Baseball's Worst GM: A Steel Cage Death Match
by jcb9 on Jan 26, 2010 1:11 PM PST
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PrintThe candidates and some brief highlights on their epic fails:
1) Ned Colletti, Dodgers: signed Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre to huge contracts despite having better free options in Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp; signed Jason Schmidt to a big contract just as his arm fell off.
2) Jim Hendry, Cubs: signed Alfonso Soriano to maybe the worst contract in the game, team hasn't had postseason success despite massive payroll.
3) Andy MacPhail, Orioles: gave Garrett Atkins $4.5 million, overdrafted Matt Hobgood with a top 5 pick last year; actually, I can't think of anything flagrantly horrible off the top of my head, but the Orioles have continued to suck since he was brought in in 2007. With guys like Wieters, that could change, though.
4) Omar Minaya, Mets: throws money around like it's going out of style, recently traded for possibly the worst player in baseball, traded away Jason Bay, Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, and Chris Young while GM of Les Expos
5) Dayton Moore, Royals: when hired, he talked about making the Royals a success with young talent, so of course it makes sense he's gone on to give significant FA contracts to such mega-talents as Jason Kendall, Scott Podsednik,and Jose Guillen; traded an actual prospect for Yuniesky Betancourt, who still has two years left on his contract; has basically never done anything in his life that wasn't stupid in some way. Somehow recently got a 5-year contract extension.
6) Mike Rizzo, Nationals: his team is terrible. It's not his fault (he just took over last year), but I'm including him because some people will doubtless want to vote for the GM of baseball's most pathetic franchise.
7) Brian Sabean, Giants: yeah, we know this one.
8) Ed Wade, Astros: traded half his farm system for an aging Miguel Tejada, terrible at drafting, gave a $15 million contract to Brandon Lyon for some reason. Somehow manages to neglect both the farm system and the Major League team despite a top-ten payroll.
These are just brief descriptions of their failings. Feel free to add more arguments for or against any of them in the comments.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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I'm going with Dayton Moore, myself
But it’s a tough call between him and Ed Wade.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
This is what I am thinking as well.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
I don’t even think it’s tough. The stuff Dayton does and says is so ridiculous…man. He’s in a league of his own.
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
Trust the Process
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Moore has only sucked in one city,
Wade has sucked all over this country
by theimmortalbenard on Jan 26, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
But Moore sucked really, really hard in that one city, AND got an extension. He willingly traded for Yuniesky Bentancourt, a -2.1 WAR player last year! He called him a gold glover when he traded for him! Replacement players are supposed to be free, and he traded for someone 2 wins below replacement level and made him the starting SS! He signed Mike Jacobs!
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
Keith Law’s analysis of the Mike Jacobs signing was hilarious. I can’t find it now, but it was a mix of scathing disbelief and humorous finger pointing
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 26, 2010 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
The fact he got an extension as nothing to do with how bad he is. This is his first time calling the shots. He got the cheap owner to spend some money (granted in mostly terrible places). He has had excellent drafts and he got Grienke signed to a long term extension. I mean this is a little like trying to pick the best way to die here. Wade came into this offseason with no money to spend, yet gave Lyon and Moehler like $20 million in total salary.
by theimmortalbenard on Jan 28, 2010 8:34 AM PST up reply actions
The extension part wasn’t really meant as an argument he sucks, just me throwing it out there because I can’t understand how he possibly got an extension.
by Missing Barry on Jan 28, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
I went Wade
The distinction for me is it seems like the Royals drafts have been relatively good the last few years while the Astros continue to blow it.
although, “Andy MacPhail” always makes me laugh.
Probably takes a lot of the fun out of O’s fans coming up with derogatory names.
by microwave donut on Jan 26, 2010 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
VOTE FOR BENGIE
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
I voted Minaya
The Mets have the biggest payroll, a mediocre (at best) team, An unimpressive farm system and he yells at reporters. Also he is responsible for, possibly the worst trade of all time:
Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee & Grady Sizemore for Bartolo Colon
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
this
Les Plack = more chicks
Dingerz.exe League Champs 2009- The Rile Rods...managed by yours truly.
by Headhunter Rollins on Jan 26, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
here's a head-scratcher
Minaya vs. Jim Duquette vs. Steve Phillips
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I'd say Phillips is the worst
Just because he can’t even identify good looking women. Also Kazmir for V. Zambrano.
