Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Are The Orioles Bad Or Unlucky With Their Young Pitching?

As the roster fills....

The April roster, as it looks from a cold day in January:

Star-divide

Aaron Rowand – CF
Freddy Sanchez – 2B
Mark DeRosa – LF
Pablo Sandoval – 3B
Aubrey Huff – 1B
Nate Schierholtz – RF
Edgar Renteria – SS
Buster Posey – C

Other Catcher
Eugenio Velez
Andres Torres
Juan Uribe
Travis Ishikawa

Tim Lincecum
Matt Cain
Barry Zito
Jonathan Sanchez
Madison Bumgarner

Brian Wilson
Jeremy Affeldt
Sergio Romo
Brandon Medders
Dan Runzler

Thoughts:

  • Three open spots, with at least one going to a reliever. There’s probably only one spot left for a position player. Kevin Frandsen? Fred Lewis? Probably not. I’ll guess it’s Ryan Rohlinger, with Lewis and Frandsen sent to another team.
  • Fred Lewis might be the best outfielder of the five listed – note that I’m not a rabid Lewis partisan, either – but I’d rather have a right-handed fourth outfielder like Matt Murton or Jonny Gomes rather than Lewis as the last option on the bench, especially if Ishikawa is going to hang around.
  • Posey isn’t the eighth-most talented hitter on the team, but I’m assuming they’ll bat him eighth to take some pressure off, which is a move I don’t disagree with. By May, I’m hoping he’s obviously the best choice to lead off.
  • I’d prefer any of the following to Bumgarner starting in the majors: Erik Bedard, John Smoltz, Pedro Martinez, Ben Sheets, Doug Davis, and maybe Jose Contreras. It’s not that I think everyone in that list would outperform Bumgarner, but I’d prefer he start in AAA. A lot of those names are going to be way too expensive for a fifth starter, but if the Giants find an extra $5M in the pocket of a coat they haven’t worn in a while, I’d like them to revisit the Randy Johnson gambit from last offseason.
  • The priority now that Huff has fixed the offense on his own should be another reliever. Kiko Calero was a dandy idea, as was Chan Ho Park. There are quite a few options left. Just as it was important to find a way to get Velez out of the starting lineup, so it goes for Merkin Valdez in the bullpen. As the long man, I can live with it. As a reliever who has to pitch high-leverage innings, forget about it.
  • I’d start Bowker over Schierholtz, but that’s because I’m giddy about Bowker’s improved walk rate last year. That’s the kind of thing that should be rewarded. And if Schierholtz complained, I’d poke him in the chest with a grubby little coach finger and say, "Hey, pal, mix in a walk every couple of games, and we’ll revisit the situation." But I’m not offended that Schierholtz is getting the chance. Maybe he won't swing at those pesky hit-by-pitch-sliders this year.

Comment 1144 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

this almost looks like a major league team

A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.

by wjackalope on Jan 12, 2010 1:54 PM PST reply actions  

Still only one good hitter. It wouldn’t even be that surprising if Sandoval’s the only Giant to post an OPS+ over 100, although Rowand, Derosa, Huff, and Sanchez probably all have a shot at it, so hopefully that won’t happen. It’s close to a given that Sandoval will be the only one over 110, though.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Something overlooked from last year—and I know it’s a small sample size—is that Torres posted an OPS+ of 124. I’d like to see Schierholz get a chance, but why start someone with an OPS+ of 81 over someone with an OPS+ of 124? Defense won’t make up the 40 points, plus with all of his time in the minors he might qualify as a grizzly vet in Bochy’s mind.

by The Neuschler on Jan 13, 2010 4:44 AM PST up reply actions  

That is an interesting point but the most pertinent one is why was Winn still getting the lion’s shares of PA vs LHP after Flag Day? By July 1st it was pretty obvious, at best, ’09 was a lost season for Winn for the 35 year old vs LHP ( 384 OPS for the season) and both Torress and Nate were posting much more encouraging numbers (better than 1000 OPS vs LHP for the season) but in still limited roles.

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 13, 2010 7:50 AM PST up reply actions  

LHH V LHP DOES NOT COMPUTE.

MUST INITIALIZE SWITCH HITTER V. LHH.

-Bruce Bochy

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 13, 2010 9:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Doh,

LHP

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 13, 2010 9:06 AM PST up reply actions  

The main reason Torres' OPS was higher than Nate's...

…is because he faced fewer RHPs.

Torres 2009:
vs LHP .338/.397/.718 , 1.116 OPS in 78 PAs.
vs RHP .210/.297/.370, .667 OPS in 92 PAs.

Schierholtz 2009:
vs LHP .370/.397 /.630, 1.026 OPS in 58 PAs.
vs RHP.242/. 280 /.346, .626 OPS in 250 PAs.

So they both struggled against righties last year, but Schierholtz got more opportunities. In Schierholtz’s case the reverse split may be a fluke (since his minor league splits show a more conventional split, .817 vs LHP / .881 vs RHP) while Torres’ split is in the same direction as (although much larger than) his minor league split (.828 vs LHP / .802 vs RHP).

In short, if we give Torres more starts, there’s every reason to think he’ll suck at least as much as Schierholtz.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Jan 13, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

This lineup is horseshit. This looks like major league suck to me.

Pablo, a young guy, and a tasty compliment of grizzly vet savvy sucky overpaid hackers

by drunkgiant on Jan 12, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Sabean’s offensive philosophy, in a nutshell

by Wazl on Jan 12, 2010 11:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Almost

Randy Hahn: "I’ve been referred to as a playa…"

by 49er16 on Jan 12, 2010 5:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Whatever happened to OGC's Stealth Rebuild?

Not a lot of rebuilding going on here.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 12, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

THE STEALTH REBUILD IS OVER

WORLD SERIES HERE WE COME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jan 12, 2010 6:17 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Sandoval, Posey, And Schierholtz Are Three Of The Projected Starting 8

Two of the five veterans have their contracts expire after this year (Huff and Renteria) and two more after next year (F.Sanchez and DeRosa). Looks to me that the rebuild is indeed continuing while also staying competitive in the mean time.

by giantsrainman on Jan 12, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions  

This team has way too much money in veterans to be considered rebuilding.

This team was never rebuilding.

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Every Team Has Their Money In Veterans

Young unproven players are not even arbitration eligible.

by giantsrainman on Jan 12, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Marlins payroll: 30m, Giants payroll: 100 m

and I bet their records will be pretty close.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Both have Sports, and the Breakfast Club soundtrack, so they are off to a great start.

/futurama reference.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:19 PM PST up reply actions  

The whole point of Rebuilding is to eschew veterans. Rebuilding teams don’t sign 2 vets each year, like this team has done for the last 4-5 years.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

"The Kids": Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

"Sabean's Vets": Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

"The Kids's" CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
"Sabean's Vets" CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:28 PM PST up reply actions  

technically,

Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Posey, Sandoval, Schierholtz, Ishikawa, Baumgarner and Velez are young and relatively new on the scene

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 10:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Velez is at least 28 if memory serves. That’s not young. My guess is that Schierholtz is 26, and so that’d be a stretch to consider him “young.” Entering his prime, perhaps; young, no.

by speckops on Jan 12, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I mean in terms of MLB

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 10:34 PM PST up reply actions  

well

28 isn’t really young for any sport. By the time someone’s 28, they are what they are.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

point taken on Velez

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions  

but

Lewis at least has some value. He can get on base pretty well.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

He’s really good at not swinging at pitches out of the zone.

Like, really good.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:52 PM PST up reply actions  

So good that he doesn't even swing at pitches IN the zone!

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

No he’s actually right near the pack in Z-Swing%.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 11:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Name		O-Swing%Z-SWing% 
Andres Torres	29.10%	61.90%
Freddy Sanchez	35.00%	64.10%
Edgar Renteria	24.50%	66.90%
Emmanuel Burriss28.30%	67.40%
Fred Lewis	19.40%	69.60%
Rich Aurilia	30.60%	69.70%
Aaron Rowand	32.10%	70.90%
Eli Whiteside	32.70%	71.00%
Eugenio Velez	27.90%	71.80%
Randy Winn	26.80%	71.80%
Ryan Garko	27.90%	71.90%
Travis Ishikawa	27.10%	72.00%
Nate Schierholtz35.00%	72.60%
Juan Uribe	30.80%	75.50%
Bengie Molina	43.90%	77.00%
Pablo Sandoval	41.50%	82.90%

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 11:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting

he got caught looking a lot IIRC, but a lot of OBP guys do I guess.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:27 PM PST up reply actions  

A guy who swings at 41.5% of pitches out of the strike zone led the team in walks.

by taliesin on Jan 13, 2010 6:56 AM PST up reply actions  

HACKER EXTRAODINAIRE

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 13, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

LOL NATE

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 13, 2010 9:07 AM PST up reply actions  

His HBP-Swing% is off the charts.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Jan 13, 2010 11:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Something this team lacks. I think I would prefer Lewis to Nate if he can learn to play RF.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

so, you prefer the 29 who can learn to the 25/26 who is developing

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 11:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Lewis has a skill (OBP) that this team sorely needs

and isn’t AWFUL in the field, even though everyone thinks he is.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:08 PM PST up reply actions  

ok- so he serves the point that the team has a player on a low salary who serves a function.

when he’s DFA’d and the Padres pick him up, then I’ll complain about his treatment from here on out. If he gets playing time, I’d be happy too.

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Tim lincecum is a player with a low salary who serves a function

well, I guess not after arb. But how was that the point?

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:16 PM PST up reply actions  

the point

the Giants have young players who have come up in the “rebuilding process”

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 11:18 PM PST up reply actions  

"young"

for Giants isn’t young

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 11:19 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

This for Mothra Freaking hard. And Twice on sunday.

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 13, 2010 7:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, there have been a few I guess

but they still haven’t found a freaking hitter other than Sandoval, despite having the opportunity to sign some big-time difference makers.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Rebuilding status isn’t a function of the players coming up. Perennial contenders like the Red Sox have good prospects rising all the time. The difference is that rebuilding teams like the Pirates actively try to slash payroll with disregard to W-L.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Ergo, the Giants have never been rebuilding the last decade, and aren’t now.

That’s been high draft picks from sucking, but Sabean never changed his philosophy throughout.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Good points, dregarx.

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 12, 2010 11:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I hear ya, dre.

one counterpoint. Boston also can trade Manny Ramirez for Jason Bay. And it helps that cornerstone players like Ellsbury, Youkilis, and Pedroia came up through their system. And they found Hanley Ramirez. You need gems already in the system to prevent waiting to overpay Free Agents.

and this year they signed… Lackey and Cameron and Beltre

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 11:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Boston was never rebuilding…

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 13, 2010 12:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Counter to the counter point :

If you never play young players we never fine gems, or get enough pleasant surprises to contend.

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 13, 2010 7:55 AM PST up reply actions  

when does his arb figure get announced?

/cue someone pointing me to sometihng that google answers in under 109 seconds…

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 11:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Per wikipedia

January 5-15: Salary arbitration filing.
January 19: Exchange of salary arbitration figures between MLB Labor Relations Committee and MLB Players Association.
February 1-21: Salary arbitration hearings

by m34josh on Jan 13, 2010 12:28 AM PST up reply actions  

I’d rather play both.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 11:23 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions  

also that the young players have had middling success. We used to get excited about Kevin Frandsen.

The point is that they have recently drafted a lot better than they did five years ago. Velez was a random pick-up they got to go young. Rajai Davis was the same. Ishikawa came up too early, then changed and had a good year in AAA.

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 10:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I think part of the reason that they’ve drafted a lot better is because they also had much higher draft picks. I’m not sure Lincecum would’ve been on the board if they’d been drafting the #20 pick instead of the #10 pick, for example.

by speckops on Jan 12, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, but teams are rebuilding based on not using payroll.

DeRosa, Huff
Johnson, Renteria
Rowand
Roberts, Zito

Each year, they’ve spent payroll on dudes. That’s not rebuilding.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

"The Kids": Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

"Sabean's Vets": Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

"The Kids's" CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
"Sabean's Vets" CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:34 PM PST up reply actions  

The Marlins trade away their Tim Lincecum and Pablo Sandoval players. The Pirates do the same, and throw in their Fred Lewis, John Bowker, and Nate Schierholtz players.

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 10:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Roberts, Zito was in that awful final Barry Bonds season. Rowand came in to fill part of the Bonds gap. Renteria got a job because Emmanuel Burriss, Brian Bocock, and Kevin Frandsen were the in-house options.

