The tone of the offseason (and every season, really)
by Grant on Jan 21, 2010 3:14 PM PST
392 comments
If you haven’t figured out, the tone of this site can careen out of control, bust past the guardrails, and flip upside down into a ravine of negativity. It’s not a new thing, but it isn’t what everyone would prefer. It’s understandable to wonder why a lot of Giants fans are so negative following a winning season. Heck, they did better than a lot of us expected them to do. Isn’t that worth something?
Yes. Wait, no. I’m not sure. All I know is that Giants are so damned close to having a fantastic team. Not in terms of personnel – they aren’t one or two players away from that fantastic team – but in terms of philosophy. Last year, they had the best pitching staff of any Giants team in my lifetime. They also had one of the worst lineups I’ve ever seen. The Giants’ front office can draft and develop pitching like few other organizations. Brian Sabean is adept at finding relief bargains in discount bins, as well as in his own minor league system.
The team just has no concept of what makes a good offense. This offseason, they were entrusted with one job: try to make an awful offense better. Every move they’ve made since then is a lateral move, at best. Most of us didn’t expect it to be different, but that infected piece of hope that’s lodged in the dark recesses of our brain made some a little irrational.
I’m terrified that the Giants are going to let this window of brilliant pitching close. I’m terrified that by the time the offense approaches the league average, key members of the staff will be gone, hurt, or ineffective. So when the Giants acquire a player or five who are on the wrong side of 30, and whose on-base percentage is either not much of a help (Aubrey Huff) or is a complete catastrophe (Bengie Molina), that terror manifests itself in criticism. The criticism usually is done with a sneering tone. The sneering tone becomes oppressive. I get that, and it isn’t for everyone.
There’s no reason for me to put this as a disclaimer to every post:
The Giants’ front office can draft and develop pitching like few other organizations. Brian Sabean is adept at finding relief bargains in discount bins, as well as in his own minor league system.
…but it’s there in spirit. That’s why it’s so frustrating. I didn’t want to cheapen the frustration with anything the Analogotron 3500 spit out, but, who am I kidding? I love that little thing.
The Giants are like a fantastic WWII movie script with Martin Scorsese set to direct, financing in place, and locations all scouted out. The offense is like the casting director coming back and saying, "Have you thought about Pauly Shore for the role of Sarge?" When you say, no, that’s not going to work, they shuffle off and return in six months to ask, "Okay, what about Corey Feldman?" When that suggestion is politely rebuffed, they come back in six months to ask, "Say, have you thought about Alex Guinness?" You point out that Sir Alec is in a better place now, and this continues on for another couple of years.
Meanwhile, Scorsese isn’t sure if he wants to commit anymore , the producers are pulling out, and everything is crumbling around you. The next time the casting director shows up to suggest Soliel Moon Frye, you’re a little frazzled. You’re terrified that the opportunity is passing you by. And you lash out.
I hope I’m wrong. I hope Aubrey Huff is the Huff of 2008. I hope Mark DeRosa rebounds to be the DeRosa of 2008. I hope Edgar Renteria repeats his season of 2007. I hope Aaron Rowand relives his last year as a Phillie. I hope Bengie Molina keeps the pitching staff happy, I hope he maintains his power, and I hope he’s able to turn the spot over to Buster Posey in a bloodless coup.
I hope I look like a pessimistic goofball at this time next year. I hope my thousands and thousands of words of wrong are mocked, belittled, and laughed at. I hope they carry an effigy of me down Market Street during the championship just so people can throw tomatoes at it.
Until that day, I’m a gonna complain. I appreciate the things the organization does well; I’ll focus on the things that are preventing the team from winning their first championship since they moved from New York.
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Also the wrong offseason to stop drinking.
Randy Hahn: "I’ve been referred to as a playa…"
by 49er16 on Jan 21, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Huff!
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 21, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
Brad Pitt as Sabean!
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
Channing Tatum as Matt Cain!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
John Goodman as Molina!
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
And Colin Farrell as Brain Wilson!
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Giants Movie: all-worst cast
CF – Aaron Rowand – Kevin Costner
2B – Freddy Sanchez – Freddie Prinze Jr.
3B – Pablo Sandoval – Frank Caliente
1B – Aubrey Huff – Jeff Bridges
LF – Mark DeRosa – Paul Rudd
RF – Nate Schierholtz – John Travolta
C – Benji Molina – Frank Caliente
SS – Edgar Renteria – Omar Epps
Lincecum – Michael Cera
Zito – Matthew McConne???y
Cain – David Morse (that second in command guy from The Rock)
Sanchez – John Leguizamo
Bumgarner – Eric Bana
Wilson – Yeah, Farrell would be perfectly horrible
Uribe to Thompson to Clark: Don't tinker ever with chance
My question:
What the hell is Freddie Prinze Jr doing on 24?
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
No joke
I can’t help but shake my head every time I saw him trying to “act”. I just can’t take him seriously in the least bit. One of the worst casting decisions of all time.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jan 21, 2010 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
2nd worst casting decision:
chick (I use that term loosely) from Battlestar Galactica.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jan 21, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
She’s quite manly, I won’t apologize for saying that.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jan 21, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
and why was she wearing a cocktail dress at work?
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 21, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions
No, she's awesome
And hot. But she can’t play wussy girl with an abusive ex boyfriend. She has to kick his ass. She’s Kara Thrace; she needs to kill someone.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Jan 21, 2010 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
or since they cast Janeane Garofalo as herself last season.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 21, 2010 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
kicking ass and taking names?
or more like “almost getting blown up saving the guy from Slumdog Millionaire”
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
OMG SPOILURZ
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I don't actually watch that show
my roommate was watching it and I caught a few minutes. Sorry if I ruined someone’s DVR experience.
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
I don’t watch it either, so it doesn’t bother me.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
well you're the only one that matters
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
Eh, I watch it, but I wouldn’t care anyway.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
only 20 more hours to go.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 21, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions
He is the first Emo CTU agent
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
You have to have emotion for that to be true.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
THIS
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 21, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
But Bridge and Rudd are awesome.
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
nicholas cage belongs somewhere on this cast if you are looking for terrible
Baltimore: A horseshit city
Sometimes I just want to be a Pirates fan. No pesky expectations
by BringBackBenitoSantiago on Jan 21, 2010 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
He could dress in black-face all Robert Downey Junior-style and play Shawon Dunston.
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
hahahaha i love it
Baltimore: A horseshit city
Sometimes I just want to be a Pirates fan. No pesky expectations
by BringBackBenitoSantiago on Jan 21, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
wait, did they bring back Dunston? I mean I wouldn’t put it past Sabes…I know they didn’t really….did they? ;-)
He still works for the Giants. he the swing-at-everything coach or something.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 24, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
Nicholas Cage is all of them.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Nic Cage, as he looked in Con Air, as Randy Johnson.
Yes, really, I have not updated my blog in a long long time: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Jan 21, 2010 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
wow Eric Bana as Bumgarner, that’s awesome!
Hey Fred Lewis, remember Mother's Day?
by anotherbadexcuseguitar on Jan 21, 2010 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
Bana is freaking badass
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
They’ve done a crappy job of improving the offense this off season, but realistically, what could they have really done? Were there really names out there that would have definitely solved the Giants’ problems? Everyone on the market had warts, which is why they were out there in the first place.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Jan 21, 2010 3:24 PM PST via mobile reply actions
they could have not spent all that money on marginal upgrades
and been able to properly evaluate the young talent they do have
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
I can’t understand either of these points.
First of all, people would be furious if the payroll sat at 70 million when OMG WHY ARE THE GIANTS NOT SPENDING AS MUCH THIS YEAR.
and 2
Bowker and Nate will be battling for a job. I don’t think there ever was a realistic possibility of a Bowker-Rowand-Nate OF. What other young talent do they need to evaluate again? Frandsen? Lewis who is 28? Maybe Posey? Who are you really upset about who isn’t getting properly evaluated
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
Sorry if I’m way off on Lewis’ age. I didn’t stop to look it up as I was posting that
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
Conversely, are you fine with the fact that the Giants made moves because they had to, regardless of what players they signed? You are okay with wishcasting? (Maybe this old guy will revert to a younger performance?)
