LOS ANGELES (AP) - A spokesman for Jamie McCourt says a judge has ruled that a postnuptial marital agreement that gives sole ownership of the Los Angeles Dodgers to Frank McCourt is not valid.
Mark Fabiani told The Associated Press the decision means the Dodgers could be shared under California's community property law.
Fabiani says he has seen the ruling that was shared with
attorneys Tuesday but has yet to review the entire document.
Superior Court Judge Scott Gordon's decision came after an 11-day trial that focused on whether the postnuptual pact signed between Jamie and Frank McCourt in 2004 should decide who owns the team.
over 1 year ago
Lyle
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So what does this mean now? I’ve been following the case, but I have little idea what the implications of the rulings are for the baseball side of operations.
Well...
Imagine John Boehner and Nancy Pelosi are the co-owners of the Giants.
"I can't very well tell my batters, 'Dont hit it to him.' Wherever they hit it, he's there anyway."
- NY Mets manager Gil Hodges on Willie Mays
And that would be an improvement!
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Dec 7, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
That’s a no.
There's a First for Everything:
Edgar Renteria, The First World Series MVP in Giants History.
? You really think that Frank and Jaime will get more done than a John and Nancy?
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Dec 7, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
So, L.A. might fail to agree on a budget and the team might have to temporarily shutdown.
by non sequitur on Dec 7, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
But....
I know this is great for the schadenfreude/chaos factor, but is this actually a good thing for us Giants fans? What this ruling will most likely do is force Frank McCourt (and his ex-wife) to sell the Fodgers in the near future, because there’s no way that Frank will run the team with the ex-wife being a 50% co-owner and he doesn’t have the liquid cash to buy her out (he’s in debt up to his ears).
No, iMO it would have been much better if Frank had won this ruling and remained in control of the teamwith his finances crippled. Most likely a new owner will have deeper pockets than McCourt and be a much bigger spender – with a lot less deferred contracts.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
But
This far from settles things and given that both Frank and Jamie are giant douches this could mean more and more legal shenanigans. Hopefully, this thing will be tied up in court until Timmeh is giving his speech in Cooperstown, but who knows if it does get settled and they are forced to sell they could wind up with a Jeffrey Loria (Marlins) type of owner.
I’m still cautiously optimistic as long as Agent Ned is still in charge.
"And as Edgar rounds the bases the ghosts run with him, the great ones like Mays and McCovey and Cepeda, and the almost forgotten ones like Bolin and LeMaster and Manwaring…" - J. Rant
by Giant Torture on Dec 7, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
You could be right, but I fear the opposite. I think that the LA franchise is seen as a golden jewel and you’ll have multi-millionaire big-spenders like Mark Cuban jockeying for ownership, not to mention that the other owners are not going to let another debt-ridden onwer group like the McCourts take over the Dodgers again.
Secondly, this isn’t like a normal civil lawsuit. This is a divorce proceeding, in the state of California, that is concerned with allotting marriage assets to the respective spouses. The courts are biased in deference to the wife’s situation. Once a ruling has been made it’s very, very difficult to string out appeals for years and years. If Jamie wants to force the sale of the franchise so she can get her cash out (and all reports are this is what she wants) then it will be very difficult for Frank to head her off. He doesn’t have the cash or credit to buy her out, so unless he can find a white knight to come in and lend him the money or buy a piece of the ownership he’s up the creek without a paddle.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
The owners biggest problem in this regard is their insistence on only letting members of a certain type into the club — that’s why they got the McCourts in the first place, because of his old boy network friendship with the Boston owners and consequently Bud. I’d love to see Cuban own a team, but Bud seems to be saying “over my dead body” to the prospect. Frankly, I’d be ok with that, too.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
I’d love to see a winner-take-all cage match between Bud and Cuban. The loser agrees to walk away from MLB, never to attempt to return.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
This would be good
But they’d have to use weapons, because Bud isn’t as spry as he used to be so Cuban would have the distinct advantage.
