Joe Eskenazi: Shut up.
by Bitter Fan on Feb 10, 2010 7:28 AM PST
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PrintI hate people whining about ticket prices. This is the first whine I've heard about the dynamic pricing system, and I'm not with Joe Eskenazi.
As noted before, inducing people to spend quickly and pinging those who do not is good business sense.
On the other hand, it just seems downright wrong that you should be made to pay more for a baseball game because it's a "great day for baseball." It seems exploitative that you should be made to cough up extra dollars when Tim Lincecum is on the mound; will we be given a deep discount when Zito is pitching or Pablo Sandoval takes a day off? Further following the airline model, will we be charged extra for using the restroom? Do clean seats cost more? Do I have to pay extra to stay out of the all-felon, all-drunk, all-jerks talking loudly about work on their iPhone section?
I can understand why the same seats that cost $5 vs. Pittsburgh will run you five times that when Boston comes to town (or more, if it's a really nice day and Lincecum ends up taking on Josh Beckett). But the notion of "premium game pricing" sends fans an unmistakable message. It means "premium" teams visit AT&T Park, but the home squad is not one of them.
Finally, the notion of "dynamic" pricing feels so wrong because it completely upsets the "Hey! Let's go out to a game!"-notion that makes baseball unique. Among professional sports, only baseball is still priced at a level that makes spontaneity possible. No, you can't ditch the car in Little Hollywood, buy a sandwich at Piccolo Pete's, walk a mile, and score bleacher tickets for $3.75 anymore. That rose-hued nostalgia is fading fast. But toting a sandwich into AT&T Park and buying view reserve or bleacher tickets really is affordable for the everyman.
Here's the problem with his idea: This is fantastic for real baseball fans, especially those on a budget. It's conceivable that you could see every playoff team in the NL, plus the A's for under $40. It's $51 for bleacher seats to four playoff teams + the A's. You can sit in club seats for $25. Those tickets.com fees suck, but nothing stopping you from going to the ballpark on a Saturday and getting your tix.
The broader idea is that the Giants want your money instead of scalpers getting it, and who doesn't like that? Sure, we can bitch all we want about Bow Tie and the gang, but at least those guys might spend your extra money. Scalpers are definitely not signing Tim Lincecum to a long-term deal.
Hell, even complaining that you can't go to the park whenever you want anymore is largely BS. Those getaway day games versus the Reds and Pirates aren't going to be $30 no matter how good the Giants play. So you can't decide to go to the park when the Red Sox come to town. Big deal, anybody who was there in 2004 knows you couldn't do it then either. Big series with the Mets/Dodgers/Red Sox/Cubs always sold out before dynamic pricing - so you had to buy in advance there too. It's what happens when you live in a city with a popular team and a popular ballpark, plus plenty of transplants who support other teams.
And the nostalgia for Candlestick? I miss Piccolo Pete's, I don't miss the continual discussions about the team moving or the 9,000 people on a Wednesday night with a good team on the field because nobody wanted to go to that shithole.
Dynamic pricing rocks for people who plan ahead. It sucks if you're a Dodgers or Red Sox fan. Net positive, IMO.
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We got great deals on tix last season by peeping the dynamic pricing. I’ll take a Tuesday night game against the Pirates for $8 any time.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 10, 2010 8:23 AM PST reply actions
Maybe I'm missing something
How does dynamic pricing stop scalping? If anything it’s an incentive for scalpers to buy more seats early and often so that they can get higher prices as the games get closer, and charge even more for the Red Nex/Cubs/Mets games. If they just eat up all the early discounted seats that seems to be a windfall for them and bad for casual fans (who are probably not buying seats now). And the prices the scalpers get will be at least as high as the dynamic price the Giants will charge (making the scalper’s price look less outrageous).
I am not crazy about the dynamic pricing just because of the uncertainty/opacity. When will that game get more expensive? How many seats have to be sold before prices go up? Is there a cap, or will they charge $200 for the last bleacher seat to a Sunday Dodger game? It’s good for those of us that can pop out after work on a lark since midweek junk games should be cheap, but not so good for people with families who can basically only travel here for weekend day games (although Fox’ stupid TV deal already screwed them).