I’m fine with taking a chance on guys who have at least done it before and might prove to have more upside than say Velez or Ishikawa who we’ve appeared to see their ceilings of
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
who we’ve appeared to see their ceilings of
Don’t leave us in suspense, Heimy!
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 21, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t think we’ve seen Ishikawa’s ceiling. Even if we have, though, he was quite a bit better than Huff in 2009 and is more likely to improve.
We took a chance on the wrong guys.
“I’m fine with taking a chance on guys who have at least done it before and might prove to have more upside…”
I totally agree with this in theory. But look who we signed. Huff, DeRosa, Sanchez, Uribe, and Molina. There is NOT a lot of facking upside in that group. I don’t mind spending risky money on older players, necessarily. But we didn’t get upside. Upside is Delgado and Glaus. Two guys who, if they are healthy, are damn good bets to hit 30 homers and get on base at a pretty good clip.
At the end of the day, I can think of a ton of players who fit in our budget that I’d rather have us spend $22ish mil this offseason:
Holliday, Orlando Hudson, Mike Cameron, Troy Glaus, Carlos Delgado…. I could go on if I cared to look up a FA list but I’m lazy.
I wouldn’t be furious if they sat on their money, as compared to wasting it.
I’d prefer they signed good players, though.
FU, FO
by oldjacket on Jan 21, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
if the Giants honestly can’t hope to attract anything more than the mid-tier FA every year for whatever reason, then they need to do a much better job of bringing up and actually playing hitting talent.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Of course, we just might be a few years away from that though still, so we sign Huff to a 1 year deal, DeRosa to a 2 year deal.
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
But the Giants haven’t brought up and played hitting talent for the past six years or so (with the exceptions) – why should I believe they’re going to start now?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Cause none of them have been THAT good? We talked about this in the other thread…Neal, Crawford, those guys
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
What makes those guys better than what’s come before? I mean, most prospecting organizations don’t rate Crawford nearly as highly as we do.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Look, while I what I say on this site is what I believe, I’m also trying to play devil’s advocate by bringing up the other side to some of the issues here
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
I understand that and I do appreciate it. As I’ve said before, though, I’m not going to give the Giants credit for things that haven’t happened yet. I’ll believe that they’ll give this wave of hitting prospects a fair shot when I see it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
This is something I am scared of. It seems like when a young Giant struggles a little (i.e. Fred Lewis, Todd Linden struggle, not E. Burriss struggle) they don’t give him a shot.
/auto-defenestrates
something something jhiat00 will swindle
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 21, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Steve Hosey!
/auto-defenestrates
something something jhiat00 will swindle
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 21, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
the hitting talent is getting here, in a year or two, but somehow they have to be done with Rowand and Renteria’s contracts before they actually get good players…I hope Freddy Sanchez comes back healthy and can be the 2B for more than 2 yrs. he is not old. After that, I have a sneaking suspicions that we will see Panda at 1B eventually unless Villalone gets through his troubles and is able to come back…which is why the Gmen are so set on Panda at 3B. The mgt still expects Villalone to return. They have major talent at SS, as well as other outfielders, but none are ready to move past Fresno this year….we shall see…soon, and at least the regime believes in their youngsters but wants to bring them along slowly enough to help them keep their confidence which has ruined many young players.
I think it would be more accurate to say that we would prefer they signed no players if they can’t sign good ones.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
heimy, I gotta ask at this point, did you read any of the rosterbations that went on around here as soon as the offseason started?
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
They did try to sign better players
They just failed at that.
After that, yeah, I do wish they sat on their money instead of hiring marginal upgrades.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
Exactly
Do we really want them to be in full rebuilding mode now? W/ all this pitching? no.
That should have come in 2007 (but didn’t) and should have come in 2008 (but didn’t) and couldn’t come last year b/c we were actually in contention…
but now. . . now it really is too late for that.
PLUS, the real farm system gems (other than buster) really aren’t going to be ready until 2011 2012 (Kisckjinkieck, Neal, pitt, etc.) Luckily, one thing they did well is not sign any long term deals this off season.
So I raise a glass and an 8-oz squeezer of glue to that.
Whoever invented rope was a real a-hole!
by Cannonballden on Jan 22, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
In a word- YES!!!
Look this team is still a 500 team. Quibble either way by 2 games if you want. The only way this team gets the neeed 6-10 games is playing guys under 30 and a couple of them break out. Other wise all your doing is playing to not lose 90 games and pissing away this elite pitching for a 3 or 4th place finish.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at - 25%
No- is the word of the Sheepeople
Last I look even you figure this is an 84 win team. The only way thsi team gets in is every one else in the divsion falls apart or they play position players under 31 and get lucky enough with 2-4 or them. Right now there is barely 2 position players under 31 scheduled to be in the top 9-10 position players to be given play time.
Go get me a list of times with multiple Champ Summers seasons on the same squad and we can talk but I can’t remeber any andc so your stance just does not pass the common sence threshold.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at - 25%
For thoses that never heard of Summers...
Summers was 33 when we was traded to the Tigers and started wearing out the Right Field porch in 1983. He suddenly hit 20 homers in 290 P.A.’s have hit 8 homers his carrer tell then.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at - 25%
This team is at least a third of a run better than last year’s…if the pitchers repeat their performances, we win 92-94 games. I believe that Cain and Lincicum won’t show signs of fatigue toward the end of the season (as they appeared to a little this year) Sanchez will continue his improvement, Zito will be reproduce his second half throughout the season and not be as tough a luck pitcher (worst RPG in baseball by 1/3 run per game-a whopping margin) and the question mark is 5th starter.
If I am right, the NLW is a breeze. If not, villify me after the season.
One disclaimer, though….the pitching staff and Panda have to stay healthy.
This team, just playing the under 30 crowd is probably a 1/3 of a run better than 2009 so just what diod $20M buy us?
The flip side if Bochey divies up teh play time as I expect we have gotten a lot slower and less likely to take the extra 90 feet. I would be fine wil that if the 2010 squad was much more likely to create outs at a slower pace or the SLG was goign well up but I can’t honestly say I expect either to be true.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at - 25%
Yeah, I need to get to that post too. I agree with most of that, and they did attempt to get Nick Johnson.
Grant, just out of curiosity, what percentage of comments do you read on the site? Or at least on your front page posts?
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
It’s hard to say. Most of them on the first day, at least the on-topic ones. After that, it’s hit or miss. This place is nuts.
There’s your t-shirt.
/auto-defenestrates
something something jhiat00 will swindle
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 21, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
TWSS
At least three out of four of those sentences. It’s gold, Grant, gold!
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jan 21, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
funny
that’s how I read Grant’s posts too. I just skim through so I can understand the movie references and GIS results in the thread.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:32 AM PST up reply actions
There is a reason I got completly smashed at every Giants game I went to last year!
What's the matter with Sabean?!?!? He's a bum!
I agree. I do not know how to solve the problem of players not wanting to play for the San Francisco Giants.
by Every6thDay on Jan 21, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Look at the reasons why this is happening and address them. If hitters think that it’s a pitcher’s park, it’s possible to show them statistics demonstrating that this is not the case. And so on.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
If its really that easy and Sabean really wanted to sign someone, you really don’t think he’d do it?
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
Well, I don’t think he understands that AT&T isn’t a pitcher’s park anymore.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
I don’t think players understand that either though.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Agreed. When the entire baseball universe says, “AT&T is death to left-handed hitters,” it’s a safe bet that most players believe that too, regardless of the statistics.
by FireBrianSabean on Jan 21, 2010 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
Well, it might help if the GM of the San Francisco Giants didn’t go around repeating it as well. He could at least push back, point to park factors etc. It’s not like he has that much trouble getting his message out in the media.
also
someone else pointed out that while the players may not understand Park Factors, agents almost certainly do.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
So say Nick Johnson’s agent understands park factors and knows he can get more money from the Giants than the Yankees.
