SAN FRANCISCO, CA — The San Francisco Giants have extended non-roster invitations for Major League Spring Training to the following 22 players, club Senior Vice President and General Manager Brian Sabean announced today: right-handed pitchers - Denny Bautista, Santiago Casilla, Rafael Cova, Steven Edlefsen, Eric Hacker, Osiris Matos, Tony Pena Jr., Felix Romero, Dan Turpen and Craig Whitaker; left-handed pitchers – Craig Clark and Clayton Tanner; catchers – Steve Holm, Johnny Monell, Hector Sanchez and Jackson Williams; infielders – Ehire Adrianza, Brandon Crawford, Nick Noonan; outfielders – Wendell Fairley, Roger Kieschnick and Thomas Neal.
about 2 years ago
Grant Brisbee
597 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
GIANTS INVITE HACKER TO SPRING TRAINING
Hacker expected to fit in well with other Hackers.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
by GiantPain on Jan 21, 2010 3:19 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
too easy
I am an American aquarium drinker.
Adopted Giant: Daryl "Dealio" Maday - 4.4 K/9 in AA. Don't expect to see him in SF any time soon.
that's what she said
What's the matter with Sabean?!?!? He's a bum!
by The Montana Giant on Jan 21, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Damn I miss the Hackman.
Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info
by cybermaldonado on Jan 21, 2010 9:57 PM PST up reply actions
I totally have one of his bats
it’s sweet. Says “Hac-Man” right no the bat
Monday Monkey lives for the weekend, sir.
More likely an Egyptian God...
…as in Osiris, god of the dead. According to Wiki his green skin symbolizes re-birth. He’ll blend right in with the grass on the infield; making him especially hard to pick up.
by Charming Devil on Jan 21, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn’t count on Eugenio surprising everyone this spring
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 21, 2010 8:17 PM PST up reply actions
So, how many days until ST?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
None if you have a time machine.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Time machines cause the passage of time to be unquantifiable?
I guess that makes sense.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
Guey
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 21, 2010 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
You should have slipped Eric Byrnes into this list just to watch everyone go nuts.
#1 FanShot Champion
twss
sorry, its like pavlovs dogs now
Les Plack = more chicks
Dingerz.exe League Champs 2009- The Rile Rods...managed by yours truly.
by Headhunter Rollins on Jan 21, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, man. I should have. Maybe I still will.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 21, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
gotta stop a rainin for there to be a spring trainin
Les Plack = more chicks
Dingerz.exe League Champs 2009- The Rile Rods...managed by yours truly.
by Headhunter Rollins on Jan 21, 2010 3:21 PM PST reply actions
Schulman says it's going to be a cold and wet Spring in AZ
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
That’s just his incontinence talking.
/auto-defenestrates
something something jhiat00 will swindle
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 21, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
Are you saying he has El Niño in his pants?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 21, 2010 7:34 PM PST up reply actions
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 21, 2010 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
Clayton!
Adopted Giant: Clayton Tanner
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jan 21, 2010 3:21 PM PST reply actions
Might be cool to finally get a chance to see this mythical Adrianza character…
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Jan 21, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
STEVE HOLT!
I am an American aquarium drinker.
Adopted Giant: Daryl "Dealio" Maday - 4.4 K/9 in AA. Don't expect to see him in SF any time soon.
will we finally find out if neal
is in fact for real?
by sadison bummedgarner on Jan 21, 2010 3:23 PM PST reply actions
he’ll be making his appeal.
I am an American aquarium drinker.
Adopted Giant: Daryl "Dealio" Maday - 4.4 K/9 in AA. Don't expect to see him in SF any time soon.
How do you truly feel?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
no more rhymes, and i mean it
Les Plack = more chicks
Dingerz.exe League Champs 2009- The Rile Rods...managed by yours truly.
by Headhunter Rollins on Jan 21, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
Got no time to have seen it?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
anybody want a peanut?
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
Inconceivable!
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
That word, I do not think it means what you think it means
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Jan 21, 2010 11:36 PM PST up reply actions
If I was bleeding, it would congeal.
I am an American aquarium drinker.
Adopted Giant: Daryl "Dealio" Maday - 4.4 K/9 in AA. Don't expect to see him in SF any time soon.
okay with me if it’s okay with Jaleel!
by sayheybk on Jan 21, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
unreal
I am an American aquarium drinker.
Adopted Giant: Daryl "Dealio" Maday - 4.4 K/9 in AA. Don't expect to see him in SF any time soon.
Just ask Lou Seal
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t see what’s the big deal.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
He wears no pants, doesn’t have to, he’s a seal
Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !
His favorite color is teal.
I am an American aquarium drinker.
Adopted Giant: Daryl "Dealio" Maday - 4.4 K/9 in AA. Don't expect to see him in SF any time soon.
Eric Byrnes at league minimum would be a steal?
Keeping on SWOOPing in the free world! Also, by the reflexive property of the rubber/glue playground comeback, I enjoy wearing hats on my ass.
by SneakToBetterSeats on Jan 21, 2010 7:22 PM PST up reply actions
I feel like he’d be our achilles heel
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 21, 2010 8:23 PM PST up reply actions
After diving into a wall he would have to heal.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
Byrnes throws to the infield as if he slipped on a banana peel
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 22, 2010 8:20 AM PST up reply actions
Rowand throws just like him but sadly,
he came in on a five year deal
Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !
Great, now you're making me want to cry again
We’re not yet halfway through the Rowand contract OR the Zito contract.
Hey, I guess that’s something to be optimistic about in 2010: it’s Over The Hump Year on both contracts! WHOOOO!
What’ll be really fun is 2014, when we get to pay Zito $7 million not to pitch for us.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Think he would take that deal now ?
pleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !
Like Michael Jackson, "lets beat it"
What's the matter with Sabean?!?!? He's a bum!
by The Montana Giant on Jan 21, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
Like Weird Al Yankovic "lets eat it"
/Bengie
by E Ticket on Jan 21, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
Giants catching depth chart
1-Molina
2-Whiteside
3-Holm
4-JAX
5-Bochy
oh… and Posey
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
I would very much like to see Neal launch baseballs into the parking lot
across the street
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
Steve Holm!
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 21, 2010 3:30 PM PST reply actions
LOOK
A SEAGULL!
VISIT
THE-OP.COM
FOR
ARRESTED
DEVELOPMENT
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Steve Holt!
Raises both hands in air in triumph
by crazedcrustacean on Jan 21, 2010 5:57 PM PST up reply actions
I watch must of season two in the airport…7 hour lay over
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Jan 22, 2010 6:32 AM PST up reply actions
NEAL CRAWFORD KIESHNICK HECTOR SANCHEZ
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Your 2012 SF Giants!
Buster Posey, saves Pandas, plays catcher for the SF Giants.
by PandaPower48 on Jan 21, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Neal posted that this will be his last non-roster invite.
Expect explosions to happen in Fresno this season.
No, that wasn’t a Fresno meth lab going BOOM. That was Thomas Neal hitting a single.
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 22, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
You need to write a diatribe of how overly optimistic McCovey is
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
Please include a David Tennant Scottish accent. I don’t know how that looks on paper, but do it!
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
WARM AND FUZZIES
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
I might be the most excited to see Adrianza.
Also: Edlefsen. I still really want him to do well. And power sinkers are awesome.
I was promised lasagna.
Speaking of which
I’m surprised not to see Scott Munter on this list.
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jan 21, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
He's at Home Depot
trying fix his busted sink
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
zinger
Adopted father of the prettiest player in the organization, Nestor Rojas.
by stealth snail on Jan 21, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
lulz
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 23, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
Grant:
I have a vague memory of you interviewing Edlefsen, but I can’t find it now. Did I hallucinate that?
I was promised lasagna.
Get back to sniffing your glue
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, OK
Wait, is he the power sinker guy? I’m not sure which one of them I like now.
I was promised lasagna.
OK, this is weird
Seems like I merged Palazzolo’s backstory and Edlefsen’s numbers in my head, thereby creating a 6’ 10 tall sinker/slider guy who learned how to pitch from the Baseball Think Factory, sounded really intelligent in an interview for McC, and showed good stuff but poor command across three levels last year.
That guy was awesome. And he is no more.
I was promised lasagna.
True story
My good friend in Mass. is dating his sister
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Is she hot?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Indeed she is
I believe I was told they’re half siblings. She’s not freakishly tall like Steve.
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Oh I missed the rest of this thread and I thought you said your friend was dating his (as in, your friend’s) sister.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Families that sleep together, stay together!
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I thought the same thing, i was wondering what was going on
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
THAT'S HOW RUMORS START!
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 6:31 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry I can figure out how to post the links here.....
….but here’s a clip I took of Steve Eldefsen from S-K a couple years back.
http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e370/juaneatsbox/?action=view¤t=Edlefsen.flv
He’s not so much a ‘power sinker’ as a guy who gets on top well and misses a lot of bats. Low BAA and a 9+ K/9. Plenty of reason to like him even if he’s not a 9 foot power sinker guy.
by chefasaurus on Jan 22, 2010 11:17 PM PST up reply actions
HEY GUYZ THESE NON-ROSTER INVITEEZ ARE GOING TO ROCK YOUR WORLD, HERE COMES UR 160-2 GIANTZ
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
1 loss because Bochy puts out a lineup without Pablo and the other loss in when Lincucum is pitching against the Reds in August…
Buster Posey, saves Pandas, plays catcher for the SF Giants.
by PandaPower48 on Jan 21, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
I can’t believe no one is freaking out over Hector Sanchez. HE IS COMING AND BRINGING POWER AND PATIENCE WITH HIM!!!!
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
Tony Pena, Jr - as a pitcher!
Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)
Versatility
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
NOOOOOONNNNAAANNN!
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
The Rapture took off with him
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
Wendell Fairley Haters
Why did he get invited? You’re wrong to give up on this guy. He never played college ball, has dealt with injuries, is still young, entering only his third pro season, and has put together some decent stretches (last July, a 378 OBP).
The Giants must believe he’s not a total wash-out if he’s coming to camp.
Molina had a .382 OBP in May, 2008
by www.westcoastbias.com on Jan 21, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
maybe they want to see for themselves why he sucks so hard?
by microwave donut on Jan 22, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
Tony Pena, Jr.
Last man in the bullpen/late inning defensive wizard at SS
Adopted father of the prettiest player in the organization, Nestor Rojas.
Great excerpt from Schulman article:
The Giants have taken the first step with some good position-playing drafts. For that, they have gained praise from publications like Baseball America (which the Giants’ front office believed was ill-informed when it criticized their system before).
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/index#ixzz0dIaPZtyE
we have a system?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
THE SYSTEM. IS DOWN. THE SYSTEM. IS DOWN.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
RAVE PARTY
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
SNEAK! STOP PLAYING WITH THE LIGHTSWITCH!
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail45.html btw
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
I’m surprised the Giants’ front office is in any way familiar with publications like Baseball America.
Thing A
(Baseball America’s) credibility isn’t worth a damn to me," he said. "I don’t know what they use for a formula to decide what’s a good organization and what isn’t. Detroit was their No. 1 organization for three straight years, and obviously Detroit was getting an opportunity to draft at an excellent spot. However, none of those people have helped them win any games. So how do you feel about that organization being No. 1 now?That was a quote from the director of player development for the Giants, Jack Hiatt, in response to a Chronicle article about the Giants minor-league system. Hoo. Must feel nice to get that off your chest, Jack. One little problem, though. Detroit was never the number one organization in any of Baseball America’s rankings. They were never really close, much less at the top spot for three straight years.
Here’s what the amatuer sleuth in me can piece together. Jack Hiatt is the director of player development for the Giants. He has heard of this magazine which employs professional writers to gather and distill opinions about minor leaguers. He doesn’t read the magazine. He hears of the content second-hand, maybe from dirty limericks etched into urinal walls at minor league ballparks. This confirms his suspicions that other people’s opinions are bad, and he quietly resumes his work of not producing any hitters.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 23, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
Surprised Pill didnt get an invite.
Im not a Pill defender or anything like that, but the way the Giants had him as only 1 of the 4 hitters to come to the at hitting session with Meulens a couple months ago, it made it seem like they were high on him.
Its funny because fuck the dodgers
he didn't get a non-roster invite
…because he’s on the 40-man roster.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Giants high on Pill
…makes sense to me.
by KrazyKrabMeat on Jan 21, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
BITCHES!
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
I’m not okay with the level of genuine optimism in here. I’m going to go read Molina’s fangraphs page now
Monday Monkey lives for the weekends, sir.
Sounds good… alright, ready? GIANTS SUCK, THEY WILL NEVER WIN A WORLD SERIES, HELP US PLEASE SOMEONE!
I give you hug. Come on, PiKAgiant. I like you.
by Bengie Molina on Jan 21, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
You don’t need nobody else, PiKAgiant. You have me.
by Bengie Molina on Jan 21, 2010 6:32 PM PST up reply actions
Come on, PiKAgiant
I am rich. I show you lots of respect.
by Bengie Molina on Jan 21, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions
really with the double negatives…I thought you were better than that
Monday Monkey lives for the weekend, sir.
I got 4 million bucks. I don't need english
by Bengie Molina on Jan 21, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions
just curious, is this someone who posts regularly?
Baltimore: A horseshit city
Sometimes I just want to be a Pirates fan. No pesky expectations
by BringBackBenitoSantiago on Jan 21, 2010 6:46 PM PST up reply actions
i assume everything said will be good… the giants will be fine blah blah blah, the giants might win the west blah blah blah
I doubt he’ll say they’re going to win the division. But I would venture to guess that there are few people anywhere who make a habit of going on the radio and talking about all of the things their boss is doing wrong.
Miller isn’t that way. Remember the “And that’s the worst baserunning in the history of the game”?
"meh"
Masturbating to a pic of Ryne Sandberg
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 21, 2010 7:15 PM PST up reply actions
Personally… i like what he has to say, screw me, i know, but i dont care, he might say something pretty stupid, but it’s aight
when I walked into the other room this evening, and he was on the radio, all I heard was
“The Giants HAVE to bring in Eric Byrnes.”
I sighed, and went to watch Fringe.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
that's awesome
but of course he doesn’t really think that. He’s just saying this in his Stephen Colbert-like alter ego, cunningly crafted to satirize sportstalk radio. It’s hilarious!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:16 AM PST up reply actions
Interesting, thanks for the heads up. Jon is talking to Bochy right now and he said something that scares me a little, Freddy Sanchez might not be healthy enough to play at the start of the year,
#1 FanShot Champion
They were talking about Renteria’s health and Jon asked Bochy how Sanchez was doing and he got quiet. Basically saying that Sanchez might have to take it slow through Spring Training and he might not be ready to go at the start of the year.
#1 FanShot Champion
Glad we rushed to sign him to a two year deal.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I knew it.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Jan 21, 2010 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
Giants crack medical team
So when is Sanchez due to have a rib removed?
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Well maybe if they weren’t doing crack they be better able to do their job! < cough > Noah Lowry < /cough >
I would prefer them to just sign Hugh Laurie to be their doctor
some of that medical dialogue on House probably rubbed off on him, right?
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Also
it’s not like there are quality 2B’s like Orlando Hudson and Felipe Lopez still available so what were they supposed to do?
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
I was about to say
Kelly Johnson
Akinori Iwamura
And then I realized I was chasming. Insomnia sucks.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
F. Sanchez worst signing of this offseason by far!
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Jan 21, 2010 9:03 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree
Uribe was worse IMO
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
If they knew F.Sanchez wasn’t going to be ready … they kinda had to sign Uribe didn’t they? Or do you want like … FBAL at 2nd?
Hey, remember when the Pirates got Akinori Iwamura for a 26-year old middle reliever with a 2.03 SO/BB ratio? Yeah.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
KUNDALINI WANTS HIS HAND BACK
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 22, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
We still had Rohlinger & Frandsen as Utility guys
and I stilll have hope that Frandsen can start
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
I never swear on this site
But you have got to be fucking kidding me.
You people really want to make me cry, don’t you?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
/remembers when the Giants briefly planned to have Eugenio as our opening day shortstop
/remembers it ended up being Bocock instead
/cries
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I’m holding out til Sanchez hits the 60 day DL, Molina’s bloodbath of a coup arrives, and Rent falls apart.
Then I figure I’ll be able to at least watch Buster, and probably Jazzy, and Rohlinger, oh wait, I’m holding out until Neal arrives and Buster’s established I guess. Fuck.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Jan 21, 2010 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
re: Posey
Boch says:
Will be heading to Fresno. With Bengie back it’s not in Buster’s “best interest” to be the backup. Whiteside did a great job for the Giants last year. As of now looks like it’s going to be Bengie and Whiteside.
#1 FanShot Champion
I guess that’s okay.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I’m still in soccer mode. If you’re 23 and have yet to establish yourself in soccer, you’re pretty much considered a bust.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 21, 2010 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
Guess that means the game is too easy if you master it at 23
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
There’s a difference between establishing yourself, and mastering the game
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 21, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
I’ve heard that term used tons of times in reference to football and baseball. i.e “Matt Ryan has already established himself as a top quarterback in the National Football League”
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 22, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions
MATT RYAN!!!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
JOE FLACCO YOU SONS OF BITCHES
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 23, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
lol no, in tennis you practically peak at 23 and it is by far an easy sport to master, probably more difficult than baseball
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Jan 21, 2010 11:43 PM PST up reply actions
Wait, what?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I think he means “far from an easy sport to master.” Not “by far an…”
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 22, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
Tennis players peak young because of the physical wear and tear, mostly on their legs (from so much running on concrete) and shoulders (from serving). Older players frequently have greater skill (both tactically and in terms of strokes), but it doesn’t make up for the fact that they’re falling apart.
Also, the premium on quickly changing direction makes the size and mass of a fully grown adult a liability.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 22, 2010 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
You could also say baseball is too easy because you can still play it at 35.
I was promised lasagna.
If I can still get a job playing baseball
You know it is too easy.
by Bengie Molina on Jan 22, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
If they were gonna sign Bengie that’s the only thing that makes sense. I’d have gone for the pitchfork if they made him a backup.
I wish I knew why they bothered to call him up last year.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 21, 2010 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
Get the pitchfork anyway
you’ll probably need it soon
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
That’s fine as long as that isn’t the setup in June.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
So am I. But then again, not really
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 21, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
HE"S ALREADY STILL BROKEN!
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Jan 21, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
There is Kevin Frandsen
If I keep saying his name will he remain on the Giants?
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
If I keep buying lottery tickets, will I become a millionaire?
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
HE'S STILL BROKEN ALREADY!
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Jan 21, 2010 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
So you’re saying there’s a chance?!?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 22, 2010 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
WHY IS WENDELL!
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 21, 2010 7:13 PM PST reply actions
Really? Why?
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 21, 2010 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
Well I guess he has that goin’ for him
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 21, 2010 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
because we are facebook friends :)
Keeping on SWOOPing in the free world! Also, by the reflexive property of the rubber/glue playground comeback, I enjoy wearing hats on my ass.
by SneakToBetterSeats on Jan 21, 2010 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
Wendell Kim
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
That kid on the Simpsons
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 23, 2010 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
Also, excited at the chance to see what Ehire does.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 21, 2010 7:18 PM PST reply actions
Anyone listening to Giants Hot Stove league show?
