So, Ryan Rohlinger.
by Lies and Perfidy on Nov 17, 2010 4:30 PM PST
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We're all kicking around this whole shortstop thing - sign Uribe, trade for Bartlett, trade for Scutaro, sell the farm for Nishioka, hope that Crawford develops. And it occurred to me that it has been basically a fuckzillion years since I thought about Ryan Rohlinger. His name has only come up a couple times in the shortstop discussion - what's the story?
What I know: he had a very brief showing in the majors this year, obviously too small a sample size to tell anything; he made all of one play at shortshop and collected 3 hits in 18 PAs. Looking at his AAA numbers, he hit well in 2010, to the tune of an .869 OPS with 23 doubles and 8 HRs in 325 PAs. Not exactly tearing things up, but certainly better than Crawford. It was, however, his best year in the minors, and fueled by a .367 BABIP. But I'm wondering if, combined with capable defense, he has a shot at being a capable major league bat next year.
Of course, I can't find anything about his defense in the minors this year. Was he even playing short? I don't recall who else in Fresno would have been. Anyway, any commentary on that would be much appreciated; at 27 and coming off his best year in the minors, this is probably Rohlinger's real shot at the majors. What am I missing out on that's kept his name out of consideration?
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Baseball Reference includes break down of games by positions played. Go to Rohlinger’s page and click on the Minors link and scroll down. He played 54 games at SS for Fresno last year, and 11 games the year before. Other than that, and prior to that, he’s always been a 3B. He’s an exceptional defensive 3B, I don’t know how his range plays at SS, but I’d guess he falls in the sort of Utility MI range of ability.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Rohlinger was drafted as a shortstop, but generally isn’t considered one ideally. I’d compare his upside as a shortstop to Mike Fontenot’s. He can handle it. Generally, he won’t be an embarrassment on balls he gets to, but he won’t get to as many balls as a true shortstop. He’s going to be average at best.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Check out the new look of SFDugout.com•
So defensively, he’s Fontenot with 3B as a prime spot instead of 2B. I guess, then, it’s just a question of how well his bat would play in the majors. I’d like to think he’s an option if Uribe’s too expensive, though that would consign us to another year of movable parts lineup.
It's Johnnie Walker inside.
by Lies and Perfidy on Nov 17, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
I agree he's an option...
…though he’s not going to be in contention for a starting spot with his poor major league performances so far.
That said, it’s between Rohlinger and Fontenot for the true utility spot right now, and that could give him the opportunities that Uribe had to become a starter in 2010.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Check out the new look of SFDugout.com•
by BruteSentiment on Nov 17, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
Rohlinger is supposed to be excellent at 2nd and 3rd, right?
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
I could quibble with the semantics…
But yes, definitely he is above-average or better at those positions. However, his strengths are more in his sure-handedness than range.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Check out the new look of SFDugout.com•
by BruteSentiment on Nov 17, 2010 7:58 PM PST up reply actions
I like to call him KevRyanMatt DownsRohlindsen.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 17, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
Kevattravyan Frandlingdownsker.
It's Johnnie Walker inside.
by Lies and Perfidy on Nov 17, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
nah, Denker was a hitter not a fielder prospect
proud, yes I said proud, adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez--
more game changing bunts than Buster Posey!
a World Champions San Francisco Giant of 2010!
by foothillsfan on Nov 18, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
Last year
Shortstops hit .266/.325/.388 across the league.
I think Rohlinger could do that.
My Son
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
But, most guys that hit that low have good range. Very important in a SS that isn’t going to hit 20+ HRs a la uribe.
That’s the average. It includes the shortstops with good range and the shortstops with bad range.
If Rohlinger can hit slightly above that line, he’s a viable option. I have my reservations, personally.
Rooting for Jose Casilla to take his K- and GB-inducing skills to the majors and join his brother.
I’m a fan. His MLE for 2010 indicates a basically average major league bat; 2009 + 2010 together says a little below average, but far from embarrassing. But, as a good defensive 3B, I’ve been thinking of him more as Pablo insurance.
