What to do with Pablo Sandoval in the NLCS
by Grant Brisbee on Oct 12, 2010 1:11 PM PDT
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PrintWhen it comes to sites like this and internet baseball sites in general, there’s always going to be a measure of groupthink. It’s not because we’re sheep, it’s because we’re just so danged enlightened and always right. We knew that it was almost impossible for Javier Lopez to come over in a trade and be a complete wizard against every tough lefty in every crucial spot he was put it, so there was no need to overpay for him. I mean, Jack Taschner was on waivers, and he was free. Time has vindicated us all, so we’re going to raise a fist in the air, put our head down, and rage in the memory of John Bowker.
Most of the time, the answers are obvious. Should Barry Zito be on the postseason roster? No, and what did you have for lunch? Should Madison Bumgarner start the fourth game of the NLDS? Yes, and have you checked out New Indie Band yet? Easy questions beget easy answers.
Today, then, let’s get in a nasty, bitter brawl. Brother against brother. War between the memes.
Should Pablo Sandoval start in the NLCS?
Yes.
Look, I like Mike Fontenot. He’s scrappy, he can work a count, and he’s extraordinarily handsome. But he’s not a stellar defender at third – he’s not nearly good enough to justify starting him on that reason alone. His line for the year is .283/.331/.375, which is right around where Pablo has been this year. Of course Pablo walks more and strikes out less, so…
Don’t wrinkle your nose and mutter "liar" under your breath. There are stats to back this up, dang it. Pablo Sandoval, even this year, has been the better hitter. The defensive difference was debatable even before both players had a poorly timed error in the postseason, too. Fontenot gives you a little bit more range, but Pablo has a better arm.
With Pablo, though, you get that bewitching, maddening promise when he’s in the lineup. You think about the April Pablo or the August Pablo, which just makes you throw your remote when you watch the May, June, July, and September Pablo flail at breaking balls that bounce on the pitcher’s mound before rolling to the plate. He just might be the most maddening player in Giants history, only because we’ve all seen how spectacular he can be when he’s right.
We know that Fontenot is Fontenot is Fontenot, which is a good player to have on the team, but not a key component of a decent lineup. There’s a steadiness with Fontenot that you aren’t going to get with Pablo, and that does mean something. But I’m an idiot. Thrice burned, fourwice shy. I think August Pablo might come back in the next four to fourteen games. It’s a hunch based on nothing more than wishful thinking. I just can’t imagine a deep postseason run without Pablo Sandoval contributing.
Maybe they make panda-flavored methadone. Maybe I can call my sponsor before things get out of hand. But I’m still hoping Sandoval gets the bulk of the playing time in the NLCS.
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"Too much awesome on my feet."-Brian Wilson
"Time for the laser show, boys!"- Aubrey Huff
Roll the dice on Pablo
i mean, why not?
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
"ZIPS Is Indeed Supose To Science." --GRM
+1
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Oct 12, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Errors and double plays?
I actually voted for Team Panda, though. Some irrational part of me still thinks he can succeed.
by MissingLink on Oct 12, 2010 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
i agree. Start off with Pablo, see how he does. If he looks alright see how the game plays out and if he starts slipping late, you have fontenot to put in for defense or speed. Also if Panda sucks it up, you can just replace him with Fontenot. Like it was pointed out, you never know which Panda is going to show up series to series this year with his ups and downs. He was putting a nice swing together the last couple weeks of the season, but was pressing a bit in the NLDS. now that they have a series of post season done with, maybe he has adjusted to the idea of it and can relax in the NLCS, and pick up where he left off the last week of the season. As we can tell also, when he is swinging well, he picks it well too.
by dannyschmanny on Oct 13, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Keep in mind you really can’t tell which [insert player here] is going to show up in a given series. Random variation is a bitch like that. Sometimes Pat Burrell shows up, goes .250/.357/.750 in the NLDS, .333/.368/.500 in the NLCS, then .071/.316/.143 in the World Series….
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Start Pablo
if only to justify my wearing of his panda hat.
Tsuyohsi Shinjo: Underwear model, winner of Japanese "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire," Ham Fighter, and member of the Giants team that would have participated in 2002 WS if it an asteroid hadn't destroyed Earth.
Tsuyohsi Shinjo: Underwear model, winner of Japanese "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire," Ham Fighter, and member of the Giants team that would have participated in 2002 WS if it an asteroid hadn't destroyed Earth.
Sorry Mike
We’re going to need all the offense we can get, and it’s a lot more likely to happen with the Panda.
So Polanco's balls are about to drop?
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:16 PM PDT reply actions
They’re about to get kicked. Or thrown right into the ground.
by Grant Brisbee on Oct 12, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Nothing is predictive
Might as well go with what we see. Pablo, for whatever reason, has been far superior at home. It doesn’t make sense, but it’s happening.
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Nothing is predictive
Huh? Um, yes, some stats are predictive and some aren’t. I say Albert Pujols is going to hit better than Eugenio Velez next year. There are stats that predict this with an unbelieveable amount of certainty, as they should (obviously). There are other things that are not so predictive, like if I tried to tell you Velez was going to outhit Pujols next year because he hit .500/.500/2.000 against the Pirates whereas Pujols only hit .389/.468/.741 against the Pirates…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
(By the way, it is really freaking hard to find a split where Velez > Pujols last year)
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Do it for the 9th inning when down by 5+ runs in Dodger Stadium.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
…that one time will haunt us forever. it’s always ‘that one time’ with bork
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
That difference in slugging is the most alarming to me
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Let me give you two sets of slash lines
Let’s see if anyone can identify these
.349/.400/.535
.162/.250/.221
and
.194/.237/.264
.326/.385/.500
Any guesses what these are? No
The first set is Travis Ishikawa’s home road splits from 2009. Top is home, bottom road.
The second set is Travis’s home road splits from 2010. Top is home, bottom road.
It is very very easy to ignore.
So what you're saying is
We need to file a request with the National League to have 2009 Travis on our roster for all NLCS home games and 2010 Travis for all NLCS home games.
"I could hear the angry MCC cacophany in my head."--Oldjacket, 7/4/10
If you had two Ishikawas spraying champagne in the locker room...
…would that be the Travi Fountain?
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
i see GiantPain’s argument went to good use. Now we all know what Travis+Travis=
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
What?
At least I refrained from making the “Travi Fountenot” joke…
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
I see no reason for restatint on this issue.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
Sounds like the signature scene in a porno starring two best friends named Travis.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
ok, so I guess TI’s total career splits would even each other out a bit. Pablo’s career home/away splits are pretty drastic though:
Home (684 PA) .342/.389/.546
Away (719 PA) .268/.324/.423
Pablo’s has more career plate appearances and his career home/road splits are more severe than Ishikawa’s. I’m not saying you should absolutely assume that data is predictive, but there’s a much greater chance that it is predictive with Pablo than it is with Ishi.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
I like how Pablo’s splits are each about a season worth of sample size. We’ve seen what a season’s worth of sample size split (2009 v 2010) tell us about Pablo thus far….well, we don’t really know! ;)
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Well - my guess is its not easy for PABLO to ignore
He knows these splits. And I suspect he presses more on the road and relaxes more at home.
He’s what 24? He’s had a hell of a time this year. All sorts of stuff going on. I understand that year to year etc these home/road splits are meaningless. But that isn’t the point. The point is, are they menaingless for a 7 game NLCS series. I don’t think so. And I think its cause its in his head.
Baseball is a hard enough game to play day in day out. Its that much harder when you are pressing. Pablo presses in RISP situations. You can see it.
I suspect he is also pressing on the road.
This is all very easy to explain. 2009 was Ishikawa's year of the Ox, 2010 was the year of the Tiger. Complete opposites.
Sort of like the Seinfeld episode where George took the opposite position on everything and it worked out.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Oct 14, 2010 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I was about to suggest this.
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
It's pretty absurd that this series doesn't start until Saturday
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 1:18 PM PDT reply actions
I plan to write a letter to the editor of the local newspaper.
He is the World's Most Annoying Rooster.
by gallo del cielo on Oct 12, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m going to leave a comment on SFGate.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Make sure at least 50% of the words in your post are spelled and capitalized incorrectly.
"I could hear the angry MCC cacophany in my head."--Oldjacket, 7/4/10
I thought SFGate comments were bad, then I read youtube. And then I read ESPN comments. That one takes the cake.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
mmmm
cake
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Oct 12, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
mmmm
pie
I feel prickishly demanding!
I couldn't be prouder of my recent adoptee - Tim Lincecum's dealer. He provides the secret fuel behind both Cy Youngs. Also, he taught Timmy the change-up.
by giantsfansince1981 on Oct 12, 2010 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
...
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 12, 2010 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Benjamin Hit King, watch the Game 4 reruns on the MLB Channel. Then DVR the reruns. Then pause each play and go review in slow motion.
My wife still can’t quite figure out how I can so calmly watch a Giants game without throwing the remote control through the wall.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Oct 14, 2010 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions
But I will object to the "Fontenot is Fontenot is Fontenot" thing
Dude randomly had a .305/.395/.514 season one time. SOMETIMES he’s actually more than Fontenot.
…in 284 PAs, almost exclusively against RHP.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
Who bats vs lefties?
Uribe and Renteria on the left side?
It's better to be lucky than good.
by Myemail21479 on Oct 12, 2010 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I know you have the stats to back up th Pablo "Strand-em-all" position, but it seems like Fontenot has had better ABs the last 3 weeks.
Too many times Panda is down on three pitches ut of the strike zone and even when Fontenot makes an out, he is making the pitcher work. Is that my imagination? Also, Pablo seems to be only covering a defensive area equivalent to a phone booth. Between him and the defensive range of Uribe, combined with Burrell in leftfield, a 5 hopper through the left side could roll to the wall. At least with Fontenot, even with a weaker arm, he gets to balls Panda cannot. Also, in late innings, we saw in Game 4, Bochy had Renteria at shortstop and Uribe at 3rd. I wouldn’t be surprised t see some of that arrangement in earlier innings.
"I always knew I was going to be thrown at. I was old-school, so I didn't care, as long as they hit me from the neck down.'' Hac-Man One Flap down Jeffrey Leonard
by Penitentiary Face on Oct 14, 2010 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Using nicknames like ‘Strand-em-all’ does nothing for your credibility.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 15, 2010 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions
dropped very soft liner last night notwithstanding.
If Uribe goes to 3rd, and Rent at SS, that puts Pablo at 1st, and Huff pushes out Burrell or Ross. Either way, that doesn’t work. That’s basically trading Ross for Rent, which is a downgrade, not to mention that is assuming- big word there- that Pablo even hits.
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
That dropped liner — was I alone in thinking that that was a classic case of playoff nerves at work? He gets the ball that’s going to win the series, he starts thinking about the DP before it’s all the way in his glove, and — oops!
And this is a man who was a World Series hero when he was 21!
I just think he made the wrong choice on positioning his glove (Conrad did, too, on the dropped flyball in RF). Sometimes it happens….
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
rent had his glove turned up instead of a basket-style, so if the ball doesnt go straight in the webbing (which it didnt) there is nothing keeping it from falling right out.
he didnt position his glove correctly, or so it looked
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I suspect he's more than a tad rusty defensively
I mean – how many games has he played in the last two months at short? That ball also may have knuckled on him. I do think he made a very nice play when he went into game 2. I seem to remember a shot up the middle that he short hopped and made a play on.
Yeah, I thought it kind of dipped on him when he was expecting it to stay up.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
It seemed like it had top spin or something and it sank into the no man’s land between glove-up and glove-down to me.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he made the right choice to charge it (less time for McLouth to get back), but I think it genuinely was a little tricky. IMO he should have used two hands though, the way he caught it was asking to let it drop.
Didn’t clarify enough – when I said the liner was “tricky” it seemed to knuckle a little. It was a soft liner kind of in an in-between area where it was hard to judge whether to charge or stay back on it.
He got the out
High ass pressure. Still kept the play. Surprised to see the guy 90% to second when it was still a foot from his glove, normally that might be 2 outs when dropping that ball.
It's better to be lucky than good.
by Myemail21479 on Oct 12, 2010 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions
shouldn't it be Panda or Rent?
Uribe can shift to third, and Rent can play SS, improving the defense.
Some say that some cannot say because the Stig can make some not say what they want to say and all i want to say is i don't know what the hell i'm trying to say.
No...just talking about that play
I do like him at the plate…he seems to have a good idea of what to do…he gave Ross a tip before Ross hit the homer last night…the bunt on Sunday was also good.
I just do not get the recent Renteria love
and if he actually IS rusty, the NLCS may not be the time to work it out. He will have plenty of time when he’s retired next year.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Playing the platoon splits
This would make sense against Hamels, but no other time. Sandoval and Fontenot hit well against RHP while Renteria doesn’t. One thing I don’t like about starting Renteria is the lack of RHH off the bench.
Deal with it. Jose Guillen has been there before.
Start Pablo at home
and either Fontenot or Renteria (with Uribe sliding to third) on the road.
Whatever became of Taschner?
IIRC he’d been let go by the Pirates.
"Buster Posey" anagram = OYSTER PUBES
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Oct 12, 2010 1:21 PM PDT reply actions
"let go by the Pirates"
Also known as “retirement”
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
OK
Upon further review, he left Pirates as a FA, joined the Dogs, then left as a FA again.
Carry on.
"Buster Posey" anagram = OYSTER PUBES
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Oct 12, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Man, I don’t know. My shit doesn’t work in the playoffs.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
news flash
it hasn’t broken .500 for four years running, either.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
He's more interested in soccer now
David Forst has been running the day-to-day operations at that club.
by Murray, Present on Oct 12, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Beane is still one of the best GMs in the league
No team with that low of a payroll goes without a few rebuilding seasons, which is what Beane is doing right now.
They will break .500 next year if that pitching staff stays healthy. They’re good.
If Beane had done to the Giants what he did to the A's we'd be excoriating him
Carlos Gonzales and Huston Street and Greg Smith for a couple months of Matt Holliday.
I know he then traded Holliday for among others Brett Wallace and has since traded Wallace for Michael Taylor. Maybe it all works out. But essentially my thought is are you kidding me?
the Holliday trade may go down as every bit the dog as the Liriano/Bozner/Nathan for AJ trade.
Andre Ethier would look pretty good in an A’s uniform as well. But at least Bradley helped them get to the playoffs.
Then there is the fact that he chose to give the big bucks to Chavez and let Tejada go.
Beane is the most overrated Gm in baseball.
An existential question
Can you be overrated if all people ever talk about is how overrated you are?
it depends
Is that covered in the book, and movie, or not?
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Carlos Gonzalez probably wouldn’t put up those numbers in Oakland.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t be surprised at all, though I could see him repeating his road numbers.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea
WTF!
It's better to be lucky than good.
by Myemail21479 on Oct 12, 2010 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions
The Holiday trades was as much about shifting talent windows back more then anything else. It may not work as planned but i can’t ride the guy about that. When you are basically looking at only being able to control players for 3-4 seasons on the MLB level you have to take a ton of extra risks.
Chavez & Tejada were the only 2 times ownership gave him the chance to try and sign guys for longer then 3-4 years they have when tehy come up. Hard to bust his nuts for choose to players under 30 in positions very thin in elite talent to try and keep.
I am not a big Bean fan but i watched enough Giants clubs opperate on frayed shoe string of a budget to tell you has been more sucessfull then the run of the mill GM with simmilar constraints.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
He tried to keep Giambi too
what was it 6 years and 90 mil? No deal because no no-trade clause?
That would have been a bomb too, 15 mil for that Giambi would have crippled the A’s.
It's better to be lucky than good.
by Myemail21479 on Oct 12, 2010 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I never got the impression that was a very serious offer. More a PR move so they could say “we tried”….
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Chavez was younger and better than Tejada, so I don’t really see why you would think that was the wrong choice at the time. If you want to argue that he should have expected a 28 y-o suffering career ending injuries, well, I’d love to borrow you crystal ball.
Plus
It looked like they had a good backup plan for Tejada (Crosby ROY), and nothing for Chavez.
I think Billy’s done a good job over there. Not flawless, by any means, but most of his moves are sensible and fan-friendly.
"The two worst things in football are: 1) They think that a 30-year old professional athlete has to be locked up in a hotel room, with a curfew, the night before a qame; and 2) They're right."
- Cowboy safety Cliff Harris
The Chavez deal made a whole lot of sense at the time it was signed.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s not Fontenot vs. Sandoval, it’s Fontenot vs. Sandoval vs. Renteria.
I still have Pablo in the lineup, though.
This probably isn’t occurring to Bochy, but Moleman (who can’t hit righties) should be considered part of the group as well.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Yeah, I’d probably go crazy with a Sanchez/Fontenot platoon at second and a Sandoval/Uribe platoon at third.
by Evan on Oct 12, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like this?
Versus Hamels:
Sanchez-2B
Renteria-SS
Uribe-3B
Versus Oswalt and Halladay:
Fontenot-2B
Uribe-SS
Sandoval-3B
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
I was thinking Mole/Rent/Uribe vs. Hamels, Grant/Rent/Panda vs the others. But maybe Uribe should play short over Renteria, I’m not sure.
Also, needs more Blanton.
You have a point. Career splits vs Lefties:
Renteria: .304/.384/.458
Uribe: .259/.305/.439 (pretty much his career line, he has virtually no platoon split)
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
Really
I’m very glad to see I’m not the only one wondering why Sanchez is treated like he’s one level above all the other infielders. Fontenot is identical to him; one bats from the left side, the other from the right – this is as obvious a platoon as you can find.
Sandoval has such extreme splits for his career, that even if he’s really the hitter he’s looked like this year, he should probablystill be good for an OPS of .800 or so. Sanchez, on the other hand, barely cracks .700 against RHP. Of course, Sanchez plays much better defense, but I don’t it makes for it, and you do have to give some weight to the fact that Sandoval hit the crap out of the ball last year. No preference between Uribe/Renteria.
I think it’s the defense part that gets Sanchez treated so well.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d disagree with that, but I like combining infield UZR’s…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, for the future . . .
. . . we already know what FSanchez does playing every day, but we don’t really know about Fontenot. LH batters given a chance to play every day will still show a platoon differential (as will, given sufficient sample size, virtually every player), but it will usually drop down to something like the all-player average. Putting it another way, there is a colorable argument that Fontenot is the best choice for everyday second baseman in 2011.
If we assume (ever-dangerous word, but…) that Belt comes up sometime in 2011, moving a re-upped Huff to right field (and bumping Ross to everyday all-position outfielder), and assuming for discussion that Sandoval regains enough value, the only place where there’s room for an easy major offensive upgrade is either SS or 2B. And that’s still without figuring out what to do with a presumably healthy DeRosa. If only Fontenot or DeRosa could play shortstop every day . . . . Sigh.
Sabean delenda est!
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Fontenot is also younger by two years, which is something.
I agree with your assessment. Assuming Sanchez and Sandoval keep their starting jobs, I think Fontenot should basically be the new Uribe. Hardy should be signed to play SS – offensively he’s not much better than what we had this year, but he can field at SS as well as anyone in the majors.
DeRosa buys us some time with Belt, who could probably still use some PA’s in the minors. Start the season with Huff at 1B, and a DeRosa/Torres/Ross outfield. If and when Belt proves too good to be in AAA, call him up, move Huff to the OF, and turn DeRosa (preferably) or Ross (more likely) into the 4th outfielder. And they could both start some games against LHP, with Huff or Belt sitting.
he can field at SS as well as anyone in the majors
Don’t say stuff like this… contemplating having a real shortstop on defense is making me tingly in inappropriate places.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 14, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
One ticket please.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
Then you may as well make it Fontenot vs. Sandoval vs. Renteria vs. Uribe with two winners there. I’d probably have Uribe in there but I don’t think he is that clearly better than any of them right now.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
Fontenot gives you a little bit more range, but Pablo has a better arm.
Too bad Pablo can’t use that arm to throw the ball to first base.
I HATE YOU PABLO!
Giants Front Office....Torture!
Maybe
For some reason, I just seem to have one throw burned in to my head. Not to mention that Sandoval will strike out 5 out of 4 times against good pitching.
I HATE YOU PABLO!
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Oct 12, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Literally, he throws the ball TO first base. Not the first baseman, unfortunately.
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Weren't you watching the Braves series?
HE PULLED HUFF OFF THE BAG. Anything else that happened in the other 163 games this season is irrelevant.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I also recall a high throw in a key game late against the Reds
it is not just that he does it – it is WHEN he does it. ASS for the Reds game it was in the 9th of that unreal comeback. Put the tying runner on and he eventually scored.
Fontenot just made a terrible throw in Game 3
It happens from time to time. Pablo’s not nearly as bad defensively as a lot of people here want to believe.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I think his range is pretty awful. It reminds me of when little league coaches say to take a lead equal to your height, so you can simply fall toward the bag safely. But on defense.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Oct 12, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Nate?
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Best athlete on the team.
I HATE YOU PABLO!
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Oct 12, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Put Buster at 3rd, Eli behind the plate
More VROOOOOOOM
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya
Pablo looks worse against good pitching
Some pitchers are still dumb enough to throw strikes to Sandoval, the Phillies’ pitchers are not that dumb. They will continuously throw sliders that fall off the plate, curve balls in the dirt and fastballs that are eyeball level to Sandoval who will strik out approximately 4 katrillion times in the first game alone.
I HATE YOU PABLO!
Giants Front Office....Torture!
Nail on head
Pablo looks worse against good pitching
Can someone figure out how to do those splits?
It's orange inside
The book on Pablo
With bases empty, throw pitches a foot out of the strike zone for the easy K. With runner on first, throw any pitch over the plate for a guaranteed DP.
"I don't know how you can be a fan of this team sometimes." — Aubrey Huff
by santalechuga on Oct 12, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting how that same book didn’t work last year.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Pablo got cocky and comfortable this past Off-season and just hasn’t been able to catch up. I think next year he will be fine.
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Definite possibility. Whatever it is, I hope it’s something he can fix in the offseason.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Do not want
The posting system is a pretty ridiculous waste of money.
Fun fact: "Mota" is Bengali for "fat".
As a soccer fan,
Yes.
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Someone's been reading MLBTradeRumors
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
His numbers are pretty good, even assuming his power will totally evaporate. I wonder what his defense is like.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
I'm okay with this...
Too bad he BARELY missed the cut for Type A FA. Then we could’ve offered arbitration and he surely would’ve rejected.
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
One year as our starting SS
one year as a utility man behind Brendan Crawford.
It’s not like Uribe’s especially old or anything. Isn’t he like 31?
I like your idea
He might become expensive though, especially after this year. I doubt he’ll take a “hometown discount”
he may have power, but his defensive aint great, his average/OBP are low, he hacks at everything… there is a reason he wasn’t signed until nearly spring training
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
He absolutely will be
Whatever your eyes tell you, Juan Uribe is going to be the best free agent shortstop available this offseason.
he put up some pretty good stats last year too, and no one bit, ended up coming back for 3mil… what’s changed this year? yeah he hit maybe 5-6 more HRs, his avg dropped, he’s older and nothing else seems to have improved…
what makes you think this year he’ll be a prized signing compared to no one wanting him last year?
i still want him back next year, though. he’s only 30 and had a great year. our offense is worse without him… he just shouldn’t be batting 6th. 7th or 8th, perhaps
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes
Last season could have easily been a fluke. He’s now put up two seasons of above-average SS production with passable defense.
oh ok gotcha. i wasn’t really tuned into baseball from 2003ish-late 2008 so i figured that Uribe had been putting up those numbers for awhile now, since he was starting SS for the WS White Sox.
Now that it’s back-to-back seasons (and not just a fluke), you’re right, he will get alot more than $3mil this time around. I didn’t look at his career numbers before I said what I said, should have though.
I would def love to have him back- unless we can get a better SS. But we don’t want to gamble on getting a better SS, only to lose Uribe and not end up with the other SS (Drew, or whoever).
Maybe resign Uribe, pursue another SS, and if it fails, you still got Uribe, if you sign the other SS, then you can trade him or keep him as a 2B/SS/3B option, nudging someone else. i dunno, not quite rosterbation time yet.
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
He is not a prize. Or perhap I should say his prize a far, far less suck then the rest of the current crop of off season choices. Add in his postion flexiblity and some with get stupid witha 3 year deal.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
On ething that scares me with Uribe though
Is that low OBP, high SLG hitters don’t age well, so when he starts to decline he’ll go down fast
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
The weird thing is, he’s already declined once. He seemed to get bigger when he joined the Giants. We’ll see how that plays out.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
Yeah, honestly I'd be fine with letting him walk in FA
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Giants media guide says the Giants have an option on Uriber for 2011
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Neither Cot’s or B-R mentions an Uribe Option for 2011. The both say he is a free agent for 2011. Now Renteria the team can pay $.5MM to get out of his 2011 season or pay him $10.5MM. Perhaps they got mixed up?
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
Who is more likely to be correct.
The websites or the Giants PR department?
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
B-R is very legit. granted contract info is not easy to get at but Cot’s has been doing it for years and has a lots of contact among front office types and agents. Accruacy is ussaly not the isue with either site and much a speed of getting and updateing.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
lulz
Rely on Giants IT!
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
MLBTR also says no option
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/01/giants-reach-agreement-with-juan-uribe.html
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Have the 1st chapter of the conversation Pablo needs to have w/Boch and the FO:
Bochy: “We need you to prepare for this series. We need you to focus and concentrate on getting good pitches to hit. We need you to think situationally. If not, we’ll have to consider putting Grant in.”