I don’t get the anti-scalper vibe either. I’m sure plenty of them ate seats in the past few years, particularly the year Bonds had knee surgery. There don’t seem to be as many tracksuits on Third St. as there were back then, so some seem to have been weeded out of the “industry”. I always enjoy seeing some fool standing in the fog trying to unload seats for a midweek night game in June. Between craigslist, stubhub, and random friends with tickets they can’t use, I’ve never had any reason to deal with any of them and could basically care less what they do.
I don’t have a serious gripe about their ticketing, especially the last couple of years with things like the Timmy strikeout promotions. I thought that was a great way to fill the park for his next start and generate excitement for the game. I’ve been to quite a few of the promotion/heritage nights, and they’ve been cool (and often good values- several of the shirts were worth the discounted OF seat price). Little League Day(s) are just awesome.
Sure, we can bitch all we want about Bow Tie and the gang, but at least those guys might spend your extra money. Scalpers are definitely not signing Tim Lincecum to a long-term deal.
I’d certainly prefer that the $198,148.14 per game paid to Zito and Rowand this year be $4.95 less on every home game ticket, but I seem to be in the minority and in any event that train has left the station. As for Tim, I can also definitely say there won’t be a refund if it goes to hearing and the arbitrator gives him $8M instead of $13M.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Bengie Molina: "I don't understand why they didn't want to commit to another year, with my numbers and my experience and things like that." Brain Sabean: "He's certainly welcomed back with open arms".
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
Between craigslist, stubhub, and random friends with tickets they can’t use, I’ve never had any reason to deal with any of them and could basically care less what they do.
When people talk about scalpers, I think they’re talking about the secondary market for tickets in general, so it includes stubhub, craigslist, etc. The point is when baseball teams keep ticket prices artificially below demand, fans don’t benefit that much, because third parties step in and buy the tickets, then price them at their demand level anyways, so most of the economic benefit from lower ticket prices ends up going to third parties anyways who resell on the secondary market – meanwhile, it hurts the Giants, and most fans aren’t better off because they’re still paying those higher prices because they have to go to the secondary market for tickets because the primary market is sold out. So that’s the problem I (and most others, I believe) have with it.
So yeah, it makes sense to try to best fit prices to real demand.
by Missing Barry on Feb 10, 2010 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
this still doesn't make sense
when baseball teams keep ticket prices artificially below demand, fans don’t benefit that much, because third parties step in and buy the tickets, then price them at their demand level
Why won’t the scalpers buy the $8 seats now and make even more money than they would have before dynamic pricing? Their ultimate sale price will still be whatever the market will bear, with the Giants making the market for them by raising prices as the season goes on.
In any case, many scalpers are buying season tickets so the big operators will really enjoy free riding on the Giants’ pricing. Assuming, of course, that their top level prices are somehow reality-based.
I like cheap junk tickets so I don’t mind the scheme, but I’m pretty sure scalpers are going to get their money either way. If anything their losses are mitigated because the Giants are lowering their inventory cost.
Also, baseball teams keep ticket prices artificially below demand? The Oakland Athletics have a lot of tarp they’d like to sell you.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Bengie Molina: "I don't understand why they didn't want to commit to another year, with my numbers and my experience and things like that." Brain Sabean: "He's certainly welcomed back with open arms".
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Feb 10, 2010 9:00 AM PST up reply actions
because
there aren’t a whole lot of people who want to pay $40 to see Todd Wellemeyer in a showdown with the Pirates on a Tuesday afternoon.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
also
not all baseball teams, but certainly teams who sell out on a regular basis price their tickets below demand.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Why won’t the scalpers buy the $8 seats now
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the pricing already dynamic, even before the season starts? If the seats are in high demand, they won’t be cheap ever.
yes
isn’t the pricing already dynamic, even before the season starts?
The prices now are lower than they will be when game time approaches and more seats have been sold. Or as they say on the website:
MARKET PRICING applies to all tickets. Buy early and save. Prices subject to market demand.