Bochy just said F.Sanch wont be ready for the start of spring training, and possibly not ready for the start of the season!
Its funny because fuck the dodgers
more jazz hands...
if we’re lucky.
but bochy might see uribe as “too valuable coming off the bench.”
which means DeRosa to second, and likely VROOOOM to left field.
/gouges eye
this might be why Uribe was signed in the first place...
or at least part of the reason.
If Sanchez starts the year on the DL, we can expect some more Frandsen, or so I’d wager.
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
I still say Frandsen is DFA
It will be a competition between Rohlinger and Downs for the utility role. I would think Rohlinger would have the edge because he’s played third. Then they could play him at third and Pablo at first for the late-inning defensive subs. (That assumes that Ishikawa does not make the team, which he still might.)
since Uribe, Velez and DeRosa are all pretty much locks to be on the opening day 25 man I would think Ishi actually has a better shot of making the team than Rohlinger.
Thing A
What, exactly, does Velez provide that Rohlinger doesn’t? I mean other than comedy.
Gold, Pure Gold. Simple but elegant and factual.
Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !
Downs and Rohlinger both have options
I’m pretty sure Frandsen is now out of options. That means it would be lower risk to give him the utility role and send the other two down. Since that’s what makes sense to me, the Giants probably won’t do it…
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Jan 22, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
I know there's a Fanshot but here's the AP story...
San Francisco Giants second baseman Freddy Sanchez has undergone left shoulder surgery and it’s unclear if he will be ready by opening day.
Manager Bruce Bochy confirmed to The Associated Press on Thursday night that Sanchez had an arthroscopic procedure. Bochy had earlier told KNBR radio of Sanchez’s surgery. The skipper said it would ‘’be close’’ for Sanchez to be ready by opening day.
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
That’s gotta be worth the 6 Mil, then, right?
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Jan 21, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions
I mean I’m just assuming he had a physical before he signed the 2/12
Pretty impressive though if he passed a physical with an injury that requires surgery.
Heck, I’m not even mad. That’s amazing.
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
LOL Giants doctors
Good thing Huff and DeRosa have never been injured. Oh wait…
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
GIANTS DOCTOR
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jan 21, 2010 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
Is teeth retention important to you?
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Jan 21, 2010 11:46 PM PST up reply actions
GO AWAY
’BATIN
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
new sig
or better yet, should be McC header until opening day.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Bengie Molina: "I don't understand why they didn't want to commit to another year, with my numbers and my experience and things like that." Brain Sabean: "He's certainly welcomed back with open arms".
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 25, 2010 7:18 AM PST up reply actions
This is the only explanation for all of these shenanigans, imo
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I always figured the team doctors were just Sabes and Baer in lab coats.
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants!
Boo Shemp!
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 22, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Jan 21, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions
You should go to the Giants medical staff
they can remove 1 of your ribs
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Apparently the Giants medical staff won’t find anything wrong with him though
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
If Molina and Sanchez can pass physicals, I think I’ll be fine.
I ALREADY WORK AROUND THE CLOCK!!!
FREE BUSTER POSEY
I look forward to the CSNbot’s fanpost about you passing your physical.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
Wow, so even the news of you passing your own physical will be broken by the CSNbot?!
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
Man, what will Mychael Urban think about all this?
We should make a fanpost asking this same question.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
Question from Mike the Scout:
Where you actually there for Bengie’s physical? Was he embarassed? Were you embarassed?
TELL US ABOUT BENGIE’S HEART RATE!
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
I want my
ribbie back ribbie back ribbie back- ribs!
/Noah
/Bengie
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:20 AM PST up reply actions
Even if it could, you know Sabes would never do this.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
Giants fans didn’t get to see the real Freddy Sanchez this year. He really stepped up for us, playing hurt even at the cost of his own statistics, and provided a great example for our young kids.
- Brian Sabean, November 2010
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Another thing I like about this site, I do not have to provide proof for my arguements, cause someone else almost always will.
no matter how sad it is.
:(
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
psst, check the date
It’s not real. I’m just riffing off his praise of Renteria for, you know, hurting the team by playing hurt.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
psst, check the date It’s not real.
or is it…..
Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !
Jesus Fucking Christo I cannot believe this, I’m sorry for swearing like this but this really infuriates me
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Jan 21, 2010 11:46 PM PST up reply actions
In other stupid news
Convicted cocaine user Ferguson Jenkins – who was once banned from the game indefinitely for drug use but weaseled out of it – lashes out at Mark McGwire for using drugs. wheeeee.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
But recreational drug use is detrimental to one’s performance… he was doing the opposite of cheating.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 22, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
Cocaine is a stimulant, and therefore speeds up reaction times and can improve alertness and attention. One would expect it to improve performance much like “greenies” (amphetamine).
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants!
The effect doesn’t last long – you’d have to be doing a boost every inning or two… trust me, it’s not an effective performance enhancer.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 22, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
Depends on dosage and method of administration. But you’re right, it’s effect is much shorter than amphetamine, and it would have to be taken pretty much constantly during each start. Still, unless he developed dependence issues, it probably wouldn’t adversely effect his performance.
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants!
Coke hangovers can last days. Maybe that’s what you mean by dependence issues, but if he was partying during the season I think it would definitely hurt his performance.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Whew. So all my fears that Timmy was a tweaker were unfounded. (getting really thin, sweating all the time, always restless)
JUST A CITY BOY
by shanghaijim on Jan 22, 2010 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
Hey, Rick Ankiel signs with the Royals. That should make a lot of KC fans happy.
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
OPTIMISM!
At least the Giants didn’t give Dayton Moore a five-year extension!
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
holy shit, if we think the local media is uncritical of Sabean, check out this article on Moore
Dayton Moore’s been on the scene less than two years, and already has long been a primary reason for Royals fans’ optimism.
He missed out on some big targets-Andruw Jones and Torii Hunter and Hiroki Kuroda-but added some middle-of-the-order pop in Jose Guillen and a big reshuffling of the bullpen in trying to continue the momentum of rebuilding a club that’s finished last four straight years.
Then, there’s a total puff-piece interview. He’s asked about his favorite Bible verse, they talk an amazing amount about sweater vests, and he predicts the Royals will beat the Braves in the World Series this coming season. So, uh, wow.
http://royalsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/11
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
err, wait
Actually, this is from a couple of years ago. There’s no date on the article, and the most recent comment was from December 2009. But before that the comments are from February 2008. Okay, it’s SLIGHTLY less inexplicable that the guy considers not signing Andruw Jones to be “missing out” on a “big target.”
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
LOL ROSE COLORED GLASSES
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
McC Rose colored glasses
Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !
Nice
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 22, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
LOL
Adopted Giant: Clayton Tanner
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jan 22, 2010 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
I’m all for believing in your team, but you don’t have to pretend to be dumb in order to do it.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 21, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
wow
whatever happened to the cheapskate Royals that played kids and shipped them out? They once had Johnny Damon, Jermaine Dye, and Mike Sweeney- when they were good.
How many years does Greinke have on his deal? The Giants have a slightly-used Aaron Rowand they may be interested in!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:22 AM PST up reply actions
I don't know that I'd be so smug
I’d say that acquisition has a better chance of working out than Huff. (Not that that’s saying much.)
This has been a rough week for two of my favorite pastimes
Sports: Giants-Molina & Sanchez, Warriors-Being the Warriors, 49ers-looks like they’re actually moving to Santa Clara.
Politics-Coakley loss, the disastrous Supreme Court decision today, healthcare reform all but dead
I really like Santa Clara and the area where the stadium would go is very nice and accessible, but I’m still counting on someone to jump in at the last minute and somehow keeping the Niners in San Francisco. Aren’t they planning a massive cleanup of Hunter’s Point?
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 21, 2010 10:24 PM PST up reply actions
I know lots of teams don’t play in the city they live in. But it won’t be quite the same with the team not playing in San Francisco
by DFAAurillia on Jan 21, 2010 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
What did the Supreme Court do?
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Only pretty much destroyed one of the facets of the election process we had been using for 40+ years.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/21/campaign.finance.ruling/index.html?hpt=Sbin
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
Thanks for the reply.
Ooh. That’s a big one, no doubt about it.
Anybody know how the Supreme Court is going to shape up over the course of Obama’s presidency? Any conservatives going to retire soon?
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Not likely. Looking like he’s going to just replace the liberal ones. Justice Stevens didn’t hire his full complement of law clerks this time so he’s probably going to retire.
by DFAAurillia on Jan 21, 2010 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
It's hard to say
But if Obama gets a second term, some of the more conservative justices will be pretty old by the time Obama leaves office – by January 2017, Scalia and Kennedy will be 80.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I could see Kennedy retiring, but Scalia never will. He’ll die while he’s on the court.
I understand the idea of wanting to keep them above politics, but this lifetime appointment business should really go. Why not just give them 20- or 25-year terms? I’m not wild about 90-year-old geezers deciding important legal matters.
I’m sure Scalia would try to out-wait any Democratic administration even if he wanted to retire, anyway. But most people don’t live to 80. That’s why it’s hard to say.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Most people don’t live 80 years, but the life expectancy of a man who has already managed to live 72 years is 84. I’m gonna go ahead and guess that’s even higher for affluent people like Supreme Court Justices.
Yep
I’m not saying, “OMG HE’S GONNA DIE!” Just that, when people are getting into their 80s, you never know, sadly.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Let's not go there, okay?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
A complete disaster. Just shows that when all those conservative justices scream about judicial activism it really rings hollow
by DFAAurillia on Jan 21, 2010 10:54 PM PST up reply actions
Especially since the original scope of the case didn’t really call for any of this.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
IIRC, wasn’t that McCain-Feingold law the one Bush didn’t veto because he said the Supreme Court was going to overturn some part of it, but they didn’t do it?