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t see how any of this supports the view that the Giants have ever been rebuilding in the last decade under Sabean.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:47 PM PST up reply actions  

It doesn’t, except to say that the Giants weren’t rebuilding with major league ready materials. Those players came so the Giants could be “respectable” and not a farm team.

They had AA-AAA players who couldn’t fillthe gaps right away. Fred Lewis came up at a reasonable time. His bunion probably messed him up more than anything else. Kevin Frandsen’s achilles – not the Giants – prevented his development. Maybe Ray Durham could have been traded away earlier… The Giants still need a young SS and a young 2B to rise through the system once Sanchez, Renteria, and Uribe are gone. Who will do it?

You can’t sign other team’s protected AAA players. You have to trade for them. Matt Cain has been the best chip for a few years, but until now he was undervalued.

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 10:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Not tht Frandsen was going to be any great shakes but you don’t think making him shift arround the diamond instead of compeating for the position he was already trained for and was being held by marginal talent that either was less proven or cost many times more had any effect?

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 13, 2010 8:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Gotta think they are planning on a Burriss, Crawford middle infield by 2012 with one of the two playing SS next year.

As for Frandsen, the guy has hit .300 wherever he’s played consistently, including Sept of 2007 with the Giants. Still puzzling why he got jack consistent playing time last year.

by joethejet on Jan 13, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

It still makes me angry that they gave those 200 PAs to Burriss instead of Frandsen. Maybe Frandsen would have failed too, but at least there was a chance he would succeed. That decision directly led to the Alderson/Franchez debacle.

by taliesin on Jan 13, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

At the time there was sizeble contingant here that wanted Burriss to start the season in Frenso as SS because we know he had started his death spiral and that way Burriss could be used if the Spiral was closer to the end than we thought. Mid season comes Burriss has been sent to minors, has an injury and now you have no real way to take some of the playing time off Renteria. Sometimes a team just has to pay for its lack of vision.

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 13, 2010 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Sometimes a team just has to pay for its lack of vision.

like Luke Skywalker in Return of the Jedi
and me when I go to Lenscrafters

by coicoy on Jan 13, 2010 2:07 PM PST up reply actions  

/ tips cap

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 13, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

but DeRosa, Huff, and Uribe earned a combined $12 for this year. Was there a player worth that you would rather have?

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 10:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Not my point. Signing them means they’re not rebuilding. That’s my point.

To answer your question: Nick Johnson. If not him, Scutaro. One of those two guys.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I completely agree about Nick Johnson.

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 10:59 PM PST up reply actions  

maybe Scutaro, though he is as old as DeRosa

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 11:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Here's What I Like

This is an overall leaderboard for 2009.

Name	O-Swing%
Luis Castillo	12.20%
Marco Scutaro	12.30%
Nick Johnson	14.20%
Chone Figgins	14.90%
J.D. Drew	15.30%
Chipper Jones	15.40%
Bobby Abreu	15.90%
Mike Cameron	17.40%
Nick Swisher	17.40%

Lewis doesn’t qualify, but he’s around 16%.

Signing Scutaro and Johnson, trading for Swisher, and playing Lewis at the other corner would have been HAWT.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 11:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Mike Cameron?

Color me surprised. The more I learn about that guy, the better I realize he is/has been.

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 12, 2010 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

That made look over that list again.

A ton of those guys were available this offseason. Makes me think about how I was saying that the Giants shouldn’t have signed anybody because the options are bad, but I was judging off of stuff like age and WAR, injuries, etc.

This is the kind of stuff that helps everybody out but doesn’t get all of its impact measured in WAR (I think?), though some of it is shown in OBP.

This chart practically re-made my outlook on the offseason. And now I really hate what the Giants did with their money.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 11:36 PM PST up reply actions  

NO SWING THROUGH STUFF!!!

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Jan 13, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

If my memory serves me well...

Lewis’ O-Swing is so low because he watches pitches go right by him in the zone. And even when he swings at pitches in the zone he misses. Pitchers don’t need to throw outside the zone on him. I recall it being very frustrating watching him look at fastballs right down the pipe…almost as frustrating as Schierholtz swinging at a pitch that would hit his leg.

We just traded who for who?!

by BawLa on Jan 13, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Sounds like Ishi’s approach as well. Though it seemed that Travis would foul pitches that were over the plate and work deep into the count, then flail at crap and get himself out.

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jan 13, 2010 7:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Lewis is actually dead average in terms of swinging at pitches in the zone.

The average player swings at 65.8% of pitches in the zone. Lewis career mark : 65.6%. Last year it was actually 69.6%, which means he was more aggressive than most with pitches inside the strike zone.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jan 14, 2010 6:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Should a team w/ a $90m payroll ever really rebuild?

They should have been spending more on the draft 6-7 years ago when they were drafting later in each round.

by theimmortalbenard on Jan 13, 2010 8:46 AM PST up reply actions  

I bank the money and the roster spots for next season if nothing on the internal market looks good and I take a flier on Kelly Johnson. Or you could get a lead up guy in Figgens. Roll the dice ona #5 Starterr that might post good enough numbers and young enough to get you a compensation pick in 2011. Teh point is you don’t spend close to $20M for what is probably at most a 2 win upgrade when your talent level is not above 86 wins.

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 13, 2010 8:05 AM PST up reply actions  

They played A LOT of young guys last year. Not as many as we would have liked (e.g. Winn, Aurilia) but a lot of guys got their shot. Right or wrong some guys earned a spot or more chances (Panda, Nate, Torres, Velez) or didn’t (Ishi, Downs, Whiteside, Lewis) at least according to the guys who call the shots.

Some guys didn’t really get a shot, Frandsen, Bowker, and you can (and have) criticized that. I agree with that.

I don’t think they’re rebuilding, they’re trying to get to the playoffs this year. But, they also haven’t blocked any of the primary prospects (Pill, Burriss, Crawford, Neal, etc) with long term contracts.

Why the whining?

by joethejet on Jan 13, 2010 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

It’s pretty sad that we still consider Torres and Velez to be “young guys.”

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 13, 2010 10:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Vroom

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Jan 13, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 13, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I’m not really sure how you figure Velez earned a spot and Ishi and Lewis didn’t when Velez hit worse than either of those guys, had a poor stolen base percentage, and didn’t field all that well.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Jan 13, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

/DIVING CATCH

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 13, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Not justifying the decision, just saying that was the one that was made.

Honestly, I think they figured out that all three are MLB backups.

by joethejet on Jan 13, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions  

wait, what?

lewis definitely shouldn’t be a backup on the 2010 giants team

by sfoakbay on Jan 13, 2010 8:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Compared to the rest of the aughts the Giants did play a lot more young guys and they were rewarded with surpriseingly good win total. In fact once the team started going with more and more veteran heavy line up the farther they fell out of the race.

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 13, 2010 12:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Because I really wanted them to actually rebuild, starting in, say, 2007.

You know, Davis in CF (Winn initially) instead of Rowand, cheap pickup at SS instead of Renteria.

Then starting lineups with LF Lewis CF Davis RF Schierholtz 1B Ishikawa 2B Frandsen for a grand majority of the 2009 season.

That would have made my day. That’s why the whining.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I see.

I would have liked them to give Freddie and Franny more ABs last year too. Especially over Winn and Downs.

Yeah, Davis is an unfortunate situation. Started the year like oh for a million and then injuries put the giants in a spot where they DFA’ed him. I liked him, but we’ll see if last year was a fluke.

I think the pickups show that they don’t believe much in the guys in the upper-minors.

by joethejet on Jan 13, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Horrible Idea!

This team would of put up a fifth straight losing record!

by giantsrainman on Jan 13, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

No. You provided no evidence so neither will I.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 2:34 PM PST up reply actions  

If you could see the rebuild happening, it wouldn’t be stealthy, now would it?

by Evan on Jan 13, 2010 7:14 AM PST up reply actions  

/squints

Still can’t see it. Still upset at the fact I keep seeing Rowand at the top of the lineup.

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jan 12, 2010 6:39 PM PST up reply actions  

OMG WE’RE GONNA SUCK!!!!! CRAP!!!! not bad actually

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 1:58 PM PST reply actions  

he will if Renteria can’t hit

by coicoy on Jan 12, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions  

With Bochy at the helm, I imagine Sabean’s $8 million baby won’t be sitting any time soon, even/when he can’t hit.

by Wazl on Jan 12, 2010 11:39 PM PST up reply actions  

After sleeping on it, I’ve softened my stance against renewing my MLB.tv subscription.

by Every6thDay on Jan 12, 2010 2:01 PM PST reply actions  

+1

every offseason I too flirt with this idea, but once spring rolls around I can’t miss baseball in the evening. Even when the team sucks (ie: always)

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions  

How much is mlb.tv?

I just did the audio last year which I think was only $15.

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions  

It was 15 per month last year, and that allowed you to watch the game. Maybe you had more than just audio, and didn’t realize it?

"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane

by Useful_Idiot on Jan 12, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Audio is about $15 for the whole year.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 2:51 PM PST up reply actions  

don’t the Giants get blacked out though (I’m in SF)?

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

For video, yeah.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 2:54 PM PST up reply actions  

blackout map

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/67627/MLB_Blackout_Map1000x733.gif

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

sucks to be in Portland

no Giants, Mariners, or A’s. What a joke.

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

but you get to live in an awesome city, so there’s that.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

yum

Kenny & Zuke’s

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Best Reuben I ever ate was at that place.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions  

best p’stram evar—be sure to ask for lean if you’re so inclined!

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 10:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Clearly you’ve never been to Zingerman’s in Ann Arbor.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Jan 13, 2010 7:22 AM PST up reply actions  

wow thanks

never heard of that place, I’m visiting ptown next month (:D :D :DDDD) so I’ll check it out. You ever hear of the montage? I really like that place

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions  

one of my favorite spots

surprised anyone else knows that place. dying to get up there again for oyster shooters, mac&cheese, and a mickey’s grenade.

by dbcasablanca on Jan 12, 2010 8:39 PM PST up reply actions  

ross island FTW

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:01 PM PST up reply actions  

it’s the only thing about Portland that I know; I just drive though when I go to Seattle—all my family live there now. damn traitors.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 10:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Seattle is awesome though

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I think that was like parents’ favorite city, it is pretty neat, very quiet and just kinda cool to just relax and walk around in

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I do like to visit, but the bay area is like my ball and chain. Anything you like in particular about Seattle?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Only been there once

IDK I just like the feel of the place, at least from the little bit I was there. Obviously it rains 389 days a year, but other than that it was really nice.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:26 PM PST up reply actions  

seattle and sf have a similar vibe

which is not the same as the bay area and seattle having a similar vibe.

pro tip: visit Seattle in late August. That’s when they get summer.

They brew fine beer, the ball park is serviceable, the contrast between mountains and ocean provides stunning vistas.

If you go, pop on up to Vancouver,BC, and even better Vancouver island, if you have the time. The ferry is a nice way to go.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 10:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I was born and raised in San Francisco, then lived in Menlo Park after college. My wife and I moved to Seattle 8 years ago and fell in love with the place. When the weather’s nice, it’s absolutely stunning. Yeah, the perpetual gray clouds are a drag, but it’s got great food, great beer, fantastic views, lots of great museums and music, a wide variety of outdoor activities, and it’s cheaper to live in than SF. Plus the vibe is similar to SF, but definitely a little mellower.

by clevername on Jan 13, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

my mom grew up in Kirkland

so, we always zipped right through Portland.

Went up there for a spring break. Beautiful city.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

oh

and they also brew outstanding beer in Portland.

I love the parkland that they have on the river, separating downtown. Pretty.

Man, that was a beautiful trip. Was a stormy first day, my tent blew over at Patrick’s Point from the wind and rain. The next day was glorious, sunny with the sunroof open up the Oregon coast.

Or, I’m justifying the cost of the convertible… :)

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 11:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Heck yah

I can’t think of a better place to drive one than the oregon coast. Right on.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I need to make a trip up there happen this year, now that I’ve got me a convertible.

I also need to get myself back to Montana.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 11:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Just make sure it's the western bit

the eastern part is awwwwwful

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I went up the eastern bit

on my way up to Glacier, and then on to Banff. There are good points there, but the Oregon coast is truly glorious.

