I hope you’re right, though. He’s a fun player to watch.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
One thing that’s nice about Ford is that he’s not averse to taking a walk. He’s like the anti-Mike McBryde in that regard.
#1 FanShot Champion
But can he toe the rubber?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
also, I was just looking up Ford on b-r
His second minor league team was the West Virginia Power!
His first was the Helena Brewers. Actually, I didn’t even know there was minor league baseball in West Virginia or Montana. Oh, wait, there is a team in Billings. But Helena is pretty tiny. Only like 25,000 people there. Which isn’t tiny by Montana standards, but anyway.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Yeah, WV Power play in Charleston, WV — the capital. It’s about 1.5 hours away from my parents house. I’ve wanted to catch a game there for awhile. Maybe this year I will. Baseball has been in Charleston for awhile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_Power
I remember when I was a kid my dad had a Charleston Charlies t-shirt.
#1 FanShot Champion
It’s the Sally League, too. Cool. If you timed it right, you might be able to see Zack Wheeler et al.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
...and googling Zack Wheeler
…reminds me of how skinny he looks. He’s listed at 6’4", 170 – I’m 6’0" and about ten pounds heavier than that, and I’m not exactly chunky myself.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I like the high placement of Ford. I put him at 13 and worried I was placing him too low. I know he’s got a ton of red flags, but he also has a couple of 70 or 80 tools (on the famous 20-80 scouting scale), which gives him the advantage IMO over others (like McBryde). If giving up switch-hitting really has allowed him to turn on a switch offensively, then I can easily see him going VROOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM up the system.
Of course, he’ll have a crash stop in the form of Aaron Bleepin Rowand standing in his way at the top, but that’s a different discussion.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Side note: I like how it’s basically only me, you, and jcb9 on the site right now. Eastern Time Zone!
I’ve seen some scouting reports that say Ford is both the fastest player in the minors AND the best defensive CF in the minors. I haven’t seen anyone suggest Crawford’s the best defensive SS in the minors (in fact it’s questionable if he’s the best in the system), and that’s a significant difference.
And there’s a decided difference in their offensive approaches that I think tips in Ford’s favor as well.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Yeah, I really hope I get to see Ford in AA next year. He’s supposed to be just ridiculously fast.
#1 FanShot Champion
Also, I have a thing for elite defense in CF. I would just love to see him in CF after watching Rowand, who’s decidedly average in CF but painful to watch sometimes.
#1 FanShot Champion
I wonder what modern defensive stats would make of Darren Lewis. Anecdotally, he was pretty amazing in CF.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Total Zone!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lewisda01.shtml
He’s a career +30 in CF which is pretty good. Funny, he didn’t rate very well while with the Giants, but he got amazing scores in Boston.
#1 FanShot Champion
EAST COAST BIAS
cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"
by foothillsfan on Feb 16, 2010 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
I’m watching the No hitter on my i-Pod today, Lewis was at the game and in the booth, the showed a couple of Highlights. Man I forgot how smooth he was.
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Feb 11, 2010 8:28 AM PST up reply actions
He was really, really boring on commentary, though.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Kinda douchey
It was really funny. K&K repeatably asked him the “which city was the _ to play in” and keep saying Boston or something until they feed him the answer in the question “Is SF _?” he finally said yes, with hesitation.
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Feb 11, 2010 8:33 AM PST up reply actions
I thought they asked him which ballpark was the best. And as a Giant he played in Candlestick, so.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
They asked about the atmosphere and something else I thought. I’m at work so I didn’t pay attention.
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Feb 11, 2010 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
Emmanuel Burriss and Eugenio Velez have made me a bit wary of ridiculously fast Giants minor leaguers, I think.
I’ll definitely be interested in seeing what Ford does in 2010, though. I had him at #19, but with a nice AA season he could really move up the ladder.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Is Roger saying fastest in the system or fastest in MiLB?
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Feb 11, 2010 8:26 AM PST up reply actions
I believed in Burriss inasmuch as I thought he’d be a better choice than Bocock.
I have to admit that I bought into a little of the Velez hype at first. Didn’t last, though.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I actually liked Velez, but Burriss I just think has no chance of ever being a big league hitter. Half his hits on our balls that stop rolling before they reach an infielder.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
VERSATILITY
was he ever good at short, or did the giants just stick him there because he had VROOOMMM?