If the seats are in high demand, they won’t be cheap ever.
They’re cheaper than they will be if bought later in the season. Scalpers will undoubtedly buy early, and assuming they get in on the ground floor will make more than they would have if the pricing was flat from the get-go (i.e. they might not risk a $15 view level midweek ticket now, but if they can buy the same seat for $8 they don’t have as much to lose).
This helps scalpers more than it hurts them.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Bengie Molina: "I don't understand why they didn't want to commit to another year, with my numbers and my experience and things like that." Brain Sabean: "He's certainly welcomed back with open arms".
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Feb 10, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, baseball teams keep ticket prices artificially below demand. This is true for all entertainment venues, and it’s done for public relations. It’s most obvious with concerts; say that there are 1,000 tickets to see Tool live in San Jose priced at $50 each. Since there are more than 1,000 Tool fans in the Bay Area, some of the 1,000 people who bought the tickets initially resell them, and eventually the average price of a ticket to the concert is $200. Now, Tool is still only making 50×1000=$50,000 for the concert, but they COULD be making $200×1000=$200,000 for the concert if they sold the tickets at market price. But if they did that, people would scream about how tickets are too expensive and they’re going to boycott the band and there’d be a lot of negative publicity. This happened in Australia with a Barbara Streisand concert where the market value was somewhere around $10,000 per ticket, but there’s no way she could sell tickets at that price because of the fallout. The scale isn’t as large for baseball games, but it definitely happens; the market price of tickets is usually higher than their sale price, particularly in sold-out games because there’s excess demand and a fixed supply.
So the team gets more of that money if they more closely approximate the market price, which is better for us; we’re paying the same, but more of our money goes toward improving the team.
yes, for sell-outs
and for the A’s, fireworks games. Otherwise? Empty midweek seats certainly aren’t overpriced. If anything they finally realized they have a chance to make concession money if they don’t try to sell VR tickets for $20.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Bengie Molina: "I don't understand why they didn't want to commit to another year, with my numbers and my experience and things like that." Brain Sabean: "He's certainly welcomed back with open arms".
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Feb 10, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
Well...
In your example, I’m not sure that it’s true that the tickets could be sold for $200. Here’s the issue: say the tickets are $50 and the concert is sold out. Now the market price for a ticket is $200. If people were perfectly rational actors, anyone who now has a ticket but would not have paid $200 for it should sell. But people do not behave like that; they keep their tickets. As a consequence, there are very few tickets available for purchase, which keeps the “market price” high.
I’m surprised venues don’t experiment more with some kind of auction system to maximize their revenue. Say they accepted bids up until the day before the show. Then, say there are 1000 seats; the top 1000 bids get tickets, with each bidder paying what he bid. In this way the venue would extract all the consumer surplus from the buyers.
Yes, people don’t always act rationally, so the idealized model doesn’t perfectly predict behavior. But for things like this, I would imagine people who are interested in trying to sell the tickets would see what they could get and go if they didn’t get a high enough price, and people who wouldn’t sell for anything other than some exorbitant sum wouldn’t look at the market. But the point is that venues frequently sell tickets below the market price because of the public relations fallout that would ensue if they gauged the market and offered them at their true value. I think this is why they can’t have auctions either, because it would just be a better approximation of market value, but plenty of people who couldn’t afford the price but were willing to stand in line for two days couldn’t go, and that alienates lower-income fans especially when the media runs the headline “Giants Tickets Only for the Super Rich”.
I love the dynamic pricing, and I think it’s a really good idea. I like that I can go to a decent amount of games on the cheap, and then maybe splurge on one or two big ones when i want to see a really good game (or enjoy the turf war in the bleachers during dodger games). It really allows me to set up a game schedule for myself that’s both in my budget and to my liking.
Petey and Fresh always dunking on Spartans,
Biscuits in baskets from Heatley and Thornton,
Bam-Bam and Gore on the way to some rings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
This
plus it really adds an incentive to buying season tickets since they aren’t subject to dynamic pricing. How much did I spend for my Giants/Dodgers tickets this year? $8 a game, same price as a game against the Pirates on a Tuesday night.