Bush gets his last laugh, huh? Not only does the law eventually get overturned, but others before it do, too.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
just calling balls and strikes
ball five!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:24 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, cuz they decided that the Constitution was something that should be enforced.
Who’d a thunk? Judges, using the Constitution. Weird.
This is not really an enforcement of the Constitution. My brother in law is part of a union that forces him to register to vote and is always bombarding him with “suggestions” on who to vote for. This new ruling actually allows companies to straight endorse candidates publicly. What is to stop them from doing the same to their employees?
They dump a ton of money directly to the candidate that will do what they want, blowing the other guy out of the water in spending. Voters are easily swayed, and plenty of people vote on what they can remember from TV or ads. Those laws were put in place to protect more balanced elections.
This will cause a problem.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
Wait wait wait
the cannot give unlimited monies to candidates. they can however spend unlimited monies. this has always been available for people to do it now has been extended to corporations and unions.
Well
Whatever you think of the ruling, there’s more involved that unambiguous constitutional mandate – as is almost always the case, really. There’s the question of whether giving money counts as “speech,” and whether freedom of speech applies to corporations and unions, rather than just to individuals.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
This
There are many ways to interpret how the 1st amendment applies to this situation. The reason many consider this decision “activism” is because it overturns so many years of judicial precedent, and because the ruling extends so far outside the scope of the case they were reviewing.
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants!
There’s the question of whether giving money counts as "speech," and whether freedom of speech applies to corporations and unions, rather than just to individuals.
Therein lies the rub. If a corporation is defined as an individual (or person if you prefer), their “voice” is generally louder than an average individual. How does it help the democratic process if one “individual” voice is much louder and more present than others. It’s also easy to be the loudest voice when you have the resources to present your information based on self interest rather than what is best for all. I realize that this may be a naive position to take on my part, but I have to believe that I still have some presence in the political direction of this country. With this ruling another piece just slipped away.
This changes the level of discourse to the virulent “town hall” atmosphere that has occured recently. Whomever yells the loudest will be heard. No decourum, no reasonable fact based discussion, no debate. Only the loudest will be heard. Giving money is akin to free speech only in the fact that if you have the resources, you have the ability to say what you want over…and over….and over…louder…and louder…whether it is the truth or not.
When having money gives you the right to “free speech”, which has now happened, only the rich will speak. They are not speaking for you and I.
Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !
amen brutha
Whoever invented rope was a real a-hole!
by Cannonballden on Jan 22, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
The constitution doesn’t confer on corporations the status of personhood (and therefore the protections afforded by the Bill of Rights) – that was a Supreme Court decision.
Why is it desirable to have immmortal, amoral, unaccountable and unfeeling entities participating in the political process?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 22, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
And that means you, too, Zeus!
JUST A CITY BOY
by shanghaijim on Jan 22, 2010 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
Why you gotta be hating on xanthan?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
ugh
yeah I was already disappointed with the concessions they’d made for healthcare (most notably foregoing the public option, wtf use is a mandate if there’s no cheap public option available?), but now they’re talking about MORE concessions, just because they only have a 59 seat majority… ridiculous.
I say use the damn nuclear option. The filibuster rule as it stands is completely ridiculous, and has gone from something that was only used rarely to basically requiring 60 votes to get anything done in the senate.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Agreed, the nuclear option should have been 1st item on the agenda. Filibusters are arguably unconstitutional, having led to the requirement of a supermajority for passing legislation. They’re also just a bad idea, sort of the federal equivalent of California’s disastrous requirement of a 2/3 majority for passing a budget.
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants!
i sort of get it
I mean, everyone should get a chance to talk before a vote, and if they want to give a long, impassioned speech, more power to them. But A) they should have to be talking the whole time, and B) they should have to stay on topic.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Theoretically, yes, there is a bit of logic to it. But in practice, it provides little to no value (compared to just giving a generous time limit), and does a tremendous amount of damage. And it’s not rocket science either – it takes the average person about 7 seconds to realize the problem with it, and 4 more to think of a way to fix it.
I was promised lasagna.
Oh, I dunno. Giving limited power to the minority is the difference between a liberal democracy and an illiberal democracy. Filibusters are cool when you’re the one doing them.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Oh, no doubt
limited power to the minority is the difference betweena liberaldemocracy andan illiberal democracytyranny of the majority
But practically speaking – what value do filibusters, in their current form, provide? I think they just give the minority powers it has no right to have. And they’re unconstitutional in practice, even if not in concept.
I was promised lasagna.
The minority needs to have the ability to stop itself from being steamrollered… unpopular minorities being a pain in the ass is the American way.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
Ironically, it would make more sense in the House
But since the Senate is amazingly unrepresentative by design, it means that people representing a very small portion of the country can screw everyone else over.
The Senate in its current form is pretty much a useless institution that does nothing but hurt American democracy.
IMO. But what do I know.
I was promised lasagna.
I disagree with you so much.
I value its preservative nature. (Think jam!)
I’m not a big fan of rapid change. The filibuster makes it so that only the things that the people really support get pushed through. There’s a much higher potential for really scary things to happen in terms of governmental power when the benchmarks for making laws are low.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
I wouldn’t call a majority a “low benchmark”. Or, at least I wouldn’t if politicians would vote outside party lines once in a while.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
plus
there’s the whole house of representatives thing. Passing laws in America isn’t exactly “easy” without the filibuster, and the way it’s being used now goes completely against its intent.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Well, I know that. I just like the way it works to slow much of the laws up until a large proportion of the country decides, you know what, it is a prudent action to take.
Spur-of-the-moment can be very bad sometimes.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
The problem with filibusters now is that they don’t “slow much of the laws up until a large proportion of the country decides”, they shut them down permanently (or rather, until the party pushing the filibuster wants it to stop)
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
When I said slowing, I meant longer periods of time.
As in surpassing entire election periods and tenures.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
The constitution says a simple majority is required to pass a law. Filibusters say you need a 60-40. I prefer sticking to the constitution, thank you.
I was promised lasagna.
I don’t know. I just like jam.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
I’m pretty sure liking jam is mandatory in the constitution. I think it’s somewhere in the back.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Written in jam, in fact.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
But when it’s easier to make laws, it’s also easier to repeal them. If people don’t like the laws that are passed, they can vote the guys who made them out of office and get them changed. Making it easy for the minority to prevent the majority from enacting its legislative platform undermines accountability, because the electorate will judge the majority for results (or lack thereof) even when those in the majority have not actually had the opportunity to implement their desired policies.
this too
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I for one am rather comforted by the fact that in the upper house of Congress Rhode Island and Wyoming have as much say as California or New York. Direct democracy is NOT a good thing.
JUST A CITY BOY
There has to be common ground. I like that the Senate slows change to some degree (it’s perhaps one of the reasons our government has been so stable historically), but it’d be nice to decrease the amount of clout that small states have. Not sure how it do that.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
The House of Representatives has nothing to do with with direct democracy. Quite the opposite – it’s the most basic and logical form of representative democracy (says so right in the name!).
“Wyoming” is group of Americans. “California” is a much much larger group of Americans. They’re voting for the American Congress. Whoever is elected will affect all of America. Why should the small group of Americans have as much power as the big one?
I was promised lasagna.
Because this country is not a single entity. It is a union of 50. The authors of the constitution had to come to a compromise to get the buy in of smaller states when establishing the government. Smaller states were very correct in being wary of tyranny by a select few highly populated states. To a certain extent, it still happens despite congress being split into the house and the senate. It is their way of avoiding being dictated to by urban population centers.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2010 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, I’m perfectly aware of the reason for the Senate’s existence. The Senate made sense at the time. It still makes a bit of sense now. But, in my opinion, not even close to enough sense to make up for the damage it causes, both in principle and in practice.
And if there are more people in urban population centers, then yes, they should have more power than people in rural areas. Just like white people have more power than black people. Just like Christians have more power than Jews. Just like people over 25 have more power than people under 25.
I was promised lasagna.
But this isn’t just urban population centers versus rural areas. It comes down to states rights. The 10th amendment was included for this very purpose.
To your point, the more populated states do have more rights in the house than rural states. They get a bigger say in 50% of the legislative branch of our government. If you are proposing an elimination of the senate, you should give states like Wyoming the opportunity to secede from the union. It would be preferable to the inevitable civil war it would cause.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
State rights are important – I’m definitely not arguing against the 10th amendment. And if the Senate were abolished, states would still be able to choose their own representatives – I’m not advocating national elections to the House.
Your second paragraph is all true. I acknowledged that getting rid of the Senate now would be almost impossible. But that doesn’t change my opinion of it.
I was promised lasagna.
See, but that's the problem
We have representative government in half of Congress and not in half.
As such, small states have MORE representation than big states. Say what you will about the flaws of big states having an impact, it’s insane to have each Alaskan have a much higher impact on Congress as a whole than each New Yorker, Californian, or Texan
Even in the House, smaller states are overrepresented.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I don’t see how the Senate causes “damage”.
The biggest mistakes in US Gov are laws that are passed, not laws that are prevented from passing.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Indeed
If it hadn’t been for the filibuster, Jim Crow laws would have been abolished 30 years earlier. Thank God we slowed that down.
You realize that a majority of the Senators involved in the filibuster were Democrats?
And that it eventually passed?
Don’t blame me for your party’s racism.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Wait, what?