And there’s no way Burriss is a SS — doesn’t have the arm. Although I suppose you could say the same for Eckstein.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Up top, RafRod and Noonan are underrated, Kieschnick and Crawford (the whiff twins, separated at birth) are overrated.
Further down — after about #12, I’m inclined to think that hitters have generally been overrated and pitchers have generally been underrated. What is it, for instance, that makes Peguero a better prospect than Matt Graham? Both players apparently have outstanding tools, and neither has done a thing as a professional.
Similar pairs: Ford and Clark, HSanchez and Bucardo, Gillaspie and Sosa.
I’m not encouraged by Peguero’s performance either, but I don’t think you can compare a guy with a .304 / .341 / .409 line to someone who hasn’t played at all.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
The fact that he hasn’t played tells us nothing at all. We know that not long ago he had first-round stuff, but that he’s a million miles from putting it all together. Same as Peguero, who above rookie league has done nothing that is in any way promising. The only reason he’s a prospect at all is scouting judgment.
Same as Peguero, who above rookie league has done nothing that is in any way promising. The only reason he’s a prospect at all is scouting judgment.
I think a lot of people consider him a prospect because he’s a .350 hitter. On the other hand, others of us tend to dismiss him because he can’t draw walks and he’s shown no signs of hitting for power either.
Either way, it’s data. That data alone isn’t enough to draw a conclusion from, but it’s a piece of the puzzle, whether you regard it as a positive or a negative. With Graham, we don’t have any data at all. I can look at Peguero and be skeptical of him because of the issues mentioned above – I can’t do that with Graham.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
and I do think Peguero's performance has to have something to do with it
A year ago, scouts knew about his tools, but I don’t remember seeing him on any of these prospect lists. Then he hit .350, and he’s in the top 10 on some lists and Sabean’s claiming every other GM wants to talk trade about him. That has to be about minor league performance, no? Raw tools should be the same, and it’s not like he played in a higher profile league or anything – he played in the same two leagues in 2008 and 2009.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I think you’re right about that. Tools somehow look more promising when a guy is hitting .350 rather than .280, even when his “true” performance hasn’t changed at all.
But I don’t get the significance of “data.” What the data on Peguero tells us is that he’s not on the major-league track. If he’s going to be a player, he needs to drastically overhaul his approach, develop some power, etc. And maybe he can do that; most don’t, but you have to respect the physical ability.
But you can say virtually the same thing about Matt Graham. He can throw 95 (or once could), he has a great pitcher’s build, has shown flashes of a good breaking pitch, etc. If he gets a year under his belt in the low minors and has a season comparable to Peguero’s this year — gets a lot of strikeouts, walks a ton, gives up too many gopherballs, gets lucky on BABIP — what are we to make of this “data”? How will it change his ranking?
Lots of strike outs, too many walks, too many home runs…you’ve pretty much described the classic model Giants pitcher there, it seems.
If Graham had that season, I don’t think it would change my perception of him much in either direction, so I suppose I see your point. On the other hand, I bet he would move up on a lot of rankings with that type of year.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Peguero really seems to me a classic model of a tools guy who could “get it” somewhat late and then fly up the ladder. FIrst off he was really thrown in at the deep end being promoted straight from the DSL to the Sally (which is almost unprecendented, or at least I can’t think of another example), and then he suffered through a few injuries that kept him out of the lineup at the starts of both years.
Last year I believe his early season start in the Sally was interrupted by appendicitis, a non-repeating freakish injury that surely could have affected his swing. He’s a big guy with great bat speed, who I think needs to change his rather slappy swing, and he could find a power explosion.
We’ll see this year, but I really like him.
Also, it’s unfair to say he’s done nothing Evan — he was the MVP of the Cal League Championship Series! That’s certainly something.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
OK, that’s pretty convincing. Still — no plate discipline plus a 61% ground-ball rate — that’s a lot to fix.
Weirdness: At Augusta, he had 5 walks and 37 strikeouts. Promoted to San Jose for a few games, he had 5 walks and 1 strikeout.
He definitely needs someone to work with him on his swing — and sadly, the Giants just don’t seem to employ any such person. If only that could be part of Barry’s personal services contract…
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
That’s an interesting take on him – thanks.