Oh, are you talking about Montana? Haven’t been to eastern Montana either, for reasons that have to do with it’s stunning flatness and such. Western Montana is amazing.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

yes

I was born and lived in eastern montana til I was 6. Thank god it wasn’t longer than that, because it is duuuulllllllll. Brown and flat. Eastern washington is the same way I recently found out

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 13, 2010 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Iowa is blacked out of life five teams.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Plus, you’re in Iowa.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Probably no truth to the nasty rumor that IOWA stands for Idiots Out Wandering Around…

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

All right, buddy, that’s my people you’re talking about.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 3:15 PM PST up reply actions  

lame

let’s make gross generalizations about a huge population! Because I’ve never met an idiot in SF, or Chicago, or NY, or LA…

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ll bet there was one more idiot in each of those towns than you thought.

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

(needs a sense of humor)

I’m from the midwest and I don’t mind jokes like that

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:19 PM PST up reply actions  

eh

the thing is is that it’s true- Iowa and most of the Midwest does suck. I just hate the attitude and assumptions that go along with “everyone there is dumb!” I hate that sort of elitism.

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

That is annoying. I’ve started to notice that when I meet people on the coasts. Even in Chicago.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

meh

fuck ’em

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought it was a joke

people who are seriously like that are douchebags.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah I’m sure it was a joke, hard to tell on the interweb. There are plenty of douchebags that seriously think like that, unfortunately. I’ve heard it a million times.

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, me too

lived here all my life and I’m just sort of used to it. Personally, I enjoy the coasts more than here, but I’d probably rather LIVE here.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Are you in Minneapolis?

I really like it there…I think I may have gotten too accustomed to SF winters to be able to stand living there though.

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

If you lived downtown you could just spend the whole winter inside the habitrail.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

It's really fun to walk through those hallways

rochester (where the mayo clinic is) is like that too. They have underground tunnels as well. It’s pretty neeto

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Have you ever been to Montreal? Their underground space is amazing.

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

No

canada is awesome though. I’d love to visit there sometime. Every time I’ve been to canada I’m always impressed with it

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s among my favorite places to visit! Of course, I’ve only visited in the summer…

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 5:01 PM PST up reply actions  

hahah

yeah this time of year might leave you with a different impression

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 5:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I take it

these tunnels are nicer than the long connector between all the 42nd St. subway stations in Manhattan.

Although they are very handy for buying pirated DVDs.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

montreal is pretty cool

we went there a cuple summers ago on a drive from vermont

by sfoakbay on Jan 13, 2010 8:31 PM PST up reply actions  

lol no

I was born in a town of like 5000 in montana. Then lived in a town of 12000 in minny. Now i live in fargo which is like a bustling metropolis for me.

Minneapolis is awesome to visit, but there’s no way I’d live there. I’m too much of a small-town person.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

how’d you become an SF sports fan?

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions  

my pops was born in san jose

raised me right

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 6:11 PM PST up reply actions  

JUST A SMALL TOWN GIRL BOY

by speckops on Jan 12, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions  

BORN AND RAISED IN SOUUUUUUUUTH MONNTAAAANNNAAA

doesn’t have the same ring…

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Man, I can’t even take SF winters

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I live in Nebraska

Currently, and my favorite is “I owe [the] world an apology”

by OmahaGiants on Jan 12, 2010 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Another Omahan!

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Iowa does suck.

No offense, GAA.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey, they’re more progressive than California on some issues…

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Like corn.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Jan 12, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Gay marriage is legal in Iowa.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

gay marriage isn't legal there because they're more progressive

Like California, it was legalized through a court decision. Like California, there’s a movement to negate that through amending the state constitution. Unlike California, it hasn’t been voted on yet.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 7:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Fortunately, unlike California, it’s excruciatingly difficult to amend the state constitution. My bet is that they will fail.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 7:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, that’s a big plus. That’s part of what happened in Massachusetts, too – it would’ve taken like three years to get something on the ballot. By the time it was possible, everyone realized the world hadn’t collapsed because of The Gays.

Incidentally: my wife and I got married in MA, right after gay marriage came into effect. We got married in Northampton, a famously gay-friendly town. My wife has a gender ambiguous name (Casey). There was nothing on the form about sex/gender – just “Party A” and “Party B.” She put herself down as Party A.

I’m pretty sure we’re on the list of gay couples married in Massachusetts.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 7:25 PM PST up reply actions  

actually

it has been voted on by the legislature – it failed.

It’s up for a vote again this year. If it passes, it has to pass again in 2011 or 2012, and THEN it has to be voted on by the masses. It’s very unlikely to be overturned.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

one thing Iowa clearly has over California

Less of a dumbass voter initiative system.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 7:26 PM PST up reply actions  

yup

stupid CA. Why would you make it so easy to amend the constitution? It basically renders it meaningless.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Seriously. If you can amend the constitution with a simple majority, what is the point?

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 7:28 PM PST up reply actions  

honestly

it’s harder to pass a school bond in CA than it is to amend the state constitution.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 7:41 PM PST up reply actions  

To have a state which reflects the will of the people?

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 7:43 PM PST up reply actions  

You mean to have a state which is ruled by the tyranny of the majority.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I usually err on the side of more democracy rather than less

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 7:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Democracy != majority rule.

Things like rule of law, protection of dissent, and judicial review are key components of any democracy.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 7:53 PM PST up reply actions  

And I don’t think California voters would ever vote away the rule of law, protection of dissent, nor judicial review.

Hence why I’m comfortable with an easily amendable constitution.

I guess I just trust people more than most.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I’d prefer that they didn’t have the ability in the first place.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 7:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Judicial review becomes irrelevant when the constitution can be modified by a majority of the electorate.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 7:59 PM PST up reply actions  

see: Gay Marriage.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 7:59 PM PST up reply actions  

No it doesn't

It ensures that actions passed by the legislature reflect the will of the people via the constitution.

How is that irrelevant? Sounds vaguely important.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

There’s no point in judicial review in that situation. Judicial review says, basically, that you can’t pass unconstitutional laws. But since the constitution is so easy to amend, you can. You only need to get 50% of the vote once and you can pass a (previously) unconstitutional law.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 8:02 PM PST up reply actions  

because the will of the people

often isn’t what’s best for the state as a whole

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 8:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Sounds like a great argument

against democracy

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 8:04 PM PST up reply actions  

you're right

I’m not in favor of democracy. I love me a democratic republic though.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

it's not an argument against democracy

It’s an argument against direct democracy. There’s a pretty big difference.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

“the will of the people is often not what’s best for the state”

In what way is that not an anti-democratic statement?

HOWEVER:

In the interest of not having to read comment scrunched up against the right side and because I don’t like political arguments on the internets, I hereby concede.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 8:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Because, as has been said, democracy and majority rule are not the same thing at all. Nor was simple rule of the majority ever the intent of the framers of the Constitution, etc. That’s why we have bicameral legislatures and presidential vetoes and all sorts of other checks and balances.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 8:12 PM PST up reply actions  

oh my god

there’s always at least one. Ignorance truly is bliss (not directed at jcb)

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions  

It has it's bad points for sure

Democracy: The God That Failed is an interesting read regardless of your political thoughts.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 9:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Ooh. I see from the link the author’s of the Austrian school of economics. Me likey.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

"The Kids": Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

"Sabean's Vets": Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

"The Kids's" CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
"Sabean's Vets" CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t like judicial review either.

I think that both the judges and the people (via too-easy amendment votes) are screwing with the constitutions, and bad things are happening as a result.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t think I’ve ever seen judicial review in a list like this before.

co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?

by kennv on Jan 12, 2010 7:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, it’s been a major part of the American system of government since Marbury vs. Madison.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure

I’d argue checks and balances like Judicial Review have had an undemocratic effect on politics in the US. Well, especially judicial review, which has usually had more to do with what the majority of 9 judges think rather than anything to do with the Constitution or public will.

co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?

by kennv on Jan 12, 2010 8:04 PM PST up reply actions  

The question is whether the democracy could survive very long if it didn’t have that check on the whims of the legislature.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 8:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Supreme courts are important

in fragmented polities like the US or Germany or Brazil- places with states and multiple branches and so on – in order to adjudicate intergovernmental disputes. But judicial review is hardly a democratic institution. Places with less of a common law tradition (that is judge made law tradition) have gotten by okay without big judicial review powers in the courts. This includes IMO Germany, and also IIRC most non-UK states in Europe.

Why (or how) does having three separate branches involved in lawmaking help democracy? It just confuses things and reduces accountability.

co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?

by kennv on Jan 12, 2010 8:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Difficult to say.

Most non-US countries have the non-institutional check of a highly fractured party system, which forces larger parties to pander to smaller parties in order to build a majority coalition. Is that really a democratic institution? As far as I’m aware, there’s never been a stable, functional democracy without strong checks (institutional or otherwise) in place to limit and regulate democratic authority

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jan 12, 2010 11:46 PM PST up reply actions  

My problem with the support for the practice of judicial review (as it stands now, in the 20th-21st century) is that it was not a “check” that was either intended or desired when the constitution itself was written.

I omit the 19th century because I haven’t solidified my position in support of or against Marbury v. Madison, but I am totally against the rule-twisting and rule-making that the courts have in this day and age.

The intended check on the legislative branch was the executive branch, and the states, who don’t even count now after the 18th Amendment (replaced state appointment of senators with direct vote) took them completely out of the legislative process. The two houses were intended to have different voting bases, but the Progressives unified those bases and thus eliminated the legislative check within the legislative branch.

I don’t think judicial review beyond the rarest of intercessions is necessary or wise.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 11:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I do think it's necessary and wise.

At least in cases when politics or other factors have effectively prevented the legislature from making a ruling on an issue.

It’s not just judicial review, BTW, both federal and state legislatures have effectively delegated much of their legal authority to non-elected regulative bureaucracies administrations, simply because it is literally impossible for a legislature to make informed decisions in an increasingly complex society. Put simply, it is now impossible for a legislature (let alone the general public) to make informed decisions on the vast variety of complex issues put before it. The growth of judicial review is merely a symptom of this.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jan 13, 2010 12:04 AM PST up reply actions  

It is now impossible for a legislature to make informed decisions on a vast variety of complex issues because they are using their powers to intercede in a myriad of arenas in a way that they never did before the 20th century, and quite frankly, more than 70% of these governmental expansions shouldn’t have happened in the first place.

I think you’re right in your description of the causes of the growth of judicial review. If I may go even further, I see it as a movement that is concurrent with expansion in governmental powers in the legislative branch as well. (concrete example: the New Deal coalition and the Roosevelt Supreme Court nominees both had huge impacts in their respective fields while originating from the same ideological viewpoint).

So it’s not so much as a cause-and-effect relationship as a change in function of these institutions caused by like-minded politicians/judges/etc. And that change is one I oppose.

By the way, what does your sig mean? Is it a meme, or a code readers are supposed to try to unravel?

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 12:17 AM PST up reply actions  

I just want to say that this conversation has been very interesting and I am impressed with the civic and historical knowledge present here. I wish I could participate, but I just finished HAZWOPER 8-hour refresher training and my brain is fried (should have filled out a JSA! – joke fail). Additionally, jcb9 must be an insomniac because it is like 3:30 in Florida.

Also, this (It says "I’M WITH COCO):

Goodnight.

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 13, 2010 12:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Thing is

Judicial review is more often used for fairly sweeping statements of policy based on values rather than detailed adjustments to implementation based ion a deep understanding of complex issues.

Action when the other branches are inactive is maybe an okay bit we get from courts and judicial review. But I think it just takes the burden off those other branches (and obscures accountability).

co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?

by kennv on Jan 13, 2010 6:34 AM PST up reply actions  

It’s most (in)famously used for sweeping statements of policy, I think it’s most commonly used for fairly mundane but very necessary clarification of poorly-designed legislation and application of existing law to new situations which it wasn’t designed for.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jan 13, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Law should not be adapted to new situations. Legislatures should change the law as necessary. Laws should not be so numerous as to prevent the legislature from changing them when it is needed.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions  

That is a lot of should.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 13, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

hose are nice sentiments, but I don’t think they work well in the real world. In the real world, overly simple laws end up requiring concepts like judicial review because they fail to address the nuances of reality. Furthermore, in the real world, legislators simply aren’t qualified to address many of the issue posed to them, and the amount of time needed to sufficiently educate them would hopelessly paralyze the system.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jan 13, 2010 7:10 PM PST up reply actions  

IMO, you’re making a very strong argument for the further reduction of federal powers, and the removal of deregulation of current laws that the Founders would never have conceived of due to their intrusiveness.

Furthermore, in the real world, legislators simply aren’t qualified to address many of the issue posed to them

I think this is as good a form of evidence as any for dramatic reduction of the scope of government.

I know you’re probably not arguing that point, and you may disagree, but I’d like me some shrinking of government.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 7:32 PM PST up reply actions  

What would you say to the proposition that shrinking government power would simply leave a void that would end up being filled by institutions that don’t even pretend to be democratic?