Isn’t this the job of the agent to convince Johnson to get more money?
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
yes
but in SOME (very limited, like Johnson) cases, the player will take a better situation (DHing for the WS champs vs. 1Bing for a team that finished 3rd in its devision) over more money. The problem is that Sabean acts like this is an issue with EVERY FA, even ones he doesn’t pursue at all, like Holliday.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
We don’t actually know that the Giants offered Johnson more money. The rumor was $5.5M vs. the $5M he got from the Yanks, but his deal with NYY includes some sort of option with whose buyout terms I’m not familiar. Between that and the fact we don’t know with any certainty what the Giants actually offered, we can’t say that Johnson left money on the table that his agent should have convinced him to take.
well there's this too.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
and again
even if the Giants DID offer more money, we’re talking like maybe a mil more. I remain convinced that if the Giants had offered 2 years, he’d be here now.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
So this
Well, it might help if the GM of the San Francisco Giants didn’t go around repeating it as well.
Look this is not like the Giants are dealing with playing in CandleStone Park of the late 70’s and early 80’s. Now there was true park problem to have to overcome. IF there is an image problem I submit it is the management that is viewed more onerously then the park. If you’re a player with a couple years left and you want to at least go to the post season dance in those season why would you have any faith in Sabean and Botchy being able to purposely get there?
/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.
So what changed?
Was it a pitcher’s park before when kent and aurilia were hitting bombs?
or has it never been…
if it’s all about dingerz – leave right field alone (no need to rip out the heart of the beast) and pull in left and left center 10 feet – add some more seats and bring in some right handed power
Whoever invented rope was a real a-hole!
by Cannonballden on Jan 22, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
Park factors are variable based on the average performance of parks from year to year. When offensive numbers were inflated by things like Coors a few years go, AT&T looked like more of a pitcher’s park in comparison. Using the same example, Coors has become less of an offensive field with the humidor. That brings the league average down, which in turn brings AT&T’s standing with relation to that average up.
It’s like if AT&T was 4 for hitters, and then some other parks were a 3, a 4, a 5, and a 10, the average there is a little more than 5. So AT&T would be below average for hitters. But now that 10 has changed something and it falls down to a 6. Suddenly the overall average is a little over 4. And AT&T is basically league average.
That’s what happened.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 22, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
is it?
I’m more than a little skeptical of the park factor stats if I’m looking at the right ones: http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/year/2008
Phillies AND Yankee stadium are “worse hitting parks” than AT&T? Seriously?
that cannot be right. I’m wondering if the Park FActor stat is overcorrecting for good lineups/good pitching, e.g. our good pitching and the yankees and phillies stacked lineups and statistics are being overcompensated for making at&T (w/ good pitching) look better than it is for hitters and vise versa…
something’s f’d up or am I just blinded by anecdotes that yankee stadium and citizen’s parks are WAY better hitters parks. . . ?
Also, colorado went up in 09 (1.247) compared to 08 (1.126) and 07 (1.160) and 06 (1.149).
Whereas AT&T went from below 1.0 to 1.05+ in 08 and 09 (it actually looks like other parks improved more in 09 than At&t. . . so that would go against your theory no?)
Whoever invented rope was a real a-hole!
by Cannonballden on Jan 22, 2010 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
Somebody more knowledgeable than me would be better served answering that. I can’t believe that Philadelphia is that low.
I will say that the formula looks awfully… I don’t know… simple. The fact that the only stat that means anything to that particular formula is runs scored kind of gives me fits. It completely ignores how well the hitters actually performed. There are just too many things that can take runs away from good hitting to make me satisfied with a formula that only uses runs to evaluate hitting.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 22, 2010 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
park factors fluctuate
that’s why 3-year averages are best (of course need to wait a couple years for NYS).
They also cannot be “wrong” as they are just ratios of runs scored in different parks by the same batters. They may not by predictive (kind of like Andres Torres’ batting 2010 batting average).
NYS gives a tremendous boost to LHH HR – kind of the opposite of AT&T, but reduces other hits.
The most consistent way to think of park factors is only in retrospect. That is to say – they represent the “value” of a run (prevented) in that park. They are deviations in the “run scoring environment” for the league. The correction is similar to comparing 2009 to 1968. The average runs scored per game was much lower then, so VALUE of a given run (and hence, run components like hits, walks, extra bases, etc.) is higher.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
When those guys were Giants, during the steroid era, there wasn’t as big a problem hitting dingerz too
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
but doesn’t the park factor stat try to account for that?
(or is it not trying to remove confounding variables?)
Whoever invented rope was a real a-hole!
by Cannonballden on Jan 22, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
I know nothing about park factor. I’m just saying I’m pretty sure the pitchers park thing wasn’t as big an issue when guys were juicing
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
Why did we stop juicing again?
Whoever invented rope was a real a-hole!
by Cannonballden on Jan 22, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
This whole “pitcher’s park” perception pisses me off. I’m starting to think that maybe it’s time for management to make some small, insignificant, token alteration to the park, and present it as some major change, to make hitters think that it’s all cool now. Move one wall 2 feet or something – I don’t care. But if there’s some mental thing stopping guys from playing here (and I’m not convinced that’s true – I think that some guys just don’t want to play for this eff’ed up FO), then give them a placebo.
Or not. I dunno.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
If it were possible I’d like to see them move the left field wall out a few feet and then move the plate forward by the same amount. That would make the park a bit more favorable to LH power hitters without making it any easier on RHH. Also, more splash hits.
Not a bad idea
but sounds like a pain in the ass.
how about just pulling the left field wall in, tailoring to RH hitters and creating more of a potential home field advantage to build the team around?
Also, there’s always the old 309 299 trick.
Whoever invented rope was a real a-hole!
by Cannonballden on Jan 22, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
But if there’s some mental thing stopping guys from playing here (and I’m not convinced that’s true – I think that some guys just don’t want to play for this eff’ed up FO)…
I think this issue comes into play more than the mis-perception of AT&T being a pitchers park.
Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !
I’ve wondered lately if it’s been more of a: players don’t want to play for Alou, Botchy.
Having played sports I know players talk amongst themselves about coaches [I never played at a level where there was a "front office…] maybe the word on the diamond is manager x is a pain to play for?
Was “Botchy” a typo ? It’s appropriate, so I wasn’t sure :-)
Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !
rarely is the question asked!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:35 AM PST up reply actions
most players don’t play here very often (except those in the NL West) and their limited frustration here can cement their perceptions of AT&T. For example, remember when the Phillies were here last season and they bitched and moaned on their way out of town about all the should’ve been homerun balls they crushed that landed in someone’s glove? That limited experience cemented their perception of the park.
Yes, that’s a SSS situation, but for the most part, players still believe in anecdotes and feelings and recollections rather than park factors…and it is enough to solidify their perception of the yard. it’s probably worse for guys who play in a place like Philly where their yard is so small and they’re used to pop ups going out of the park.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 21, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
True
Unfortunately it is a pitcher’s park if you are looking for power numbers….especially for lefties and you can’t explain it away. RBI’s and extra base hits, ot a problem for line-drive hitters, though.
No plan whatsoever...
It just seems like Sabean has no plan or direction for the team. They say they are going to get young, then go out and get the old vets. It’s like they have no clue how to build something except rack up bad contracts. If Nuekom/Baer/Sabean came out at the beginning of the offseason and said “We aren’t going to blow big money on marginal players this year. But come next offseason, we will actively go after some major impact players when there is a higher quality free-agent class” I would be all for it. And I wouldn’t mind watching Fred Lewis dropping balls in LF or seeing Posey call a fastball down the middle on an 0-2 pitch.
by Section B, Row 1 on Jan 21, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t remember them saying they were going to “get young” this off season at all. They said that LAST YEAR, and they did to some extent – Burriss, F Lew, Sandoval, Ishikawa - and that failed so that by the end of the year only Sandoval still had his job.