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
That was Duquette.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
The second part, I mean.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Ah, after checking Wikipedia you are correct
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Yep. That was why a lot of Mets fans were excited about Minaya when he was first hired. LOL Mets fans.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
It must suck to be a Mets fan
but to get excited over an Ex-Expos GM…wow
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Well, the Expos once had a great track record for developing prospects. That was before Minaya’s time, though.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
True
Vlad Guerrero was very good…and Sizemore, Lee & Phillips turned out well
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Randy Johnson?
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Yes, we were all excited about the RJ signing. But there’s no need to get express that certain feeling.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
Larry Walker
Marquis Grissom
Jeff Fassero (LOL)
Kirk Rueter
Sean Berry
Wil Cordero
Rondell White
Cliff Floyd
Plus they made great trades for Moises Alou and Pedro Martinez when they were young an undervalued.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Andre Dawson
Ellis Valentine
Tim Raines
Gary Carter
Warren Cromartie
Larry Parish
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
good call
You’re getting back to before my time, now.
I mean, I remember most of those guys playing, but they came up before my time. I hadn’t even realized Parish was an Expo, actually. I just remember him with the Rangers.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Don't forget the Big Cat!
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Moises Alou was young once?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jan 26, 2010 7:00 PM PST up reply actions
Somewhere, I have his rookie card!
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
He has yet to pee on his hands in this picture.
My career path, have you seen it?
by say hey nation on Jan 27, 2010 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
The trade wasn’t as bad as it looks now – they were very good prospects, but I don’t think anyone could have predicted all three would become really good major leaguers. Terrible trade, but not as terrible as it looks.
I was promised lasagna.
Wait, Colon was only with them for half a year. And they traded him for two bad players and a good 37 y-o starter with injury problems, who ended up not pitching a single inning. I was not aware of this. Terrible, terrible, terrible trade.
I was promised lasagna.
There were extenuating factors, though. The Expos were hanging on by the skin of their teeth in Montreal; it was pretty clear the team wasn’t going to be there long. If there was ever a time to go all-in, this was it.
I guess. It’s the second part that’s weirder. It’s not as bad, but it’s less defensible. The just gave him away.
I was promised lasagna.
Yeah, I forgot about that. There may have been budgetary considerations — the team was actually owned by MLB at that point.
I would also like to mention this (pardon my soccer)
Striker, Robbie Keane
*July 2008: Sold by Tottenham to Liverpool, £20.3m.
*Feb 2009: Sold by Liverpool to Tottenham, £12m.
I was promised lasagna.
this reminds me...
Several years back, there was a guy who got traded back and forth between the same two teams like four times in one year. I can’t remember who it was or who the teams were, though
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
A baseball player, that is.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Rafa Benitez is crazy, mainly.
Keane had a really good year in 2007/2008. Then he didn’t do well in half a year for Liverpool, and they gave up on him. He’s been pretty good since.
That kind of sounds like something the Giants would do, actually.
I was promised lasagna.
I don’t even think that will help them at this point. Villa or Man City will take the fourth CL spot
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 26, 2010 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
He’s not crazy. Just mind-bogglingly stupid
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 26, 2010 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
Rafa Benitez has one of the worst transfer records in all of Europe. He wastes so much money. I’m hoping those rumors of him coming to Juventus are a bunch of bull.
FREE BUSTER POSEY
I haven’t heard these rumors, but I’m personally hoping he stays with Liverpool as long as possible.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 26, 2010 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
It’s like Milo with his eggs from Malta
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
You know, sometimes I have a hard time finding Milo funny because I get so sick of him by the end of the book. In my opinion, Heller spends too time writing about him, on the expense of more interesting, less annoying characters (mainly Dunbar, who’s supercool, and the Chief).
