Steroids and the Hall of Fame
by Grant on Jan 15, 2010 11:04 AM PST
984 comments
Every now and again, a fella wakes up and feels like bloviating. Bear with me. And don’t stand too close....
The argument against steroids, whittled down to its core:
A player who is unwilling to take performance-enhancing drugs because of the associated health risks should not have to compete with a player who is willing to assume those risks.
John Utilityboots and Jack Versitilitito are fighting for the same roster spot, but John shows up to camp with the body of Jim Van Der Slug and wins the job. Jack rides a fetid bus all summer; John secures a three-year deal in the fall. Jack could have done the same thing, but he worried about the minor details associated with performance-enhancing drugs, like shrunken testicles, cancer, and acne. Acne! Like, on his back and stuff.
The medical risks for this new brand of PEDs are still somewhat unknown. It’s easy for reporters to jot down the side effects from a medical reference book printed in Lyle Alzado’s rookie year, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t risks. There are risks, and it’s unfair to cede an advantage to someone willing to take those health risks. That’s just part of a complex ethical argument.
But the argument is often presented as "cheaters" vs. "non-cheaters," which is ridiculously reductive. It completely eliminates the context of the era. Back in 1998, Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa saved the game after the strike in 1994. It’s odd, but Microsoft auto-formats that phrase to be in italics, and it somehow knows that I’m not writing about Brian Wilson or Robb Nen. Robb Nen saved the game that led the Giants to the NLCS. See, no italics? But Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa saved the game. And that’s how, by law, you had to refer to the ‘98 season. While McGwire hit dingerz and saved the game, he had 50-gallon tubs of androstenedione in his locker while he gave interviews. He was also taking stuff that one couldn’t find over the counter, but that was just a footnote in the story of someone who saved the game.
When a reporter started making noise about the androstenedione, it was the reporter who was vilified. He was ridiculed like a guy who brought a dog-eared copy of "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus" to an orgy. Stop worrying about the fine print, Jimmy Olsen, and just enjoy the lovefest.
In the winter between 1998 and 1999, a lot of players said, "Hey, I’d like to save the game too." Fringe players wondered if bulking up would help them stick on a roster. It often did, and use snowballed. Major League Baseball acted like the principal who knew that the kids with Megadeth patches sewn on their denim jackets would congregate and smoke behind the gym at lunch. There wasn’t much to gain from hardline enforcement of policies that few cared about.
When players like F.P. Santangelo took performance-enhancing drugs, it’s doubtful that they were thinking about the ethics behind their roster spot. When players like Mark McGwire took performance-enhancing drugs, it’s doubtful that they ruminated on the complexities of baseball’s history, and how performance-enhancing drugs would make it hard to compare players in different eras in a sport that makes a big deal about comparing players in different eras. "This stuff makes me stronger, and I’m not so tired all the time? Does it make me grow a horn out of my forehead? No?" *Inject*
This isn’t to imply that it was just fine that a large percentage of the players were using. It’s not something that’s inconsequential, and it isn’t something that can be laughed off because a lot of players were using. But, good gravy, please stop the good vs. evil, hobbits vs. orcs, black and white discussion. Stop the false dichotomy of players from THE STEROID ERA vs. the OLD-TIMERS who did things the right way and who, if offered a way to extend their careers and improve their numbers with some chemicals, would have said "No way! I’m an old-timer who does things the right way!" I’m not sure if Rod Carew, Robin Yount, or Paul Molitor would have used steroids if they played in an era saturated in chemical enhancements, but the odds are that one of them would have. I say we kick them all out using the "Fallibility of Man" clause, just to be sure.
So when I hear or read that McGwire shouldn’t get in the Hall of Fame because he didn’t apologize the right way, it makes me stabby. Apologize to whom? To me? I had an idea he was using at the time, and I didn’t really care. I certainly never examined the ethics behind steroids until it became a much larger story. Apologize to the reporters? Stop it. Apologize to the Maris family? Oh, pl...wait, that might be a good apology to make with the benefit of hindsight. But stop with the hastily constructed litmus tests.
Steroid users should be considered for Hall-of-Fame induction. Their use of steroids should be a factor in the voting. It’s entirely plausible to wonder if Rafael Palmeiro would have had 500 home runs without performance-enhancing drugs. And if you’re going that route, it’s worth wondering if players like Rusty Staub or Boog Powell would have reached some easily identifiable milestones if they had chemical help. It's worth wondering if Palmeiro's advantage was lessened by having to face pitchers who were also using. Use of performance-enhancing drugs should be a factor in Hall of Fame voting. It’s a complex issue.
It’s a complex issue.
It’s a complex issue. And, like most issues in life, refusing to acknowledge the ambiguity of the issue is a good way to make simple, disposable arguments.
Tomorrow: more Bocock and Merkin jokes, I promise.
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POOP!
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Grant shooting for the poo-litzer
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
don’t be brown-nosing
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
way to butt-pee on my parade
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Quality bloviatin'
Even though the “dangit, it’s all shades of gray” argument is not very satisfying or good for shouting at people – it’s as simple as that: complicated.
I’m looking forward (sorta) to twenty years from now and some sober(er) reflection by the General Public.
by PDXorangeandblack on Jan 15, 2010 11:12 AM PST reply actions
I don’t know how the reflections of Dave Wakeling and Ranking Roger will settle anything.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
One of life’s little mysteries is how Fine Young Cannibals became more popular than General Public. Whatever happened to any of those guys, anyway?
Uhuh play the white man
Work like a black
General Public…striking BACK!
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
She drives me crazy
and I can’t help my self
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
I see you and raise you...
Hot legs against my chest
Stomach tight and wet
The very best
Yes you’ve guessed!
You’ve guessed it!
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
Lyrical Genius
She drives me crazy,
Uh uh,
Like no-one else,
Uh uh,
She drives me crazy,
And I can’t help myselft,
Uh uh
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
That is such a great song
but Dave never plays it anymore. He still plays “Tenderness” and “Never You Done That” and sometimes “Burning Bright”
Boiling over bubbling hot!
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Dave Wakeling still tours as The English Beat but with none of the originals. They played in San Jose last night and will be in The City tonight. I’ve heard Roger has his version of The Beat and still plays in the UK.
by faust10 on Jan 17, 2010 12:22 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
The General Public will be no more sober in 20 years. Besides, by then players will be replacing their organs, muscles and tendons with superior lab-grown components, like those silly cars in The Fast and The Furious. Suspected cheaters will have to be checked like a bat for cork using exploratory surgery. And we’ll all pine for the good old days of the urine test.
Choppin' broccoli
by SimpleJaquez on Jan 15, 2010 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
START TO PINE, MEAT
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
I’m not sure if Rod Carew, Robin Yount, or Paul Molitor would have used steroids if they played in an era saturated in chemical enhancements, but the odds are that one of them would have.
There is no certainty that Carew, Yount or Molitor didn’t use steroids. In fact, I am willing to posit that at least one of them did.
The issue didn’t start with Sosa/McGwire. They just happened to break a record that was around a long time.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 11:12 AM PST reply actions
Especially if you want to expand beyond Steroids-with-a-capital-S. Greenies are harder to test for, and have fewer side effects—-why on earth would any player NOT take them?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
I’m having trouble finding things because all the sites that might give me an answer are blocked at work, but HGH is not actually a steroid either, correct?
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t know a ton about the stuff, but I know that HGH is not testosterone, so it must be different. There’s also less evidence showing that HGH affects baseball players in any fashion.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Bob Gibson said, in so many words, that he probably would have.
Think of the effect that added impetus would have on an already irritated pitcher.
HBP records constantly updated! Stay tuned to KMOX!
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
Less evidence
as in zero evidence.
There have been several double blind studies that showed no improvement in strength or athletic ability from HGH.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
I thought it was for injury recovery?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Hank Aaron did take them. where’s the outrage?
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 15, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
Nobody had figured out how to turn faux outrage into a profit back in those days.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
If you’ve ever read “Ball Four” it makes it sounds like greenies were used by most players on a relatively frequent basis.
The stats are what they are. You can’t do anything about it. You can discount them some as you should with the batting averages from the 30’s, (I think one year in the 30’s, the league AVERAGE was something like .290) but I think you have to elect people to the HOF based on the numbers, not on some hypothetical ‘what would they have done’
Wasn’t Ball Four written by Jim Bouton? Isn’t Jim Bouton a steroid-outrage guy?
The baseball Satanist
Yeah he’s being a total douche about the whole thing. It’s unbelievable how someone with his history can take his stance. People baffle me constantly with how stupid they are.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
Drugs?
Carew, Yount and Molitor were around during the Cocaine era…and any of them would have had access to steroids when they were still legal. Did they enhance their performances with the use of drugs? Well, the reports from Milwaukee suggested that the Brew Crew had a frosty problem…and I was friends with a bunch of those players….and (statute of limitations having long since passed) share white lines with a number of players on that team, as well as a couple other teams. And there was one player in particular who quit using and was never the same….1983 he quit, after having 5 great years in a row previously.
Just sayin……
Well now I know what bloviate means. That’s my 1 for the day. I’m going back to bed.
Nobody likes money
testing ...
McGwire and Sosa saved the game in ‘98.
Wilson saved the game in Randy Johnson’s 300th career win.
… Damn, you’re right.
Tomorrow: more Bocock and Merkin jokes.
Today: shrunken testicle and bacne jokes.
I'm up... everyone move in!
don’t forget kids with megadeath patches
by microwave donut on Jan 15, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
megadeth only has one a in it
get it puff puff right
Les Plack = more chicks
Dingerz.exe League Champs 2009- The Rile Rods...managed by yours truly.
by Headhunter Rollins on Jan 15, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
I know it’s a tough thing to judge, but if Mark McGwire didn’t do steroids he wouldn’t have been a Hall of Famer. Hitting homeruns was ALL he did. Same for Sosa. Barry Bonds was a hall of famer in every sense of the word without steroids. That won’t stop them from keeping him out when the time comes.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
But he was breaking down before he started taking them.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
Question is, when did he start taking them? It may be that he got so bulked up by taking them in 1989 or whatever that he wound up with too much wear and tear on his legs, necessitating further steroid use to recover from all the injuries.
But yeah, without the steroids he was probably Dave Kingman, maybe with a little better eye.
McGwire Was Healthy His First Five Years (1987 thru 1991) Playing More Then 150 Games In Each Season
According to his “confession” he experimented with steroids first after the 1989 season by taking a single 4 week cycle and then did not use them again until 1992 which is when he started experiencing serious injury issues. So that leaves me with three questions. 1) Did the steroids exasperate his injury issues? 2) Did he find better drugs and/or better cycles to use them in that allowed he to get and stay healthy for 1997 through 1999 when he again played in more then 150 games in all three seasons. Was aging the only change that caused the return of injuries after 1999?
It might actually be logically argued that Big Mac’s career would of been even better (even with a lower peak) if he had never touched the stuff.
by giantsrainman on Jan 15, 2010 6:18 PM PST up reply actions
Why would steroids exasperate his injury issues?
Do injuries have feelings??
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Exasperate Has Another Meaning And Context Must Be Used To Determine Which To Apply
1. To make very angry or impatient; annoy greatly.
2. To increase the gravity or intensity of: “a scene . . . that exasperates his rose fever and makes him sneeze” (Samuel Beckett).
by giantsrainman on Jan 15, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
Better to use “exacerbate” in that sentence than “exasperate”. The second definition/usage you posted is considered obsolete by several dictionaries.
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
I Am 55 And If What I Leaned In School Is Now Obsolute So Be It
by giantsrainman on Jan 15, 2010 10:50 PM PST up reply actions
LOLD
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 15, 2010 11:22 PM PST up reply actions
U R 55
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
Wait...
…obsolute?
Dave, he’s schtealing your schtick.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
I think Palmiero should be in the hall someday too
Maybe the steroids helped him hit a few more homers than he would have, but I don’t see how it helped him with the 3000 hits or the 15 strait seasons with more than 80 rbis. Consistancy is something that eventually is rewarded (ask Don Sutton)
by crazedcrustacean on Jan 15, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
You don’t see how using illega methods of staying healthy can help with 3000 hits?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
It's only illegal because it's illegal
If it weren’t for that pesky label we’d be a lot more entertained.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
That doesn’t answer the question.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
It's a complex issue.
I often wonder quality vs. quantity. When Ripken plays one fucking inning and people sream "IRONMAN! " it gives you pause.
Did Palmeiro have the benefit of an intelligent lineup design? What if he hadn’t?
I get too hung up on control/variable. I want all players to undergo the same basic test…the same basic restrictions…the same basic circumstances. I know exactly where this line of reasoning will take me so I’m jumping o
But I loved what Barry did to a baseball when he caught it just right, and I know there’s an argument about his numbers being lessened if you fully apply that ass to risk.
Which is why I’m not a purist, because I hurt when I try to comprehend all the permutations.
It ought to be a Hall Of We Remember You Because You Did Something Memorable.
There. Now, can we get back to inanity?
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
A lot of political concerns go into what is legal. I am not interested in debating them within the context of baseball. If the guy broke the law, and it can be proved, he should be punished by the legal system. Saying his baseball stats are illegitimate is a totally different issue.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
I don't think Palmiero is a Hall of Famer
I think he is a classic case of a guy with good longevity stats, but to me, looking at a guy’s career accumulation of stats is not a good way to determine if they are a Hall of Famer (and the fact that most voters do this is one of the reasons I don’t take the Hall of Fame very seriously). In my opinion, a guy doesn’t deserve to be in the Hall of Fame unless he was one of the best players in the league at his position/role for a sustained period of time. Roberto Alomar was unquestionably the best 2B in baseball for a number of years and that is why he belongs in the Hall of Fame. Rafael Palmiero was never one of the best 1B/DHs in the game even in his best years.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 15, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
Wow, Palmeiro’s numbers are weird. Much better than I remembered, actually. And very weird.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
GOLD GLOVER!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
wait
looking at a guy’s career accumulation of stats is not a good way to determine if they are a Hall of Famer
and
a guy doesn’t deserve to be in the Hall of Fame unless he was one of the best players in the league at his position/role for a sustained period of time
contradicting, no?
F. the Lewis.
He’s just saying that he thinks that length alone isn’t enough.
(TWSS)
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
THAT’S WHAT S… oh.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
DON'T TEASE
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 15, 2010 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
in other words
in addition to being able to sustain production over a long career, a HOFer’s peak production should be very high as well.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
It needs to make you say "Wow, that’s impressive! Dare I say ‘Goofus-esque!’ "
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
What about vein-laden?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 15, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
I guess “sustained period of time” is not a good way to say that. What I mean is that in a player’s prime he needs to be among the very best in the game at his position or role. How long does that prime need to be? That’s not an easy question to answer, but if I look back at a guy with good career accumulation numbers and can’t find a period of about 5 years or so when he was one of the very best in the game, I don’t think that guy belongs in the Hall of Fame.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 16, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
We're all just guessing
How much did steroids help Palmeiro? I can’t answer that question. The one thing I do know is that Palmeiro’s career numbers are among some of the best in the game.
I’m not gonna hold steroids against him any more than I will the hold the fact that he played in Texas for a great deal of his career against him.
The baseball Satanist
And this is the problem. How are we ever going to be able to quantify the solution to the question “How much steroids help this player? And does is this affected by the fact that he was facing other players that were likely using steroids”?
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I just can’t comprehend a world that has Rafael Palmeiro in the HOF and not Will Clark.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
.....
I could totally kick Palmeiro’s ass.
Sincerely,
William N. Clark
Don't give him the game ball Dusty, you'll jinx it...
by The Neuschler on Jan 15, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions
Thrill right after Palmeiro's positive test
“You got caught partner!”
/with a chuckle
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
but if Mark McGwire didn’t do steroids he wouldn’t have been a Hall of Famer
I don’t know how you can say that. He was hitting HR’s since the day he stepped foot in the league, he took walks, at times had very good OBP’s…and then once we start considering how steroid aided pitchers prevented HR’s, and we don’t know how much steroids actually helped HR’s vs. other factors (would you be surprised to learn baseball “de-juiced” the ball to aid the perception that PED’s have been eradicated?)…..