Here was a Sabean quote from the winter meetings when asked about Dye:
We want to stay young. That’s not a reflection on Dye. That’s just a blanket statement," Sabean said. "I think every organization is into age now, getting as young as you can.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
This was naturally followed by signing a bunch of mid-30s players.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Bengie Molina Turns 36 In July and Mark DeRosa Turns 35 In February
You are right on Freddy Sanchez (turned 32 in December) Juan Uribe (turns 31 in March) and Aubrey Huff (turned 33 in December).
by giantsrainman on Jan 24, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
No plan?
Sabean has a clear plan post Bonds, and that is to build AROUND his pitching while developing position players who will be around awhile and cheap, but he also has a directive to try to win at the same time. If Fred Lewis is on the roster to start the season, there is a HUGE problem. He has ZERO baseball IQ. With his talent he should be a solid outfielder a high on-base guy and a great baserunner…he also has a decent arm, on the other hand, he consistently runs into outs, can’t bunt, throws all over the place, gets bad jumps on balls, drops balls, misplays balls, still has no clue of the strike zone, tries for HRs instead of liners which would let him use his speed. I have seen dozens of guys like him who tease, but really are AAA players because they just don’t belong on a decent ML team.
Lewis had the best “clue of the strike zone” of any Giant last year.
He had the smallest swing percentage on pitches out of the strike zone.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
what part of
“he can’t bunt” can you not understand?
That’s what Mark DeRosa is for. Plus, he can play many, many more positions than Fredd and get many more RBI.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Bengie Molina: "I don't understand why they didn't want to commit to another year, with my numbers and my experience and things like that." Brain Sabean: "He's certainly welcomed back with open arms".
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 25, 2010 7:05 AM PST up reply actions
tries for HRs instead of liners which would let him use his speed
The Giants wanted him to be more agressive last year & thought he should hit in the middle of the order. Isn’t this their fault, not Fred’s?
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
He's a solid OBP guy
Not like Abreu, but then again, Fred also has contact issues.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
And according to the best metrics available
He is a solid outfielder and a great baserunner…
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
One mister Matthew Holliday.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
The fact that they didn’t even try to sign Holliday points to a big problem with this team’s personnel management.
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
yup
I mean it’d be one thing if they had an offer out and just got out bid, but Sabean pretty much EXACTLY repeated the mistake he made with Vlad, except this time it’s even worse because our MiL replacements for the GRITTY VETS he signed instead are much better than they were before.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Vlad was a No Brainer
(IF Sabean only had a Brain).
But Holiday? Way more expensive, way too long a contract, plus I bet we would have had to bid $140-150 to pull him away from the Cardinals lineup.
Whoever invented rope was a real a-hole!
by Cannonballden on Jan 22, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
silly cornball
they were ignoring him so he would like them. Brain learned it at the 7th grade dance, and it’s never failed him yet.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:36 AM PST up reply actions
Do not sign: DeRosa, Huff, Molina, Sanchez=$19.5M. Trade for Akinori Iwamura. Sign Matt Holliday. Tender Garko a contract.
2B Iwamura
C Posey
LF Holliday
3B Sandoval
1B Ishikawa/Garko
RF Bowker/Schierholtz
CF Rowand
SS Renteria
P
All of a sudden, that’s a decent lineup, and instead of making marginal upgrades at first and left, we’ve significantly upgraded left and marginally upgraded first and catcher in addition to marginal upgrades at second and in right that would happen simply by getting rid of Burriss and Winn. Same amount of money, better team.
by quincy0191 on Jan 21, 2010 7:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
If they won’t play their own rookies, I really wish they’d be more aggressive on the scrap heap. There were a lot of catchers floating around that would have been better than bringing Bengie back (YEAH! Those otha brothas don’t know how ta act YEAH!), even if they needed a two year deal. Is there some other ML-quality catcher on the horizon for next year? Sometimes these 1-year gaps start worrying me because it means Brain and Bork have to find a new player every year.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:42 AM PST up reply actions
They didn’t even try to go after Cameron or Scutaro- both would have been impressive upgrades that could have been gotten for around $10 mil/1 year a pop.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
This just in
Theo Epstein is a better GM than Brian Sabean.
Seriously, though, Cameron would have been like an older, better Fred Lewis, as opposed to Derosa, who’s just older.
If the front office is going in “all in” mode Scutaro would have been an obvious move to replace Renteria with. It might have failed be enough but that move is at least deffesiveble from and “All in” stance.
If they were intent on tinkering arround I would have loved a JJJ Hardy, Kelly Johnson combo up the middle to start 2010. It to might have failed but there is plenty of chances to suceed their as well.
/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.
They could’ve even stuck Scutaro at 2B this year and moved him over to SS next year if they were dead set on keeping Renteria in the lineup.
This is the good kind of flexibility.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
Not to disagree with you Grant
But I think the front page, which drives the tone of the site more than anything else, is far more negative than it needs to be.
Consider, perhaps, the example of two signings from last season: Jeremy Affeldt and Edgar Renteria. Renteria is generally accepted to been a bad signing and has played poorly. Affeldt was considered a good signing and has performed even better than expectations.
But over the past year, the front page has seen at least two posts dedicated to how awful Edgar Renteria has been. Here and here
Obviously, that’s completely fine. There’s nothing wrong with writing about a player doing poorly.
But where is the front page post about how great Affeldt is doing, and how he’s outperformed all expectations and pitched like a total boss?
I don’t bring this up to say that I want you to stop criticizing. I don’t, honestly, I don’t. But could we maybe get a compliment every once in a while too? Not just an implied/invisible disclaimer at the start of every post?
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
by GiantPain on Jan 21, 2010 3:32 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
so was I and it made me a lot more skeptical of future similar moves by Sabean.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 21, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
Not a fair comparison
Renteria was nearly historically awful and he was paid $9 million to be so terrible. Add on to that the real problem that the idiot (oh, I’m soooo negative!) manager played him 120 more games than he should have and there is a story worth writing about.
Affelt was good, but incredibly lucky. To do a proper story on him would have been to say that he is doing well, but that it is sort of smoke and mirrors because he is getting a rediculous number of double plays and the like.
A more proper comparison would be to talk about the number of positive stories about Panda that there were. Or stories about Panda wondering in a objective manner what positions he should play in the future.
/auto-defenestrates
something something jhiat00 will swindle
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 21, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
Lucky? Or Clutch
He had balls of unobtanium (seriously??? I can’t see that movie w/ a word like that in it – i’d rather watch transformers in 1d).
Huge balls. He sacked up and kicked ass in huge situations. Will he duplicate? No way – at least not all the way. but you can’t just chalk it up to luck
Whoever invented rope was a real a-hole!
by Cannonballden on Jan 22, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
If you have the fingers - in - your - ears timing just right, the movie's fine. Try it!
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 28, 2010 6:33 AM PST up reply actions
You can’t really compare the starting SS who was one of the worst hitters in baseball last year to a relief pitcher who did pretty well. Also, Bochy compounded the Reneteria issue by benching the first basemen in favor of Renteria.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Pretty well?! Who got the MVP vote? Huh? Huh?
Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.
Wasn’t it Baggs who voted for him though
Hey Fred Lewis, remember Mother's Day?
by anotherbadexcuseguitar on Jan 21, 2010 7:07 PM PST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure the praising of Cain/Panda/Lincecum make up for the more-than-occasional outlash at Renteria
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jan 21, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
This is kind of like people who complain that the TV news only has bad news. Things going well isn’t much of a story.
“no one murdered anyone today” typically isn’t a headline.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 21, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
SommmmbOOODY….. got muuuurdeeerrrred
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
Somebody’s….dead for everrrr
The only band that matters.
Joe Strummer still snarls up in Heaven (not only here)
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 28, 2010 6:43 AM PST up reply actions
WATERSKIING SQUIRREL!!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
DOG BITES MAN!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:44 AM PST up reply actions
But it’s more fun, and perceived to be more honest, when you bitch and complain. If you say good things you come across as either dimwitted or a suckup, e.g. Purple Row.
