Community Prospect List #4
by marcello on Dec 16, 2010 10:29 AM PST
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PrintPlease do not rec these, we don't want to have them cluttering up the recommended fanposts. Thanks!
In another close vote Thomas Neal is the winner. Here is our list so far:
- Brandon Belt
- Zack Wheeler
- Thomas Neal
For #4, we have the following options:
Jarrett Parker
Each player should have a link to Baseball Cube in their first name and a link to First Inning in their last name unless one wasn't available. The poll will close Saturday at noon, unless it's clear enough to call before then.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
Juan Carloz Perez
not sucking up to Marcello, I’ve always liked the guy.
former adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez, Antoin Jamison, and Adam Wittler--
by foothillsfan on Dec 16, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
Suck up :)
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
Devin Harris
I am the adopted son of Willie...Willie McCovey.
Heath Hembree
"I throw as hard as I can when I think I have to throw as hard as I can." - Walter Johnson
*Formerly known as Giant Torture
So far, the list has gone the way I voted
I have a feeling it won’t on this one though, as I voted Crawford.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
It’s like I’m some super genius or something. Maybe a clairvoyant.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
Yeah
It’s looking like midseason is the best case scenario right now.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
I voted Crawford as well (and also in 3rd spot too). I feel like all of the arguments made about Neal’s bat in AA Richmond should apply to Crawford as well; isn’t is a more difficult offensive environment? Also, a shortstop with a great glove and average bat is a very valuable commodity, it seems, especially given the state of the shortstop this upcoming season.
I voted for Crawford as well
I just can’t get excited about either Brown or Peguero. At least Crawford stands a very good chance of reaching the majors, although even a scenario where he winds up like Orlando Cabrera or something seems like a pretty big long shot.
but VROOM
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
He seems a little more Tony Gwynn Jr or Rajai Davis to me
"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
His ceiling is probably Juan Pierre with better defense.
If you compare Brown’s last year in college to Tyner’s, it’s kind of shocking.
Name AB BB SO AVG OBP SLG SB CS Tyner 278 17 9 .385 .418 .442 39 7 Brown 210 9 12 .438 .468 .695 32 5
Brown has more power for sure — or at least hit for more in his last year, but they were both speedy outfielders than lived by contract. I’m not sure about park factors or anything. Tyner played at Texas A&M and I’m not sure what his home park was like.
Ask me about my blog.
What happened?
I mean, obviously you broke your thumb, but how?
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
Thumb vs. huge security door as someone was bolting through. The door swung open very hard and hit my hand. My thumb looks like a purple sausage.
Ask me about my blog.
Lawsuit!
Emotional distress for all of the embarrassing typos – should be worth millions.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Maybe he should speak to Mark DeRosa about Dragon.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Dec 17, 2010 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
Looks like it’s time to clean up the kitchen. When you’ve healed, of course.
"I can't very well tell my batters, 'Dont hit it to him.' Wherever they hit it, he's there anyway."
- NY Mets manager Gil Hodges on Willie Mays
I think Brown will have a little more pop than Tyner
If he shows that he can have gap power than I’ll be a lot higher on him. As for his ceiling, maybe Freddy Sanchez with better speed (and being in CF)
"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
Does that say, “speedy outfielders that lived by contRact”? That sentence really confused me. I mean they ALL live by their contracts, don’t they?
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
EXCUSES!
(Sorry about the broken thumb)
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
CALM DOWN THUMB!!!
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
"Because I don’t know what it means anymore, in the PCL. It’s almost like years ago."
"That’s not to say Buster isn’t fully committed or all-in. He is. He’s smart and he’s got the advance reports. Anybody who said he’s not ready to catch in the big leagues is crazy because he’s a pretty good catcher, especially throwing." - Sabean 7/11/10
Shockingly similar?
Doesn’t the 250 point gap in slugging make them about as different as Carl Crawford and Willy Taveras?
by hammystyle on Dec 16, 2010 11:39 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Well, that is one of the reasons why I wondered about parks. Does anyone know if Brown played in a hitters park? Plus, hitting with metal warps things some. In his 2 previous years he slugged .426 and .494 (UPWARD TREND!) and I can’t remember anyone saying anything about his power other than it’s better than what you would expect.
Ask me about my blog.
He doesn’t seem to have “power” in the way we mean it — he just hit a ton of singles and doubles and triples.