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
he might have stayed healthier. After he got really big, he had some foot problems that cost him at least 2 seasons. Had he not been carrying around all that extra weight, he might have lasted longer and eventually put up HOF caliber numbers anyway.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 15, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Yep, lots of maybes, to pretend we have any idea what the effects of everything in play were is absurd. We flat out don’t know – we don’t even have a reasonable idea.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
exactly. all we can say for sure is what happened on the field. he hit the homers and took the walks and drove in the runs. That’s what the stats are for. The stats are morally neutral – they’re just records of what happened, i.e. those things actually happened and there’s indisputable proof. Its pure speculation to say which stats are bogus and which ones weren’t.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 15, 2010 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
And to try to change the stats completely destroys their credibility and purpose. As you said, they’re just counting actual events, if we try to change them, we’re altering history to match our view, and not actually be a record of what really happened.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
How many more homeruns hit because of steroids?
I don’t see how we can make a judgment such as this.
The baseball Satanist
+1
that’s why I’d be really pissed if Bonds isn’t a first ballot HoF’er . He was just a fantastic all around player pre-steroid usage. Dude could run, throw, hit, just a great 5 tool player. The only thing that I think will keep him back is because unlike Sosa or McGwire is Bonds is viewed as the face of steroids. He’s been vilified and in addition with I think his attitude (which I don’t know if it was exaggerated or not) hurt him.
Now batting catcher Buster Posey
my dream for 2010
yup
i mean, performance enhacers were being used long before the 90s, then McGwire and Sosa made it famous, and Barry thought, “why the hell not?” obviously, he went on to hit 73 homeruns in a season, and 762 for his career, and will forever being synonymous with “steroids”
I love people who villify Bonds
The media, and fans alike, have always hated Bonds because of the way in which he called media people out. Barry always let people know their contradictions and wasn’t afraid to say the ‘wrong’ thing, which, in reality, was just the truth. Barry grew up in an Era where the greatest player of all time was treated poorly because of his skin color, and his father was also the target of criticism for his off the field behaviors. When you’re a kid and watch your God father and father mistreated by people who know nothing about them other than what they hear, you distrust people and people like them. When news broke about Barry and steroids it was easy for the media to jump all over him. The man they always hated, and hated even more because he WAS THE BEST PLAYER OF HIS GENERATION IRREGARDLESS OF STEROIDS, was finally a target. Without ESPN, without the new age of instant sports coverage via internet, TV, blogs, etc. Barry would never have been vilified so heavily. The media’s and fan’s obsessions with steroids are not about steroids, but more about the individuals who succeed at a level higher than the rest. Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa, Palmeiro, Clemens, etc. are all targeted because of their personalities and success. Meanwhile, Pujols isn’t suspected, and if he is it’s not talked about, because of how likeable he is and how cordial he is with the media. David Ortiz was caught using steroids, but no one cares because he’s funny and the media loves him. It’s a contradiction amongst the people who root for these players who use steroids, and then cry foul when they find out they used, then get over it again and root for them, and then hate them when it’s time to discuss their hall of fame candidacy. For me, I suspect everyone uses them, and I couldn’t care less if they did. I don’t care how ‘clean’ someone is, as long as baseball is on, I will watch.
I apologize for how long this piece is, and I suspect none of you will have read the entire thing. However, when it comes to steroids there is no greater example of hypocrisy and contradiction in America. Great article Grant.
by BayLife5518 on Jan 15, 2010 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Let me help you out.
Which way did you come in?
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
Barry Bonds
Better than you, no matter what you do.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
If shitty teams like the Royals weren’t willing to take a chance on a “tainted” Bonds knowing after a whole year away from baseball he’d still 1. be a better hitter than their entire lineup, and 2. he’d bring in so much revenure they could afford more good players, then I think it’s safe to assume that voters won’t want to be villified as well. Actually sickens me, for as I look up and down the list of “cheaters” on the Mitchell Report I am fairly certain none of them managed a season of hitting .370.
Bonds taking steroids to be better at baseball would be like Usain Bolt taking steroids to be faster…sadly unnecessary yet a sign of the competitive nature of the time. If year’s from now we found that Bolt started taking steroids in 2010 to remain competitive, would he not be revered as the greatest runner ever?
Matt Cain's right hand beats a Royal Flush.
by Viva Gigantes on Jan 16, 2010 6:50 AM PST up reply actions
You can say that again!
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
If shitty teams like the Royals weren’t willing to take a chance on a “tainted” Bonds knowing after a whole year away from baseball he’d still 1. be a better hitter than their entire lineup, and 2. he’d bring in so much revenure they could afford more good players, then I think it’s safe to assume that voters won’t want to be villified as well. Actually sickens me, for as I look up and down the list of “cheaters” on the Mitchell Report I am fairly certain none of them managed a season of hitting .370.
Bonds taking steroids to be better at baseball would be like Usain Bolt taking steroids to be faster…sadly unnecessary yet a sign of the competitive nature of the time. If year’s from now we found that Bolt started taking steroids in 2010 to remain competitive, would he not be revered as the greatest runner ever?
Matt Cain's right hand beats a Royal Flush.
by Viva Gigantes on Jan 16, 2010 6:50 AM PST up reply actions
I’m unclear on who you’re trying to tell me is evil and who you’re trying to tell me is righteous. But otherwise, I found this to be a quality read.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
The true evil is asbestos.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Trust me, seeing asbestos-tainted stats would take your breath away.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
meso jokes!
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 15, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
I think he's saying I'm Righteous, brother
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
You? Nah.
There’s no tenderness like before in your fingertips.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
he’s trying hard not to show it
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
But baby, baby I know it...
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
YOU'VE LOST THAT LOVIN' FEELIN'!
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
WHOOOOA THAT LOVIN' FEELIN
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Man, I never knew Kent hung out with Tom Cruise.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
When he was younger. It was a real loosey-Goosey time for him.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
Nah, it’s Lt. Dangle.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 15, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
What about the children?
There was that one kid in Texas who committed suicide after using roids. McGwire should apologize to him.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
yeah, Jack. One of my alltime fav Giants.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 15, 2010 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
/reply fail
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 15, 2010 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
The Homer Simpson philosophy of “How much and give it to me” is pretty much the norm for most people. I just want to know enough to make my decision — but my mind has already been made up. Additionally, a significant number of this group of people do not even want to waste time making up their own mind and so wait for others to guide them. Either that, or they simply don’t know that they can have an opinion all their own. Do you know how much hand-holding and reassurance college students need nowadays?
Also, Grant, great writing, as always. Jack Versitilitito deserves better and Mrs. Versitilitito is a saint. A SAINT!
I remember hearing an interview with Bob Gibson and he said he would have used steroids back when he played.
Randy Hahn: "I’ve been referred to as a playa…"
I think I heard that one too; Tim McCarver’s show, maybe?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 15, 2010 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
I don't have any witty remarks on this subject
so I will defer to Jack Clark
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Clark, the team’s big power hitter in the mid-’80s, swung a loaded metaphorical bat at McGwire and other players of his generation who have indulged in performance-enhancing drugs.
“They’re all creeps,” says Clark, who hit 340 career homers from 1976-1992.
Clark and McGwire are among those scheduled to appear at the Cardinals’ Winter Warmup this weekend at a hotel in downtown St. Louis. It’s supposed to be a feel-good get-together for fans of Cardinals past and present.
Just don’t expect two Cardinals in particular to get their bear hug on.
From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:
“I’m not even going to say hello to him.” Clark said of McGwire. “I’m not going to shake his hand.”
Well! Clark calls players such as McGwire and Alex Rodriguez(notes) “cheaters.” And that’s Clark being kind.
“A-Rod: Fake, phony,” Clark said. "Rafael Palmeiro: Fake, a phony.
“[Roger] Clemens, [Barry] Bonds: Fakes. Phonies. They don’t deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. They should all be in the Hall of Shame. They can afford to build it. They’ve all got so much money.”
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
I believe that last sentence has more to do with the orgins of Clark’s opinion than anything else.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
BINGO!
These pretzels are making me thirsty
by NuschlerFace on Jan 15, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
LOL SOUR GRAPES
They can afford to build it. They’ve all got so much money
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970511&slug=2538502
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
precisely
homer envy
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 15, 2010 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
I’ve never heard someone sound so much like Holden Caulfield.
Petey and Fresh always dunking on Spartans,
Biscuits in baskets from Heatley and Thornton,
Bam-Bam and Gore on the way to some rings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
The First Baseman in the Rye?
"Those that drink the Kool-Aid, please leave the room."
by Kitspool on Jan 15, 2010 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I love it.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
Jesus H. Christ.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Bitter bug bit him in the ass
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 15, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, Jack. One of my alltime fav Giants.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 15, 2010 11:34 PM PST up reply actions
Here’s my take: Anyone from here on out who tests positive for steroids is a villain, because they’ve seen what it has done to the game and the reputation of other players at this point. As for the past few decades, it’s not like the Giants ever won a championship, so nothing was tainted! Silver lining!
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
1989 Giants are de factor World Champs*********
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 15, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
de facto
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 15, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
de plane?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
by ringleader3 on Jan 15, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
"A foghorn blowing out wild and cold." -Dire Straits
by FriscoJoe on Jan 15, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Apologize to the Maris family?
Only if Maris’ family teams up with Babe Ruth’s family to apologize to Ned Williamson’s family for playing in a ballpark with such unfairly cozy confines (318ft LF, 314 RF)
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Maris and Ruth couldn’t help that.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
he was the architect and project manager.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 15, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
I believe he also did some welding on his off days.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
The concrete was mixed with his blood.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
And his sweat and tears
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
as I recall
The Yankees intentionally built Yankee Stadium with a short porch in RF to give Ruth more home runs, though.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
But that’s the Yankees fault. And in either case, based on what happened after that (how nobody really got close) I’m willing to bet it didn’t matter.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
Maybe not for Ruth, but it certainly mattered when it came to Maris.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Why? There were other hitter-friendly parks.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
OT Question:
Do you think the Yankees deliberately incorporated the prevailing third base breeze into the arrangement of the new stadium?
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
Maris probably doesn’t break the record if he plays in Wrigley Field. How can that not be relevant?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Braves moved the fences in for Aaron to break Ruth’s record. They conveniently moved back to where they were originally after he broke it.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
Wrigley’s pretty homer friendly, so that’s kind of an odd example. In 1961 it was significantly more batter-friendly than Yankee Stadium. (Don’t have a specific stat for LHH HRs, but still.)
Wrigley’s pretty homer friendly
and thats just the announcers! ZING!
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
by ringleader3 on Jan 15, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
I was basing my claim on the fact that the fences are around 15ft deeper than at Old Yankee Stadium. I assume that would probably eat up at least ONE home run.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Except Wrigley’s also at a higher altitude and has that wind blowing out for a good chunk of the summer. There’s just no way of knowing, really.
having lived in Chicago
The notion of elevation there is pretty hilarious. Despite having suburbs called Chicago Heights and Chicago Ridge, that place is flat as fuck.
I mean, I know it’s a fair amount above sea level, being 1,000 miles from the ocean and all. It’s just weird to think of, considering the ground-level flatness.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Flat
When my Dad came to visit me in Chicago from California, he spent the whole time commenting on how flat everything was. He couldn’t handle the lack of topography in the Chicagoland area. He recovered when I took him to Madison, but I loved it there so much that it never occurred to me that it was in fact, extremely flat.
Eliminate that pesky Dominatrix in one easy step. Step 1: Tell her you're a Cubs fan!
I don’t see how that is relevant. Albert Belle can’t help that his degenerative hip condition ruined his chances of hitting 500 home runs.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
No, he can’t. The only one in this condition who did something by his own choice to help him break the record was McGwire.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
But Belle gets penalized. He won’t get into the hall of fame because he doesnt have the numbers. Conditions matter, even when you can’t control them.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
We’re talking one guy (McGwire) who did something on his own accord to break a record set by somebody who did not have the same advantage (Maris) while the latter’s family was dragged along to watch it happen. I don’t see how Albert Belle is relevant at all.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
In McGwire’s era they also had a better understanding of nutrition and guys worked out year round. During Maris’s era guys sold washing machines in the off season.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Cleaner clothes= running faster.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 8:39 PM PST up reply actions
I’m simply trying to make the argument that the level playing field is a myth. Different people are born with different abilities and are placed in different situations with different resources available to them. To me, if you take out the whole “Drugs are bad!” narrative that exists in our society, then the differences between one “unfair” advantage and another blurs.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Maris didn’t hit against anybody using steroids. Most of the positive tests have been rendered by pitchers.
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
Maris didn’t hit against anybody using steroids.
Well, maybe. Steroids were certainly widespread in sports like track and field and possibly football by that time, and we know they were in baseball by the early ’70’s, so it’s even possible that he did…
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
I’m referring to 1961. Maris was done by the end of the 1968 season. He was hitting off guys who were loaded on greenies however, and by all accounts he was a pretty straight up guy who didn’t use them.
In any event, the point I am trying to make is that the whole steroid advantage hitter vs pitcher is a canard. More pitchers than hitters got busted with them so on average, there was little or no advantage nor disadvantage. The teams that won are the teams that should have won. The teams that lost should have lost.
Its a health issue primarily and the the only reason steroids are controversial are because unpopular people have been successful using them
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
…is a what?
Let’s not make a big canard flap about it.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
You know what's weird?
I understand everything you write. Including , the spaces between , you know , commas.
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
You know what's weird about that?
Nothing at all.
I am you before you learned to communicate effectively.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
Belle also gets penalized b/c he wasn’t media friendly (to put it mildly) – another problem with having media vote on the HOF.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 15, 2010 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
Albert Belle can’t help that his degenerative hip condition ruined his chances of hitting 500 home runs.
and if he had a hip replacement surgery his numbers would have had to be considered phony right? He would have been using the medical technology of the time to artificially enhance his performance.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 15, 2010 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Apologize to the Maris family?
Um, did anyone else notice that Mark McGwire DID apologize to the Maris family? He actually included that as part of his apology – he came out and straight up apologized to the Maris family….so….yeah, a couple of writers have blasted him saying he needs to do that….and he did. That’s one thing that bothers me so much about the issue. Facts are entirely disregarded more often than not.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
I wouldn’t say facts are disregarded on this issue more than on any other. Reporters’ relationship with facts is like a starlet’s relationship with a director: they’ll date if it’ll help their career.
I think the more controversial/ethical/difficult an issue is, and the more it gets turned into the type of circus the steroid issue has become, though, the less the facts matter, the more its about showmanship on tv or in your article or whatever. Strong parallels here between political punditry and sports “reporting”. Most issues aren’t as bad in that way, in my opinion (though still aren’t “good” by any means)…
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
That’s probably true; the more controversial something is, the more “truthiness” slips into it as people with an agenda start cherry-picking or outright fabricating facts that support their viewpoint, and reporters are more interested in stirring the pot than they are with providing an accurate and complete picture.
I didn’t follow baseball at the time, so maybe someone can enlighten me: Had the two men with large biceps not saved the game, what were the imagined consequences? Do they extend beyond a small group of people not profiting off the game as much as they’re used to?
Do they extend beyond a small group of people not profiting off the game as much as they’re used to?
No. You’ve pretty much nailed it. The game would have been fine eventually. Those two just sped up the process.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
Hockey looks like it will be fined. If the NHL could be saved, any league can be saved.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
Not in Phoenix!
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Good
That team should have never left Winnepeg.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
There's hockey here?
/moves away
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
In Phoenix they should play hockey in the summer, they’d get people in the stands just to get out of the heat!
That's why we went to the library.
Well, that and we were homeless.
Now they’re closing the libraries.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
Sometimes when I’m bored I head out to the closest Barnes and Noble or Borders and just read in the cafe. I like reading new, clean books that are unsoiled by the hands of the wretched public. Also, I like the atmosphere. And coffee and pastries.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
“Goddammit, there’s coffee and pastry all OVER these books!”
