Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Gobroks' 2nd annual Rule 5 preview-Top 20 prospects that could fit the Giants



So here is my fanpost for last year's Rule 5 draft, where I neglect to mention Steve Johnson at all. Johnson is Rule 5 eligible again this year, but he did not make my top 25 prospect list. There are 2 prospects from last year's class who make this year's top 20. I also called Mike McBryde "very good"...not sure how I can defend that.

Anyway, the Rule 5 draft is different, in terms of drafting philosophy, than the Rule 4 amateur draft (which happens in June) in that in the amateur draft teams never draft for need, because those players are most likely 3-4 years away and it doesn't make sense to assume that far ahead. In the Rule 5 draft though, teams are expecting players to compete for specific roles and possibly make the team.

So with that being said, this top 20 list isn't the best 20 Rule 5 prospects-it's the best prospects that could help the 2011, defending World Champion, San Francisco Giants.

All stats are courtesy of Baseball Reference.

 

Edit: So the Giants signed Miguel Tejada and none of these SS's qualify as "slick fielding". So now, basically I want the Giants to somehow get Horst, though I wouldn't be shocked if we don't make a pick at all. Anyway now I'd edit this list to where Friday gets pushed down to 7th, Josh Horton gets dropped from the list, and Ryan Adams gets pushed up. Also, Wynn Pelzer who is eligible was traded for Tejada last year, so it would be kinda weird if we got him. Though with his prospect pedigree I think he gets taken before we get to pick. Anyway, Now our 40 man roster is at 39, I believe and we don't have a starting LF-so I doubt we make a pick.

Star-divide

So before I get into the top 20 list, I'll talk about possible Giants who could get selected. I really only see 2 possible players who could leave the organization in the major league Rule 5 draft-Joe Paterson and Brock Bond . Of the two, I think Paterson is more likely. I could see a team that is in need of rebuilding their bullpen taking a flier on him as a LOOGY. I wouldn't be shocked to see Tampa Bay select him as a possible replacement for Randy Choate.

Bond on the other hand is somewhat less likely. He is, of course, the 2B who does a great job of getting on base, but every other tool is fringy. That said, with a fairly weak 2B and 3B market, I wouldn't be surprised to see some team take a shot with him. San Diego, actually makes some sense, due to David Eckstein being a FA-Bond could be a cheap back up plan if they can't sign someone like Orlando Hudson.

I don't see any other players being considered. though Tyler Graham could intrigue a few teams. Anyway on to the list!

1-Brian Friday-SS-Pittsburgh Pirates

2010 Stats (Between GCL, A+, AAA): .261/.354/.383

Career Stats: .272/.360/.387

Friday is a high floor, low ceiling SS out of the Pirates organization who ranks #1 on this list because he has always gotten on base at a decent clip, and could represent a decent emergency option if the Giants aren't able to sign a FA SS or trade for one.

2-Brad Emaus-2B/3B-Toronto Blue Jays

2010 Stats (Between AA/AAA): .298/.395/.495

Career Stats: .276/.364/.426

Emaus represents one of the more ML ready prospects in this draft. The upswing in his 2010 stats probably represent the help he received from playing in Las Vegas. Still he could be a good utility guy, and I don't think he's available when the Giants pick. I actually think Seattle grabs him at #2 and has him hold down the fort at 2B until Dustin Ackley is ready to take over, then Emaus shifts into a utility role.

3-Jeremy Horst-LHP-Cincinnati Reds

2010 Stats: (Between A+, AA, AAA): 2.62 ERA, 72 IP, 9.4 K/9, 2.2 BB/9

Career Stats: 3.12 ERA, 8.6 K/9, 3.0 BB/9

So I've probably been annoying the hell out of twitter followers with my tweets about Horst. But I looked at his BR page and couldn't look away. He started walking almost a batter less per 9 IP, and striking out almost 1 more batter per 9 IP, and voila he shot up 3 levels. In AA, where Horst spent the majority of his season (46 IP) he had a K:BB of 5.11. If I was doing this list based solely on best prospects, Horst would pretty easily be #1. I can't see anyway Horst makes it past the DBacks, given their need for bullpen help-though I think the Pirates (who have the 1st pick) should probably take him.

4-Ed Lucas-SS-Atlanta Braves.

2010 Stats (AAA): .307/.398/.480

Career Stats: .286/.362/.400

Lucas is an odd candidate for the Rule 5 draft. He was actually recently signed by the Atlanta Braves (after coming from the Royals) but since he was signed to a minor league deal and was a 6 year FA he is still Rule V eligible. His 2010 was probably helped in large part by the PCL parks, but he, like Friday, is a good emergency plan at SS. I like Friday more, mainly because he is younger.

5-Marquez Smith-3B-Chicago Cubs

2010 Stats (Between AA and AAA): .297/.371/.556

Career Stats: .283/.358/.481

Smith has put up consistently solid numbers through his minor league career, including a big year at AAA (probably PCL aided too). I think he could be an interesting pick for the Giants if they want to challenge Pablo Sandoval to take hold of his starting job, while protecting themselves from the fact that Mark DeRosa's wrist could be jelly.