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
Best thread ever
If the Giants aren’t going to make money off of dynamic prices, someone else (scalpers) will. That makes no sense for the Giants or their fans.
ps- My first year of season tickets! I won’t have to deal with dynamic pricing and/or scalpers!
It seems that this dynamic pricing effort is tailored towards having more season tickets sold. Fans will have extra incentive to have the same lower price for every game. If a ticket reseller has $1000 to purchase games he can either buy multiple lower-level seats that have a lower markup, fewer premium seats with a higher markup but “closer” to market value with the dynamic pricing (thus creating higher supply for fans not looking to the secondary market), or mitigate profit lost with season tickets. A great seat in the first row of lower box (not premium LB) would be the same dyanamic price as a back row seat, but a far higher market price and the resellers know that.
The Giants want ticket sells and this gives incentive to all parties to buy early whether they be season ticker holders, resellers or single game buyers. The Giants want stability and this provides a disadvantage to the walk-up fan that is not as predictable, however as game time approaches one would expect high levels of reduction as a ticket not sold is lost revenue no matter how cheap. I think one could still find cheap seats as a walk up fan for games that wouldn’t be sellouts anyway.
Not just season tix
but all sorts of tickets in advance.
Like I said, if you buy right now you can kill. There’s a ton of games versus good teams available. Even the Dodgers and A’s have bargains if you buy right now.
This whole anti-dynamic pricing thing is dumb
But this is worse:
But the notion of “premium game pricing” sends fans an unmistakable message. It means “premium” teams visit AT&T Park, but the home squad is not one of them.
Um. Why? Premium game pricing means that premium teams visit AT&T park that don’t visit often or present higher entertainment value, so demand is higher for those games. In what universe does the Red Sox coming to AT&T for the first time in forever mean the Giants suck? Seems like those things aren’t exactly related.
right
what it means is that the Pirates and Reds are unpopular and the Giants don’t want to eat the tickets. I don’t see how it’s any kind of commentary on the Giants squad or marketing department surrender, any more than the Yankee’s unsold overpriced seats last year meant anything other than that the seats were overpriced.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Bengie Molina: "I don't understand why they didn't want to commit to another year, with my numbers and my experience and things like that." Brain Sabean: "He's certainly welcomed back with open arms".
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Feb 10, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
The one really good thing about this.
Red Sox fans getting charged 10 times the regular ticket prices if they want to go to a game. That thought really sends me to my happy place.
Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info
Baseball seating is downright effing greedy, make no mistake about it.
none. The wealthy, me included get to go to any games we want, and the poor or lower middle class can only afford an occasional game, often on a give-away. For the national past time that is just wrong.
Exactly.
Here’s the sick part.
In 1958 and 1959, at Seals stadium, at the end of the game, the Giants would open up the gate to kids who wanted to pick up seat cushions and stack them. In return, they were given bleacher seats (a 99 cent value) for a future game. So in the summertime I watched real live Willie Mays and later Willie McCovey and Juan Marichal for free. Whenever. It only cost me 15 cents muni fare each way, and since I had a student car ticket (10 rides for 50 cents) It only cost me a dime round trip from the ingleside out to 16th and Bryant.
by E Ticket on Feb 10, 2010 9:42 PM PST up reply actions
awesome
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 10, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
Of course, min wage then was a buck..
…so if you worked an hour grabbing cushions and stacking them, you damn well were entitled to a free ticket. For some of the cheaper Giants tix, cleaning the park for half an hour would get you the same thing..
The real shock here is how much cheaper in real terms Muni was compared to now.
Baseball tickets are more expensive than in the 1960s or even the early 1990s in real terms but I think we need some perspective here. The hoi polloi never sat in the box seats. People always budgeted for games. The Giants draw at least as well, probably better, in terms of their attendance vs. the population of San Francisco (the same people now as compared to 1960), the Bay Area (about twice as many people) and the lack of competition in 1960 vs. now (i.e. A’s).
ignoring market forces when pricing your product is just dumb.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Feb 11, 2010 12:22 PM PST reply actions
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