If he can play SS at all, he might not be a worse option than a lot of the free agents.
With all the questions revolving around the left side of our infield, and since it looks like we’ll be playing musical chairs again…I certainly wouldn’t mind him being in the mix. Especially if we don’t get Uribe back.
"Today, it's as if McCovey's line drive finally went through. And the earthquake didn't happen. And Spiezio struck out. And Snow was safe."
YOU LEAVE MY BOY ALONE
HE’S A WORLD CHAMPION
Ryan Rohlinger lives in my basement. I let him out to play baseball.
.795 career minor league OPS
.869 OPS in AAA last year came playing in the PCL after turning 25 and due largely to a .364 BABIP
Borderline utility-man at best.
This.
I don’t put much stock into PCL numbers.
by BustaTheRippa on Nov 17, 2010 6:35 PM PST up reply actions
"I completely agree"
-Brian Sabean
Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees because he wants to win the World Series. Wait, what???
by rxmeister on Nov 17, 2010 6:46 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
He wasn't that far off with those statements, was he?
How many AAAA players hit like sluggers in that league? All he really said was it was tough to evaluate Posey’s batting. avg. in a league where for the most part, the pitching is terrible. Of course, his comments were misconstrued and everyone roasted the guy for it.
by BustaTheRippa on Nov 17, 2010 6:49 PM PST up reply actions
How would you rather we judge our AAA players
You don’t want us to use their numbers, so how do we determine these things? Ouija boards?
My Son
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
Don't be silly
Magic 8 balls are much more reliable. You can never tell when someone’s moving the thing with a ouija board.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
I never said that.
Of course the statistics are all fans like us have to use, unless of course you go to the games, but what I’m saying is that a good line in the PCL isn’t something to get giddy about when it pertains to their ML future.
See: Todd Linden, Jesus Guzman, John Bowker, and many more.
by BustaTheRippa on Nov 17, 2010 7:14 PM PST up reply actions
Guzman had 20 ABs in the major leagues. His not being on a ML roster has nothing to do with his bat.
Bowker arguably got his chance, but the good people in Pittsburgh aren’t convinced yet.
Todd Linden sucked.
You’re right, we should be cautious about getting excited by PCL numbers, but I’m not sure those are the best examples.
by Monkeyking42 on Nov 17, 2010 11:40 PM PST up reply actions
You’re right, we should be cautious about getting excited by PCL numbers
Ryan Rohlinger lives in my basement. I let him out to play baseball.
You’re right, weshould be cautious about getting excited byproperly adjust PCL numbers for context
Brian Sabean: Sing His Praises To The Heavens!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game that seems to have resurrected itself in my absence...
What did you say about
Tony Torcato?
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I didn't choose to be a Giants fan, I was born into it. November 1, 2010 World Champions.
Bold career move
He fought the Bonds
And the
Bonds won…
by KrazyKrabMeat on Nov 18, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
Because it was a stupid thing to say
The pitching in AAA isn’t terrible, it’s fine, and better than AA, that’s why it’s a higher level. Better players go there. Some players in AA are certainly better than some in AAA, particularly top prospects, but some players in AAA are better than some players in the majors, and the majors are better than AAA overall.
With proper context, AAA provides better evaluation than AA. Of course, if you want to look at context-free numbers, then it is possible putting up an .800 OPS in Richmond is better than an .850 OPS in Fresno, but your analysis is flawed from the start, so who cares.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Did Sabean say that AA pitching was better than AAA?
No, I don’t think he did. Nice job putting words into his mouth though.
by BustaTheRippa on Nov 17, 2010 7:16 PM PST up reply actions
Triple-A baseball isn’t very good," he said. "I’m going to tell you that right now. Especially from a pitching standpoint. Anybody who can pitch is in the big leagues. Most of the prospect arms, the stuff that really can neutralize hitters, are at Double-A. You look at what some of our (struggling hitting) prospects are doing there.