6-Adam Ottavino-RHP-St. Louis Cardinals

2010 Stats (AAA): 3.97 ERA, 47.2 IP, 8.1 K/9, 2.9 BB/9

Career Stats: 4.14 ERA, 7.9 K/9, 4.2 BB/9

Ottavino was a first round pick in 2006, who really struggled with the transition to the upper minors. This year his peripherals improved (though it was in only 47.2 IP, which would probably be roughly 2 months?) so the sample is small. Still if he has turned a corner and we can stash him in our bullpen-either as a power arm out of the back end of the bullpen or a long reliever-he could be a steal.

7-Matt Lawson-2B-Seattle Mariners

2010 Stats (AA): .293/.372/.440

Career Stats: .283/.352/.407

So Matt Lawson always reminds me of former Twins OF Matt Lawton, who according to BR isn't as good as I remember him being. Lawson was the last piece of the Cliff Lee trade. He will probably be a utility infielder in the majors, but I find him intriguing because he improved as a hitter after moving up to AA from the Cal League-which rarely happens. He could be worth a flier if he has turned a corner in his swing.

8-Zach Simons-RHP-Detroit Tigers

2010 Stats (Between AA and AAA): 2.70 ERA, 70 IP, 9.3 K/9, 3.6 BB/9

Career Stats: 3.97 ERA, 7.1 K/9, 3.7 BB/9

Simons was initially drafted by the Rockies before being traded to the Tigers for Pitcher Jason Grilli (who was a former Giants 1st round pick). Simons is interesting because this year he kept walking the same amount of guys, but striking out 2 more batters per 9 IP.

9-Nick Hill-LHP-Seattle Mariners

2010 Stats (AA): 4.22 ERA, 42.2 IP, 7.8 K/9, 3.8 BB/9

Career Stats: 3.62 ERA, 8.4 K/9, 2.9 BB/9

So, 2010 was a bad year for Nick Hill as all his stats got worse in his second year at AA. His low inning count, however could mean he was bothered by an injury all year and was never right. If you believe that this year was just a result of a nagging injury he could be worth taking a flier on because power lefties are always valuable.

10-Jason Rice-RHP-Boston Red Sox

2010 Stats (AA): 2.85 ERA, 60 IP, 10.6 K/9, 4.5 BB/9

Career Stats: 3.95 ERA, 9.8 K/9, 5.3 BB/9

So 2010 was something of a breakout year for Rice. He improved his K/9 and BB/9 as much as Jeremy Horst did. That said he is still walking too many guys, which is the reason he is being left unprotected for the 2nd year in a row. Given the Giants affinity for power relievers with questionable control (Bautista, Casilla, Runzler, Affeldt etc) I would not be surprised if they took a chance on Rice.

11-Mark Hamburger-RHP-Texas Rangers

2010 Stats (Between A+ and AA): 2.20 ERA, 65.1 IP, 9.5 K/9, 3.6 BB/9

Career Stats: 3.41 ERA, 8.5 K/9, 3.4 BB/9

Hamburger not only has the most delicious name, he also has an interesting story. In 2008 he was released by the Twins traded for Eddie Guardado (thanks to LionsRoar10 in the comments) despite putting up decent numbers. The Rangers took a chance and he stuck with them. He's another guy who's K/9 increased while his ERA decreased (Correlation possibly = causation, in this scenario?)

12-Ryan Adams-2B-Baltimore Orioles

2010 Stats (AA): .298/.365/.464

Career Stats: .287/.354/.426

Adams is actually a pretty good comp for the Giants Charlie Culberson-Both were SS's drafted out of HS in the South (Adams in Louisiana, Culberson in Georgia) who had to move to 2nd for defensive purposes and are shaky even there. Adams, however is probably a worse fielder than Culberson. But Adams, like Matt Lawson saw his hitting increase after a move to AA. Adams was also rated the #8 prospect in the Orioles system by Baseball America.

13-Jonathan Joseph-RHP-Oakland A's

2010 Stats (Between SS and A-) : 3.05 ERA, 94.1 IP, 8.6 K/9, 3.8 BB/9

Career Stats: 4.30 ERA, 8.4 K/9, 3.8 BB/9

Joseph is a more typical Rule 5 selection-a live arm who is a long ways away, that teams try to hide on their roster for the whole season. I have Joseph here mainly because I have a feeling (no idea why) that he'll be better than the other raw arms (namely, the Yankees Jairo Heredia).

14-Scott Diamond-LHP-Atlanta Braves

2010 Stats (AA and AAA): 3.46 ERA, 158.2 IP, 7.0 K/9, 3.1 BB/9

Career Stats: 3.28 ERA, 7.3 K/9, 3.0 BB/9

Diamond is more of a finesse lefty than a power arm. He profiles as a back end starter or middle reliever, but I've always been interested in him (again, I'm not sure why). One concern about selecting him-when he was promoted to AAA his K/9 decreased by 2.6.