I was promised lasagna.
Yeah I agree
Dunbar is one of my favorite characters and I wish he got a bit more attention than Milo does
Most of the early Milo scenes are entertaining, but the one where he steals the bed sheet or whatever takes too long and isn’t as funny as it should be to warrant that long a scene.
By the end of the book, he’s just gross.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I think the only thing written about Dunbar is about how he tries to make time move slower. Except for that it’s all conversations with Yossarian. He had to be “disappeared” because Yossarian needs to be alone by the end, but he could have had a bit more written about him before that.
The one that gets me with Milo is when he goes with Orr and Yossarian around the Mediterranean. Drives me mad.
I was promised lasagna.
Yeah, I hate that part too, though it foreshadows what happens in the AWOL in Rome chapter, kinda.
I loved Dunbar’s interactions with Yossarian and I liked the “disappeared” thing, but I wish he’d had more to do before that. He was always just kind of there for every scene but I think what was there was interesting enough that I wish it had been fleshed out more
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
But Milo’s essential thematically. He’s American capitalism emerging triumphant from the war in all its naive glory. The surreal comic version of the Quiet American.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
No doubt. He’s crucial to the story, and he’s a brilliant character. Bombing the squadron, betraying Yossarian and signing striking a deal with Catchcart, killing Snowden, abandoning Yossarian in Rome, the Egyptian cotton affair – all fantastic. But some of his other scenes drag on too long, and Heller usually puts them between really interesting Yossarian/Chaplain scenes.
I wouldn’t have thought of calling him naive, though I guess he’s naive for believing his own rationalizations, as opposed to, say, Korn, who doesn’t actually believe his own words, or Cathcart, who’s just an idiot.
I was promised lasagna.
another terrible trade along similar lines
Heathcliff Slocumb to Seattle for two minor leaguers: Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe.
Amazingly, that was several GMs prior to Bavasi’s reign of terror.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Jeff Bagwell for Larry Anderson!
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I voted for Moore, but if you look at the Mets, the fact that a team with a core of Reyes, Wright, Santana, Beltran, etc. is so bad (with a huge payroll) is pretty awful
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
They’re not bad, though. They were in 2009, but that was mostly an injury-related fluke. Overall they’re a good team that just hasn’t been able to get over the hump.
Minaya does a lot of dumb things (and he should clearly delegate the building of a bench to someone else), but he has made a lot of great moves. Signing Beltran, trading for Delgado, trading for John Maine and Oliver Perez and Santana, locking up Reyes and Wright … these are unequivocally good moves.
Re-signing Oliver Perez, not so much.
The Mets aren’t awful except for last year, but they also have won over 90 games once in his tenure and made the playoffs only once, despite a fantastic core and a huge payroll.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
No question he’s had a disappointing run. But if you followed the Mets in the 60s or the late 70s or the early 90s or the early 00s, you know it’s possible to do a hell of a lot worse even with a huge payroll.
Or if you followed the Astros right now
VOTE WADE
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
On opening day
He & Sabes will trade ideas of how to be a successful GM
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Well, the main reason they’re so bad was because of injuries. As I said elsewhere, other than last year’s 70 win season, they’ve put up 97, 88 and 89 wins the other 3 of the last 4 years…
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
Should a payroll as big as the Mets really be resulting in sub-90 win seasons? and missing the playoffs?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
No, which is why Omar is not a good GM, but he’s not bad on the levels of Dayton Moore.
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
Well, I voted for Moore. But I think Omar has made enough bad moves to put him in the discussion.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Maybe in the discussion, but I don’t think he deserves serious consideration with the top dogs…
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
I think the current voting as I type this is pretty accurate on the top 4: Moore by a mile as the worst, followed by Sabes and Wade neck and neck, and Minaya trailing by a bit.
I think Colletti should be in the discussion with Sabean/Wade, though I can understand why Giants fans wouldn’t vote for him. Colletti sucking is awesome!