The park is neutral according to Boyd’s World.
AT&T could end up being the perfect park for his version of “power”. He needs to just develop a Triples Alley swing, the same way Mays was supposed to have developed a Candlestick Wind swing.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
I agree that that would be his ideal career arc (the swing-tailoring, not the Willie Maysing).
"I can't very well tell my batters, 'Dont hit it to him.' Wherever they hit it, he's there anyway."
- NY Mets manager Gil Hodges on Willie Mays
Yeah but Tyner’s problem wasn’t just homers. He didn’t hit any doubles or triples in college either. He had 12 2B’s, 2 3B’s and no homers in 278 ab’s. He just never hit the ball hard enough for it to get past anyone.
Brown had 34 XBH’s in 210 AB’s, which was a better rate than Colon, Choice, Cox, Parker,and Brentz. Grandal and vitek had him beat. Brown has some pop.
by hammystyle on Dec 16, 2010 12:40 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Power
His feet got a lot quieter at the plate and looking at video from 2009 to 2010 it seemed like his swing in general got a lot quieter. A lot of wasted motion prior, but the truly scary thing was he didn’t really seem to get his feet set and was almost all arm. I think Brown could actually get a Brandon Belt type bounce with some rather large changes to his swing mechanics. Good hand eye coordination and very strong wrists.
I think that getting his lower body involved probably helped him to drive the ball much better and may be the reason for the decent sized up-tick in SLG%.
"I throw as hard as I can when I think I have to throw as hard as I can." - Walter Johnson
*Formerly known as Giant Torture
and also
he had 2/3 as many walks in his first 6 professional games as he had the whole college season. I really think there’s something to the “who needs to walk when you’re hitting .440” thing
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Of course
He also struck out like crazy in those games.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
I'm not saying he's a BB machine all of a sudden
but it’s encouraging. Especially since BB% stabilizes pretty early
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
They do, but nearly half of his numbers are from rookie league and I can’t take them seriously. Same with S-K to an extent, I’ll go with the scouts for now.
Ask me about my blog.
probably a good idea
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Draft Pedigree
I hate it when a prospect list is dominated by players solely because of their draft status, even though they haven’t played more than a few games of pro ball and we have no way of knowing if they will adjust or not (which is why I think Jarret Parker should not be on this list yet). The only reason Gary Brown is being considered this high is because he was a first rounder, even though he projects to be a speedy centerfielder with plus defense and a bit of pop but questionable plate discipline, which is exactly what Peguero is now with a full season of high A behind him. Which is why I have Peguero as my number 3 prospect, and Gary Brown barely in the top 10.
Chris Gloor: my lefty is bigger than your lefty
by crazedcrustacean on Dec 16, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
well
look at success rates by draft round, and it’s pretty overwhelmingly in favor of 1st and 2nd rounders. Players with draft pedigree have it for a reason.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Yep. We here at McCovey Chronicles know almost everything there is to know about amateur players, but I have to think major-league draft rooms know a tiny bit more.
WHAT THE FUCK WHY DIDN"T WE TAKE SMOAK!
THIS POSEY FELLOW WILL BE A BUST! A BUST I SAY!
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
/throws self down stairs
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
’ A better crazy talk equivalent in German is reiner Wahnsinn (i.e., sheer madness). But if you must use sprechen at least do it grammatically right with verrücktes.
The only reason Gary Brown is being considered this high is because he was a first rounder
Not actually true. Brown does have a track record of playing against advanced competition in a wooden bat league. He played 2+ months in the Cape Cod League (I think it’s fair to say the competition in that league would correspond to something similar to many A+ pro leagues – but certainly it’s on a level with low-A pro leagues) in the Summer of 2009, where he hit just over .300, played great D in CF, walked at greater than an 8% rate, and was picked to start in CF for the all-star game by the league coaches. Nothing to get too excited about, but it does give us much more of a glimpse into what his floor may be.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
by Fla-Giant on Dec 16, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup
You made me a believer. Partly because the video I was watching of him was old and he wasn’t getting his feet underneath him and driving the ball with his legs, but the one thing that’s never been in question about the guy is his defense. It’s major league ready right now and he could compete for GG’s at the big league level tomorrow. Arm’s a little meh, but he takes great routes to the ball and has a tremendous first step.