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Actually, despite the best efforts of Jim Balsillie, the Coyotes are actually building back up a fanbase after it had been all but destroyed by the relocation proceedings over the summer. Having a competent coach (no matter how much he likes the trap) tends to do that. Hockey works there, just not with Wayne Gretzky as coach.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
We’d all be watching that weird Finnish version of the game.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
I'm still confused
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJX6Psd2Yzw
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Baseball would not have been saved.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
Baseball would be dead now. We’d be talking about cricket and McGwire would be at the corner of Van Ness and Market wearing a sandwich board for the Persian Rug Depot’s going out of business blow-out sale.
I'm up... everyone move in!
by NastySlurve on Jan 15, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
Why is it those rug places are ALWAYS going out of business? The one down the street from me was going out of business for like 7 freaking years.
Maybe they're all quite philosophical
I mean, they’ll all die eventually, so they’re going out of business. Right?
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 15, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
and
I am not that inclined to buy something from a place with signs screaming “GOING OUT OF BUSINESS!!!”. I’m not flying to Ankara for a refund.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 15, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
And the Giants never winning a World Series while Barry Bonds destroyed pitchers is a complete tragedy. How the hell did that happen?
GAME 6
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
MAY I HAVE THE GAMEBALL ON MY WAY OUT?
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
D':
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
WHO IS TO BLAME IN WHAT COUNTRY?
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
Flagged
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
PITCHFORKS N' TORCHES R US
Petey and Fresh always dunking on Spartans,
Biscuits in baskets from Heatley and Thornton,
Bam-Bam and Gore on the way to some rings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
shame on you, pika
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 12:07 AM PST up reply actions
Anaheim juicers better than our juicers.
Also, grit! And their best reliever’s arm wasn’t shredded.
by Every6thDay on Jan 15, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
ROB NEN SHOULD HAVE USED BETTER ROIDS!!!!!
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Jan 15, 2010 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
FELIX RODRIGUEZ SHOULD HAVE LEARNED TO THROW AN EFFECTIVE SLIDER
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 15, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
Is mixing in one stinkin’ chaneup too much to ask for?
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
How come it felt like Tim Salmon was the greatest slugger ever for like, a week, but I’d never heard of him before that World Series and I haven’t heard about him since? WHERE THE HELL DID TIM SALMON GO??!
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 8:49 PM PST up reply actions
Upstream to spawn more hellish Angels and die?
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, but McGwire would have still hit 70 home runs after the point where he was almost physically out of the game because he’s just that damn gifted.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
So should McGwire get credit only for the home runs he hit off of juiced pitchers?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
How is this relevant?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
Because in that situation, the playing field is level, correct? Or do you criticize McGwire solely on a “Just Say No” drug morality basis?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
What does that have to do with anything I said that you responded to? I’m confused.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
Your stance is that McGwire’s record was tainted due to the use of steroids which gave him an unfair advantage over his contemporaries, as well as the previous record holders, correct?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
In another comment. With this one I’m just saying that his claim that steroids didn’t help him hit 73 home runs way past his prime is ridiculous.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
He could have, probably. But there’s almost no chance that he would have, I’d imagine.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
First MLB player suspended for steroids
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Yeah, but this argument still doesn’t make much sense. It’s possible that without extra help, Sanchez wouldn’t have made it out of Triple-A.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Well, yes
Although I don’t think we have a timeline on Sanchez’s use of steroids.
I’m just always amused by that, because a lot of people seem think that, if you take steroids, you turn into Barry Bonds.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
seriously, though, the thing that always bothered me with the steroid debate re: McGwire
Long ago, he said he used andro. Nobody really cared that much. Then, at the suggestion he may have used illegal steroids, people freake out. Of course, andro was legal at the time, but 99% of the freakout over steroids in baseball isn’t about the legalities – it’s about The Sanctity Of Records. If the problem with PEDs is that they violate the sanctity of records, isn’t it just as bad to use a PED that’s legal as one that’s illegal?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Jan 15, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep. This is an important part of it.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
I hate the “Sanctity of Records” stuff. Anybody with a brain can contextualize numbers and records without having to have their hand held. Stop crying and use your brains, babies. You don’t even have to use a lot of it. Just the part that tells you things have context.
And I agree with your larger point, as well.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
Yup, even a kid can get why 511 wins is from a “different” game. I suspect people will do the same with the steroid era numbers, or from the soon-to-come Bionic Era, Nanotech Era, Gene Splicing Era, or Fighting Suit Gundam Era.
I'm up... everyone move in!
by NastySlurve on Jan 15, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Fighting Suit Gundam Era.
I am really looking forward to this era.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
Barry Bonds III did it on Stem Cells and Lasik !
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Barry Bonds XIX did it on ocular implants and frog genes!
I'm up... everyone move in!
by NastySlurve on Jan 15, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
/mates with self
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
by jhiat00 on Jan 15, 2010 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Did you offend your significant other?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
He just used the other hand.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
Other significant hand
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
That hand is of little significance.
OTOH…
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
The Giants have won the Colony Series!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Me too. Ballpark dimensions changed, length of season changed, height of pitchers mound changed, ball changed, color lines changed, greenies, red juice, humidors, astrocrap, WWII skewed players stats…. sheeeesh….
Oh hell and I forgot lasiks, tommy john surgery and all the othe rmedical advances that give players an advantage and/or longer carreer.
Or simply a more nutritious clubhouse spread.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
acid!
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 15, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sure y'all have seen this before...
…but fuck it, it’s awesome.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
I’m sick and tired of stats unless they are acronyms that I don’t know and that can mathmatically explain why Fred Lewis isn’t clutch
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 8:56 PM PST up reply actions
You’re right. But legality serves as the convenient moral benchmark if you’re not willing to think about more than one shade of gray. This debate really hasn’t matured to that point yet. At the root of it, the benchmark seems to be about legal/illegal and what that means.
I'm up... everyone move in!
by NastySlurve on Jan 15, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
I also think “the clear” was legal until all the balco stuff went down.
by microwave donut on Jan 15, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
premature postulation.
Anyway, I agree that nopbody seemed to care about the andro thing. At the same time you can’t fully count on players to not use legal means to gain an advantage.
If you could buy andro at GNC, how is everyone supposed to know it’s worse than buying creatine, or even protein powder?
The balco stuff is a bit of a different situation. I think someone could honestly think andro was just a weaker or safer muscle building supplement than traditional steroids (which it probably was), hence it’s legality. Balco stuff wasn’t illegal because people didn’t know about it yet.
by microwave donut on Jan 15, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
It’s legality seems to be a gray area, at best.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
it really is amazing how the word “steroid” changes everything. As though if you call something a “steroid” it makes it fundamentally different than any kind of other chemical supplement.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 15, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
As an asthmatic, I took steroids regularly for years.
I was listening to radio the other day, and Murph and Mac seemed astonished to learn that steroids are used medically. Ummm… guys… steroids are used medically A LOT. Your cat has probably taken steroids medically.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
Why do I miss so many articles when I post things here? It’s like my typing skill declines twice as hard as my editing skill.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
I got poison oak really bad in 6th grade. They gave me steroids for it.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
/bans SF Pete from MCC HOF
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
SANGTITY OF TEH BLOG!
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Just for the facts, let’s note that there are steroids and there are anabolic steroids. I got non-ananolic steroids when I got mono….so yeah, there’s a definite difference there. Anabolic steroids can be prescribed for medical purposes, too. I firmly believe they should be used under a doctors supervision for recovery….what good does it do to watch our favorite athletes not play because they’re injured?
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
I was just going to mention that. But now you did it for me.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
how do they think baseball players obtained these steroids? A lot of them were bought from people who had been prescribed them for medical use.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 15, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
My name is Paul LoDuca.
Now please shoot me before I infect this sacred sport.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
Someone I work with got all freaked out cuz her doctor wanted to put her on steroids for some medical condition. She was all spazzing that she’d get big muscles…. want to spend a frustrating 20 minutes??? try explaining the difference between anabolic and the cortisoney type steroids to a ditz.
Man.
I mean, haven’t these people EVER been to the doctor?
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
back in the old days this woman would have been left on a hillside for the coyotes as an infant, so as not to contaminate the gene pool.
Moses did it in a raft built out of woven reeds!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
Daniel did it in the lion’s den!
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Ezekiel did it in the mountains with only ravens as his companions!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I still can’t believe that guy won Top Chef.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 15, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
Col. Mustard
did it in the Conservatory with the Pipe.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 15, 2010 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
They’ll never know if they have lupus or not.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
It's just as well
What does House prescribe for lupus? Steroids.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Well, this is wack. We all know it was Cal Ripken, Jr. who saved the game.
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
corned beef?
Petey and Fresh always dunking on Spartans,
Biscuits in baskets from Heatley and Thornton,
Bam-Bam and Gore on the way to some rings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
You’re corned beef
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Goofus knows that, sure. The rest of us?
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Speaking of people who took PEDs to extend their career….
"Those that drink the Kool-Aid, please leave the room."
Steroids really would have helped keep on the field everyday….so….yeah.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
Greg Vaughn
Kind of Hung Around For A Few Weeks Whilst Game Was Saved. Does not get italics.
I'm up... everyone move in!
Old Timers
I think racism gave pre-Jackie Robinson players as big of an advantage as steroids gave modern players.
by sfgiantsrule24 on Jan 15, 2010 11:48 AM PST reply actions
And was a hell of a lot more offensive and morally wrong.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
I REALLY wish I could go back in time and watch a few Negro League games.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
This is the one that always makes me wonder
I know that Josh Gibson would have been fantastic to see in MLB, but I always wonder what Paige’s numbers would have looked like.
The baseball Satanist
If I had read that three years ago, I would have thought “yeah, too bad we’ll never know”.
I read this, and literally the first thing that came to mind was “hmm, I guess we could calculate the average aging curve for pitchers in the 1930’s-1950’s, take Paige’s MLB numbers, adjust for the fact that he was a reliever during most of that time, and then use the aging curve to estimate the numbers he would have put up in his peak .”
I was promised lasagna.
If you’re interested, over at the Hall of Merit project on BBTF, they’ve attempted to create some MLEs for a lot of the greatest NgL players, including Paige, Gibson, Charleston, Bell, etc. There are some issues with them, of course, but it’s really interesting work.
And just TRY not to crap your pants when you see Gibson’s MLE. Good lord.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
A most worthy endeavor
“… Hall of Merit project on BBTF”
That and Bill James seminal “Whatever Happened To The Hall of Fame”
The BBWAA voting members should be ashamed of themselves.
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
I always wanted to see Rube Foster pitch
He was an animal as well as a brilliant coach.
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting
So Josh Gibson has a case for best player in the history of baseball.
With Paige, tough, we can use actual MLB numbers, which would make it much more accurate.
I was promised lasagna.
I would be mildly interested in such an endeavor. It wouldn’t be anywhere near actually seeing his actual numbers from actually playing in the actual major leagues, though.
The baseball Satanist
But seriously, how sad is it that guys like that aren’t even thought of in conversations about the games greatest players. I don’t know if they were or weren’t, but the fact that they’re completely out fo the conversation because they weren’t even allowed to play out of racism is sad and outrageous, something steroids can’t even begin to measure up to.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
I just finished Only The Ball Was White, a sort of survey about the history of the Negro Leagues and it’s just fascinating (and horribly sad) to think of all of these incredible players who never had a real chance to show the world how great they are. You can approximate and guess, but even that is difficult because a lot of players’ careers progressed in ways that they probably wouldn’t have if they’d been in the majors their whole career (ie pitchers switching to the outfield at some point during their career, playing almost year-round, etc). It’s just a tragedy, really (far more of a tragedy than the home run record being broken by steroid users, imo)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yeah
Because the color barrier was an actual tragedy while the steroid fiasco was not at all.
The baseball Satanist
Which is why
rather than having a special wing for “Negro” players in the HOF, there should be a special wing for the white players who played prior to full integration—1957 when the Red Sox reluctantly brought up Pumpsie Green from the minors.
The HOF is nothing but a bullshit mainstream-overthehill-sportsreporters-popularity contest. Of the three major sports HOFs, MLBs is the biggest joke and has become so due to the jackasses who run the admissions
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
People always say that but I don’t find that to be really true. Historically even AFTER the breaking of the color barrier there hasn’t been a lot of great black pitchers. So how exactly did they have such a huge advantage? Maybe some of the pitchers would have had a harder time pitching to great black sluggers, but that wouldn’t have effected guys like Ruth, DiMaggio, Gehrig, Williams etc.
I can count on one hand the number of great black pitchers…..Paige, Blue, Newcombe, Stewart and Jenkins. Oh and Rube Foster. So that’s six, I guess I have a mutant hand. But still, that’s not very many. This so called advantage is bullshit. There are advantages and disadvantages to ANY era.
players mentioned in this string played defense too
but I agree with your last sentence.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 16, 2010 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
Careful.
That’s like someone in the ‘90s saying "Doug Williams, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Steve McNair. That’s not many at all! Therefore, blacks don’t make good quarterbacks! And I only needed four fingers! You can use my pinkie for Rube Foster."
Just because white talent evaluators automatically file black players into the “Runs Fast” category and stick them in the outfield (or at wide receiver) doesn’t mean they wouldn’t make for good pitchers. Or are you saying that the Negro Leagues batting stats are inflated because all the pitchers sucked? Good luck with that.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
Where is the historical evidence that supports white talent evaluators throwing really talented black pitchers into the outfield? I’m guessing that teams that actually had the good foresight and humanity to acquire talented baseball players and looked past the color of their skin weren’t going to then force them to make a position change because “black people are too dumb to pitch”.
Well, as I said above, the color line in football was broken a hell of a long time before the color line at QB was broken. So right there you have white talent evaluators deciding that blacks wouldn’t make decision-makers on the field.
Don’t try and push this idea that teams “actually had the good foresight and humanity to acquire good baseball players and look past the color of their skin.” It was those same teams that perpetuated the color line in the first place, and the fact that Branch Rickey broke it didn’t make those retrograde owners any less racist. If they actually had possessed a modicum of “good foresight and humanity,” we wouldn’t be having this discussion because the Majors wouldn’t have been segregated in the first place.
More to the point, where is your historical evidence that black people can’t pitch, and why would you really want to defend that claim?
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 17, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
This is a car crash in the making.
/pulls up lawn chair
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 17, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
It really is.
I feel kinda bad for rephrasing his(?) words in the worst possible way, but… I mean… when you boil it down, that is essentially his argument, right?
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 17, 2010 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
WTF?
AFTER the breaking of the color barrier there hasn’t been a lot of great black pitchers.
Well maybe you can explain that to Sam Jones, Rueben Gomez, Bob Gibson, Doc Gooden, Blue Moon Odom, CC Sabathia, Tom Gordon, and these are just guys off the top of my head in about 60 seconds that I saw personally pitch here in the Bay Area.
There’s fewer black pitchers now simply because there are fewer black players in general thanks to the importation of cheap foreign labor from the Caribbean and Latin and South America
by E Ticket on Jan 16, 2010 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
Totally blanked on Gibson, and Gooden. I didn’t sleep a wink last night, however the point remains that there have been far less successful black pitchers throughout history. I don’t buy this whole they were moved to the OF thing either. There are only a couple negro league pitching stars that we’ve ever heard of, but plenty of positional players who were legendary. And it’s not a racial thing, just for whatever reason that was the case. Meanwhile, there have been a lot more Latin American pitching stars. It’s even hard to argue that had to do with them being able to play pre-color barrier. Again why that is, I have no idea.
To punish pre-color barrier players for playing in an “uneven playing field” is unfair to those players because they had no control over the environment in which they played in. Most instances they were signed as teenagers away from the wheat and corn fields to play a game that they loved, and which would pay them better than farm life would.