The main supporters of segregation were Southern Democrats…so of course the majority of senators involved in the filibuster were Democrats. Why would he not realize that? How is this in any way relevant to the discussion? Nobody even mentioned any parties before you. We’re talking about filibusters and the senate.
The bills didn’t pass, actually. Are you thinking of the 1957 Civil Rights Act filibuster? That’s not what he’s talking about. He’s talking about the filibusters in the 20’s and 30’s (5th and 7th paragraphs).
I’m not sure what you’re trying to achieve with your last sentence. It has nothing to do with what we’re talking about, it’s aggressive for no apparent reason, and it makes no sense. Who’s blaming you for anything? Why is it “his” party?
You only get so many Democrats Were Racist cards. Don’t waste them on times where they have no effect.
I was promised lasagna.
Taliesin and were engaged in a right v. left debate for nearly a week recently, I am entirely confident I know his political party, and am accustomed to his tendency to bring up slavery/Jim Crow whenever tangential to the subject.
The continual insinuation is that the US right wing was primarily at cause, when the left wing in America has been just as, if not more, culpable. Consider the rebirth of the KKK that was triggered by Progressivism.
I tire of it.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
I seriously have no idea what you’re talking about. Your comment isn’t even close to being relevant to what we were talking about.
Nobody said anything about right and left, or Democratic and Republican. You brought that up out nowhere, for no apparent reason other than that you “tire of it” (“it” being an argument nobody here actually made or discussed)
We’re talking about filibusters. FILIBUSTERS. taliesin said that filibusters delayed the end of the Jim Crow laws by 30 years. He’s right. Am I right that you were thinking of the Civil Rights Act? And do you now agree with taliesin’s comment?
Finally – even if you’re right about his political affiliation, that doesn’t necessarily make the Democratic party “his” party. And even if it is his party, that doesn’t mean that he has to take responsibility for something people in that party did 30 years before he was even born. And even if it does, your comment remains aggressive for no reason, and completely irrelevant to the discussion.
I was promised lasagna.
Next time, I’d take some time to let the other side have their say before making a decision one way or another.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Read it. Stand by my response. But thanks.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
OK. I regret being so jerky in my last comment.
You just seem hellbent on tying the current Democrats to segregation, which I personally think is silly, and more importantly ,it that has nothing to do with the filibuster as a rule within the senate.
I definitely understand your sentiment regarding the value of a filibuster as a bulwark against rash change, but taken within the context of your other more political-charged comments, it makes your arguments lose credibility as anything more than a comment on current events.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
One question you have to ask yourself before you start jumping on my back for an “irrelevant comment”: was taliesin’s comment relevant to the discussion, either?
You say we’re talking about FILIBUSTERS.
Press the up button 5 times and you do not get a single mention of the word filibuster. Press it a 6th time, and we get your comment “filibuster…so ridiculous”.
The previous 5 comments were all to do with the nature of the Senate, and its relative merits. My comment that he responded to:
I don’t see how the Senate causes "damage".
The biggest mistakes in US Gov are laws that are passed, not laws that are prevented from passing.
Jim Crow laws were not caused by the Senate, so you cannot say that the Senate caused that particular historical injustice. And since the abolishment of Jim Crow did occur, you cannot say that that particular form of law was prevented from passing. Yes, it was delayed, but taliesin’s comment in no way invalidates my comments.
Now, his comment: “Indeed:If it hadn’t been for the filibuster, Jim Crow laws would have been abolished 30 years earlier. Thank God we slowed that down.”
Sarcastic, biting, and not nearly as related to the subject as you think it was. I believe I was well within my rights to give him the response that I did, and it was no more irrelevant to the discussion than his was.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
I don’t see how the Senate causes “damage”.
Were it not for the Senate, at least the most egregious Jim Crow laws would have been abolished thirty years earlier. I think an extra thirty years of apartheid in a large portion of the country qualifies as “damage.” And I don’t know that there have been too many bigger mistakes in the history of the US Government than the failure to abolish Jim Crow when they had the chance. Seems pretty relevant to me.
That’s all true, and there was damage dealt.
But the Senate was not the source of the damage. The state legislatures were. The Senate did not cause damage, but you’re right, it did have an opportunity to subvert the laws that did cause the damage.
At the time, many progressives harbored notions of racial superiority, and were favorably inclined toward all sorts of deplorable theories, eugenics being one of them. I’m no fan of the actions of the Senate in this particular case.
In individual cases, the Senate helps the right side, and in other cases, it hinders the morally upright side. It’s a net benefit, though, not a net cost. A curb against the slippery slope toward tyrannical government, as it were.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
At the time, many progressives harbored notions of racial superiority, and were favorably inclined toward all sorts of deplorable theories, eugenics being one of them. I’m no fan of the actions of the Senate in this particular case.
By the way, this paragraph is just strange. For starters, I don’t get the point — how is this relevant? But it was not (or at least not mostly) “progressives” who opposed anti-lynching laws, it was Southern Democrats; those guys weren’t progressive. “Progressives” in those days were Republicans and, to a somewhat lesser extent, Northern Democrats. Those progressives who favored civil rights for “coloreds” were mostly Republicans, since at that time African-Americans supported Republicans about as unanimously as they now do Democrats. The failure of the Dyer anti-lynching bill actually represented a bit of a turning point in the attitude of blacks toward Republicans, as they felt betrayed by the failure of a Republican congress to pass one of their highest priorities.
Lastly, I’m surprised you haven’t made the argument that the Dyer bill was unconstitutional anyway. Perhaps that’s a bridge too far even for you?
Wilson was the premier progressive of the period. He carried the entire south.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Teddy Roosevelt says “hi.”
There were progressives, and racists, in both parties. At that time the two things just didn’t have much to do with each other or with party affiliation.
Every Democrat carried the entire South in that period — but that came with the cost of accommodating the segregationists in the Democratic party. Wilson was a racist, but he was actually sympathetic to greater rights for blacks, and attracted support from them in the 1912 election. Once in office, though, he felt it was more important to keep the segregationists (who were, yes, mostly Democrats) in his column at the next election, and as a result his presidency may well represent the nadir for race relations in the US. It’s all quite shameful, but it’s extremely inaccurate to say progressive = segregationist.
but but but
democrat = progressive, didn’t you know!?!?!?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Answering this would take a lot more detail and much more information than is convenient in this medium, so if you don’t mind, I’ll let this subject rest.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
btw sorry about the nasty tone of the response I had up there.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Really? We discussed filibusterers in this very thread, as you’ve acknowledged. The Senate was mentioned in that context (and later out of that context). taliesin’s comment was relevant both to the discussion about the senate and to the discussion about filibusters (and it was relevant to your comment too, because of your claims about the Senate and not causing any damage, and about how lack of action from Congress isn’t the problem). Your reply about Democrats was relevant to neither. I mentioned that to you, and you just talked more about Democrats. Frankly, it seems like you, at some point, learned the Democrats’ roles in segregation, realized what powerful weapon that could be, and decided you’re going to use it in every argument, regardless of whether or not it’s relevant.
Now, back to the topic. Of course Jim Crow laws were not caused by the Senate. If they had been, taliesin wouldn’t have brought them up, would he? They are an example of lack of action from Congress that damaged America. They’re also an example of filibusters causing damage. And they’re also an example of the Senate causing damage, which you claimed doesn’t happen. Not causing damage by making laws, but by killing laws the House passed.
Your comment about whether or not it was prevented is nitpicky at best. The bills in the 1920’s and 1930’s were prevented from passing by Senate, thanks to the filibuster. And by that, the abolition of Jim Crow laws was prevented in the 20’s and 30’s. The fact that 40 years later they were abolished anyway doesn’t change that.
His reply was sarcastic, biting, and completely relevant both to the general discussion and to your comment (and even if you disagree, you can still see why he thought it is relevant). Your comment was a random snipe that bordered on a personal attack (“your party”), and made absolutely no attempt to be in any way relevant. It was just a pointless cheap shot, and not a very good one at that.
I was promised lasagna.
It was an example of the Senate forgoing an opportunity to prevent damage.
In no way was the Senate a root cause of the damage.
I understand why the example of slavery & Jim Crow is a favorite in arguments against prudence of action in government (and states’ rights on another level). But the root of the problem lies not in the system of government but rather goes centuries back to pre-United States American history.
It is impressive that such a system of limited government was able to eliminate the seeds of discord planted so long ago, is it not?
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
No, not really. The US was really really late to the slavery abolition party. That is really nothing to be proud of. It’s the equivalent of hearing that a drunk driver ran over seven people and a cat on his way to work, and saying “wow, it’s impressive he managed to get to work, isn’t it?”
Whether the Senate was “the root of the problem” is completely irrelevant. The only question is did it cause damage. If it hadn’t been for the Senate, Jim Crow laws would have been abolished in the 1920’s. Because of the actions of the Senate, they weren’t. In the time after that, bad things happened that damaged America. Those things wouldn’t have happened if Jim Crow had been abolished. The Senate filibusters in the 1920’s damaged America.
I was promised lasagna.
While this is a moderately good example, there is a danger of oversimplifying the matter.
Say this law did pass, before the civil rights movement. Then comes the enforcement. There was greater animosity those decades before the 50s and 60s, and I am sure you recall that it took federal troops to begin integration of schools.
Perhaps if the law had been passed, enforcement would have been possible. But by what measures? Occupation? This is not very soon after the civil war, and northern occupation.
You cannot deny that the cause of Jim Crow was a regional problem, resulted from the acts of individuals, and the laws of states. Without the full 60 Senate votes that were present decades later when a similar law did pass, the 20s/30s law would run the risk of becoming a law in name only, and not in fact.