"I throw as hard as I can when I think I have to throw as hard as I can." - Walter Johnson
*Formerly known as Giant Torture
Totally Agree
I voted for Peguero for the same reason, and because I saw him play at San Jose. Hoe many early round draft picks go nowhere. Got to vote for those that show something in a real game.
"What makes you think you're Jesus Christ?"
"Well, when I pray I seem to be talking to myself"
"how many early round draft picks go nowhere?"
WAY fewer than later rounds.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Brown suffers from our recent round of success
I think Brown gets unfairly treated around here because of heightened expectations from the fans due to our recent run of unbelievable first round success.
The thing is, Brown is not an early pick. He’s not even a mid first round pick. There are reasons why players like Posey are picked in the top ten with 6M signing bonus. They are complete players with high upsides.
We are spoiled by the run of LIncecum, Bumgarner, Posey, and to a lesser extend, Wheeler. Brown is not the same type of high ceiling players those guys are, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t a fine prospect that excels in certain dimensions (speed, defense) with room to improve.
There are not that many sure fire – can’t miss type prospects out there. And as far as I am concerned, you don’t need to develop Brown’s speed or defense. It’s there. It isn’t going away. If he can just hit a little and get on base a little he will be a solid player.
That’s way more than you can ask for with the 24th overall pick on a lean signing bonus.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I absolutely agree with your larger point, and I know there were scouts who believed in Brown’s tools package more than Colon’s. I do think there are two other factors that affect the situation though. 1) The Giants have a history of ignoring the importance of OBP and OBP is the biggest red flag in Brown’s portfolio, which can be a toxic combo, in perception at least, if not, we hope in practice; and 2) lingering disappointment from some of the more traditional upside bats that were on the board at the time, like Cox, Brentz, and my personal fave at the time, Castellanos.
On the whole though, I’m with you. He’s the #24 pick in a relatively weak draft class, and he’s exactly the kind of guy you get with that sort of pick: tools that could play up big, but with notable flaws.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
AUGH you caught my pet peeve
OBP is not Brown’s red flag, BB% is. Dude’s LOWEST college OBP was .375.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
His future OBP is a red flag
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
no
his walk rate is a red flag. Walk rate != OBP. They are highly correlated, but not the same. It’s entirely possible to have a good OBP and bad walk rate, it’s also possible to have a bad OBP with a good walk rate.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
See : Suzuki, Ichiro.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Juan Pierre
Freddy Sanchez, Aaron Rowand
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
off the top of my head
all had average-slightly above OBPs with BB%<6
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
Juan Pierre is the upside comp I am quoting for Brown
Using Ichiro is a category error. He’s too unique. If your point is, sometimes contact makes up for hackiness, pick a less-historic name to make it.
my point is
that BB% != OBP, that’s pretty much it.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
How about Carl Crawford?
He walked about 5% of the time in the minors.
Calling Juan Pierre his upside is rough. Juan Pierre has hit 15 HR’s in his whole career. And Brown could potentially do that in one season.
by hammystyle on Dec 16, 2010 2:41 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
There are plenty of other examples
Vladamir Guerrero, Fernando Vina, Tony Gwynn, Kirby Puckett were all successful with high OBP and low BB%
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Peguero
He’s hit in A+ ball, has good speed and defense (though not as good as Brown’s) but better power. And his patience while still bad, did improve this year. Also he has a really high ceiling.
"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
I’m with Peguero and then Brown. I was going to vote Peguero, Neal, Brown on 3, 4, 5. I have a feeling I’ll end up voting Peguero, Peguero, Peguero instead. But I don’t think the gap is very big between the three. They all have an interesting mixture of tools and red flags.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
I was gonna go Peguero/Neal/Bucardo/Parker/Brown
But I think I’ll end up having to vote Peguero/Peguero/Peguero/Bucardo/Bucardo
"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
Yeah
These polls can get annoying when you have to vote for the same guy over and over again.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
Meh I expected it
I know my list is far different than most people’s
"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
Although I love him like a son, I can’t quite put Jorge up that high with the reports of his low velocity. There’s just too much data against players without league average fb succeeding in the majors. He’s still young and I love the GB tendencies, but I think he’s going to have to add a few MPH. I’m putting him around 10 I think.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
Yes, but I think he mixes up his arm angle, though I sadly have never gotten to see him live.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
I love side-armers, but it makes me a little worried. When was the last SP that was successful at throwing side-armed?
