Strangely Anticlimactic
by Fla-Giant on Nov 2, 2010 2:01 PM PDT
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, but I expected way more torture than this if the SF Giants were ever going to win their 1st World Championship. The ease of the last 2 wins took some of the edge off for me - maybe I'm just still in shock. Hell, even Brian Wilson didn't add any drama in closing out both games with ease - not allowing a single baserunner or anything close to an edge-of-your-seat moment, while setting down the Rangers 1-2-3 in both games. As a rabid and long-sufferring Giants fan since 1968, I anxiously expected this series to go the full 7 games with the Giants building my hopes up and then dashing them for the entire ride - even after they went up 2-0 after the first 2 games. I think that it's going to take a long while for the enormity of it all to sink in.
Strangely enough, I think the vast majority of the players and coaches had a similar reaction. To me, they seemed stunned at the easy capitulation of the Rangers' fabled offense, and they weren't sure how to react. The funniest, and most bizarre, moment to me was when Timmy tried to give the trophy back to the Fox announcer after he was interviewed on national TV. The announcer had to tell him it belonged to the Giants now and that he should take it into the dressing room.
Quick thoughts.
- I feel sorry for Eli Whiteside. He was on the roster for all 3 postseason series, but did not get in a single game - not even to pinch-run for Buster (LOL). It will most likely be Whiteside's only chance to ever be in a WS game in his whole career. I'll repeat what I wrote a few days ago, Bochy really blew it when he neglected to put Eli in for Buster in the top of the 9th inning of Game 2 after the Giants had scored 7 runs to go up 9-0.
- all 3 runs that the Giants scored in the clincher came with 2 outs, and 4 of the 9 runs that they scored during the 3 games in Texas came with 2 outs. That means that for the entire postseason the Giants scored 34 of their 59 runs after 2 outs - for a 57% mark. That's the definition of clutch - and the total opposite of what the Giants did in the regular season when they were the worst team in baseball in terms of 2 out runs scored.
- the Giants had a huge churn in their roster between opening day and Game 5 - something you almost never see in a World Championship team. Believe it or nor, the following players should all be receiving WSC rings and some extra $$$ in their next paychecks:
Denny Bautista, John Bowker, Manny Burriss, Mark DeRosa, Matt Downs, Darren Ford, Waldis Joaquin, Joe Martinez, Brandon Medders, Ryan Rohlinger, Eugenio Velez, Todd Wellemeyer, and Jose Guillen
- the worst thing about the Giants winning the title is that now Bochy is guaranteed at least 2 more years of being manager. I know he got high praise for his moves in the postseason, but I don't think that out-coaching Bobby Cox (only in the postseason), Charlie Manuel, and Ron Washington is that great of an achievement. It certainly doesn't tell me that he's going to see the light and all of a sudden consistently put out the best lineups next year and beyond. Let's not forget that Bochy was the guy that played Jose Guillen over Cody Ross in RF for 90% of the month of Sept., and Bengie over Buster at C for 95% of June. He also admitted recently that the only reason that he left Guillen off the playoff roster was that his neck was hurting him - which hurt his output somewhat during the end of Sept.
- the 2nd worst thing about winning the title is that we can no longer whine about how unlucky and put-upon a franchise we are - for at least another decade.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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An American dilemma
The sick perversion of rosterbation and belief that fans know more than the experienced staff is already sweeping the Bay Area. What is to be done with the loss of moral fibre in today’s modern world?
"It's too LATE to stop now!" - John Lee Hooker
- the 2nd worst thing about winning the title is that we can no longer whine about how unlucky and put-upon a franchise we are – for at least another decade.
No, that is the BEST thing.
This is like the way the Red Sox finally ended their drought: a desperate and dramatic LCS followed by a relatively easy World Series. Boston fans didn’t care about how easily they dispatched the Cardinals, and Giants fans shouldn’t care about how easily the Rangers went down.
I feel similarly
When Juan Uribe hit a three-run homer in Game 1 I started giggling and jumping up and down. When they clinched, it was much more low-key. This seems wrong.
Personally, I think a lot of it is that the Giants are defined by second place; nearly always good enough to get close, never good enough to go all the way. After spending half my life living with those Giants, it’s impossible to turn that perception around in a night. Eventually I’ll get to the OMFG THE GIANTS WON, and I am kinda there already (I want to be happy, and I’m acting like I am, which is only partially true; the rest of me hasn’t weighed in yet), but I feel like it’ll take a few months of hearing “San Francisco Giants, 2010 World Champions”.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to do that (TM)
“Eventually I’ll get to the OMFG THE GIANTS WON, and I am kinda there already (I want to be happy, and I’m acting like I am, which is only partially true; the rest of me hasn’t weighed in yet), but I feel like it’ll take a few months of hearing "San Francisco Giants, 2010 World Champions".”
This is right where my head is at, too. But what helps me feel it a little more deeply — as I feel I should — is to listen to the radio calls of the big moments from last night. Especially, Dave Flemming’s call of Renteria’s HR. The way his voice cracks with excitement reminds me of just how much pent-up emotion was released last night.
