Should Barry Zito start a postseason game?

No
A thousand times no.

“Experience” was the trump card everybody was playing on Saturday, and we all saw how that turned out.

+A lot

/slams shut Spanish to English dictionary.

TWSS

I hope you’re right.

Even up 3-1, you don’t assume anything. I’d rather not lose a series 3-4 at least in part because Zito got a start. Maybe he’d be great. Maybe not. That maybe not is a little too likely.

Do the Giants have to name 25 for the entire postseason now, or just the first round?

I’m not saying “yes” to that initial question. I’m just saying it might not be as disastrous as it looks at first glance—but that that’s also probably not a risk the Giants should take in a 5 game series.

Point in the paper, Baggs maybe, said Zito’s no good out of the pen because it takes him too long to warm up.

I believe he beat Johan Santana in 2006, and then gave up 97 runs in the first three innings he pitched against Detroit.

wait, so you are feeling sorry for a guy making more money than most people will make in their entire lifetimes, to play a sport?

not to mention he hasn’t earned much of it at all, and has blown every shot he’s had to square up his debt to the fans?

this

also this

Riiiight? I feel so sorry about this but there’s just no where to put him. And I still can’t believe Guillen makes the roster.

♥ NO ♥

Yeah that didn’t work out at all well, did it?

in the regular season, having him start every day was maddening enough. now, in the playoffs, with absolutely no margin for error, we can’t have him playing RF everyday and not contributing to the offense. In other words, a shit RF who turns doubles into triples, has a good arm but isn’t accurate, and is a black hole in the lineup. Guillen was worth 0 WAR in his time with the Giants.

Ross, with a good arm which has amazing accuracy, good speed, and can be productive, is the much better option. I know you all know this, not tryin’ to be Captin Obvious. Just, FUCK GUILLEN

not to mention, Guillen has been there? playoffs? 4 games, and he hit like shit. His defensive liability is too much of a risk for playoff games.

back to the topic, NO ON ZITO. Walking in runs is all you really need to know.

I know that Bork doesn’t know how to use a calculator, but he probably does read newspapers since they’re old-fashioned so I was a little disappointed that this was in the blog instead of the paper. Who knows, maybe Guillen’s bulging disc will need some time to calm down.

I guess Baggs has given up on trying to get any more quotes out of Guillen.

I think given his lack of experience out of the bullpen is a detriment. Look at that Reds game he blew.

I’d rather have Ramirez and Mota (who may deserve a spot with his performance) throw 2 mop up innings, perhaps Casilla as well. Hopefully we wouldn’t be in that situation though.

not to mention that with all the off-days in between games, if a start is cut short, we can use the bullpen all we like because there is plenty of rest to come

Even though Zito’s Padres start was horrible, he’s been a solid #3 #5 starter for this team.

Here are the Giants starters and their FIP’s

Lincecum 3.15
Cain 3.65
MadBum 3.66
Dirty 4.00
Zito 4.25

xFIPS
Lincecum 3.21
Cain 4.19
MadBum 4.03
Dirty 4.11
Zito 4.77

If that doesn’t say 5th starter, I don’t know what does. Zito has been appreciably worse than any of the Giants other starters, there is no argument outside of the gamery grittyness veterany argument for why Zito should even be on the roster.

Does this game really not qualify as a good start?

Just out of curiosity, what leads you to think Cain would be better on short rest than Timmy? I tend to think that too based purely on his build and the fact that Timmy only recently has a different between starts regimen to keep in condition (I wonder whether this would be adversely affected by a short rest start). But neither pitcher has ever gone on 3 days rest, if I recall correctly.

I think it also depends on whether we’re up 2-1 or down 2-1. Down 2-1 it’s almost certainly Timmy’s ballgame, but up 2-1 it may be a different call.

I felt bad that one day he switched both Ford and Nate in, but Nate got Burrell’s spot, while Ford got Guillen’s. Nate made the third out while Ford was in the on deck circle.

Ford was lucky enough to get to even spend September with the Giants. He’ll be ok without getting an AB.

I do, but that’s hard for Bochy to do. People would have been all over him if Ford hit in a critical situation.

Ford isn’t really all that great with the bat.

This probably won’t happen though either, though. It seems everyone is conceding the point that Zito needs too much time to warm up to make him a good choice for the bullpen (and if everyone else is, Bochy might too). Since there’s going to be 11 pitchers, my guess is the long reliever is going to be someone who’s already in the bullpen.