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 5:38 PM PST up reply actions
Their farm system is fine
Mejia, Holt, Davis, Martinez, Flores, Niese, Havens, and others I haven’t mentioned all comprise a solid farm system, even if only a few of their players (or in some eyes, only Mejia) project to be an all-star
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
I'm not that impressed with their farm system
it’s not as bad as the Astros but its not that great
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
I voted for Sabean because he makes me the angriest.
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
it's too bad we didn't do this a couple of years ago
There was lots more competition, what with Ricciardi, Littlefield, Bavasi, and Bowden.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Who is worse Littlefield or Bavasi?
That one is tough
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Easily Bavasi. He had a team lose 100 games with a $100M payroll! That’s unbelievable; you’d almost have to try to do that. Littlefield stunk, sure, but even a smart GM would struggle to do much with the Pirates. There’s just no margin for error with a small payroll. With $100M, you can make some mistakes and still field a good team.
That's true
I’ve been convinced
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Aren’t the Giants basically one or two injuries away from that very result?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 27, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
I disagree. Lincecum and Pablo are integral pieces to success, but it’s not like they’re carrying the team. We certainly don’t have much in the way of stars outside of them, but the rest of the guys aren’t horrible, just okay. Even when the Mets lost pretty much everyone to injury last year, they didn’t come close to 100 losses.
If they lost Sandoval and Lincecum’s 13 WAR and they were otherwise as good as last year, when they were a “true” 82-win team, that would put them at 69 wins. If they then were as unlucky as they were lucky in 2009, that would be another six losses. Boom. 63-99. It’s not likely, no, but nor is it unfathomable.
What about
Allard Baird (Sp?) the GM for the Royals before Dayton Moore
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
I don’t see a reason to include MacPhail, he seems to be doing a pretty good job to me. They actually have a lot of good young talent. Markakis. Wieters. Roberts is still good. That Bedard trade was amazing – netted them Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, George Sherill and a couple other prospects, and Sherill has since been turned into two more prospects from the Dodgers. They have Bergeson and Matusz. If it wasn’t for being in the AL East, I’d say they’re poised to make a run in the next year or two. I think they’ve done a very good job in Baltimore.
I probably wouldn’t have included him if I hadn’t just see him say he thought Garrett Atkins really improved the team in the Tejada press conference. But yeah, he’s pretty much in the Rizzo category – terrible team, not really his fault.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Regional bias, but I really do believe there’s a chance the O’s could make a Tampa Bay-esque leap in 2011 or 12.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
No doubt. You know he bought the O’s out of receivership for pennies on the dollar. He was given a license to print money and he just flushed it down the crapper.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I know all too well. I grew up in Baltimore and know the Angelos family well (personally). He has been an incredibly shrewd businessman and what he did with MASN and the Nationals deal was pure genius. But he is also singlehandedly responsible for the fact that this team has finished in last place pretty much each of the last 12 seasons. It would be interesting to see who polls higher there these days, Angelos or Robert Irsay.
At least at this point he’s backed off on getting too involved in baseball stuff and gives his GM more freedom to actually run the team like it should be run…
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
technically speaking
Baltimore doesn’t have a GM. They don’t use the title. I have no idea why.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
He’s the “President of Baseball Operations.” Not sure what that means either, but I would wager that it has to do with his relationship with John Angelos.
But unlike Rizzo who’s just taking over, MacPhail has already done a number of good things to put them on a track towards competitiveness again.
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
What did you expect him to say? He’s not going to trash the guy he signed before he even plays a single game.
I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?
well, if I were him
I would’ve started by not signing Garrett Atkins.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
What does it hurt? He’s not blocking any legit prospect, they need placeholders for a year. Atkins holds a glove and stands near an infield corner, and hits an occasional home run. They hope for more than he showed last year, and will likely get less.
I just cannot see how this, pretty much a “meh” move by any standard, neither brilliant nor egregious, could possibly throw him into a discussion of worst GM. But then, you’ve had this discussion already, so I won’t belabor that point.