JUST A CITY BOY
You nailed it.
“…perceived to be more honest, when you bitch and complain. If you say good things you come across as either dimwitted …”
Yes, this. And this drives me absofreaking batshit insane. It does. Not just on here, in fact not primarily on here, but in life, man. I’ve just hardly ever seen it spelled out so succinctly and accurately.
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
I had Affeldt in my sig for a year...
what more do you want?
I was also for the Renteria signing…. thinking it was no worse than other options (of course, the price of FAs collapsed after that, which since I didn’t expect I can hardly fault Sabean for not guessing that… even though it is, you know, his job.)
The problem with the Giants’ off season isn’t most of the moves… which are atomically kind of “meh”. It’s the fact that the reason the Giants are in the situation of having not only a terrible offense but one that’s very difficult to improve is still in charge. It’s funny. From one perspective there IS improvement. Signing bad players to 1-2 year contracts is way better than signing them to 6 and 7 year contracts.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
All happy transactions resemble one another; but every unhappy transaction is unique in its misery.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Nonsense and Insensibility
and Sea Monsters
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
A Mild Defense of The Giants FO
Make it extremely mild, because Sabean is the idiot who mismanaged the offense into the horrid station-to-station, no power creature that it is. However, this offseason was one of the worst ones of all time in terms of available offensive players, and that sucks, because had a few decent affordable, okay defensive players with an OPS between 800 and 850 been available, this team would win it all next year. The moves the Giants made weren’t great, but who should they have gone after? I’d have made a play for Figgins before Seattle went after him, but beyond him, they had no shot at Holliday (nor should they have paid him the money he wanted), they had no shot at Bay, and every other ‘name’ guy got way too much money or has found a front office climate that actually values real statistics and is still looking for a job (see: Damon, Johnny). Since Barnes was a sunk cost, the difference between Garko and Huff doesn’t bother me enough to whine about the non-tendering anymore (stupid trade in the first place when your manager won’t play the guy).
Ultimately, I really can’t complain about this offseason, because it pretty much just sucked before it started. I will complain about last year – Sabean should have analyzed this market, realized he’d be looking at a crap team, and overpaid a little for someone at the all-star break last year who could actually contribute this year (not to mention down the stretch last year). Instead, he broke up what could have been a nice trade duo to acquire spare parts like Sanchez and Garko, leaving himself with nothing to show for it except the hope that Freddy’s knee improves to reverse his declining numbers from the last two years. He had no plan for catcher this year, other than to gamble that Posey might be ready and then to thank God when Bengie found other teams had actually watched the game film of his ‘sprints’ down the first base line.
Amazingly, the division is so crappy, this team could actually win it all with 84 wins or so, which is feasible if the pitching staff holds up. Colorado has a killer outfield and some good young pitchers, but they have a lot of question marks, the Dodgers starters are scary after Kershaw and Billingsley, and Arizona is going to find out why Edwin Jackson has been traded so many times that they’ll scream Scherzer’s name in the front office for years to come. Oh, and San Diego plays in this division, too, which is nice. So, the team could win in spite of the field manager’s low grades in Strat-O-Matic 101 and the GM’s inability to find the link to Fangraphs and BP. I’m going to the games regardless, because I can’t get enough of the Cha-Cha Bowls, but it’ll be a lot more fun to see a guy who can move from 1st to 3rd on a long single. It’ll have to be the Giants opponent, but it’ll do.
Eliminate that pesky Dominatrix in one easy step. Step 1: Tell her you're a Cubs fan!
TMOX, I’m on board with you. This sort of how I feel. There just wasn’t much out there and I think they got players who might be only marginally better, but are better than the guys they are replacing.
Did anyone else see that Sanchez had shoulder surgery?
Sanchez?
The guy that just had a physical?
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:44 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t actually see all that many question marks on the Colorado team, unfortunately.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
And conceivably they will have a major addition, if by chance Francis is healthy again.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I’m trying to figure out how many ways I can fall into the Alec Guinness chasm here. I’m up to at least 10, but I’m going to stick with this one.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
I knew if I refreshed the page enough something would happen.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
BYOBB
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
The extra B is for BBBQ
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
That one’s a typo
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Sarlac Pit?
/auto-defenestrates
something something jhiat00 will swindle
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 21, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
I think you mean
sabacc pit
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:45 AM PST up reply actions
Cheers
Great response Grant. I understand where you’re coming from. I just wanted to voice some frustration of what I saw as too much negativity about our team. It’s inspiring to see so much passion here about….well, a baseball team. Why is that inspiring? Who the hell knows, all I know is I can’t wait til spring.
by world wide suicide on Jan 21, 2010 3:39 PM PST reply actions
I hope I’m wrong. I hope Aubrey Huff is the Huff of 2008. I hope Mark DeRosa rebounds to be the DeRosa of 2008. I hope Edgar Renteria repeats his season of 2007. I hope Aaron Rowand relives his last year as a Phillie. I hope Bengie Molina keeps the pitching staff happy, I hope he maintains his power, and I hope he’s able to turn the spot over to Buster Posey in a bloodless coup.
GRANT WUZ WRONG!
Actually, he won’t be. They will stink. You heard it here 43rd.
/auto-defenestrates
something something jhiat00 will swindle
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 21, 2010 3:48 PM PST reply actions
For all the negativity there is now, come opening day, I’m sure we’ll all be showing our optimistic sides. At least until the bottom of the first.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jan 21, 2010 3:52 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
20 something days until Spring Training!!!!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
27 days, 8 hours.
http://www.springtrainingcountdown.com/
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
I’m going during spring break, It might be the only time I get to see Bustery Poser until I get out of school again and watch the Sac vs Fresno games
Hey Fred Lewis, remember Mother's Day?
by anotherbadexcuseguitar on Jan 21, 2010 7:08 PM PST up reply actions
TAKE PIX
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Yup.
And luckily for all of you, my optimistic side is my backside.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
Last year when the MLB Network showed the Caribbean Playoffs, I seemed to cheer up. Probably because I was seeing live baseball and I really wished it was the Giants on the field.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 21, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t want to be told to cheer up.
We were close enough to contend that a solid improvement could have given us a reasonable chance to make the playoffs. The FO (for a myriad of reasons -some surely beyond their control) only improved the team a little bit. That bums me out.
FU, FO
It’s hard to imagine how Vladamir Guerrero wouldn’t have gotten us a championship at least once.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Jan 21, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
He would have only had one shot at it: 2004. After that the team would have sucked with or without Vlad.
Thank you Tyler Walker and Armando Benitez
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
Tyler Walker doesn’t belong on on the same level as Benitez.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I remember a game very vividly after about a 3-hour rain delay wait. Walker proved that his name has meaning, and walked in about 4 runs.
Benitez just implodes.
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
Probably
But the 2006 squad was briefly in first place in mid-July until the Terrmel Sledge debacle. With one more crazy good hitter… probably not, but they’d have been at least notionally in contention well into September. It could have changed history, too. Had they been “in this thing,” some kid named Tim Lincecum might have been pitching out of the bullpen in September.
I like your new sig, oldjacket.
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
IT’S TOO NEGATIVE
(NOTE to Heimy and WWS: I like you guys, and I see where you’re coming from but it’s the way I feel and I’ve got good reasons for feeling it)
FU, FO
I’m optimistic about your pessimism
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 21, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
I guess I’m more pessimistic than you if you think they improved the team a little bit. I don’t think they improved at all. (I’m counting Sanchez as status quo; if the benchmark at 2B is Burriss, then they are better.)
It’s funny. I think your more pessimistic about this offseason because you’re more optimistic about the young players getting benched.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
Side track - % chance the Pads finish with more wins then teh Giants in 2010
Right now I am at 25%
/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.
I'm so excited
Spring Training is just around the corner. Can’t wait to see the kids in the first half of March.