Now, I disagree with the decision. I still think it was a mistake. But given these other considerations, I would not call it one of the 4-5 biggest federal legislative mistakes in US History.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
You’re not going to convince anyone with sophistry. If I see a baby carriage rolling down the sidewalk towards me and I intentionally step out of the way and let it roll in to traffic, I may not be the “root cause” of the damage, but I sure as hell am responsible for it.
More like
Seeing a baby carriage rolling down the sidewalk, seeing someone running to stop it, intentionally blocking and preventing that person from stopping it, and then claiming you didn’t do any damage, because it’s not like you pushed the baby down the sidewalk.
I was promised lasagna.
Well, I already identified the filibustering of that law as deplorable in my book.
And given the fact that the law would have been passed in opposition to the desires of the southern states, it’s more like seeing a person pushing a baby carriage down the sidewalk, with an accomplice brandishing a knife at you, and you have a knife in your pocket, and you have to weigh the risks of charging at the two men and trying to save the baby, though you might end up getting stabbed yourself.
Saying that if the law were passed, all of the damage caused by the people and state governments in the South would have simply not occurred is simply not factually accurate.
There are no magic wands in any walk of life, much less in politics. It’s a trade-off the moral North had been making since the very inception of the nation, sacrificing the rights of the African slave and the colored citizen when the alternative would have been a fractured union of states and possibly two nations where there now there is one.
The American colonies in the south formed with quite different ethnic backgrounds and a radically different economic system. The other nations that you may cite as being early to the “slavery abolition party” were old and structurally unified at the time.
Considering the tradeoffs and hard work that came from Madison, Jefferson, Lincoln, and others to reconcile these competing agendas, I am actually personally saddened by your characterization of the whole affair as “a drunk driver running over several people and a cat on the way to work.”
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
The other nations that you may cite as being early to the "slavery abolition party" were old and structurally unified at the time.
These are the countries in the Americas who abolished slavery before 1863:
Haiti
Argentina
Chile
Mexico
Bolivia
Ecuador
Colombia (one year after the US passed the Fugitive Slave Law)
Venezuela
Panama
Jamaica
Uruguay
Peru
It’s a trade-off the moral North had been making since the very inception of the nation, sacrificing the rights of the African slave and the colored citizen when the alternative would have been a fractured union of states and possibly two nations where there now there is one.
It was always going to be a fight, that’s true. I don’t see how putting it off helped anyone. Do you think the violence that would have occurred if Jim Crow had been repealed in the 20s and 30s would have been worse than what ended up taking place in the 1960s? I personally think the failure of the federal government to step in and stop the worst abuses early on (We can’t even agree to stop mob executions?) may have actually helped to further entrench the more backward elements in the south. But obviously that’s speculative.
Getting back somewhere near the point: sometimes passing laws is necessary, and sometimes the alternative, not passing them, would be for the best. One is by no means always better than the other. If nothing else, a new law might be written to repeal one that had previously passed. So it’s a strange philosophy to argue that the risk of passing bad laws is so great that all kinds of anti-majoritarian hurdles (other than those already present in the Constitution) should need to be overcome to pass anything.
And the existing anti-majoritarianism of the Senate already prevents us from changing useless and harmful laws, like farm subsidies, that disproportionately help small states.
Getting back somewhere near the point: sometimes passing laws is necessary, and sometimes the alternative, not passing them, would be for the best. One is by no means always better than the other. If nothing else, a new law might be written to repeal one that had previously passed. So it’s a strange philosophy to argue that the risk of passing bad laws is so great that all kinds of anti-majoritarian hurdles (other than those already present in the Constitution) should need to be overcome to pass anything.
Yes. I agree with you. This is all good stuff. I happen to like the extra hurdle in the Senate, but it is by no means critical. And we agree on the malignant nature of farm subsides- common ground! I was thinking up some laws that I would put in my top 5-6 most damaging, in case you asked, and farm subsidies was one of them.
Here are the comments that I particularly objected to (and you were not the source of either of them):
The Senate in its current form is pretty much a useless institution that does nothing but hurt American democracy.Reasonable men can disagree about the merits of the filibuster, but I do not believe that eliminating the entire Senate will help American democracy.
The US was really really late to the slavery abolition party. That is really nothing to be proud of. It’s the equivalent of hearing that a drunk driver ran over seven people and a cat on his way to work, and saying "wow, it’s impressive he managed to get to work, isn’t it?"My response is two posts above.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Reasonable men can disagree about the merits of the filibuster, but I do not believe that eliminating the entire Senate will help American democracy.
I’m a bit confused by this sentence. Are you saying “reasonable men” can’t support the elimination of the Senate? I would find that a bit odd, considering this is a response to me (and taliesin, I think) arguing exactly that. Either that or the sentence is just poorly structured.
Now, I don’t think you actually made your point about why you think the Senate helps America so much. It seems that you agree that, on principle, it’s not justifiable in toady’s America (especially since small states are already overrepresented in the House), because you haven’t argued against that point. Practically, you like it because it’s a hurdle, but you didn’t show a single example of the Senate blocking some tyrannical law the House wanted to pass, when taliesin asked for an example.
I think we’ve explained why we think the Senate hurts, both in principle and in practice.
I don’t really get your response regarding my second quote. Are you saying there are historical circumstances that caused the US’s inability to abolish slavery for so long? Of course there are. And I think the Senate is one of them.
Regarding your “knife” example – doesn’t make sense to me. The filibuster wasn’t done by senators afraid of southern states: it was done senators from southern states. Were their own states threatening them?
I was promised lasagna.
I don’t know that I’d actually favor abolishing the Senate unless that were the only other option other than keeping it in its existing form. If the filibuster were done away with and the big states got some greater level of representation, I could probably live with it.
On the other hand, if I were designing the legislative branch from scratch, I’d probably make it unicameral and to the extent that politics required small-state overrepresentation, just accomplish it by tweaking the apportionment in the one chamber. And naturally I’d have multi-member districts with representatives elected by Single Transferable Vote.
A simpler explanation, then.
Though it may be nice to assume so, when a law is passed, the intended result does not always take place. Prohibition is your textbook example. In that case the law was misguided and the major problem was enforcement.
The same applies here: well, not the misguided part but rather the enforcement part. We’ve acknowledged that the Senate was not the root cause of the damage of Jim Crow. For getting that out into the open, I got a scathing response from both you and taliesin, but it is a key distinction, because prior to that distinction being made, the assumption both of you were making was that a law passed by the House and Senate would have made that damage cease to exist.
That’s an assumption of automatic adherence to the law, which, as noted above, is not a prudent assumption to make. The enforcement of this particular law would be especially gnarly. For this period of time, the Civil War was not that long ago, and therefore neither was the northern occupation of the South during the Reconstruction. I referenced the integration of the high school in Little Rock during the Civil Rights Era half of a century later (though I may not have been clear), in which federal troops were needed to keep the peace. Imagine enforcing any sort of anti-Jim Crow law, facing similar opposition, but without the advanced travel capability of the 50s and 60s. Those soldiers would have to take up residence in the South, and even then, they would not have nearly enough manpower to enforce the law even as much as half of “full enforcement”.
The dangers of installing what is perceived to be a foreign armed force in a territory are great. Imagine a fractured United States during WWII (a worst-case scenario, obviously, but plausible). Not a happy thought.
Concluding, I’ll reiterate what I said earlier: none of these concerns of law enforcement make the delay of those laws for 40 years any less of a mistake. I support the law, and wish that it had passed. But these concerns do invalidate the idea that the passage of the law would mitigate the damage to such a level that its not having passed places a large proportion of the responsibility for the damage that did take place on the Senate.
(my knife example doesn’t make much sense to me either; I tried to explain the faulty assumptions behind the baby carriage examples from you and taliesin by providing my own, and failed miserably. I would have been better served by simply giving this response here at the time)
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
You’ve still yet to have made your point about how the Senate helps. You still haven’t shown a single example of it blocking a tyrannical law.
You make an interesting case regarding the Senate’s role in Jim Crow, but you still concede that it caused some damage, and you agree that at it’s unjustified in today’s America – that it gives citizens in small states significantly more power than they deserve. For the Senate to still be a worthy institution in spite of this, it would have to have a pretty huge positive effect on America, and you have not shown any examples of that effect.
I was promised lasagna.
OK. Here’s an example.
In 1841, the threat of a filibuster stopped the renewal of the Second National Bank of the US, an institution that Jackson was famous for opposing. The Second National Bank was a institution damaging to US economic health through the centralization of the power over the money supply into one body. A private corporation was given special government privileges and fostered a corrupt relationship between individuals in finance and representatives in the House and Senate.
This is one I was able to find using wikipedia. If either of you know any good sources where I can find lists of bills filibustered or ultimately stopped by the threat of filibuster, then I would be glad to check them out and we would be able to see any general trends.
Right now, we have one good example of a case in which the Senate prevented the Congress from preventing damage, and one example (pending your approval) of a case in which the Senate prevented the Congress from doing damage.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
I don’t know much about the Second National Bank in particular or about that era of American history in general (I suspect I am not alone in having something of a gap in my knowledge between the War of 1812 and the Civil War.) But from what I can ascertain, the Second National Bank died after attempts to re-charter it were vetoed by Presidents Jackson and Tyler. I don’t see any reference to a filibuster here or here, for example.
It seems that the 1841 filibuster threat may have caused some delay, but the bill didn’t have a majority anyway. Reluctant Whigs forced Clay to compromise on some points, at which time it passed:
On July 27, Clay presented an amendment on the floor that was designed to win over two of the four dissident Whigs; Clay admitted that "the bill, in its present shape, could not pass the Senate, and were the vote taken, it would probably stand 25 for the bill and 26 against it" (Congressional Globe, July 27, 1841, p. 254). The amendment passed 25-24, and the bill then was engrossed by the same margin and passed 26-23. Thus, far from minority obstruction blocking a bill with majority support, Clay’s rules change threat preceded his construction of a majority in support of the bill, and as soon as Clay found a formula for gaining that majority, the bill was approved.I really don’t know if the Second National Bank was a good or a bad thing (seems bad, but Jackson’s opposition gives me pause), but in any case it was killed by the veto, not the filibuster.
but in any case it was killed by the veto, not the filibuster.