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 13, 2010 9:12 PM PST up reply actions  

That many of those powers would be dispersed among the states, for them to choose which course they find most prudent, and that in those states, I would recommend a course of action that shrinks powers, those powers which would then be entrusted to local governments. Variation in communities befits variation in county, city, and state law, but the latter are stifled by uniformly imposed laws of the federal government.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions  

The economic pitfalls of 50-different regulatory systems overrides almost any benefits that could be derived by devolving more power o the states. Multi-state business would be hugely inconvenienced and possibly paralyzed by the need to cope with so many regulatory standards.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jan 13, 2010 11:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Not a chance. Businesses aren’t run by dunderheads, you know.

And who says all the states will engage in heavy regulation? Only the dumb ones will, and they’ll pay the consequences; businesses can move.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 14, 2010 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree.

Judicial review is extremely undemocratic and in my opinion damaging to the constitution, especially as applied since FDR’s Supreme Court appointees.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it goes back way further than FDR’s appointees – the pro-industrialist/capital courts were pretty active in making law in both a positive and negative fashion (that is what they made and what they didn’t allow).

co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?

by kennv on Jan 13, 2010 6:39 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree with Kennv here. This was going on the 1800’s as well.

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 13, 2010 8:17 AM PST up reply actions  

I didn’t know about that before but if it’s true then I disagree with right-wing judicial activism in history too.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

right wing, left wing even wings that no longer exist.

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 13, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t think that’s true on any point. Without judicial review congress and the executive would pretty much ignore the constitution.

I also have a really hard time seeing how 19th century decisions like Dred Scott were in any sense less activist than 20th century decisions.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Jan 13, 2010 6:59 AM PST up reply actions  

If judicial review was as you described it, only a process to strike down laws made by congress and the executive that are unconstitutional, then I would have far less of a problem with it. But it isn’t. More often than not, it is used by the Supreme Court justices to invent law, not strike it down. In fact, the Supreme Court invented the process of judicial review itself.

The Constitution didn’t include judicial review, and as written it didn’t need the justice system to act as a check on the other two branches at all. The veto power of the executive was specifically intended to eliminate unconstitutional bills, and the executive branch did not have the ability to increase its power without the actions of the legislature.

But the major check on federal power to uphold the constitution that has since been completely marginalized is the check exerted by the states. The states, per the Constitution, should have jurisdiction over anything that the federal gov doesn’t address. And the state legislatures had complete control over the election of US Senators. But the 17th Amendment completely removed the states from the equation, making it the Senate a directly elected body, and since then, the federal government has pretty much run rampant, expanding almost at will.

The judicial branch as a check on the other branches is much less effective than the check enforced by the states in the Senate. The President and the legislature appoint and confirm judges and can shape the court to their desires. They couldn’t do that with the Senate, and the state-appointed Senators would of course oppose any infringement upon states’ rights, which would necessarily preclude any violations of the constitution through expansion of government. Now, they don’t have to worry about the states.

Dred Scott was just as bad as 20th century decisions (note that it’s biggest vice was it’s infringement upon the northern states’ rights). The sum of the 20th century decisions have been more harmful because they have been more prevalent. As I said, the FDR appointees (was that the Warren Court?) really accelerated the use of the court to invent law rather than prevent unconstitutional law.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Warren Court:

Warren – Eisenhower
Brennan – Eisenhower
Douglas – FDR
Black – FDR
Frankfurter – FDR
Harlan – Eisenhower

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 13, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

You do realize that you just wrote that “the sum of the 20th century decisions” was worse than slavery, right?

by Evan on Jan 13, 2010 6:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Right. Dred Scott may have been bad law, but it’s nothing compared to the havoc wrought by Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka or Griswold v. Connecticut!

Seriously, “judicial activism” is one of the biggest canards in politics. “Activist judges” are the ones who overturn the laws you like. But judges who overturn laws you don’t like are “defenders of the Constitution.”

by taliesin on Jan 13, 2010 7:14 PM PST up reply actions  

The Constitution didn’t include judicial review, and as written it didn’t need the justice system to act as a check on the other two branches at all. The veto power of the executive was specifically intended to eliminate unconstitutional bills, and the executive branch did not have the ability to increase its power without the actions of the legislature.

I’m sorry but this is just wrong. First, because the executive standing as the arbiter of constitutionality would not work, but more important, it is historically inaccurate. The writers of the constitution assumed judicial review; it’s not specifically in there, but this is Federalist #78:

The interpretation of the laws is the proper and peculiar province of the courts. A constitution is, in fact, and must be regarded by the judges, as a fundamental law. It, therefore, belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from the legislative body. If there should happen to be an irreconcilable variance between the two, that which has the superior obligation and validity ought, of course, to be preferred; or, in other words, the Constitution ought to be preferred to the statute, the intention of the people to the intention of their agents.
That says the Supreme Court can overturn unconstitutional laws.

by taliesin on Jan 13, 2010 7:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m just responding to taliesin here, which is weird, but we’re pretty far off to the right. I’m starting from the top.

SF Pete, thanks for the info. It was indeed the Warren Court I referred to.

Of course I did not, Evan. Slavery was not created by the Dred Scott decision. And you know as well as I do that my point of focus was the use of judicial review to “invent” or interpret the opinion of the judges into the law in cases when unconstitutional laws were not being revoked.

Seriously, "judicial activism" is one of the biggest canards in politics. "Activist judges" are the ones who overturn the laws you like. But judges who overturn laws you don’t like are "defenders of the Constitution."

This is simply not true. If there were a Supreme Court ruling that used a judicially activist rationale to strike down a law I disagree with or invent a law I agree with, I will relish in the benefit of that particular law, but consider the net effect of that process to be negative. It sets a precedent for the other side to use a similar approach, and once both wings have adopted judicial activism, it’s a slippery slope to utterly subjective and politically-motivated Supreme Court judgments.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 7:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Please give a specific example of a “judicial activist rationale.” It is my experience that “judicial activism” is code for “decision I disagree with,” so if that’s not the case for you, give me an example of a case where the court, in your view, used something other than a constitutional or legal basis for its argument and resorted to judicial activism to arrive at a predetermined result.

by taliesin on Jan 13, 2010 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

My internet broke off for a while, so I have an old response to one of your previous comments that follows:

I found your other response to be really quite nitpicky. Going over it in detail:

The Constitution didn’t include judicial review

You noted yourself that it is factual.

as written it didn’t need the justice system to act as a check on the other two branches at all.

This is a matter of my opinion, in expressing that the executive branch and the curbs of the states with their control of the Senate as sufficient. Sure, additional bulwarks, if employed correctly, which judicial review has not been, would be nice, but I believe that only those two restrictions are strictly necessary.


The veto power of the executive was specifically intended to eliminate unconstitutional bills, and the executive branch did not have the ability to increase its power without the actions of the legislature.

I’m relatively sure that the first part is accurate. I’m basing it off of the uproar that an Andrew Jackson veto caused because he did not justify it via the law’s unconstitutionality. The second part is certainly accurate.
This paragraph is not historically inaccurate.
(end of old response. I’m looking at your other comment now)

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 8:28 PM PST up reply actions  

The veto power of the executive was specifically intended to eliminate unconstitutional bills,

Again, this too is incorrect. It is a purpose, but not the purpose. Not only do we have the fact that this is not in the constitution itself, we have Federalist #73, which tells us that this was intentional. After discussing the use of the veto to prevent unconstitutional abridgment of the executive’s power, we have:

But the power in question has a further use. It not only serves as a shield to the Executive, but it furnishes an additional security against the enaction of improper laws. It establishes a salutary check upon the legislative body, calculated to guard the community against the effects of faction, precipitancy, or of any impulse unfriendly to the public good, which may happen to influence a majority of that body.
Also, seriously, “nitpicky”? You’re talking about matters of constitutional law. It’s nitpicky by nature. You’re saying judicial review was not intended by the writers of the constitution. I’m saying it was. I gave evidence to support that view.

by taliesin on Jan 13, 2010 8:46 PM PST up reply actions  

We can discuss constitutional law, and in that realm being a nitpick is appropriate. But you’re repeatedly coming to the conclusion that particular statements of mine are false, and when I analyze the reasons, they are in some cases tangential to the point, and in other cases they draw upon words in quotations of mine that simply aren’t there.

For example:


“The veto power of the executive was specifically intended to eliminate unconstitutional bills,”
Again, this too is incorrect. It is a purpose, but not the purpose.

You can’t call this statement false on the grounds of its content. My statement referred to the use of veto power with a specific intention.

def specific: having a special application, bearing, or reference; specifying, explicit, or definite

The use of specific does not necessarily imply exclusivity. Therefore, it is factually accurate to state the prevention of unconstitutional law as a specific intention of veto power, because such a phrase doesn’t say that it is the only intention.

Now, the purpose of noting a factual inaccuracy in a person’s argument is that typically it will detract from the conclusions. But my conclusion, a preference for the states’ defense of the constitution through the election of senators rather than judicial review particularly given the various negative costs of the process of judicial review, is not weakened at all if this particular statement were to be proven false.

Which it has not been.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, your implication that this was the only purpose was certainly clear, since you noted an outcry related to an Andy Jackson veto that did not pertain to an issue of constitutionality. But I’ll grant you it’s not a major point.

Getting back to the point. Your idea that appointed senators vis a vis directly elected senators would prevent the passage of unconstitutional legislation is, frankly, laughable. They represent their states either way, so I have no idea why that’s supposed to make the difference. If you want to have a Bill of Rights, you have to have judicial review. And the framers of the constitution assumed that it would be there all along.

by taliesin on Jan 13, 2010 9:25 PM PST up reply actions  

The elected state legislatures held whatever powers the federal government did not take over. And they functioned in the election of senators. The senators were thus accountable to the whichever state legislature elected them. The state legislatures had a vested interest in impeding any bills that increased the federal government’s power in any way that was not indicated by the Constitution, due to the clause which delegates all powers not stated in the Constitution to the states. If the federal government oversteps those bounds, it is at the same time intruding upon the powers of the state legislatures. It’s a classic example of checks and balances.

The 17th Amendment, in creating a direct democratic election of the senators, removed the senators’ accountability to the state legislatures. It made the Senate a replica of the House of Representatives that differed only in numbers and lines of demarcation, but not in fundamental structure. Now the Senate is free to increase the federal legislature’s powers without fear of repercussions from the voting base.

Why deride an idea as “laughable” simply because it is foreign to you?

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 9:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I could, I suppose, grant that it’s at least plausible that Senators appointed by legislatures might be more inclined to protect the powers of those state legislators than directly elected senators would be. I rather doubt it (it’s still, at root, the same “voting base”), but even if it were true, it would only prevent the Congress from stepping outside the “enumerated powers.” It would still do nothing to prevent violations of the Bill of Rights (aside from the 10th Amendment, of course).

by taliesin on Jan 13, 2010 11:28 PM PST up reply actions  

interestingly

it would also export all the gerrymandered results from state legislatures like CA and Texas directly to the federal Senate. Worse, the sort of gridlock in Sacramento in recent years on budget matters is an example of what led them to ditch direct election in the first place.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 14, 2010 8:01 AM PST up reply actions  

No, no, no.

I mention Dred Scott only because it’s famous, but it’s also incredibly typical. If anything 19th century judges more often justified their decisions in the name of efficiency, not original intent.

Originalism has never been a dominant philosophy of judicial interpretation, mostly because it’s logically absurd. The constitution, after all, contains no clause instructing judges to interpret it literally.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Jan 14, 2010 7:57 AM PST up reply actions  

I’m going to have to ask you to explain further. I’ve not studied anything past a HS USHist class, and so when you start going into advanced vocab/theory considering judicial interpretation, I don’t really know what you’re trying to say.

I wiki’d judicial originalism and got a page with about 7 different philosophies. I think you’d explain it better.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 14, 2010 5:15 PM PST up reply actions  

You do know that FDR wanted less, not more, judicial review out of the justices he appointed, right?

by taliesin on Jan 13, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m sure Eisenhower thought that Earl Warren would espouse judicial restraint as a supreme court justice, too.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 9:40 PM PST up reply actions  

You still haven’t offered one example of an “activist” decision that you feel was wrongly decided. Which of the Warren court’s decisions so offended you? Brown? Miranda? Griswold?

by taliesin on Jan 13, 2010 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Everson v. Board of Education

Majority opinion written by Hugo Black, former member of the KKK, against the Catholic Church. Interpreted


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

to create “a wall of separation between church and state”. That’s a ruling well in keeping with his prejudices, and not in accord with the Constitution.