Pablo: ¿Quién la cogida es Grant?
Playoff baseball is fun. We should do this more often.
eh when you imply that management is talking to pablo, and he can’t understand it cause English isn’t his first language, yeah, it does
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
No, I think it’s implying Pablo is really bad at English, which is true.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
What does him being Latin have to do with anything. Pretty sure Pablo doesn’t speak good English because he fucking speaks awful English.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
maybe
because English is not the primary language for most Latin born players? Or was he born in Iowa and I missed it?
Okay? I don’t know how this is racist, because it’s not.
It’s simply a fact that Pablo Sandoval does not speak English. I wouldn’t have said that if I didn’t know it already.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
it all comes down to the posts’ authors’ intention.
but off the bat, looked racist simply because we all know he doesn’t speak English well.
some people take offense pretty easily to perceived racist comments, whether that was the intention or not, so i was just making a comment that it could be perceived that way.
Especially living in California, where tensions at at their highest. Anyhow, not a big deal, I personally wasn’t offended, just giving the poster a heads up that it comes across that way.
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
the posts’ authors’ intention
I accept sole responsibility for said post.
Playoff baseball is fun. We should do this more often.
i wasn’t knocking on you at all man, just throwing you a heads up, that there is alot of diversity on this site (i would imagine) and some may take it the wrong way.
no biggie, it’s all good
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
(I was making fun of your use of “air commas”)
I agree, no biggie.
Playoff baseball is fun. We should do this more often.
i know, the air commas are actually good punctuation, if you must know :)
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
chasm?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
nah i think it actually is good punctuation, or so i remember from high school. ive been using it for years and no one has ever said anything, including college english teachers.
im gonna look it up
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
There was only one author… so authors’ is incorrect. “Author’s” is what you’re looking for.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed personal possessive apostrophe
is only placed at the end of the word if the word ends in s
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
exactly. and I said “the posts’ authors’ intention”, therefore, since the words “post” and “author” ended with an S (in the form that i used them in), the personal possessive apostrophe applys and is legit. i just wrote the sentence in bad form, which led to the need to use the possessive apostrophes in the first place
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
epic chasm?
Buster Posey ain't havin it... He aint.
by Caine Black Knife on Oct 12, 2010 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions
What?
Unless I am severely mis-reading this thread, there was one post at issue here, and it had one author. Thus one would refer to the post’s author’s intention. That is very poor style, but (barely) correct grammar. (Better style is to avoid using the ’s form for the genitive of a noun—"post—that is neither literally nor metaphorically living, and use instead the form the intentions of the author of the post.)
The genitive case—often and incorrectly called the “possessive”—can be indicated either by an apostrophe-s or by a modal of; it is conventional to only use the apsotrophe-s form for living beings or inanimate things that can be personified (as in the wind’s roar).
When the noun is a plural ending in s, the s after the apostrophe is omitted: both teams‘ managers were weak. But plurals not ending in s take the full form: he went off to the men’s room.
Singular names or words ending in s are or are not followed by the full form depending on how “hissy” the result would be when spoken, and how people would normally say it:
Bill James’s new book is out.
For Jesus’ sake.
Xerxes’ fleet of warships.
And:
Sabean delenda est!
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
when johnny said “There was only one author… so authors’ is incorrect. "Author’s" is what you’re looking for.”
I couldn’t say “the posts’ author’s intention” because the ’s after author would signify that there are more than one author, when in fact, there is only one author, hence singular, resulting in a personal possessive apostrophe. damn, this is confusing to explain on the internet, lol
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
It's easy
‘I fucked up’
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
it wasnt written in good form to begin with, but it was properly punctuated.
so yeah, by not putting it in good form, i fucked up, but my punctuation was correct
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Closer…
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
You should have said:
[…] the post’s author’s intention
Unless you were referring to my other racist post in this thread (in which case posts’ would have been correct).
Gotta go run the perro.
Adios,
Roberto Pistola
Playoff baseball is fun. We should do this more often.
ok, here we go:
“Place an apostrophe after the “s” when you are dealing with a possessive plural case that has an “s” at the end (e.g., book to books, tree to trees). But if the word is plural without an “s” at the end, this rule does not apply; add an apostrophe and an “s” as if the word were singular."
I should have said “the posting author’s intention”, which would have been better english, but technically i used the apostrophes correctly. It just wasn’t written in good form, but was correctly punctuated
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I was surprised
to hear Javier Lopez interviewed after the clinching game against the Padres. He has almost no accent at all…looking at his B-R page afterwards, I saw he was in fact born in PR, but went to high school and college in Virginia.
Sorry, I digress.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
Racist? Dunno about that.
It would only have been racist if Bochy was shouting at Pablo to help him better understand the English.
This seems like one of those “It’s racist/sexist because they mention something involving race or sex.”
people are pretty sensitive to what is racist and what isnt. me, personally, im 100% whiteboy, so i didn’t really take offense, but like i said above, that can easily be mistaken as coming across in the wrong way
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought it was just a setup so that he could write “Who the fuck is Grant?” in Spanish.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
That's what I assumed
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Oct 12, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
actually
it implies that YOU don’t know spanish.
Translation of pablo’s quote: “Who the fuck is Grant?”
Which absolutely implies that he DOES understand english, and is speaking spanish… because maybe he doesn’t want BOCH to understand him.
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
you are correct, i dont know spanish. but that’s not the point.
the point is that bochy and sabes said something in english, and pablo responded in spanish because he “doesn’t speak english”
that is what it implies, and that is only the point i made- IS THAT IT CAN BE INTERPRETED BY SOME AS RACIST. GIVING THE POSTER A HEADS UP
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
But he does understand it. He’s just wondering who the fuck Grant is.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
No quote marks means he’s saying it to himself, presumably in his native tounge. Sorry if I
offended anyone.
Playoff baseball is fun. We should do this more often.
This man is very offended
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
hypersensitive post is hypersensitive.
Choppin' broccoli
by SimpleJaquez on Oct 12, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Pablo is essentially a FAT, switch-hitting Happy Pete with no range
If he bats 7th, Panda is preferable to having Fontenot, who we may need at 2nd base if FrSanCHEZZ trips over the baseline.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya
WE ARE ALL PEDRO FELIZ
Pedro’s career best OBP was .308 in 2009. Even this season, Panda has a .322.
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the Fresno Grizzlies.
Dude could catch
Sucking up to Grant for a mod position since 2009
"Quiet you, I'm starting a meme." - Me
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
I have a bigger one (TWHS)
"He knocks a stake through the heart of the Cardinals! The Cardinals are dead! The Giants are going to the World Series!!!" -Jon Miller
t's Posey time!!
Screw you Flannery.
We were all there
We are all Pedro Feliz, Catcher.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
Yeah, in 2006 Feliz had over 600 at-bats with a .281 OBP. Even with top-notch defense, that’s pretty terrible.
I decided to look up low-OBP seasons, and holy crap, look at Andres Thomas’ season in 1989 for the Braves:
571 PAs of 213/.228/.316.
How the hell does that guy get 571 PA’s? He had also led NL shortstops in errors the previous year.
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the Fresno Grizzlies.
Those were some pretty aweful braves teams IIRC.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
LOL
Yea they were what the Bucs are now
It's better to be lucky than good.
by Myemail21479 on Oct 12, 2010 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
So he's just like him, in that he's not like him?
I always thought of Pablo as a younger, slower, better hitting, crappier fielding version of Omar Vizquel.
Just sayin’
by SixFourThree on Oct 12, 2010 3:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I voted for Pablo, but I don’t think it should be rigidly either or. Pablo is the starter, but if he doesn’t show any improvement, you have to play Fontenot. Or, I dunno, play to the match-ups or something.
"Just another ahahahaha... laugher."
Free AnVil!
Here's the way I think of it
We are the underdogs against a Philly team that could throw Roy Halladay out there 3 times in a 7 game series. Because we are the underdogs, a higher-risk, higher reward option (which is what Pablo is) makes more sense in this series – there are more scenarios where we win (in a basic probability model) with Pablo at 3B over Fontenot. In the end, we don’t care if we lose 4-3 or 4-0 – and I think the higher variance of Pablo’s abilities makes it worthwhile to play him.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
I was just about to post something like this.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Like in game 3 of the Braves series?
Or maybe that was game 2?
Pablo is also more likely to strike out on three pitches that travel a total distance of 150 feet with the game on the line.
I HATE YOU PABLO!
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Oct 12, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
do you get the term high-variance?
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
I still would rather live or die with Panda at bat instead of thinking “Would Pablo have heated up if we started him?”
The Magic is inside all of us.
Proud father of the man taking your hard-earned money.
sadly, this.
we don’t have much choice than to play him and hope he hits, with a team as heavily favored as philly
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to mention being patient against Doc is a good way to strike out
he has amazing control, and gets a more than a little leeway with where the corners of the zone are. Pablo’s hacktastic stylings can be an advantage when facing a control artist like Doc, Fontenot would be caught looking in many situations were Pablo might at least put it in play.
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
I like your sig.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Maybe
But we got to Lowe with the pitch count. He 5 pitch walked Burrell after owning him all night at 100 pitches. This was Lowe on short rest yes, but Doc can’t pitch 120 pitches 3 games. We also can’t let him 90 pitch CG us game 1 either. Biggest thing not mentioned in that win either was Madbum working like 10 pitches off him, 2 great ABs considering.
2 things that beat great pitching. Power and pitch count. I will concede Panda has greater power, but only when he makes contact. He just seems more likely to have a 1-2-3 WTF was that AB.
And, I love the idea of having 1 monster bat late when we need to, with 2 men on and 2 out and Torres on deck.
It's better to be lucky than good.
by Myemail21479 on Oct 12, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I like the idea of having said monster bat come up to the plate 4+ times, rather than once…
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions
But Fontenot would only be making one out while Pablo would be making two.
That’s why it helped to have Rowand strike out ahead of Ross. If Guillen had been hitting in that spot, Ross never would have come up to the plate with the bases full.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Oct 12, 2010 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions
David Bell
NLCS EXPERIENCE
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:28 PM PDT reply actions
Bill Muelle please.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
Torres-CF
Sanchez-2B
Huff-RF
Posey-1B
Burrell-LF
Uribe-SS
Schierholtz-3B
Sandoval-C
why is this even difficult?
Regardless of the Sandoval C stuff...
lol cody ross.
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought this was serious until I saw 3B.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
lol Sandoval catching. yeah, let’s let our pitching staff who have the utmost confidence in buster deal with throwing to pablo in the biggest games of the year.
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Jeff Fletcher
Ryan Howard, asked which Big 3 is better: “I’d go with ours. If I went with theirs, I shouldn’t be playing. What kind of question is that?”
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
Should've asked him if he'd pay to watch Halladay vs. Lincecum
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Dumb question
Deserves a dumb answer.
I HATE YOU PABLO!
Giants Front Office....Torture!
by Giant Torture on Oct 12, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Shades of “Tim, Matt, do you think you can get to the World Series with your lineup?”
They could be Giants...but not really.
“No, not really, we really should just pack up and go home now.”
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
God help me, I’m still on Team Pablo.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 1:30 PM PDT reply actions
Gotta Be Pablo
I know it’s been said, but we NEED Pablo in this series….after watching the team flail and fail against the Braves, we should realize it isn’t all Pablo. Uribe, by my accounts left around 1,000,000 runners on during the series. Time to see if Panda can step it up
"A 1-0 Loss is the fault of our pitching staff" Bruce Bochy/Brian Sabean
I was trying to give a very conservative estimate…..Uribe infuriated me during the series, and he got ZERO flack for it
"A 1-0 Loss is the fault of our pitching staff" Bruce Bochy/Brian Sabean
by Cant_buy_a_run on Oct 12, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I was being flanked by a couple of commenters who didn’t want me spouting negs.
I like Uribe an awful lot (given what he is), so this isn’t a strict defense, but, he wasn’t the only flailer flailing.
Oh i know, it definitely wasn’t all Uribe, and I do like him a lot too. It’s just amazing how tough people are on the 23 year old and how much they let other hackers on this team off the hook. NOBODY looked competent in the series except Posey and Ross.
"A 1-0 Loss is the fault of our pitching staff" Bruce Bochy/Brian Sabean
by Cant_buy_a_run on Oct 12, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
No one lets the other hackers off the hook
Rowand sits. They’ve had no other real option at short than Uribe most the year. And while he’s incredibly frustrating – he also hit a TON of huge HR’s this year.
Sandoval hit about a buck ninety in RISP. His defense is atrocious. He can’t run the bases. And he plays dumb.
I still think he can be a huge part of this organization. Beginning next year. Right now – he’s a pinch hitting option.
Pablo Sandoval
Could easily be the next Brooks Conrad.
I HATE YOU PABLO!
Giants Front Office....Torture!
Are you implying he will get a start at second base?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah, a 1920’s Style “death ray.”
/obscure?
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Oct 12, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Option 3
Uribe at third Renteria at SS versus Hamel, Uribe at Short Fontenot at third versus Halliday and Oswalt.
Why: 1. Defense. It is at a premium in these low scoring games. And if the Giants are going to win, it is going to have to be through low scoring games. They are not going to outslug the Phils. The biggest difference betweent the Giants-Braves was defense. Indeed, in game one – the Giants scored their run when Infante can’t make a relatively routine play going to his left. In game 2 the Giants lost in part because Pablo fails to make a relatively routine play charging a ball in the 8th.
Fontenot has better range and is, I think a significantly smarter baseball player. Sandoval’s defense right now is awful. He can’t charge a ball, he has no range, his arm is inaccurate. That collision with Posey occured, imo, in large part because it took Sandoval so damn long to get there. And Posey knew that was going to be the case.
2. The Sandoval double play. Way too often, way too predictable. Hell Brenley was calling it in game one while Sandoval was on-deck. Sandoval cannot lay off of pitches early in the count. Smart pitchers (and the phils have three of the smartest) know if they throw one around his ankles he will chase and his chances of elevating that pitch is slim.
Fontenot is a smarter hitter.
3. Renteria. Good thing seem to happen from him in the post season. (except for dropping that line drive!) His bunt single Sunday should have been the beginning of the game winning rally. Great play as they had just put Glaus in. I’m still amazed that they didn’t try to drop one down yesterday on a guy that had played 2 innings ALL YEAR at third, is slower than mud and has problems throwing the ball. he singled in his only at-bat yesterday. BTW – can anyone else figure out why he did not hit for Fontenot instead of Rowand. I’m still scratching my head over that one.
4. They’ve given Sandoval 50 chances to step it up. It isn’t going to happen this year. He will hurt them if he starts.
by lexluth7 on Oct 12, 2010 1:32 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I meant his bunt single Friday
its all a blurr!!!
Fontenot may be a smarter hitter
but he’s also a significantly worse hitter. He’s a fine utilityman but he does not have the bat to be a major league third baseman.
I agree with you, though, that neither of them should be starting against Whole Camels.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
Defense. It is at a premium in these low scoring games.
I think this is the opposite of the truth. In low-scoring games, defense doesn’t matter as much, because the pitchers are getting a ton of strikeouts, and any runners that get on via poor defense are more likely than usual to be stranded.
Tell that to the Braves
They are sitting at home today for one main reason – their defense.
You get 7-9 k’s you sitll have 18-20 outs.
and if they’d scored more than 9, but we’d scored more than 11, than they’re still at home.
how do you score more when the opposing pitching shuts you down? at what point did “the offense not score enough” vs “the pitching was that good”?
that’s an endless argument. thus, defense (run preventing), is a premium.
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I really love that you end with
that’s an endless argument.
and yet still manage to come to a definitive conclusion!
.212 average .296 slg pct
that is what the Giants did in the series. Here’s the funny part. The Phils hit .212 versus the Reds and slugged around .280. the Giants ave/slg pct combo was the best of the four NL teams.
Pitching comes to the fore in the playoffs. Games are one run affairs. Tight tense. Defense matters. If you don’t believe it – don’t just ask the Braves. Ask the Reds. Their defense killed them in game 2. That and walks (plus a phantom hit batsman).
Wow. I didn’t realize that. Interesting stats.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I voted Pablo
I’m hoping that the couple games sitting helped him realize he needs to change things in order to continue contributing. I’m really hoping that if he plays, he doesn’t prove me wrong.
I came, I saw, I told bad jokes and left.
well, every time we’ve sat him this year, he’s come back hitting, or so it seems
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Living in Philly I have been hearing all this talk that HANDS DOWN the Phillies rotation is better.
Now, is it better? The top three may better by a smidgen but its not what I would call hands down.
Halladay (don’t want to say better) a little more consistent that Tim? Sure
Oswalt vs Cain. give me Cain
Sanchez v Hamels. I’ll probably take Hamels, but when Sanchez is on he could potentially be the best pitcher in the series.
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
Philly rotation more tested in BG's
Halladay is the best pitcher in the NL. Lincecum is a close second. I know he didn’t have the numbers others did this year, but I don’t care. I’d take him over any other NL pitcher. Period.
Oswalt has been lights out in Philly – except in the NLDS versus Cincy. Cain has struggled a bit his last two outings. If we get the Cain of Sept, that is also damn close to a draw.
Hamels is awfully good and has been, I belieive, a WS MVP. But I tell you Sanchez has been unreal. I still am waiting for him to implode (old habits die hard). If he doesn’t he can give the Phils fits.
4th guy doesn’t matter, btw, as the Phils will go with 3. These are two great starting rotations.
If I am not mistaken, the Giants beat Halladay, Oswalt twice (while with Houston) and Hamels this year.
The problem isn’t the rotation. They are damn near even. Phils, of course, have a far superior lineup. Giants a far superior bullpen. Unfortunatley, you have to get to the Phils bullpen and that ain’t easy.
Oswalt has no been lights against the Giants
Hamel has not been good against the Giants
4th guy does matter
lol
"My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder." -Zinedine Zidane
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Oct 12, 2010 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Phils won't go four deep
they will stick with their big three. Bum may matter, I agree.
Who cares if Oswalt has been lights out in Philly – the question is how good is he? What he did outside of Philly matters, too….
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Well that is easy to answer
Oswalt is damn good. We all know that. Is he better than Cain? Irrelevant. Because they won’t be facing the same lineups.
Both teams have a Great Big 3. The Phils advantage is that there Big 3 will face a lineup that is significantly easier to navigate than the Giants Big 3 will face.
Having said that I keep the faith.
To be clear I meant "with Philly"
My bad on that. Not that it necessariy makes any difference to your point.
not hands down, but it's better
Halladay really is that good. Only if Lincecum is back to the HoF track from which he derailed for a couple months there, is he Halladay’s equal, and in the playoffs Halladay’s efficiency and IP advantage matters less. But only if.
Oswalt and Cain currently are very close. I take Cain as the better bet for the next five years, but this series is right now.
Hamels is nowhere near as electric as Sanchez, but his results consistently are better. Sanchez is a threat to throw a no hitter, but Hamels is much more likely to give you two very good starts.
I think one can argue
from a pure PITCHING perspective that the Phillies 3 have been better than the Giants 3 this year. 4th Starter is clearly an edge to SF.
(FIPs of 3.0/3.3/3.7 for PHL to 3.2/3.7/3.4 for SF).
But Run Prevention != Pitching. It’s pitching + defense. And whether you give the Giants fielders credit for making plays, or the Giants’ pitchers credit for giving up easy balls in play – it’s clear that from a RUN PREVENTION stand point, the Giants are the better team.
Remember, part of the reason that pitchers BABIP is variable is not just that it’s RANDOM but that it’s highly dependent on the defense behind them. But those outs still count!
Finally – it’s a little silly to use pure 2010 stats for this. Over the last 3 years I would rank them (FIP only)
Lincecum
Halliday
Oswalt
Hamels
Cain
Sanchez
Really the difference is Oswalt vs. Sanchez, and Sanchez is the only one of the 6 pitchers who really seems to be much better this year than the previous 2.
Bumgarner is the wild card here. He’s probably not as good as Halliday on short rest or whatever game 7 starter BUT he does give the Giants the option to throw him out there in game 4 if they are leading the series.
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
Why would it be silly to use only 2010 stats to compare pitchers?
Do you think the historical stats will more adequately reflect how a pitcher will perform on a given day versus the yearly stats (at the end of the year)?
I’d put my money on the yearly stats being a more accurate reflection. In fact, I’d put my money on the stats from the last 5 starts over the historical stats for judging what kind of performance you are probably going to get.
I’m not a stats guy, so please be nice!
Historical stats are better. Basically, what it comes down to is sample size. The bigger the sample size you’re looking at, the better. One year of pitching staff involves too much luck, and a guys career stats will neutralize a lot of that luck.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Because the cutoff of April 2010 is arbitrary. It’s like voting for the all-star game based on performance from April-July. If you do that, you will take players who are “obviously” not the best at their position.
The more detailed answer is that it’s generally not determinable whether someone played good or bad recently because of some real “reason” (i.e, they are ACTUALLY as good as they are in the last month) or if it’s just normal ups and downs. Is Halliday more likely or less likely to pitch well in the NLCS because he threw a no-hitter in the last series? You can’t tell… you have to look at the whole picture.
You have to draw a line somewhere however, because careers are not stagnant. You wouldn’t use Renteria’s career numbers to predict anything for this weekend (except perhaps overall L/R splits – but only look at the difference between him facing LH vs RH, not the absolute numbers).
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
I'm just not sure though that I buy that a pitcher's stats from 1 or 2
years ago are as relevant as the stats from the the last several weeks or months which should be enough to even out the “luck” factor of a single game or two.
Pitchers lose velocity, add pitches, etc. that can really change their effectiveness over time. Do Jonathan Sanchez’s stats from two years ago adequately reflect how he is pitching lately? Is his recent success just attributed to luck or is it something else?
Take the top 10-20 pitchers in baseball 2 years ago.
Do you think they are mostly still good pitchers now? How many?
Sanchez I said might be the exception because he is one of the 6 who is not “established”. But I don’t know and you cannot tell from the numbers whether his 2010 is fluky or continued improvement.
Since 2007 Sanchez’
ERA: continually improved
K/9: stayed about the same
BB/9: stayed about the same
HR/9: stayed about the same (basically league average)
BABIP: Steadily improved
LD%: steadily improved
IFFB% steadily improved
The later 3 (and also ERA ) are very highly correlated. I think it’s reasonable (but not certain) to conclude that he is giving up fewer hits because he is allowing weaker contact. But it could be a fluke, too.
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
I'm surprised his BB/9 is about the same
It seems to me that Sanchez has always been a difficult AB for hitters. His problems also seemed to be with too many walks and letting mistakes or bad breaks rattle him and make him lose his concentration.
I thought he was walking fewer this year but maybe that has just been recently. He’s definitely been much better the entire year in not letting things distract him.
The “luck” factor isn’t a single game or two. There’s still a lot of luck in an entire season’s worth of stats.
Pitchers lose velocity, add pitches, etc. that can really change their effectiveness over time. Do Jonathan Sanchez’s stats from two years ago adequately reflect how he is pitching lately? Is his recent success just attributed to luck or is it something else?
We know. We also know statistics, and we know the benefits of sample size outweigh this by quite a bit.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, that doesn’t mean there isn’t any room for using judgment here. If a pitcher is throwing 89 last year and 95 this year, obviously last years stats are not very relevant. In most cases, though, talent changes pretty gradually, and most changes in performance are much more likely to be changes caused by random variation rather than changes in talent. You really have to have a very good idea that a player’s talent has changed to disregard the past ~3 seasons stats.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
That what pisses me off most about the anti-sabr crowd. The act like stats don’t have room for scouting.
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I DON’T REMEMBER WHO I WAS ARGUING WITH, BUT THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I CITED THE LAST THREE YEARS OF JOSE GUILLEN’S CAREER TO PROVE HE’S NOT GOOD ANYMORE
MAKE A GODDAMN NOTE OF THAT, PERSON I TALKED TO ON THE INTERNET LIKE A MONTH AGO
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
you must be new to McC
The accepted method is to find the sample and sample size that supports your argument, and ignore the others.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Does Robert Pattinson play baseball?
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:34 PM PDT reply actions
lol'd at this
Croix De Candlestick: You'll be a better person for reading | My adopted Giant: the next Buster Posey, Johnny Monell
Pablo
And I don’t really think it’s much of a debate.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Oh, I dunno. The sub-debate Evan and I had up above was pretty substantive, I think.
Jonathan Sanchez: Often maddening to watch, but capable of perfection on a moment's notice---just like his adoptive father.
It was masterful.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I see what you did here
Proud adopted parent of the ball dudes, who have grounded into 109 fewer double plays than the Giants.
Depends on your fantasy life.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
If you don't think its much of a debate you haven't been watching
BTW – who got the key hit early on Sunday???
Sweet, the "haven't been watching" argument and 1 game samples
I’ll counter with you don’t know dick about baseball.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Pablo hasn’t been a good baseball player this year.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
Yup, he's struggled
And in his struggles, he’s as good as Fontenot. But, Pablo has upside with the bat that Fontenot doesn’t. This is why it’s obvious.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I think I might be in this line? Can I have my vote?
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok
Well his downside is Fontenot. So, what would you place the odds at? Hint, if it’s better than zero Pablo has the higher expected value.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I feel like every player’s downside is pretty shitty, so not really.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
Fair enough
Same could be said about Fontenot too.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Yeah. I don’t see the point of saying “well when this guy sucks he sucks.”