15-Wynn Pelzer-RHP-Baltimore Orioles

2010 Stats (AA): 4.25 ERA, 114.1 IP, 8.1 K/9, 5.0 BB/9

Career Stats: 3.86 ERA, 8.2 K/9, 3.6 BB/9

Pelzer was the pitcher the Padres sent to the Orioles for Miguel Tejada. He had a tough year adjusting to AA and his BB/9 rose by 1.4. He was still rated in the Orioles top 10 by BA, coming in at #6-which  probably says a lot about the state of the O's system if 2 of their top 10 prospects are Rule 5 eligible.

16-Craig Heyer-RHP-New York Yankees.

2010 Stats (A+) : 3.52 ERA, 92 IP, 6.5 K/9, 0.6 BB/9

Career Stats : 2.96 ERA, 5.1 K/9, 1.3 BB/9

So Craig Heyer proved it is possible to lower a 1.3 BB/9. He's not a power arm but he literally doesn't walk anybody. In 2010 he walked 6 people, and had a K:BB of 11. I think he was destined to get picked by the Twins-I mean is there a more perfect fit?

17-Josh Horton-SS-Oakland A's

2010 Stats (Between A+ and AA): .286/.353/.364

Career Stats: .278/.358/.362

Josh Horton was the SS on the North Carolina teams that featured the prominent pitching duo of Andrew Miller and Daniel Bard. He has shown good patience with the bat (shocking from an A's player, I know) but the reason he rates so far below Lucas and Friday is because A): He doesn't have experience at AAA-so not quite as ML ready and B): He is supposed to be pretty bad defensively.

18-George Kontos-RHP-New York Yankees

2010 Stats (Between A+, AA, AAA): 3.60 ERA, 45 IP, 7.6 K/9, 3.0 BB/9

Career Stats: 3.47 ERA, 8.9 K/9, 3.1 BB/9

This was Kontos' first year removed from TJ surgery and the noticeable difference is his drop in K/9. He was thught of as a fairly good prospect before his surgery, and usually TJ recoverees get their stuff back. Kontos is worth a gamble if you think his stuff and K's will return.

19-Pedro Beato-RHP-Baltimore Orioles.

2010 Stats (AA): 2.11 ERA, 59.2 IP, 7.5 K/9, 2.9 BB/9

Career Stats: 4.21 ERA, 6.2 K/9, 3.2 BB/9

Beato was a 1st round pick from the Orioles in 2006 who has been a major disappointment. He only posted a K/9 over 7 twice-In SS ball in 2006 and in 2010 in his second year in AA. He is still only 23 so there is potential, but he has shown he has had problems missing bats.

20-Paulo Orlando-OF-Kansas City Royals

2010 Stats (AA): .305/.366/.480

Career Stats: .268/.316/.406

Orlando was signed by the White Sox out of Brazil-a country not known for its baseball exports. He was mainly a track and field guy who had to learn to play baseball. He was shipped to KC for Horacio Ramirez Orlando finally hit this year in AA. He's not ready to hit in the majors, but he could be a 5th OF/PR right now.

5 Others to watch

1-Koby Clemens-1B-Houston Astros. Has good patience, but probably not enough power for a 1B.

2-Nick Carr-RHP-New York Mets. He was like Denny Bautista but in High A: 10.6 K/9, 6.8 BB/9

3-Aneury Rodriguez-RHP-Tampa Bay Rays. He's getting mentioned a lot in Rule 5 talk but IMO he either needs to improve his K/9 (7.3) or lower his BB/9 (3.7). Props for symmetry though.

4-Jairo Heredia-RHP-New York Yankees. Good command for a raw arm (BB/9 under 3).

5-Adam Loewen-OF-Toronto Blue Jays. Converted LHP taking the anti Rick Ankiel approach to hitting-Loewen has good patience, but not enough power for a corner OF spot.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

Comment 73 comments  |  8 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I want Hamburger please

Thing A

"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud

by sam23 on Nov 28, 2010 5:09 AM PST reply actions  

I can’t see the Giants drafting a pitcher that they have to keep on the roster all season. There’s really no openings, which is why a pitcher with potential like Waldis Joaquin gets released.

Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees because he wants to win the World Series. Wait, what???

by rxmeister on Nov 28, 2010 6:21 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I was thinking this too

I was also thinking the same thing about OF.

The thong is, it happened.

by Goofus on Nov 28, 2010 7:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I don’t know anything about the guy, I just love the name.

Thing A

"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud

by sam23 on Nov 28, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Dum, dum dum, dum


Friday would obviously provide a lot of McC in name-value alone.

You said you like Friday because he’s younger, but unless we’d be looking at one of these guys as a long-term fixture at SS, does the four year difference really matter?

Any word on who has plays better defense between Friday and Lucas? I noticed Lucas is Ripken-big (6’3" 205 lbs). Does he move well? I also noticed it looks like he has more pop.

The thong is, it happened.

by Goofus on Nov 28, 2010 7:05 AM PST reply actions  

I believe Friday is a bit better

but neither one is great defensively.

"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks

by Gobroks on Nov 28, 2010 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

See what you're saying about Friday

But I think Lucas is closer to being ready and is a better short-term solution. Friday hasn’t even played a full-season of AAA ball, so I think he’s a bit tougher to project. That being said, I agree that Friday is a better long-term solution and has both a higher floor and ceiling than Lucas. To me it’s a pick’em, depending on who’s available and what the straw hats have to say about both.