Non-Warren Courth: Wickard v. Filburn is one of the better examples. FDR wants to regulate, regulate, regulate. Congress is limited by the interstate commerce clause. So what do his jurists do? They rule in a case with a farmer and his crop that Congress can regulate his production of wheat under the interstate commerce clause, even though he was using it to feed his chickens, for the reason that other people sell wheat across state grounds.

But isn’t the point of the clause to regulate, you know, interstate commerce, not commerce that occurs exclusively within the state? Well yeah, the whole point is that the state should have powers of regulation of economic activity within their own borders, and the feds should keep their heads out, so as to avoid dangerous concentration of power in the central government.

Wickard v. Filburn: illogical ruling? Yes, in the extreme. But it sure helped out the President who appointed the justice (Jackson) who spoke for the court, the same President who put a scare into the court with his proposition to increase its number of members and fill it with his appointees.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 14, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions  

“wall of separation between church and state” comes from this letter:

Mr. President

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

I’m going to guess Thomas Jefferson was rather familiar with the intent of the guy who wrote the First Amendment — since he was a frequent correspondent of James Madison, whose views on separation of church and state are not exactly a secret in any case, and certainly seem closer to Hugo Black’s than to yours. So you stand by the view that this was “not in accord with the Constitution”?

Also, just to be clear, this case was not decided by the Warren Court.

by taliesin on Jan 14, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

If a farmer grows wheat for some purpose, is he or is he not affecting the interstate market for wheat?

This decision was unanimous.

It is interesting that this thread started, more or less, as a discussion about democracy, because this is a case where the people got what they wanted, or at least what they voted for. FDR ran in 1932, and was reelected in 1936 and 1940 on a program that advocated a much larger role of the federal government in the economy. Some people believed that some of his programs were unconstitutional, but this isn’t a black and white question where someone can say definitively how to apply different portions of a 200-year-old text to modern legal questions. Reasonable people can disagree. But FDR’s side won the elections, legislators friendly to his program passed the laws, and eventually he appointed Justices to the Supreme Court who were amenable to his interpretation of the Constitution. Democracy in action!

by taliesin on Jan 14, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions  

“Democracy in action!”

Yes indeed. It makes me sad.

Well, thanks for the whole discussion here taliesin. This was a cool experience for me and I enjoyed it very much (though mods might frown if I said one of my favorite things about MCC so far was a political debate I had on it).

To be clear: I still am a big opponent of the final decisions in both court cases we went over. But I will be looking over your information on Madison and Jefferson with interest.

I began this thread with a rather extreme view of judicial review (“who needs it”) and my opinion of it has been greatly ameliorated. I still have a rock-solid opposition to what I see as judicial activism, which will probably not change even if we posted a sequence of 1000 more posts on the subject, but I will look back over the structure and history of the Constitution as it relates to the judicial system and the church and broaden my knowledge of such as a result of this thread.

Lastly, I was considering making a plea to experience in concluding here, as a high school senior unable to catch up to your depth of knowledge, but if you ended up being 16 years old or something that would sound kind of silly (oops, too late).

I re-skimmed your post, so one correction. The farmer was growing the wheat to sell to his chickens. It didn’t even leave his property. Even after your strong responses to other points I’m absolutely certain that calling that an act of interstate commerce is pretty silly.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 14, 2010 11:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I would just like to say that a lot of these problems would be at least partially solved if the president simply didn’t have the power to appoint judges.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jan 15, 2010 2:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, the farmer was growing the wheat to feed his own chickens. That is the bullet point, but the actual story is that Filburn said that the excess wheat that he grew beyond his allotment was fed to his chickens. He was selling some of the wheat. He really was cheating. The law regulated how much land could be allocated for wheat production, not how much wheat could be sold.

But in any case the argument made by the appellant was that if Filburn were not feeding the chickens with his own wheat, he would have had to buy it on the open market. Because the market is interstate and Filburn’s actions affected it, Congress had the power to regulate those actions. That view was persuasive to all nine justices, even the ones who had been originally appointed by Republicans.

It’s interesting by the way, that you cite this as an example of judicial activism, since the ruling in this case was to let the law stand. The Court didn’t “legislate from the bench,” it just deferred to the legislature.

by taliesin on Jan 15, 2010 7:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Because the market is interstate and Filburn’s actions affected it, Congress had the power to regulate those actions.

Nope. Interstate Commerce Clause:


[The Congress shall have power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes;

“to regulate commerce…among…states”

Not “to regulate actions that, if not taken, would ‘affect the interstate market’”.

“to regulate commerce among states”

The act of commerce can be regulated. Filburn sold all of his wheat within the borders of Ohio. This was not an act of interstate commerce.

Furthermore, the entire decision was based upon supposition: there is no way to prove that Filburn would have bought wheat on the open market; he could have taken from the wheat sold on the open market and fed his livestock.

This is an obvious violation of the Constitution. If you continue to support it using this laughably weak argument, I can only conclude that your reasoning is tinctured by your own political beliefs. The alternative is that you are too dull to recognize sense when you see it, and I am reasonably sure that this is not the case.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 18, 2010 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

The Court asserted that the power to regulate interstate commerce includes the power to regulate prices. Do you agree that this is the case? (Note that agreeing that it has the power is not the same as agreeing that doing so is wise.) If you agree that it has such power, no other decision in the case is really possible.

there is no way to prove that Filburn would have bought wheat on the open market; he could have taken from the wheat sold on the open market and fed his livestock.

That’s kind of the point. If Filburn had obeyed the law, he would have taken some of the wheat that he would otherwise have sold and instead fed it to his livestock. That would (marginally) increase the market price of wheat.

Filburn was selling milk, chickens and eggs that used the wheat as inputs. The problem is that this operation is completely scalable. Suppose Filburn planted 1000 acres of wheat, built a mill and a bakery on his property, and used all of the wheat to make bread, which he then sold. Would that be enough to make it clear that his actions affected the price of wheat?

It’s interesting that you think your argument is “obvious” and mine is “laughably weak.” You might consider that nine Supreme Court justices, including those appointed by Hoover and Coolidge, all agreed with the decision in this case. Moreover, what you are evidently wishing for in this case is “judicial activism” — you think the Court should have imposed its own judgment over that of the people’s elected representatives. And this is from someone who isn’t even sure if he agrees with Marbury v. Madison!

by taliesin on Jan 18, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

you think the Court should have imposed its own judgment over that of the people’s elected representatives.

No. I think the Court should have followed the Constitution rather than allowing the people’s elected representatives to subvert it.

The clause says, Congress can regulate interstate commerce. A man growing and selling wheat all within the boundaries of one state is not interstate commerce.

You can say by the argument that you outline that any decision to engage in commerce by any person affects market prices by shifting the demand or the supply, and that therefore any exchange of goods, whether it be across state borders or not, affects “interstate commerce”.

In that case, what is the purpose of containing a clause within the Constitution that limits the legislative powers of Congress to commerce among states? If the argument is assumed to be true, then that phrase serves no purpose. The only avenue consisting of these two choices in which the clause of the Constitution concerned holds any meaning is the one in which it means to deny Congress the power to regulate commerce that does not involve the passage of goods and services across state borders.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 18, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

No. I think the Court should have followed the Constitution rather than allowing the people’s elected representatives to subvert it.

What, then, of your skepticism towards Marbury v. Madison?

As to the case, you seem to think your reading of the Constitution on this is the only one possible. It manifestly is not. The people, ultimately, decide what the Constitution means, and they, through the election of their Presidents and Senators, have decided on an expansive view of the commerce clause. I think the country would not be governable without it; a pre-Ogden interpretation would leave the US substantially less integrated than the Euro Area. I think that would be a hard sell.

by taliesin on Jan 18, 2010 11:34 PM PST up reply actions  

You asked for this:


Please give a specific example of a "judicial activist rationale." It is my experience that "judicial activism" is code for "decision I disagree with," so if that’s not the case for you, give me an example of a case where the court, in your view, used something other than a constitutional or legal basis for its argument and resorted to judicial activism to arrive at a predetermined result.

I gave you a response, in the form of Wickard v. Filburn. You gave several rebuttals in favor of the constitutionality of the Filburn ruling, which I responded to in due turn.

Throughout, we have operated under the assumption that the meaning of the Constitution depends on the intentions of the Founders and the words within it. Here’s evidence:


…intended by the writers of the constitution….
I’m going to guess Thomas Jefferson was rather familiar with the intent

I made a concession previously (“I began this thread with a rather extreme view of judicial review and my opinion of it has been greatly ameliorated.”) and as I saw that the evidence on my side regarding the constitutionality of the Filburn case was rather strong I thought perhaps we could move to a concession from you (you don’t have to disagree with the decision, you simply have to admit that it was not in keeping with the words of the Constitution and the intent of the framers).

But with this response:


The people, ultimately, decide what the Constitution means, and they, through the election of their Presidents and Senators, have decided on an expansive view of the commerce clause.

you have abandoned the assumption of the importance of intent (of the Founders) and content (of the Constitution) in Supreme Court rulings. Essentially, you’ve upended the playing field and turned it on its side.

I’ve invested a great deal of time and brainpower arguing this point with you, under those prior assumptions. If you have more information to support Filburn’s adherence to the Constitution in language and intent, by all means present it. If not, a simple concession would be appreciated.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 19, 2010 1:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Like I said, this case wasn’t, even if decided wrongly, an example of judicial activism, but of judicial restraint. And certainly the justices did make their arguments based on a reading of the Constitution and the relevant legal precedents, which, going back to Gibbons v. Ogden (1824), have almost unanimously affirmed an expansive view of the commerce clause.

I have never been that interested in the original intent of the framers; it’s generally impossible to know what they’d have thought about a law that passed a century after their deaths, and that’s why divining original intent is not the primary avocation of constitutional lawyers. But if you say something is at odds with the Constitution even though Thomas Jefferson said it, or it’s in the Federalist Papers, it’s pretty plain that you’re mistaken.

by taliesin on Jan 19, 2010 7:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Like I said, this case wasn’t, even if decided wrongly, an example of judicial activism, but of judicial restraint.


Incorrect. If decided wrongly with regards to the Constitution, the case would be an example of judicial activism. An appropriate definition:

In a constitutional government, a jurist is said to be activist— in the sense objected to— to the extent that he settles cases on grounds extrinsic to the Constitution. It is ultimately the Constitution toward which the jurist is “activist” or “restrained,” though similar principles apply to the construing of statutes. The controversies which rage over judicial activism are controversies as to the extent to which jurists decide cases on grounds extrinsic to the Constitution, and in particular on grounds counter to the Constitution. That such decisions may also violate the popular will in some of its various meanings, or in its various manifestations through different government agencies, is another issue—important, but not necessary for the preliminary task of establishing definitions.

(Link)
At the beginning of the FDR Courts, United States v. E. C. Knight Co. (1895) prevailed; this case, which affirmed a limited view of the commerce clause, was much more relevant to Filburn than Gibbons v. Ogden and was not followed. Thus the ruling went against legal precedent. You have not disputed my argument regarding the Constitution’s language two posts up, so we can say that it did not follow the Constitution as well.

Based on the arguments put forth so far, the Filburn case is an example of judicial activism.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 19, 2010 8:23 AM PST up reply actions  

You’ll forgive me if I don’t accept the definition of some guy from the Hoover Institution. As it was originally used by Arthur Schlesinger, “judicial activism” was used to contrast with “judicial restraint,” which was held to mean deference to the legislative branch.

And I certainly did dispute your argument regarding the Constitution’s language. You can choose to interpret the phrase “interstate commerce” as narrowly as you choose, to include, perhaps, only transfers of goods across state lines. I happen to believe that GM workers who are building cars in a plant in Michigan are engaged in interstate commerce, and Supreme Courts of the past 80 years or so have agreed with me. But neither of us is necessarily correct; both are, in my view, valid interpretations of the Constitution’s language.

And now for my snide, vaguely OT remark: the Court that decided Knight is far better known for a different decision.

by taliesin on Jan 19, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Different judicial activism/restraint. I have been talking about judicial activism/restraint as regards the Constitution, not popular will.

Nice try though.

I’m pretty sure you’ve been talking about the same judicial activism. If not, then a difference in the definition of the key word we are arguing over certainly explains the difference in opinion, now doesn’t it?

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 12.6

by dregarx on Jan 19, 2010 10:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Different judicial activism/restraint. I have been talking about judicial activism/restraint as regards the Constitution… I’m pretty sure you’ve been talking about the same judicial activism.