Oh please
if the players wanted baseball to be integrated, they could have gotten it integrated.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
It’s not punishment, it’s just looking at numbers in their proper context.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by taking other factors into account
you are, indirectly, saying Player X, in a vaccuum, has better numbers than Player Y, but because of Factors A, B, and C, Player Y had the better career. so while mainstream people would still think Player X is better, some would be aware that actually Player Y had a better career
I really don’t understand the argument against looking at things in context. This is not a punishment. This is an evaluation.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Context is bad. The less context we can use to look at things, the better. It’s like you’ve never read a single thing I’ve said about this ever.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 19, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
jponry is actually The Punisher in real life.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 17, 2010 4:43 PM PST up reply actions
Then I have some advice for her
If anyone wants to make a movie of your life, say no. Comic books are okay, though.
The baseball Satanist
Also, we may never know much about the greatest Negro League pitchers, because many of them didn’t just pitch, they also played the field on the days they weren’t pitching and so on. But even so, there are certainly more than just “a couple” who were thought of as being pretty good. I mean, there are 11 NgL pitchers in the Hall of Fame and there are several more who seem more than worthy of consideration.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
First off all, you only forgot the best pitcher in the history of baseball.
Second, and much more importantly, people always put the line at segregation – 1947, Jackie Robinson, etc. But that line only makes sense from a historical or moral point of view. From a baseball point of view, we’re not necessarily thinking about segregation, we’re thinking about one thing – the talent pool. And the talent pool was significantly smaller 60 years ago – because of segregation, and because there were very few Latino players, and because Asian players were unheard of. The vast, vast majority of MLB players 60 years ago were white and American. Today white Americans are just 60% of MLB. It doesn’t matter how many of those were pitchers – it’s about the quality of the competition. Imagine if you got rid of those 40%, if you took Ichiro, Jeter, Sandoval, Manny Ramirez, Hanley Ramirez, Felix Hernandez, Cabrera, Santana, Sabathia, Fielder, Matsui – and hundreds of other players, ranging from great to bad, and replaced every single one of them with a AAA scrub. Wouldn’t the white guys left suddenly look much better than they are?
Or, here’s a better way to illustrate my point:
Here is a list of center fielders who were better than Aaron Rowand in 2009:
Franklin Gutierrez
Matt Kemp
Mike Cameron
Michael Bourn
Denard Span
Torii Hunter
Nate McLouth
Shane Victorino
Curtis Granderson
B.J. Upton
Marlon Byrd
Colby Rasmus
Kosuke Fukudome
Grady Sizemore
Adam Jones
Now, here is a list of non-black, American center fielders who were better than Aaron Rowand in 2009:
Shane Victorino
Colby Rasmus
Grady Sizemore
Magic! Even I was surprised how extreme the change is – make this a white, American league again, and Aaron Rowand is an All Star. And even if a few of the guys who would replace the players we got rid of turned out to somehow be better than Rowand (even though most of them would be today’s 5th out fielders and AAAA players), he would still be a very good CF – top 7 or 8 at the lowest.
So it’s not about whether or not there were many black pitchers, or great black pitchers – if you replace 40% of the league with crappy players, everyone else will look a hell of a lot better. That doesn’t mean that DiMaggio or Ruth weren’t incredibly fantastic, fantastically incredible players, because they obviously were. But pretending that they didn’t benefit from playing in a near homogeneous league is silly.
I was promised lasagna.
by Cookyman on Jan 16, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
make this a white, American league again, and Aaron Rowand is an All Star
OMG. Sabean is really Bull Conner LOL
Seriously, though, that is a list that illustrates how much damage stereotypes and old wives tales can actually cause. The ignorance it breeds in people who have the capacity to know better.
Really well thought out and no small of time put into this.
Thanks man.
by E Ticket on Jan 16, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
It should be noted, though, that this doesn’t necessarily mean that the talent level is higher now than it was in the 1940’s. There are a lot of other factors, like expansion – there are 14 more teams now than in 1949. That means 350 players have been added. So some guy who was the worst player in 1949 would have only been the 351st worst player if the expansion had happened sooner. And the bottom 45% of today’s pitchers wouldn’t be playing without expansion – who knows what would have happened if Bonds had faced only the top 55%. Maybe he only hits 685. Who knows (my guess: he admits he was just hitting from the left side to make it a bit more interesting, and ends up with 980 career HR’s).
I was promised lasagna.
Oh the talent level is much higher now on a comparative basis (from now to then) with guys being faster, stronger, better trained, and better treated. You ever see film of Walter Johnson? The guy would be hard pressed to start on a junior college team 100 years later (even if he wasn’t 122 years old). One only need look at the progression of the 100 meter record for a simple illustration of athletic evolution.
So the 349th guy in 1949 is unlikely to even be a AAAA player if he was to somehow magically enter a time machine and plop down at Scottsdale Stadium 12 weeks from now. (Sabean wouldn’t consider him old enough or gritty enough)
But on a relative basis, you are correct simply because there are 30 MLB teams now vs 16, everything else being equal. I think that’s your point. Thats why I favor contraction all the way back to the original sixteen that were around when I was growing up. Eliminate the expansion teams
Houston
San Diego
Anaheim
Seattle
Texas
Kansas City
Washington
Toronto
Florida
Colorado
Tampa
Milwaukee
Arizona
Mets
I just don’t see a whole lot from those teams that I would have missed if they had not been in existence. Ryan, Johnson, would have pitched for non-expansion teams.
We would never have been exposed to the likes of guys like Aaron Rowand, Barry Zito, Edgar Renteria, Edgardo Alfonso getting multi-year contracts..
The possibilities are endless.
by E Ticket on Jan 16, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
There are roughly twice as many people living in the US now than 1950. Without any additional talent being tapped world wide, which has been done, the worst available player in either league is likely about the same.
Contraction to 16 teams to bring the talent level back to what it was is silly.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Yeah, that's kind of a bad idea
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 16, 2010 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
Grady Sizemore is actually half black.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I hear Harry Reid is impressed with his dialect, too.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 17, 2010 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
And yeah, it’s also important to note that it’s not just African-American pitchers who would have been kept out of baseball pre-integration – it’s also all dark-skinned Latinos, which would include people like Pedro Martinez and Juan Marichal, etc
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
It’s really kind of sad – Black People Can’t Pitch is all baseball segregationists had left, but Pedro Martinez just had to go and be the best pitcher in history.
Fun fact: in 1949, the Red Sox had a deal with the Birmingham Black Barons that allowed them to acquire any player they wanted for almost nothing. They heard about this 18 y-o CF who could do everything , and sent a scout to check him out. But, the weather was bad, and the scout decided “it wasn’t worth waiting through a stretch of rainy weather to scout any black player”. Mays ended up signing with the Giants instead.
I was promised lasagna.
too bad
he could have roomed in Pawtucket with Pumpsie Green.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 16, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
I dont know, I was more impressed with Bob Gibson and Tom Seaver, on an observational judgement level, although it is close, but maybe that’s because I was younger. Either way, they were all great.
If Lincecum keeps it up, they may have to lower the ground to below sea level and back to 76 feet before all is said and done.
by E Ticket on Jan 16, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
All three were insane, obviously.
The one thing about Martinez, though, is that, as great as he looked, and as amazing as his stats are, it’s almost impossible not to underrate him, because it’s easy to forget he did it all in the most offense-friendly era in baseball history, in a hitters’ park. Same with Randy Johnson, for that matter (in his Arizona days). Guys like Gibson and Koufax were incredible, but they also got to pitch in real pitcher-friendly environments.
I was promised lasagna.
I agree that the talent pool was considerably smaller, but really if everyone had been allowed to play how would that have changed things? The great players are great no matter what, skin color doesn’t matter. All that would have been affected is the mediocre players who probably shouldn’t have had MLB careers in the first place. Having other great hitters in the league of different skin color won’t effect the white hitters. Even then with an influx of some better pitching talent, I have a hard time believing that it would cause tons of problems for the great white hitters. Great hitters can hit great pitching. The really talented, great players would be good regardless.
The great players are great no matter what, skin color doesn’t matter.
Well, no. Great is a relative term. I just showed you that if MLB didn’t have any foreign or black players, Shane Victorino would be the best CF in the NL, and therefore, by most definitions, a “great” player. That’s not to say that DiMaggio wasn’t better than Victorino. Just shows that you can’t really judge a player without being aware of the competition.
You seem to be saying that great hitters aren’t affected by the quality of the pitchers they face, which just can’t be true. Are great pitchers also not affected by the quality of the hitters they face? Because that would create quite a paradox – what happens when a great hitter and a great pitcher meet? Do they both win?
Everything in baseball is relative. Hitting .300 is good because few players can do it. If a lot of people could do it, it wouldn’t be considered good anymore – .350 would be good. The only way to judge players is to compare them to their peers. Otherwise it’s all meaningless. Bonds hit 73 HR’s! So? Is that good in vacuum? On a scale of 0 to infinity, 73 is pretty damn low. No, it’s amazing, because no one else has hit more than 70, and because 99.999% of players will never even reach 35.
What you’re basically saying is that if we added a bunch of really good hitters, that wouldn’t affect Bonds. He’d still hit 73 HR’s. And this is true (though I again remind you that a decent amount of pitchers today are either black, Hispanic, or East Asian). And even if 20 of those hitters would hit 80 HR’s every year, that wouldn’t affect Bonds – he’d still have that 73. And that’s also true. But what does that 73 mean? It used to be amazing, now it’s just pretty good. It can’t be amazing if 20 other players beat it every year. Even if DiMaggio’s AVG wouldn’t have suffered from desegregation (and I still don’t understand why you think it wouldn’t), it’s what that AVG was worth that would have changed. Maybe he’d still hit .380, but it would only be 6th highest in the majors. Maybe he’d SLG the same, but 8 other CF would SLG better. I’m using extreme and unlikely examples here just to make the point – performance can’t be separated from context.
I was promised lasagna.
Also
Since, as jponry has mentioned, Sizemore is half black, Victorino wouldn’t be the best CF in the NL – he’d be the best CF in the majors.
And now that I think about it, even including Victorino is arguable at best: during the first 90 years after the founding of the National League (1876-1966), there had been a total of 3 native Hawaiians in MLB baseballs. 3 players in 90 years. Compare that to 13 different Hawaiians we’ve seen in the majors just in the past 10 years.
I was promised lasagna.
Lolwut?
You do know that Hawaii wasn’t even officially a territory of the U.S. until 1898, right?
That’s got to be as much due to a lack of accessibility and a tiny population as anything else, though, don’t you think?
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 17, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe, but that doesn’t really matter from our point of view. Again, we’re talking talent pool, not segregation.
I was promised lasagna.
We are? Oh. So you’re saying that if the pre-Jackie conditions (both racism and otherwise) were in place, Shane Victorino would never have been discovered? OK, I can get behind that.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 17, 2010 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
SHIFT A
Has anyone done the RUTH DID IT ON HOT DOGS AND BEER joke yet? If not, I throw my hat into the ring.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
I did a variant on it above.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
How dare you!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jan 15, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
Has anybody pointed out yet that the amusing part of that joke is that, of course, beer was an illegal substance in this country for the vast majority of Ruth’s career? If not, I volunteer.
(Cocaine, on the other hand was perfectly legal and wildly popular amongst the affluent, but somehow BABE RUTH DID IT ON HOT DOGS AND BLOW just hasn’t struck the same chord for some reason.)
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Jan 15, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
No, I have pointed it out to people many times.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Jan 15, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
BUT TIM RAINES U SLID HEAD FIRST TO PROTEKT UR COKE! NO HALL 4 U!
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
The coke rep doesn't help.
But I really think the bigger thing holding Tim Raines back is the fact that he was an Expo, and the BBWA (especially all the retrograde non-intertube-trustin’ types) couldn’t give two shits about stats, players, or teams north of the border.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
Has anyone pointed out the rumor the Babe used to drink “sheep testosterone”, thinking it was essentially a performance enhancer yet?
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
BABE RUTH DID IT ON HOT DOGS AND BLOW
Is that what they called hookers back then?
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
It’s really not that hard of an issue. Steroids have been in baseball since at least the early ’70’s. There are already guys in the HoF that used steroids – Canseco has alluded to as much, and given that the scumbag has usually been pretty accurate, it’s a pretty good bet. Other illegal substances have been around for much longer – if legality is your concern, you can’t ignore them. If a level playing field is your concern, you should be a hell of a lot more outraged over an entire race not being allowed to play pre-Jackie Robinson. You also have to consider the effects of pitchers using. Meanwhile, Bud Selig and his cronies made tons of money off steroids, and there’s tons of evidence they knew what was going on the whole time, aided the steroid use by such methods as having team doctors talk to players about using them effectively, AND built a marketing machine around steriods and home runs. Writers knew – there are stories of guys spilling their needles around the cluhouse and such, so even if the writers didn’t see, they should have known. Did I mention Andro was completey legal when McGwire took it?
Meanwhile, they likely juiced the balls, improved training, conditioning and nutrition definitely helps players last longer….
The bottom line is the issue is ridiculous. Talk about asterisks and keeping players out of the HoF ignores all reason, ignores baseball history, ignores the role of all the others who are essentially accomplices in the crime (be it Selig, owners, writers, or even other “clean” players), and just completely lacks merit whatsoever. It’s a stupid issue, but without it, the Holy Writers of the BBWAA wouldn’t have anything to write about to desperately try to save their jobs….so yeah, this is what we get.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 11:59 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Canseco has alluded to as much, and given that the scumbag has usually been pretty accurate
Wasn’t Conseco right about pretty much everything he wrote about? I’m not going to defend him but what is it about him that makes him a scumbag? I don’t care either way about him I just wonder why people hate him so much.
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
by jhiat00 on Jan 15, 2010 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
In 2005 when Canseco posited that ~85% of players were taking ’roids, I recall that he was dismissed by the media and others as a kook. But he was probably accurate.
I dunno, I think that’s probably exaggerated, but he was clearly right that it was a lot more widespread than people were willing to accept.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
What about Ozzie?
I admit I hate Jose, even though he was right about 85% of what he wrote, but if steroids worked why did Ozzie Canseco suck?
Don't give him the game ball Dusty, you'll jinx it...
by The Neuschler on Jan 15, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
Because the dirty truth is while steroids probably help, they probably don’t turn a non-talent into a talent like some would like to believe….
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
/cancels order of HGH from dentist in FL.
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Ha, it’s funny because HGH doesn’t do shit. At least anabolic steroids make you stronger, HGH doesn’t even do that effectively.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
Hey you’re not a fan, you’re actually the real Barry Bonds. Sorry, steroids and HGH knowledge gave you away.
Don't give him the game ball Dusty, you'll jinx it...
by The Neuschler on Jan 15, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
Caffeine is the only proven performance enhancer.
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Except in bed.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
PUJOLS DID IT ON GATORADE AND FIVE-HOUR ENERGY
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:03 PM PST up reply actions
Triple doses of 5-hour energy.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on Jan 16, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Seems simple enough for HoF voters
Since it’s unknowable that any player who has played since the 70’s was or was not clean (other than those actually testing positive or admitting to PED use), you can either throw the steroid argument out of your thought process OR you can decide to NOT vote for anyone who played ball during the so-called “steroid” era. Trying to do the in-between thing (“hey, I think Bonds did steroids, but Ken Griffey Jr is clean…I just know it!”) is an asinine way to vote.
In my mind, not voting for anyone in this era is a non-starter. You might as well close the hall down until MLB gets a serious testing policy in place…and that shouldn’t happen.
How about this – HoF voters base their votes on a player’s career performance, and how that performance applies both in his era and historically with others who played the same position (aka, how it’s always been done). And we non-voters can argue the merits of players inducted during the steroid era, just as we argue the merits of dead-ball hitters, players who played during the segregated era, and that period of time when hitters didn’t have to face a fresh arm in the seventh, eight and ninth innings.
There’s no crime in allowing spirited debate amongst the fans. How about the voters treat us like adults instead of feeling the need to “protect” us?