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
Schulman wrote a nice little bog about patience
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/index
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
i’ve been a patient of the Giants my whole goddamn life
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 21, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
at 24, I’ll really start freaking out at 30 if the Giants haven’t won a WS by then…also be freaking out because I’ll be 30
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
When you have logged 40+ years as a fan of this team, I want you to subject yourself to an optimism inquiry.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 21, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
You are 24 and running out of paitence ? The last time the Giants won a World Series I was (5). Of the three they have played in during my lifetime they have lost all three.
Like Lars, I have been a Giants fan for 40+ years and I will wait.
Matt Downs MLB , Now with More STATZ goodness !Matt Downs Fangraphs The Juan Uribe of 2011 !
Epitaph: “Saw one, and waited until death for another”
Hey Fred Lewis, remember Mother's Day?
by anotherbadexcuseguitar on Jan 21, 2010 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
I’m 31 and not freaking out.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
About a title that is. I’m freaking out about being 31 though.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
Ye Old Fellers!
just kidding!
/ducks
Hey Fred Lewis, remember Mother's Day?
by anotherbadexcuseguitar on Jan 21, 2010 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
OK, I waited.
More like “Unh”
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 28, 2010 6:48 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah
I’m freaking out way more about the niners. I know that probably makes people here hate me, but hey, I was a football fan first. Sue me.
I just don’t see a team run by Brian Sabean being able to win a world series, unfortunately.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
this is where being a relative old guy helps me
I saw them win 5 Super Bowls in my lifetime. Can’t take that away. Even if they suck for years.
I’d care less if that meteor hadn’t struck, perhaps
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Yeah
My only memory of the niners is 2002. So I would like some decent football, for god’s sake
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 21, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions
I routed for them before the Eddie D came along as well. Talk about a black hole of extreame Suck. Lords back then the W’s were a competant franchise.
The morale is never say, " It can’t get any worse."
/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.
Well
I lived through 2004 (kinda), it really can’t get worse than that.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 22, 2010 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, yes it has been worse and can be again.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at - 25%
I beg to differ
the only way it could be worse is if they were that bad for like 10 years. I could make a pretty strong argument that the 2004 49ers were the worst team since the merger….though admittedly I don’t know much about older NFL teams. It’s hard for me to imagine a worse team than that, though.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
As a kid growing up on the Peninsula in the 70’s the suck was relentless.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2010 8:16 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah
a team being terrible for years is worse than a team being all-time AWFUL for one year. IDK much about the rosters back then, but just in looking at that 04 team- there was not one single player that you could build an NFL team around.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 23, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
2-14 in ’78 and ’79… 7th and 8th grade for me. When we played football, my older brother was always the Raiders and I was the Niners because it was inevitable I would lose.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
What I remember about those late 70’s seasons was that the 49ers were always blacked out locally. They had a Monday Night Football game (vs. Pittsburgh, I think) and it was blacked out on KGO but was shown on the ABC affiliate in San Jose (SF didn’t get SJ stations then).
"meh"
Roger Staubach.
grrrr
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 28, 2010 6:50 AM PST up reply actions
Tell the magical season with Montana I watchinga niner game with my family and my dad saying, “Inside teh 25 . Brodie will roll right.” He then neamed the cowboys that would shoot which gaps. Brodie would roll right and the Cowboys pretty much crush it most of the time. That was my 49er postseason memory for almost a decade.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at - 25%
Walt Garrison.
grrr
Gene Washington.
And his so’ bro’ Vic.
Washington, N00bs!
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 28, 2010 6:53 AM PST up reply actions
Here's the problem with this offseason the Giants signed guys for the wrong reasons
They signed 2 veterans coming off of down years (Huff & Molina) when there were better options in house (Posey) or that ARE STILL AVAILABLE on the FA market (Branyan, Delgado).
DeRosa to me was like the Rowand signing-Sabes wanted to sign a fairly big name to show the Jason Bay’s of the world that people do want to play in SF.
Uribe though, was the worst signing IMO. The Giants have 2 ML Ready guys who could be utility guys (Rohlinger and Frandsen) but they re-signed Uribe for sentimental reasons and because he had the best year he’s ever had, but is unlikely to repeat it.
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Can you explain why it would have been so much better to take a risk on Delgado, who turns 38 this year and is coming off an injury plagued season, than taking a risk on Huff?
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
Because Delgado’s been much, much, much, much, much better than Huff over the course of his career?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Jan 21, 2010 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Other than that?
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
Delgado has been hurt, is older, & will want more money. I fail to see how this site wouldn’t have had a collective heart attack if he had been signed.
the idea was floated a few times
A few people were violently opposed, but generally people were guardedly positive about the idea.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
A lot of people around here mentioned Delgado as a potential 1B target during the various rosterbation threads last month. So there may have been a freak-out, but that deal would have at least had some defenders.
Every signing has had it’s defenders. Heck, most people kind of liked the Huff signing when it happened. I just don’t see how people are coming away with this impression that it’s been one big lynch mob on MCC the whole offseason.
Not meant for you taliesin, obviously.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
He was hurt last year. Look at his numbers the previous years. Track record means something, I think.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Jan 22, 2010 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
Because Delgado is a better hitter than Huff
also, you can recover from injuries… Huff though had a career year in a negative way last year. Normally those things don’t turn around. TBH I did/do think Branyan will be a trap signing but I’d rather take a chance on a guy coming off his best year ever than his worst year ever.
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
He’s turning 38 in June, is coming off hip problems, and would be expected to play 1b. He’ll likely end up as a DH this season
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
I'll concede that Delgado is a risk/reward signing
But IMO he’s a better risk than Huff
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
by Gobroks on Jan 21, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
GarkLOL
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
If there’s any validity to “they don’t want to play here” the FO gave it a lot of support with the Garko fiasco.
Who gets comfortable with the idea that they better not get comfortable?
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 28, 2010 7:09 AM PST up reply actions
Not for everyone...
But me, yeah.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
The thing that gets me
which I mentioned above, by not pursuing Holliday at all, Sabean is showing me that he didn’t learn anything from his mistake in 2003, and leaves me with very little confidence that he will ever learn that lesson.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Jan 21, 2010 4:41 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Thank You!
why this continuum hasn’t resulted in a new GM is beyond me.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 21, 2010 5:20 PM PST up reply actions
I am grateful that through Sabean’s blunders this offseason, Buster Posey will start in AAA and therefore be on the Giants for an additional year into the next GM’s reign.
Also, after they go .500 in 2010, Huff, Renteria, and Molina will all be gone, and we’ll be a year closer to no more Zito and Rowand. So at least Sabean wasn’t allowed to screw the future of the franchise… any further.
Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.
by jasomack on Jan 21, 2010 5:14 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
The focus of our negativity
Brian Sabean (aided by his side kick Bork) is the source of 99% of the negativity and it’s a hole of his own making.
The Zito contract has created a freeze into this organization that prevents the signing of premier FA’s. Add the chill of the Renteria and Rowand contracts (though admittedly tempered by Affeldt and Uribe) and such signings are too far beyond their comfort zone to happen. I am afraid this freeze will not thaw unless Sabes is fired before next years more target rich FA market.
I totally agree with those saying these offseason moves were lateral performance moves that cost much more money than in house solutions. I would have like to see an overpay to bring in just two FA’s Nic Johnson and one of Brad Penny or Ben Sheets. I said it in another thread but it bares repeating, if you believe money or anti park bias prevents you from strengthening your weaknesses, then strengthen your strengths. Would over paying Johnson and Sheets or Penny to come to SF been more productive than spending the same money on Benjie, DeRosa and Huff? I think so. With a high OBP like Johnson and a #2 – 3 rotation guy slotted in as your #5 starter you could reasonably expect to win 4 more games which puts you into the playoffs.
We are negative because we have a GM that has made many more bad moves in recent years than good. He continues to follow the same patterns and expect different results.
Still love the Giants. Intensely dislike the GM’s MO.
Radical Racing
by Radical Racing on Jan 21, 2010 5:53 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'm okay with everything except for Molina.