"I signed up for this job, the day I was born" - Brian Wilson, Ninja

by Giant Torture on Nov 29, 2010 8:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Also re the 4 your difference

I think it makes a little bit of a difference-if for no other reason than if we are able to keep him on the roster all year then he has some more value for the future. It’s not a huge difference, but enough for me to separate them

"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks

by Gobroks on Nov 28, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Great work

You must be cross-eyed after sifting through all the candidates and singling out 20. Nice find in Jeremy Horst – I hadn’t heard of him before. One thing that sticks out to me is how many of hte guys on your list come from teams that were absolutely horrible last year (Mariners, O’s, Pirates, Cubs, Royals). If I’m the GM of any of those teams and I know that I’ve got some kids that will be Rule 5 eligible at the end of the season then I have to call them up to the majors and see how they do. It’s not like they’re going to make matters worse, and it’s possible that you end up identifying a real player a la the Giants and Pablo Sandoval in 2008.

Sadly, I’ll be surprised if the Giants pick any player in this years Rule 5. Any player that they might be interested in will be sure to be off the board by the time they get a chance to draft. Besides, their bench and pen are already so crowded and this won’t be a year when they feel that they can experiment while defending their championship.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Nov 28, 2010 9:04 AM PST reply actions  

Holding out hope

I agree, in that I doubt the Giants draft anyone in the Rule V draft for the reasons you’ve mentioned above. That being said the Rule V draft would seem to favor the Giants who depend more heavily on straw hats than numbers to be able to find someone who isn’t on anyone else’s radar because their numbers aren’t that great, but whose tools they like so I’m holding out some hope that they’re able to pluck someone out of another organization.

With regards to your comments about bad teams leaving players exposed to the Rule V draft, I think it’s due in large part to the fact that most of the teams you mentioned have a propensity for drafting near the top of the draft and because they’re teams are made up of AAA players. Consequently, they typically have deeper systems, and I don’t think it’s necessarily them not evaluating their talent, as much as it was they were just evaluating different players and trying to keep butts in the seats. While it might be best for their prospects of building a sustained winner, teams like Chicago have huuuge budgets and need to make money to cover those budgets. If they were to ditch all of their veterans towards the end of the year, than they risk looking like they’ve “given up” and possibly losing more season ticket holders for the following year.

"I signed up for this job, the day I was born" - Brian Wilson, Ninja

by Giant Torture on Nov 29, 2010 9:05 AM PST up reply actions  

I can’t agree with you on the Cubs. They pretty much draw the same number of fans whether they’re in 3rd place or last place. The only time they see a significant difference in their attendance is when they’re competing for the division title all the way until the final week.

As for the other teams, I think the vast majority of their fans will be more likely to come out and watch the kids from the minors play with all-out effort in August and September than the same old veterans that have left them 20 games out of the lead and in last place once again.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Nov 29, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

To an extent, but I think people like you and I would be much more likely to come out and watch the kids, but Joe Six-pack who only follows baseball casually or barely at all, wants to see marquee names or at least names they recognize when they come to the yard. That being said most of the other teams are very, very young as it is, so as I mentioned, it may not be that they don’t want to give someone a look, but rather that they’re already giving someone else a look.

Sorry to be so convoluted though, because I’m not actually disagreeing with you, I actually think in a lot of instances you’re absolutely right, but a lot of the time I think those two things are the driving thought-processes.

"I signed up for this job, the day I was born" - Brian Wilson, Ninja

by Giant Torture on Nov 30, 2010 8:32 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree with this
To an extent, but I think people like you and I would be much more likely to come out and watch the kids, but Joe Six-pack who only follows baseball casually or barely at all, wants to see marquee names or at least names they recognize when they come to the yard.

The Giants were a good example. The team wasn’t doing well, but fans came out to see Barry. Once Barry left, it took a winning team to bring attendance back up. We might have been excoted about guys like Timmy, but the “crowds” want to see established names.

The thong is, it happened.

by Goofus on Dec 2, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I mostly agree. But Fla’s point was specific to Aug/Sept. of losing seasons. And I think he’s right about that, because by the end of going nowhere years, the big crowds have already faded away no matter who’s on the field. And fresh names who bring some whiff of future hope at that point are better than big names that the fanbase is sick of.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!

by Roger on Dec 2, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Right

Remember back in the beginning of August of 2008 when the Giants totally sucked in the field? Sabean called up guys like Panda, Rohlinger, and Ishikawa and actually became interesting and much funner to watch. I’m sure they drew more fans than they would have if they had just continued to trot out the same tired veterans, but that’s not the point. The point is is that the Giants got a jump on evaluating their prospects, and got them experience in the majors, which allowed them to be a better team at the beginning of the 2009 season. I just don’t understand why perennial losers like the Pirates and Nationals don’t do more of this, and why other teams playing out the string on a lost season don’t use the last 6-8 weeks of the season to evaluate the prospects that they’re going to have to make tough decisions on in the offseason.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Dec 3, 2010 8:27 AM PST up reply actions  