I miss Adam Cowart.
Ask me about my blog.
Does Livan count? Or Marichal? Actually, I suspect Bucardo could improve his profile if he was one of those “occassional drop down” types.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
Maybe Jose Contreras? He throws from all sorts of angles and was pretty successful as a starter.
Ask me about my blog.
Kyung Hyun Kim actually had a season starting with Arizona that was pretty impressive, but then he got traded to Boston mid-season and they moved him back to the bullpen. His years as a starter with Colorado were below average, but considering it was Colorado that’s not too unexpected.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
Jeff Weaver comes to mind right off the bat.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
He’s closer to pure sidearm than he is to overhand. Are people saying that Bucardo throws from a pure sidearm release? I was picturing him as maybe slightly below 3/4.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
This is the one that I’ve seen before
http://www.elnuevodiario.com.ni/pix/2009/12/316_1262056763_JORGEB.jpg
Ask me about my blog.
Thanks
It’s a bit hard to tell from that what his pre-release motion was, but it sure seems to be very close to pure sidearm.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
He looks like a submariner in this one
http://espndeportes-assets.espn.go.com/2003/photos2009/1202/BucardoJorgeLanzaNuevoDiario200x300.jpg
but more normal-ish in this one
It’s hard to tell. But it seems to give some credence to the ‘varying arm angles’
Ask me about my blog.
Maybe I'm overreacting because I used to really not believe
but his season really impressed me and I’m a sucker for sinkerballers
"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
I'm going "safer" this time
And I think that Brown’s floor is higher than FranPeg’s
/wins award for worst nickname idea
Aaron King, please pitch better.
McC Wiki - for all you newcomers out there.
Brown does have a high floor
I mean people with his skillset make it to the majors. Case in point: Ford, Darren
"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
Brown is better than that
His contact rates and unbelievable speed will ensure he makes the majors. Ford can take a walk, but he can’t get his bat on the ball anywhere close to what Brown can…and when he does, it’s for no power. Brown has some power.
Oh, Brown is definitely a better prospect than Ford
I was just saying that pretty much the only reason Ford made it to the reason was his speed & defense-which are Brown’s 2 best tools
"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
Gary Brown for me. Roger’s been wearing me down about Peguero, but I can’t get past this:
age: 21-22
strikeouts: 88
walks: 18
It’s so, so hard to find any major-league players, let alone good ones, who had that kind of plate discipline at that age. Brown, at least, hasn’t yet proven he’s such an extreme hacker.
So you’re going with “the hacker you know is worse than the hacker you don’t” theory.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
Pretty much. All I ask is that one of those two develop into a solid major-league centerfielder. Surely that’s not too much to ask for?
don’t sleep on Parker!
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
/Peguero’d ?
Wait, this is probably not a good way to get him support
"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
Roger comes BIG.
"I can't very well tell my batters, 'Dont hit it to him.' Wherever they hit it, he's there anyway."
- NY Mets manager Gil Hodges on Willie Mays
But when it's sitting there on a tee....
"I can't very well tell my batters, 'Dont hit it to him.' Wherever they hit it, he's there anyway."
- NY Mets manager Gil Hodges on Willie Mays
I’m seriously hoping that Andres Torres spends some time with Francisco in ST extolling the benefits of an improved approach to hitting. He’s really the absolute perfect person to work with someone like Peguero and get the offensive player out of the offensive tools that are there in the rough stone.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
So this list seems pretty meh already.
Kruk: "and the Giants, the San Francisco Giants…"
Kuip: "They got one…"
Kruk: "World Champs."
- November 1, 2010
That's because it is
But on the bright side, the Giants are World Champions!
"I throw as hard as I can when I think I have to throw as hard as I can." - Walter Johnson
*Formerly known as Giant Torture
Brown
Because of, quite frankly, his draft pedigree and the either poor performance or low ceiling of the people behind him.
Quietly hoping Brandon Belt develops into John Olerud, circa 1993.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Dec 16, 2010 11:09 AM PST reply actions
Voting Brown because of the UPS girl
What can Brown do for you!
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Gary Brown
Extreme speed and insane defensive value (ability & position) make the threshold the bat needs to get to soooooooo much lower for him to be very valuable.
Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.