That’s him saying that AA pitching is better than AAA. He said that Triple-A pitching isn’t very good, and specifically called AA as the level at which “the stuff that really can neutralize hitters” appears. And if Sabean doesn’t realize that Conor Gillaspie isn’t a great prospect, that Nick Noonan can’t hit (yet…I hope), or that Brandon Crawford has some development work to do, leaving the big prospect in AA as Neal (who put up pretty good numbers) or that Richmond is a terrible hitter’s park, then he’s bad at his job. Richmond deflates batting stats, and given that, the numbers of a lot of the guys who are playing there aren’t that bad. And the reason that so many AAAA players look great in AAA is because they’re older and because they’re playing in the PCL (which inflates stats). The AA hitters aren’t hitting as well as the AAA hitters because they’re younger and have a worse home park, not because the pitching is better.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Am I missing something?
He says most of the prospect arms are at AA, compared with AAA where the majority of pitching is journeymen with lackluster stuff but more experienced and smarter.
You are taking his comment of “the stuff is better at AA” and assuming that he means the “pitching” is better. “Stuff” and “overall pitching” are 2 very different things, and you’re once again taking his comments out of context because you still hate him vigorously.
by BustaTheRippa on Nov 17, 2010 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
I have to agree with Busta about what Sabean meant. One ought to figure that it’s best to construe statements so that they make the most reasonable sense, unless the speaker is an imbecile, a person distracted or highly emotional, or a member of Congress. Sabean has by now—as opposed, maybe, to the time when he made this statement, last spring—earned the right to be construed as speaking reasonably. If “anybody who can pitch is in the big leagues,” what do minor league pitchers lack? It seems pretty plausible that raw, maybe wild, pitchers with great stuff are working out their problems in AA, while journeyman with more craft, control, and command—those whom the big league club might call up in the middle of the season to fill bullpen holes—are in AAA.
Some of this is plausible
But it doesn’t explain why he said “Triple-A baseball isn’t very good.” I’m not sure there’s a way to slice it that has AA coming out ahead of AAA; maybe the guys with better stuff are in AA, but there are also plenty of guys with great stuff in AAA that are on their way to the bigs. Most prospects don’t skip AAA.
So, then, AAA should contain the better versions of top prospect AA pitchers; guys who have shown they can succeed at the AA level and thus have earned a promotion. They likely have better offspeed stuff and control. AAA also contains the Quad-A players, those who aren’t good enough to be ML regulars but do well against AAA competition. These players are also likely better than most pitchers in AA, otherwise they would be in AA. I don’t see where AA is better than AAA.
And I don’t think Sabean’s earned the right to be construed as speaking reasonably. He made some great moves this summer, and the Giants won the World Series. That is huge. But it doesn’t make up for a decade of terrible decisions in principle, since the process should be analyzed based on logic and results, and only recently have those things been positive; in practice, I don’t care how many bad moves he made, we won the World Series.
Ain't no Posey like a Buster Posey cause a Buster Posey don't stop...hitting.
Giants baseball: We're stupid enough to WIN that (TM)
Pretty much nailed it
I still don’t think Sabean is a very good GM, but I no longer care deeply about the matter.
THE THING IS, IT HAPPENED - 11/1/10
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Nov 18, 2010 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
LOL
One ought to figure that it’s best to construe statements so that they make the most reasonable sense, unless the speaker is an imbecile, a person distracted or highly emotional, or a member of Congress.
This gave me a good laugh.
Rooting for Jose Casilla to take his K- and GB-inducing skills to the majors and join his brother.
interestingly
it’s also tough to evaluate batting average going forward from MAJOR LEAGUE stats. Especially for young players without much history.
Brian Sabean: Sing His Praises To The Heavens!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game that seems to have resurrected itself in my absence...
Last resort starter or platoon mate starter with Fontenot
Sabean, please do better
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Yeah, I don’t think you can start the season with Rohlinger at SS. That’s a doomed beginning for any team.
Ask me about my blog.