I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?
Enh, like I said, it was an in-the-moment overreaction.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
This
MacPhail has no business being anywhere near the rest of these guys.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
fair enough
When I almost made this post the other day but then got distracted, he wasn’t going to be on the list. Like I said, it was an in-the-moment overreaction to seeing him at the Tejada press conference, where he talked about Garrett Atkins improving the team. Hell, even in my blurb above I said he hadn’t done anything particularly wrong.
I had also thought about including Kenny Williams. He’s such a hard GM to figure out for me. He does a lot of stuff that’s really dumb, but he also does a lot of good stuff as well.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
KW is tough
he burns through his farm system but his prospects don’t really pan out…Chris Young (the CF), Brandon McCarthy aren’t that good. Chris Carter might be good though
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Brian Anderson as well
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
It’s fine, it’s impossible to know all the ins and outs of every teams players, let alone their FO. I just happen to follow Baltimore a bit, since they’ve got a bunch of young talent all hitting the majors right now.
Kenny is tough to figure out. He goes back and forth, year to year, doing stupid shit and smart shit.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
I said Moore. Minaya’s second, and I think Sabes probably takes the bronze. Hendry and Wade narrowly beat out Colletti to round out the top 5.
Petey and Fresh always dunking on Spartans,
Biscuits in baskets from Heatley and Thornton,
Bam-Bam and Gore on the way to some rings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
incidentally, if you google 'worst gm in baseball'
The top three results all refer to Sabean.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
are they from this site?
Les Plack = more chicks
Dingerz.exe League Champs 2009- The Rile Rods...managed by yours truly.
by Headhunter Rollins on Jan 26, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
Nope.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
1. Dayton Moore
2. Omar Minaya
3. Ed Wade
4. Brian Sabean
5. Ned Colletti
Those are my top five. Moore hasn’t made one good move besides the Greinke contract, and he’s made plenty of terrible decisions. Minaya gave 3/36 to Oliver Perez, he acquired Gary Matthews Jr., he has $150M, and the Mets still suck. Wade somehow managed to be terrible in a division with the Pirates and Reds with a $100M+ payroll. Sabean is Sabean, Colletti is Sabean-lite with a bigger payroll, so he’s been more successful, which explains the relative success. But he has gained (and lost, because fuck the Dodgers) points with me after the Kemp, Broxton, and Ethier deals, all of which were under-market (especially Kemp’s).
MacPhail shouldn’t be on this list; he’s made some great moves (Erik Bedard, anyone?). He’s had some great drafts, and made some astute FA signings. Without the pressure of the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays (i.e. if the O’s were in the AL Central) that’d be a competitive franchise. Basically Missing Barry’s post. Rizzo’s been pretty good too IMO; though the Marquis and Pudge contracts were too expensive, he’s been hampered by an absolute lack of anything on which to build. The Nats have got zero talent, and that’s not his fault; things like the Nyjer Morgan trade make me think Rizzo could turn the Nats around in five years (because, barring Strasburg for three All-Stars, it’s impossible to make that franchise competitive in the NL East before then).
It’ll definitely be interesting to see the Nationals in a few years if Strasburg and Harper both pan out.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
It definitely will. I’m even thinking of going to NatsFest this weekend. On the other hand, Harper appears (in the showcases and Pan Am games) to be coming down with a fatal case of draftitis. It’ll be interesting to see if he falls. If so someone’s gonna look pretty stupid for the opting out of high school decision.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I think his hype will trump his draftitis
unless he gets decapitated I can’t see him falling past the 2nd spot in the draft
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Colletti is Sabean-lite with a bigger payroll, so he’s been more successful, which explains the relative success
Well done, me. Colletti is Sabean-lite with a bigger payroll, so he’s had more resources, which explains the relative success.
Still you gotta give credit for the Ethier/Bradley deal. It’s virtually impossible to imagine Sabes pulling off a similar steal (at least without turning around and DFA’ing the Ethier character 19 ABs into the following ST).