Not so sure about that one. Here’s where I get my info:
Wikipedia:Filibuster
In 1841, a defining moment came during debate on a bill to charter the Second Bank of the United States. Senator Henry Clay tried to end debate via majority vote. Senator William R. King threatened a filibuster, saying that Clay “may make his arrangements at his boarding house for the winter”. Other Senators backed King, and Clay backed down.
Now, I may eventually have to break out my APUSH notes from last year for this topic, but if memory serves me right, in 1841, there was an anti-Jackson president in office who would not have vetoed the bank charter, but he died quickly, leading to Tyler, the “Democrat in Whig’s clothing”.
The threat of a filibuster is as much a function of that institution than its actually being carried out. That it was a threat probably explains why it was not mentioned in either of the websites.
The result of the filibuster in preventing Clay from hurrying the bill up was to stop him from getting it through before Harrison died. (this last sentence is speculation fyi; the source wiki links to doesn’t give exact dates, but if we find them, perhaps this guess can be confirmed)
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Nope
If you read the link I gave you, King made his threat about the boarding house on July 12. Harrison, who survived only 32 days in office, was well dead by then. The bill ended up passing either on or shortly after July 27, but Tyler, contra Clay’s hopes, vetoed it.
The Democrats did threaten to filibuster, but they neither did, nor did they stop the bill.
you agree that at it’s unjustified in today’s America – that it gives citizens in small states significantly more power than they deserve.
Please clear this up for me. I don’t remember agreeing to a similar point to this. I don’t even remember reading a thorough argument in favor of this notion in this thread. Perhaps I missed it.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
We don’t really need to speculate so much on what would have happened if the law had passed, because a similar law did pass 40 years later. There was violent resistance. I don’t see any reason to think that the reaction to the enforcement of the 1922 anti-lynching law would have been worse.
But again, this is just one area where the presence of the Senate made things worse; there’s also farm subsidies, Western water policy, the Bridge to Nowhere, etc. You’ve not explained how the Senate makes things better.
Oh, and when I was talking about slave-freeing countries I had Europe in mind.
Sorry if I was unclear about that. I was thinking Britain, France, etc.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
But don’t all the new countries on that list sort of undermine the point that it was because the US was not “old and structurally unified” that it failed to abolish slavery when others were doing so?
Not particularly. The phrase “old and structurally unified” referred to European nations. Now, turning to look at these North American nations, other factors come into play.
For comparisons of structural unification, a comparison of general size and population dispersal is helpful. Haiti, Ecuador, Colombia, Panama, Jamaica, and Uruguay were smaller than some American states at the time.
A fundamental difference between America and most of these states is time of rebellion and ultimate political freedom. When America broke off from England, essentially one nation had outlawed slavery: England herself. But English colonists had already established a slave-dependent economy in the American south, and that was a feature that would not go away quickly.
Most of these other countries abolished slavery as a part of their own founding, after England, France (temporarily), Prussia, Germany, and Spain had all abolished slavery, including within most of their colonies, and as such, they were following the precedent of their parent countries.
Haiti, of course, retains the awesomeness that a nation founded on a successful slave revolt deserves.
It would be good to note that these states, similar in size and population to most of the countries that you mentioned, abolished slavery long before any of those countries did so:
Vermont
Pennsylvania
Massachusetts
Connecticut
Rhode Island
New York
Oh, and Canada, while it may have expansive borders, does not have a similarly expansive population distribution. To make a rough guess, it was probably comparable to New England as a territory at the time.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
A fundamental difference between America and most of these states is time of rebellion and ultimate political freedom. When America broke off from England, essentially one nation had outlawed slavery: England herself.
I don’t think this is accurate. Sweden (+Finland), Iceland and Portugal had abolished slavery by the time. The Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth abolished slavery but kept serfdom, so I don’t know if that that counts (I’m not sure what’s the difference except that they were allowed to own land). Russia did the same, but I they just changed the name.
I was promised lasagna.
Am I being misled by wikipedia?
You look to be right concerning Portugal. I don’t see Iceland in wikipedia:Abolitionism. In the same wikipedia page Sweden abolished “thralldom” very early, but explicit abolition of slavery itself didn’t occur until 1847. I think you’re right about serfdom being a poor substitute for slavery.
So that eliminates all of the nations except for Portugal, and the qualifier “essentially” can account for an unmentioned alternate.
I think that means that it is reasonably accurate, unless there is some information I do not have.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
These are the countries in the Americas who abolished slavery before 1863:
Haiti
Argentina
Chile
Mexico
Bolivia
Ecuador
Colombia (one year after the US passed the Fugitive Slave Law)
Venezuela
Panama
Jamaica
Uruguay
Peru
Plus Canada, which abolished it before it officially became a country.
I was promised lasagna.
You may want to consider that right/left is a very limited way to view political history, more suited to partisan bickering than actual understanding.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 24, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
Before the 1910s, liberal meant what conservative means now and conservative meant what Progressive means now.
Judicial activism vs. judicial restraint has been typically characterized as a left v. right issue, but it can go both ways in cases.
And then in social issues you have your changing racial allegiances and Fundamentalists.
US History is fun!
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Before the 1910s, liberal meant what conservative means now and conservative meant what Progressive means now.
I’m aware of the shifting meanings attached to these words over time and I don’t think the correlation is exact… I think it’s more complicated than that.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 24, 2010 6:45 PM PST up reply actions
Anarchy!
I think no Senate would make it so that there would be many more laws, and many of them unnecessary and overly restrictive.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
And if there are more people in urban population centers, then yes, they should have more power than people in rural areas. Just like white people have more power than black people. Just like Christians have more power than Jews. Just like people over 25 have more power than people under 25.
I could not disagree with you more. You’re arguing for tyranny of the majority.
JUST A CITY BOY
by shanghaijim on Jan 23, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
I’m going to line up here.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
/shuffles out of the line
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions
No I’m not. I’m arguing for majority rule.
Majority rule, the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group.
Tyranny of the majority: A situation in which a government or other authority democratically supported by a majority of its subjects makes policies or takes actions benefiting that majority, without regard for the rights or welfare of the rest of its subjects.
Majority rule is the most basic feature of a democracy (or democratic republic). Without it there is no democracy. Two voters have more power than one, and three senators have more power than two, and 4 judges have more power than three. That doesn’t mean that the majority’s power shouldn’t be limited – that would lead to tyranny of the majority, a situation in which majority rule is used to oppress the minority. But I don’t see where I was arguing for that in my comment.
Obviously there’s a connection between the two, because you can’t have tyranny of the majority without majority rule. But the two terms are most definitely not the same.
Anyway, do you disagree that the majority should have more power than the minority? Because that’s all I was arguing for.
I was promised lasagna.
BTW I linked to two different dictionaries
Because I couldn’t find one that had both.
I was promised lasagna.
I would say the most basic feature of a democratic republic I’d want to be involved with is the enumeration of inalienable rights, regardless of the wishes of the majority,.. personal opinion I suppose.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions
A place where the rights of everyone are never harmed is a lovely place to live in. But if it has no majority rule, it’s not a democracy. Maybe it’s an autocracy, or an oligarchy, or anarchy, and a successful one at that, and maybe it’s the best place to live in in the world – but that doesn’t make it a democracy. “Democracy” is not synonymous with “good”.
A tyranny of the majority isn’t a democracy either, mind you, but I still don’t see where I argued in favor of it.
I was promised lasagna.
At the time of the Constitutional Congress, the largest state by population, Virginia, had a population approximately 12 times larger than the smallest, Delaware. Currently the largest state, California, has a population more than sixty times larger than the smallest state, Wyoming. Things have gotten way, way out of whack.
Also, point of order, direct democracy is not a good thing, I agree, but that refers to things like referenda, not simply allocating representatives according to population.
Thank the AMA. This article, about the health-care debate in the 1940s, is very interesting, if nothing else because it underscores the extent to which political debates repeat themselves.
Do NOT want government in charge and do NOT want employer in the loop unless the job has health concers ie miners, truck drivers, law enforcement, military.
If I am an car salesman then why should the dealership pay for my health insurance unless my health issue is job related? Let me pay for my own insurance. The government can regulate the industry.
Now if the government (or really us picking up the tab) wants to have health clinics and catastrophic health insurance they lets see where we can find agreement.
Off-Season fail
Great to now be a regular reader and now a contributor to the pessimism! So far the only positive I can say about the off-season is it could have been worse (i.e. Royals, Kansas City). Freddy Sanchez news is just piling on at this point IMO. The medical staff’s incompetence boggles my mind on a whole new level this time.
As far as Bengie being back, I hated the re-signing, but have cooled off a smidge. I don’t mind that the Giants will be delaying the arb clock on Posey, because it does sound as if he has some refining to do on his receiving skills (this not of Giants FO propaganda, but BA podcast I believe if memory serves…). That said, why not sign Gregg Zaun? He would have cost significantly less, and has already handed the reins off to one younger catching stud/prospect (Wieters, Matt) before getting dealt to TB.
I’ll just say I agree with the bitter feeling some have about non-tendering Garko and then signing Huff and leave it at that.
DeRosa is a meh signing for me. The versatility of only somewhat crappy defense at the corner positions and 2B give him some value, and he doesn’t seem to be overpaid. I can live with that.