Um, clearly not, since I have said over and over that the Filburn case is an example of judicial restraint, not judicial activism.

But of course that’s the problem with “judicial activism” that I’ve been complaining about. It’s meaning is recognizably pejorative but otherwise flexible.

by taliesin on Jan 19, 2010 11:39 PM PST up reply actions  

See last sentence.

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6

by dregarx on Jan 20, 2010 12:46 AM PST up reply actions  

The Federalist #42 (Madison)


The defect of power in the existing Confederacy to regulate the commerce between its several members, is in the number of those which have been clearly pointed out by experience. To the proofs and remarks which former papers have brought into view on this subject, it may be added that without this supplemental provision, the great and essential power of regulating foreign commerce would have been incomplete and ineffectual. A very material object of this power was the relief of the States which import and export through other States, from the improper contributions levied on them by the latter. Were these at liberty to regulate the trade between State and State, it must be foreseen that ways would be found out to load the articles of import and export, during the passage through their jurisdiction, with duties which would fall on the makers of the latter and the consumers of the former. We may be assured by past experience, that such a practice would be introduced by future contrivances; and both by that and a common knowledge of human affairs, that it would nourish unceasing animosities, and not improbably terminate in serious interruptions of the public tranquillity. To those who do not view the question through the medium of passion or of interest, the desire of the commercial States to collect, in any form, an indirect revenue from their uncommercial neighbors, must appear not less impolitic than it is unfair; since it would stimulate the injured party, by resentment as well as interest, to resort to less convenient channels for their foreign trade. But the mild voice of reason, pleading the cause of an enlarged and permanent interest, is but too often drowned, before public bodies as well as individuals, by the clamors of an impatient avidity for immediate and immoderate gain.

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6

by dregarx on Jan 19, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I must be too dull. I don’t see how this quote proves anything one way or the other, other than that the Founders felt interstate rivalries in commerce were injurious to the harmony of the union. Does it somehow show that the founders meant to abridge the power to regulate interstate commerce in the way you are advocating?

by taliesin on Jan 19, 2010 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Founder’s intent regarding regulation of commerce. I could not find even the intimation toward regulation of any prices.

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6

by dregarx on Jan 20, 2010 12:24 AM PST up reply actions  

The writers of the constitution assumed judicial review; it’s not specifically in there, but this is Federalist #78
…That says the Supreme Court can overturn unconstitutional laws.

If you want to have a Bill of Rights, you have to have judicial review. And the framers of the constitution assumed that it would be there all along.


"wall of separation between church and state" comes from this letter…I’m going to guess Thomas Jefferson was rather familiar with the intent of the guy who wrote the First Amendment — since he was a frequent correspondent of James Madison, whose views on separation of church and state are not exactly a secret in any case, and certainly seem closer to Hugo Black’s than to yours.

…if you say something is at odds with the Constitution even though Thomas Jefferson said it, or it’s in the Federalist Papers, it’s pretty plain that you’re mistaken.

Judicial review and the "wall of separation between church and state" are not in the Constitution. However, the first is in the Federalist Papers and the second is something Thomas Jefferson said in a letter (decades after the Constitution was written). Is it pretty plain that you are mistaken?

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 19, 2010 8:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Saying something is “not at odds with the Constitution” and saying something is in the Constitution are obviously two different things. One says it’s consistent with the spirit or intent of the document, the other says it’s literally in the document.

I find it bizarre that you are apparently keenly interested in the framers’ intent but dismiss the Federalist Papers as though they’re some sort of minor document. If you really want to know what the Constitution means, maybe you should read the explanation of the guys who wrote it?

by taliesin on Jan 19, 2010 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Your words, not mine.

I favor intent. You are trying to have it both ways. It is ironic that you are irritated because it seems to you that people label as judicial activism decisions they agree with, yet to justify two decisions you agreed with, you argued that one was good because the intent of the Founders made it so, but when the other decision ran opposite to the intent of the Founders, you suddenly decided you weren’t very interested in said intent.

Best be careful! One might think you are adopting such diametrically opposed assumptions in these two cases simply because you agree with them. ;)

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 12.6

by dregarx on Jan 19, 2010 10:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I never said I agreed with either of them! I was merely arguing on their behalf that they were not necessarily inconsistent with the Constitution. (I do happen to agree with Filburn, for the record. I don’t have a strong feeling about that Everson case even though I usually take a strong view on separation of church and state.) They both are defensible interpretations of the relevant portions of the Constitution.

In the Everson case, I think if you looked at “original intent,” the Court’s decision probably would have been shared by most (but not all) of the framers. The Filburn case would be extremely controversial, I’d guess, with guys like Madison backing the Court’s view and others, like Roger Sherman, taking a narrow view of the commerce clause. And this is exactly the point I’ve been trying to make: these issues will always be controversial, indeed they remain controversial precisely because the framers couldn’t agree on them in the 1780s. They agreed on what they could agree and left it for future generations to work out the rest.

You can’t divine “original intent” because if you had the power to go back in time and ask the founders what the controversial parts of the Constitution meant you’d get 39 different answers.

by taliesin on Jan 19, 2010 11:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Never said you did agree with one or the other. :)

Farmer grows wheat. Sells it to people in his state. Feeds some of it to animals and sells all of them within state.

And you say among the Founders, many would support a law telling the farmer, no, don’t grow that much wheat.

Color me more than skeptical. A group of leaders amenable to a break-off from a mother country due to such acts as the Proclamation of 1763 and the Stamp Act would support a command from the central government telling a farmer that he cannot do as he pleases with his private property.

Do I have you on record?

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6

by dregarx on Jan 20, 2010 12:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Madison for sure would have, because he always supported a strong central government. Probably Hamilton. Others, like Roger Sherman, Jefferson, would certainly not have.

Of course all of their views about regulating the economy might well have been different had they just gone through the 1920s and 30s.

by taliesin on Jan 20, 2010 7:18 AM PST up reply actions  

You believe that James Madison would have, for sure, supported a law that tells a farmer how much he can grow on his own private property, and would stand by punishments enacted against any farmer that exceeded his “crop quota” as dictated by that law?

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6

by dregarx on Jan 20, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, I think he would have. He believed in strong central government. For that matter, when they were debating the commerce clause, Madison wanted to give the Congress a general legislative power, but was defeated. So I feel pretty safe in believing that he would have been comfortable with an expansive view of the scope of the commerce clause.

But the problem with this whole exercise is that anyone can believe anything he wants about a founder. The founders didn’t live in a time with wild swings in commodity markets or recessions or bank panics. It’s just impossible to say what they would have thought about issues that weren’t even imaginable in their time.

That’s why these issues get hashed out over time, and the view that ultimately prevails is that of the people who choose the legislators and (indirectly) the judges who decide on the appropriateness of laws. There’s no other way.

But even if we could know the views of the founders on every contemporary issue, why would we listen to them? Their views and values would seem ridiculous to us. They believed in slavery, that women and poor people shouldn’t vote, and thought 20 mph was fast.

by taliesin on Jan 20, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

HAHAHAHAHAHA

What can I say? Your first sentence says it all.

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6

by dregarx on Jan 20, 2010 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

OK, well, your side has lost this particular argument a long time ago. You can try to understand the reasoning behind it, or you can wait for the Twelfth Imam to come and set things straight. But the federal government of the 1890s ain’t comin’ back.

by taliesin on Jan 20, 2010 11:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Just to be clear, “supported” I took to mean “thought was Constitutional,” not “thought was a good idea.”

by taliesin on Jan 21, 2010 12:10 AM PST up reply actions  

No, I’m not 16. I also wouldn’t say I have a real “depth of knowledge” on this subject. In college I took several American history classes, including one on the Revolutionary period. And I had a couple of undergrad law classes. But that’s about it as far as anything formal.

I’ll just say this, about the “depth of knowledge” that comes with being a couple of decades older. You will find, as time goes by, that many of your beliefs that you regard as unassailable are, in fact, open to question; that people who believe differently from you are not (as hard as it may be to believe) invariably ignorant or stupid. In particular, it’s best to assume good faith unless you have a very good reason to believe otherwise.

One of my favorite song lyrics is appropriate to the subject: “I can’t see the lines / I used to think I could read between.” — Brian Eno

by taliesin on Jan 18, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Thank you for the advice. I shall take it into due consideration.

On a related note, I’d like you to remember which person was the first to use the word laughable in reference to the argument of another in this discussion.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 18, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, yes, you’re a delicate flower, I’m sure. But I think you misinterpreted what I meant here, which is certainly my fault. I’ll try again: I don’t care whether you think my ideas are “laughable” or whatever. I am just the proverbial “guy on the internet.” But perhaps you ought not be quite so certain that you know better than, for example, Felix Frankfurter.

by taliesin on Jan 19, 2010 12:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Neither of us has the high ground to make such pronouncements to each other. Or both of us have the right to do so, whatever, I don’t know. For example, I could turn your last sentence on its head and say:

Perhaps you ought not be quite so certain that you know better than, for example, William Rehnquist.


The [First Amendment’s] Establishment Clause did not require government neutrality between religion and irreligion nor did it prohibit the Federal Government from providing nondiscriminatory aid to religion. There is simply no historical foundation for the proposition that the Framers intended to build a ‘wall of separation’ that was constitutionalized in Everson.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 12.6

by dregarx on Jan 19, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Have I ever pretended to be certain about anything? I have only been explaining the logic behind certain decisions, which you have variously characterized as “at odds with the Constitution” and “illogical… in the extreme.”

I’m certainly not qualified to take on William Rehnquist, though I would quibble with the argument of your quote there. There’s not evidence that all of the Framers intended to build a “wall of separation,” but there certainly is evidence that some of them did.

by taliesin on Jan 19, 2010 11:27 PM PST up reply actions  

It could be supposed by the tenor of your debate that you were in favor of the decision in Filburn, and this supposition was confirmed by your admission of that belief.

You are very certain in this belief, judging by your refusal to make any changes in said belief in the face of arguments on my part and the attempts to change the argument by declaring all points equally valid when unable to present a counter-argument to my criticisms of the decision.

This is substantially more than simply “explaining the logic behind certain decisions”. That’s putting oneself up on a pedestal of objectivity.

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6

by dregarx on Jan 20, 2010 12:41 AM PST up reply actions  

That last paragraph doesn’t read well. It means to say that describing oneself as “explaining the logic behind certain decisions” is putting oneself up on a pedestal of objectivity, when such an objective high ground has not been attained.

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6

by dregarx on Jan 20, 2010 12:43 AM PST up reply actions  

I don’t know why your arguments would change my belief about the case, since, not to burst your bubble or anything, they’re not anything new.

And I certainly did present counter-arguments to yours, the very ones made by the Justices who decided the case. That you disagree with them does not cause them to vanish from existence, nor does it change the fact that they are in fact valid arguments.

by taliesin on Jan 20, 2010 7:27 AM PST up reply actions  

The clause says: Congress can regulate interstate commerce. A man growing and selling wheat all within the boundaries of one state is not interstate commerce.

You can say by the argument that you outline that any decision to engage in commerce by any person affects market prices by shifting the demand or the supply, and that therefore any exchange of goods, whether it be across state borders or not, affects "interstate commerce".

In that case, what is the purpose of containing a clause within the Constitution that limits the legislative powers of Congress to commerce among states? If the argument is assumed to be true, then that phrase serves no purpose. The only avenue consisting of these two choices in which the clause of the Constitution concerned holds any meaning is the one in which it means to deny Congress the power to regulate non-interstate commerce.

I said this a long time ago. You never presented a counter-argument to it. Just so you know.

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Current Team: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Molina, Renteria, Schierholtz

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Current Team's CHONE WAR projection= 12.6

by dregarx on Jan 20, 2010 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I mean, I obviously read it, but it’s just totally unpersuasive. In the 1780s trade between states was a minuscule portion of the economy; most goods didn’t travel long distances. They didn’t have trains or steamships or trucks, and most everyone lived on farms. Almost everything was produced within a few miles of where it was consumed. It was just a completely different world from the 1930s.

Wheat is traded across the country; if you want to be able to regulate commerce in wheat in a meaningful way, you have to be able to regulate any transactions involving it. Your definition just abridges the power to such an extent that it becomes meaningless.

Consider this hypothetical. Suppose a state passed a law that said that for every sale of wheat wholly within its borders, it would pay the buyer 50 cents a bushel (effectively subsidizing in-state producers). Would that action be Constitutional?

by taliesin on Jan 20, 2010 9:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I’d have probably said the same thing until I lived in California and found out what a disaster it is. It could probably work if you had an electorate that was extremely engaged in public affairs and understood the issues well, but that does not exist in the USA.