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Schmidt & VanderWal for Armando Rios & Ryan Vogelsong
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
I always forget Vander Wal was part of that trade. Or was a Giant at all.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
He was a pretty good hitter. No room for him once we got Reggie Sanders. I miss Reggie too.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
I always thought that maybe, he was gonna be the one to save me.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 26, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions
Well to clarify — I was referring to the idea of moving a vet for top prospect type deal, and on top of that moving a vet who everybody in baseball knows you’re desparate to move and still getting that kind of quality for him.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Well then the best response I got to that is Jim Brower.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
I feel satisfactorily vindicated by that response.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
But he has gained (and lost, because fuck the Dodgers) points with me after the Kemp, Broxton, and Ethier deals, all of which were under-market (especially Kemp’s).
What did he gain here? I’m unfamiliar with their deals, I just know he inherited a lot of good young talent that is being paid below market because they’re still under team/cost control.
As for the Mets, yeah, they were bad, but they have some really bad injury situations. They’ve been hit harder than normal, and before that they weren’t too bad, they just fell apart and looked really bad the way they just missed the playoffs a few times.
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
Ethier got 2/15, Kemp got 2/11, and Broxton got 2/11. All very team-friendly deals and far under market value, especially Kemp. I pegged their 2010 salaries a lot higher, and I’m very surprised Colletti managed to get such a great deal done for all of them.
And yeah, the Mets had injury problems, but they fell apart in 2007, they fell apart in 2008, and while 2009’s failures can be blamed on injuries, the near-complete lack of pitching can’t. Johan Santana can’t pitch every inning all year.
I dunno, those 3 deals don’t seem that great – they seem fairly in line with the raises we’d expect through arbitration (actually based on the 40-60-80 concept of arbitration they seem like bigger raises than the players should get based on last year’s salaries), and while Kemp seems like a steal, guys like him don’t fair as well in arbitration as they should because arbitration doesn’t use very advanced statistical measures. I think it’s fair to say they got a great deal on Kemp, but I think the other two are pretty fair.
As for the Met’s, in the last 4 years, they’ve won 97, 88, 89 and 70 games. It seems like the 70 and the way they collapsed (but still won high 80’s) is skewing the perception, they have been pretty succcessful overall (though of course they should be with their payroll). I dunno, it just strikes me as out of place to put Minaya, who I do think isn’t a good GM, in with the horrible ones.
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
Moore
Wade
Minaya
Sabean
Colleti
Hendry
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 26, 2010 1:36 PM PST reply actions
Before he was hired by the Royals, he was the most overrated GM candidate EVAR! He almost got the Red Sox job in 2005.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 26, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
Schuerholz's assistants aren't doing that well
Frank Wren traded Adam LaRoche, sold the farm to get Texiera, traded Texiera and wound up with LaRoche as his 1B…
In a way it’s kinda like the Patriots assistant coaches sucking as head coaches in the NFL (& College football)
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
ESPN has a poll on VORP as a statistic
82% of the readers doesn’t know what it is.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
They also had a writeup of why the “run” is underrated as a statistic the other day. I could only read the first paragraph because it was Insider, but the headline pissed me off. Haven’t we gotten past that yet? No Jim Caple? God.
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
Run is a good statistic. It is just not a good stat to evaluate individual player.
It is, however, a good stat for evaluating TEAM performance.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Was that the gist of the article? Obviously it’s a good stat to evaluate team performance, runs decide if the team wins, after all….
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
It was about evaluating individual players’ performance. It was at least as dumb as you might imagine.
That’s pretty much what I expected out of ESPN/Jayson Stark….
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
I actually do think “runs” are underrated, since they don’t get nearly as much attention as RBI
I mean, look at Fred Lewis last year. People were constantly harping on his RBI but didn’t seem to realize he was 1st or 2nd on the team in runs scored
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I actually do think "runs" are underrated, since they don’t get nearly as much attention as RBI
Well, we all know neither of them should get any attention. :)
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
True!