I do feel bad for the clean players who may have never gotten a fair run in the major leagues due to steroid use amongst their peers. I don’t feel as bad for the clean players who got more than just a cup of coffee in the major leagues and didn’t become stars, or the clean upper level players who were not quite hall-of-fame worthy. If PEDs were as prevalent in the league as it appears, then these players were most likely complicit in protecting the cheaters. Losing out on the Hall of Fame or a longer (or more lucrative) career is the tradeoff IMO.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
by otis29 on Jan 15, 2010 12:04 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'll just say
If Barry Bonds is not a first ballot hall of famer, I will be
PISST
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
I’m actually expecting him not to be.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
It does.
But, hey, if some jackass will leave Rickey Henderson off to protest steroids or protect Tom Seaver’s highest-percentage ballot record, you gotta expect it here. Barry will get in soon enough.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
This is cool.
Scroll down B/R’s Bonds stats page to “Similarities By Age”
39. Willie Mays
40. Willie Mays
41. Willie Mays
42. Willie Mays
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
My Favorite
For Satchel Paige, age 46 – Jesse Orosco. Paige was one of the better reliever in the game in his last season. Orosco had a 7.75 ERA in 34 IP. That’s the closest match they could find, in 120 years of baseball.
Satchel Paige > You.
I was promised lasagna.
Why do you suppose they clanked it like that?
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
There just aren’t many 46 year olds in baseball.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Dammit...
/stamps foot
…there should be!
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
don't forget his time in Miami
not a bad line for ages 49-54.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 16, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
A hall of fame without the career leaders in hits and home runs isn’t a museum about baseball.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
I can honestly say there is no chance I will visit a HoF that leaves guys out for steroid reasons.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
I probably will but that’s just because I’ve always wanted to go. I’ll be all grumpy and complaining about it though. Probably ruin some 8 year old’s good time by trying to explain whey the HOF isn’t really the HOF.
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Ha, yeah I guess I could see myself going and berating some 80 year old tour guide….and then pissing on the Bonds 756 ball exhibit.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
As much as I love baseball, I truly have no desire to visit the hall of fame.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
You can put me and a lot of other people who have been around for awhile in this category. Its a farce. It is a hall of hypocrisy.
by E Ticket on Jan 16, 2010 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
We need a Steroid Baseball Hall of Fame. Build it next to the old one, but make it bigger!
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
- rimshot -
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 17, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
There is literally zero chance he is
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Well, not literally.
But essentially, yeah.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
Nah
it’s pretty literal
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
This is semantics.
Obviously it is by definition NOT literal, as he will be on the ballot, and thus has a technical chance of election. Pete Rose has literally no chance of being elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame on the first ballot. Herschel Walker. Imelda Marcos. Me. But Barry? It’s definitely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, possible. Not gonna happen, of course, but possible.
But you knew that.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 17, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
Nah, it's literal. There is LITERALLY NO CHANCE
/egging you on
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
"Level playing field"
/considers Minute Maid Park
/head splodes
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 12:07 PM PST reply actions
/runs it up flagpole
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
/sees who salutes (but no one ever does)
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
which amuses me
almost as much as the people who think they’re being patriotic by flying their tattered, faded American flag in driving rainstorms.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 15, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
ha! Think of all those auto dealerships with their patriotic ads in the Sunday papers, now being used to line bird cages!!!
They must hate our troops
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
Park Factors for HRs
MLB Park Factors – 2009
RK PARK NAME
1 Yankee Stadium (New York, NY)
2 Angel Stadium of Anaheim (Anaheim, California)
3 Rangers Ballpark in Arlington (Arlington, Texas)
4 U.S. Cellular Field (Chicago, Illinois)
5 Oriole Park at Camden Yards (Baltimore, Maryland)
6 Great American Ball Park (Cincinnati, Ohio)
7 Land Shark Stadium (Miami, Florida)
8 Mall of America Field (Minneapolis, Minnesota)
9 Coors Field (Denver, Colorado)
10 Miller Park (Milwaukee, Wisconsin)
11 Minute Maid Park (Houston, Texas)
12 Citi Field (New York, NY)
13 PNC Park (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania)
14 Chase Field (Phoenix, Arizona)
15 Wrigley Field (Chicago, Illinois)
16 Citizens Bank Park (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)
17 Rogers Centre (Toronto, Ontario)
18 Comerica Park (Detroit, Michigan)
19 Nationals Park (Washington, D.C.)
20 AT&T Park (San Francisco, California)
21 Fenway Park (Boston, Massachusetts)
22 Tropicana Field (St. Petersburg, Florida)
23 Oakland Coliseum (Oakland, California)
24 Safeco Field (Seattle, Washington)
25 Dodger Stadium (Los Angeles, California)
26 Turner Field (Atlanta, Georgia)
27 Kauffman Stadium (Kansas City, Missouri)
28 Busch Stadium (St. Louis, Missouri)
29 Petco Park (San Diego, California)
30 Progressive Field (Cleveland, Ohio)
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Any list that shows Fenway as a pitchers’ park is essentially useless.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jan 15, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
That’s just for HRs. For runs overall, Fenway is the 8th best park for hitters. The New Yankee Stadium is ranked pretty low for runs overall, surprisingly.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
small OF?
not a lot of non-HR XBHs?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Land Shark Stadium. Hard to imagine there’s a place called Land Shark Stadium.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
It should have a statue of Chevy Chase in a shark costume out in front.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
“Flowers.”
“Candygram.”
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
I liked Todd Wright's Rule
Paraphrasing from memory here: You get ONE shot to name your stadium. ONE. That’s what it’s called, no matter which corporation takes over the rights. Hence: Joe Robbie Stadium, the Metrodome, the Skydome, Enron Field, etc. And PacBell Park, of course.
"Those that drink the Kool-Aid, please leave the room."
But then some fans would be stuck with names like Petco Park.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:14 PM PST up reply actions
What is the job of a baseball player, or professional athlete?
That’s the question I think we need to be asking. It seems to me that their job is to entertain us. At least that is the thing they give us. And in the grand scheme of things, that’s not all that different than a movie star. Movie stars do things that enhance their performances, things that make them more entertaining. They have plastic surgery. They eat unhealthy for certain parts. Is it unfair that one gets a nose job so that she gets the part while another can’t afford it and doesn’t?
Look, I realize the difference between the two. All I’m suggesting is that these men entertain us. And it seems to me that during that era, they were quite entertaining to a lot of folks. Was it really that wrong to enhance their performance? Isn’t that what we want of them?
I know “we have to think of the children!,” but do you condemn movie stars who get boob jobs? Would you condone that for your daughter?
"Liberal is to the media what the 2008 San Francisco Giants are to good baseball."
-My Father.
by thecrippesking on Jan 15, 2010 12:14 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I'm not only subscribing to your newsletter I'm delivering it.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
I kinda wish I had a newsletter.
"Liberal is to the media what the 2008 San Francisco Giants are to good baseball."
-My Father.
by thecrippesking on Jan 15, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
Movie stars do things that enhance their performances, things that make them more entertaining. They have plastic surgery. They eat unhealthy for certain parts. They use steroids and HGH.
Yeah…
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
How many homers could Christian Bale hit?
doan worry, poplo loe he team, he wan get berry good for body to play the beisbol
by Tim LinCyYoung on Jan 15, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
The Machinist is a really sweet flick.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
It’s up next in my Netflix queue but that’s another thread.
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
Imagine Rocky without HGH. Probably wouldn’t have even been a good movie…
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
You are a sick, sick individual.
Let’s hang out!
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
Holy shit
what is that on the left??
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
wow
just looked it up. That’s crazy.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Nicole Richie
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Hey, do I fuckin’ walk around and hit- no, shut the fuck up, Bruce! Do I wa- no! NO! Don’t shut me up! Am I gonna walk around and hit home runs into your lights in the middle of a scene?!?
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
Excellent point
"Liberal is to the media what the 2008 San Francisco Giants are to good baseball."
-My Father.
by thecrippesking on Jan 15, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
The picture of Bonds and McGwire
made me realized that I like the black jerseys. Verdict is still out on the Orange ones… But bring back the black.
"A foghorn blowing out wild and cold." -Dire Straits
The black jersies contained bad mojo. I think they should use the Gigantes jersies for a full season.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
What is our record as the Gigantes anyway?
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
Just one loss at home last year to LA (I was at the game, so it’s my fault.)
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
I like any jersey that's got Barry Bonds shoehorned into it.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
Yes. People don’t remember that that black jerseys were usually worn during a loss. NO I CAN’T PROVE IT.
The Gigagntes jersey is great, they should definitely wear it more than just twice a year.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
How so?
I like gigantes too, but 71 was hit in the black unis.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I'm "meh" about it
they had to do it at some point anyways, so might as well get it over with. It does sorta screw them over though, since they already have 2 east-coast games on their schedule, and they’ll have one less home game because of it.
Apparently a lot of people are up in arms about it, but it’s better that it’s now than after they get their new stadium.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
And that was the day the Giants were knocked out of the playoffs.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Dude
you’re harshing the mellow
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 15, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
I’m just saying it wasn’t an entirely great day for the Giants.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Yeah, that's true
but I still liked the unis. So there.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 15, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
I have a Friday nights home Black ‘25’ jersey. I pinned my 756 game pin on it and retired it.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
by ringleader3 on Jan 15, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t like when the pants and jersey don’t match so I think if they go for black jerseys they should do black pants as well.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Oh god no, sir.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
How do you feel about the baby blue unis from the early 80s? (not for the Giants obviously)
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
I like traditional uniforms. Whites (or “french vanillas”) at home, grey on the road, no colored jerseys or pants, high socks, the works. That’s just what I like. I think seeing that the Giants are supposed to be one of the old school NL franchises, they should look like one. Giants, Dodgers, Cubs, Cardinals, they have their own classic look that I don’t like messed with (even though the Cubs do have a blue jersey, which sucks.)
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
/fan of variety
one of my favorite things about Oregon is that they change their football unis pretty much every week. I love that.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
The Oregon jerseys can be cool
like their black & green jerseys…but sometimes they can be hideous like their gold jerseys & gold pants. ugh.
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Moderation in all things.
Including moderation itself.
Without the ‘80s Astros, we wouldn’t appreciate the classic Cardinals’ unis as much. That said, fuuuuuuuck the Yankees’ and Red Sox’ soporific road uniforms. Tradition’s nice and all, but you guys look like traveling prison teams. Shake that shit up.
PS: " Red Sox’ "? Is that the appropriate way to indicate the possessive there? Is it Red Sox’s?
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
No shit with the Sox Yankees road units
Prison unis look better. At least the ones at San Quentin do.
by E Ticket on Jan 16, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
The latest Blankstyling.
You can see our evil influence finally bearing fruit!
There’s still too much Sedona Red, but it’s a start.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
Are those the ST, or warm up hats?
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 16, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
BP
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
Unnecessary striping for the loss.
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
this
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
their BS brick and black color scheme
makes me miss their stupid teal and purple color scheme.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 16, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
Their units look like they were designed by a quilting circle or something my grandmother would have knitted had polyester plants been grown in the 1920s.
by E Ticket on Jan 16, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
I always thought the new Arizona uniforms looked like they were designed for a comic book.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 17, 2010 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
That would look awful
Black/white would be fine, no?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I like the black road unis but not the black home unis.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
I like the black road unis simply because I don’t like how the orange and black letters and stripes look brown on top of grey
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:17 PM PST up reply actions
The only person Mark McGwire hurt by taking steroids was himself. I don’t understand why people are upset with him.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
I hurt…to look at his freakish body
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 15, 2010 7:19 PM PST up reply actions
Haven't read a word yet, but…
HOLY CRAP!
Word. Count.
Grant, just who do you think you are, a smarter, wittier version of Bill Simmons?
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
And just think, I wrote this while stopping every five seconds to take something out of my daughter’s mouth. A piece of cheese from two weeks ago…a cat’s tail…steroids (which gave me the idea for this post)…cat food…you name it!
I knew you couldn’t manage this blog without performance enhancing drugs. it is a shame that you let your daughter into your medicine cabinet.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
me niece went through a phase where she loved eating dog food. When my sister would feed the dogs my niece would dart across the room to try to get some kibble before her parents could stop her.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
I enjoy putting food in front a baby’s face just to see them open their mouths and lean over to try to eat it. Then I take the food away and eat it myself.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
They shouldn’t be eating my solid food anyway. The joke’s on them for wanting to eat it so bad.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
You should laugh in their face afterwards to really drive the point home.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
Nah.
I’m saving all the first-rate abuse for when I have my own children.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
note to self: don’t hire howie as babysitter
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
by ringleader3 on Jan 15, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t see why not. I’ll definitely make sure they don’t eat anything they’re not supposed to.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
douche
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Nomi Malone: Don’t they have brown rice and vegetables?
Cristal Connors: Do you like brown rice and vegetables?
Nomi Malone: Yeah.
Cristal Connors: You do?
Nomi Malone: Sort of.
Cristal Connors: Really?
Nomi Malone: It’s worse than dog food.
[Cristal laughs]
Nomi Malone: It is!
Cristal Connors: I’ve had dog food.
Nomi Malone: You have?
Cristal Connors: Mmm-hmmm. Long time ago. Doggy Chow. I used to love Doggy Chow.
Nomi Malone: I used to love Doggy Chow, too!
[Cristal and Nomi touch their chips together]
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
People actually watched that movie with the audio on?
Yeeesh.
Win the inning.
by Scooter Ellis on Jan 15, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions
People actually watched that MUCH of it?
Nice car, Kyle.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
THRUST IT!
THRUST IT! THRUST IT!
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
You’ve got to, or you lose out on, like, half your drinking game opportunities.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
GIANTS BLOG OVERLORD LINKED TO STERIODS
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 15, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
Well this whole steroids thing IS about the children afterall.
Q: Did you ever make an offer for Vladimir Guerrero?
Sabean: In a word: No. If we had signed Guerrero or [Gary] Sheffield, we would have been without [Long list of replacement level vets]—obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.
by Cody_ransom on Jan 16, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Steroids should be mandatory.
I’m sure they wouldn’t be that harmful if team doctors were getting quality drugs and monitoring intake.
I think this was a Stephen Colbert bit
and a very funny one.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 15, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
Imagine
Imagine if you will that in the picture above Mark McGwire is wearing a Yankees uniform and Barry is wearing a Dodgers uniform. Would your analysis and argument be any different. Mine probably would – they would both be no good cheaters that should never be inducted into the Hall of Fame – but then again, I just hate the Dodgers and Yankees.
I don’t think so. The McCoven contains a large number of reluctant A-Rod defenders.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Hate ARod, will defend the guy. What can I say. A Dodger, though? Gagne is a no-good steroid using canadian. He can piss off. Also, completey unrelated, but I just want to say….Griffey was a juicer.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
I was never a big Griffey fan. But I don’t see how you came to that conclusion.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
I do like Griffey. But, when you’re one of the healthiest players ever, and then all of a sudden at the age your peers were alledged to have started using roids, you start coming up with injuries all over the place that involve tearing hamstrings, ligaments and tendons…..yeah. Sure looks like steroids to me. Essentially the same reason I think Nomar used.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
?
Griffey started getting injured after the age of 30. That’s what players used to do.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
It’s the type of injury and timing of it and his history of being incredibly healthy combined. It’s not just that he didn’t get hurt much earlier in his career, it’s that he only ever had one year where he missed any signfiicant number of games in his first 12 seasons….
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
My thing with Ken Griffey Jr. is bulk. Look at pictures of Griffey in the early 90s and Griffey from the early 2000s.
The baseball Satanist
I’m never sure how much to make of that kind of thing.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t really know if Ken Griffey Jr. used steroids or not, but his bulk in the later years of his life is certainly reminiscent (I probably spelled that wrong) of Clemens, McGwire, and Bonds.
The baseball Satanist
Reminiscent of Alec Baldwin, too.
I know what you mean. It does look really weird when a guy becomes a big, blocky version of his old self, and it makes sense to read something into it. I just honestly don’t know how much to read into it.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah I know. I remember before the Balco thing happened people were talking about how he bulked up and I remember thinking “Yeah, but so did Jonathan Frakes but you don’t see anyone accusing Commander Riker of using steroids.”