It’s only natural when that much emotion and desire leaves your body for you to feel at least a smidge of emptiness, but there’s a great cure: an off-season of knowing your team is the world champs followed by a springtime flag-raising and ring ceremony at the home opener.
"This is a street fight, and we win those." -- BRIAN SABEAN, 10/23/10
by Josh from Hollywood on Nov 2, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you working on the script yet, Josh?
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Yeah, it’s called FEVER PITCH 2: THE WRATH OF THONG.
"This is a street fight, and we win those." -- BRIAN SABEAN, 10/23/10
by Josh from Hollywood on Nov 2, 2010 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions
The great thing about this team is it gives you tons of opportunities for dick jokes.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
This is too soon.
I’m sending you a champagne bottle in the mail. Please go out and enjoy.
He's not retired...THANK YOU!
Whiteside
I’m sure he’s fine. He’s going to get a $400,000+ playoff bonus and that’s a lot of scratch for a player making league minimum.
Yeah, let’s complain about Bochy the day after he did what no other manager in the history of the San Frnacisco Giants was able to do.
The thong is, it happened.
That’s just the attitude that I’m afraid of. The magical penumbra of the championship will blind many to the harsh reality. Bochy didn’t “do” anything to win the ring – the players did. All Bochy did was to avoid making things difficult for his playiers to win like Ron Washington did to the Rangers. If we’re going to make this more than a 1-time triumph in the next 56 years, we need to get better. Bochy has not all of a sudden become a master strategist. Next year, and beyond, he will make the same frustratingly bad decisions that he’s made throughout his tenure in SF. We most likely will only have this core of 4 great starting pitchers and 2 great relievers together for the next 2 or 3 years and I hate it that Bochy is know almost sure to be at the helm for all of that time.
With the players that Bochy had available to him beginning in June, the Giants should have won the division by at least 5 games, and clinched well before the last day of the regular season, but Bochy doggedly refused to put his best lineup on the field for more than a dozen or so games in the last 4 months of the season. Yes, I give great credit to Bochy for fostering a clubhouse environment for the players to thrive in. However, one can’t deny that it was guys like Huff, Burrell, Cain, and Uribe that really created the beneficial atmosphere of the clubhouse, and provided the examples and mentoring for the young guys to follow. Bochy just didn’t get in their way.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
Unlike you, I put some stock in what his players said about him
To a man, I’ve heard nothing but compliments all season about his managing from his players.
The thong is, it happened.
I'm going to make the same point I've made about Boch all season.
Bochy didn’t "do" anything to win the ring – the players did. All Bochy did was to avoid making things difficult for his playiers to win like Ron Washington did to the Rangers
You can’t compare a person to some some Platonic ideal of perfection, you have to compare him to his peers. And, for whatever reason, and the mere fact that Bochy avoided making things difficult for his players makes him, puts him squarely in the upper echelon, if not at the pinnacle, of his profession.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Nov 2, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bochy didn’t "do" anything to win the ring – the players did. All Bochy did was to avoid making things difficult for his playiers to win
Clearly you didn’t hear the story about him pulling Aubrey Huff aside in August and asking him to work on his bunting because some time before the season was over he might be batting lower down in the order against a left hander and be asked to bunt.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
That scene is so going in the script.
"This is a street fight, and we win those." -- BRIAN SABEAN, 10/23/10
by Josh from Hollywood on Nov 2, 2010 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Bochy just didn’t get in their way.
You might want to consider the critical importance of a manager doing this.
2010 World Series Champions!
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 2, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
seriously
I’m not a big “managers are fungible” believer, but I believe that once May rolled around and Bochy had better players to choose from, he felt/needed less platoon/double switch/one pitcher one batter micromanagement. Ron Washington ran into some outs and kind of chose odd ways to use his bullpen, just as an example.
May 29, 2010: Steven Revetria takes over as Giants General Manager. The rest is history.
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"Oh no, he wanted me to do that. It was intentional." - Tim Lincecum
by natteringnabob on Nov 2, 2010 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions
This is EXACTLY why I'm ecstatic about Bochy's magaging this post-season. He got out of the way.
This is the highest and best managing possible. I will always believe that managers can harm a team far more than they can help it, and the best they can do is put their players in the best possible position to win.
Bochy did exactly that this post-season, and though I’ve ripped him severely for years, I have nothing but praise for his last two months.
"It feels awesome. Feels like when you were a kid and every guy gets a chance to be a hero, then you eat orange slices and kool-aid after the game. Except we’re nailing champagne right now." —Brian Wilson
"He just threw me a fastball in and I just put a good swing on the ball, and you know when you put a good swing on the ball, the ball go out."
-Egdar Renteria commenting on his solo home run in the 5th inning of Game 2.
by Sabean's_Folly on Nov 3, 2010 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh for God's sake
The “harsh reality” is that Bochy just guided this team to a World Series title, which has never happened before in San Francisco. Give the complaining a break for a day, and relax and enjoy the accomplishment!
Anticlimactic?
No, I think it worked out just fine. We have the hardware now. That is all.