I’ve seen A-Rod look pretty awful too. Everyone except BLB.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
It’d be kind of interesting to see Bonds’ worst 7-game stretch from 2000-2004.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
7 games? That’s probably still only 6 ABs.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Oct 12, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he went hitless once against the Dodgers (although it was like 2006), but still had about 5 walks.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
I remember him being pretty streaky in his last couple of years.
Of course, he was still OPSing like 1.000 because he got walked when the other team was at bat, but still. The hits seemed (and it could be my perception bias) to come in bunches, especially the homers.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
Well
How much worse do you think he could be than he has already been this year? And how likely do you think that is? And how likely do you think it is that Fontenot could be worse?
Look, over the last season, they’ve been about equal. Over the last two seasons, Pablo has blown him out of the water.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Well Pablo could be a lot worse but I don’t think those chances are very high. It’s the chance of Fontenot being worse that I struggle with. It seems like he at least has an approach at the plate.
Obviously, Pablo has been much more valuable when he hits .330 w/25 HR’s but I think he’s a long way from there (right now).
I CAN HAZ MARK REYNOLDS?
Well, remember what Grant wrote
Of course Pablo walks more and strikes out less, so…
Don’t wrinkle your nose and mutter “liar” under your breath. There are stats to back this up, dang it. Pablo Sandoval, even this year, has been the better hitter.
Pablo actually walks a bit less, when you take out IBB, but I think this all boils down to frustration with Pablo not being 2009 Pablo and Shiny New Toy Syndrome with Fontenot.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I think this all boils down to frustration with Pablo not being 2009 Pablo and Shiny New Toy Syndrome with Fontenot.
You may be right because that’s exactly how it feels.
Whenever Pablo does something good my reaction is, “FINALLY,” because it is expected. Fontenot doesn’t have those expectations so when he does something good its like a gravy train with biscuit wheels.
Honestly, it’s sad that this decision even needs to be made.
I CAN HAZ MARK REYNOLDS?
Has Fontenot clearly been better?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
No, but he hasn’t clearly been worse, which is why saying it’s not even a debate is pretty ignorant.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
The ignorant part is only thinking about what have you done for me
More important, is what CAN you DO for me. And Pablo can do more. This is exceptionally basic stuff, I can’t believe you’re struggling with it.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
And how long have we been waiting for what Pablo CAN do? How long does it take to realize he’s just not going to do it this year?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
You have no proof of that
And he has done it at various points. And worse case scenario is that he’s as good as Fontenot. Best case scenario is that he’s much better. Do you get that?
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
How in the world is the worst case scenario him being as good as Fontenot? That makes no sense.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
Did you not read Grant’s post? Have you not looked at their batting lines? Sandoval’s awful year is right in line with Fontenot’s career line.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
So there’s no chance that over the course of seven games that Fontenot would hit better than Sandoval? Oooooooooookay.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
uh i think you misunderstood.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
that means there's a chance Burriss will hit better too
maybe he should be activated. Science!
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Holy fuck
Of course I’m not saying that. Try to pay attention. Basically, in what everyone agrees is an awful year, Sandoval and Fontenot have been about the same value. Anything can happen in a few games but, given their histories, there is a higher likelihood if Sandoval being more valuable.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Until Sandoval changes his approach and gets better conditioned, he’s not going to get better. That’s been made perfectly clear, even after 250 cases of “Hey, Pablos’s back!” this season.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
So worst case, you’d rather take the .323 OBP than the .331 OBP?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but in 2009 he was just as out of shape and his approach was just as bad.
He got the benefit of being new. In hindsight, I don’t know how the scouting reports didn’t catch on earlier.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
They did. He was pitched almost the same last year. And he swung at almost the same pitches last year.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Are the pitchers treating him all that differently this year? He got a lot of unhittable slop last year too, but he hit it.
They’re not. This information exists on the internet (Fangraphs!), and the evidence pretty strongly suggests that nothing major has changed, besides Pablo simply not hitting the ball hard consistently like he did last year.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
He even strikes out the exact same amount.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Vision?
Weight? (my favorite one)
Confidence?
Divorce?
LD% a lil' down
IFFB% WAY up
HR/FB WAY down
Swinging at more stuff out of the zone
Swinging at LESS stuff IN the zone
Seeing fewer pitches in the zone.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Swinging at more stuff out of the zone
Swinging at LESS stuff IN the zone
Seeing fewer pitches in the zone.
These differences are all quite small.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions
well they're all under 5%
but what would be significant?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
In addition to looking at the changes from last year, also look at how they compare to his career numbers.
As for an idea on the variation, well, check out this guy’s variation:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1177&position=1B
They are things that vary a decent amount on a year to year basis.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a little tough
to compare to career, when career is essentially this year vs. last year.
Do you have any idea what the SD would be?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
154 PA’s out of 1403 total is enough to not ignore! No idea on std dev, but it appears to me to be multiple percentage points, depending on which one of those stats we’re talking about, exactly….
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure you aren’t going to get any sort of retraction here.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Marcello We are talking about a short series right now
If you ask me who I want next year etc THAT is easy. But Sandoval is a mess right now. And its obvious by simply watching him play. He’s lost at the plate and he’s scary in the field.
Did you see the Game 1. I think it was the 6th. Runner on third one out. Uribe (I think) up. Brenly mentions it wouldn’t be bad to walk him cause Sandoval hits into a boatload of DP’s. Uribe walks. Cox brings in Venters. First pitch is a slider. At best a very low strike, probalby low. In any event, not a pitch to “elevate” in that situation. A pitch to take. But Pablo simply cannot do that. He hits a two hopper to short. Double Play. It happened over and over and over.
Look I love Pablo. I think he is going to be the guy we all liked in ‘09 – but better. But he is going to have to remake himslef a bit. Lose some weight and gain some plate discipline. Not patiece so much, he’llnever be a patient hitter. But at least understanding siutations and what to look for.
Fontenot brings a little speed (something the Giants sorely lack). A better disciplined bat. And he’s produced when he’s played.
That is my argument.
I get you disagree and that is fine. No one is RIGHT here. Its just a bunch of folks giving their perspectives. hey if Pablo plays I hope he goes 10-20 with 5 HR’s and you can say I told you so.
sorry for the typos
if anyone knows how to edit please let me know.
thanks.
I don't understand the obsession with Pablo's weight and plate discipline
He was fat and undisciplined in 2009 too. Over the course of his career, it would definitely be better for him to lose some weight and develop a better eye at the plate, but even if he did these things this off-season, it’s far from a given that he’d automatically go back to his 2009 level of production.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Weight affects him defensively
plate discipline has gotten worse. Or pitchers have worked him differently and he hasn’t adjusted. 2009 may have been a fluke. I’d be happy with .290 and 20-25 HRs. I’ll leave all the Saber stats to you!!!
But pitchers have not been working him differently.
The only real difference for Pablo this year is a down BABIP and he is not driving the ball.
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Why is he not driving the ball?
Perhaps its because he’s hitting more pitches that lead to that result – ie – sliders at the ankles on the corner. Prety damn hard to do much with those!
If pitchers are throwing him the same pitches and he has the same level of plate discipline, it does not follow logically that he’d be hitting more balls that he can’t drive. It makes more sense that something in his hitting mechanics is causing him to not drive balls that he was able to last year.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I dunno, it’s a huge mystery to me. I don’t even like speculating because it’s so unclear. It still could just be random variation, too.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Right
I should have added that too.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
His plate discipline has gotten worse, but it’s by a very small amount. Pitchers have worked him differently, but again, it’s been by a very small amount. I don’t see any evidence those are significant factors in the difference from last year to this year.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Good point. The way I see it is that he’s young and seemingly somewhat immature. If he realizes that these are things on which he has to improve, that will show a certain amount of maturity if he tries to address them.
Whether he can succeed is another story, but 1st things 1st (for the record, I’m team Pablo based mainly on my rerception of his offensive upside).
Playoff baseball is fun. We should do this more often.
I harped on Pablo’s plate discipline in 2007 and 2008, but he wore me down in 2009. And I’m not alone in that. Last year we all came to believe that he had some preternatural bad-ball-hitting ability that meant that he didn’t need plate discipline the way ordinary mortals do. 2010 was a glaring demonstration that we were right in the first place.
His weight helps prevent him from being a good fielder; I doubt it has much to do with his hitting.
Completely agree
I’m just making the point that his weight and plate discipline don’t explain the difference between 2009 and 2010 since they haven’t really changed much in that time.
I’m also not completely convinced that losing weight would materially affect his defense (although it couldn’t hurt). Reaction time and first step are really important at 3B and these things are about more than just weight. Also, there are plenty of normally proportioned 3B that have terrible range.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he is a fantastic natural athlete
one of the best on the team, and that has let him play well despite the weight.
It also made me scoff at every “lol too fat to play” post over the last two years. But I’m warily worried about him nowadays and hope it’s a sophomore slump, a common enough thing for a ballplayer, and not that he skipped minor league ball and missed important instruction, or that he’s had a serious injury, or some other permanent disaster.
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by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretty sure the “sophomore slump” idea is just regression towards the mean in action.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
even if it's
one outlier amidst a career of years that look like last year?
We’ll know for sure when his career’s over.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I meant more for the population as a whole. Wasn’t talking about Pablo specifically.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Weight definitely would make him better. Being in shape doesn’t make one a good fielder, nor does being out of shape make one a bad fielder, but all things equal, a heavier (in a bad fat way, aka, Pablo) will negatively affect range….
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Right
I’m just questioning exactly how large of a negative effect his weight has on his range. It’s not guaranteed that we’d even be able to discern a difference in his defense if he lost 30 pounds.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I definitely think 30 pounds would make a significant difference. 5 runs maybe, since I’m in a “making up numbers” kinda mood?
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
It was in kickboxing and not baseball, but subjectively at least I can say 15 pounds mad a huge difference to me in first step quickness.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I know it’s not the same position and age is a factor in addition to weight, but are there UZR numbers we could use to compare skinny Tony Gwynn vs. fat Tony Gwynn?
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Not that I know of. Feel free to look through this if you think you can find anything interesting:
http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/top500.htm
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Right Marcello
I’m not talking one game. I’m talking a body of work over 166 that has not been impressive. AAlso – when one argues through name calling one simply shows one has lost the argument. But I assume based on your comment that you are very yound and immature. so I’ll give you a break.
Listen
You’re the guy who started in with the “you must not be watching the games” horseshit. That’s an insult, a passive-aggressive one, but an insult. Don’t try to hide now.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I'm not hiding Marcello
And if I insulted you – sorry. I didn’t mean to. Passive aggressive is not my style. i responded more substantively above.
This might be an internet first. Your comment changed my opinion. I voted Fontenot, then read your comment, checked the stats, and now believe Pablo is the clear answer.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
And just like that
The internet was broken, never to work again.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Yeah,
the little thread started by marcello change my mind too. Pablo’s at bats last series looked pretty terrible though.
WWRWD?
I won't pretend that I'm not frustrated as hell with him
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
One thing that i find truly bizarre
is his home/away splits. I can’t think of any reason for it other than comfort level. If memory serves he hit much better at home in ‘09 as well. But I may be wrong. And I’m certain it will be pointed out if I am.
Peace Marcello – I truly did not mean to insult.
so
probably there is no reason at all. Not everything has a reason. This is probably the 1st law of Statistics (null hypothesis)
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
its too large a variation
Disagree. Its confidence. Sandoval has some comfort level at home and none on the road.
I mean its easy to see why Rockie hitters would have these type splits. As for Giants, it is something else. And it can’t be that Sandoval is “unlucky” on the road etc.
Players know their stats. It’s the Krukow ownage bit. They know where they do well, who they do well against etc. And it has a little impact in their confidence level. When you are dealing with this level of competition little edges here and there matter.
It doesn’t mean that a player can’t beat the “odds” for lack of a better word. But there is nothing random about the kind of home/away split Sandoval has this year. He knows his road woes and he presses even more. That is a recipe to fail.
Might it change next year – of course.
Might he hit .300 in Philly this series if he plays. Sure.
I’m not saying its necessarily a predictor. I just don’t buy the random part.
Not everything is explained by stats and mathematical probabilities.
oh it's "too large"???
what’s the Standard Deviation on BA/OBP/SLG?
You know you can actually calculate the EXACT probability that it’s “too large”. That’s actually what statistics is for.
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
Um, why wouldn’t everything have a probability attached to it? That’s just silly talk!
Random variation. It happens.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Except you are dealing with human beings
not mathematical equations.
Somebody’s all caught up on their Simpsons!
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by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 13, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm okay with doing the exact same thing we did this series
Give him two starts, go from there.
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 1:38 PM PDT reply actions
Pablo has hit into 10 double plays since the Braves series ended.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
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Yep, something the slash stats doesn’t measure. Most people will probably dismiss it as luck, but I think it has a lot to do with speed and Pablo’s situational approach.
by kingofthacove on Oct 12, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know why people would dismiss it completely as luck. We definitely know some guys are slower and faster and some guys hit more/less groundballs, and those are factors in how many double plays a guy hits. I mean, some of it might be bad luck, but there is actual skill involved in avoiding double plays (or hitting into a lot of them)….
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Part of it is that he chases a ton of pitches down in the zone
those tend to lead to groundballs. My probelm is that he so often does it early in the count. A DP with a guy on first is one thing. Its the first and third, first and second’s that are the killers.
It’s not an important stat.
Utter frustration and futility.
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by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Johnny D
No offense meant here – but I fail to understand why.
Look at the top 10 in GIDP from year to year. It’s a mixed bag – good hitter and not so good hitters. As painful as it is to watch, GIDP is not a good measure of offensive performance.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
not a big stat head here, but that
sounds like a matter of definition. Is there a metric that embraces the effect of GIDP on overall offense.
Rally WAR includes double plays in offensive runs above average. It’s not too difficult to combine with linear weights. The problem is in the case we’re talking about, we need a regressed double plays metric to figure out how likely a double play is going forward.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
That would be marvelious!
At a cheap and dirty way the best I’ve been able to come up is GiDP over runners on PA’s or even Gidp over RiSP P.A’s. The thought being how often the convert those valuble situations into such a poor resault. I am not happy with either but it is what I have.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
To really do it right you’d need to know the MLB average chances of a double play in all baserunner situations, find an expected double play % based on the baserunner situations Pablo (or whoever we do it for) faced, and compare his actual double play % to it and regress an appropriate amount based on the how quickly the population normalizes…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Just how radically a DP effects game state has always facinated me. It seems like something Saber stats should be able to conquer ( accurately quanitfy) in the next 10 years or so. Unlike the Will of the Wisp that is numericaly proveing ( or disproving) clutch hitting for all time.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
10 years?! This is the age of the internet. If someone comes up with a good idea, it should take 10 days!
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions
No of us think its simple. I was tossing out the crude bit of knowledge I have. I did it because if nothing else pops up it gives us fans that grew up with bubble cards a way to handle the numbers relate them to game situations. Also it tends to be when the more Stat knowledge chime in and show me my errors and ways to do even the crude methods better. The McCoven are great with that.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
So I just looked it up, Rally has Sandoval as exactly average this past season at grounding into double plays, and 1 run better than average last season.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions
*I do not know Rally’s methodology though I’d guess it’s just what I described without the regressing aspect since he’s going for past value rather than trying to be predictive, I believe.
So:
To really do it right you’d need to know the MLB average chances of a double play in all baserunner situations, find an expected double play % based on the baserunner situations Pablo (or whoever we do it for) faced, and compare his actual double play % to it
would be my guess.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
So then do they adjest for pitch type or would that be considerred back ground noise?
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
That is a good thought. My initial reaction is you’re opening up a can of worms – if you adjust for pitch type, then you really should adjust for pitcher, defense, etc….usually most of that stuff ends up adding marginal amounts of useful information while adding additional uncertainty. Worth thinking about, though. I would start off by just using baserunner state, then maybe play around with extra variables to see if they add anything meaningful.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
so please bear with me here
means the above Rally methodology indicates that Pablo’s record GIDP year was more related to baserunning situation than his actual hitting?
Nah, you’re adjusting for baserunning situation because obviously a guy who comes up with a runner on first and less than two outs (oh something I forgot, definitely adjust for out situation!) more often is going to hit into more double plays through no fault of his own, but just because it’s a possibility more often.
So basically this is what you do:
Take total number of PA’s, and total number of double plays and get a percentage.
Next, look at plate appearances for:
1—
2
-3
12
1-3
-23
123
Which is all the possible baserunner situations a player can hit in (and for less than 2 outs, of course). You get an MLB average for % of double plays for each one. Then you multiply that % by the total PA’s Pablo had in each of those baserunner states to give you an expected number of double plays per baserunner state. Subtract expected from observed, and multiply by run value of a double play in that state, and add it all up, and you get his run value above/below average.
Basically, what I’m talking about is controlling for baserunner state so not only do you compare how many double plays they hit into, but compare it based on the number of times they had a chance to hit into a double play.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok understood
Semantics. DP’s are impt. GIDP is not a stat that is indicative of the quality of the hitter. Agree.
I’m not interested in watching Pablo hit against Halladay, Oswalt, or Hamels.
I have no doubt it will be ugly and demoralizing.
Sandoval v Halladay
.500/.500/.750
Don’t ask me how many ABs.
Look – Pablos problem is that he swings at shit out of the zone.
Roy Halladay doesn’t really throw shit out of the zone.
I’m pretty sure Halladay would have the ability and the wherewithal to throw pitches out of the zone if he was pitching to Sandoval.
Yeah, really
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by Useful_Idiot on Oct 12, 2010 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, you know,
he’s actually not a REAL doctor, so, take that how you will
Monday Monkey lives for the weekend, sir.
Do not let him examine your genitals
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You may have the key stats for Bochy
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by bondslegend on Oct 12, 2010 1:50 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Just like Michael Crabtree?
"Too much awesome on my feet."-Brian Wilson
"Time for the laser show, boys!"- Aubrey Huff
Pablo's only upside is a greater dinger possibility, BUT even that is a low probability.
Fontenot’s game is better in every other way. Takes more pitches, can walk, steal a base, take an extra base, bunt, put the ball in play, avoid GiDP, range…..
Fontenot, and I don’t even think it’s close.
This is the post season; these are the best pitchers. Not the time for a wing and a prayer. The Giants only chance is to play better baseball, and Fontenot does that better than Pablo.
And the worst part, those fukin’ douchenozzles over at the MCC get to lord this over us.
Stolen Bases 2010
Fontenot: 1 SB, 4 CS
Sandoval: 3 SB, 2 CS
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Walk Rate 2010
Fontenot: 5.8%
Sandoval: 7.6%
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Strikeout Rate 2010
Fontenot: 15.7%
Sandoval: 13.1%
As an aside, hasn’t “putting the ball in play” (i.e., GIDP) been one of the biggest criticisms of Pablo this year?
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
do you have numbers for the last 6 weeks?
And the worst part, those fukin’ douchenozzles over at the MCC get to lord this over us.
Fontenot career GiDP 16, Pablo just this year: 26!
And the worst part, those fukin’ douchenozzles over at the MCC get to lord this over us.
In 7 games either could easily go 0 for the Series
or hit .500 it is small sample theater. Sandoval will hit for more power, and has had flashes of dominance. While it is unlikely either one will decide the series Sandoval is the better play
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
GIDP is not indicative of offensive production. Look at the top 10 in GIDP this year. There are good hitters and bad ones. It’s not a good stat to be hung up about.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
It is something that can be factored into linear weights….
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
walk rates with the Giants essentially identical
And the worst part, those fukin’ douchenozzles over at the MCC get to lord this over us.
Right
And as someone else pointed out, the unintentional walk rate favors Fontenot. I believe Pablo’s power makes up for this though.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
doesn't impress me; who would you send?
And the worst part, those fukin’ douchenozzles over at the MCC get to lord this over us.
neither
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Fontenot isn't great, but Pablo looks helpless, esp against good pitching
And the worst part, those fukin’ douchenozzles over at the MCC get to lord this over us.
You may well be right
But just re-read what you wrote.
Imagine a year ago if someone told you the Giants were going to be in the NLCS in 2010, and you were advocating starting Mike Fontenot over Pablo Sandoval.
We’re truly through the looking glass here.
"I could hear the angry MCC cacophany in my head."--Oldjacket, 7/4/10
my head would explode, because we’re going to the NLCS!!!
Pablo is such a free-swinger, who didn’t honestly see this coming? i dont mean like clear as day, but did you guys ever wonder what would happen when pitchers started throwing junk off the plate? he showed no discipline last year, it was inevitable
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
but did you guys ever wonder what would happen when pitchers started throwing junk off the plate? he showed no discipline last year, it was inevitable
Pitchers did not start throwing junk off the plate. That is simply not true. He was pitched to almost the exact same way last year.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
(They didn’t start throwing junk off the plate because they already were throwing junk off the plate)
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
seems to me he was getting a whole lot more good pitches to hit last year than he is this year. catchers didnt stand up last year asking for the high fastball like they do now.
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
the secret is out on pablo this year. he wouldn’t have put up the stats he did last year if he was being pitched to the same as this year
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Fangraphs.com. Know it, love it. They have a lot of the things we’re talking about, you should check it out. He really has been pitched to almost the exact same, at least for the data they show (the proportion of each pitch he’s been thrown, how often he swings at balls/strikes, makes contact with balls/strikes, swings and misses, gets a first pitch strike, how many pitches are throw in the strike zone)…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
So he basically just got dumber during the offseason?
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"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Oct 12, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Dumber? He’s doing everything the same. He just stopped hitting the ball hard consistently like he did last season. I have no idea why. It might just be a fluke.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Bochy sticks with Fontenot
But if he struggles in the first couple of games, I bet we’ll see Pablo by game 3.
"Too much awesome on my feet."-Brian Wilson
"Time for the laser show, boys!"- Aubrey Huff
Game 3 is the left handed Hamels
It will be Uribe at 3rd, Renteria at short, which I am totally fine with.
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I voted Mike for two reasons:
- I can’t stand watching Uribe and Pablo in the same lineup when they’re swinging at anything that moves
- The bigger the situation, the more Pablo forgets everything he’s told and just hacks away. He admitted this himself
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Agreed
I voted Fontenot simply because he’s more patient at the plate.
"Too much awesome on my feet."-Brian Wilson
"Time for the laser show, boys!"- Aubrey Huff
Yet, he actually walks LESS than Pablo
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
This isn't tue
Fontenot’s career BB% is 8.8, Pablo’s is 7.3.
Pablo’s unintentional walk rate this year 5.68, Fontenot’s is also 5.74 (in a small 260 sample; you can expect better)
by kingofthacove on Oct 12, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Is this a one-year shot? Or do the Giants have the ability to contend for several years? Which player figures more prominently in the next few years for the Giants?
If you take the long view, there is no greater teacher than experience and you should get Pablo playing time in big games. He’s gotta learn and it ain’t gonna happen on the bench. If you’re in the ‘win now’ camp, there’s still a debate to be had.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Great question
I think they have a chance to contend in the future, but you take your best shot each time they make the playoffs. Pablo can have the whole off-season, ST and regular season to work on whatever he needs to work on.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
Two main things: conditioning and mental approach in game situations. One can be worked on in the off season, one can’t. I still think the difference between Grantenot and Panda is small enough (and Pablo’s elusive upside is good enough) that the balance tips in favor of developing what is still a very young player. We may just disagree on this, but there it is.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I would agree with you if...
…Panda was consistent, but the fact that he gets so much more keyed up in critical situations makes me cringe.
He’s currently just too “un-clutch” to trust with the game on the line.
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
I can see that he seems to have a poor approach in high stakes situations (I actually thought that watching him play in the Venezuelan winter league championship last year).
My point is you don’t learn to relax in high pressure situations by avoiding high pressure situations. Since Panda is going to be on this team for a number of years I think the Giants may just have to bite the bullet and throw him out there.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
In the NLCS win now is the ony approach
You may never get back. You take your shot.
I’m still wondering – is Pablo broken? How do we know?
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions
He is this year and other thoughts.
He stunk. There is no real kind way to put it. Hey maybe they can put him back together prior to the series. But by any metric you use (and also by that dreaded eyeballing) he was lousy this year. And he was particularly lousy when it mattered most. Sandoval was a guy pegged (and needed) to drive in runs. He hit himself right out of the middle of the order. His RISP was atrocious (.207) His late inning average .167. 12 of his 13 HR’s were solo. In short – he was not someone you wanted up in a key situation.
Plus as you well know he looks awful at the plate half the time. Off balance. Chasing everything. And I am not certain that I agree that he expanded the zone as much last year. There is chasing and there is chasing. Pablo will swing at lot of pitches out of the zone. Fine. Its the 55 foot slider that he swings at that leaves you shaking your head. And he does it a lot. He’s also had a lot of problems with high heat this year. He did seem to handle that better last year. Why the difference – who knows.
This whole Fontenot Sandoval debate has been interesting. Because I think it higlights different viewpoints people have and different ways people look at the game. There is no question that Sandoval over the long haul is the better player. Fontenot is a career utility guy for a reason. That, however, is not the issue. The issue is who helps you more (or maybe more accurately hurts you less) in a short series given how both are playing right now.
Where I think the stats approach does not work is in a situation such as this. Over 162 games a player generally finds their level. Thus the metrics are very helpful. I’m nNot so sure in a situation such as this, where you have a player that is struggling so mightily that it appears it is in his head. A manager (with the assistance of his coaching staff) can and should take that into account as well. Otherwise you just hire a statistician, pop out numbers and play accordingly.