LOLCubbies. What with the Rule 5 Draft and the recent MVP awards, it’s worth remembering that 3 years ago they actually had possession of Josh Hamilton for about 15 minutes and could have been using his production virtually for free the last few seasons. Instead they placed his value at $50,000 in cash considerations.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!

by Roger on Nov 30, 2010 7:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Isn't Hamilton an extreme case though

All his other issues make him a guy who I could see a lot of teams giving up on

The thong is, it happened.

by Goofus on Dec 2, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Hamilton’s a sui generis. But Cubbie-could-a-beens are a dime a dozen. And they amuse me because I was never terribly impressed with Cubs fans when I lived there.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!

by Roger on Dec 2, 2010 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

There’s definitely some interesting names on that list. And I really like Friday at #1. In the end, however, I’d guess the Giants don’t select anybody this year due to the 40 man crunch. They’re at 38 now; if Uribe accepts arbitration on Tuesday that makes 39, and even if he doesn’t the need to replace him makes the 39th position a bit of a moot point. That means that anybody they select in Rule 5 will necessitate cutting loose somebody they’ve already made the decision in the last week that they’d prefer to keep (ie, Hinshaw). Not necessarily the day of the draft, but before you make it to ST anyway. They’d have to really really like somebody to make the Rule 5 call with the 40 man crunch they’ve got currently.

Out of our system, I also think there’s a chance Wilmin Rodriguez could be picked by somebody.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!

by Roger on Nov 28, 2010 9:37 AM PST reply actions  

re; 40 man

But is DeRosa still has jelly wrists out of spring training ( I know extreame long shot here) there is your open spot, no?

The Giants are 2010 World Series Champs. … And in other news the forecast calls for a rain of toads, heavy at times, with moderate to strong swarms of locust and a high likelihood of a world quake. Details at 11.

by daveinexile on Nov 28, 2010 9:40 AM PST up reply actions  

You have to put a Rule 5 player on your 40 man when you draft them. If Uribe were to accept arbitration and they select a player in the Rule 5 that’s a full 40 players on the 40 man. That would mean that any player they acquire the rest of the winter via signing or trade would require that somebody be waived from the 40 man before the transaction could be completed.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!

by Roger on Nov 28, 2010 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

So then the equation is Rule V guy 2011,12,13 > Ishi 2010,11,12,13.

That is an intresting lens to look at these players though.

The Giants are 2010 World Series Champs. … And in other news the forecast calls for a rain of toads, heavy at times, with moderate to strong swarms of locust and a high likelihood of a world quake. Details at 11.

by daveinexile on Nov 28, 2010 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Or you can look at it this way. Typically you pay 50k for a Rule 5 guy and then at some point in ST end up offering the player back for 25k. Say we take a player in the draft, and then subsequently release say Alex Hinshaw. Then when we give that player back later in ST we would have essentially paid $25k to get rid of Hinshaw.

In the case of somebody like Friday, they would not only have to have a pretty good feeling that he’d stick on the team, but they’d have to be able to make the decision that they’d rather have him on the roster than Burriss or Rohlinger, and are ok with making that almost a one to one trade, so that you acquire Friday and release Rohlinger for instance.

In any case, depending on Uribe’s decision on Tuesday, we’re one roster space away from the point at which any major league player acquisition this winter must be accompanied by a corresponding de-acquisition from the 40 man, so any move we make has to have that degree of forethought to them.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!

by Roger on Nov 28, 2010 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I really, really hope the Giants aren’t making decisions based on whether or not they will have that $25K. Because if $25K is that important to them, then there’s just about zero chance Uribe comes back.

Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.

Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Nov 28, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Well my point wasn’t the 25k they’d be paying as an inhibiting factor, its the loss of their own players for less than nothing. That they’d be paying to get rid of players they’ve already invested time, money, and training in. There’s a touch of foolhardiness in that. Clubs value inventory and they don’t generally cut it loose lightly. Well in excess of 90% of all Rule 5 draftees do not end up with the club that takes them, which means sacrificing a player of your own in the deal is short-sighted unless you really really believe this is a player that’s going to stick on and upgrade your roster, and if such a guy is available, he’s likely not making it down to us.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!

by Roger on Nov 29, 2010 6:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but whether Hinshaw stays or goes should be based on his merit, and since they went out and got Lopez after not having a lefty reliever for awhile, they clearly don’t think much of him. They should be judging potential picks based on whether they’re worth the spot over Hinshaw, which has nothing to do with the $25K they’d lose if they picked someone and gave him back and had to DFA Hinshaw. I just don’t think the money should enter into it at all, since it’s such a low sum in baseball terms, so it should be:

Or you can look at it this way. Typically you get a Rule 5 guy and then at some point in ST end up offering the player back. Say we take a player in the draft, and then subsequently release say Alex Hinshaw. Then when we give that player back later in ST we would have essentially gotten rid of Hinshaw.

It’s really a small point anyway, so there’s no reason to belabor it, especially when Uribe’s not coming back anyway so there’s a good chance we can grab someone, since the best way to get a SS is now via trade and we’d probably end up parting with someone on the 40 man.

Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.

Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Nov 29, 2010 4:40 PM PST up reply actions  

A bit OT

I can’t believe that they didn’t dump HInshaw and protect Paterson. IMO Paterson has a better future as a LOOGY than Hinshaw. It’s also curious that they showcased Paterson in the AFL, only to leave him unprotected. It’s not like he stunk it up in the AFL.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Nov 29, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

Why on earth is Hinshaw still there?

"Today, it's as if McCovey's line drive finally went through. And the earthquake didn't happen. And Spiezio struck out. And Snow was safe."

by Ceora on Nov 30, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Standard rule of thumb: it’s easier to get a pitcher with velocity to control the strikezone than it is to get a pitcher with command to increase their velocity.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!

by Roger on Nov 30, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Absolutely

But Hinshaw’s 27. His strikeout rate has started to decline with no decrease in walks. If he develops into a quality ML pitcher, I’d rather it be with someone else because I don’t want him on the 40 man anymore. Let another team take the chance; we don’t need him, and it sure as hell doesn’t seem like he’s going anywhere.

Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.

Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Nov 30, 2010 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree. Just presenting what I assume is the org’s reasons for wanting to keep him. I keep thinking he should be the one to go when they’ve needed to clear room on the 40 man and he keeps not being It. Especially when they let Matt Downs go.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!

by Roger on Nov 30, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Some spots could open up Tuesday, right? (Ray, Ramirez, Fontenot)

Thing A

"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud

by sam23 on Nov 28, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Rosterbation porn I can get into!

Great to see this. Many thanks for putting this together.

/ puts sock on door knob and happily wanders over to B-R

The Giants are 2010 World Series Champs. … And in other news the forecast calls for a rain of toads, heavy at times, with moderate to strong swarms of locust and a high likelihood of a world quake. Details at 11.

by daveinexile on Nov 28, 2010 9:41 AM PST reply actions  

I am no prospect hound

but the Giants should probably grab about 3 SSs.

Brian Sabean: Sing His Praises To The Heavens!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game that seems to have resurrected itself in my absence...

by zenbitz on Nov 28, 2010 10:22 AM PST reply actions  

Well, like I said above, they don’t have three available slots on the 40 man to put three SSs, and anybody taken in the major league portion of the Rule 5 draft must be placed on the 40 man immediately.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!

by Roger on Nov 28, 2010 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

But

If they pick up a SS, can’t they just option Manny Burriss back to the minors? The same would be true of Hinshaw and a LH reliever. It seems pretty obvious that no one either inside or outside of the Giants organization thinks Burriss is the answer, so it may come down to protecting Burriss in case neither Friday or Lucas is available, and if they are you run the risk of losing Burriss, which isn’t too risky since everyone knows he’s not the answer anyway.

"I signed up for this job, the day I was born" - Brian Wilson, Ninja

by Giant Torture on Nov 29, 2010 9:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Also, also

It’s not a given that everyone is going to be offered arbitration (Hello Mike Fontenot), so that could potentially open up additional room on the 40 man roster.

"I signed up for this job, the day I was born" - Brian Wilson, Ninja

by Giant Torture on Nov 29, 2010 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Option someone to the minors keeps them on the 40 man. You have to cut them to make room, and I am all for cutting Burriss.

Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly

by say hey nation on Nov 29, 2010 9:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Thanks

That’s what I meant, obviously he’d have to clear waivers to make it back to Fresno, but that’s a risk I think they’d be willing to take.

"I signed up for this job, the day I was born" - Brian Wilson, Ninja

by Giant Torture on Nov 29, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

I believe he's out of options

"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks

by Gobroks on Nov 29, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes

Hence,

you run the risk of losing Burriss,

"I signed up for this job, the day I was born" - Brian Wilson, Ninja

by Giant Torture on Nov 29, 2010 7:21 PM PST up reply actions  

If they take someone, it will probably be a middle infielder

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare

by jponry on Nov 28, 2010 10:36 AM PST reply actions  

yep there is no clear backup SS or 2B, tho we still have Fontenot on the 40.
Henry Sosa has sure been on the 40 a long time. Live arm and promise…
You could make a good case that Ishikawa is redundant as Belt emerges, likewise Whiteside, despite the occasional dinger, could be replaced by Holm or Jackson Williams.
 did we get Jose Castilla this way? Or as a free agent?

proud, yes I said proud, adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez--
more game changing bunts than Buster Posey!
a World Champions San Francisco Giant of 2010!

by foothillsfan on Nov 28, 2010 10:47 AM PST reply actions  

Nice call on Whiteside.

 It is not like the Giants need to fill 100 + games at C next year.
so Whiteside >Ishi or Whiteside < Ishi over say the next 3 seasons? I would say the first.

The Giants are 2010 World Series Champs. … And in other news the forecast calls for a rain of toads, heavy at times, with moderate to strong swarms of locust and a high likelihood of a world quake. Details at 11.

by daveinexile on Nov 28, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

I believe Casilla was an international FA

"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks

by Gobroks on Nov 28, 2010 3:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't understand why Paterson wasn't added to the 40-man roster

While Velez is still on there…

As for who the Giants should draft, I’ll take SS Josh Horton of the A’s. Good defender and a little upside with the bat.

by TBRMKane on Nov 28, 2010 10:52 AM PST reply actions  

What a list

Nice work man. I am surprised to see some of the talent available. Granted, I have no idea how their stats will translate into the Majors…and I don’t know if anyone’s asked this but which pick does the Giants have for Rule 5?