It doesn’t really change my overall view on ranking him, though. With that type of player, I’d rather wait to see results start to show before anointing him a top 10 (or even top 15) player in a good system like ours.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
It’s interesting how much disagreement there is on the quality of our system. I was really shocked by Keith Law ranking us #20. BA has us at #4 and that’s really outside of the bell curve of rationale minds can disagree. That’s an incredibly dramatic disagreement in the scouting community.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I like Keith Law a lot, but I think he’s incredibly full of shit on this one. His rationale – that our top prospects are still good but we lost a lot of depth – seems completely wrong to me. I think our depth has really improved, if anything.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Whereas the top rankings have taken some hits (Alderson, Villalona, etc.)
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I agree. Unless he thinks Alderson, Villalona and Barmes where our top 3 prospect, I can’t see how losing those three while adding Wheeler and Joseph (best pure bat in the draft)
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Feb 11, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
…would drop us so far.
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Feb 11, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
Well, and on the question of depth, there seems to be general agreement that we had some nice picks in the latter (by which I mean after the fifth round). While nobody would mistake guys like Gus Benusa, Matt Graham, Ryan Cavan, Chris Gloor, and Ryan Lollis for elite prospects, they were all nice pickups for where we got them. Would’ve been even better if guys like Randolph Oduber and Diego Seastrunk had signed, but still…
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Thats the thing we picked up guys who are elite players now but damn well can be soon.
I still wish Walsh singed, I heard he was TEH AWESOME!
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Feb 11, 2010 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
And knowing our scouts tendency to find pitching where others aren’t looking, I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see Kaohi Downing turn himself into yet another of our live-armed relievers prospects.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Isn’t he supposed to be more of a soft-tosser? That’s my recollection.
He was actually more of an outfielder in college – only pitched part time – so, while he’s old for a draft pick, he’s still something of a novice pitcher. We’ll see.
I always root for 50th round picks, though. The ultimate underdogs, or something…
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
According to BA’s writeup on the draft class, “now a full-time pitcher, Downing has run his fastball up to 94” in Instructional League.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
OT but I’d just like to go on record here as saying I really really hope that either Christian Colon or Josh Sale somehow fall to us in the draft this year. I have set my White Whale gun to “On”.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
It’s a deal! You’re a much better bus driver than me anyway.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
A Christian Colon gets a holy water enema.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Feb 11, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
hmm
Well, I just found an article saying Downing’s fastball has been clocked at 90+. But I definitely saw him referred to as a soft-tosser in a write-up of all 50 of our draft picks. Of course, as I recall the guy who wrote that also said that Downing hadn’t been on his radar at all, so there you go.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Unfortunately anybody can do draft write ups now.
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Feb 11, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
He was primarily a RF in high school which would suggest the arm strength of a power pitcher. In fact, the story says the scout who signed him (who’s son was a teammate of Downings) mostly only saw him play the OF but envisioned him as a pitcher because of his plus arm.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
ah, here's the write-up I was thinking of - it was Andy Sellier
http://mlbbonusbaby.com/2009/07/18/draft-review-san-francisco-giants/
He actually doesn’t call him a soft-tosser – he calls him “smallish.”
Sellier also liked Gloor, so he has that going for him.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
that's a pretty cool link, by the way
He has something to say about everybody we drafted. Considering the size of the draft, that’s pretty impressive even though it’s not very in-depth stuff.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Seiler is awesome
Definitely a great resource for info on the draft.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
and with Gillaspie/Sosa
Sosa has lots of injury issues, Gillaspie doesn’t. That’s the only reason anyone would probably rank Gillaspie higher, I think.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
If that’s the rationale, it’s another point in Sosa’s favor. You can plausibly argue that Sosa hasn’t played well, it’s because he hasn’t been healthy. For Gillaspie, the Occam’s razor explanation is that he sucks.
Well, it’s the rationale because the injuries may have killed Sosa’s velocity and thus K rate in the long term, from what I understand. Plus the whole made of porcelain thing.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
But really it’s only been one poor year. The bigger worry for me with Sosa is that his knee injury led to some mechanical issues that caused the arm injuries — same thing that ended Dizzy Dean’s career. If he could regain his health, he’s the best arm in the upper minors (assuming Bumgarner’s in SF).