And now, direct democracy has been taken over by (mostly corporate) special interests, who use their dollars to fund initiative campaigns to get sweetheart deals they can’t get through the legislature.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 7:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I trust the average voter on the street

a million times more than any state legislator.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions  

who exactly

do you think voted the legislators in?

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Special interests?

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 8:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Who do you think gets most propositions on the ballot?

State propositions are bigger money than almost any state legislature election, y’know.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 8:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Hmm

So it’s your position that your average voter is more susceptible to special interests than a state legislator?

Dubious.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 8:03 PM PST up reply actions  

My position is that California’s initiative system is so easily manipulated that it’s lost whatever value it might have once had.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 8:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Which is not to say that nothing I like ever gets passed that way. But it’s a bad way of making law.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 8:05 PM PST up reply actions  

IAWTC

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd say

they’re at least as susceptible. Most people just don’t care enough about politics to research ballot measures, so they’ll usually be swayed by whichever special interest pumps the most money into advertising.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 8:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

I believe in the people of California to make up their own minds better than their state legislators can.

I guess that’s where we have a fundamental disagreement.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 8:07 PM PST up reply actions  

You know, a few years ago, the state of California passed a proposition to ban the sale of horsemeat for human consumption.

At the time it passed, a study found no evidence of any horsemeat being sold for human consumption in the state.

There was a lot of horsemeat being sold for dogs to eat – the proposition said nothing about that.

It cost the state millions to have the initiative on the ballot, and probably more to at least nominally enforce.

Regardless, changing the constitution is a pretty big fucking deal, don’t you think? Even if we allow the voters to do it directly, I think it should require a two-thirds majority.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 8:10 PM PST up reply actions  

F*&$%ing Horse eaters!

I feel like the Jonathan Swift Society must’ve brought that initiative up as some sort of grand satire. Or maybe Yahoo!s founders….

co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?

by kennv on Jan 12, 2010 8:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Proposition 65 Warning

This site, your computer, the building that you are in, everything that you eat, and everything everywhere inside California’s borders, may contain carcinogens.

Have a nice day!

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 9:39 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

my personal favorite.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 9:40 PM PST up reply actions  

The people of California have established, time and again, that they want a plentiful supply of public services, for which they are willing to pay nothing. They are children. It’s embarrassing.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 8:13 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

rec’d

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 9:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, the politicians who have been in control for the last decade or two have pushed a spend and spend economic policy hard as part of their agenda.

They’re just as culpable. Their spending level is high enough where soon raising taxes isn’t going to cut it.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:58 PM PST up reply actions  

don't give the voters a total pass there either

$11 billion water bond? Gimme gimme gimme. Voters at the state level clearly do not understand that many of the bond measures they vote for willy-nilly MUST be paid out of the general fund.

For that matter, even revenue bonds aren’t properly scrutinized. I forget how many more years the “deficit reduction bonds” from a couple years back will be outstanding.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 13, 2010 7:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Good point. It’s not just them, but yeah, they are an issue too.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Definitely. People buy cheese whiz and Brittney Spears records! You can sell them anything. That’s why corporate special interests use the initiative process so much. It’s easier than buying legislators.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

+1 - Just say no to initiatives

Democratic Delusions by Richard Ellis

co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?

by kennv on Jan 12, 2010 8:07 PM PST up reply actions  

No, no, no.

Pure democracy has been demonstrated to be a bad, bad thing.

There hasn’t been a true democratic nation in years, because they don’t work.

It’s used as a catch phrase nowadays to describe our system of government, but it’s not nearly as all-encompassing a philosophy as you would think from reading the news and watching TV.

Much of the time, it’s actually bad.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

"The Kids": Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

"Sabean's Vets": Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

"The Kids's" CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
"Sabean's Vets" CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I know I said I was done

But I will encourage you to look up the example of Switzerland, which has the most potent form of direct democracy in the world, and which thrives on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_Switzerland

That’s all I’ll say about that.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 13, 2010 8:25 AM PST up reply actions  

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/30/world/europe/30swiss.html

co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?

by kennv on Jan 13, 2010 9:07 AM PST up reply actions  

We’d have fewer initiatives pass in California if we had their “double-majority” requirement.

Switzerland is also about a fifth the size of California and, in spite of the multiple languages, more culturally and economically homogeneous. They’re almost certainly better educated as well.

by taliesin on Jan 13, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions  

And it’s exactly because of that system that they’ve now added this abomination of an amendment, which contradicts the very basic values of democracy (in the modern use of the word. “Democracy” doesn’t mean “rule of the people”, which both you and mainly dregarx seem to be implying. That’s what it meant 2,500 years ago, in Greece. Words change).

A constitution that can be amended so easily is borderline useless.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jan 14, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Your second paragraph.

I agree with it so hard.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 14, 2010 5:17 PM PST up reply actions  

At a point in time. In the model of the US Constitution, the constitution represents first principles designed to stand the test of time. As such, it is difficult to amend, reflecting the belief that basic principles do not shift so easily with the winds of public opinion.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 7:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not so sure of that

But regardless, that wasn’t my point; my point is that allowing a simple majority to amend the state constitution isn’t necessarily MORE democratic in the larger sense.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd like to see

someone, anyone, who has actually read the phone books that come disguised as “voter information guides”. Those, and securities prospectuses, are perfect examples of the failure of “let the informed citizen decide!” Rather than exit polling state voters, I’d love to see a poll of voters regarding the propositions they’ve supported, and what they actually know about them.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 9:37 PM PST up reply actions  

the last go around there was a proposition on the ballot where the “PRO” section contained a statement by the authors of the bill urging people not to vote for it because recent legislation had made it irrelevant.

It still got about 45% yes votes.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Jan 13, 2010 7:03 AM PST up reply actions  

The thing that gets me is when some special interest wants something or other passed and they pay people to stand outside grocery stores and harass you to sign their damn petition.

I always ask if it’s a petition for a law to make it illegal to pay people to gather signatures.

They don’t like me very much.

by Merope on Jan 12, 2010 7:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I really think if I were gonna ever start an initiative campaign, that would be it: ban paid signature gatherers.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 7:53 PM PST up reply actions  

How much will you pay me to gather signatures?

by Merope on Jan 12, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions  

That's the beauty of it

You can have paid signature gatherers collect signatures to ban their jobs!

You might not have the most motivated workforce.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

There was a guy outside Safeway one Tuesday at like 10:30 for signatures, which is weird. I told him I was a monarchist, which given the crowd at that time might not have been the strangest reaction he’d had.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 9:52 PM PST up reply actions  

You reflect the will of the people by voting in legislators.

Constitutions were written to be nearly immutable; they are supposed to carry on while legislators adapt to changing circumstances with less impactful decisions, namely, laws.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

"The Kids": Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

"Sabean's Vets": Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

"The Kids's" CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
"Sabean's Vets" CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Do you know what’s ironic about that? The referendum, initiative, including the amendment of the constitutions by popular vote was a big part of the Progressive Movement back in the 1910s.

One of my least favorite parts of that movement.

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Florida is even worse, amazingly

Every initiative on the ballot here amends the constitution. In 2002, the state constitution was amended to protect pregnant pigs.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

why do hate pregnant pigs??

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

It really and truly is one of the beauties of American civil history—our (federal) Constitution is amazingly short, and yet, it really does cover a lot of the most important things.

by speckops on Jan 12, 2010 7:33 PM PST up reply actions  

/goes into a long rant about how farm subsidies shouldn’t be a progressive cause

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

is it?

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

No

Although I suppose you could make an argument that subsidies for small farmers, depending on how they were implemented, could be progressive. That’s nothing like what we do, and certainly nothing like politicians from Iowa (of either party) support.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Amen.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, I was talking about the gays anyway.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 4:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Blame Natto and his Monsanto-lovin’ ways.

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions  

“the gays”—MARGINALIZATION!

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 7:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Or just subsidies to improve the quality of rural life—like wireless internet, phone reception, public education, health care, public transport. Norway appears to do that and it works. Maybe a full on thread on this sometime.

cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"

by foothillsfan on Jan 12, 2010 6:29 PM PST up reply actions  

it's true

I just don’t get why people have to be such total assholes about it. Like, what point does it serve to point out that where you live makes you better than other people? I was on a flight from Chicago to SF during Christmas and sat next to a girl from NY who said she’d never live out here because of the attitude. It’s so true…people need to get over themselves. As if living in SF or California makes you “better” than someone else. Grow up.

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

pretty sure cornball lives in Nebraska

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I know

I was agreeing Iowa does suck- I grew up there. It just annoys me that people are so stupid as to think that I must be an idiot since I grew up there.

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I wasn’t a “total” asshole. I’m tired and didn’t give it my best effort.

Stay tuned.

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL someone from NY complaining about the attitudes of ppl out west.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions  

My thoughts exactly

by m34josh on Jan 12, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Beat me to it.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 4:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Quite simply

there are minor differences in culture between NY, CA or IA , not to mention the individual’s social network. They just feel uncomfortable in a different place.

co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?

by kennv on Jan 12, 2010 8:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

new yorkers are a lot worse.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

they think if you live outside the City

that you’re camping out.

These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx

by RDreamer on Jan 13, 2010 6:31 AM PST up reply actions  

As someone who’s from Iowa but left by choice, I guess it sucks in a lot of ways, weather first among them. But people from Nebraska talking bad about Iowa seems completely insane to me.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh Nebraska sucks, too. I want to get far, far away from here. I have heard good things about Iowa (Iowa City, mostly), but damn if I haven’t been bored off my head every time I’ve been to Iowa.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Also, Iowa has lower speed limits on 80 than Illinois or Nebraska and very strict speed limit enforcement.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

is this

how doctors decide where to practice? SUCK IT TORT REFORMERS!

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, yes it is. Speed limits are the key.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

higher speed limits…. more gruesome crashes…. more ER expenditures…. ka-ching!!!

by Merope on Jan 12, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Iowa City is ok, fun college town. Everything else is pretty “quiet” (a nice way of saying dull).

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

IC is a great town

Especially if you’re young. I lived there for several years. Anyplace else in Iowa is boring, sometimes in a good way (like if you go to a nice townie bar someplace like McGregor, overlooking the Mississippi), but usually not.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Doesn’t offend me. I just spend 5 measly days there a year.

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jan 12, 2010 6:42 PM PST up reply actions  

blacked out of life?!?!

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Crystal meth will do that to you

"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane

by Useful_Idiot on Jan 12, 2010 3:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I was going to say “college in Ohio” but will accept your response.

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Jan 12, 2010 3:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I read it as six

Cubs, White Sox, Twins, Brewers, Royals, Cardinals.

ILOLWA

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Jan 12, 2010 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

you count the royals as a major league team?

by sfoakbay on Jan 12, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Naw

Portland is real close to the border with Washington. Just M’s blackout.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions  

oh

on the chart posted it looked like SF and Oakland too.

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Now, the southern half of Oregon, they are screwed.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 5:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Jefferson gets no respect.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 6:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

But it’s partly his fault, he should have fired Florence a long time ago.

The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."

by ResDog on Jan 12, 2010 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

good thing nobody lives there

These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx

by RDreamer on Jan 13, 2010 6:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Ahh this is cool, I can watch the Giants while I’m in RIverside!

Hey Fred Lewis, remember Mother's Day?

by anotherbadexcuseguitar on Jan 12, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Yea :(

all local market teams do. So I can’t watch the Twins (oh darrn)

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Also, blackouts for Saturday day games (thanks FOX!), and whenever MLB feels like it for any or no particular reason at all (which their friendly phone reps will point out is in the fine print on the MLB.TV page).

I am very happy to be back to the Bay Area so I don’t have to put up with their crap anymore :o)

by KrazyKrabMeat on Jan 12, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I've never had games blacked out other than saturday games..

but that alone is fucking bullshit. Such a load of crap that that’s legal

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions  

it applies to Sun. PM too

and sometimes on weekdays, I guess… DirecTV didn’t carry an A’s roadgame in Texas on a weekday last year, when the A’s weren’t even on TV here.

I hope virtually every Giants game is on TV again; I don’t want to have to cope with whatever goofy rules resulted in the above.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

you should put an initiative on the ballot about this

These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx

by RDreamer on Jan 13, 2010 6:34 AM PST up reply actions  

unfortunately

there is no federal initiative process. Rather, thank god there is no federal initiative process but dadblast it why must the FCC preempt the states in this critically important matter?!