As I said in another post – if Pablo plays, I hope against hope that I am dead wrong. My bet is he plays the first game cause of his numbers versus Halladay. (That Bochy matchup thing) If he does well, he keeps playing. Here’s hoping.
But by any metric you use (and also by that dreaded eyeballing) he was lousy this year.
I don’t think anyone disagrees that he did not play well this year. The question is why, and is it predictive of future performance, because that’s what matters. It looks to me like you’ve come up with the same answer I have:
Why the difference – who knows.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
"Fontenot is a career utility guy . . ."
Only because managers choose to treat him that way. As an everyday player at second base, he would probably be rather impressive.
Sabean delenda est!
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
you said “The bigger the situation, the more Pablo forgets everything he’s told and just hacks away.”
in the 2nd to last game vs SD, Sandoval took an outside corner pitch and roped it into LF, looking just like the Pablo of old. What happened there? that could arguably be the biggest AB of his life right there
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
If I remember the AB, tit was with nobody on
It’s the RISP ABs that kill me.
He looked pretty hacktastic in thegames vs. The Braves including a critical FPOM with RISP
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
I think he was referring to the game on Saturday when Pablo came up with runners on the corner and 1 out. He had an RBI single before Guillen grounded into a double play.
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Oct 12, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
How much can we read into how he looked. As someone pointed out somewhere else, Freddy Sanchez looked bad on his swings right before he hit a big single to keep the rally alive. How meaningful are a few bad PA’s, and do they mean anything with regards to future performance?
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Freddy swung it from the belly button for two pitches. With two strikes, he sacrificed the dream of being tomorrow’s headline on kept the line moving, as they say. That’s one good PA, not two bad ones followed by a good one. Not saying Pablo (or Uribe) never adopt the same mindset, but it would appear to be a much rarer event. They go down in flames quite often.
Yeah, that’s their style, it worked for Pablo last year.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions
And it isn’t a style that’s going to change, not without a mental overhaul that can’t happen in the next week. That’s why I’m in the Fontenot camp. If Fontenot gets overmatched at the plate or clanks it up, then go with a wing and a prayer and Pablo.
I’m still not seeing where we established that there’s an actual problem besides random variation with Pablo…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Or perhaps Pablo is returning to where free swingers eventually return to. Only time will tell, something the Giants don’t have much left of this year. I like hitters who approach the plate more professionally, and, in Pablo’s case, the physical demands of his profession more rigorously, so, yes, I’ll admit most, or all of it, is personal bias. If they start him, great, I hope to hell he he tears it up.
Such is life – decisions on imperfect information. I’m just trying to figure out what the information we do have tells us, and all I’ve figured out is I don’t know what’s going on with Pablo……
That said, it does appear that Pablo’s mean is higher than Fontenot’s, given that as bad as Pablo hit this year compared to last, he was still as good a hitter as Fontenot is, and obviously last year he was way better…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ll only add that personally, I’ve been in shape, and badly out of shape. No matter what you do you perform better physically, in shape. You perform better mentally, in shape. The odds are long that Pablo is an exception to that general rule.
Oh I agree completely, I just think Pablo was also out of shape last year, when he hit well. It’s a very legitimate concern, but not really something that’s “different” in a meaningful way from 2009 to 2010.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
With 2 strikes
Freddie Sanchez: tOPS+ 58
Pablo Sandoval: tOPS+ 49
Juan Uribe: tOPS+ 40
David Eckstein: tOPS+ 67 (positive control)
(tOPS+ is the relative OPS for each individual player – so Uribe hits 40% as good with 2 strikes as Uribe does on any count.
I have to say – this kind of supports your arguement. However, the 2010 NL as a whole had a 44 tOPS with 2 strikes so for SANDOVAL in particular, he’s actually a little better than average with 2 strikes (Sanchez and Eckstein both being excellent with 2 strikes)
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
The key of this series is to get into the Phillies Bullpen, the only chink on their armor
When Roy Halladay throws that cutter that is barely off the plate on the outside corner, Pablo is going to swing at it. He is going to roll it over to Jimmy Rollins, and there will be at least one, maybe two outs as a result. On the first pitch.
With Uribe already in the lineup that I can count on to do that, at this stage I would rather have Fontenot in the batter’s box, who stands a better chance of fouling off about 7 pitches and tries to work a long at bat from Halladay and Oswalt.
I know this is “eyeballing”, but at this stage, I simply don’t trust Pablo to not take a hack at a close pitch. That is what Halladay does. That is what Hamels does. They make close pitches around the plate and cause hitters to put it weakly into play.
I would rather have Mike Fontenot.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I wonder what kind of hitter is most likely to succeed against Halladay. Does working the count really help? He never walks anyone. Maybe the best approach is to swing hard and hope you run into one.
He’s not going to throw 150 pitches. Everybody should go up there and look to foul 7 pitches off the first time through the lineup.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
oh i know. Approach does not equal success.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
He threw 132 in a game in May!
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
Halladay is a horse
120 won’t phase him a bit.
No approach is going to be good against Halladay. That’s why you walk the bases loaded in front of him in the sixth inning so Manuel has to pinch hit for him.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
by cheno on Oct 12, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sixth inning?
Why not the third?
"I could hear the angry MCC cacophany in my head."--Oldjacket, 7/4/10
Same here lol.
But we gotta make it look good.
Pablo Sandoval: The Triforce of Courage
Buster Posey: The Triforce of Wisdom
Brandon Belt: The Triforce of Power
A question on eyeballing
Why is that irrelevant. This board obviously has a lot of folks that watch a ton of baseball. Eyeballing is another tool. Particularly when you are talking not about the long haul (where things tend to reach their statistical norm more often than not), but a short series.
It's not that it's irrelevant
as that it’s very subject to bias, whether intentional or not. We all have our favorite and unfavorite players and cut them more or less slack, often without even thinking.
Also, very few of us watch every inning of every game. If I watch 2 games in a month and see a shortstop boot grounders in both of them, I’m going to think he’s a terrible fielder. However, if those were the only 2 errors he made all month, he’s a lot better than I think he is.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
Well
the eyeballs that matter – Muellens Bochy Wotus do watch every inning of every game. And actually I think a lot of folks on this board come pretty damn close. I know I do.
As for bias – you are right.
Pablo, btw, is one of my favorite Giants. Love the guy. Rooting like mad for him.
Free Pablo
I have a feeling he’s gonna have a big series in the NLCS. Start him against Halladay and Oswalt, sit him against Hamels. His lefty/righty splits are pretty drastic .282/.336/.443 vs. .227/.284/.305.
His upside is way way higher than Fontenot’s. Don’t get me wrong, I like Mike, but he’s not a better defensive third baseman (career FP .956 vs. .962 for Pablo) and all Pablo needs is to get his confidence back. Gave him two games to clear his mind, and now, turn him loose.
If Bochy lets him play, which he should, he’ll have a huge series. I don’t know if anyone’s pointed this out, but he can hit these guys. Lifetime he is 2-4 with a double vs. Halladay, and 3-9 with a double, homer and a walk vs. Hamels.
"No matter how hard you try, it's not easy." Armando Benitez, 9-12-06
are those career splits
or 2010. You should probably use career.
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
but see
nobody’s having the argument of career pablo vs. career fontenot. If that was the question (if we thought the guy with a line of .305/.356/.484 was available) we’d all choose him in a second. but it’s not, and that guy seems to have disappeared. it’s 2010, or even right-now pablo vs right-now fontenot. the whole basis for the debate is what have you done for me lately?
so I chose 2010 splits.
"No matter how hard you try, it's not easy." Armando Benitez, 9-12-06
the whole basis for the debate is what have you done for me lately?
No, the whole basis is “what are you going to do for me?” From that perspective, there are a lot of factors to consider. Career lines are an important piece of figuring that out.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
In this case, both 2010 and career splits tell the same story
Both Sandoval and Fontenot have significant platoon splits and are much worse against LHP. Sandoval’s a better hitter overall and the splits don’t negate that.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
Pablo's career splits are actually quite different than his 2010
Career:
as lefty (vs. right) .308/.359/.500
as righty (vs. left) .296/346/.435
as you can see, not much of a split.
In 2010 (see above) that changed significantly.
"No matter how hard you try, it's not easy." Armando Benitez, 9-12-06
His minor league splits were pretty clear about it though. He’s always been way way worse as a righty except for last year.
That leads me to believe that last year’s numbers against lefties were a fluke.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
You're right the split was smaller
But my basic point stands – whether you use 2010 or career numbers, either way Sandoval is a better hitter than Fontenot, against either LHP or RHP.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
You don't have the luxury of two games to clear someone's mind
in a 7 game series.
At this point
I feel like the Giants will need a great performance from somebody to beat the Phillies. Pablo is a good candidate. Fontenot can be okay, and the Giants could still lose in 5 or 6 games.
Maybe Pablo goes off. I think that’s what you hope for. If he’s 0-12 after 3 games with 17 double plays, maybe you bench him.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
It’s pretty hard to get 17 double plays in 0-12, you’d have to hit 5 sac flies and have the runner trying to advance get tagged out.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Fontenot vs lefties?
I’ll take Edgar Renteria for 200 dollars, Alex.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
You should go look at Fontenot’s LHP/RHP splits and decide if you still want to ask that question.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
Yeah, not a good idea
I finally read through the comments after I posted this and I liked the suggested changes including Rent and Mole.
Here, I'll do your homework for you
Fontenot career splits
vs RHP: .276/.345/.422
vs LHP: .230/.284/.338
Sandoval career splits:
vs RHP: 308/.359/.500
vs LHP: .296/.346/.435
Fontenot 2010 splits:
vs RHP: .288/.335/.381
vs LHP: .214/.267/.286
Sandoval 2010 splits:
vs RHP: .282/ .336/.443
vs LHP: .227/.284 /.305
So, valid options vs LHP are either Sandoval or “none of the above”.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
Yeah, I meant between Pablo and Grant, so Renteria would be covered under “none of the above”.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
I read that as none. I prefer to not read the last 3 words of every post. It spices things up.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
Team Pablo
If Pablo can loosen up after his first playoff series (all of the Giants batters looked tight except for Posey and Ross), then he should start. His groundball proclivities notwithstanding, I can’t help but recall that when he’s focused and not pressing, he hit an HR off of Latos. I still have the clinching game against the Pads on my DVR and I love watching his AB against Frieri. Ludwick robbed him of a hit, but that AB showcased his plate coverage and eye when he’s “on”. That wasn’t August Pablo, that was just 2 weeks ago.
I like playing the Panda.
He is a deep threat against pitchers that make them have to think about him when he is on deck. Also if he bats 8th and Uribe bats 7th then that is a dangerous bottom half of an order.
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 12, 2010 2:16 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Cody Ross feels comfortable batting 8th
I doubt Bochy would move Ross up in the lineup, but a 6-7-8 of Uribe-Sandoval-Ross is still formidable.
by TimLaser and MattyC on Oct 12, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
He is a deep threat against pitchers that make them have to think about him when he is on deck.
Do you honestly think this is the case? With this rotation?
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Oct 12, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
It might be worth considering that the general consensus around the league is different than ours. This occurred to me when Cox chose to intentionally walk Sandoval to pitch to Ross. Obviously him being benched for those last two games probably doesn’t help things, but I would venture to guess that most managers and players around the league think that Sandoval is a threat for many of the same reasons people voting for Sandoval in this poll based on his upside have already put forth.
I feel that they aren’t just going to feel like"hey this guy stinks now so just pitch to him." and throw him all fastballs. He still has a reputation for being a great fastball hitter and I think that will make them throw more low and away hoping to get him to swing away. If he doesn’t then Pablo can be very effective in this series.
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 12, 2010 2:45 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This brings us to the age-old question – I really want them to order Pablo like once a game to just fucking stand there and not swing at anything. Make it look genuine and not on a straight-take, but don’t swing. I wonder if that would show him that he would probably have a fucking .600 OBP without even moving the bat off his shoulder.
I've often wondered about giving him a take a strike order
Just because I think that might take some pressure off him. Its painful watching him with RISP. He is so amped that even when he takes a pitch, it apears to be a struggle in his mind.
Cox=not smart manager
And the worst part, those fukin’ douchenozzles over at the MCC get to lord this over us.
BTW, I'm totally ecstatic that we are having this conversation today
Gaslamp Ball is discussing starting rotation options for 2011
TBLA is discussing their minor league affiliate’s season in a capsule
Purple Row is still bitter about losing because of injuries and refuse to give the Giants credit
MCC? WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHO IS GOING TO PLAY IN A MOTHERFUCKING GAME THAT IS 5 MOTHERFUCKING DAYS AWAY. Five. That’s the number of fingers that my hand has. Do you know how many hands I need to count the number of days until those other three teams will play a major league baseball game that counts?
34.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
by jctGamer on Oct 12, 2010 2:24 PM PDT reply actions 6 recs
rec'd
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
If I had 34 hands...
…I’d never leave the house!
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
did we already forfeit Game 1 to the Phils?
show some heart, Giants
by TimLaser and MattyC on Oct 12, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Giants play on Saturday
4 days away
by TimLaser and MattyC on Oct 12, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Well it's 4 and a half days
and my thumb is kinda short
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Thanks for the handy reminder.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
PR: We’re the best 3rd place of all time!
Belted!
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Oct 12, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Ha.
I went to PR because of this post. Same ol’ same ol’ but I still get mystified when I see people talk about how unlikeable this Giants team is when we keep being amazed at how likeable they are.
I know, this has been talked about all the time. But every time I come across it it still shocks me.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
Honestly
The Rockies fans probably feel that their team is remarkably likable. And yet, there we were the last few years they were in the playoffs, rooting against them and talking about how much we hated them. It’s a function of playing the same team so many damn times in one year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
And how hateable the Rockies are.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sure that has something to do with it
It’s just so weird to me.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
I don’t find it weird at all. I think I could dislike most of the Giants players if the played for another team. The only guy I see as being universally likable is Torres.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you hate Chad Billingsley or Clayton Kershaw? I hate them both. Matt Cain being hated on makes sense to me. Plus, there’s the whole David Wright thing. Mets fans still hate him for that.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions
well dodgers vs giants
of course rivalry over everything. But other than that i can’t see anyone hating on matt cain. I probably wouldn’t hate kershaw if he were on any other team. Billingsley seem like a douche to me though.
And met fans are retarded, it’s not like he meant to hit david wright. accidents happen.
by kezargiants on Oct 13, 2010 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I think it was the hat tip that really pissed them off.
"He knocks a stake through the heart of the Cardinals! The Cardinals are dead! The Giants are going to the World Series!!!" -Jon Miller
t's Posey time!!
Screw you Flannery.
oh yeah
forgot about that. Well he was just reacting to the unwarranted boos. But i get it now.
by kezargiants on Oct 13, 2010 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions
It was also the fact that Wright had a pretty long period starting from that very AB where he wasn’t as good as he was before.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Think of how bizarre Padres fans must find our hatred of everyone on their team.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
But see
I don’t hate all of the Padres. Just a select few.
Eckstein
Hairston
Torrealba
…
That’s it.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
And I fully admit that the Hairston hate is only because he was inordinately good against us
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
No Latos?
Pablo Sandoval: The Triforce of Courage
Buster Posey: The Triforce of Wisdom
Brandon Belt: The Triforce of Power
I don't hate Latos
…but I am Latos-intolerant.
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
Latos?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
For Fleming's car, right?
Yeah, I guess so.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
Dude. Not even just that.
Pablo Sandoval: The Triforce of Courage
Buster Posey: The Triforce of Wisdom
Brandon Belt: The Triforce of Power
And the rest of the douchery?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Yeah, I guess so
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
Man, I hate like their entire pitching staff besides Correia.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
He's awesome and was actually one of the better starters for them last year.
Pablo Sandoval: The Triforce of Courage
Buster Posey: The Triforce of Wisdom
Brandon Belt: The Triforce of Power
Yeah, but he sucked this year, when it really mattered.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
I was kidding you know.
But still, I like the guy.
Pablo Sandoval: The Triforce of Courage
Buster Posey: The Triforce of Wisdom
Brandon Belt: The Triforce of Power
I thought it was a valid criticism.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
I hate Correia's haircut
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
I don’t think we’re the ones making racist, homophobic and sexist slurs about the their players and their fanbase.
“Tim Liksumcum.”
Very clever.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
WE would never badmouth another team or their fanbase… never.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 13, 2010 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions
We would, but I think we, for the most part, have a certain line that we won’t cross.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
It’s why this place is special.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 13, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I like how PR apparently thinks the Giants are still hung up on the humidor
I’m pretty sure the idea of the humidor hasn’t crossed a single Giants players mind since the end of that series.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I like the indignation
at anyone not wearing a purple jersey examining the freezer or the frozen baseballs.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure that in his postgame interview on Thursday, Tim Lincecum said “See what I can do when I don’t have to deal with the juiced ball at Coors Field?”
On Friday, Ramon Ramirez was emphatically telling the umpire that the ball felt light, as if it had been shipped in from Colorado.
Of course, it doesn’t always go against the Giants. Brooks Conrad missed Posey’s grounder because he was trying to mentally calculate Larry Walker’s 1997 batting line adjusted for current Coors Field conditions, and he kept coming up with .260/.315/.434
It had nothing to do with yesterday though.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
by groug on Oct 12, 2010 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Just think of how well they would have played if they hadn’t been thinking about the Rockies and the humidor the whole time!!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Impossible
The Rockies are all that could ever matter to this team.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
DeRosa and Runzler figured to be big parts but were filled with better parts in Pat Burrell and Javier Lopez.
And whose fault is it for the Rockies not finding adequate replacements for their injured players?
"My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder." -Zinedine Zidane
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Oct 12, 2010 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
If they get to complain about Jeff Francis being injured, we get to cancel him out with Noah Lowry complaints.
by Grant Brisbee on Oct 12, 2010 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Really?
he’s extraordinarily handsome
I just don’t see it
Proudly adopted Aubrey Huff. You can't beat that!
If he got a nose job maybe.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know if it’s irrational faith, or just faith that the Pablo that drives the ball returns….that isn’t irrational at all, just hopeful
"A 1-0 Loss is the fault of our pitching staff" Bruce Bochy/Brian Sabean
by Cant_buy_a_run on Oct 12, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
If it isn’t based on logic and/or reason, it’s irrational.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
More importantly
Should Dan Runzler be on the roster this series, and, if so, who do you replace?
Personally I’d put Runzler on instead of RamRam.
Worst strikeout rate. Marginally better walk rate. Flyball pitcher. Makes sense.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
that's what I just did in the bathroom 20 min ago.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I would rather not bank our postseason roster on one of our starting pitchers getting blasted. I have enough confidence in them to at least get us through 4 innings at the WORST, at which point it is entirely feasible that the rest of the bullpen can pick them up for the rest of the game. Ramirez and Casilla, even Runzler have thrown 1+ innings in the past.
The thing about 7 game series is you need a long reliever
Just in case one of your SPs blows up…need to save bullpen for a winnable game…
It’s not like if Runzler comes in, it’s not going to be a blowout.
You don’t need a long reliever with our top 4. Can you even remember the last time one of them got blown up? I think it was MadBum back in that Reds game, but other than that, they are very, very, very solid.
And Runzler is hardly only blowout material, he’s a very good reliever. Maybe a few issues with control, but his numbers are sharp, and I want a third lefty (especially because Affeldt scares me) against this lineup.
I can see it now:
Bumgarner gets lifted after 3 due to high pitch count, maybe giving up 3 runs.
Zito comes in and lasts 0.2 innings giving up 7 runs.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
Let me put it to you this way
If we need Long Relief at any point this series, we’re probably not going to win it anyway.
Hey, a comrade!
I supported Zito over Mota last round for the last relief spot. Of course the games were all low-scoring and they didn’t use Mota (and wouldn’t have used Zito either), but that’s just it – the only way they’re going to use the last reliever is a blowout or a long extra-inning game. Either way, might as well have somebody who can eat innings and save the good relievers.
but doesn’t Zeets have some big pre-game psych routine? this makes a successful relief role not so probable….
Fair point
and that might be why they chose Mota in the first place. But I just can’t imagine the situation where I’m thinking “I wish Mota were available”, and I can for Zito, though of course I hope it doesn’t happen.
This. I don’t trust either, but I think I trust Runzler a little more – he has better stuff and he has the southpaw advantage against that lineup. Can’t hurt to have a third lefty in the pen with Utley/Howard/Ibanez.
Then dump Mota
Ramirez has been nails from the day he got to the Giants. He made one mistake to Ankiel (in his second inning of work).
Runzler has barely pitched in two months. So he’s not on my roster. But if he is – its for Mota not Ramirez.
He has a sub .200 BABIP
He’s really not this good
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Ok
He’s getting people out. 24 base runners in 27 innings. 1 HR (regular season with Giants.) And he has not been getting hit hard.
Runzler may be useful as the Phils have so many key lefties. But the place he takes is Mota’s. Not Ramirez.
Zito isn’t an option as far as I’m concerned. I’m not worried about long relief. In that instances, the games over and you pick a reliever to take one for the team.
I’m worried about the game that goes 13 innings. YOu have one guy left in the bullpen. I don’t want that to be Zito. We saw that movie in the Reds comeback game. Scary ending.
Yes but . . .
. . . with the smoke blown away and the mirrors shattered, he’s still a pretty good reliever. To say that a guy is not really superlative after all does not translate to “so he’s actually rather awful”—he’s just pretty good, not superhuman.
Sabean delenda est!
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Runzler over Mota
Runzler could be critical against Utley & Howard
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
/shift-A
I believe in Pablo, but I think I’m on Fontenot’s side here.
I'm still in the old thread.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Oct 12, 2010 2:29 PM PDT reply actions
Yes, definitely Pablo next year, but I think Fontenot gives us a better chance on both sides of the ball right now.
by kingofthacove on Oct 12, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
OT - from the SF_Giants twitter feed:
NLCS schedule on FOX:
Sat 4:57PM PT
Sun 5:19PM PT
Tues 1:19PM PT
Weds 4:57PM PT
Thurs 4:57PM PT
Sat 12:57PM PT
Sun 4:57PM PT
In awe of his adopted dad: equipment manager Mike Murphy, who has been with the club since their move to San Francisco in 1958!
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
WTF with Tuesday?
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Fox and MLB
self-fulfilling prophecy FTW!
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL FOX DOESN’T HAVE THE ALCS.
Never thought I would have been happy to watch a Fox broadcast but after sitting through TBS I am happy.
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I meant
airing the NL game when it can’t be watched may not exactly help entice new viewers to watch.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I know. But I just like to LOL Fox for not getting the Yankees.
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
It's cool
then the ESPN talking heads can go on tv and shout about poor ratings and why the Yankees HAVE to be in the World Series for baseball to survive. The amount of hypocracy they have in criticinze the general public for not getting hyped about certain events, when they are the biggest hype machine in the sporting world is just ridiculous.
2007ish.. A’s vs Detroit in the ALCS – leadoff SC story, “what went wrong with the Yankees? They have no starting pitching, they need to go out and add some pitchers. They should sign Zito AND Schmidt” ALCS highlites didn’t come until the 40 minute marker, and of course lasted with 2 5 second clips, followed by another round table discussion about the Yankees.
This was actually liberating moment as the absurdity and bias of the coverage was just so overwhelming that I realized I can just watch less ESPN and be much happier with my life. the sad par theough, is tha tthe general public will continue to think that Yankees, LeBron, Favre, Manning, Lakers are way more important than the actual sports themselves
by Ice Watter In His Veins! on Oct 14, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I realized I can just watch less ESPN and be much happier with my life.
This is a great revelation. I enjoy sports so much more being off the ESPN hype machine.
by Missing Barry on Oct 14, 2010 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I just like the fact that I get to watch the Giants on FOX in October.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
I’m well aware. I’ll take that trade any day.
Joe Buck or no playoffs. You pick.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
Joe Buck + Playoffs or Playoffs + TBS crew
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Joe Buck guarantees my TV is on mute.
by shaggingflyballs on Oct 12, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m so confused by this thread. What’s wrong with TBS? Why is Joe Buck good? I’d take TBS over Fox any day of the week, though I will admit TBS is much better with their A crew. I’ll also say I had problems with the camera crew at TBS – too much cutting to the pitch right before it happens. Still, I’ll take it all over Fox.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought they had a lot of mistakes when talking about players and shit.
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
For just the Giants series or for the whole thing?
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
The Giants series. I wasn’t able to watch a lot else as I have a test and need to study
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I wasn’t a big fan of the ones for the Giants series – but I don’t think that’s their lead team. I like Ron Darling. I liked Chip Caray, not sure what happened to him. Ernie Johnson seemed fine though I personally have him so connected to basketball it just seemed wrong.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I believe DrDC was saying that if Joe Buck was doing the game, that meant we were in the LCS or WS, and that is a good thing.
The TBS announcers were annoying to me personally to the point that I synchronized my TV and MLB at bat on my iphone so I could listen to Jon et al. They pronounced names poorly, got players wrong, mixed up players from both teams involved in plays and basically sounded like announcers for another sport.
by shaggingflyballs on Oct 12, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
actually, you’re right, he was fine. It was the other guy that made me want to delete my speakers. Good point.
by shaggingflyballs on Oct 12, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
He was on and off. He had some pretty insightful Giants things to say that I didn’t think a lot of color commentators would know about. At the same time, he was guilty of many of the same errors that Stockton was (for example, saying Wilson was off with control – when it seemed more that he was nibbling to avoid giving in, not to mention the moving strikezone, or saying that Fontenot’s error in throwing to 2nd was a “routine double play ball” when there were 2 outs).