It’s not really something I’m comfortable using as proof of anything. It’s just very similar to three high profile steroids users…
The baseball Satanist
I’m unclear if you’re implying he’s bulkier or didn’t gain any bulk, or if you’re making a joke I’m not picking up on…
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
Ok, because I’ve had plenty of people (like my roommates all of 3 days ago) tell me the exact opposite, that he never “got big” is often how it’s phrased. I agree with you, though – especially his legs. Griffey had some thick legs. He was a fantastic player, though. Never as good as Bonds, but as good as anyone else in the league at the time…..
It just goes to show, though – you flash a smile often enough, and the perception of you will change dramatically.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
He’s bulked up to, dare I say, Goofus -esque
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
If you give a moose a muffin..
It will probably charge you and kill you. Its not smart to get that close to a moose.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
Except in bed!
Hey, this is fun!
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Is this a Palin-is-a-MILF joke?
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
If you work out with weights consistently over a 15 year period, you will bulk up. Steroids or no, it’s gonna happen. The extent to which it happens depends on genetics, diet, the exact type of regimen etc., but you will put on lean mass.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 15, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
Nice read, Grant. That is all, as I really don’t like discussing steroids.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 15, 2010 12:34 PM PST reply actions
In that case
El Farolito’s in Placentia (sit down restaurant). Order arroz con pollo. Delicious.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
There is one on the corner of East St. and the 91 fwy (Anaheim)really close to my house that we venture to after a night of drinking. Great tacos. We’ve never sat down there though. There is usually a line next to the AL Pastor flame cooker outside.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 15, 2010 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
Huh, did not know of that one.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
Also, I have never figured out how to pronounce “El Farolito’s”
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 15, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
My lil step-brother pronounced it “El Farty-o’s”.
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
Well that still works, considering.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 15, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
El far-o-LEE-toes
/elitist
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I’ve also heard it as the ‘r’ as a ‘ahd’
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 15, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, it could be
depending on the accent I guess. When you say one r in spanish you do sorta flick your tongue of the roof of your mouth a little (at least, to PROPERLY pronounce them /elitist).
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 15, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
Mrs. GAA says it like that (speaks spanish), but I can’t for the life of me.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 15, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions
I could never live in a place called Placentia
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions
Went to Pepe’s today. Nice tip, good food, big portions.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 16, 2010 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
when is comes to Bonds Hall of Fame candidcay, I think there are 3 ways to look at it
1. He cheated the game, God and America! People like that have no place in something as dignified as baseball’s Hall of Fame. (this is the stupid and lazy way)
2. If you accept the conventional wisdom reporting, he started using steroids after the 1998 season. If you absolutely ignore everything he did after the 1998 season, you have: one of only 2 players to have won the NL MVP 3 times (Willie Mays being the other) who also finished in the top 5 of MVP voting 4 other times, the only player in MLB history with 400 HRs and 400 steals, an 8 time Gold Glove winner, who led the league in OBP 4 times, slugging % 3 times, and OPS 5 times. Basically, an unquestioned Hall of Famer if he would have retired after the 1998 season, rather than deciding to use steroids. (a reasonable way to look at it, I think)
3. The only way we can truly evaluate players if by comparing them to their peers. How do we know Babe Ruth was so great when none of us saw him play and he played in a segregated MLB? Because when you compare him to players of his era, he is clearly a lot better than any of his peers. In the era Barry Bonds played in, many players used many performance enhancing drugs and nothing was done to stop them from doing so. In this era, Bonds was clearly the best player. (my preferred way to look at it)
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 15, 2010 12:34 PM PST reply actions
Mays only won the MVP twice – 1954 and 1965, I believe.
by APGiantsFan on Jan 15, 2010 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
wow, I was completely wrong about the MVP thing
as of 1998 there had been four 3 time NL MVPs, Bonds, Stan Musial, Roy Campanella, and Mike Schmidt (all Hall of Famers obvioously)
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 15, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
as of 1998, there had been four 3 time NL MVPs: Bonds, Roy Campanella, Stan Musial, and Mike Schmidt (all Hall of Famers obviously)
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 15, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
Bonds was clearly the best player
That’s my way of looking at it. Dunno why you need all that other stuff, since Bonds was obviously clean.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Break it down!
Nice post.
4. Also, another way to adjust for the steroids (though certainly arbitrary), is If you take away the 32HRs above BB’s average of 41/year (and assume the length of career (extended? shortened by roids?) and park dimensions and roided eric gagne and all the other stuff cancels out), he’d still have 730 HRs. Not the record, but still an absolutely ridiculous number.
Whoever invented rope was a real a-hole!
by Cannonballden on Jan 15, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
Mychael Urban
Mychael Urban just tweeted that if he wants to feel bad, he just comes here and searches his name! Is he generally disliked round here? I can’t say I’ve noticed. Personally, I think his weekend show is really good.
I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused
Mychael should learn more about baseball. He probably wouldn’t be bashed as much if he knew at least a little bit about what he writes about.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
Is Urban one of those guys that does every sport? They tend to be the worst since they don’t spend the time to actually learn about a single one of the sports they cover….
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
Yep
He spends his time being wrong about football as well.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
Obviously from a business standpoint, it makes sense to have these general reporters/announcers that cover all sports….but the truth is, it takes a shitload of time just to learn about one sport in depth, much less a lot of sports. So the end result, for those fans that do have in depth knowledge of a sport….is pretty crappy reporting/announcing. I don’t necessarily hold it against these guys, I’m just kinda bitter that most fans are just like them and don’t know shit, so obviously these guys still have jobs because they appeal to the masses….
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know...
I agree it would be difficult to be a bona fide expert; obviously somebody studying a whole bunch of sports won’t be Bill Belichick or Theo Epstein, but we’re talking about football and baseball, not nuclear physics and foreign relations. I think you could be a knowledgeable and informative commenter on a pretty broad range of sports if you were smart and dilligent about your research.
A couple, but with a full time job and kids and the whole bit, I think it’d be tough to really become knowledgeable about more than 2 sports or so. God knows I waste my life away on the internet learning about these sports, and I still find basketball and baseball to be the only sports I can keep my knowledge pretty high on. I just don’t have the time or background to really get into the details of football, for instance, even though I partake in some blogging about it and have a fairly good basic knowledge….
And I’m at that point of life, couples year outta college, where I have plenty of time….
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
And I can’t even imagine how much less I’d know if I didn’t spend all day at work reading your guys crap…. ;)
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
I was talking about a professional sports writer (since the conversation started with Urban), not a regular person. How many sports could you be pretty knowledgeable about if that was your job?
major pet peeve
announcers that can’t be bothered to be knowledgable about the sport. Following sports is for funsies for me. They should know more than me, but they don’t.
Also annoying, professional athletes who are in poor shape.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Damon Bruce says HI!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 15, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions
I find Kruk and Kuip, the Sharks announcers and most British soccer announcers to be pretty informative, knowledgeable and enjoyable to listen to. Most everyone else really, really sucks.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions
This place is ugly when people here start getting overly snobby about their knowledge or someone else’s lack of knowledge.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
I agree. I respect Urban, we have given him a lot of shit and he takes it in stride, he seems like a good guy, I just disagree with most of his opinions. He seems to mostly go off what he sees and what scouts tell him. Unfortunately, people on here dont have any Major league scouts to talk to, so we use what we can, which are stats. Sometimes scouts and stats contradict each other, like in Dye’s case.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
and then they start throwing around stats and acting like you’re dumb for not knowing of them. Fred Lewis has the highest FAP in all of baseball, which makes up for his low FRaZ percentage!!!
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:34 PM PST up reply actions
He pitched at USF
was an okay arm in a small D-1 program (WCC)
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
so you fled to Ohio because your school in one of the most beautiful and interesting cities on earth had no parties.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
AND ITZ FULL OF TEH GAYZ
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Southern Florida or San Francisco?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
Mychael, who lives with his wife and two daughters in Livermore, Calif., has an in-depth knowledge of baseball in general and pitching in particular — he was a southpaw reliever at the University of San Francisco, and he spent the summer of 1998 as the pitching coach for the Slovakian National Baseball Team, helping guide Team Slovensko through the European Championships in Hull, England.
http://www.knbr.com/pages/mychaelurban
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
has an in-depth knowledge of baseball in general and pitching in particular
This explains his love for crappy hitters.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
He knows two things about pitching
1. Its hard to do
2. He can’t do it.
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
win
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 15, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions
LOL
Adopted Giant: Clayton Tanner
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jan 15, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
Odd.
It doesn’t seem say anything about his career-defining stint covering my high school sports for the small town local paper. Matter of fact, it doesn’t seem to say anything about me at all! What?!!? Did our time together mean nothing to you, Mychael?!
Sidenote: This is officially my first post. Why this particular comment was the one to inspire me to finally step out from the dark shadows of lurker-dom, I have no idea.
And since it’s my first post forgive me for indulging in a moment of free association but…
Mychael
My-chael
Your-kel
Ur-kel
Urkel.
There’s something there.
by BestHyperboleEver on Jan 15, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
Welcome!
I’m guessing by your screen name that you’ve got some impressively calm eyes.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
Benedetti Diamond
Fulton Street. Across the street from St. Ignatius. Right field fence borders masonic.
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
Haha
Yeah. And the pop flies down the fb side bounce off the house on that little side street.
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
TAO OF STEVE!
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
Sometimes I like him sometimes I don’t.
He always looks like a thumb though.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
I like Urban on KNBR he’s better than a lot of the other mediocre “talent” they trot out from time to time. damon dunce, and fpee tangerinio
While I’m no fan of Urban, he’s certainly better than a lot of the personalities on KNBR.
The baseball Satanist
I can deal with him, Murph and Tolbert. The worst for me are Ralph, Gary and Damon Bruce.
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
I like Murph and Mac, Tolbert, and Rod Brooks. I dislike Damon Bruce, Ralph and sometimes Bob Fitzgerald (only because when he’s wrong, he’s off by so much that I want to correct him by yelling through the radio)
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions
I was listening last night when Damon Bruce said the Giants should overpay to bring back Molina for one more year because he could hit 25 or more homers. I couldn’t listen anymore and shut off the radio.
"meh"
POUND IT POUND IT POUND IT POUND IT POUND IT
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions
I like that he talks about baseball, and has good contacts in the game.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
He usually has good information
But analysis is sometimes a bit choppy.
He’s better than a lot of people though, and he has the balls to do livechats every week.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
that won't work
no one knows how to spell MyIaechaee3l’s name
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 15, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
I’ve never had any problems with him. Sometimes he’s right, sometimes he’s wrong. He’s not Peter Gammons, but then again, he’s not Damon Bruce. I also like his general optimism on the radio.
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:25 PM PST up reply actions
Old timey, my ass.
Jim Bouton, as quoted in Ball Four, says that if a pitcher was offered a pill that would guarantee 20 wins while taking 5 years off of his life, said pitcher would take it without hesitation. And that was before the massive contracts.
I’m guessing that the mindset of players has pretty much always been the same. It’s the technology that’s changed.
That same Jim Bouton has been swept up by the crowds out looking for a witch, though. It’s pretty sad, he’s pretty much taken the typical anti-steroids stance.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
The thing is, he should know better. He really should. He is as brilliant as he is radicalized, so I suspect that there is something that nobody (or very few) knows about that accounts for this apparent contradiction in his value system
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
Ball Four
loved, loved that book. Reading that was my awakening as a baseball fan.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
Merkin.....vroooom
I’ll bet right about now Merkin Valdez is thinking about taking steroids, and I believe there’s a strong medical case to be made for Vrooom taking some steroids right now….that guy’s starving to death…hey, wait that gives me an idea, sabotage the buffet table at spring training, no more vrooom.
Don't give him the game ball Dusty, you'll jinx it...
Vroooom is the kind of player I think of when I think of a guy who would most likely use steriods (rather than a slugger). He is almost a major leaguer but not really. Perhaps some testosterone could put him over the edge?
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Steroids wouldn't help him
Merkin doesn’t need a better fastball. He needs another pitch.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
I think he was talking about Jim Steriods the pitching coach known for helping pitchers develope changeups.
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Indeed I was referring to Jim Steroids the pitching coach, but I also meant that if he’s only going to throw one pitch, he needs to throw it at roughly 150 MPH.
Don't give him the game ball Dusty, you'll jinx it...
by The Neuschler on Jan 15, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
/Rawlings produces the S100 150MPH catchers mitt that has a cartoonish size.
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Steroids sold separately…
Don't give him the game ball Dusty, you'll jinx it...
by The Neuschler on Jan 15, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
Having a good idea about where the fastball will end up wouldn’t hurt him either.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 15, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
and some movement
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
Let’s face it, Merkin is not good.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 12:06 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t care about who took what. What, I’m supposed to go back and un-enjoy games I already enjoyed? Nuts to that, captain.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
No. You just have to admit that it was better back in the day when whoever you are talking to was a kid and their hero of choice did things the right way.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
I think nostalgia has alot to do with it. Especially when it comes to sports writers/HOF voters. Steriods is a very convenient way for them to deny todays players the same glory thier favorite players had.
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
U STATHEADS ALWAYS HAVE TO QUANTIFY WITH "NUMBERS"
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
That little?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 15, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
What’s this “enjoying games” thing you speak of?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
You don’t enjoy games? Why do you even bother watching them?
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
I usually enjoy the first few innings until I realize they Giants are gonna lose 2-0 again.
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Maybe take up ship-in-a-bottle building.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
I tried that, but I’m a masochist, or as people in baseball call them—a Giant’s fan. From freezing my ass off at the stick, to Jose fuckin Oqeundo, Solomon fuckin Torres and Dusty “don’t you dare give out another game ball” baker, to Brian Sabean I relish the pain.
Don't give him the game ball Dusty, you'll jinx it...
by The Neuschler on Jan 15, 2010 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
It’s not 2-0 that bothers me, it’s 2-0, with only 3 hits.
Don't give him the game ball Dusty, you'll jinx it...
by The Neuschler on Jan 15, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
Above Average Offensive day for the Giants
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Although it would be great if they could design a PED that allowed us to go back and retroactively enjoy games we didn’t enjoy at the time.
"Those that drink the Kool-Aid, please leave the room."
Otherwise known as a "time machine"
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 15, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions
To be frank, I’m just going to come out and say it. There’s no merit to any argument that you can hold steroids against an individual. First – if you’re going to tarnish an individuals accomplishments, the team has to be tarnished, too. There’s a reason Olympic Medals are taken away from the entire relay team if someone juiced. You simply cannot leave team accomplishments alone while trying to strike individual ones down. Second – if you’re going to argue on a legal ground – you have to acknowledge greenies, and all the current HoF’ers, record holders/breakers, and other all around greats that used them. There is no merit to a legal argument that doesn’t acknowledge this. Third – you have to apply these standards consistently across all sports. If you’re holding it against baseball players, you have to hold it against the NFL, too. So…yeah, until the standards people are arguing for are applied in a consisent manner, there is no merit to the arguments.
The bottom line is a lot of people are butthurt over records being broken and new standards being set (ignoring that we don’t even know how much PED’s even did in this regard), and they’re arguments are all based on the emotions they’re feeling – anger, resentment, moral outrage, a desire to protect childhood heroes and romanticized memories of the past, etc. These arguments are not well thought out, though, and I have yet to see anything that stands up to some actual thought up scrutiny. But because enough people feel and argue this way, even reasonable people who understand why these arguments carry no merit start to accept them. Well….we can’t move on until we realize that there is not a single good argument to hold steroids against these players. Why not start right here, right now?
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 1:23 PM PST reply actions 8 recs
I rec'd a lot of comments in this thread
But rec’d this the hardest of all. It really is all about the butthurt.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Isn’t the governing body in charge of Olympic swimming about to ban those super-techy nylon suits that shave tenths or hundredths of seconds off of a swimmer’s time, and are probably responsible for all those records falling in Beijing a few years ago?