But if people are going to harp on RBI totals, they shouldn’t ignore runs.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
That Jim Caple article was definitely the facepalm of the day yesterday. You should have seen the comments on it. The stats folk came out in force and really killed him for that. It was beautiful to behold.
ezb230 (1/25/2010 at 1:37 PM)
It’s painful to watch progress being undone. Its like watching someone build a home with outhouses instead of indoor plumbing.
umwatt (1/25/2010 at 1:16 PM)
Horrible article. Would not read again. Do not recommend.
WestyChiSox21 (1/25/2010 at 12:23 PM)
You might as well have written an article saying the Sun revolves around the earth. You’re arguing science and you are beyond wrong.
FernGull2 (1/25/2010 at 11:57 AM)
is this a joke
rpeltz38 (1/25/2010 at 11:33 AM)
Jim is busy furiously working on his next article, “Why Kickers are Worth More Than Quarterbacks.”
“It’s all about how many points you score! Drew Brees only scored 12 points this year!”
Wow
I never thought of using Football to convince people that RBI and RS is misleading. It’s perfect.
I was promised lasagna.
mr sabean, i get the feeling that....
Les Plack = more chicks
Dingerz.exe League Champs 2009- The Rile Rods...managed by yours truly.
by Headhunter Rollins on Jan 26, 2010 2:13 PM PST reply actions
I just don’t know of any other GM other than Omar that’s wasted so much money in free agency and still has a sucky team…. But yea Moore is pathetic, i can’t even remember when the last time the Royals were good, and i’ve lived 21 years
to be fair
A lot of the years the Royals sucked were long before Moore got the job. Allard Baird was incredibly terrible, too.
That’s something I notice about this list, too: a lot of the worst offenders on this list took over from other bad GMs. Sabean for Bob Quinn, Moore for Baird, Minaya for Duquette.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
So hence, what Moore is doing is trying to fix this mess…. then how do we answer the question of worst GMs if all they’ve been trying to do is fix the disasters the previous GMs have made?
Every single move Moore has made since he took over in 2006 has been horrible. So there’s that.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
well
I guess the 2008 draft, with Hosmer and Melville, was good on paper. Hosmer’s been terrible so far, and Melville hasn’t exactly dominated yet either.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
His drafts have been okay on paper, but they haven’t produced much yet.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Yeah, Aaron Crow wasn’t a bad pick at #12. I forgot he went to the Royals.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I dont’ think they’ve signed him yet (though I imagine they will)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
But he’s created a lot of his own disasters/messes in response to Baird’s disasters/messes.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
“Allard” and “Dayton” are both stupid names, too.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
"5.0 24 k daytons" sir mix alot
Les Plack = more chicks
Dingerz.exe League Champs 2009- The Rile Rods...managed by yours truly.
by Headhunter Rollins on Jan 26, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
LOL
trading Leo Nunez for Mike Jacobs and getting Jose Guillen as a “middle of the order” presence
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
That was too easy to mock
but seriously trading a top pitching prospect who pissed in the bushes for one of the worst players in the game?
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Read Moore’s description again, and then remember what state the Royals were in when he took over. I think he takes the gold.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Jan 26, 2010 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
Hang on WRT Sabes here… Sabean took over, and almost immediately the team was incredibly competitive from 1997 to 2003. So he can hang his hat on that.
But at this point in time, I don’t think you can use any sort of “Sabean took over the team from another crappy GM” as any sort of defense for his roster construction techniques, especially omre than 10 years later.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
No, and I wasn’t trying to say that at all. It was just something I noticed in passing.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I voted sabean on principle
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Reallly not a contest.
As much as Sabean’s moves drive me crazy sometimes, he looks like Norman Einstein compared to Moore.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
BREAKING NEWS!
MCC DECLARES SABEAN THE EINSTEIN OF GMS!