Also, don’t start the season with John Bowker in RF, Aaron Rowand in CF, or Bengie Molina at C. That’s a doomed beginning for any team.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
He is, but he's not very good
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
It may be that Rohlly is let go in the next few days. With the Rule 5 coming up (rosters are due Nov. 20 I think), I think there’s a good chance that Edlefson or Paterson still get added to the 40 man roster. I’m guessing Pill, Rohlinger, Valez, Joaquin and Hinshaw are all on the bubble.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Nov 18, 2010 6:50 AM PST reply actions
I doubt it. Historically they do their 40 man additions in one fell swoop. They make their org decision and then do it. People get dropped one at a time as needs pop up, but they tend to get added as a group. Also, while I think Edlefson and Paterson could well get grabbed the organization probably views IF depth as a more scarce resource right now than bullpen depth and probably views both relievers as unlikely to make somebody’s 25 man, so that either they or another player will ultimately be offered back.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Funny you should mention this...
I found this youtube clip the other day of him playing shortstop and some scout-type guy breaking down his defensive strengths and weaknesses. From watching this, I think he might have a chance to stick as a major league SS. He’s no Omar, but reminds me more of an Aurilia
The thong is, it happened.
That’s sort of like the defensive Jeff Kent comps for Culberson, etc. If you’re going to field like Aurilia, you’d better hit like Aurilia.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I don't know...
It’s somewhat small sample size… But Aurilia’s career UZR at SS (about 3,400 innings) is 14.4.
I specifically remember his problem was mostly sure-handedness and a sometimes erradic arm (I could be wrong, I was pretty young back then).
But range didn’t seem to be his problem.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 18, 2010 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
I'd say his range was ok
But he always looked heavy-footed for a SS. He relied on good positioning, good technique and being “smart” out there, as opposed to relying on his athleticsm.
The thong is, it happened.
Well, how well did Aurilia hit?
With the Giants, before his fall-off (so I’m taking his seasons until age 31), this is his batting line:
.278/.331/.444 103 OPS+
Rohlinger’s MLE from last year exceeds that. If one believes that Rohlinger can replicate that line consistently, then yes, he is a reasonable comparison to Aurilia.
Rooting for Jose Casilla to take his K- and GB-inducing skills to the majors and join his brother.
Is Rohlinger rule 5 eligible? That would be a tough way to lose him, since we have potential roster gaps at 3B and short.
On the other foot, maybe Sabe has his eye on siging another orgs’ infielder via rule 5.
I’m the contrary view here. Go cheap for now at short and left field. See what develops with Pablo, deRosa, Crawford, Ross. Then swoop midseason if needed.
proud, yes I said proud, adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez--
more game changing bunts than Buster Posey!
a World Champions San Francisco Giant of 2010!
Brandon Crawford, I mean
proud, yes I said proud, adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez--
more game changing bunts than Buster Posey!
a World Champions San Francisco Giant of 2010!
by foothillsfan on Nov 18, 2010 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
Brandon Crawford is not eligible
He’s only been in the organization 3 years. They’d have to add him to the 40 man roster after next season to protect him.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
Intentional reply fail
That’s the first time I’ve ever been legitimately caught by that, Goofus. Well done.
I personally would love to see Rohlinger used as a utility man.
Dump Fontenot. Let him go back to the Cubs.
It’s time for Rohlinger’s shot IMO.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 18, 2010 11:12 AM PST reply actions
I could see the following situation
o Giants unable to resign Uribe (in a good way, like he gets 4/36 or something)
o Giants pass on other SS FAs – maybe pick up Isturez for cheap as a glove man – or Bocock Adrianza.
o Spend the $$ on 1B/RF/Relief upgrades
Go into 2011 with Rohlinger / Fontenot and defense-be-damned. We don’t have a lot of ground ball specialists anyway. Uribe has been just average at SS for the last few years now (when he was a spring chicken he was good)
Brian Sabean: Sing His Praises To The Heavens!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game that seems to have resurrected itself in my absence...
JJ Hardy
From MLBTR, where the Orioles are after him:
“Hardy is a non-tender candidate after a 2010 season in which he missed time with a bruised wrist and batted .268/.320/.394 in 375 plate appearances. The 28-year-old continued to play strong defense, according to UZR.”