Fuck you for saying what I said in 1/5 of the space.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Frankie Pegs
How can you resist a nickname like that?
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
by EliminateMe on Dec 16, 2010 11:34 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Looks like I'm the one vote for Tommy Joseph
I still believe in his power. I think he’ll have a big year next season. And I’d rather rank someone who’s actually played pro ball at #4.
My Son
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
You are brave to admit your mistake opinion.
"I can't very well tell my batters, 'Dont hit it to him.' Wherever they hit it, he's there anyway."
- NY Mets manager Gil Hodges on Willie Mays
Joseph had a disappointing season, but he still hit for good power as one of the youngest players in the SAL. I mean, he’s three years younger than Peguero, four years younger than Thomas Neal, and he outhomered both of them.
I have Joseph, Peguero, and Adrianza in a jumble at spots 5-7.
Pretty decent jumble. We’ll have all the same guys on the board by the time we get to 7.
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
Gary Brown
Because I’m insulating myself for when Peguero fails miserably in AA.
I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?
I'm tempted to vote for Surkamp...
partially because I don’t see the negative to his prospect status in the same way as Brown/Parker no professional time thing or Peguero’s strike-outs.
I guess maybe there is a age/experience to league thing. Where do people think Surkamp starts next season?
I’ll probably vote Brown (draft pedigree).
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
"Because I don’t know what it means anymore, in the PCL. It’s almost like years ago."
"That’s not to say Buster isn’t fully committed or all-in. He is. He’s smart and he’s got the advance reports. Anybody who said he’s not ready to catch in the big leagues is crazy because he’s a pretty good catcher, especially throwing." - Sabean 7/11/10
Surkamp probably starts at AA next year
"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
but does he have more “guts”?
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
BA said he has the best Curve in the system last year
If his FB was even average…
"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
Peguero
Please don’t suck in AA!
I don’t mind if Brown wins this spot, but I want to see a full season of him first.
I went with Brown
Gary “The Flash” Brown. Not only does he already play major league-ready above-average D in CF, and would be the best baserunner of any Giant (major of minor league) right now, but he just might be the fastest RH hitter from home plate to 1B in the modern era of baseball. The dude could earn a roster position on many major league teams right now based on his defense and baserunning. We’re just waiting on his bat now.
On the other hand, in every one of his pro seasons, Pegs has exhibited the one thing that all the Brown-doubters point to as his achilles heel – the extreme inability to take a walk. At least Brown showed he could walk at above an 8% clip in his 2+ months of play in the wood bat Cape Cod League in the Summer of 2009. Also, and this is a big deal to me, Pegs has not shown me that he has learned much at all in his pro career in how to steal and run the bases. He continues to get picked off and make bonehead plays on the basepaths even at the age of 22 this past summer. I just don’t see where he has progressed much the past 3 years, and I put much of his good power and batting average numbers from this past season down to the Cal League Effect.
So, what I see is 1 guy that has showed the ability to learn and adapt, and who already has 2 fringe plus major league-level tools in his arsenal, and another guy that has shown little abiltiy to learn and adapt who has no above-average major league-level tools in his arsenal. Doesn’t seem like a tough choice to me.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
by Fla-Giant on Dec 16, 2010 12:44 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
The dude could earn a roster position on many major league teams right now based on his defense and baserunning. We’re just waiting on his bat now.
How’d Schierholtz get into this discussion?
MY DAD WAS WRONG!
Schierholtz is a fine defender and baserunner, but Brown is in a whole different league. Schierholtz does not turn ground ball into right field into triples. He is 3.9 secs from home to first from the RIGHT side. He turns doubles to the right side into standing triples and ground ball to short into singles.
Gary Brown is a perfect 80/80 on the speed scale. That is special speed, not Good speed.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I’ve only seen him play 1 game, although I listened to about 25 SJ games on the net radio this season, so most of this is going off info from 3rd parties. Pegs has all of the tools to be a plus defender in CF. His arm is slightly above-average for a CF, but nothing to write home about. His main problem right now, and this is basically the problem with all facets of his game, is that he doesn’t seemed to be “baseball smart” yet. He doesn’t always take the best route to the ball, and he doesn’t seem to position himself to get the best jump on the ball. He’s nowhere near the Velez-level, but I really need to see him, or hear about him, taking that next step to where he’s a smarter player with better baseball instincts before I can truly believe in him as a top prospect.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Peguero’s incredible ascent up the prospect list over the past 3 years is directly tied to his health. He’s been healthy, played, and shown off his tools. But, yeah, I agree that he hasn’t exhibited a whole heck of a lot of new, learned skills. I will say that if he does this year in AA what he’s done the past 2 years, I’d have no problem ranking him ahead of Neal or Brown, unless one or both of them go nuts.
Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.
Peguero didn’t really hit much better than JC Perez, Culby, Johnny Monell, and Jose Flores. The 846 OPS is nice but not dominant in a hitters’ league. So I’m voting Brown. And will rec JC Perez to be included soon. He alternated in center with Peguero, and played 2B too.
former adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez, Antoin Jamison, and Adam Wittler--
by foothillsfan on Dec 16, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
No, he didn’t. But good performance at a young age with lots of stand-out tools puts him way above all the others that you just listed. He’s got a LOT of positives — not just one or two.
Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.
From the Klaw chat
Josh G (Sacramento)
Is one of Gary Brown, Jarrett Parker, or Francisco Peguero good enough to be the Giants CF of the future?
Klaw
(12:59 PM)
Brown. Peguero’s interesting but raw. Never liked Parker’s swing.
I voted Brown, he seems like the most likely to be a useful major leaguer.
I'm actually not a huge KLaw fan
But maybe I should be. His assessment of many of the Giants prospects seem to be in line with mine. Peguero could be great, but he falls in to that “toolsy” category, where it’s a crapshoot whether or not he’ll ever put it all together. Parker’s swing will get exposed at higher levels, he’s the pick that really upset me the most because there were so many better players still on the board. Brown almost wins by default, but as previously mentioned with his baserunning and defensive abilities he doesn’t need to hit nearly as much to be valuable, but he has great hand-eye coordination and very strong wrists which are very important for big-league hitters.
"I throw as hard as I can when I think I have to throw as hard as I can." - Walter Johnson
*Formerly known as Giant Torture
I like Gary Brown here because of the mystery.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
lol
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
"Because I don’t know what it means anymore, in the PCL. It’s almost like years ago."
"That’s not to say Buster isn’t fully committed or all-in. He is. He’s smart and he’s got the advance reports. Anybody who said he’s not ready to catch in the big leagues is crazy because he’s a pretty good catcher, especially throwing." - Sabean 7/11/10
- And we’re already into meh territory.
On the plus side, the San Francisco Giants won the World Series.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing, your next dominant reliever 1.47 ERA in S-K, with 34 K in 42 IP. Uh, just ignore his age and the walks, please!
#4
Fuck SBN’s weird-ass auto-format bullshit that NOBODY IN THE WORLD ACTUALLY USES AND MAKES NO SENSE.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing, your next dominant reliever 1.47 ERA in S-K, with 34 K in 42 IP. Uh, just ignore his age and the walks, please!
I've actually used the # one a couple of times when making lists
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
It seems like making a list manually would be just as easy, but I’ve never tried so I don’t know.
Making calculations based upon statiscal histori-garbage rather than situation reality since 1980
Adopted Giant: Kaohi Downing, your next dominant reliever 1.47 ERA in S-K, with 34 K in 42 IP. Uh, just ignore his age and the walks, please!
It can be easier with the # if you're moving stuff around
Say, like trying to put together a top 30 prospect list, since you don’t have to keep renumbering as you inevitably switch guys around before posting.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, future CF for the World Champion San Francisco Giants.
I hate all of them. I might just vote for Crawford.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
You should
And don’t let his non-existent bat get in the way either.
"I throw as hard as I can when I think I have to throw as hard as I can." - Walter Johnson
*Formerly known as Giant Torture
I really, really, really don’t understand the Brandon Crawford bubble around here. If there’s a single professional prospect hound anywhere on the internet who has rated him ahead of Adrianza, I must have missed it — and yet Crawford has fifteen times as many votes in this poll as Adrianza.
I love his glove
But his bat, is suspect at best and I think a lot of the love around here comes from his big year in SJ. Watching him in Richmond last year, I haven’t given up on the guy and think he can be an everyday big league SS some day, but I agree with you that Adrianza is the better prospect, although I will admit I haven’t seen him play.
"I throw as hard as I can when I think I have to throw as hard as I can." - Walter Johnson
*Formerly known as Giant Torture
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