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Overrated: Neal
And for the record, Ehire sounds like the name of an employment website.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Feb 11, 2010 8:05 AM PST reply actions
.
But you’re wrong about Neal. I saw him hit a massive home run once, so he’s obviously real.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I've been giving insightful scouting reports for years!
Greg Bruso: maybe he can turn into a right handed Kirk Rueter!
He, Steve S posted in that thread! Cool.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I saw Todd Linden’s first ML home run. My eyes lied to me that day.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
You just hate Neal b/c hes white!
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Feb 11, 2010 8:17 AM PST up reply actions
BOO!
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
What Lars actually means
Overrated: America, Freedom
Underrated: Russell Martin, Shane Victorino, Scott Hairston
by rotorueter on Feb 11, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Overrated: Pill, Fairley, Joaquin
Underrated: Ford, Concepcion, Graham, J. Bucardo
Guys I like that didn’t make the list.
Craig Westcott – 23 y/o but director of player development Fred Stanley has indicated that he may make the jump to SJ. Tons of Ks off of above average fastball velocity and swing and miss breaking stuff. Won the college player of the year award for the state of Mississippi even though he played at tiny Belhaven college. I find this quite impressive as all of the previous winners had played at Ole Miss or MSU. He also won the award in his first year as a full time pitcher. He has low mileage on his arm and may add a tick or two to his 93 mph fastball.
Jason Walls – Big time power arm. He’s supposed to be mid 90s with a wicked slider He has control problems but perhaps he’ll turn out to be a RH Runzler.
Jose Valdez – Giant, intimidating dude. He makes Dominguez look like an average Joe. Just recovering from TJ, so he didn’t pitch much. Had a big time power arm prior to the injury. Not sure if the velocity has returned but he had pretty good K numbers in S-K. Control is an issue but he’s still only 21.
Evan Crawford – His speed and athleticism is top notch. I didn’t really expect him to hit, but he performed pretty well at the plate. In looking back at his college stats, he always seemed to be a competent hitter. Needs to be a bit more patient but he seems to be a better hitter than I thought. Seems like we’re developing some quality depth at CF throughout the organization.
Others to follow: B.J Salsbury, Cam Lamb, Biery, Ari Ronick, Verdugo, Izturis, Ariel Hernandez, Kendry Flores, Carlos Willoughby, Leonardo Ochoa, Leonardo Fuentes, Marvin Barrios.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Feb 11, 2010 10:02 AM PST reply actions
My top 30 (32*)
1. Buster Posey
2. Madison Bumgarner
3. Zack Wheeler
4. Thomas Neal
5. Tommy Joseph
6. Brandon Crawford
7. Rafael Rodriguez
8. Roger Kieschnick
Angel Villalona*
9. Nick Noonan
10. Hector Sanchez
Steve Johnson*
11. Matt Graham
12. Ehire Adrianza
13. Francisco Peguero
14. Dan Runzler
15. Jason Stoffel
16. Darren Ford
17. Jose Casilla
18. Edward Concepcion
19. Kevin Pucetas
20. Jorge Bucardo
21. Conor Gillaspie
22. Clayton Tanner
23. Eric Surkamp
24. Craig Clark
25. Aaron King
26. Ryan Cavan
27. Waldis Joaquin
28. Henry Sosa
29. Ryan Rohlinger
30. Chris Gloor
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Overrated: Kieschnick, Crawford
Underrated: Rodriguez, Ford
I like the toolsy guys who have shown they can take a walk.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Overrated: (wow) Gillaspie, Adrianza, Pill, Tanner, Bucardo, Cavan, Belt , Gloor, Guzman, McBryde, and Fairley.
Underrated: Peguero, Hector Sanchez, Dominguez, and Edlefsen. Maybe Neal (I’m powerfully tempted to rate him #2, above MadBum; Bummy really needs to getting cracking on those off-speed pitches).