"And as Edgar rounds the bases the ghosts run with him, the great ones like Mays and McCovey and Cepeda, and the almost forgotten ones like Bolin and LeMaster and Manwaring…" - J. Rant
by Giant Torture on Dec 7, 2010 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
Here's Frank McCourt's lawyers' take
“This ruling does nothing to change the ownership of the Dodgers,” Marc Seltzer said in a statement. "Even without the marital property agreements in place, Jamie has no rights to the team. “Without the agreements in place, it becomes the court’s job to determine which property is Frank’s and which is Jamie’s based on who holds legal title to the team. The facts are crystal clear on this point. The Dodgers are solely in Frank’s name.”
I’m hoping this shapes up as a long, long legal battle that drains all of their funds and runs the Fodgers franchise further in to the ground, along with being a huge distraction throughout next year.
"And as Edgar rounds the bases the ghosts run with him, the great ones like Mays and McCovey and Cepeda, and the almost forgotten ones like Bolin and LeMaster and Manwaring…" - J. Rant
by Giant Torture on Dec 7, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
So you went through all of that for to fight for something that doesn’t matter?
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Dec 7, 2010 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
Of course he’s right in the strickest sense of what he said about Frank still holding ownership to the Dodgers, but in typical lawyer fashion he obfuscates the critical point to the gain of his employee.
The point is that California is a community-property state when it comes to divorces. All community assets of the spouses are thrown in the pot and a value is monetary value is placed on them. and the money is split in half. In general, either spouse can claim assets, or cold hard cash as their half of the take. If one spouse wants to keep specific assets that the other spouse doesn’t want, then he/she has to come up with the cash to buy the other spouse out (assuming that there is not enough cash and assets remaining in the community pot to make the other spouse whole).
In this case the judge has ruled that the Dodgers are now a part of the community pot that must be split in the divorce. Frank was trying to get him to rule that it wasn’t, based on the document signed several years ago. Frank will now have to pay Jamie half of the marital assets. Unless reports that I’ve read about the McCourts’s assets and investments are gravely in error, Frank doesn’t have the cash to do this, and the other assets in the community pot that Jamie might want to keep don’t add up to anything close to the value of the Dodgers.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Honestly, I think that the Dodgers were going to be sold either way.
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Dec 7, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
How does the financing work? Is it McCourt personally who’s leveraged to the hilt or is it the organizational entity that holds the team? (The point being, who would want to buy a team if it had all sorts of toxic liabilities attached to it.)
by non sequitur on Dec 7, 2010 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
It’s a holding company that is controlled by the McCourts. It is leveraged to the hilt though, and reports are that Frank has been rebuffed by several lenders in the past 6 months in his attempt to get loans to cary out his even more grandiose business plans.
You have to read up on the history of Frank McCourt. He’s a sleazy shyster from way back, who has screwed over every business partner he has ever had. He has also been a hairs-breadths away from losing his shirt on numerous occasions. They only thing that saved him from losing it all back in his Boston days was the “Big Dig” and massive inflows of federal dollars into the Boston construction and commercial real estate market.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
I actually do think it’s better for the Giants (and Giants fans) if they play in a division that’s a highly competitve environment.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
hurm
Sure, because God knows the Yankees fans hated it when they just got to steamroll over everyone year after year.
"The two worst things in football are: 1) They think that a 30-year old professional athlete has to be locked up in a hotel room, with a curfew, the night before a qame; and 2) They're right."
- Cowboy safety Cliff Harris
hurm
Sure seems like you missed Roger’s point. Its not only about quality baseball, having a better division makes the team more proactive.
Picture this Scenario: Giants have a 20 game lead through 80 games in a weak NL West, your starting IF is Huff, Sanchez, Burris, Panda, the starting OF is Jose Guillen, Juan Pierre, and Raul Ibanez. At the trade deadline, you find out that Justin Upton and Stephen Drew are available in package. In return the D-Backs want Belt, Wheeler, Neal, Perguero, and Runzler. Seeing as the team will likely beat up on the NL West and coast to a NL west title the GM decides against the trade. The team makes the playoff only to be crushed.