He’s been a good hitter in the past, he plays good D to back up our pitchers, and the return to the NL might help. Shouldn’t be too expensive. What do you think?
Helping the Giants defense in their quest for the Fourth Out
I will be shocked if Hardy is non-tendered.
We should go after him if he is, but I doubt very much he will be.
My Son
Dursh nerf darsh narf. Poop.
I keep hearing he's a non-tender candidate
But I just don’t see it. He’s a valuable player, and even if the Twins didn’t intend to use him, it would take about 5 minutes to get a decent return on him in trade.
by Monkeyking42 on Nov 18, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
Never liked Jeff Hardy, though.
Still the father of two-time Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I disagree that Jeff got more chances than he deserved (unless you’re talking about his drug issues).
I agree Matt got the short end of the stick.
I really wanted to see Matt and Christian become the ‘Underappreciated Siblings’ tag team.
/off-topic
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Check out the new look of SFDugout.com•
by BruteSentiment on Nov 19, 2010 2:02 AM PST up reply actions
I hope Christian becomes a WHC someday
but sadly, I doubt it.
And no the WWECW champ does not count
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
Matt's been losing it recently
He got released from WWE after posting a bunch of videos on youtube where he looked high on something
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
I hope so
but there was talk that his act may have been part of the reason WWE banned SOMA’s
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
Hardy
is not available until he’s available.
Brian Sabean: Sing His Praises To The Heavens!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game that seems to have resurrected itself in my absence...
Until the box is opened
he’s in a quantum superposition of available and not-available.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
by EliminateMe on Nov 18, 2010 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
As it is for all of us, one half of a Hardy is all of a dead cat. Or something.
by Monkeyking42 on Nov 18, 2010 8:06 PM PST up reply actions
available or not,
Hardy is hardy and hearty
har har
proud, yes I said proud, adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez--
more game changing bunts than Buster Posey!
a World Champions San Francisco Giant of 2010!
by foothillsfan on Nov 18, 2010 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
Shouldn’t be too expensive.
Depends on what you mean exactly. We’d have to outbid the Orioles (who actually have more expendable young talent to trade), and the O’s aren’t the only team interested. The more teams in on the negotiations, the more expensive the deal gets.
I should clarify that I’m talking about expensive in terms of trading for him, which is what seems most likely to happen.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
The Orioles reportedly considered offering David Hernandez for Jason Bartlett
As best I can tell he’s like their version (but RH) Dan Runzler
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Follow me: Twitter.com/gobroks
I'm surprised the Orioles would be interested
It’s not like they’re contending anytime soon.
Rooting for Jose Casilla to take his K- and GB-inducing skills to the majors and join his brother.
Rohlinger is intriguing
He’s solid defensively at multiple positions and has decent gap power. I can’t see him spending another year at AAA so it would make sense for him to win a job in the majors as a utility guy. Its a longshot, but considering the available options at short, I could see him getting some at bats there in spring training and possibly hitting his way into the position if the Giants don’t sign anyone and decide to go with in house candidates. He has always been a solid prospect but has never really gotten much of a shot in SF, other than a few years ago when he was called up after only a few months at AA and wasn’t ready yet. At the very least, he provides quality depth at two positions where the Giants are unsettled.
Chris Gloor: my lefty is bigger than your lefty
by crazedcrustacean on Nov 18, 2010 3:17 PM PST reply actions
This has been my thought process on him; unfortunately, the “infield utility guy” role is likely to get filled by Fontenot, who is at least a known quantity. I hope he gets at least an ST shot to avoid the fate of the aforementioned Infield Prospect Hydra.
It's Johnnie Walker inside.
by Lies and Perfidy on Nov 18, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
I like Ry Rohl
Me thinks he could be a Ramon Martinez type of utility infielder for us at worst.
dude gamely played center field a few innings when there was an injury flurry.
Had clutchness, which means he got a key hit or 2 when I was watching / listening
proud, yes I said proud, adoptive papa of "Geno" Eugenio Velez--
more game changing bunts than Buster Posey!
a World Champions San Francisco Giant of 2010!
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