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
I'd rank them
1a) Moore
1b) Wade
3) Minaya
4) Sabean
5) Colletti
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
Doesn’t look like we’ll be having a runoff for this poll.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I actually like what the Nat's have been doing
Rizzo has had absolutely nothing to work with. He’s made a couple Sabean-style moves by signing averagish veterans, but that should be an improvement over the in-house crap they’ve been throwing out the last couple years. If they do end up signing Orlando Hudson, they won’t really have any glaring holes anywhere on the diamond. I don’t think they will be making a playoff run in the immediate future, but I don’t think they’ll be at the bottom of the cellar either.
Adopted father of the prettiest player in the organization, Nestor Rojas.
I voted Colletti, but not for any good reason. Just because he’s a Dodger.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 26, 2010 5:37 PM PST reply actions
Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere but...
*Foul language warning for those watching at school or work
Was that made by a McCoven?
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 26, 2010 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
Dayton Moore
Disaster after disaster.
"I never watched baseball on TV. It's slow and boring. I'm not a fan. Never was." - Jeff Kent
So if it is a steel cage death match, does only the winner survive?
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 26, 2010 7:13 PM PST reply actions
easily dayton moore
but omar minaya is a close second. moore is twice as incompetent is sabean, which is truly mindblowing, and trades for guys like yuniesky freaking betancourt
I’m not seeing what makes Minaya a close second. I’ve laid out my reasoning why he isn’t anywhere close to Moore earlier in the thread (and I’d say definitely better than someone like Wade, who spends a decent amount, has a horrible farm system, AND a horrible MLB team)…
by Missing Barry on Jan 26, 2010 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
he's constantly
trying to make a “big move” than can turn around the franchise, like going after jason bay. mostly, it’s giving bonehead deals to players that aren’t worth that much, and not having any depth on the team
But he’s still had a pretty good amount of success overall. I think he’s been a poor GM – with his resources, he should be consistently on top of the NL, but again, 3 of the last 4 years he’s posted 97, 88 and 89 wins. That’s not that bad…
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 6:43 AM PST up reply actions
Ed Wade
Every fourth move or so, Moore’s outside of the box thinking pays off, instead of being bizarre and pointless.
Wade is terribly unimaginative AND the Astros organization seems to terrible in every aspect.
FU, FO
There might be some ownership meddling in Houston
Or so I’ve heard from people at the Astros’ SB Nation site. Thus, I’m more inclined to give Wade a little more leeway… but yeah, he’s down near the bottom
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
Ed Wade
Simply because I can find no real redeeming value in him. Crappy signings (Lee, Lyons), crappy drafting (passed on Smoak for Jason Castro), crappy trading (Jason Jennings!)… he even apparently inspires his players to put him into chokeholds on occasion (Chacon). Even before his Astros tenure, he was best known for his legendary predilection for signing middle relievers.
Moore, on the other hand, while obviously terrible on the whole, has generally been considered to be a reasonably good drafter (with mixed results), and occasionally made a good signing (Greinke’s deal, Gil Meche) or trade (Bannister for Burgos). Hendry’s bad, but not in the Wade/Moore league— he strikes me as thoroughly mediocre more than anything. Minaya’s, Sabean’s, and Colletti’s modest virtues have already been discussed to some length. Rizzo and McPhail don’t belong in the discussion.
Castro is supposed to be a pretty big time prospect at a more valuable position. I don’t think that was a good example.
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 6:44 AM PST up reply actions
Plus they have Jiovanni Mier, who I think is supposed to be a high-upside SS who will stick to the position
(though this is not me saying that 2 good prospects make a good farm)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
Picking Castro over Smoak was seen as a real head-scratcher at the time. He has gotten off to a good start in the minors, though.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I’m all for “judging the process” when it comes to MLB talent, but when it comes to drafting/scouting minor leaguers, I’m just going to acknowledge the limits of my baseball knowledge/ability and wait for the results, and judge the guy based on how their prospects pan out. So far, that one specific pick is looking pretty good. But yeah, in no way am I trying to argue for Wade – his MLB team sucks, his farm system sucks, and he spends lots of money…I’m just defending that one draft pick.
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
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