A lot of money comes off the books next year, too. The Giants will be better than they were, I think.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
At least I don’t displace the pool when going for a swim, you fat, monstrous slug.
"Career potential: situational lefty." Situation: Ragnarok, bases loaded, Odin at the plate. You know who's getting the call.
-Adopted Giant: Dan Runzler
What if we do have a good year?
then next offseason we are right back where we are now with all these one year contracts. I’m really scared of what will happen if some of these players DO have bounceback seasons and Sabean decides to re-sign them and over pay for multi-year deals. I don’t really like the idea of rental players and half the roster turning over every year.
Play the kids! Let them try to develop
by OTTOMATIC on Jan 21, 2010 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
this has started to bother me too
I know it reduces the amount of fail possible, but it also means they have to scramble around every year looking for another Klesko/Garko/Hindenbrand/Huff. One year deals don’t “block” anyone in the system, which is another reason cited for them, but consecutive one year deals/rentaplayer trades seem to have the same effect.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:54 AM PST up reply actions
A lot of money comes off the books next year, too.
Man, how many times have I convinced myself to be optimistic by repeating this line? They keep having a lot of money coming off the books, and they keep spending it on stupid contracts all over again. It’s mind-numbing.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
But the new stupid contracts are less stupid than the stupid contracts of the past! I, for one, see improvement. Unfortunately it’s growth from a low base.
All the grading on a curve that goes on with the Giants kind of drives me crazy, I have to say. A bad move is not a good move because it could’ve been a REALLY bad move but wasn’t.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Ah, but it is better.
I’m not defending Sabean. If your car’s engine catches fire in your garage but you manage to put it out before it sets your house on fire, it’s true that it could have been worse, but your car is still destroyed.
Attach the Stone of Shame!
Matt Morris was traded! Yay!
Aaron Rowand was signed! DOH!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:55 AM PST up reply actions
going back in time a couple more years
Matt Morris was signed! DOH!
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
Fangraphs recently had a good post on fan over-optimism when looking at the coming year
On their website, fans are collectively projecting players to perform at a level that averages out to around 90 wins per team. So, it stands to reason that when someone comes along and makes reasonable assessments of players, that reasonable, realistic assessment will be well below fan expectation (see rainman, giants) and castigated as pessimism.
I actually think Grant is on the moderate side of things (with a very strong side of snark) and the posters who are clamoring for optimism are unrealistic and want to be left alone in their fantasy world. Fine. Just don’t ask me to live in fantasy world with you. (As an aside: one of the nice side effects of cold, calculating statistical analysis is that it keeps you grounded and protects you from delusion disguised as optimism).
That said, some people are absurdly pessimistic and do tend to focus almost exclusively on the negative, which is the opposite extreme resulting in the same fantasy world.
Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.
by tedfordfan on Jan 21, 2010 6:42 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Excellent post
Well done and rec’d.
"I never watched baseball on TV. It's slow and boring. I'm not a fan. Never was." - Jeff Kent
So…. anybody wanna talk about something new? the tone of the offseason has been AWESOME!!!! i dont know why everyone is all pissed off lately… but hey, i’ll take this lineup, fuck it
last sentence should have
an “and” instead of the comma after lineup.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
Remember — it takes only one call to ruin a movie. Or a baseball team.
Yes, really, I have not updated my blog in a long long time: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
I was fairly OK with this offseason until Molina came crawling back. I was so pleased they didn’t add PODS, or Dye, or Blalock, they didn’t bring back classey, which I gotta admit I was a bit proud of Sabes for, but then the Fat Man cometh and taketh away.
Grant’s quote “I hope he’s able to turn the spot over to Buster Posey in a bloodless coup.”, says it all for me. That day can’t come soon enough.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Jan 21, 2010 8:09 PM PST reply actions
I wouldn’t mind much if the coup was bloody. It would serve them right if Molina got all pouty and whiny in August when they give the job to Buster, just destroying their precious “clubhouse chemistry.”
(Yes, I know they’re not really going to give the job to Buster at any point this season.)
I just keep telling myself that they’ve learned their lesson [roflol] from what’s going on now with Timmy, and they don’t want to have to go to arbitration with him before necessary etc etc… Didn’t Posey sorta hold out forever when he was drafted? Maybe that didn’t sit well with the Brazz so they want to avoid early arb at all costs?
Man I’m tired of trying to justify this crap to myself…
Maybe. But people in that FO seriously think Posey’s A) too dumb too call games/handle a staff, and B) not strong enough.
Pretty scary stuff really.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Jan 21, 2010 8:59 PM PST up reply actions
Didn’t Posey sorta hold out forever when he was drafted?
This pretty much always happens with the top prospects in every draft. They almost all sign at the last minute, right at the deadline. Same thing with Wheeler this year. If that didn’t sit well with them, they’re kind of dumb.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
yeah exactly
they all sign at the last moment cause it maximizes their leverage.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
at some point
Tim and Matt (or one of them) will start telling Brain what to do, I hope. If that’s what happened to bring Molina back I’d hate that whole thing less, but otherwise I’m hoping that they start leaning on Brain. Preferably before they start getting emails from back east with contract offers.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 22, 2010 7:57 AM PST up reply actions
i didn't read through all the comments but
San Francisco Giants second baseman Freddy Sanchez(notes) underwent left shoulder surgery and might not be ready by opening day.
who is going to be our 2nd baseman if he isn’t back, Frandsen?
01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey I really thought you had a shot
where's this from?
and damnit.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
goddamn it
shoulders are such a warning flag too. Orthopedically, they are the toughest to deal with. Knees, ankles, etc, there is much more understanding about how to treat.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Are you kidding me? Didn’t the SF team doctors check this guy yet again before they redid his deal? Holy friggin’ moly.
Yes, really, I have not updated my blog in a long long time: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
no kidding
And I seem to recall getting blasted for suggesting that perhaps Sanchez wasn’t someone you wanted to re-sign, given that he had both knee and shoulder injuries last year. That perhaps it was a sign of things to come, given his position and age.
They seem to have hired the Mets trainers.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Well, shit. Glad we’ve got Uribe, then, i guess.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
by can of corn on Jan 21, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
/ snickers, gawphs, snickers.
/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.
MMMM… Snickers.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
Deep fried Snickers….
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 22, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Deep fried anything. . . .
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
by can of corn on Jan 22, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
I really like where this is heading.
Threat level that the 2010 Pads finish with more wins than the 2010 Giants is currently at - 25%
So your glad I didn’t mention deep fried turds being superior to the turd sandwich then?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2010 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
found it
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
reply flail
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Article is up on SFGate, yep.
Yes, really, I have not updated my blog in a long long time: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
i originally saw it on yahoo sports
but it said that bork called in to KNBR and said it
01.19.2010
r.i.p. buster posey I really thought you had a shot
Yesssss
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
So, the surgery on Sanchez’s shoulder was on his left, not his right, which put him on the DL back in August.
So, on one hand, I’m glad it wasn’t the same one, as it really makes me question the decision to re-sign him with unresolved medical issues. On the other hand, the fact that he’s had multiple injuries combined with his age, makes me question the decision to re-sign him.
Well, lovely. This is the other shoulder, not the one that was hurt and put him on the DL in August.
So, on one hand, I’m glad it wasn’t the same one, as it really makes me question the decision to re-sign him with unresolved medical issues. On the other hand, the fact that he’s had multiple injuries combined with his age, makes me question the decision to re-sign him.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
They just can't put it all together
We went from wasting the best offensive player ever to play the game to wasting an incredible pitching staff. Le sigh
They say you're a pitcher; you sure aren't much of a dresser.
See I'm with that, but about Benji specifically...
I follow the potentially wasted pitching staff and dismal lack of creativity and the bleak danger of injured has-been 30+ hopehopehopes. (Durham, Alfonzo, Hillenbrand, Perez, Renteria, Rowand… all great signings if Conte n Co were still up and running with Bud’s tacit blessing) Thought every move was lateral and before we brought on Benji. I thought we had the exact same lineup as far as run punch is concerned, except with more injuries and more questions answered about our youth.