Will Michael Phelps get his medals taken away? Will his Olympic and World Records have asterisks attached? (enter marijuana joke here)
"Those that drink the Kool-Aid, please leave the room."
Phelps was beaten by swimmers wearing those suits.
His coach led the pitchforks – and – torches parade.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
Based on what I’ve been told about the rules about suits in swimming, those suits should have been illegal a long time ago. I forget the rule exactly, but they seemed to pretty clearly break it in my opinion. It has something to do with actually changing the shape/composition of your body, and they blantantly do that.
by Missing Barry on Jan 15, 2010 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
Sort of like...body armor.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
Whole body corsets.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 15, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
They should do it just like in Greek times, and compete in the nude
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:40 PM PST up reply actions
Steroid Era highlights
Look on the bright side. We got to witness baseball played by strong fast angry mutant hawkeyes at the top of their game. A glimpse of the future, for a little while.
I mean, how cool was Bonds vs. Gagne in 2004?
I'm up... everyone move in!
So Much Self-Righteousness Here
I know for a FACT that there are people commenting in this thread who have used steroids to help them be able to post more…so much hypocrisy.
I admit it
I would have never won Most Amusing Poster of 2009 without the help of performance enhancers.
What you want to bet
We ain’t started yet
Baby stick around
Baby stick………………………………………………………..around.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
I got your cases in front of me today.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
Why do you think I won best newcomer and have since won nothing?
I stopped using due to a guilty conscious.
The baseball Satanist
Things Lars has in common with Alex Sanchez:
You don’t want to see the un-enhanced version of either one.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Natto’s wouldn’t own the most posts in a career without the help of PEDs.
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Jan 15, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions
exactly
how do you think he stays so healthy so he can post so much?
by Into the Void on Jan 15, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
yeah but he was posting against other’s also using PED’s
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Test that long, luscious hair.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
I’d like to say before the McCC Grand Jury that I did not have steroid injections from that woman.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
She’s a man, baby!
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Definitely
He was getting another type of injection.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
I guess the injection tracks are still on the butt, though.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
‘the cream’
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
with a dash of “the clear”.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
He told me it was just flaxseed oil!
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Yes.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
I only used to stay on the chat. To be normal. The rest was all me. The talent God blessed me with.
/dick joke
The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."
Pete Rose & Steroids
While it was the gambling that finally brought him down, it was a steroids investigation that stirred up the hornet’s nest in the first place. Had his gambling buddy not been busted for trafficking in steroids, they may never have found out about Pete’s little problem.
Eliminate that pesky Dominatrix in one easy step. Step 1: Tell her you're a Cubs fan!
Rose should also be in the HOF
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
I’ve always thought of the rampant use of performance enhancing drugs as just being part of this era – just as low power numbers and ridiculous pitching numbers were part of the Dead-ball era, high batting averages were part of the 30s, and more ridiculous pitching numbers are part of the high-mound era in the Koufax days. Numbers have been inflated or deflated in various ways throughout the history of baseball – that’s why we think of them in the context of their era and we don’t judge a player from the Deadball era with a .690 OPS the same way we would judge a player from the current era with a .690 OPS. The trouble, of course, is the obsession with counting stats but what can you do?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
OT: My gambling problem
I now have two bets with my phillie-fan friend
1) Aubrey Huff will have an OPS+ greater than placido polanco’s
2) Lincecum will finish higher in the cy young voting than roy halladay
Any other suggestions for things to bet him on?
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
Aaron Rowand will run into more walls than Shane Victorino
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
To add
- Wins against lefty pitchers whose last name begins with Z
- Home runs that were originally called a double but changed on replay
- Number of times TV cameras focus on Heidi Hamels vs Heidi DeRosa when Hamels is pitching against DeRosa after the 3rd inning
Win the inning.
by Scooter Ellis on Jan 15, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
I'm totally serious about this btw
The guy is a total homer. What are some bets I could get him to agree to that I could pull some money off of?
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
I know how much they love Pedro Feliz. You could probably get him on something involving him
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:43 PM PST up reply actions
He hates Pedro and is happy he's gone
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
We are all Astros now.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
/ Shift-A
what did we decide on?
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 3:18 PM PST reply actions
drugs are bad, mmmkay?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
Aight ball.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
Pika! You need to man up and buy MW2 so I can whoop your ass!
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
I suppose you have a 360?
i have it on PS3. Can’t get the damn multiplayer working though. PS3 is starting to piss me off
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 15, 2010 11:38 PM PST up reply actions
Get a 360. Hella good.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 16, 2010 12:55 AM PST up reply actions
I've had one like 3 separate times
but always end up selling it in the summer, since I don’t use it. The PS3 is my roomy’s. I wouldn’t pay money for that junk.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Stop trying to make me feel bad!
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 16, 2010 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
Nah, it's cool
in the winter here there is absolutely nothing to do but sit inside in the heat and play video games. So I would play the shiznit out of it during the winter, but then summer would come and there would be basketball and skateboarding and I’d be like “hey, I could use another 150 bucks for something I’m hardly using anyways”.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 16, 2010 11:50 PM PST up reply actions
Except there is still plenty of stuff to do here in the winter. But I just got 2 nukes tonight!
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 17, 2010 1:07 AM PST up reply actions
Meh
you’re a kid. You have an excuse (hahaha I get to call someone a kid). All you damn kids do these days is play your damn video games.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/sniffs
/smells video game envy
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 17, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
reset your router
there is data from the first MW that conflicts with MW2. Turn off your router, unplug everything. Turn it back on, wait 30 seconds…you should be able to connect to Activision after that (assuming this is why you can’t connect).
If anyone wants to add me on PS3, my name is: StreetsOfFrisco
by Sabean_Is_Iago on Jan 16, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
Nah
I can connect, but it just sits there looking for a game and never finds one for some reason. It just keeps saying “searching” grrr
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Yeah, that’s probably the router. Try what I said, it should work after. I had the same problem.
by Sabean_Is_Iago on Jan 16, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
IDK
I’ll give it a shot when I get home, other games seem to work fine though…weird.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Woohoo! It worked
you were right. That’s weird that it’s COD only. I’m getting my behind handed to be regularly, though.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 17, 2010 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
I'm stockmopar
so if you get a request, you know it’s me
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 17, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t know, but I made a sweet riff on a joke Natto made about Jeff Kent resembling Anthony Edwards.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
You think you guys could re-enact it for me?
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
Natto: You know, Jeff Kent looks a lot like Anthony Edwards.
howtheyscored: You mean that guy from ER?
I guess you really kind of had to be there….
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 15, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
HAR HAR HAR i dont get it
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
OT: SFG auctions for Haiti relief
10 pitches off a Giants Starting Pitcher
Private hitting instruction session with Pablo Sandoval and Hensley Muelens
Private meeting with Two-Time Cy Young Award Winner Tim Lincecum.
I like the mystery of the first one. $1000 bucks for a good cause and a chance to hit against Kevin Pucetas!
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
10 pitches bouncedoff the head ofa Giants Starting Pitcher General Manager.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 15, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i would pay like 40,000 Frankenfrancs for that.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
On second thought, that sucked. What I should have said was:
GO GUY who steps up and makes a generous donation to a very important humanitarian cause. Hope you get a big fat slow pitch floating over home plate!
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
So the pitcher is barry zito?
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
NO
He said the ball was over the plate, not the backstop
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
How much for hitting instructions from Shawon Dunston?
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
“Whoa, whoa, whoa. There’s still plenty of meat on that bone. Now you take this home, throw it in a pot, add some broth, a potato. Baby, you’ve got a stew going. "
“Yes, that’s fine, but I would like to focus on my acting, Mr. Weathers. I did give you my last $1,100. "
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
Why would I want to see 10 pitches from a Giants starting pitcher?
That sounds terrifying.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
That’s the one I would want the most. Although the other two are probably more for your money.
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
I also would have on idea what to do in a private meeting with Lincecum. Like, by private, do they mean you go in a room with the blinds down? Cause then I guess you could smoke or have sex or something, but besides that, I would have no idea.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
Personally, I would probably bring a couple gloves and a ball and play catch and bullshit for however long it is.
Brian says a lot of things. Brian only does one thing, though. Get low OBP hacking suckholes who’s best years are in the past. - Missing Barry
Meh. I dont think Tim would want to play catch, but whatever.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I guess you could pass a ppe through the glory hole
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Does Mrs. Goofus know you’re soliciting gay sex? Say! Didn’t I see you on “The First 48”
by E Ticket on Jan 15, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
Gee. You should be a politician.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
Private meeting? more like AWESOME TOKING SESSION
doan worry, poplo loe he team, he wan get berry good for body to play the beisbol
by Tim LinCyYoung on Jan 15, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Private hitting instruction with Pablo Sandoval would last about 5 seconds. See ball, hit ball
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 15, 2010 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
OT: Shit.
A’s acquired Kevin Kouzmanoff.
The A’s acquire Kouzmanoff and give up Scott Hairston….who came from the Padres last year. Two other players involved, trying to confirm
Damn Hairston’s back with the Padres.
Adopted Giant: Clayton Tanner
by walkoff baltimore chop on Jan 15, 2010 4:10 PM PST reply actions
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
now we have to play against Hairston again
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
Oh balls.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Sounds like Cunningham and Hairston for Kouzmanoff and another minor leaguer.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 15, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
You want to get really paranoid?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Well, he is homeless.
Open your hearts!
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
Well, he lives (or at least he used to) live in Half Moon Bay and one could always hope he would get wiped by a tsunami. He is one of the most annoying frat boy media suck-ups I’ve ever had to suffer through on long rush hour commutes during the off-season. It is no accident that he and FP are big a-hole buddies going back to their teeny bopper scrubini years.
Another benefit of league contraction.
No more FPs, or Eric Byrnes need apply
by E Ticket on Jan 16, 2010 4:16 PM PST up reply actions
Is it true that MaGwire and Sosa saved the game? Nope. Hmm…no italics. Perhaps the statement has to be false in order for the italics to happen.
Also, when is there going to be an actual merited sudy on PEDs so we can see that they aren’t nearly as dangerous as they have been made out to be since the Germans were using them in the olympics and they were demonized back in the 70s.
by positiveuphemism on Jan 15, 2010 5:21 PM PST reply actions
What are you basing this opinion upon? I believe that that homerun chase brought back huge numbers of fans to baseball that had walked away because of the strike in ‘94. I am one of those fans. I don’t have the data, but I remember seeing revenue numbers from the period that back that up.
I can't see it being Ripken
basically a gamer vs DINGERZ argument. I think DINGERZ win.
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
For baseball to have been “saved” it had to have been on the way out. That wasn’t the case. Baseball wasn’t going anywhere. See?
Nothing was saved. Popularity increasing is not saving.
Now if something had happened in the WNBA that was comparable…that would be saving.
by positiveuphemism on Jan 16, 2010 1:34 AM PST up reply actions
Why couldnt we get kouzmanoff?
Wasnt there a rumor at the winter meetings of Freddy Lew and Frandsen for him. Looks like the A’s got ripped off.
Why would we really want Kevin Kouzmanoff?
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
tremendous upside?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 15, 2010 11:39 PM PST up reply actions
matt williams
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 1:07 AM PST up reply actions
LOL
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
jeff kent
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 1:07 AM PST up reply actions
LOL
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
hitting the slider is a major hurdle for most players, and many good or great ones have to overcome that challenge to become good major league hitters, eg, Williams and Kent.
Also, as far as using minor league stats to predict major league success, having a good slider is also a big difference between minor and major league pitchers—a good slider is almost non-existent in the minor leagues, as anyone with a good one will probably be in the majors.
As for Kouzmanoff, since he’ll be 28 this year, if that’s his problem, then this could be his make-or-break year as a hitter.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 17, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
yeah, that’s the first thing that I thought
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 15, 2010 11:38 PM PST up reply actions
but I think that the a’s came out ahead on that one, or will come out ahead
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 15, 2010 11:39 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
Who is the minor leaguer that the A’s received? Probably isn’t a big prospect, but it does affect the calculus of the deal. The A’s got a good defensive 3B who is probably a 2.5 WAR player in exchange for a 4th outfielder who is probably a 1.5 WAR guy. Cunningham is projected by CHONE to be 0.8 WAR this year (which would easily be his best performance in the ML to-date). I’d say that’s a good trade for the A’s. Also, fuck them for giving Hairston back to the Padres.
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Slusser tweets that the minor leaguer going to Oakland is infielder Eric Sogard. Baseball America ranked him as San Diego’s 17th best prospect coming into the 2009 season, though that was before he hit .293/.370/.400 with more walks (58) than strikeouts (47) in Double-A.
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
From SFGate:
Two-time NL Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum highlighted the list of 128 players who filed for salary arbitration Friday, with many likely to gain enormous raises in the annual process.
Story here
I was going to make a Fanpost but I’ll let someone with 75 words to say pontificate on the subject.
Eight players agreed to one-year contracts Friday instead of filing, including Arizona outfielder Conor Jackson ($3.1 million) and catcher Miguel Montero ($2 million), and a pair of Texas pitchers: Brandon McCarthy ($1.3 million) and Dustin Nippert ($665,000).
San Diego closer Heath Bell ($4 million), Los Angeles Dodgers pitcher Chad Billingsley ($3.85 million), San Francisco reliever Brandon Medders ($820,000) and Houston pitcher Chris Sampson ($815,000) also agreed to contracts.
I ALREADY WORK AROUND THE CLOCK!!!
The price of Meh has certainly taken quite an uptick.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 15, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
ahahaha
I laugh at your name, Dustin Nippert.
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
wow, looks like barbara is the winner
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 15, 2010 11:36 PM PST up reply actions
That seems like a good deal for us
especially if he can repeat his season from last year
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Baggs:
It’s official; Lincecum files for arbitration
I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.
Ty Cobb would have juiced, no doubt about it. And I’d wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Babe Ruth wouldn’t have as well. Steroids were available in the 60’s and 70’s so it is conceivable to say that Pete Rose juiced too. And that opens things up for others like Reggie Jackson, Joe Morgan, so on…
But one thing that doesn’t get talked about much any more like it was when PED’s were only “suspected” to be the cause of the offensive numbers in the late ’90s is that players today are taking much better care of themselves than the were 20 and 30 years ago. I remember as a kid watching Ferguson Jenkins smoking in the dugout between innings. What if Mantel had taken better care of himself? Kuiper talks about that sort of thing from time to time. What if Ruth had taken better care of himself for that matter?
This not to say that PED were and are not rampant in pro sports, it is just another factor to throw into the discussion when comparing eras.
Who had the biggest advantage?
1) Babe Ruth hit 714 in 8398 ABs, but his competition consisted of white American ballplayers.
2) Hank Aaron hit 755 home runs, but it took him 12,364 ABs to do so.
3) Barry Bonds hit 762 home runs in 9847 ABs, but is widely suspected of having boosted his numbers with anabolic steroids. However, he was also facing pitchers who used steroids.
In your opinion, was the biggest advantage Ruth’s limited competition, Aaron’s huge number of ABs, or Bonds’ alleged performance-enhancing drug use?
Don’t forget Babe Ruth never faced the type of pitches that Barry had to see, like sliders etc. Ruth didn’t play against players that were equally talented, and probably more talented than the players he was actually playing against.
Also, Bonds had to hit HR for the last 4 years of his career seeing one pitch a game. The fact that he hit 40+ HR’s when he was being walked 200 times goes to show the type of talent he had.
I don’t think Aaron compares at all to Bonds or Ruth, in terms of sheer talent. However, his career was as steady and solid as a career there has ever been in the history of baseball.
OT: Pipe Dream
Sabean surprises us all, signs Orlando Hudson to play second base and putting Renteria on the bench
2b Hudson
SS Sanchez
3b Sandoval
1b Huff
LF DeRosa
CF Rowand
RF Schierholtz/Bowker
C Posey
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
"I want to help you, George Washington? Man, even your dreams are square."