I think the real problem we had with TBS this season over normal
was the bias they were showing towards the Braves. Stockton practically came out of his chair at every ball the Braves put in play.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
agreed
but otherwise I’m with mb, anyone but Joe Buck Yourself and McCarver.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
My only real complaint is there were some instances where they cut to the pitcher too close to the pitch. For instance, in one of the games they were talking to Wotus, and they put the camera on Wotus’ face, would quickly cut to a pitch, and go back to Wotus. We don’t need to see him, just hear what he has to say. Maybe show him initially to give the viewers an idea who’s talking, but the action is what’s important, so just give the audio of him with the video of the play. So they did that every once in a while. But overall, I much prefere TBS to Fox. I hate Fox.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Every fan thinks the media is biased against their team.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
I am pretty sure every one of those fan bases is even more convinced than we are that the media is biased against their teams.
it's funny reading some nat'l baseball writers
and realizing that all they care about is the east coast. Someone i follow on twitter has been talking about the Mets GM search instead of the playoffs. Also, Gammons is all red sox all the time.
The idea of an east coast bias has been debunked.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
What is the idea of an east coast bias, exactly?
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
The the media has a specific agenda to only cover, and only favor, west coast teams.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
I assume you meant east coast? I tend to think of things as how they’re related to the media covering them – ESPN is in NY/NE land so those markets get extra attention, in CFB ESPN has a deal with the SEC so that’s extra coverage for them, NY is a media hub in general so extra coverage, etc. I guess I’m just curious as to whatever research you’re talking about, how, exactly, they defined “east coast bias”….
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Research? I’m talking about the general idea on this site and many other sites revolving around west coast teams that there is an east coast bias, when the overwhelming evidence shows there is not.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
I’m interested in this… any links to the evidence?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
How about the overwhelming coverage given to the Lakers, the Cavaliers, the Packers, the Vikings, the Cowboys, the Vikings, USC and Barry Bonds? And how about the relative lack of coverage of the New York Giants, the Knicks, the Nets and any northeast college The media will always cover whatever is the story the most people are interested in. And most of the time, the story the most people are interested in are the stars. And it just so happens that because the Yankees and Red Sox are always able to sign the biggest stars, they get the most coverage in baseball.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
EAST COAST BIAS (may not apply to south west, mid west and steroids)
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
So… no actual evidence then. I wasn’t even doubting your premise, just asking for a link to a study or something.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
If there’s a study saying that there actually is an east coast bias, I’m sure there would be a study saying there isn’t.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
Oh, well, I’ll just take your word for it then.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Well
i wouldn’t say that it has anything to do with Stars outside of ESPN being ridiculous
. The national baseball writers will only cover the east coast because that is usually where they live and they don’t stay up to watch west coast baseball/sports. so i’d say the ECB very much exists, if only because it’s what it the easiest for the media.
Evidence?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
well
Just look at where the national baseball writers are headquartered. Some of the more prominent ones live in places in new england, new york city, miami, etc. It’s not like you have Peter Gammons and Tom Verducci living in San Jose or anything. The people who write the big feature stories for magazines like SI or papers like the NYT, USA today, do not live in the west coast. Hell, you can’t even get the giants score in those papers if the game is one the west coast. Not even a box score. It’s a bias that is born out of the fact that the biggest media markets, and the ones that are nationalized, are located on the east coast.
That’s not bias, that’s circumstantial disadvantages.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
which in turn
leads to a bias. Which teams are you going to cover? The ones that are easier for you to cover. I see that as a bias. Maybe it’s not but that’s what i consider the ECB to be.
And one of them would be built on good research and one on bad. Or maybe they’re both built on good research and some followup is needed. Just because someone argues the other side of the story doesn’t necessarily mean they have a valid case…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Well when you say “evidence”, I take that as you referring to some sort of research?
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll give you evidence of an East Coast bias.
Living in Washington state, we should have gotten Fox coverage of the Padres at the Giants on the last Saturday of the regular season. After, a division title and the wild card were riding on the outcome. Instead, we got the Yankees and the Red Sox.
Case settled.
by mrs. owlcroft on Oct 12, 2010 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
But a division title and the wild card were riding on outcome of the Yankees – Red Sox game, too.
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 12, 2010 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions
LOLwrong.
The Yankees and Rays went down to the final day of the season with the AL East division title and the Wild Card yet to be determined. No, the Red Sox weren’t in the race, but the Yankees most certainly had something to play for. How does that matter less than the Giants and Padres?
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 13, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
How does that matter less than the Giants and Padres?
Because they were both going to the playoffs.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 15, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
VORB (Value over Replacement Buck) = NSEs (Number of Stockton Errahs) + 2 * ABRs (Annoying Braves Replays) / 0.25 * LTMCs (Lame Tim McCarverisms) + 2 * DBRs (Dancing Baseball Robots) + 1,000 * WScooter (Number of words spoken by Scooter, the talking baseball)
"Baseball is played by the dextrous, but it's only understood by the poindextrous." - Professor Frink
And then after sitting through the Fox broadcast you’ll be unhappy with it again.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
I LOVE YOU, SCOOTER
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
True
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
“I’m a changeup. I look like a fastball, but then I come in reeeeaaaal sloooooow”
"My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder." -Zinedine Zidane
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Oct 12, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
true
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
City wide
work from home day!
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
WTF? why are the games in SF so early? Most people have work.
by kingofthacove on Oct 12, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
who are still at work at 4PM
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Wants the East Coast Ppl to watch during prime time.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I knew living in a van down by the river would payoff someday.
"People are getting the message, the right people are getting it, but the people we want to further attract, or make sure we hold onto, are being affected by what we consider the lunatic fringe. That's my frustration, that they don't have a bigger view of the world." - Brian Sabean
I lol’d for real.
"My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder." -Zinedine Zidane
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Oct 12, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Tuesday’s game is at 1:19?! Fucking shit.
I'm still in the old thread.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Oct 12, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
this
a friend asked me to go to the game on Tues. and now I can’t see how I can! &#%$$!!!
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I was really thinking about going, but now it interferes with my classes. Fucking juiced ball bullshit.
I'm still in the old thread.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Oct 12, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
skip class
don’t let schooling get in the way of learning
Sucking up to Grant for a mod position since 2009
"Quiet you, I'm starting a meme." - Me
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
He’s a doctor of Stankology though, so just FYI.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
University of Stankonia
Sucking up to Grant for a mod position since 2009
"Quiet you, I'm starting a meme." - Me
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
I’m seriously considering it.
I'm still in the old thread.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Oct 12, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey, if you need to get rid of a ticket, I’d be willing to give you full face value for it.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey
don’t worry yourself over it, I’m sure I’ll think of something. I wouldn’t want you to worry.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Just trying to help out.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
SHADOOOOOOO
good luck Hitters.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
I’m digging the 1:19 game. I have a mid-term and speech that day, so compared to torture it will seem like I’m on a vacation.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
THIS.
Just scheduled a 2PM on Tues.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
REAL MEN OF GENIUS
Here’s to you, Mr. Fire-Alarm-Puller-Guy.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
/vader'd
I am screwed.
But then, so is baseball, with a nice afternoon start that no one will be able to see. At least no one with a job, or class, or sports team practice, or…
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Luckily I’m on the east coast and will be BARELY out of class to catch this game. But I really feel for all y’all back home, I would ditch out so fast.
that's the thing
people with jobs and sports practice (kids) and whatnot are not going to be at their TV by 4PM EDT.
Normally it would be do-able but I don’t know how.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
dibs
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Sorry, dude. Already promised them to someone else if we couldn’t go.
AAAAAUGGGGGHHH, I HATE YOU FOX
They could be Giants...but not really.
AAAAAUGGGGGHHH, I HATE YOU FOX
This is me most Saturdays during the season.
I CAN HAZ MARK REYNOLDS?
by jhiat00 on Oct 12, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes.
They could be Giants...but not really.
by esseffgeez on Oct 12, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's all good, was mainly joking.
I do not even think I could go anyway.
/kicks dirt
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
It's almost funny
I live in Ohio and teach. My Tuesdays go from 3:45-7:15. Soooo…perfect.
This is, of course, why I ponied up (well, not like I really expected the Giants to be in the NLCS, but you know) and got DVR this spring. And not like anyone I work with, I hope to god, will speak of the game. I’ll shut my office door and hide under the desk between classes. And let my six o’clock class go early. Yay!
I’ll be able to catch the first hour and a half or so
"My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder." -Zinedine Zidane
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Oct 12, 2010 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Time to skip chem lecture!
Somewhere in the minor leagues, Joe Paterson is pitching.
by imovermyhead on Oct 12, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I have no problem
taking a half day on Tuesday to go to the park. But I need to find a ticket for around $100, $150 for SRO is kinda insane.
In awe of his adopted dad: equipment manager Mike Murphy, who has been with the club since their move to San Francisco in 1958!
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
I went to Public House on Friday and it was a blast, FWIW.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Oct 12, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, my thought is to wander around and offer scalpers $50 for tickets and see if i find anything, then kick it at PH if it doesn’t happen
In awe of his adopted dad: equipment manager Mike Murphy, who has been with the club since their move to San Francisco in 1958!
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
Crap. So others have thought of this.
Proud parent of Bengie Molina: Buster who?
by The Enchanter on Oct 12, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Better to commit to PH before game time. People with tickets will eat/drink there then go into the park, and you pounce on their table. Once the game starts, no one’s leaving.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Oct 12, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
That Saturday 12:57 start time is such a bitch slap.
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Tuesday I understand, but what’s wrong with a 1pm Saturday game?
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Oct 12, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it’s awesome. Although it’s actually a 4 pm start (in Philly).
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
Actually, its a 11 pm start (in Djibouti).
"Baseball is played by the dextrous, but it's only understood by the poindextrous." - Professor Frink
YOU LEAVE HIS BOUTI OUT OF THIS
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d much rather have a night game after a travel game, when we likely won’t be getting to Philadelphia until LATE at night. Sure, we then have a day off, but I’d rather have as much time as possible after a cross country flight.
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate Fox so much that I can’t adequately put it into words.
"My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder." -Zinedine Zidane
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Oct 12, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm ok with all of the times except Tuesday.
Who can I talk to about getting this changed?
I CAN HAZ MARK REYNOLDS?
I was just checking stubhub and noticed Tues was a lot cheaper than Wed. I guess this is why.
Playoff baseball is fun. We should do this more often.
It wasn’t yesterday. But I guess now that the schedule is out, demand and supply are shifting accordingly…
They could be Giants...but not really.
Those are really the “first pitch” times? Cuz’ what I’m looking at says “broadcast time.” Won’t they have like 30 minutes of BS before first pitch?
Not that that matters all that much. We have SRO tickets for Game 5, coming from Sac… we’ll probably be late, but at least we won’t have to climb over anybody to get to our seats.
From the Giants website:
Tuesday: 1:00 PM FOX
NLCS Game 3 — first pitch 4:19 pm ET
Wednesday/Thursday
4:30 PM FOX
first pitch 7:57 pm ET
well fuck
I’m missing tuesdays game. Gonna be at the hospital for a surgery, no way I am gonna be able to catch a 1pm start.
by Artimus Clyde on Oct 12, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think it’s going to make a huge difference, but…
Philly gets four weekend games (and three, possibly four night games) while the Giants get three weekday games. Even Games 4 and 5 are starting before 5pm. Given the number of people who may not be able to make it due to work commitments, or late arrivals, I hope this doesn’t neutralize our advantage for the home games.
"I could hear the angry MCC cacophany in my head."--Oldjacket, 7/4/10
The Series after the NLCS has the NL team playing on weekdays as well.
They could be Giants...but not really.
TUESDAY? WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond, Brian Anderson.
Jeremy Affeldt induces strained obliques
by Giant among Angels on Oct 12, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Career numbers:
Sandoval: .356 wOBA, 121 RC+, -0.5 UZR/150 @3B
Fontenot: .327 wOBA 95 RC+ -11 UZR/150 @3B (SSS), +7.4 @ 2B
Sandoval is 24, Fontenot is 30. Panda’s had a bad year – but even in his bad year he’s no worse with the bat than Polanco or Fontenot.
If people really think there is a L/R thing then I guess you could platoon them. At this point, I think it’s up to the Bochy/bench staff to make a call.
Besides, how awesome would it be for Sandoval to have a monster series? He’s AWESOME! He’s the PANDA! He’s guarenteed to do little sitting on the bench.
Fontenot is a solid bench player and useful, but he’s a dime-a-dozen type.
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
also
I don’t think Uribe/Renteria plays into it much. I don’t think Renteria has played enough recently this year (and was atrocious) in 2009 for anyone to make call that is not a day-to-day coach.
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
Platoon makes none sense
Check their splits.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
yeah sorry
I took someone at face value ON THE INTEWEBZ… without fact checking.
I suppose it would be a Uribe→3B Rent→SS platoon, as he might be the only one that hits LHP. I would probably just stick with Pablo though.
He doesn’t strike me as a great choice coming off the bench either (he has to sit in the middle otherwise the other end just rockets down when he gets up)
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
I want the team to win, Team is #1
Giants winning is the #1 thing. I don’t think it’s about getting all emotional for 1 particular player. Right now, Pablo seems to be the worst hitter in the team. He should see very little time.
I’ll take Fontenot’s steady hand in any crucial situation than Pablo’s brain-dead, wild swings at pitches that bounce 10 feet in front of the home plate. Pablo seems to be a much worse defender, he doesn’t even know which base to throw to half the time.
I think even Bochy admitted – as of now, Fontenot is an upgrade over Pablo both offensively and defensively.
Look, Pablo had a great season last year – when opposing pitchers were throwing him strikes, since they didn’t know any better. We were all happy.
Now, especially in the playoffs, especially with the Phillies starting pitchers – Pablo is unlikely to get a single hittable pitch, he will just swing wildly at pitches and will strike out or GIDP.
These days, when Pablo comes to plate with a runner on – I’m hoping for a strikeout. GIDP is a much worse result, and I’m worried he will GIDP every time he comes to plate.
What we need now are steady hands on our ship – Buster is the best example. Pablo (2010 edition) seems the opposite of Buster in almost every way – no discipline, no thinking and adapting, etc.
Opposing pitchers were not throwing Pablo strikes last year either.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
And he didn’t even mention those calm blue eyes.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Shift A
I still believe in Pablo, give him the early starts. If he flounders again, then sit him again.
Oh, but don’t start him against Hamels.
Also, addendum to caption:
Ibanez did not notice the glove was missing until the bottom of the 4th inning, then he disappeared to the stadium kitchen to find a suitable replacement.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Pablos sucking is probably good for the Giants in the long term, since now he doesn’t have a big contract ont he horizon, and therefore might just be motivated to not be fat.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
Ugh, baseball with numbers. I’ll leave this thread to Missing Barry.
Ryan Rohlinger lives in my basement. I let him out to play baseball.
by shanghaijim on Oct 12, 2010 2:37 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
ah, random yahoo commenters...you give me many a chuckle
Posted by Georgie Best Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:45 am EDT Report Abuse
There’s all the talk about Lincecum vs Halladay.. don’t write off Zito just yet.. he’s been outstanding as an Oakland A pitcher. that was then but this is now? Giants need Barry in a best of 7!
NVM on the last one, I found a winner. Truly for the lulz
Posted by Sir Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:22 am EDT Report Abuse
Giants = A lot of mouth and NO TEETH!!! A lot a lip service about Lincecum who only won 16 games, and has no discipline!!! You think that Halladay doesn’t know about Lincecum?? This is exactly the reason Halladay chose the Phillies!!!
You think Halladay didn’t look at the Giants and their 56 year losing streak in post season?? Lincecum is EXACTLY whom Halladay wants to face!!! The Giants along with the Cubs are the BIGGEST UNDERACHIEVERS in the National League!!!
I respect the Cubs more because they have spent money to get better, they’ve just gotten bad players!!! The Giants never improve their clubs, they get one horse and ride him to death!!! They rode Barry Bonds to death, never got the man any complimentary players, and they will ride Lincecum to DEATH!!! They’ve already driven him to the pot fields!!!
Your little two-time Cy Young award winner, he won’t win this year, that’s for dam sure!!! It’s only a matter of time before Tiny Tim breaks down COMPLETELY!!!! Roy Halladay has more discipline in his toes than Lincecum has in his ENTIRE BODY!!!
GO PHILLIES!!!! Giants first post season since 2002, this is the Phillies forth trip to the post season, going deep in everyone of them since 2008!!! Three times, the Phillies have been the last club standing in the National League!!!! Yeah Giants, COME GET SOME!!!! You’re not dealing with the swanky little tourist towns of California, nor the swamps of Georgia, NO, you’re now dealing with the PHIGHTIN’ CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, and the PHIGHTIN’ PHILS!!! We play until the LAST OUT IS RECORDED, there is no slackers on this club!!!
GO PHILLIES!!!!!
LOL WOW
I respect the Cubs more because they have spent money to get better, they’ve just gotten bad players!!!
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Yeah, Halladay was worried Timmy will steal his pot.
by keyser_sozey on Oct 12, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
my favorite part of this comment
The Giants never improve their clubs, they get one horse and ride him to death!!! They rode Barry Bonds to death, never got the man any complimentary players, and they will ride Lincecum to DEATH!!! They’ve already driven him to the pot fields!!!
how dumb can one person be
The pot fields!
"My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder." -Zinedine Zidane
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Oct 12, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Not entirely convinced that's not my grandma.
My son is Madison Bumgarner, the Bipolar Stuffed Sheep of pitching prospects. My other son is a Porsche.
Zito has a terrible LCS track record
by TimLaser and MattyC on Oct 12, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
what record
I'm a Giants Fan. I have no fingernails. You knew this.
by iCANwatchMOLINAneverCLEANUPagain on Oct 12, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Whatever
That guy’s username is AWESOME
"My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder." -Zinedine Zidane
"If City play a game against United for 89 minutes, maybe they’ll have a chance." -King Eric Cantona
by Useful_Idiot on Oct 12, 2010 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions
if Zito can clean up 4 innings if one our starters has a 'moment'
then he could be very valuable, the good pitchers should be rested for the one run torture days
I'm a Giants Fan. I have no fingernails. You knew this.
by iCANwatchMOLINAneverCLEANUPagain on Oct 12, 2010 2:41 PM PDT reply actions
So if Zito can just be Woody for us he'll have some value?
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
LOL Bitter
I doubt that Garagiola, Jr. is buying into too many of those concerns
considering the fact that he’s spent most of his baseball life closely tied to a team that is putting in a humidor next year themselves.
If they want to tighten the chain of custody, fine. But the wailing and gnashing of teeth coming from SF is still no less pathetic, since not one person has yet demonstrated how the umpires not putting the balls in the ball bag actually translates into cheating on the field. Hell, even their own players can’t figure out what a "juiced" ball would even feel like, but they still bitch about it.
I am officially rooting for Halladay, Oswalt and Hamels to put up back to back to back no hitters, then the Phillies to close out the sweep in SF with a 20-0 rout. Every Phillies starter puts a ball into the Cove, just for good measure…
We’re trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
Bazinga!!
SD Cat 09 is still awesome
by Junction Rox on Oct 12, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Actually, we stopped bitching about it a while back.
Once the Giants effectively ended your season.
Oh, and Team Mike.
HAHAHAHAHA LOL
Biggest non-Rockies disappointment
I pick Travis Ishikawa and Rick Porcello. Just two that come to mind.
We can’t be the only team with young phenoms that aren’t getting it done.
Learn about Batting Metrics
Learn about Pitching Metrics
by Andrew Martin on Oct 12, 2010 2:26 PM PDT reply actions
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
In what way is he a disappointment? We knew that he wasn’t that good to begin with, and he wasn’t given a chance to prove anything other than he isn’t that good…..he’s pretty much met expectations….
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
¿Quién la cogida es Purple Row?
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Prince needs a tissue.
Oh, wait. The Rockies fans used them all.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
Jimmy Hoffa must still be alive
since no one has found his body!
/PR’d
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
playing in philly
i think pablo can do some damage. he might not be hitting for a good avg this season
but he can go deep. and i am pretty sure we can use a HR or 2 in the series against the phillies
Slightly OT
I wasn’t in the gameday thread but did most people think the ball Torres hit in the hole on which Gonzalez was charged with an error should have been ruled a hit? Seemed like a pretty generous error call to attempt to preserve the no hitter.
WWRWD?
I don’t recall the in-thread discussion about it. But looking at the replay the E6 call seems reasonable.
by non sequitur on Oct 12, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Gonzales got screwed with the errors
because Glaus had no range…Gonzales basically played 2/3 of the left side of the IF
Thats why E’s are the worst way to judge a fielder.
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, Miller & Kuip were pointing that out on almost every grounder to the left side.
by non sequitur on Oct 12, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I remember thinking that as soon as it got by Glaus he was gonna beat it out. I haven’t seen a replay though. You got a link?
WWRWD?
I didn’t see a clip devoted to that play alone. But it’s included in the game recap clip — it’s about 20 seconds in.
by non sequitur on Oct 12, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I have no doubt that it would not have been an error
had a no-hitter not been on the line.
I even heard someone saying that Gonzalez probably goes to the scorer after the game and tries to get it changed.
Team Pablo
but only if he doesn’t hack and GIDP. If he goes to his “bad Panda” style, then bench him for Game 2.
by Murray, Present on Oct 12, 2010 2:58 PM PDT reply actions
Game 1 – 7:57 pm (Sat.)
Game 2 – 8:19 pm (Sun.)
Game 3 – 4:19 pm (Tues.)
Game 4 – 7:57 pm (Wed.)
Game 5* – 7:57 pm (Thurs.)
Game 6* – 3:57 pm (Sat.) – Note that if the ALCS does not reach game 7, this shifts to 7:57 pm
Game 7* – 7:57 pm (Sun.)
by phillyeaglesfan on Oct 12, 2010 2:59 PM PDT reply actions
Thank God! I forgot to translate the times up thread to ET. That is much more doable for me.
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
games 4 and 5 will be low scoring
twilight time
If there's an ALCS Game 7
then NLCS Game 6 starts at 3:57 Philly time. DUELING NO-HITTERS!
"I could hear the angry MCC cacophany in my head."--Oldjacket, 7/4/10
I have nothing to contribute.
I’m just here for the animated GIFs and so far this thread has let me down.
Hitler was a Dodgers fan.
by The Nick on Oct 12, 2010 3:06 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
DID YOU NOT SEE RAUL IBANEZ?
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
RAULLLLL
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
This is incredible.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
by jctGamer on Oct 12, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Beltre hates getting his head touched
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Ha I remember this.
Man he went batshit when they touched his head.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
maybe
he should just take his ball and go home
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
This never fails to make me LOL.
I'm still in the old thread.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Oct 12, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I can’t tell if he’s actually upset or not.
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
it’s so funny that they keep doing it. if he wanted them to stop, he shouldn’t react. what an idiot.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL
I’ve always wondered why he freaked out so much when they touch his head
by hautecouture on Oct 12, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
lol
"He knocks a stake through the heart of the Cardinals! The Cardinals are dead! The Giants are going to the World Series!!!" -Jon Miller
t's Posey time!!
Screw you Flannery.
if his d was even semi good, i would say start pablo
but his weight has destroyed his range, and as a result, he rushes throws
if this were a pickup game…the fat boy goes last
pablo will start game one on the bench
Doesn't really seem to be the case
His fielding % was the same this year as last year. His UZR/150 was actually better (SSS caveats apply). I don’t really see his defense getting worse this year, I think we’re just less tolerant of his miscues because he’s not hitting .330.
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
why is the alcs on tbs?
no wonder why overall viewership for baseball is down
Because TBS paid them money for those rights?
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL
you and your conspiracy theories!
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Braves are out. Ted doesn’t care anymore.
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 12, 2010 3:58 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
FOX owns rights to WS and alternates bewteen ALCS and NLCS each season
TBS gets whatever LCS FOX isn’t broadcasting that year.
"A foghorn blowing out wild and cold." -Dire Straits
Team Pablo, but with a caveat
I would NOT hesitate to flip in Fontenot in the late innings if the Phillies throw out some crazy junkballing reliever who is just going to send Pablo fishing at balls a foot out of the zone. If it’s someone more dependent on a fastball, on the other hand, leave Pablo in (in this sense, I think he’s much better suited to face the Phillies— as good as Halladay, Oswalt, and Hamels are, at least none of them are sinkerballers).
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 12, 2010 3:33 PM PDT reply actions
Also, against Hamels, I don't think either of them should start...
Play Uribe at third, Rent at short because both Fontenot and Sandoval have sucked against lefties this year.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 12, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Meanwhile
In what’s been the highlight of October in years past…
AZ_GIANTS
Scorpions Lineup – Avery 8, Adams 5, Belt 3, Krauss 7, Norris 2, Gillaspie DH, Field 6, Burgess 9, Culberson 4, Verdugo SP
They could be Giants...but not really.
Charlie!
I'm still in the old thread.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Oct 12, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Whoooooo! I know we’re in the postseason, but I’m still pretty excited about the AFL.
They could be Giants...but not really.
I’m pretty psyched about both.
I'm still in the old thread.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Oct 12, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I forget, who was it that he drafted directly in front of?
Playoff baseball is fun. We should do this more often.
SUCK IT MIKE STANTON
I'm still waiting for John Johnstone to come off the DL.
by yankeessuck8991 on Oct 12, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
BELT?