He said this probably wouldn’t work because Zito is a slave to his routine and that routine is of a starting pitcher. He probably wouldn’t be affective in long relief.

tl;dnr

Clever.

one would think that would motivate Zito to improve, not dishearten him. If he’s a professional, then he can’t be all “well if they show confidence, ill try, but if they won’t show faith in me, why should i try?” its the difference between those two things that seperate the good from the great.

Giants don’t have confidence in Zito? Time for zito to grow a sack, work harder at it, and prove them wrong. this situation unfolded this weekend, and he folded instead of stepping up.

Personally, I think that he may be thinking it doesn’t matter, because the Giants don’t have the balls to hold their $126 mil pitcher off the staff. He seems too emotionally affected by things

Do you really believe that or are you being purposely contrarian?

I dont really buy the innings argument with Bumgarner. He’s already exceeded his previous innings total and he’s probably been pitching the best he’s ever pitched lately. I don’t really understand why we should assume he’s just about to hit a wall within the next 7-20 innings. He’s not going to get more than 1 start in any series.

bumgarner seems to have ice in the veins. he faltered at first vs ARI last week, but quickly recovered and pitched great the rest of the way out, IIRC

He might be one of those guys Bochy feels comfortable handing the ball to…although maybe not if we’re down 2-1

and [Bochy] doesn’t want to disrespect Zito by leaving him off the roster or adjusting his role on the team

This is my biggest fear. And I worry about the residual impact (if he’s left off) over the remainder of Z’s contract.

I’m convinced we DFA Rowand over the winter.

Q: How many llamas does it take to screw in a light bulb?

But then I remembered that Rowand only plays CF, so Torres gets bumped to right whenever he plays.

I want Rowand on the roster because he probably keeps Guillen off the roster and out of the lineup

But Rowand has been pretty good off the bench this year. His homerun on Saturday is something that the Giants could use in the playoffs and he’s a much better option than Guillen. Although, I imagine Bork will have both of them on the roster, the best move would be to add Rowand and subtract Guillen.

Now there’s a team that loses with style.

It’s late and I’ve got the flu but can’t sleep, so I’ll make this quick (since I’m not very cohesive right now).

Matt Cain has been a horse all year. He throws hard.

Zito has been a disappointment since May. He is a soft tosser, and the key to his game is location command. This has appearently dissappated. Not to mention, most importantly, Zito nibbles at locations, when he can’t afford to be walking people (ex- Saturdays start). In the playoffs, you can’t have a guy nibbling and walking people- playoff teams take advantage of poor location. (some can make the same argument for sanchez, but since he has K stuff and velocity he is able to overcome his walk rate)

“He sucked against the Padres this weekend” is only half the argument. Cain has been good the rest of the year. Zito has not. Cain, even after this weekend, has many more redeeming qualities. Zito does not.

leave off Casilla? Mota is a ?, but at what cost does he stay? or what cost is he left off?

leave off Rowand in favor of Guillen, if he will ONLY be a PH off the bench.

put in Velez and Burriss? at what cost?

agree with keeping Rent, but at what cost does he stay as well?

I’d like to hear your reasoning behind these opinions.

If someone falters, who better than Zito?

Madison Bumgarner.

but Casilla off? Did you watch the game on Sunday? With Casilla, Ramirez, Romo, Lopez, and Wilson…the Giant could shutdown the opponent if they lead in the 6th

Besides the fact that I believe neither of them are eligible except in case of injury, do you really need two designated runners?

And Casilla was the Giants’ third most valuable reliever by WAR, after Wilson and Romo. I can’t see leaving him off.

Put on Velez, Renteria and Burriss.

You’re a funny guy.

somehow ( * ) and ( ** ) got turned into bullets. man this place is weird sometimes

Yeah, they deleted/hid whatever your comment was. And yeah, they’re ridiculously unfriendly to opposing fans and usually ban them almost immediately, whether they were trolling or not.

I’ve commented before that my uncle is a Padres/Diamondbacks/Cardinals fan, so he has a better chance of rooting for a winning team. He also likes to post trash talk on the Facebook walls of his nephews.

On Saturday, he sent my brothers and me a message saying, “What is that weird sound I hear coming out of la la land north???” I decided not to reply until the Giants finally won the division, mostly so I wouldn’t look like a total dipshit if they actually DID lose. When they won, the only fitting thing I could think to say was, “No – no words. No words to describe it. Poetry! They should have sent a poet. So beautiful. So beautiful…”

I love my uncle, but seriously… I love that we gobsmacked his last remaining team on the final day of the season.

Actually, the more I think about it, maybe Zito’s experie……….

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bruce Bochy shouldn’t be on the postseason roster.

Don’t give them any ideas.

And he doesn’t need no walks to get on base.