Submitted for your entertainment/laughter:
1. Posey
2. Neal
3. Bumgarner
4. Wheeler
5. RaRod
6. B. Crawford
7. Kieschnick
8. Peguero
9. Noonan
10. H. Sanchez
11. Runzler
12. Stoffel
13. Joseph
14. Graham
15. Concepcion
16. Ford
17. Joaquin
18. Tanner
19. Adrianza
20. Dominguez
21. Rohlinger
22. Downs
23. Gillaspie
24. Surkamp
25. Edlefsen
26. Oseguera
27. Nicholson
28. Bond
29. Biery
30. Clark
31. Pucetas
32. Casilla
33. Paterson
34. Villegas
35. Cavan
36. King
37. Windster
38. Mazzola
39. Monell
40. E. Crawford
And we plead and we pray for a glimmer of day
As the night folds its wings and descends, exposing the loose ends.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
Dominguez 4 spots higher than Gillaspie… I’m trying to imagine a rationalle for this, but I’m coming up blank…
Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.
I think Gillapsie, at best, becomes Dave Magadan. At best. Mediocre defender, no power, might hit .295 in the majors.
At best, Dominguez is Pete Incaviglia, or Dave Kingman, or Rob Deer – but can actually play thirdbase!
I wouldn’t rely on either of them making the show (not counting Conor’s stunt), but without power or defense Gillaspie just doesn’t impress me. To be fair, Dominguez has a long way to go with pitch recognition, it would seem, and that doesn’t bode well for him. But, sheesh – light tower power and a real thirdbaseman!
"And we plead and we pray for a glimmer of day,
As the night folds its wings and descends, exposing the loose ends."
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
Well, I don’t think any of these guys were actually better hitters than Magadan.
I was promised lasagna.
if you go by OPS+
Deer: 124
Kingman: 115
Magadan: 112
Incaviglia: 104
Of course, you have the whole issue of OPS undervaluing OBP, and Magadan was a high OBP, low SLG guy.
I thought the scuttlebutt on Dominguez was that he wouldn’t stick at third, though.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
huh, wait.
Where the hell did I get 124 for Deer!? Now I’m looking again, and he was 109.
Oh, huh – his OPS+ was 124 in his last season. I was looking at the wrong line.
Deer did have some nice years, though – 1986-1988, and then a pretty great year in 1992. Some of the years in between, he BABIPs well below his career average, so he may have been unlucky.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Were his good years better than Magadan’s good years, though? Also, I don’t know if he’s a good comparison to Dominguez, considering Deer was pretty good at drawing walks.
I was promised lasagna.
five best OPS+ years
Magadan: 141, 127, 124, 123, 116 (twice)
Deer: 144, 120, 113 (twice), 108
Slight edge to Magadan, I guess.
TZ indicates Deer was an okay left fielder and not as good a right fielder, and that Magadan was a solid first baseman but below average third baseman.
This is, of course, a pretty obscure comparison, isn’t it? Two very different players who retired long ago and who may or may not end up being somewhat similar to a couple of marginal prospects in our system.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Well, clearly...
…I was thinking only of HR power, with no regard to (or particular interest in) OBP/OPS/OPS+ – both in regard to the antiquated list of sluggers and in regard to Dave Magadan (a player I found utterly mediocre as a starter, decent as a reserve).
"And we plead and we pray for a glimmer of day,
As the night folds its wings and descends, exposing the loose ends."
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
I actually do think Magadan is a decent comp for Gillaspie. High OBP, startling lack of power, not-so-great defense at 3B. It works.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Yeah, Magadan was the guy that came to my mind first, when trying to imagine his upside. As a backup/PH, that would be fine. I just don’t see Gillaspie going for that role any time soon.
"And we plead and we pray for a glimmer of day,
As the night folds its wings and descends, exposing the loose ends."
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
!
If you were replying to me, Grant, here’s my response: King does nothing for me, yet I hold him in slightly higher regard than, say, Ari Ronick. Damning with faint praise, I know.
As for Surkamp, I find him very hard to place on the list. He could be 10-15. He might belong after #35. I sort of split the difference with him. I really hope he has a tremendous year this year, though.
Paul Oseguera is my super-secret stealth prospect for 2010. Remember, you read it here first.
And we plead and we pray for a glimmer of day
As the night folds its wings and descends, exposing the loose ends.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.
Dr B has Oseguera also, around 25 or so.
Oseguera was real promising a couple yrs ago, then got an injury
cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"
by foothillsfan on Feb 16, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions
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