BELT!
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 12, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
RYAN VERDUGO FTW!!!
Who cares about Belt when it’s VERDUGO TIME!
Ryan Verdugo, my adopted son, strikes out 13.2 per 9 innings in his career. He has a 1.63 ERA in San Jose this year. Call him up to be a Flying Squirrel. He is also a member of the "Giants who went to LSU" club with Mike Fontenot, a.k.a Grant.
think he was used exclusively as a reliever this year. maybe it’s like ST and he is scheduled to only pitch a couple innings
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, he was a reliever all year
He did make a start though IIRC. That’d be my guess too, just 3 or 4 innings and then he’s out of it.
Ryan Verdugo, my adopted son, strikes out 13.2 per 9 innings in his career. He has a 1.63 ERA in San Jose this year. Call him up to be a Flying Squirrel. He is also a member of the "Giants who went to LSU" club with Mike Fontenot, a.k.a Grant.
Double Plays
Except that Pablo will hit into more DPs than anyone else – they are rally killers!
I love the hate on ESPN comments
After watching many innings in this series, I came away with a simple conclusion….If either of these teams were in the AL, neither would have had a winning record. As a Yankee fan, I watch a ton of AL east games….even Toronto was better than these 2. The NLCS will be short and sweet…..for Philly.
What a horrible display of baseball in the NLDS. Seven games, 20 errors, 12 unearned runs. Ouch! The only team that should even be allowed in the playoffs from the NL is the Phillies.
We have zero chance guys. Just the way I like it.
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/5771/braves-nearly-swept-giants-in-division-series
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The baseball gods do not always punish the wicked but they will not just allow people to spit in their faces -- Joe Posnanski
I wish I would stop cheating. fuck. this is jctgamer's fault -- jponry
Never tell me the odds
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the issue is the jump from “there was some bad fielding” to “neither of these teams would have had a winning record in the AL”. It’s more than a small stretch.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
So it’s the commenters he has a problem with, not the original post by Neyer. Because I have no problem with someone saying, “with a few breaks in the other direction, the Braves could have swept the series.” That seems elementary.
He posted the link to the article, so it’s hard to tell if it’s the article or the comments therein that bother him.
Thing C
Pablo,
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 3:36 PM PDT reply actions
fixed
to be or not to be in this magic inside thing.
by baybombers on Oct 12, 2010 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
he should probably have that arm looked at
he seams to have shattered it above the wrist
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
making it that much more disturbing to look at
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Wouldn’t it be more disturbing if it looked painful and yet he still kept at it?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
He will be blind by the time the series starts
Boo
by LosGigantesTodoElTiempo on Oct 12, 2010 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Pablo
Start him against the righthander starters, every run is going to count and the Panda could run into one to make a difference.
Lefty
by Lefty-is-crafty on Oct 12, 2010 3:40 PM PDT reply actions
Need a stat nerd
So, my feeling is that the Giants starting 4 (or 3) pitch better against the Phillies than the reverse. Least, we’ve had some ownage on Oswalt, we beat up Halladay earlier this year, etc… so! I’m not much of a stat nerd. Would anyone be willing to check what the records (ERA, W-L, whatever else you want) are for the last 3 years between:
Giants vs. Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt, Blanton
Phillies vs. Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Bumgarner
Feels like it would be favorable. Maybe not?
the sample size
is too small to tell. Furthermore, the Giants offense 2010 is not at all the same as 2009 (let alone 2008) so the numbers there are not meaningful. Unless you think Phillies pitchers are afraid of Orange… (could use the Orioles as a control group?)
I think you can get this from each pitchers’ split vs. opposing teams on http://baseball-reference.com. If you really want.
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
I guess
SSS of course, but FWIW, for 2010:
Halladay: 0-1, (2 GS), 6.43 ERA, 1.429 WHIP
Hamels: 0-1 (2 GS), 7.36 ERA, 1.909 WHIP
Oswalt: 1-3 (4 GS), 3.33 ERA, 1.037 WHIP
Blanton: 1-0 (1 GS), 2.84 ERA, 1.263 WHIP
Lincecum: 0-0 (1 GS), 2.16 ERA, 0.480 WHIP
Cain: 0-1 (1 GS), 3.00 ERA, 1.333 WHIP
Sanchez: 2-0 (2 GS), 1.38 ERA, 0.923 WHIP
Bumgarner: N/A
Again, it’s SSS. But seriously, isn’t this crap at least as relevant as Oswalt’s no-hitter or any other BS that’s coming out of every sports site/channel?
I don’t see seeing the Phillies having any edge at all on starters after looking at these numbers.
how typical is it that of that group the Giants have struggled the most against BLANTON?
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 12, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
the fact
that’s it’s AS RELEVANT as a bunch of BS, does not, in fact, make it relevant.
When this .sig was awaiting the Final Sabean Apocalypse, I never once in a million years suspected it would be a "good" Apocalypse. Bengie... Don't let the door hit you IN YOUR GIANT ASS on the way out!
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game totally stalled and basically dead at this point
That's some ownage right there!
/kruk’d
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
How the 2008 and 2009 Giants did against those pitchers is pretty irrelevant to this series.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
A true stat nerd would know those are terrible things to look at!
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Going in to the NLDS...
The Reds took great pride in having hit Halladay hard in the summer, and were confident they could win game one.
Just sayin’.
by JamesFromPhilly on Oct 12, 2010 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
OT but worth noting
BBC News is streaming live coverage of the rescue of 33 Chilean miners. They’ve been trapped half a mile under the Earth’s surface for about seventy days now. The first of the group is expected to emerge sometime around or just before 11:00 p.m. EDT/8:00 p.m. PDT.
I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing Matt Cain.
aw
I believe he would be, if he could.
And, FINALLY!
Have you ever thrown a fist full of glitter in the air?
♥ 2010 San Francisco Giants ♥
♥ McCoven ♥
What a horrifying experience for those poor guys.
The other day I was getting frustrated because I was stuck on the Muni in the tunnel for like 10 minutes.
2 months? No thank you.
yeah
Situations like this really put things in perspective.
Have you ever thrown a fist full of glitter in the air?
♥ 2010 San Francisco Giants ♥
♥ McCoven ♥
Any one cares about the Texas/Rays game tonight?
Would like to see Rays win but think Texas with Lee is probably a tougher matchup
Is it 5:0x 1st pitch or 5:3x?
I like me some pitching, so yes, I’ll look in.
Playoff baseball is fun. We should do this more often.
0x
Sucking up to Grant for a mod position since 2009
"Quiet you, I'm starting a meme." - Me
Proud papa to: Bill Schlough, Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, aka the IT guy.
I'm actually rooting for Texas
if by some miracle the Giants were to make it to the WS, the team I’d be most scared to face would be the Rays.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 12, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
plus Bengie veteran presence awesome handler of pitchers, calls great game
And the worst part, those fukin’ douchenozzles over at the MCC get to lord this over us.
Rays have Big Mo
I think they win it easily
Texas
to end their long drought, to see some games that haven’t already been played 5,000 times this year, and to see Josh Hamilton.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I want whoever has the best chance to beat the Yankees to win
by hautecouture on Oct 12, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Team Grant
Three reasons.
Two were covered above:
1. Pablo will be at his suckiest against really good pitching
2. We need guys to work counts if we hope to get to Phillies’ pen (see: 1-0 win over Zambrano on Sept. 21)
Plus one more observation (updated from a post ~3 weeks ago):
3. Giants will be scratching for runs and need timely base hits if/when they can get a guy in scoring position. Based on 2010 season splits, Panda does NOT get it done:
— No one on base: .282/.331/.802
— Runners on first only: .298/.341/.738
— RISP: .208/.289/.559
Dude loses all control when there are ribeyes on the table.
It's orange inside
We need guys to work counts if we hope to get to Phillies’ pen
Normally I would agree with this, however Halladay throws in the zone. He does not walk many people. This is the kind of pitcher Pablo would be best against.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
I have a feeling the Phillies have scouted the Giants
And that the opposing pitchers know that Pablo chases pitches out of the zone, and would try to get him to fish for some junk balls.
"A foghorn blowing out wild and cold." -Dire Straits
So what you’re saying is that the Giants should play Pablo in order to get Halladay out of his normal game plan!
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
1. Pablo will be at his suckiest against really good pitching
EVERYONE is at their suckiest against really good pitching. That’s what makes really good pitching really good! I have yet to see evidence why Pablo would be hurt more against really good pitching than anyone else.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s all about the standard deviation:
Awesome Pablo > Awesome Grant
Sucky Pablo < Sucky Grant
Optimists up-thread are all dreaming about Awesome Pablo because he’s better than even the most Awesome Grant. But IMHO we’re stuck with the Sucky Pablo vs. Sucky Grant choice.
It's orange inside
You also have to take into account the mean of sucky v awesome Sandoval/Grant is wayyyyy in Pablo’s favor, and that’s the idea people upthread are getting at.
But IMHO we’re stuck with the Sucky Pablo vs. Sucky Grant choice.
Why?
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Because he will see nothing but top-grade pitching AND every AB will be high-stakes, high-pressure. I think Awesome Pablo only shows up when he’s loose, having fun, and getting occasional mistakes to hit, all of which seem unlikely in this particular series.
It's orange inside
Seems like Awesome Pablo showed up all the time last year.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
And that was last year. I cannot fathom why you think last year is so important in predicting what he might do Saturday. At best, it provides a small degree of hope that Awesome Pablo really does exist and could return at any moment. But performance in any given stretch of 2009 cannot possibly be as important in predicting this weekend as his performance the last few months. To claim otherwise is to claim that Panda’s ABs are statistically independent from each other, and that all variation over his career is strictly random, i.e. that he is equally likely to bat on October 16, 2010 the way he did on April 8, 2009 or October 8, 2010. I do not think many people would accept that claim. Just because we cannot easily discern through measured statistics exactly what changed, that does not mean nothing has changed and Pablo is fundamentally the exact same hitter he was 18 months ago.
It's orange inside
by TheAntiBork on Oct 14, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I cannot fathom why you think last year is so important in predicting what he might do Saturday.
Because, frankly, it is. A lot of research has been done on this very subject – the subject of evaluating a players talent level. What has the research found? The last ~3 years of performance is quite important in projecting how good a player is. Recent performance is weighted more heavily, but yes, last years performance still matters quite a bit. Two years ago performance matters, too.
To claim otherwise is to claim that Panda’s ABs are statistically independent from each other, and that all variation over his career is strictly random
I’m not seeing why it has to mean every AB is statistically independent. For instance, guys go through injuries during the season. The projections I was talking about are based on the population of baseball players, and if they’re hurt, well that makes some of their AB’s not Independent, at least. And yet with these same players we still find there’s so much variation in offensive performance that you need multiple years of data to get a good estimate of their talent level.
Just because we cannot easily discern through measured statistics exactly what changed, that does not mean nothing has changed and Pablo is fundamentally the exact same hitter he was 18 months ago.
When you said we’re stuck with sucky Pablo, I asked why. It was a serious question, I want to know why you think something has changed. I have no idea what’s going on with Pablo. I’ve accepted that. It could very well be a change. As of now, though, I have yet to see a single person come up with an actual explanation for it. I’m legitimately curious to hear theories, but only plausible theories. What can I tell you? Pablo is being pitched to almost exactly the same – the proportion of different pitches he’s faced this year is almost the exact same as last year, the amount of strikes, balls, first pitch strikes….all very close to the same as last year. The amount he’s swinging at pitches inside the zone and outside the zone, and the amount of contact he’s making on those swings? Again, almost the exact same as last year. He’s even hitting a very similar amount of GB’s and FB’s as last year. Last year he hit, this year he didn’t. Those facts rule out a whole lot of the theories going around.
So I’m left asking…..well, why do you think he’s different? I’m interested in any theory you (or anyone else) might have that also jive with those facts….but if nobody can come up with anything good, we’re best off assuming it’s random variation. Why? Because there really is a whole lot of variance in a seasons worth of offensive performance. And of course the projections use years worth of data because of it…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 14, 2010 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Theories, theories. OK: his eyesight is just a bit worse, so he sees pitches less clearly, making his swing timing and accuracy just a bit worse, resulting in a few more GBs that are weak, and a few more FBs that are popped up instead of driven for distance. If this is true, can you be sure you’d notice it in the stats? Can you guarantee it’s wrong?
Or how about this one: his swing mechanics are a little different, resulting in a little less power delivered to the bat head on average, resulting in balls not being hit quite as hard and resulting in outs slightly more often. Again, could you definitely see that in stats? Could you prove that it didn’t happen?
Point is, you could go on an on with this kind of speculation and never be sure that any of the hypotheses was completely false. I do not believe every possible explanation will show up in the statistics. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t something going on besides random variation.
The real point is that I believe the results of two ABs 20 minutes or two weeks apart are likely to be slightly more highly correlated, all other factors equal, than ABs 15 months apart or 15 years apart. Why? Because whatever is going on with the player that could impact proficiency is more likely to be the same. You don’t have to know what all the factors are in hitting to believe that some of those factors could be temporal. And as such, “what have you done for me lately” DOES matter in thinking about “what could you do for me tomorrow,” even if you don’t have a perfect theory of why.
It's orange inside
by TheAntiBork on Oct 14, 2010 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
And as such, "what have you done for me lately" DOES matter in thinking about "what could you do for me tomorrow," even if you don’t have a perfect theory of why.
Sigh. You know why it doesn’t matter? Because “what have you done for me lately” is a product of talent + error, that error term being random variation. The error term in small samples is a huge factor, and puts so much noise into the sample that you can’t get a read on the talent aspect of the equation. If you make decisions based on “what have you done for me lately”, you’re adding more noise to the equation than signal. It will make your decisions less correct. If you have a really good idea that something is wrong besides noise, that’s one thing, if you don’t…..well, it’s bad decisionmaking. Your results will be worse.
OK: his eyesight is just a bit worse, so he sees pitches less clearly, making his swing timing and accuracy just a bit worse, resulting in a few more GBs that are weak, and a few more FBs that are popped up instead of driven for distance. If this is true, can you be sure you’d notice it in the stats? Can you guarantee it’s wrong?
Or how about this one: his swing mechanics are a little different, resulting in a little less power delivered to the bat head on average, resulting in balls not being hit quite as hard and resulting in outs slightly more often. Again, could you definitely see that in stats? Could you prove that it didn’t happen?
Missing the point. I haven’t said anyt of those things didn’t happen. I wouldn’t say any of those things didn’t happen. Pablo is hitting the ball less hard, and that’s pretty much the entire difference in his performance. The question is “why?”, and whether it will continue in the future. Without good reason to believe in a theory, you have no answer to that question. Without an answer to that question, you’re just guessing at whether it’s random variation or not. If you don’t have a clue if it is, as I said, your decision making will be worse. The noise adds more error than the signal adds explanatory power.
by Missing Barry on Oct 18, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Anyone read this?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/2010/news/story?id=5676240
It’s as if the series was run by WWE and Ross had challenged Cox to a career series, where the loser would have to retire.
So perhaps it was fitting that two swings, a home run and an RBI single, from a role player like Ross helped end Cox’s career
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
lol burrell is slow
More comfortable with chicken
by billywitchdoctor.com on Oct 12, 2010 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions
#22 Tim Lincecum
http://flipflopflyball.tumblr.com/post/1301644212/22-tim-lincecum
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
Pablo is starting one way or another
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
P.S.: Why does Ichiro look so cooked/ possessed
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
He is upset because the visit from his father did not go as well as he had hoped.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
I still love this meme
Ryan Verdugo, my adopted son, strikes out 13.2 per 9 innings in his career. He has a 1.63 ERA in San Jose this year. Call him up to be a Flying Squirrel. He is also a member of the "Giants who went to LSU" club with Mike Fontenot, a.k.a Grant.
I saw another baseball related one that made me lol
it was like e.r.a of 4.00?
If he took weighted ap classes his e.r.a could be 5.00
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
haha
Ryan Verdugo, my adopted son, strikes out 13.2 per 9 innings in his career. He has a 1.63 ERA in San Jose this year. Call him up to be a Flying Squirrel. He is also a member of the "Giants who went to LSU" club with Mike Fontenot, a.k.a Grant.
found it
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
cooked
but coked works too, i suppose
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm gonna go with Panda except when Oswalt pitches
Fontenot Vs. Oswalt
BA .238 OBP .238 SLG. 286 OPS .524
5/21 1 double
Fontenot Vs. Halladay
BA .333 OBP .333 SLG .333 OPS .667
1/3 1 strikeout
Fontenot Vs. Hammels
0/2 thats it!
Panda Vs. Oswalt
BA .222 SLG .222 OBP .222 OPS .444
2/9 one RBI one S/O
Panda Vs. Halladay
BA .500 OBP .500 SLG .750 OPS .1.250
2/4 Double
Panda Vs. Hammels
BA. .333 OBP .400 SLG .778 OPS 1.178
3/9 3 hits 1 Double 1 Dinger
Kevin Mitchell has a black belt in keeping it real.
What to do with Pablo:
Go back in time and use him to pinch hit with one out and the bases loaded instead of Whiffy Mcstrikeout.
So long as that doesn’t change history in a negative way for the Giants.
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
/double play
It's Johnnie Walker inside.
by Lies and Perfidy on Oct 12, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
AT LEAST HE WOULD HAVE MADE SOME FUCKING CONTACT!
"I just struck out looking three times, but in any other ballpark those would have been home runs." - Aubrey Huff
by howtheyscored on Oct 12, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
so you want him to start?
to prove you wrong?
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
that didn't take long
Fredi Gonzalez to become manager of the Braves. This has probably been the plan for some time. He didn’t even want to interview for the Cubs job.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 5:09 PM PDT reply actions
so...Rays or Rangers?
I’ll go with the Rays since they’re at home and I picked them to go to the ALCS. Hard to pick against Lee, though.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 5:12 PM PDT reply actions
i like the rays as a team more
but i still love benjie. specially since he is off of our team
im ok either way really
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
im rooting for the Rays. They have a good shot to knock off NY, that, and I don’t want the Rangers getting a shot to win the WS before us.
I don’t like Bengie anymore after he “claimed credit” to making Posey a good catcher
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
semi-OT:
Someone was asking in one of the 400 post game threads about STH world series tix. Here’s the deal:
In an effort to offer all Season Ticketholders another shot at the extremely limited available World Series tickets, we have established a ticket lottery for the chance to purchase extra seats. As a Season Ticketholder, you will be automatically entered in to this Lottery. No registration is required.
If you are among the lucky winners chosen for the World Series purchase opportunity, you will be notified via email, as will those not chosen, no later than tomorrow (Wednesday) night. On Friday, October 15th at 10am, winners will have the opportunity to purchase tickets for the World Series (via online only) and will be allowed to purchase up to four tickets total. Please note that tickets available for purchase on Friday are extremely limited and include reserved seating and Standing Room Only and are on a first-come, first-served basis.
Playoff baseball is fun. We should do this more often.
how do you score from second with a groundout? Is GameCast lying or is Andrus really that fast?
Proud adopted parent of the ball dudes, who have grounded into 109 fewer double plays than the Giants.
he was running on the pitch
and Price took the feed from Pena and didn’t turn around in time.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
not sure, but Price really screwed that one up.
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Price wasn’t even paying attention to Andrus and loafed over to 1st, by then Andrus is 3/4 down the line to score. i think it was more of an “opportunity score” than anything else
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I voted for "Team Pablo" because "Team Grant" wasn't an option.
Better to be a Giants fan than an Athletic supporter!
Shift A
Start Pablo in Game 1. If he looks like he did in his last start, then you talk about benching him again.
After Z'ing through this thread and seeing the arguments, I'll give the slight edge to Fontenot
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
i dunno, the phils are a daunting task… id say give pablo the first 1 or 2 games to see if he can get hot, because that could be the difference maker in the series
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
But sucky Pablo = sucky Fontenot, and awesome Pablo > awesome Fontenot!
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
My thought-and I can't prove this
Is that Pablo’s struggles are largely mental, so I think he’ll be pressing more, both offensively and defensively
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
It could very well be true, it just seems like such a big uncertainty to me to be making a decision on…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I just feel like Pablo has the potential to make the bigger impact
be it positive or negative, and right now he’d be more likely to make a major negative impact
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
if the rangers win, do they get home field since the yankees were a WC, or do the Yanks get home field because they had a better record?
rangers get homefield im pretty sure
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
How about the all out of position line up
c-sandoval
1b-posey
2b-uribe
ss-sanchez
3b-sheirholtz
lf-torres
cf-rowand
rf-huff
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 5:35 PM PDT reply actions
Ideal lineup for me in game 1
Torres CF
Ross RF
Huff 1B
Posey C
Burrell LF
Uribe SS
Sandoval 3B
Fontenot 2B
Lincecum RHP
I like Grant over Freddy against Halladay as well.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond, Brian Anderson.
Jeremy Affeldt induces strained obliques
by Giant among Angels on Oct 12, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Freddy has good numbers against Oswalt and Hamels, though
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
:(
I like the game 3 and 4 lineup in the NLDS. Something about it working gives me warm feelings.
It's better to be lucky than good.
by Myemail21479 on Oct 12, 2010 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions
WTF
Molina just stole a base. Bengie Molina.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 5:55 PM PDT reply actions
He was obstructed but chose not to throw the ball so there was really nothing for the umpire to call.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions
mind blown
The only thing that could obstruct a catcher from throwing out Molina is Molina.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
SABEANNNNNNNNNNNNN!
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Buster stole a base, too.
but he hasn’t hit for the cycle, so I’m still not sold on the Bengie trade.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Buster post-season dingerz: 0
Bengie: 1 (and that’s just this year)
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
Also,
Bengie stole a base so they are tied in that also.
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 13, 2010 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions
oh god
HunterPence9 Hunter Pence
How about Rangers and Giants? Benjie Molina will get a ring either way it ends.
John Bowker would get a ring, too (if the Giants win)
Make sense?
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond, Brian Anderson.
Jeremy Affeldt induces strained obliques
by Giant among Angels on Oct 12, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Hell, if we win the Series, I’d give the Dawg a ring.
by Natto on Oct 12, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Everyone gets a ring.
Playoff shares are allocated by the players, though. That’s what the team voted to Nomah. I always pictured it as a large pile of pirate treasure dumped in the locker room as the team parses it out share by share.
“Yarr, that be me goblet, it be. Yarr.”
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 12, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I knew they voted on “playoff shares” but didn’t know about rings.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
the playoff teams get bonus money for being in the post-season. the farther you go the more you get. each team is then alloted so many “shares” of the post-season money pot. the farther you go, the more shares you get. then the teams divide up the shares (full or fractional) amongst he team or former members who were traded or released.
They may even voted a share for non-players. a few years ago the Rockies voted a share for Mike Coolbaugh’s widow. he was the minor league coach killed by a foul ball to the head.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah, I see. But does everyone who gets voted for a share get an equal amount of money?
by chakdephatte on Oct 12, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions
that’s my understanding.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I think not so.
I am fairly sure—not positive, but fairly sure—that post-season money can be subdivided at least to the half-share level.
Sabean delenda est!
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
dolla dolla bill yall
Look at my website. Look at it. || Screw Johnsonville Sausages and Safeway. I have my reasons. || I pity the fool that falls in love with [THE SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS]
I am now officially rooting against Texas. GO RAYS!
"Guys, here's 20 wins right here" - Aubrey Huff on his red thong
I don't dislike Bengie enough to do that.
I am rooting for the Rays though, but I would take either team if they beat the Yankees.
Look at my website. Look at it. || Screw Johnsonville Sausages and Safeway. I have my reasons. || I pity the fool that falls in love with [THE SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS]
While Molina pissed me off as a player the last two years, I have no problem with him as a person.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
I’m not a big fan of Bengie. Too whiney/sensitive. Suck it up, meat.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:08 AM PDT up reply actions
HamiLOLton
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:07 PM PDT reply actions
Shift A
I voted Fontastic. Not because I don’t love Panda. I do. But I’m worried that Bochy will let the tantalizing potential of August Panda outweigh his better sense when he’s getting Not August Panda. Fontenot’s combination of steadiness and newness to the team makes him easier to play appropriately.
I hope.
Actually, I think that logic might have just experienced an extraordinary rendition and disappearance to a CIA Black Ops site in Eastern Europe.
I just want the right answer to be the one that starts, ok?
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 12, 2010 6:14 PM PDT reply actions
Here are the official times for the 2010 NLCS Games on FOX (All Times PDT)
Sat, Oct. 16th: NLCS Game 1 SF @PHI, 4:57
Sun, Oct. 17th: NLCS Game 2 SF@PHI, 5:19
Tues, Oct. 19th, NLCS Game 3 PHI@SF, 1:19
Wed, Oct 20th, NLCS Game 4 PHI@SF, 4:57
Thur, Oct 21st, NLCS Game 5 PHI@SF, 4:57 (if necessary)
Sat, Oct 23rd, NLCS Game 6 SF@PHI, 12:57 (if necessary)
Sun, Oct 24th, NLCS Game 7 SF@PHI, 4:57 (if necessary)
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:34 PM PDT reply actions
Oh daaaaaaaang
A home day game?
Look at my website. Look at it. || Screw Johnsonville Sausages and Safeway. I have my reasons. || I pity the fool that falls in love with [THE SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS]
on a Tuesday
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
they gotta show the Yankees in prime time
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Psh, I don't mind.
I’m just stoked that there will actually be a day playoff game at home.