The guys I’m upset about missing out on are both in Boston. Adrian Beltre was the dude I wanted the most this off-season. Right-handed power plays fine in AT&T, and his glove is insane. His offensive numbers were a product of the life sucking right-handed hitters hell that is SAFECO. The other guy I liked was Mike Cameron, but never had any delusions of him being a Giant.
I for one am not upset about not signing Nick Johnson. I don’t trust him to stay healthy, and would have rather seen Beltre in and Ku Fu Panda shifted to 1B.
A couple things I’m optimistic about (man I hate killing the pessimism and disgust… but I shall): I read that the Giants watched Sheets work-out, and can now have pipe dreams of them signing him to an incentive laden 1 year deal. Tony Pena Jr. is a non-roster invitee (wooooo hooooo). John Bowker may have a shot to get regular AB’s after demolishing Triple-A last year (gotta help having Meulens on the parent club this year).
I can see it now: Tony Pena Jr. enters the game in game 7 of the 2010 WS in the 8th inning, protecting a 1 run lead. Pena Jr. re-enters the game in the 9th inning as a defense replacement while WIlson gets the ball to save the game! Woooo hoooo… back to the fridge for another frosty beverage.
Flaw detected
Your fantasy requires the NL winning the All-Star game, because otherwise Bochy would end up forfeiting his DH. And he’d never make that mistake.
Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)
There's no guarantee they would've gotten Zaun if they pursued him
See: Johnson, Nick; LaRoche, Adam
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
I still think we would have signed Johnson if we had offered a second year. Also, Zaun isn’t that rich. I have a hard time seeing a guy who signed for $1.9M turning down $3.5M because he doesn’t like San Francisco.
I was promised lasagna.
Most of these stories come out after the fact. Players will say almost anything except “I wanted more money”. If the Giants still had a 2 year contract on the table to LaRoche, he would have taken it. If they had offered Nick Johnson a two year deal, he would have dealt with our Triples Alley. No one doesn’t want to play for the SF Giants. They want to play for money, no matter who gives it to them.
There are some exceptions, but in (/digs into jcb9’s ass) 90% of the cases they follow the dollar bill.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
No flaw...
clearly the NL is due to win (sarcasm doesn’t translate well to text). Nice catch.
+reply
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 22, 2010 8:27 AM PST up reply actions
OT
Found out about it after the fact but our own Dave Flemming went national TV on Thursday night doing San Diego at St. Mary’s basketball for ESPN U.
"meh"
He’s gone Hollywood. We have lost him forever.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
‘The Flame’ will burn in our hearts forever though.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 22, 2010 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
Comment about Bengie
Molina returning to Giants, after all: Surprise deal indicates Posey likely to start ‘10 at Triple-A
After spending most of the previous two seasons batting fourth — a role for which even he admitted he was miscast — Molina is now likely to bat fifth or sixth, which should increase his comfort level and could deepen the Giants’ lineup.
OWNED
"I never watched baseball on TV. It's slow and boring. I'm not a fan. Never was." - Jeff Kent
A comment to Bengie signing on MLB.com
anyone who doesn’t think that the molina signing is a season saver is either a total pessimist or doesn’t know jack about baseball.
LOL GRITTING OUT THE GAME
"I never watched baseball on TV. It's slow and boring. I'm not a fan. Never was." - Jeff Kent
grasping for straws...
in Meulens I trust
84 games
"Hey old-timer, where am I ?"
"You can't get there from here."
Season saver!
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Jan 22, 2010 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
Aw, hokysmokesbbqwtf! I miss him. I kinda like like him.
JUST A CITY BOY
by shanghaijim on Jan 22, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
I am still betting that he is in the cleanup spot for at least half of this season. I am setting the over/under at 75 games and I am taking the over.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 22, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
Huff will probably slump at some point and Bengie will be hitting 4th the next game.
;-(
#1 FanShot Champion
heh
Slump in what context? You mean Huff is going to be even worse than his 2009 season?
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 22, 2010 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
HE HAS +4 WIN PLAYER UPSIDE!
Huff will be awful and Bengie will hit 4th. I haz a sad.
#1 FanShot Champion
Except, Bengie was awful last year and he remained the 4 hole. Remember, Bochy likes to stick with the guys that got him there. (“there” = worst offense in baseball)
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Yeah, but Bengie-y got him there before Aubrey-y did.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
He’ll go 0-4 on opening day, and be immediately replaced by Bengie the next game
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 22, 2010 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
If Bengie Molina wasn’t comfortable batting cleanup, then precedent tells me that he should have been benched until he could man up without regard for anything else. I’m pretty sure that’s what we do with players who aren’t comfortable with their spot in the lineup.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 22, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
IT STILL SHOULD NOT BE 5TH OR 6TH.
THIS GODDAMN FO!
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
I actually think he should bat 6th. If he bats 7th or 8th and gets on base (it really does happen sometimes), it’s almost impossible for the pitcher to bunt him over. Even on an AL team I probably wouldn’t bat him lower than 7th because you don’t want him on base in front of your top-of-the-order guys.
spring training
Got tickets to March 8th and 9th games, Giants v. Dodgers and Giants v. White Sox. First spring training for me. Looking forward to it. Any suggestions on where to eat/drink?
F. the Lewis.
The Blue Oyster. There’s gonna be a huge party there.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
MAHONEY!
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 22, 2010 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
Do you like beer? Papago brewing company is just down scottsdale drive. Great beer bar.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
by ringleader3 on Jan 22, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
Do you like beer?
Is Barry Zito overpaid?
Is Bengie Molina fat?
Is Tim Lincecum the best pitcher in baseball?
Does Bruce Bochy shop at the Rochester Big and Tall for all of his head gear?
Yes, I like beer.
F. the Lewis.
by calpolynate on Jan 22, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
Ok, then DEFINITELY hit up papago. They are awesome people, and great beer. It’s not quite the meathead vibe the rest of scottsdale puts out in the spring.
Grimaldi’s Pizza on 1st is great too.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
Any recs for Tempe? We’re heading there for the Giants-Angels game.
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
There is a great liquor store and bar called Taste of Tops… other than that, im not sure.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
Thanks, it’s a step up from the liquor stores in my neighborhood. But dang, no happy hour on Saturdays!
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
Do any places have saturday happy hours?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
Well, it’s not common practice but absolutely!
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
$$ off the regularly inflated prices………………………
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 22, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
Sports Illustrated knows nothing about the Giants.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 22, 2010 1:40 PM PST reply actions
If they didn’t care, they wouldn’t write articles about the Giants.
My advice to them is: If you are going to write an article about the Giants, you should at least get the name of the managing general partner correct.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 22, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
And to be honest, I am amazed he didn’t spell Peter’s last name as McGowan.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 22, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
Research is hard.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT GUYS WITH BOW TIES!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 22, 2010 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
Do you mean the part where they say Sabean is popular?
I don’t think they’re saying that he’s good or anything, I think it’s a lead-in to the real subject matter, which has to do with how Lincecum’s case will affect future arbitration cases and free agent signings.
Popular as in, give a phone call, ask how the process is going (which I think is what it says in there), not popular as in wow he’s doing a good job right now.
And the last bit, about service time, seems correct. Certainly juxtaposing a description of Bengie as “vaguely adequate” with that of Posey as “top 10 prospect” doesn’t make Bengie look like a world beater.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
LOLeones de Caracas
Look who’s batting 3rd in front of Jesus Guzman. Our old friend, Jose Castillo.
Oh, and I didn’t know Candy Maldanado is a catcher? lol
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
Jesus hasn't been saved
Giants will designate INF Jesus Guzman to make room for Bengie Molina on the 40-man roster.
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
I forgot he was even on the 40-man roster.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Poor Goofus
He will be devastated.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 22, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
Bengie killed Jesus!
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 22, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
Johnson, Bocock, Merkin, Jesus…which of these things is not like the others?
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
Johnson!
’Cause he was good at one time.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Baggs has some good stuff here
Uribe to start at 2nd, but Sanchez “on a mission” to start opening day
Burriss will be ready for spring training
This is my favorite part
–Bochy said anyone could hit second in the order if Sanchez isn’t ready to start the season. "Really, the only one I’d rule out is Bengie," he said. Molina is expected to bat sixth.
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
During this mission he will push himself too hard and his shoulder will fall off, we lose him for the season.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
Wow, here is my favorite part:
–Sabean and Groeschner defended the due diligence of the medical department,
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
Also, SS Edgar Renteria (elbow surgery) is playing catch from 90 feet three times a week in Miami, in addition to swinging a bat. He told Groeschner he’s excited about where he’s at.
Miami, that is.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
Sabean wouldn’t rule out Posey beginning the season as the backup catcher, but it’s obvious that everyone in the organization wants him to catch more games in the minor leagues. Plus, with Steve Decker now the manager at Triple-A Fresno, Posey should benefit from playing there every day.
Oh lord.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
Due diligence of the medical departmenet?
At the end of the day, did they kick the tires on Freddy’s shoulder?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
I wonder if all this kvetching about congress is due to one party’s inability to get shit done while owning the executive and legislative branches of our government. Weaksauce.
Also, I think it would be a good idea to let the minority party exercise their right to filibuster and then point out to the press how silly the whole process is. Give em enough rope…
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 24, 2010 3:36 PM PST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Podcast: Dirk Hayhurst talks about Italy, the reality of the big leagues and his new book
- Dennis ‘Oil Can’ Boyd claims he used cocaine before a majority of his games
- Does Billy Beane’s contract extension signal an optimistic dawn for Oakland fans?
- Ask Alex: Will Alex Avila be an All-Star again?
- Create-a-Caption: Matt Cain’s great pair of golf pants
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