Now take the same scenario and say the team is 1 game ahead at the trade deadline. The GM makes the trade, the team makes the playoff’s and destroy’s the NL teams and goes onto the WS.
In short, being a big fish in a small pond creates a certain amount of complacency that doesn’t occur if their are other fish the same size or bigger than you.
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Dec 7, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, but there is also the other side of the coin to look at. Is it really beneficial to any team in the division to have a new owner come in and start throwing around $$$ in FA contracts that drive up the salaries of every player in the league and make it more difficult for the Giants and the 3 other mid-sized franchises in the division to keep their best players on the team once they become arb-eligible? I can see it going that way just as easily as the scenario you describe, but we’ll never know until they get sold. Also, it’s not like the Fodgers have been doomats while the owners have been in turmoil.
I
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
They were rather pathetic last year.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Except
Since the playoffs are such a crapshoot, making that trade wouldn’t necessarily lead to a deeper run through the playoffs. I’d rather be making the postseason every year with mediocre teams than once every few years with a good team, as I’m reasonably certain you’ll win more championships that way.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Well, you increase your chances of a run with better players.
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Dec 7, 2010 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Sure
Once you’re in, you want to have the best players possible. But getting there is more about skill than winning there.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
To me, sports is about the pursuit of greatness. I’d rather try to be great. And I think greater division competitiveness helps foster that.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
Maybe it's competitiveness
I think it might be more about ownership’s goals. I’ve gotten the sense that the Giants ownership since opening PBP has been that the profit maximizing strategy is to be at least competing for the playoffs all the way up to game 160, and do it with the smallest possible payroll.
On the other hand, the Yankees under Steinbrenner have been about crushing competition, and building a championship level team irrespective of the division competition. Thankfully, he sucked at it for a long time, but no one questions his will and his pocketbook in this pursuit.
So maybe competitiveness forces a little more urgency, but it doesn’t do much for the underlying lack of desire for greatness.
"The two worst things in football are: 1) They think that a 30-year old professional athlete has to be locked up in a hotel room, with a curfew, the night before a qame; and 2) They're right."
- Cowboy safety Cliff Harris
+1
I’d rather finish last while I was shooting for the ring than comfortably finish above .500 each year, knowing that I had no shot at the championship. That’s why I can’t understand these teams that don’t clear the benches and call up the prospects at at the end of July when they’re out of it but still competitive. It’s even more pronounced in football and basketball, because in those sports drafting in the first 10 picks is much more of a sure thing than it is in baseball.
That’s why the Bill Walsh 49ers of the 80’s were such must-see television. They were pushing the envelop every week and changing how the game would be played for a generation.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Absolutely
But that isn’t the choice here. You can:
Make the playoffs a few times a decade with a great team
Make the playoffs nearly every year with a good team (because you have to be good to get there)
Those good teams would probably win more championships than the great teams overall; the great teams would have a higher success rate once they’re in, but the good teams would get in enough times that it likely would overcome the lower success rate.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I agree
Except when talking about the LOL Fodgers. I think Colorado is well run enough that they will remain competitive and force the Giants to remain competitive. I also think that can be said for Arizona to a lesser extent.
The rest of the division is strong enough that I hope the Fodgers go 0-162 each and every year.
"And as Edgar rounds the bases the ghosts run with him, the great ones like Mays and McCovey and Cepeda, and the almost forgotten ones like Bolin and LeMaster and Manwaring…" - J. Rant
by Giant Torture on Dec 7, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
Does this mean that they have to declare bankruptcy? How does that affect player contracts? I know that the Rangers did it not so long ago, and it seemed to work out pretty well for them….
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
They shouldn’t have to declare bankruptcy, because the land and the value of the Dodger’s franchise is still strong. However, McCourt might end up stiffing his creditors and declaring bankruptcy for the holding company if he is forced to sell by Jamie. The ownership groups/corporations that owned the Chicago Cubs and the Texas Rangers both declared bankruptcy before they sold out in order to increase their profits from the sale.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
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