There's a First for Everything:
Edgar Renteria, The First World Series MVP in Giants History.

by Unitard on Nov 28, 2010 12:12 PM PST reply actions  

Well, let’s see… The Giants were the last team standing at the end of the year, so my guess is that they are the last team picking in the draft(s).

"(Christy) Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball. The first statement means the same as the second." - Damon Runyon

by Lyle on Nov 29, 2010 9:44 AM PST up reply actions  

I believe 26th

Same as the amateur draft order

"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks

by Gobroks on Nov 29, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

How soon they forget

The Giants won the World Series – they draft last in each round (normally the 30th pick if there are no comp picks in a given round).

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Nov 29, 2010 2:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually 29th per MLBTR-

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/reversestandings/

"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks

by Gobroks on Nov 29, 2010 3:07 PM PST up reply actions  

29th out of 33 that is

"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks

by Gobroks on Nov 29, 2010 3:07 PM PST up reply actions  

My bad

Apparently the rules changed after the 2007 season. Beginning with the 2008 draft the World Series champ did not pick last in each round. Prior to that they did – no matter what their record was in the regular season. I must have been sleeping the last 3 drafts – or I just didn’t pay close attention since the Giants were drafting #5 in 2008, #6 in 2009 and #24 in 2010.

I can’t believe they made the rule change. How can they justify that a team that won it all should get to pick before teams that they beat just because they had a worse regular season record? They must be the only major sport that does this. Oh well, all the better for the Giants, they get to pick 5th team from the end in each round.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Nov 29, 2010 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Wikipedia sez Gobroks is right; it’s just the reverse standings like in the Rule 4 draft.

Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.

Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Nov 29, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t trust wikipedia on these like this, but yeah, you’re right as I posted above they changed the rules befor the 2008 season.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Nov 29, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

If you can’t trust Wikipedia to settle a completely inconsequential question on a fansite then when can you trust Wikipedia?

Personally, I get that the fact that anyone can edit it leaves it open for abuse, but I don’t think I’ve ever read anything that I knew to be incorrect on Wikipedia. It gets a lot of unreliability hate that it doesn’t deserve, and it’s far more navigable and useful than pretty much every other resource out there. I mean, the second best option is pretty much Yahoo Answers.

Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.

Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Nov 29, 2010 6:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I hate to burst your bubble

OK, I don’t really hate to. Here’s an prime example of wikipedia getting it wrong – on a similar baseball question.

Wikipedia – Rule 5 Draft entry

Money quote:

Players are eligible for selection in the Rule 5 draft who are not on their major league organization’s 40-man roster and:
– were signed at age 19 or older and have been in the organization for four years; or
– were signed at age 18 or younger and have been in the organization for five years.

 
There are 2 huge errors in this:
1. It’s not the age you are when you sign your contract, it’s the age you were on the most recent June 5th. That’s the date that determines the 18/19 year old cutoff.

2. It’s not the number of “years” that you’ve been in the organization, it’s the number of seasons you’ve been in the org that counts. As long as you sign your contract anytime before the minor league season officially ends (usually at the end of September) then you are deemed to have “played” 1 season (even if you never were even assigned to a roster). For example, one prospect signs at the age of 17 on September 20th, while another signs at the age of 20 on Oct. 10 (20 days later). The first player will have been deemed to have used up 1 season, whle the 2nd player will not be deemed to have finished his first season until October of the following year. Because of that, both players will be eligible for the Rule 5 draft in the 5th December after the day that they signed – even though one was below the 18 year old deadline and the other is over the deadline when they signed.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Nov 29, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Great work, of course

But I wouldn’t be surprised if the Giants just didn’t pick up anyone in rule 5 this year. They drafted, what, like one guy last season in rule 5?

My Son
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.

by GiantPain on Nov 28, 2010 1:26 PM PST reply actions  

Steven Johnson

Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.

Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Nov 28, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Awesome work here. I could see them picking up an infielder and non-tendering Fontenot, which would probably get the same production and hopefully a decent backup SS options, with a chance to challenge for a starting spot.

So when is the minor league Rule V top 20 list coming out? I joke, I joke.

by Fresburg on Nov 28, 2010 2:12 PM PST reply actions  

I’m not familiar with any of these potential Rule V guys, but I’d be surprised if any of them could provide the same production as Fontenot would. I get that Fontenot’s defense at shortstop and 3B leaves something to be desired, but he plays very good D at 2B and a career .270/.337/.411 line is very good for a backup middle infielder. His lefty bat that plays very well against RHP makes him a very good fit for a team with a 33 year old, injury prone 2B who doesn’t hit righties particularly well anyway. I understand that if your starting shortstop is a guy like Juan Uribe who can play all over the infield and you’ve got question marks with the two guys most likely to get the bulk of the playing time at 3B next season then it makes more a lot of sense for your backup middle infielder to be more than adept defensively at SS. But since Uribe isn’t currently on the roster nor is there an in house slick fielding backup shortstop option (unless you want Crawford playing a backup role on the big league club) I don’t think it makes any sense to non-tender Fontenot. Sure you could probably save 500-700K by replacing him with a rule V guy, but I’ll be disappointed if we’re looking to save that kind of money by downgrading our bench like that the year after we win it all.