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
by rotorueter on Jan 16, 2010 8:00 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
OT
From Bruce Jenkins in the 3 Dot Lounge:
Good news from Comcast SportsNet Bay Area: Starting with the baseball season, every game in every sport will be telecast in HD. The only exceptions would be on-the-road sites (say, a Sharks game in Canada) with old-school technology
"meh"
That is great news!
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 15, 2010 10:48 PM PST up reply actions
that will blow my vacuum tubes
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 15, 2010 11:36 PM PST up reply actions
sweeet
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 15, 2010 11:46 PM PST up reply actions
Shift A
Grant, this is well written and very insightful. One of the best reads from you I have seen on this site.
Well done.
Also to the many insightful comments from the community. Thank you all.
"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball
#2 in Fanshots
It’s entirely plausible to wonder if Rafael Palmeiro would have had 500 home runs without performance-enhancing drugs.
Isn’t this the crux of the cheating argument?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
But
With 3000 hits, he still had to hit the ball…pretty damned good. I don’t care one way of the other, but he was pretty close without it.
Fuck steroids. Its over. Move on. Juts let the people keep their records, just forget all about it as far as Im concerned. As much as we all love it, baseball is just a game. The records mean nothing.
GrahamCrakalaka
by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 16, 2010 1:07 AM PST reply actions
yeah
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 2:22 AM PST up reply actions
As a paying fan
I want to watch the best athletes science can create.
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
this is a female
this is a female
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 16, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
No, you misread the whole thing. Grant IS making that argument. He’s not saying that others are.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 16, 2010 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
ESPN dot com is right over here ----------------------------->
by E Ticket on Jan 16, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
Wait, do you mean that no one is presenting the steroids debate as a false, cheaters/non-cheaters dichotomy? Really? When I write that Tony Gwynn hit over .300 in a season, I don’t link it because I don’t have to. Same thing here, but if you want, I can spend 30 minutes and find you 25 links that mention steroid users shouldn’t be in the Hall because they cheated, ignoring any other context.
He means that no one is making the argument that:
A player who is unwilling to take performance-enhancing drugs because of the associated health risks should not have to compete with a player who is willing to assume those risks.
It is a bit confusing. When you write that that’s “the argument against steroids, whittled down to its core”, it seems like you’re saying that that’s what all the writers are arguing – that all the anti-steroid arguments that are made can be stripped down to that.
I was promised lasagna.
OMG SO LUCKY
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
TWIS!
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 17, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
There’s been interesting work done regarding PED’s in some of the medical journals I’ve read – specifically how it relates to improved protein synthesis, reduced muscle damage, etc. I’m trying to find them, but if there are any M.D’s here that could reference them I think it would significantly add to the discussion.
by Sabean_Is_Iago on Jan 16, 2010 12:40 PM PST reply actions
So, today is tomorrow, and I haven’t seen any of the Merkin or Bocock jokes yet.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Jan 16, 2010 1:41 PM PST reply actions
LOLardinals
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
FUCK YOU CARDINLOLS
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOU
WARNER INJURED! Uh oh. Hope he’s OK, but has to leave football forever.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
they killed him.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
No
if favre got injured, I would not say uh oh. I would say “fuck that guy, karma’s a bitch, dickhead” or something to that effect.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
you have a legendary soft touch
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 5:38 PM PST up reply actions
Anybody who wishes injury on someone or is happy is looking for karma himself. Think about that.
"meh"
I never said I was wishing injury on him
re-read it. I said IF it happened, I wouldn’t be sad about it. I don’t wish injury on anyone.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Well, I'll take my chance with karma
IDK if I’d be “happy”. If it was something like a compound fracture or something then no, I wouldn’t be happy. But if he got destroyed from the blind side and got some sort of mild injury that made him retire, then I’d struggle to feel bad about that.
Not that I’ve given this much thought.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 17, 2010 12:11 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t get the hatred. Irritating yes. But he’s no TO or Randy Moss or Paxico Burriss or Jeremy Shockey.
"meh"
I don't hate any of those guys
well, it’s a different kind of feeling. I wouldn’t want them on my team, but I’m not really repulsed by them.
Favre is another level. That game this year scarred me. If I’d just seen it on TV it would have been bad, but being there was so awful. SO fucking awful. I cannot stand him after that, and wish him and that team ill things.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 17, 2010 12:33 AM PST up reply actions
HATE
i’d like to see that word disappear
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 17, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
Fuck you asshole
I don’t need to click on that to know what it is. FFFUUUUUUUUUU
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
yeah, flotSam
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 17, 2010 12:36 AM PST up reply actions
I'd never seen that. That was Montana/Youngish.
/awaits the ban
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 17, 2010 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
Holy shit
I am going to fucking kill someone now
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Yeah
but he just marched them right down the field. What the fuck.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
neil chokers
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Saints preserve us!
The wheels seem to have come off Cinderella’s coach!
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
Matt "God Damned!" Leinart
- Five Redflex camera tickets on the N.Scottsdale portion of the 101 freeway.
In one week.
- Photographed beerbonging with coeds. Well, They Might Be Coeds.
- Earns $6.175 million on the bench while watching Moses lead his people.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
49ers: NFC west champs at 7-9
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
LOL GETTIN JIGGY WITH IT
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
HA! total and utter humiliation to give the niners a head start on next season.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
HAHAHA NEILOL RACKERS. FUCK YOU
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
OT: Haiti
I know this is a baseball blog, but Silver Seven, the Ottawa Senators SBN blog, is donating $0.05 to the Canadian Red Cross in support of Haiti for every comment on their GDT. And since McC kind of rules at commenting on GDTs, I just thought that you guys might be interested in helping out.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Why don't we just link the Huff thread?
/lazy bastid
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 16, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Their record for comments is 608. I think the Huff thread would break their brains.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
what’s a “GDT?”
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
The abbreviation GDT usually refers to: Greenwich Daylight Saving Time
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
I thought it stood for “Good day, Thompson”.
In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I was hoping it was “God Damn TrolleyDodgers”
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 7:58 PM PST up reply actions
thx; is that part of MCC?….not finding it
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
It’s the thread that runs for comments during games. You probably can’t find it because… there aren’t any Giants games atm.
Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info
by cybermaldonado on Jan 16, 2010 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
lot’s of off-days lately
/scratches head
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
his wife’s of salt lately.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 17, 2010 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
Pillar of the community.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 17, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
UGH
Game Day Threads are self-inflicted spam filled with little more than
STFD
STFU
Fuck you Bochy
Fuck you Sabean
Fuck you Zito
Fuck you Rowand
Fuck you fuckers
Fuck you fucking fuckers
Fuck you Renteria
Fuck the Dodgers
Fuck Tommy Lasorda
Fuck Armando Benitez
Fuck Jack Clark
Fuck Dick Clark
Fuck a Clark Bar
Fucking fuck fucks
/fuck
by E Ticket on Jan 16, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
Also: SUCK IT RUSSELL MARTIN!
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Finish Him!
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Jan 16, 2010 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
I like them. There’s no MCC Law saying that everyone has to participate. /shrug
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
What I mean, they suffer from user overload. A few years ago, the size of the threads were managable and the comments seemed to be more of a running conversation like you would have with a several friends. Now its like 6000 people yelling at once so for an old bastard like me, its just so much stadium noise, so I simply pick up my shit and retire to my luxury suite :D
by E Ticket on Jan 16, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
I think it’s hte combination of the larger population and the instant refresh in the threads, which makes it seem like a bit more of a chatroom
It was impossible on the old site to post that many comments in a GDT! All that refreshing!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Um, E?
Yeah, me again.
Hey, you missed some shit.
Come pick it up, ’kay?
That’s it right over there.
some of E’s shit
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 17, 2010 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
And your point is......
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
To be fair, those are all completely legitimate points.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
*tear*
yeah, it’s pretty awesome.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Ridiculous!
I, for one, like Clark Bars.
Needz mor Fucking Uncle Fucker.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 17, 2010 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
Fucking fuck fucks
hey, I’m getting recognized!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
He is such a fucking asshole.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Douche rage.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 17, 2010 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
4 million in lost wages?
Dude devalued himself, especially when you consider how ROIDS could have INFLATED HIS NUMBERS.
Oh yah. I KNOW THEY DID would have.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 17, 2010 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
That should be Offerman’s argument:
“Your honor, Nathans wouldn’t even have been good enough to catch for the Bridgeport Bluefish without steroids, and I was just so enraged at that assault upon the integrity of the Atlantic League that I felt I had to try and beat the juice out of him with my bat.”
But seriously, while a low-grade Sal Fasano clone in an independent league had no chance of making millions in the bigs, I’d say that what Offerman did to him is worth $4.8m. Fuck Jose Offerman. I’m not gonna wait for the next GDT to say that.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 17, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
To make matters worse, it was not just a matter of ruining the guy’s career—-he was left with serious neurological damage.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...-----RIP, MY SON
Exactly.
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Jan 17, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
nfl pLOLayoffs
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
Man, I fucking hate the vikings
I should be enjoying the cowboys getting destroyed in the playoffs, but since its the FUCKING VIKINGS i cant. God damnit.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I know. At least the four best teams will be playing next weekend (assuming San Diego doesn’t lose a game they have no right losing).
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 17, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
LOL kaeding
also, LOL sanchez. Saints/colts superbowl FTW. That would be awesome, and it’s what everyone wants to see anyways.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
all im sayin is that if mark sanchez can lead a team deep inot the playoffs maybe it wouldnt be crazy to draft a qb with the #13 pick insteand of OL
This must be chasm
MUST BE. MUST….RESIST…URGE..TO…YELLLLLL ARRRGGGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHGHGHGHGHG.
I know you’re not serious, but there are people who actually think that. Those people annoy me.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Mark Sanchez is turning into a winner before our eyes. And Philip Rivers is turning out of one.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 17, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Phillip Rivers doesn’t have “it.” I know “it” when I see “it”, and he doesn’t have “it.”
If he wins the Super Bowl next year, he’ll have had “it” the whole time, but “it” is currently in a cocoon stage. Maybe “it” is in a pupa stage. Don’t know.
“It.”
Is "it" a fucking awesome defense?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 17, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions
I can’t help but root passionately for Not Cowboys, so I was rooting for the Vikings. Now that’s done, so it’s Saints/Colts all the way.
"rooting for the viknslkajine"
those words can’t even escape my mouth.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
It's not just him
it’s that whole team. I hate every single fucking player on that team now. He’s definitely at the top of the list, though.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Maybe if the Vikings win the Super Bowl, Brett Favre will retire for real and for good since he went out on top.
"meh"
Fuck and no
for the love of god
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Vikings lose next week 24-21. Favre thinks he’s so close and returns to the Vikings next year. Vikings win, he retires, they put in Jackson and Minn goes back to 8-8.
"meh"
no
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
You have to suffer a bit to get what you want. A Vikings title would be they would be back to mediocrity next year and you won’t hear from them anymore (maybe even a move to LA).
"meh"
What?
why the hell would they move a team that just won a title? No fucking way. If they win a superbowl I’ll never hear the end of it from the douchebags around here.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
They are one of 5 teams on the list of possibles to LA: Minnesota, Jacksonville, San Diego and the 2 Bay Area teams.
"meh"
Yeah
but if they win a superbowl I have a really hard time imagining them moving.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 18, 2010 12:35 AM PST up reply actions
The 1980 Oakland Raiders won the Super Bowl. They had sell out crowds for years and moved to LA in 1982.
"meh"
From your mouth to god's ear
except for the superbowl part.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
FLAGGED
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 18, 2010 12:35 AM PST up reply actions
RACIST
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.
by natteringnabob on Jan 18, 2010 6:22 AM PST up reply actions
Yes! Vikings!
What did I say last week? The Cowboys are no problem for the Vikings. Defense wins playoff games. What can I say, the Niners are on the same path, with the D-Line and the linebacking corps. I think if they follow a not-Brett Favre avenue to offensive success, they could make me a really happy Niner-Viking fan with both in the playoffs (head-to-head, I root 49ers, of course).
Saints-Vikings… now that’ll be a game. Rooting for Vikings-Colts, with the Vikings taking it!
Let's Play a Lineup Game!
The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga
Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey
The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5
Fuck the vikings
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 18, 2010 11:13 PM PST up reply actions
From the inbox!
Are you serious? A picture including Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire and you have the nerve to label them as Pol Pot and Mengele? Do you know how insensitive and insulting this is? You have no class if you must joke about such abhorrent people. I don’t care what pro atheletes have done there is absolutely no reason you should be calling them Mengele. This never should have made it past the editor but now that it has, it should be taken down. I am completely enraged and plan to find out where I can complain (outside of your site), so that you are monitored and to make sure you don’t do this again. Disgusting, insulting, insensetive.
Oooo, a caption reader.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 18, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
lol the editor
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Disgusting, insulting, insensetive.
What a chi…lling thing to read.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 18, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
oh my fucking god
people like this really do exist.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Jan 18, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
McGwire got a standing ovation from Cardinals fans during an appearance at the Cardinals version of Fan Fest. I don’t have a problem with their “He’s our steroid user” but I bet these are the same people who booed Bonds because he “cheated”.
"meh"
To each fanbase their own.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Jan 18, 2010 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
Yikes
Another “everyone was doing it so it should be okay” post. God, I can’t stand this argument.
McGwire shouldn’t get in the Hall of Fame because he cheated and took illegal drugs. It has nothing to do with his apology or anything else. Bonds. Sosa, Clemens and the rest are the same. Once you start letting cheaters in the Hall, you might as well start a new Hall of Fame for actual deserving players. What scares me is a lot of people share your awful opinion.
I AGREE!
DO YOU HEAR THAT, HANK AARON!! WE ARE COMING FOR YOU, NEXT!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 19, 2010 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
Cheats!!
Baseball has seen the use of drugs since the …?
I mean that cocaine was in common use as was marijuana and some of the players (even Hall of Famers) were users…both before they were illegal and after.
Cocaine was even in the original recipe of Coca Cola.
Back in the 80’s the security made you put out your doobie if they caught you, but the storng odor of marijuana was prevalent behind the Giant’s dugout…because that is where it was coming from. Top level hitters used cocaine to heighten their reactions and for some it worked so well they ended up in the Hall…others flopped when they quit. One of the best AL players of the late 70’s and early 80’s quit and was never close to the same. Another group had down years immediately after quitting and played well again thereafter, however none of them ever hit for as high an average.
And steroids have been around since about 1960, but grew in stature…and what about speed? Greenies became popular in the 50’s and you never hear Mays or Aaron or any players of that era saying anything about them…for a reason…my former player friends tell me that about 80% of the player they knew used, even in the minor leagues.
Finally, many players used steroids before they were outlawed, just as McGwire used Andro before it was banned. How do you differentiate between the legal and illegal use when it shifted during the careers of some of these players?
Food for thought….maybe a little too much to chew on.
Hall?
Where does the line get drawn?
Just the ones we know about versus those we don’t?
Throw out the era entirely?
What about pitchers who used that we don’t know about?
Barry was a first ballot HOFer before he used, same with ARod, McGwire hit 49 hrs as a rookie…would have have hit 500 anyway?
Palmiero had 3000 hits, so if you ignore the HRs should he get in anyway? (Plus he played some sweet 1B for awhile)
And the list goes on
Do we know if Ryan, Glavine, Smoltz, etc. ever used?
We do know about Gagne, but what about some of the other great relievers.
I happen to know a couple who would use any edge they could find to be at the top and win a ring…I don’t know if they used, but it wouldn’t surprise me.
I (statute of limitations has run) admit to using cocaine back in the late 70’s and early 80’s and shared lines with a couple future HOFers and have first or extremely close second-hand knowledge of some others….should they get the boot because they seemed to have gained an edge and most certainly thought they were.
And there was one with a precipitous drop-off after he quit….if he had maintained his level of play another 4 or 5 years, he would certainly have made the Hall, but instead all of his numbers dropped after 5 straight spectacular years on cocaine.
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