I’m not crying about Benji because when he was signed, after the front office had already not shit the bed so much as left it untucked and smelling farty and jackoffy, we needed something more than Yorvit to threaten a pitcher. Now, if all stays healthy as it already has not re Sanchez we at least have a chance at having some rbi throughout the lineup. If the old crew can do anything to viagra up. I get the “One more in a line of fuck ups” thought about him. But really, if we’re going that bondo-joints route he made sense. I think he made sense. Sans legs and obp and all. Doyle Brunson all in style. The only other option is of Posey could actually make a real dent this year, which is anybody’s guess.
A guy who makes outs as much as Bengie doesn’t scare pitchers.
WHY IS BENGIE?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 22, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
Even if Posey doesn’t make a real dent, he’ll be better than Molina. If he does make a real dent, he’ll be way better.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
DURHAM WAS A GOOD PLAYER, PEOPLE
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
so was freddie sanchez
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 23, 2010 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
what happened
to all the people that complained about Durham? I thought the grougthink had him down as THE PROBLEM.
Maybe they got sick of all the negativity about their negativity and left.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Bengie Molina: "I don't understand why they didn't want to commit to another year, with my numbers and my experience and things like that." Brain Sabean: "He's certainly welcomed back with open arms".
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 25, 2010 7:08 AM PST up reply actions
scare is too strong
I don’t mean to call the move rad. But the free agents left now look worse to me for various reasons. The lineup without him looks worse to me. If you wanna argue Posey you can argue Posey. And biofuel. And health care reform. And other things up in the air.
+ reply is your friend
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 22, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
Camp Benjie
You sign a guy for 4.5 mil that nobody else really wants. Do you get to tell him get yourself in real shape so you do not clog up the bases? For 4.5 mil you should have the right. Send Benjie to Camp Panda right NOW!
If for no other reason he should do it for the betterment of his own career.
Radical Racing
lol
yes, I’m sure he’d submit to that kind of training.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Biggest Loser clause?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 23, 2010 8:17 AM PST up reply actions
I think
that’s in every Ginats contract.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Bengie Molina: "I don't understand why they didn't want to commit to another year, with my numbers and my experience and things like that." Brain Sabean: "He's certainly welcomed back with open arms".
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 25, 2010 7:08 AM PST up reply actions
How bad would the Giants be
if they didn’t have the pitching staff they current have. So no Lincecum or Cain. Just average or below average starters. Would Sabean and Bochy be here? Giants may lost 95 games without their pitching in 2009.
"meh"
Next question: would the Giants be worse off without Lincecum and Cain, but with Sabean and Bochy fired, in terms of future WS appearances and victories?
Debatable.
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6
FO vs. fans
This seems to be a very common refrain for all sorts of teams and sports (not just baseball) and it makes me wonder…obviously the FO does not pay attention to the fans, and on the surface that makes sense – the FO are professionals paid to do their job and thus they should know better than the masses.
But then you see all these examples of the administration making continual bonehead moves that keep the team from moving forward or taking that ‘next’ step, and I just have to wonder — do the bigwigs really think they’re doing it right, and their philosophy will work this year, despite not working for years now? (the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, right?) Or are they just intent on proving that their way is best and damn it, they know what they’re doing? I just don’t understand how administrations can just keep on doing the same thing over and over, especially when it doesn’t work.
Sam's Town -- The Killers
We’ll see. The widespread free (or almost free) dissemination of data has allowed non-paid people to arm themselves with much of the same information as the professionals; that the “informed fan” opinion diverges so often from the front office opinion, illustrates an idiomatic or paradigmatic gap that may have to do with being/coming from “the system”/ community (wherein managers, coaches, scouts, and GMs have tended to come from) and the informed fans (from various walks of life, many of whom resemble sports journalists in motivation more often than not.) Which approach—and there are many different approaches within both paradigms—works for a given season, or for a given period of seasons, I don’t think I can tell. It all seems like informed guesswork to me. Of course, having been given both salary and authority, the owners, whose investment and personal pride is actually on the line, should demand that front offices’s guesswork would be more informed than the informed fan’s.
JUST A CITY BOY
by shanghaijim on Jan 23, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
Padres sign Matt Stairs to a minor league deal wiST
coming off a .194/.357.379 seaason
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 23, 2010 2:30 PM PST reply actions
over/under on number of position players
on the Giants’ 25-man roster that Stairs out hits in 2010:
3.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
Well he might not even make the team
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 24, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions
good point
I’ll drop it to 1.5 until he makes the team.
TEMPORARY SIG AWAITING FINAL SABEAN APOCALYPSE
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game in development
Ok, but what about the diction and syntax of the offseason.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 23, 2010 3:22 PM PST reply actions
what about the dramatic irony of the offseason? are we not the audience that seems to know critical plot information that the fo (thespians) do not?
Les Plack = more chicks
Dingerz.exe League Champs 2009- The Rile Rods...managed by yours truly.
by Headhunter Rollins on Jan 24, 2010 12:56 PM PST reply actions
I’ve been mostly unenthused myself. I am not sure why the Molina signing tipped me to the positive, but I did get there without being some goofball Pollyanna.
I can understand the lack of enthusiasm for some of the new hitters, but when you have great pitching, just a little more hitting can go a long way. There’s little reason to believe that the Giants will score less runs this year. They probably score 40 more runs, give or take 40. I guess you should think that their pitching some come back to earth, but I can see the pitching getting better too. Johnson, Sadowski, Martinez, Valdez, Howry out, Bumgarner, Runzler, Joaquin in could be better. J Sanchez might have an overall more consistent year. The Giants hitting, on a position by position does not look any worse. No one seemingly had career year. A fixed up F Sanchez or Uribe will be better than Burriss, and less Fred Lewis is aok. Rentaria’s surgery might make him a touch better. If he is worse, there is always Uribe.
You know Giants management has heard of on base average and even values it. Truth is that the stats show the Giants offense was below average last year in just about every way imaginable (power, average, speed). You can look at lots of stats and just about the only thing that they were better than average was triples (which is more about the park) and sac flies (which is probably due to Molina). So on a limited budget and limited free agent pool, the odds that the GIants would get above average in power, speed and average and OBP is very, very low.
Other things I like about the moves is that they were all one or two year contracts of modest size. At the the of 2010 contracts for Rentaria, Molina, Uribe ($17+ million) all end. So at mid season and next year they are in a good position to make some more incremental improvements in the lineup. The will know more then and there might be some better opportunities. At that time, if their lineup is a bit better and their winning percentage is better, it will also be a lot easier to lure high end free agents.
So on a different wavelength, my biggest complaint is not the Aubrey Huff signing per se, its that the Giants have someone on their team named “Huff” (very bad!) and someone on their team named “Aubrey” (oh that sounds tripply bad!!!). That does not sound like a Giants name. It sounds like he should be hunting fox over in snooty, merry old England. If he hits as much as one home run like Bonds (deep center or deep cove) I’d be very surprised and may soften up on this stance a bit, but I ain’t holding my breath on that.
Other than that….
Beyond Pessimism
You are so far beyond pessimism that they only thing you have left to do is pull the trigger. Reading your bs makes one wonder why you would even be a giants fan. Maybe the only thing you have left, if you want to go on living, is to become a dodger fan. Maybe they will make you happy, because the giants clearly make you unhappy.
What the holy hell fuck? Another asshole talking about death? At least this isn’t saying “You should die.” But still, god damn, people.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 25, 2010 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
If the Giants don’t make you unhappy, chances are you are not a very good fan.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 25, 2010 9:17 PM PST up reply actions
Blame Sabean and Bochy for the pessimism....
Being a fan of a team doesn’t mean that you can’t be critical of them. In fact, being critical (when deserved) only makes you a better fan, because then you’ll likely start to think why the team has sucked so badly in its recent history and what they could do to reverse the trend.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
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