Peep my Woody
It's actually beautiful how it worked out.
Tim Lincecum, our star ace and all-star in 2010 pitches 8 wonderful innings and then hands it off to our star closer and all-star in 2010 who shuts down the heart of the Rangers order 1-2-3.
Meanwhile, on the offensive side, the player who we named Edgar Diarrhea comes through in the most dramatic of fashions and hits a 3-run homerun.
Maybe not the most “exciting” thing in the world, but certainly sums up Giants baseball in the most beautiful way.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 2, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I wrote a fanpost a few days ago apologizing to Bochy.
I am not sure how it is even conceivable that he goes down as the best manager in the history of SF baseball. I had my problems with him, but the results are hard to argue with whatever the circumstances. However, I do think it is hard to overestimate how valuable his contribution was. Sure, Cox, Wash, et al. are no geniuses, but they sure had the better players. I think Boch deserves a hell of a lot of credit!
I disagree
99% of the credit goes to the players. I do give Bochy big credit for making very few bad decisions to make things harder on his players. Cox, Manuel and Washington all failed that test – Cox the very least amount, Washington the most, and Manuel in the middle. Still the players on the Phillies, Braves and Rangers are responsible for losing the games. If they were doing their jobs the moves of their managers would have had little effect on the outcomes.
Baseball is a harsh game. If you are going to thrive as an organization you have to be brutally honest in how you evaluate your players, coaches, and management. Bill Walsh was great at that. He rarely let the sentimentality that he felt towards a player or coach that might have been instrumental in helping to win a title, affect his decisions on what was best for the team going forward into the next season and beyond. If you want to build a dynasty, that’s what the Giants have to do, because they don’t have the money that the Yankees do to overcome many big mistakes.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
If it's such a low bar to outmanage Cox, Manuel, and Washington...
…and those are the managers who succeeded in getting their teams to the playoffs…then maybe the on-field aspects of managing just don’t matter that much.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
I think, although Bochy handles the lineup pretty badly, he is quite good with the pitchers overall. I am not optimistic that Sabean wouldn’t tempt Bochy by putting more gritty veteran hitters on the team though.
Proud adopted parent of the ball dudes, who have grounded into 109 fewer double plays than the Giants.
the ridiculous RISP
some say it’s luck, to get your hits like that rather than with bases empty.
Some would say it’s clutch. There was an awful long debate on a thread a couple weeks ago.
For me, today, now—the Giants’ gritty players feasted on pitchers who were losing their confidence. So I guess I fall on the side of clutch for a short series.
Great championship win! But we can’t count on that kind of clutch all the time. Need to find some steady, quality hitters to complement these ace starting pitchers. Need to find a 6th starter and reliablie middle relievers too. I guess Sabe will be trading for those “pieces” around July 2011.
proud, yes I said proud, adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez--
more game changing bunts than Buster Posey!
I think it's just because of perception.
The 2002 team IMO, should have stomped the Angels into submission and beat them in 4 or 5 games.
The fact that a seemingly inferior Giants team did it instead, sorta messes with my perception.
I didn’t know how to feel when the Giants finally won it last night.
I still don’t know exactly how I feel.
I just know that it’s a good feeling, and I’m slowly starting to understand the gravity of the situation.
I'm in this boat.
Not only has it not sunk in, I only think this is the third best Giants team of my lifetime (behind 2002 and 1993). I guess that’s just how baseball works.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
That's whats great about baseball
Everything resets for the next spring. Even the last place teams have hope in the spring and of course the possibility of injury makes no teams future totally secure. All I’ve ever hoped for the Giants is that they put a competitive team out onto the field more years then not. To still have hope into September is what I call a good year. Growing up in the 60s I know how placing second is a lot like kissing my sister, but it was enough most years to keep this fan loyal and hopeful. Now they have earned a World Championship and I am of course very happy about that, it was worth the wait and I saw a lot of good baseball games and players as I patiently waited for this season to happen. Thank you Giants.
I am optimistic that the longer Bochy has with his players, the better he will understand their talents and the more he will use them in the right situation. I mean, I just spent an entire month of watching him fill out rational and quality lineup cards, it’s hard to imagine him getting significantly worse with the same group heading into next year
Anti-climax
Yes and no. No because you actually have to go out and win the games. But also yes, and this has left me feeling like the 49ers dismantling the Chargers in the Super Bowl.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below .500
"You never wake up the baby." - E. Renteria, 01 August 2010
Lowering the Quality of Internet Discourse Since 1985™
No feeling of anticlimax here
I will acknowledge that we passed into the Twilight Zone when Wilson went 1-2-3 two nights in a row with so much torture opportunity at hand. But the ease of it all has spared me having to lug around deep feelings of gratitude to Brian McCann for supplying us with homefield advantage.
Stat nit-picking
The x% of runs with 2 outs sounds kind of impressive, but doesn’t it just make sense? Runs take a number of batters doing positive things to score; more batters means more chances to get outs; 2 out RISP situations should be more common than 0-1 out RISP situations; ergo more runs should be scored with 2 outs than other situations.
I have no clue what the historical data is on this, though.
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