Thing A

"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud

by sam23 on Nov 28, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Fontenot stands to make around $1.5M in arbitration next year. The Giants are already butting up against payroll limitations, and probably even more so with Huff’s new contract. It’s not ridiculous to suggest that Fontenot (and others) will be dumped in favor of someone making the league minimum, even if we’re only saving a million to do it, just because payroll is likely very tight already.

Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.

Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)

by quincy0191 on Nov 28, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought he was in line for something more like 1 mil, but I still think I’d tender him. Even at 1.5 mil its not like he’d be all that difficult to trade for a low level prospect and salary relief.

Thing A

"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud

by sam23 on Nov 28, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess we know what we have in Fontenot: a back up second baseman. That’s his ceiling for us. That’s all fine if you have a need at back up 2B, especially on the cheap. But the Giants already have Sanchez and DeRosa.

Even if Uribe comes back, it would be nice to have a decent SS option on the roster who can handle the bat as well as play D—Fontenot is not that person, and neither is Burriss if you had him in mind. And any of the discussed SS on this thread could provide as much upside or more than what Fontenot already is.

by Fresburg on Nov 28, 2010 6:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Reading BA’s Rule 5 Preview, Emaus really sounds like a bit of a Brock Bond with more power. His scouting report says “defense at both second and third if below average”, and “he’s a well below-average runner”. He “controls the strike zone well” but his SLG is greatly affected by Las Vegas’ Cashman Field, where he hit 9 of his career high 15 HRs last year. Sounds like a Pass to me.

Friday isn’t listed on their Position Players to Watch, or even in the “Other Players who may get a look” paragraph.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!

by Roger on Nov 30, 2010 8:00 AM PST reply actions  

I like Friday

But I don’t think anyone will take a chance on a guy with less than a full season at AAA, which is why I think Lucas is the most likely pick, although, I’m not even sure that Lucas will be eligible because I think it’s still fuzzy whether he meets the time within the organization requirements previously mentioned. However, Josh Hamilton, didn’t have enough time with the Cubs when he was picked up by the Reds, so I’m leaning towards that being accurate.

"I signed up for this job, the day I was born" - Brian Wilson, Ninja

by Giant Torture on Nov 30, 2010 8:37 AM PST up reply actions  

But I don’t think anyone will take a chance on a guy with less than a full season at AAA

That’s not really true. Everth Cabrera had never even appeared in AA, much less AAA, when he was picked by the Padres and ended up sticking. In fact, the year before he was drafted he had spent the entire year in the Sally at Low A. But I’m guessing that the big difference between someone like Cabrera (or even Ehire Adrianza, who the Giants felt the need to protect this year, rightly so) and someone like Friday is the scouts’ view of his defense. Friday being left exposed to Rule 5 makes me suspect his org views his D as “stop gap level” rather than “major league starter” level.

Also, you got Hamilton’s history mixed up. The Reds didn’t pick him from the Cubs. The Cubs selected him in the Rule 5 draft from the Rays, and then traded him to Cincinnati in a prearranged deal for cash considerations. At that point he had been, I guess, theoretically elibile for the Rule 5 draft for several years (as he first signed in 1999), but since he’d been out of baseball and under suspension for the three seasons prior to 2006, obviously he wasn’t exactly a hot item.

MY DAD WAS WRONG!

by Roger on Nov 30, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Thanks

That’s kind of what I meant regarding Friday, if the the straw hats thought his D was ready he would have been protected, but they must think that there is some hole in his game that will be evident to other clubs as a reason to not protect a SS in a year in which the SS market is very very thin.

Thanks for clearing up that Hamilton history for me, and to me that would seem to make me even less sure that Lucas would be available given that doesn’t meet the one year within the organization requirement.

"I signed up for this job, the day I was born" - Brian Wilson, Ninja

by Giant Torture on Nov 30, 2010 9:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, I just read that too

Quite a different list. I still think Aneury Rodriguez is a bit overrated

"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks

by Gobroks on Nov 30, 2010 10:27 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Hamburger

He wasn’t released, he was actually traded for Eddie Guardado.

Long time lurker, new time poster.

by Lionsroar10 on Dec 2, 2010 12:15 PM PST reply actions  

Ah, thanks.

Will update.

"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks

by Gobroks on Dec 2, 2010 7:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about San Francisco Giants.
Yahoo_full_count

Manager

174246766_ea2fd78204_small Grant Brisbee

Moderators

Sbzito_small Natto

Fawlty_small WalrusMan

Goofus_small Goofus

Howtheyscoredcat_small howtheyscored

Det_7193_small jponry

Authors

09_small JT Jordan

Small steve S

E6dmccicon_small Every6thDay