Look at my website. Look at it. || Screw Johnsonville Sausages and Safeway. I have my reasons. || I pity the fool that falls in love with [THE SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS]
Granted 5PM is an AWFUL time to start a ball game (Falling right in that 2-5PM no mans land when the shadows start encroaching on the field).
Look at my website. Look at it. || Screw Johnsonville Sausages and Safeway. I have my reasons. || I pity the fool that falls in love with [THE SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS]
Yeah.
The first four innings of Games 4 and 5 are going to have about one hit combined, and it probably should’ve been ruled an errah.
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 12, 2010 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions
So it isn’t to avoid preempting Glee?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions
well, I hadn't thought of that
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I can rest easier knowing that.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions
chasm I know
But both series have two day games scheduled.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I don’t think it is a chasm at all. I thought they really were making sure the Yankees got prime time games?
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Still upsetting.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond, Brian Anderson.
Jeremy Affeldt induces strained obliques
by Giant among Angels on Oct 12, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions
our yard is a bit more lively during the day
which could hurt our flyball pitchers.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions
This.
I’m hoping our little heat wave will end by then
by hautecouture on Oct 12, 2010 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Cliff Lee is a monster
If we go up against him in a world series, I say we pitch Zito against him.
We’re gonna lose anyway, might as well not burn Tim.
Cliff Lee throws strikes, so the Giants might have a chance.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
he’d still throw strikes against the Giants, but they’d be of the swinging variety.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Should we pitch Zito against Halladay too?
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm telling you,
Dirty vs Halladay and Timmy vs. Oswalt. History wins.
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 13, 2010 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions
when are they going to have to decide the NLCS roster?
I wonder if they are going to put Zito in.
Proud adopted parent of the ball dudes, who have grounded into 109 fewer double plays than the Giants.
I haven't soured on Pablo as many others have
I still like him.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
Nah. Plenty of people have turned on Pablo.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
If you think otherwise, go peruse the gamethread from Game 2 of the last series.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Turned on him as in ‘I never want to see that fat fuck again’.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m paraphrasing.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 12, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
not by much
And if only Renteria would play, all would be well. For the SWARM!!!
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I like to look at him as 2010 batting version of 2009 Cole Hamels.
Overplayed memes:
EASTCOAST BIAS
2002 WS CANCELED
Blue Jays want all our player that we don't utilize correctly
by say hey nation on Oct 12, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude
Carlos Beltran
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
I mean
I like him better than Fontenot. He’s my choice.
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
I still like him
I just liked him better when he hit for power and average, and played better than expected defense. I think he’ll come back next year, but this year is pretty much a lost season for him. That said, I still voted for Pablo over Fontenot.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
MLBTR
A story by Yoon Chul of the Korea Times quotes Shin-Soo Choo as saying he’d like to play for a team that wins more than Indians.
SANCHEZ FOR CHEW
There's a disappointed Asian dad jpg in here somewhere
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd appreciate the Big League version
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
Not if Belt gets moved like everybody is thinking
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions
That would be nice
I don’t know anything about his range, but my gut feeling is that he’d probably be a better RF than Huff, if only because he’s hopefully quicker.
I'm guessing if Belt comes up
Huff in RF, Belt at 1B
Belt supposedly has the best 1B glove in the system and Huff Daddy is the best athlete on the team, come on
OT: Sometimes I truly regret being found on Facebook by some of my students
Because I have to read stuff like this: “soooooh mhaDDDh AT Eshani!She mmmHaddde meeeh loook for someoneh, she wassszh TAllkin TOOH & ddidH wannnh askkk Herr Lasssth NammmeH Shhew Geth On MMyhh NeeeverrS but I love Myyh CuuuZH!”
And then have to see said student like his own comment…
The baseball Satanist
I promise that my adopted Giant, one Zach Wheeler, will not shoot anybody.
"I told the family lovingly slide"
Buck Martinez is my all time least favorite color guy
and when you think about it, that is sayin something.
And the worst part, those fukin’ douchenozzles over at the MCC get to lord this over us.
Racist
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Oct 12, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
does cliff lee ever walk anybody?
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 7:23 PM PDT reply actions
Maybe these guys?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM0sTNtWDiI
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
you win :)
Have you ever thrown a fist full of glitter in the air?
♥ 2010 San Francisco Giants ♥
♥ McCoven ♥
If MCC could chip together some money, I’d buy a time machine and use it to see who does better. Then, I’d come back and vote in this thread with the correct answer.
Jeaaaggaahh
better solution
go back in time and get the old Pablo
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions
if you had a time machine you should use it to travel back in time and encourage tim lincecum’s dad to have more children. And then make sure the giants draft those children.
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Or just get the Giants to draft, say, Albert Pujols and Cliff Lee and trade for Hanley Ramirez, etc…
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions
but then the Giants don't get Posey, Lincecum, Cain, ... etc
not worth it
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Why not? We would know to draft them, or trade for them, too!
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions
STOP PLAYING GOD
or cthulhu
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions
people forget that sabean had a deal on the table that would have landed us hanley ramirez for jason shmidt.
never forget
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course had anyone realized Hanley would be as good as he was back then….well, the Red Sox wouldn’t have traded him to begin with…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions
could be true
but I’m pretty sure this is just a rumor.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Timmy has a brother, you know.
Also a pitcher. Until he hurt himself playing football, poor guy.
by mrs. owlcroft on Oct 12, 2010 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions
3x his size
Ryan Rohlinger lives in my basement. I let him out to play baseball.
by shanghaijim on Oct 12, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Did anyone see the new "Likable Giants" article on ESPN?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=kreidler/101012
Could be worse ways for the national media to describe us.
Just read that
Apparently we’re pretty lovable.
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
I just wish it didn’t have to be an oppositional thing with Barry Bonds. Barry Bonds has next to nothing to do with this specific Giants team.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I’d consider Burrell…. BamBam’s had his chance, but seems like nothing is different from last year, except Pablo’s broken.
They scored 40 more runs. Team OBP up 10 points. A lot of surprising seasons hitting-wise from players. The team didn’t magically become the Phillies, but the offense did seem to improve this year. Part of that is certainly the collection of players – it’s much stronger now than it was in 2009 – but still.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Well
The best thing to look at to evaluate Bam-Bam would probably be to compare people who were here BOTH years, right?
Pablo? Worse.
Uribe? Worse.
Molina? Worse, before he left
Is there anyone who was here last year who’s having a better year?
Texas’s hitting coach must be even worse then.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not saying it's the hitting coaches fault, really
But it’s equally silly to say Bam Bam has worked magic in lieu of evidence.
That doesn’t seem fair – Uribe, especially, had what seemed to be a fluke year last season. It shouldn’t come as any surprise that he regressed. In some senses, the same goes for Molina.
As for Pablo – IDK. Again, some regression should have been expected, although the degree to which he regressed was pretty huge.
It doesn’t seem fair to blame Meulens for the regression of two veterans like Uribe & Molina though.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I agree
Not fair to blame him for that. Also not fair to credit him for the improved offense, though.
I didn’t do that.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
It's almost as if
hitting coaches don’t really matter too much one way or another.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions
this is the problem as I see it. I see Burrell work with Huff in mid season, I hear about Rent telling Cody to keep his foot down, and the only thing I hear about BamBam is chaining Pablo’s legs together??? I"m sure I miss a lot, buy the lack of mid-season correction has me wondering.
I'm going to go out on a limb
and say that if Ross hadn’t hit that HR, you never would have heard the story about Renteria telling him to put his foot down. Players give each other tips like that all the time but you only hear about it after the fact and when the result ends up being good.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I suspect they don’t matter a great deal, but I also suspect if they did matter, it’d be pretty hard to find the signal through the noise in the statistics…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
For what it’s worth, Uribe had the best walk rate of his career this year. The decline in his overall numbers may have had more to do with his .256 BABIP than anything else.
by RoyaleWithCheese on Oct 13, 2010 1:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Slightly OT:
Why do people always seem to imply that BABIP variation = luck (good or bad)? Can’t lower BABIP come from worse swings? If you’re off balance or hitting off the end of the bat, you’ll get out way more often than if you’re hitting it hard.
It's orange inside
Well, if you don’t want to call it luck, I think that’s understandable. It’s one of those things that tends to be unsustainable. No doubt it can come from worse swings, hitting the ball worse, etc. Things in the players control. But going forward, the player isn’t going to maintain that. I like to think of it kinda like basketball – say a guy goes on a streak of making 40 FT’s in a row. It’s like calling that luck – it was in the guys control, of course, but it’s not something that’s really repeatable or sustainable and going forward you expect him to go back to shooting at his normal %.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes and no.
Some variation from actual cause is presumably possible. But extensive history shows clearly that each player has a “natural” BABIP that is not far from the overall MLB-average BABIP (and much closer, in general, than batting averages are to MLB-average batting averages). Pitchers almost all have long-term BABIPs of around .300, which is the average for batters. To find pitcher at .270 or .330 (again, over some reasonable time span) is quite remarkable. Batters are a little more scattered around the norm than pitchers, and the extremes are a bit greater—Ichiro Suzuki has, if I am recalling aright, about a .350 career BABIP.
But for any given player, his BABIP will tend to be much more constant year to year than almost any other stat, and it seems safe to say that unless something really, really, really drastic has happened to him, deviations from his average are from sheer luck.
Sabean delenda est!
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
The 2010 team (B-R lists 487) had 95 more walks than the ’09 squad ( 392). That is a 24% increase. Quibble if you want if the 2011 squad will hold the same amount or rate but at least give credit where credit is due. I bet you if I went over to Fangraphs the amount of PA’s given to players with over 50% OSwing is way down as well.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
the walks could be due to obtaining players who already had patience to begin with. Huff, Burrell, Posey, etc…
some say patience can’t be taught, so you look at other factors. a hitting coach should be watching to see if players arent making adjustments, and if so, fixing them.
so far i’ve seen bambam do nothing in terms of fixing hitting mechanics. Pablo was the best possible example, he started the year out great, something went amiss, and bambam never got him fixed, he only continued to worsen.
id like to see bonds come back as a hitting coach, but realistically, the giants have probably moved on from association with bonds for good.
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions
sporting some serious chest pubes
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I will believe what i will believe
And that be a nice pectoral fro, until proven otherwise
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I kinda dig it. Open collar, chest hair… it just says, “I don’t give a fuck what you think.”
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 12, 2010 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
to me it says,
“i’m barry gibb’s long-lost cousin”
"to me, the all star game is retarded."--aubrey huff
Those two minutes in the paint may have earned you 40 three-second violations,
but it earns you a rec.
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 12, 2010 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Ugh. Hate those articles. Giants fans have moved on. We’re living in the present. Why can’t the journalists?
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Bonds hated the media and they went out of their way to rip the guy to get even
and then they act all shocked that their constant media barrage of anti-Bonds sentiment results in Bonds being publicly disliked.
anyway, it’s not like people hold the media in high regard. they can go fuck themselves.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Except you, Baron and TheLetter2 and probably some others here! We heart y’all!
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 12, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
there are exceptions
I’m not media. but media as a group is pretty much held is such disregard that they’re a joke, especially when they write/say stuff about what how all Giants fans think the same thing and they don’t know wtf they’re talking about.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
People forget The media Hate for Bonds was not just one generational.
And In that context I am pretty sure i would have behaved a lot worse in a simmilar situation.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
The Giants are veteran leadership like Huff and rookie inspiration like Buster Posey.
I read that as rookie impersonator.
Jeaaaggaahh
by Soulbrother16 on Oct 12, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Jose Guillen, known as a volatile player in previous career stops, hasn’t complained about being phased out of the playoff lineup.
Well, he might be complaining, he’s just too far away from the team for it to matter right now.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"You all are just blinded to reality by your hatred of Armando just as the Bonds haters are." -grm
if he complains, and no one wants to be around him, so no one hears him conplain, did he really complain?
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Does anyone know if the rosters expand for the Championship Series and the World Series? I thought I saw someone mention this somewhere but I can’t find anything on it.
"I don't know how the six-pack got in my hands." -P.T.F. Bat
no, it's a 25-man roster the whole way
but the teams can adjust in between each round
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Also
is this gonna be a 5 game series?
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep.
The Giants will take it 4-1.
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 12, 2010 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions
What you did there,
I Saw It
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
7-game series.
PHI-PHI-SF-SF-SF-PHI-PHI
"I don't know how the six-pack got in my hands." -P.T.F. Bat
Fontenot is safe, Panda is the wild card
Fontenot is a tough AB always. He takes pitches, fouls multiple balls off, grinds, uses pitches. Great to get a pitch count up.
Panda is never a tough AB. He gets a first pitch double or he strikes out on 3 balls and makes a U-turn.
I hate to compare anything I like to the Yankee’s, but anyone remember how they built their late 90’s dynasty? Before they starting buying everything, A-Rod, Giambi, Moose, Clemens, etc. Guys like Paul O’Neil, Tino Martinez, Bernie Williams, Scott Broscious… Grinders. Theses guys took pitches, fought hard, and got into the opposing teams pen, and took advantage.
Giants never said die in Atlanta. 2 come from behind victories late. Late in a city and town were the Giants always seem to get squeezed. Late vs a team with a pretty good pen (even minus Wagner) and 40,000 + fans chanting and yelling and wild. The Giants were warriors.
For this reason, I like Fontenot. He is that guy in that team. Panda is an amazing talent, but you never know which Panda you get? Last years Panda is a gimmie yes. This year’s Panda is that guy 1/2 the time maybe, and a 1 pitch hack, 3 pitch strikeout or gimmie DP the other…. Ugh.
But, it is not my decision. I think Panda lost his spot, so did Romo in game 3. Until someone else fails, or they get a chance in a different spot and really shine, they will not have as big a role.
It's better to be lucky than good.
.
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
You don't out-point the champ.
You knock him out.
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 12, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
We definitely could use more Charlie Kelly
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
Yeah, I remember the Yankees back then. They had good players then, too. Here are Fontenot and Sandoval’s career lines:
Fontenot: .270/.337/.411 3.96 P/PA.
Sandoval: .305/.356/.484 3.40 P/PA.
So if they come up against the starter 3 times, Fontenot will see 1 or 2 more pitches than Sandoval. I don’t see how that’s going to make the slightest positive difference for us. I’ll take the talent, please. And heck, even in this down, broken year, Pablo is hitting a very Fontenot-like .268/.323/.409. At his worst, he’s Fontenot, at his best, he’s something much closer to the best in the league. Yeah, give me the talent.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions
But he looks so bad out there!
And he is fat.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Carreer stats say something
But I would rather see those same splits second half of this year, which I think will be closer to how it plays out.
In a series with epic pitching coming, I will take the extra pitches, and a much less chance of a DP, which can keep pitch counts low.
It's better to be lucky than good.
by Myemail21479 on Oct 12, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
But I would rather see those same splits second half of this year, which I think will be closer to how it plays out.
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. I cannot emphasize enough how big a problem sample size is in what you’re suggesting. Career stats, or at least the last ~3 years of stats, will tell you wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more than their second half splits for this year.
(Also, the only measure of double plays I know of has Fontenot and Sandoval as equal in that regard)
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I completely agree
But for fun
Pablo since the all star break: .276/.325/.447
Fontenot since the ASB: .267/.315/.314
Vote for Pablo!
Damn you guys are quick with the stats
I will be happy if Panda plays too. I just hate DP’s. They destroy momentum.
It's better to be lucky than good.
by Myemail21479 on Oct 12, 2010 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh you didn’t get the memo from shanghaijim? This is my thread, and in my thread, we love the stats!
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions
No one likes DPs
But you don’t build a lineup trying to avoid them.
After all, the easiest way to avoid DPs is not to have anyone on base to begin with.
BORK BALL!!!
‘07-’09
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
I’m an old eyeball guy. I’ll take the 2 more pitches from Grant any day of the week. I feel like something is missing here – MANY can predict the pitches that will take out Pablo (and Scott) in 4 pitches – this is not the case with Grant….
I think Mini Grant is useful. I also think Sandoval is not the INF starter who should lose some of his starts doing certain match ups. the idea of running Sandoval for say the first 2 PA’s and yanking if the team has a lead is not such a bad idea either. In summarry sure Big Head you made your point to Panda last game now you your tools according to their abitly and the situation not your according to just your gritty game love.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
bernie williams was the last yankee i didnt hate. I may still respect jeter and mariano rivera but i hate them none the less. I dont respect the mercenary yankees at all
but man bernie williams was a hell of a ball player
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 8:06 PM PDT reply actions
reply fail
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Randy Winn played for the Yankees for like a week
too classy to hate
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Cliff Lee is rather good.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 8:08 PM PDT reply actions
Pretty incredible that that’s only the 4th best performance of the first round.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
4th best?
LIncecum game score 96
Halladay game score 94
- was who? Hamels?
Cliff Lee
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
whoa, formatting error
Lincecum
Halladay
who was the third best? Hamels?
Lee
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Hamels
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
89 of those 120 pitches for strikes (74%). He has KONTROLL.
by non sequitur on Oct 12, 2010 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
and KOMAND
Pablo Sandoval: The Triforce of Courage
Buster Posey: The Triforce of Wisdom
Brandon Belt: The Triforce of Power
The middle infielders were so flabbergasted that he was actually attempting a steal that nobody covered second
The middle infielders? But couldn’t the outfielders have run in and covered second in time?
by non sequitur on Oct 12, 2010 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Add this to the list of unbelievable things that happened this year
by hautecouture on Oct 12, 2010 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Year of the cycle!
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
Adopted parent of good old Wendell, he tries so hard. You'll get a hit someday son!
by theghostofjasonellison on Oct 12, 2010 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey, those are my favorite kind of years!
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 12, 2010 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
OT
1st miner in Chile has just been lifted to safety
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
...his mistress and wife are there to greet him
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
SANCHO...
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
not sure
I read that there was one miner down there who had that situation up top.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 12, 2010 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Lol. Not really that surprising!
I hope he’s rescued soon and there can be 2x happiness! :)
by keyser_sozey on Oct 12, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
The apocalypse is approaching.
Bengie Molina vs. the SF Giants pitching staff in the World Series.
be afraid
Ryan Rohlinger lives in my basement. I let him out to play baseball.
he would spill everything about every pitcher we have, and we’d have to resort to Barry Zito for 7 games because not even Molina knows whats going through his head
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Cliff Lee is a BAMF, no doubt.
He’s like a ronin: Have arm, will travel.
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 12, 2010 8:20 PM PDT reply actions
And his catcher looks like a rice ball
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No wonder he wasn't playing good this year.
HE’S FOOD. NO FOOD ON THE FIELD!
Pablo Sandoval: The Triforce of Courage
Buster Posey: The Triforce of Wisdom
Brandon Belt: The Triforce of Power
Is this for true
That in a Giants-Rangers World Series, Bengie gets a ring either way???
OR HAS CJ WILSON LIED TO ME
Ryan Rohlinger lives in my basement. I let him out to play baseball.
by shanghaijim on Oct 12, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
all of a sudden he starts using the hockey-style mask, after using the old-school masks the whole time he was with SF?
sounds like Posey was teaching him, not the other way around. “this is how you don’t eat poor little freddy sanchez…”
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
gonna be fun
Hey gang..Phillies fan here stopping by to congratulate the Giants advancing to the NLCS. This is gonna be a goood series and I can’t wait. It’s gonna be a pitchers duel and I am so looking forward to it. I only wish game one was tomorrow night. I’m going f-ing nuts waiting. Good luck!
Well, you seem nice.....
LOL the sig. Should be a great series. Got relatives all over Penn, so in years past, I’ve been known to root for the Not Yankees
Be Prepared for torture
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
WHOA
Have you ever thrown a fist full of glitter in the air?
♥ 2010 San Francisco Giants ♥
♥ McCoven ♥
My mind is blown
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 12, 2010 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I love that its an east-west show down for the series.
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 8:22 PM PDT reply actions
LOL CENTRALS
Ryan Rohlinger lives in my basement. I let him out to play baseball.
by shanghaijim on Oct 12, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Mmm
I’m happy.
Pablo Sandoval: The Triforce of Courage
Buster Posey: The Triforce of Wisdom
Brandon Belt: The Triforce of Power
Hey
My Grandpa counts as a Texan.
Pablo Sandoval: The Triforce of Courage
Buster Posey: The Triforce of Wisdom
Brandon Belt: The Triforce of Power
Damn, my generalizations always seem to be disproved….. it’s so hard to reduce the world to black and white
I'm humbled.
Pablo Sandoval: The Triforce of Courage
Buster Posey: The Triforce of Wisdom
Brandon Belt: The Triforce of Power
hooray for Wash
Well-deserved.
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Bengie molina took the rangers over the top
bad trade for the giants.
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
Yeah, definitely Bengie. Not that Josh Hamilton guy, not that Cliff Lee guy…..Bengie Molina for sure!
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Bengie’s game calling is the reason Cliff Lee is so good. And his veteran leadership is what makes Josh Hamilton stay sober.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Don’t forget his speed on the basepaths. Puts pressure on the defense, clearly. Forces them to make mistakes.
by Missing Barry on Oct 12, 2010 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude hits triples.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
he and Jonathon Sanchez
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions
sign me up for your newsletter
Bengie Fan Club ftw! I hope I get the longtime member discount.
Seriously, I think this is a cool example of a win-win trade. The Giants don’t make the playoffs with Molina, or win the DS, and I suppose the Rangers don’t make it without him (since he seems to have been an offensive upgrade over what they had, amazingly enough).
"Bochy said there was nothing wrong with Buster Posey. He thought Eli Whiteside had a better chance of scoring on a gapper...Bochy said he might have had Whiteside try to steal second"
"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw
"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)
by natteringnabob on Oct 12, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Zito over Mota, Team Sandoval
I’m being serious and not chasming. If a starter collapses early, the bullpen will get demolished.
Sandoval has more upside, and we need that to win the series. I think that Grantenot is more consistent, but the Giants won’t beat a better team with consistency.
Pablo can be a game changer if he gets hot. Gotta take some risks and play him.
This is beyond torture. This is beyond baseball.
team Pablo
In some circumstances, the best plan is to go with the low upside consistent guy. Sometimes the weenie choice is the right.
But this is not one of those times. Our team is, by every reasonable analysis, the weaker one. If we play Pablo Sandoval and he continues to suck, we will probably lose. But if we play Mike Fontenot and he gives us mistake free baseball, we will still probably lose.
BUT if we play Sandoval and he hits like that monster he can hit like, well hell, how do you like buying world series tickets?
Mike Fontenot, I love you, you collection of dishtowels. But you represent the weenie choice at a time when we need the ballsy choice.
Mark DeRosa, still existing.
by oldjacket on Oct 12, 2010 8:51 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
So same risk, high reward?
I chose Pablo too. Although, I am extremely biased.
Pablo Sandoval: The Triforce of Courage
Buster Posey: The Triforce of Wisdom
Brandon Belt: The Triforce of Power
Pablo is not the ballsy choice. He’s the wishful choice. Frankly, “unsmart” choice.
If the team feels they cannot beat Phillies without Pablo miraculously becoming BLB, they shouldn’t bother to show up, just forfeit.
by keyser_sozey on Oct 12, 2010 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think anybody’s suggesting or hoping that Pablo will/does become BLB, only that he morphs into some version of the Pablo Sandoval from last year.
I know, I know, I was just exaggerating for effect.
But seriously though. If you want to apply that logic (wishing he’ll catch lightning in a bottle) to Pablo – then why not apply the same logic to the following players too?
- Zito over MadBum
- Rowand over Torres
- Renteria at SS
All of these guys have performed extremely well in playoffs (not just regular season like Pablo, but playoffs) not that long ago – may be they too can catch lightning in a bottle?
Or does this logic only apply to Pablo?
by keyser_sozey on Oct 12, 2010 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
This is almost exclusively because of age. Barry, Scott and Rent are at the point in their careers where we “know” what kind of player they are and, most importantly, their ceiling. Pablo Sandoval demonstrated he could be a middle of the order threat last year, but slid waaaay back this year. Because of his age and relative experience, we can still “hope” and use those facts to determine if he’s capable of doing more than what he’s done this season.
True. But such hope should be applied to next season.
Not during NLCS – we’re in NLCS for only the 5th time in the history of SF Giants.
Who knows, it may take us another 10 years to get this far. This is not the time for a wing and a prayer. You go with the best performing players you got, at the moment.
by keyser_sozey on Oct 12, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
You go with the best performing players you got, at the moment.
NO. NO NO NO NO NO. This is not a difficult concept. You go with the player you think is going to perform better. This is a decision about the future, not about the recent past. You go with the player more likely to perform better, and that player is the “better player”.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
MB: If you’re still reading this thread, just a small observation. Starting your posts with “Noooooooooooooooooo” or “NO NO NO NO NO NO NO” and then repeating what you’ve said 25 times already will not change minds, but it will annoy people.
It's orange inside
Yeah, I’m really just expressing my frustration. It seems like such a basic concept to me people should just accept. Of course we don’t care about what a guy just did, we’re making decisions based on what we think a guy will do! But then people just go and forget that and make silly arguments. It makes me sad. :(
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Who should be annoyed.
Meaning that they have said something that provokes such a reaction, and perhaps they will reflect on that something in a way that they might not have with a milder, Jules Feiffer “Let us define your terms” reply start. There are times when emphasis is justified. (And I, for one, would say that whenever some variant of the “hot hand” theory surfaces is such a time.)
Sabean delenda est!
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Mad Bum has pitched better than Zito this year. Torres has played better than Rowand this year. Renteria has been hurt and arguably not as good as Uribe this year.
Fontenot has not been better than Sandoval this year.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
This logic only applies when it is actually logic.
This isn’t a lightning in bottle argument. Pablo Sandoval is a better, just less consistent player than Mike Fontenot. There should be zero argument about that.
Mark DeRosa, still existing.
by oldjacket on Oct 12, 2010 9:48 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
There’s a big difference here. You can look at Pablo’s career stats, which are relevant to right now because they all come from so recently, and see he’s a much better hitter than Fontenot. You cannot say the same about the other guys, if you look at their last ~3 seasons worth of performance as an indicator of their talent level.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Just finished my take home midterm
time to go out and find some late nite chinese
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Oct 12, 2010 8:55 PM PDT reply actions
Holy Fuck!!
My mind ain't nuthin' but a total blank, I think I'll just stay here and draaank - Merle Haggard
by NuschlerFace on Oct 12, 2010 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Pablo, the epitome
He just might be the most maddening player in Giants history, only because we’ve all seen how spectacular he can be when he’s right.
That’s exactly it. But this is Giants baseball, torture! We can’t hide from it by benching the guy.
He just might be the most maddening player in Giants history
Not even close. Chrsi Brown, Johnie LeMaster & Pedro would like a word or two.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at: 61%
Spoiler: Grumpy older Giants fan is Grumpy.
IIRC Chris Brown was hit in the face by a pitch as was never the same after.
No one here gets out alive.
I love that man.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 13, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
And here all this time I thought the face-hitting was being done by Chris Brown, not to him.
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 13, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't forget the crop o' crappy starting pitchers...
…all of whom were foisted upon us like they would be the second coming of Marichal.
To wit:
Trevor Wilson
William Van Landingham
Osvaldo Fernandez
Trevor Wilson
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Osvaldo Fernandez
To be fair, that is an awesome name for a pitcher.
I have Croix de Candlesticks older than you.
goldengatebeerbars.com
by troymccluresf on Oct 13, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Mike Ivie as a catcher.
What a player he could have been—possibly, one is tempted to say probably, Hall of Fame.
Sabean delenda est!
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Team Pablo!
Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Oct 12, 2010 9:10 PM PDT reply actions
Fix pablo by telling him and uribe they aren’t allowed to sit next to each other in class.
No one here gets out alive.
and no more dominos
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I love MLB TV
They have a baseball field in the studio and do skits on plays that happened in the game. Its so cool!!!
Doing the play the Vladdy scored from second on the missed double play.
It's better to be lucky than good.
LOL
Guy in business clothes just ran with a helmet on and head first slid into home in the re-enactment!
It's better to be lucky than good.
by Myemail21479 on Oct 12, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
TOUCHDOWN!
wait, what?
"throwing out runners? I don’t know, just chuck it as hard as you can".-Buster Posey
For anyone reading this thread later
It’s helpful to know that guy in business clothes was Eric Byrnes.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL
I did not know that. Not paying 100% I guess. He is awesome. He was fun to watch playing the game.
It's better to be lucky than good.
by Myemail21479 on Oct 12, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I am so glad he did not end up on the Giants
He was such and idiot in the field.
/useless somersault
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
That explains why the play was actually a flyball to right field.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Pablo Sandoval looks like he got upset when Bochy told him he was overweight and gained 20 more pounds. So, now he’s 60 pound overweight instead of 40.
by parisspleen1313 on Oct 12, 2010 9:20 PM PDT reply actions
He's listed at 5'11 245
I’m sure that’s about as accurate as bengies listing of “5’11 225”.
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
IT MUST BE TRUE
I READ IT ON THE INTERNET!
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
PABLO SANDOVAL LINKED TO CARTOON CAT
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Ohhhhhhh I get it now
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
The Hangover provides quotes for years to come.
by giant4life83 on Oct 12, 2010 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
PABLOL STRANDEMALL
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 13, 2010 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions
According to the poll results (at the time of this post):
Pablo should play 54% of the time
Grant should play 45% of the time
And 1% of the time, we should leave 3rd base open and take our chances.
Make it happen Bochy.
by Bochean on Oct 12, 2010 9:24 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
1%
thats a motherfuckin’ wildcard!
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
sweet
defensive replacements in the 5th 6th and 8th innings
I'm a Giants Fan. I have no fingernails. You knew this.
by iCANwatchMOLINAneverCLEANUPagain on Oct 12, 2010 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
OT
For senior boat cruise, should I go as Hansel (my friend would be Zoolander), or a Graham Cracker?
Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Oct 12, 2010 9:47 PM PDT reply actions
this
I'm still in the old thread.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Oct 12, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
/puts vote in this box
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 13, 2010 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions
You should go as the creature from the black lagoon
and just go around scaring the shit out of people
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Its hard to do that while dancing, on a boat.
Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Oct 12, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions
…or easier.
They are trapped on a boat.
They may mistake your attacks as a new dance.
They will be drunk and thus easier targets.
Seniors. As in, in high school. As in, school sponsored event. As in, no alcohol. Well sure, there will be some pre-gamers, but they breathalyze before most of these things now.
Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Oct 12, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Funny story
at my safe and sober cruise, the son of one of the teachers showed up drunk, puked on the front step of the bus, then was kicked off the trip.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Our class didn’t have the money for a senior cruise. Somehow, every class before and after us has been able to though.
GET IT DONE NATTO BRASS!
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 13, 2010 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions
breathalyze?
With a real, n-hundred-dollar law enforcement device, or with a forty-dollar wal-mart special?
And a boat from which there is no escape after?
This does not sound like a fun party.
And once again, asking McCoven for advice yields no results.
Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Oct 12, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
YOU SHOULD GO NAKED
WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Bengie molina stole a base today
Great base runner according to ron darling.
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
non contested too
hes really become a great baserunner the past 3 months for sure. a cycle and then this? I mean he was singling off the wall in Houston on opening day… fresh legs!
I'm a Giants Fan. I have no fingernails. You knew this.
by iCANwatchMOLINAneverCLEANUPagain on Oct 12, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Someone just called in tony brunos show and pulled a mat latos
He was bragging that the phillies are completely home grown and the giants are just like the yankees and they buy their players.
LOL PHILLY
/5 year 125 million dollar extension for one of the most overrated players in baseball
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
hellz yeahz
drafted Halladay, Werth, Oswalt, Lidge, Polanco, Ibanez
I'm a Giants Fan. I have no fingernails. You knew this.
by iCANwatchMOLINAneverCLEANUPagain on Oct 12, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
even our bench has our own rejects in Ishikawa and Schierholtz
I'm a Giants Fan. I have no fingernails. You knew this.
by iCANwatchMOLINAneverCLEANUPagain on Oct 12, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
/trades for Roy Halladay
/trades for Roy Halladay
/signs Placido Polanco
/signs Raul Ibanez
/signs Brad Lidge
/signs Jayson Werth
/signs Shane Victorino
by Every6thDay on Oct 12, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
One of these Roy Halladays shoud be Roy Oswalt
by Every6thDay on Oct 12, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Deep meaning in this one.
Ryan Rohlinger lives in my basement. I let him out to play baseball.
by shanghaijim on Oct 12, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
/trades for Joe Blanton
/signs J.C. Romero
/signs Jose Contreras
/signs Danys Baez
/signs Chad Durbin
by Every6thDay on Oct 12, 2010 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
/trades for Cliff Lee
/trades away Cliff Lee
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
/aaron rowand
/pedro feliz
I'm a Giants Fan. I have no fingernails. You knew this.
by iCANwatchMOLINAneverCLEANUPagain on Oct 12, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
/claims Brian Bocock
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
he really proved himself in his previous stin—— wait.
I'm a Giants Fan. I have no fingernails. You knew this.
by iCANwatchMOLINAneverCLEANUPagain on Oct 12, 2010 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
My Brain hurts
Brian Wilson: "Don't Quote Me"
Buster Posey: "I Ain't Havin' It"
Pat Burrell: "The Patural"
by slackersphere17 on Oct 12, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
are you kidding me?
outside of the Yankees-Red Sox-Mets axis of evil, i say it goes Phillies-Dodgers-Cubs-Angels-White Sox in terms of teams that try the hardest to buy championships.
by kezargiants on Oct 12, 2010 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Best thing about the mets and the cubs
Spending well over 140+ million a year and failing as hard as it gets.
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
by sfgiants420 on Oct 12, 2010 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
As much as I hate aaron rowand
At least we didn’t sign soriano to that zeetacular contract.
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
by sfgiants420 on Oct 12, 2010 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know if you noticed, but Soriano was actually a decent player this past season again. It wouldn’t have been a choice between Soriano/Rowand, it would have been a choice between Zito/Soriano (and might have prevented us from signing Rowand!)…..I think it probably works out worse for he Cubs than Zito works out for us, but it won’t be a huge difference either way.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Cliff Lee is good
If Cliff Lee doesn’t issue a walk, he will have HALF of the 10+K/0W games in postseason history
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Nolan Ryan was watching
PITCHERS DON’T NEED NO DAM REST
I DONT CARE HOW MANY PITCHES HE HAS
FINISH IT OR YOU’RE SOFT!
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
by sfgiants420 on Oct 12, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya
by ToddCommish on Oct 12, 2010 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
probly pitching game 3 on 5 days rest
I'm a Giants Fan. I have no fingernails. You knew this.
by iCANwatchMOLINAneverCLEANUPagain on Oct 12, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe they were concerned since Feliz blew that game?
Buster Posey>
"I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
by Gobroks on Oct 12, 2010 10:23 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
pfft
He’s no JOE BLANTON
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Team Pablo - Are you enjoying your stay is fairytale land?
The correct answer is to accept that Panda is not going to right his mental and emotional ship this year and to go with a platoon of Fontenot against righties and Renteria against lefties.
by BornRaisedAGiant on Oct 12, 2010 10:19 PM PDT reply actions
But, Team Pablo prefers “fairytale land”. It seems more fun!
by keyser_sozey on Oct 12, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey, team ‘Not Pablo’ also seems to enjoy the “Fairy-Land” where Mike Fontenot was apparently a much better hitter in 2010 than Pablo Sandoval
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
by jponry on Oct 12, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
People do not have the time to read the actual evidence that was presented up thread.
We seem to need a new thread topic.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
How much do you have for us Grant?
I mean the game is Saturday. I think you might be spoiling us.
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 13, 2010 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
This is my last post until the GameThread. Savor it.
by Grant Brisbee on Oct 13, 2010 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Like a Frenchman and his cheese
I will.
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 13, 2010 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it’s all so clear now. This whole time I’ve been trying to figure out what’s wrong with Sandoval only to conclude it’s basically impossible to know, and all I really had to do was ask you because you obviously have it figured out! Man what was I thinking. Glad you can tell random variation from a “mental and emotional ship”…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:22 AM PDT up reply actions
WAFFLES OR PANCAKES?
Toppings of choice?
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
JUST GO NAKED
Karma, bitch.
Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Oct 12, 2010 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
No toppings at all huh?
too dry for me.
Proud Adoptive Parent of Jesus Guzman, RHP. 2010 Line: 0 H, 2 BB, 0.00 ERA. CALL HIM UP!
Bochy: What’s this fancy stat here?
IT Guy: That’s how often they get on base. I do not know why you keep asking me, I am here to fix your server.
Why don't you ask Pablo?
He knows about food because he’s fat.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 12, 2010 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Waffles. Strawberries.
I'm still in the old thread.
"IT'S POSEY, YOU IDIOT." - Jon Miller
Clayton Tanner, the Flying Squirrel!
by walkoff baltimore chop on Oct 12, 2010 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
also LOL
"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."
by sfgiants420 on Oct 12, 2010 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Look folks, 2009 Pablo is GONE! GONE! GONE! GONE!
He’s gone and he’s not coming back! 2009 Pablo is NOT going to arrive on a magic carpet in time for the NLCS. He’s NOT; that’s all!
The pitchers have caught up to him. The chalupas have caught up to him. 2009 Pablo is not coming back in calendar year 2010 anyway.
Look, suppose you had a choice between working in a factory all your life and spending the most productive years pulling down a six-seven figure income. What a choice, right?
OK, now suppose you had to lose twenty pounds and maintain yourself in generally decent physical conditioning in order to be able to exercise the 2nd option. Not a problem, right?
I mean, dieting isn’t easy, but if you can’t become healthier with THAT as an incentive, you must be one pretty pathetic weak-willed butthead, right?
Well, Pablo couldn’t. The Giants put him into training last winter, and he came back tubbier than when he started. The effort involved for him to actually catch a ground ball and throw it — it must be “torturous”!
No discipline at the table — small wonder that there’s no discipline in the batter’s box.
Why are you still wearing those idiotic Panda masks, people? Pablo hasn’t earned your affection. He sure as hell isn’t working for it.
The only thing that’s going to bring back the 2009 Sandoval MAYBE is a REAL training regimen over the winter and some serious work in the batting cage to correct some bad habits. But a season’s worth of corrections isn’t happpening between now and Saturday. A winter’s worth of conditioning isn’t happening between now and Saturday.
And none of this is going to happen at all until the correlation between work and reward is nailed into that thick Panda skull. That’s not happening over the next four days either.
Fontenot at 3B against righty starters and Uribe at 3B against Hamels is the best of the bad choices.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Oct 12, 2010 11:22 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Why would you promote this as “well said”? There’s no good analysis in there whatsoever.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Because . . .
. . . we don’ gotta show you no stinkin’ analyses! (No stinkin’ badgers, either.)
Sabean delenda est!
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
In all honesty no Panda didn’t take care of himself in the offseason. He didn’t follow through but I have to believe that this offseason he’ll make a better effort. I think he saw that he has to evolve as a hitter and that he has seen how his conditioning effects things. I’m pretty sure this season was a wake up call for him.
"He knocks a stake through the heart of the Cardinals! The Cardinals are dead! The Giants are going to the World Series!!!" -Jon Miller
t's Posey time!!
Screw you Flannery.
Yet with all of that, he was a better hitter than Mike Fontenot this year.
by Grant Brisbee on Oct 12, 2010 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Only because wRC+ and OPS+ both fail to account for the negative impact of DPs.
I think if this is properly accounted for Fontenot has been the better hitter in 2010. Panda’s current mental and emotional state and approach is just not going to succeed against great pitching and that is what he is going to face. Against great pitching the superior mental and emotional state and approach of Fontenot is more likely to succeed then the superior physical talent of the Panda.
by BornRaisedAGiant on Oct 13, 2010 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions
The double plays are a drag, but he’s also been unlucky.
by Grant Brisbee on Oct 13, 2010 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually, the one measure of the effect of double plays that we do have have Pablo and Fontenot as exactly equal in that regard. But hey, facts, schmacts, right?
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions
RISP - Fontenot .913 OPS
Sandoval .559 OPS.
Fittingly enough, that’s the area code in Fresno.
by Grizzlie Antagonist on Oct 13, 2010 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure I’ll never care about single-season RISP numbers, even if it fits anecdotal evidence that a player is having family problems and has a cloudy, unfocused mind..
by Grant Brisbee on Oct 13, 2010 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
You’re doing it wrong. Seriously. That’s just not the proper way to use statistics, and it tells us nothing meaningful whatsoever. Grant is correct to never care about it.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I disagree. Small sample size is a relative concept. A very large observed difference can still be statistically significant even with a relatively small sample. The above numbers are based on 146 PAs for Panda, 61 PAs for Fontenot, and you gotta admit, the observed difference is HUGE.
It's orange inside
Not a math guy, but couldn’t a huge variance in a small sample be seen as evidence that the sample is too small?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 13, 2010 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, the observed difference really isn’t huge at all, given the sample size. Hitting really does have a huge variance like that. I very, very much doubt it’s statistically significant. I wish I could remember where to find that article on how much to regress certain stats based on # of PA’s. Also, keep in mind when it comes to splits, there are so many ways to do splits. If you’re using a 5% significant level, well, there are lots of times when you’re going to get a statistically significant difference when there is no difference at all. And given that people pick out splits to support their point, we’re getting a huge selective sampling issue here…..so it’s really not even surprising to come across a split that’s statistically significant yet you know is random variation.
Ultimately, guys are who they are. L/R split is meaningful (but should be looked at over a career rather than a given season), and in rare cases H/R can be meaningful if a guy fits a ballpark well for some reason, but in pretty much every other split, you’re going to be right most times assuming a guy is who he is (certain splits you see the whole population do better in, like say a 2-0 count, so you need to take that into account).
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Has your sample been swimming in the lake recently?
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 13, 2010 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions
The pitchers have caught up to him. The chalupas have caught up to him. 2009 Pablo is not coming back in calendar year 2010 anyway.
Funny how pitchers are pitching him the same way this year as they were last year.
The only thing that’s going to bring back the 2009 Sandoval MAYBE is a REAL training regimen over the winter and some serious work in the batting cage to correct some bad habits.
Also funny how that whole “being out of shape” thing didn’t stop him from hitting the last couple of years, nor did his bad habits prevent him from hitting.
He’s gone and he’s not coming back! 2009 Pablo is NOT going to arrive on a magic carpet in time for the NLCS. He’s NOT; that’s all!
Hey, it couldn’t possibly be random variation, as this enlightening statement clearly proves.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Your arrogance is amazing.
Posting the most just does not make you right.
by BornRaisedAGiant on Oct 13, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
No, but the fact that everything he said is true does indeed make him right.
Posting the douchiest comments doesn’t make you right either.
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
by DrDC on Oct 13, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, who’s the arrogant douchebag?
I can’t believe people are still talking about this. This “debate” was over 24 hours ago.
Juan "Doesn't Cheat The Game" Perez, please keep hitting.
I very much know I’m not right on this issue. I have no idea what’s the matter with Pablo. None. Seriously. That said, people keep bringing up points that simply aren’t true. I correct them. Oh well.
And posting the most might not make me right, but I have quite a bit of baseball and stats knowledge that does mean I understand what I’m talking about. I read a lot about baseball, and work in statistics, what can I say. :)
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
It's like this:
I know it’s been said many a time, but it remains true:
You cannot use reason to get someone out of a position they did not use reason to get into.
One understands data and how to analyze it, or one dismisses it. Wir sind gewohnt das die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen; as Sherlock Holmes remarked to Dr. Watson, “Goethe is always pithy.”
Sabean delenda est!
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Forecast for Tuesday:
70 degrees and Sunny.
Perfect day to win GAME THREE OF THE NLCS!
(and I will be sitting in the bleachers for this game! OMG!!)
Have you ever thrown a fist full of glitter in the air?
♥ 2010 San Francisco Giants ♥
♥ McCoven ♥
yay you!
but sadly i will miss it thanks to school :(
by chakdephatte on Oct 12, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
As a representative of TC,
I would like nothing more than to see the Phillies get absolutely crushed in the NLCS.
MAKE IT HAPPEN.
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
We will try, trust us. Crushing them is a tall order but I feel we can Giant them with a few one run thrillers.
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 12, 2010 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s a good thing we’re gaining more fans for the NLCS so that we can fill up our upp.. wait what?
Every Third Game
Local LA guys
Think LA Dodger fans should cheer for Giants. Most fans called and complained.
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 13, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
most of the doyer fans i know
are cheering for the giants. they hate philly more than SF. I don’t get it.
by kezargiants on Oct 13, 2010 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Same here
I cheered for Philly when they played the Dodgers, so hard.
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 13, 2010 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah same.
I could never root for the dodgers under any circumstances. I think it’s because they got pwned by Philly two NLCS’s in a row in similar fashion, but still that could never trump the rivalry for me. I think dodger fans aren’t as in to the rivalry as they are into just hating the flavor of the day team to hate.
by kezargiants on Oct 13, 2010 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions
A lot of Dodger fans are not die hards in the ones I met lately. I could tell when one told me " Oh I kinda like the Giants, there one of my other favorites.".
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 13, 2010 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions
OK
I’m really intersting in seeing the following arguments:
Why Sanchez should start over Fontenot against RHP, even though they’re identical players, and Fontenot has the platoon advantage. Also, why it’s so obvious that no one except for Evan and Roto has even mentioned it.
And since it’s mentiond in the post – why was it the obvious call to take Ray and Mota over Zito. The main argument I’ve seen is that Zito walks too many compared to those two, which is just factually incorrect. Is it the taking too long to warm up thing? I still don’t really buy that one.
Because Bochy won’t bench Sanchez, so it’s not really an option worth discussing.
And I think it’s obvious to take Runzler over all of them, and why would it be Ray and Mota? Only one right?
"Catch that, Eckstein!" - Duane Kuiper
Warming up fast is important.
If we find ourselves in a pinch and need a lefty fast he is out. I also think that there is not much faith in Zeets right now.
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 13, 2010 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Was there some artical or a quote or something about how Zito takes too long to warm up? It sounds like there was and I missed it.
I think it is more of a starter rule
That they take longer because they are trained to be long distance pitchers instead of 1-3 inning guys.
There is nothing wrong with me cheering for players that are former players for my teams. Unless they become a Viking.
by Giant_in_la_area on Oct 13, 2010 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions
He walks more guys in the first inning he pitches than in later innings. That’s the one bit of knowledge I can provide.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions
That one game. You know, he didn’t do well coming out of the pen that time.
Utter frustration and futility.
Adopted 'nephew' to the ever avuncular and always awesome Jon Miller
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 13, 2010 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe . . .
. . . that it is urban mythology. It seems to be based on Zito preferring to go through a long routine (not “warming up”) to mentally prepare himself for games. But hey, who needs facts when fancy is more fun?
On the other hand, it is not clear if Zito’s style of pitching is suited for crisis intervention. For starting a clean inning, possibly, but for immediate outs, perhaps less obviously.
Sabean delenda est!
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
I’m actually in favor of having Zito on the roster over Mota, but not for “crisis intervention.” For disaster mitigation. It wouldn’t be that surprising if one of these games got out of hand (especially either the Sanchez or MadBum starts), and I would have a long relief guy just in case. Casilla-Ramirez-Romo-Lopez-Affeldt-Wilson is enough late-inning relievers for seven games in nine days. (I might actually take Mota over Ramirez, but I know the team’s not going to.)
Hey, hey, hey. I agree with both. Don’t lump me in with the rest of these clowns.
by Grant Brisbee on Oct 13, 2010 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Interesting questions, but this thread is too long and slow for me to look into them…..
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions
"thrice burned, forthwise shy"...
that has to be one of the best lines ever written on this site. hilarious!
Have to go with Fontsy
Fact is: We ARE in a deep post season run, and Panda has NOT contributed thusfar. Fontsy has a better approach at the plate (he doesn’t flail at the first three pitches), and a couple extra quality ab’s could prove to be a factor in a series with such good pitching.
Quick Point.
I think it would smart to take Romo out of the line-up and put in Ray, Runzler, or Zito because if Bochy is in his right mind (He probably isn’t, so that’s why I’m double worried), he won’t play Romo, so he’s a waste of a spot as Mota and Affeldt were this series. Thoughts?
Go Sharks!
Boo.
Romo is awesome both on the field and as a bullpen threat that the opposing manager has to account for, and Bochy knows that. Two bad pitches do not a pitcher define. Shoot, the home run he allowed was thisclose to a) not clearing the wall and b) being foul.
Giants Baseball: The Thing Is, It Keeps Happening.
Proud parent of William Nuschler M.F. Clark.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Oct 13, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Mike
BA, walk%, OBP and all other stats be damned. This series is going to be about which team can get into the other’s bullpen more effectively, and Panda will not see nearly as many pitches as Mike will. If, in three times through the lineup, Mike sees 12 pitches, Panda may only see 4 to 6. Since Uribe will be there no matter what, that leaves Panda out in my opinion.
The only thing that bothers me about this is that Mike didn’t seem to realize that there were two outs there, and nearly threw the ball away trying to start a DP that didn’t need starting. But Panda hasn’t been making the throw from third very well lately either.
3 times through the lineup, on average Mike will see 1-2 more pitches than Pablo. 3.40 P/PA compared to 3.96 for Fontenot for their careers.
by Missing Barry on Oct 13, 2010 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Got to include Pablo
Too much upside if he is OK.
Also, to boost your point, in the last two weeks of the season, he hit .343/.395/.486/.880, starting 10 games, playing in 13. I think he was just too amped up over the playoffs. it was just two games, and the periods during 2010 season where he didn’t hit are pretty clearly defined: when he first heard of the divorce and dealing with it, when he had to deal with it again flying down to Venezuela to sign it, and when his mother nearly died in San Bruno firestorm. Plus now, while dealing with his first playoffs.
Thus, I think he should be in there, he gets at least the first game, just to see where he is at, then play it by ear how much he plays.
Adoptive parental unit of Ehire Adrianza.
Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.
"Woo hoo!" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
"The objective is that World Series ring" - The Kid
"I think my role here has changed a little bit. I'm counted on a little more." - Posey after hitting 12-24 with 4 homers after Molina trade
"A lot of swearing, a lot of screaming – and a lot of alcohol." - The Kid, about the playoffs
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 13, 2010 5:07 PM PDT reply actions
I just discovered something. Nobody sponsors Fontenot’s BB-Ref page. You want to run out a guy who’s not even good enough to get a page sponsorship out there?! Not me! :)
Wow, now that’s science.
It's orange inside
by TheAntiBork on Oct 14, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Cubs fan here.
I can’t believe there’s even a debate. Fontenot = no.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
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