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 13, 2010 7:04 AM PST up reply actions  

If you have an iPhone/iPod Touch

Get the Gameday app. The $10 version gives you audio for the whole year, making it $5 cheaper than the internet version and not tying you to a computer. With my iPhone, I can listen to it anywhere I get decent reception (which, despite AT&T’s best efforts, is most places), and that’s pretty useful. Of course, both devices have Internet connections so if you are home you can listen through the Web anyway.

by quincy0191 on Jan 12, 2010 8:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh

And this website typically hosts the gameday audio for free: http://freebaseballradio.com/index.html

by quincy0191 on Jan 12, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I really loved having that this year. Plus they had a couple of video games included each day, which was nice.

Especially useful for day games, or when I was stuck late at work. AM radio reception is often terrible in office buildings, IIRC due to the steel construction?

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 9:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I really really REALLY hope

they put that on android this year. PLEASE

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I pay 20/month for the premium

it’s cheaper if you pay all at once, but I rarely have 120 bucks to drop on something. The premium is worth the extra money, because you can choose the announcers (no more awful NL west crews), and get better picture qualtiy

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

The choosing announcers thing is so key. The downside to the better picture quality is major lag.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

YEah

I usually avoid the higher quality, but it really is PURRTEE

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ll be 21 by opening day, so it’s off to the sports bar for me. Any suggestions on good places to watch a game in The City?

"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane

by Useful_Idiot on Jan 12, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions  

AT&T Park is pretty good.

I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean

by ringleader3 on Jan 12, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Does anybody else find that bar down the right field line with fans drinking wine, most of them not even watching the game, to be kind of weird?

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

In the lower or upper section? There is one in the lower that doesn’t even face the field.

I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean

by ringleader3 on Jan 12, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s right beneath the foul pole.

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I always thought that was a luzury suite you rent by the game, not a bar.

by m34josh on Jan 12, 2010 4:31 PM PST up reply actions  

It is. It’s private.

I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean

by ringleader3 on Jan 12, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions  

if it keeps them

from standing around talking on cell phones and yelling at each other (as opposed to the Giants), I heartily support it.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

i hate it when the Giants

stand around on cell phones yelling at each other.

Particularly with men on base.

These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx

by RDreamer on Jan 13, 2010 6:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Not to be chasmd but

my wife and nephew swear they saw Barry talking on his cellphone while warming up in LF one time.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 13, 2010 7:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I think it’s kinda cool. Though I am a bit worried that in 20 years the park will start to look and feel like Disneyland, but that too would be interesting, in an emberassing way

"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane

by Useful_Idiot on Jan 12, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I prefer the DirectTV MLB Package. I also have the audio subscription for those Saturdays that are blacked out (THANKS FOX!). I sometimes watch the other teams feed if the SF feed is not in HD and listen to Miller on the radio.

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jan 12, 2010 6:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Do your three open spots include the player named “Other Catcher”? I guess that’s why you say there’s only room left for one more position player.

That lineup seems marginally better than last year, but not 100 runs better. And it’s not the greatest defensive team ever assembled. But, hey, other than that, we’re all set!

"Those that drink the Kool-Aid, please leave the room."

by Kitspool on Jan 12, 2010 2:01 PM PST reply actions  

I've said it before.....

…..but I’m betting that Posey is in the minors and we have a veteran, gritty gamer C to pair with Whiteside to begin the year.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 12, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

No doubt

Torrealba is going to be the opening day starter.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Other Catcher
Eugenio Velez
Andres Torres
Juan Uribe
Travis Ishikawa

I know it’s true, but why’d you have to say it?

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 2:02 PM PST reply actions  

actually, really

the only change I’d make to that is nixing Velez for Bowker, starting Bowker and 4th OFing Nate.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

so the outfield is Rowand, Bowker, and Derosa? With Nate, Velez, and Torres for the other outfielders? Possibly Lewis?

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd say

DeRosa – Rowand – Bowker
Schierholtz
Lewis
Torres

Lewis more in a PH role, Torres as a defensive replacement, Nate as fill in when guys need rest.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions  

mostly

I want Velez off the 25 man roster.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Sounds good to me actually, i’m comfortable with that

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Torres could also be valuable as a pinch runner

"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.

by Goofus on Jan 12, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ94rkwdTvQ

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

the worst baserunning

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions  

OF THE GAME

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

lol

Bruce Bochy: Leave him alone, he's the Manager Man and his BORK is much worse than his bite.

by zodiac_chiller on Jan 12, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Didn’t Huff catch at one point in his career?

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 12, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Quick shot of penicillin cleared it right up.

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

A reliever? Really? With Wilson, Romo, and Affeldt on hand, a bunch of power arms coming up, and the usual gang of minor-league free agents and NRIs who might catch on, we need to sink money into another reliever?

by Evan on Jan 12, 2010 2:03 PM PST reply actions  

I have faith in Kevin Cameron to end up on the big squad

If they got Kiko as well, party bonus!

"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.

by hairball on Jan 12, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

With a lineup like this and no rotation depth to speak of, the bullpen really needs to go 6 deep.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jan 12, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

The Giants still need depth in the bullpen.

Randy Hahn: "I’ve been referred to as a playa…"

by 49er16 on Jan 12, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Does it make sense to keep Ishikawa around now? As a defensive replacement at 1st with some pop, I guess? I suppose you have to dump him outright otherwise. I’m not even sure what I think.

by BigO on Jan 12, 2010 2:03 PM PST reply actions  

The 2009 San Francisco Giants: You’re Not Even Sure What You Think!

"Those that drink the Kool-Aid, please leave the room."

by Kitspool on Jan 12, 2010 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

2010

Stupid brain.

"Those that drink the Kool-Aid, please leave the room."

by Kitspool on Jan 12, 2010 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

You don't even know what year it is!

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

put that after "2010 giants"

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Your 2010 Giants: Good as recently as 2 seasons ago

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

As a left-handed bat off the bench, he’s obviously not as good as Bowker or Lewis. He’s probably better than Velez or Schierholtz, but those guys win out for defensive reasons.

And anyway Uribe is platooning with Huff at first base, right? Who needs another one!

by Evan on Jan 12, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

He’s probably better than Velez or Schierholtz, but those guys win out for defensive reasons.

lol. VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 2:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Wouldn’t keeping Brett Pill as a RH defensive replacement make more sense?

Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.

by tedfordfan on Jan 12, 2010 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Not really

Because he hasn’t proven that he can consistently hit minor-league pitching.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

No, but there is absolutely no reason to think that Pill will replicate Ishikawa’s production next year.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Pill’s MLE’s make Ishikawa seem like an All-Star.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

MLEs don't count, remember?

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Crap, I keep forgetting. Maybe I should write myself a note that says “.828 OPS from a 25-year-old first baseman in AA is very promising!”

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I still don’t believe that Pill has figured it out. If he has another good year, I’ll be on board.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I think they should dump him if they really think Aubrey freakin’ Huff is a better player than him. It certainly isn’t worth using a roster spot on a bench player who can’t hit and can only play first base.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with this. After signing Huff, keeping Ishi makes no sense unless he becomes a great hitter and can make this laughable transition to the outfield the Giants are talking about (not laughable that he could do it, he appears to be a good athlete, but laughable that he is a potential option likely over Lewis and Bowker).

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 12, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t know. His ZiPS and CHONE are underwhelming.

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Jan 12, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

OVERRATED

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s a powerful book
-John Lennon
too soon?

Blehhh!

by Giant Homer on Jan 12, 2010 4:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree, if i were to hit someone with it, it would probably hurt.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I doubt it, I recall that it's pretty short.

Now Angle of Repose, that would leave a mark.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jan 12, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions  

War and Peace.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:18 PM PST up reply actions  

WAR

what is it good for?

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 11:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Killin’ Nazis.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jan 12, 2010 11:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Always, and only.

I'm just here for the Journey singalongs and to ogle howie

by shanghaijim on Jan 13, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions  

working title

of War and Peace

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 13, 2010 7:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I like that book

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 11:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Isn't that the sequal to Brokeback Moutain?

I’ve read it, but I forgot.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jan 12, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

No,

that’s the book where he fucks himself

by KrazyKrabMeat on Jan 12, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Fixed

that’s the book where he fucks himself all of us

by m34josh on Jan 12, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions  

That book sucks

Randy Hahn: "I’ve been referred to as a playa…"

by 49er16 on Jan 12, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions  

IIRC In Shoeless Joe Comes to Iowa Salinger was depicted as a Giants fan before he SPOILER vanished into the cornfield. (The movie version played by James Earl Jones loved the Dodgers. Both heartbreaks involved the teams’ leaving.)

I did hate that book, though I only read it once when I was a kid. I was like, Caulfield, shut up already.

I'm just here for the Journey singalongs and to ogle howie

by shanghaijim on Jan 13, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah I was in that field of thought where Caulfield just came off as spoiled and a whiny bitch, who was so upset about is his life even though he could disappear for a weekend, go to a nice hotel and get a hooker.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

#2 in Fanshots

by scout6 on Jan 14, 2010 9:19 AM PST up reply actions  

You need to work on your spoiler alert skills.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jan 14, 2010 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

The lineup looks just a little better than last year… But the giants just signed a reliever?

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 2:08 PM PST reply actions  

Such a shame that Frandsen doesn’t get a good chance for the Giants. He will end up being a good player for another team and we will regret trading for Freddy Sanchez

by kcasey1318 on Jan 12, 2010 2:08 PM PST reply actions  

HE HAD HIS CHANCE!!!

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

by WilliamVanLandingham on Jan 12, 2010 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Somehow I automatically read that comment as about FLew

Was set to respond that kcasey1318 still had such a beautiful innocence, and then saw that it was about Frandsen, and was like, fuck it.

"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.

by hairball on Jan 12, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ll miss everything about Frandsen, except his whining , his sense of entitlement and his disappointing play.

I’ve never seen a player act so much like he’d “arrived” when in reality he was clinging to a spot on the big-league roster.

"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.

by Goofus on Jan 12, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

He had a way of really getting on my nerves

"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane

by Useful_Idiot on Jan 12, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Frandsen

your future mayor of Fresno (or Reno, or Salt Lake, or Portland…)

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

except his whining , his sense of entitlement and his disappointing play.

Giants fan! =D

I'm just here for the Journey singalongs and to ogle howie

by shanghaijim on Jan 13, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Other internal 5th starter candidates

I wouldn’t be opposed to starting out with Kevin Pucetas and/or Joey Martinez in the 5th starter/long-reliever roles, preferably in that order, because Martinez’s propensity to get ground balls might actually come in handy in the bullpen.

Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.

by tedfordfan on Jan 12, 2010 2:09 PM PST reply actions  

Of course!

I hadn’t thought of Martinez. Sometimes you don’t see the the obvious answer until it hits you in the head.

"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.

by Goofus on Jan 12, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

FoJM

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Jan 12, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I was all “HEY JOEY!” last year, but I’m thinking of adopting someone new this year.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

JOEY MARTINEZ WILL BE UP FOR ADOPTION?

Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Jan 12, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Your enthusiasm raises red flags with the adoption agency. Background check initiated.

I'm just here for the Journey singalongs and to ogle howie

by shanghaijim on Jan 13, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t either, but injuries happen & wouldn’t like having to rely on those two for 40% of the games.

The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."

by ResDog on Jan 12, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions  

slightly OT

Amirite to think that we need to drop a player from the 40-man when Huff is added? If not, well, I’ve really been scouring the interweb for no good reason (nothing new). If so, do we think it’ll Franny? Or what?

by BigO on Jan 12, 2010 2:10 PM PST reply actions  

Maybe Franny or a fringe bullpen guy.

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Jan 12, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Hinshawy?

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Jan 12, 2010 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I assume Frandsen. That assumption includes the assumption that he’s out of options, but I don’t know that’s true for sure.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Hinshaw will probably be dropped.

Randy Hahn: "I’ve been referred to as a playa…"

by 49er16 on Jan 12, 2010 5:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I kinda like Doug Davis for whatever reason. He might be the slowest pitcher in baseball.

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Jan 12, 2010 2:11 PM PST reply actions  

Isn’t he a bay area guy too?

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

doesn’t he get Giants out easily? That could be it.

by BigO on Jan 12, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions  

But if he played for the Giants he wouldn’t be able to face them during games.

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

that might not stop him from getting them out

A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.

by wjackalope on Jan 12, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

that got a hearty chuckle from me

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I think any pitcher who joins the Giants is going to see his ERA go up since he’ll no longer get to face the Giants.

"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.

by Goofus on Jan 12, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Alright Sabes..

your true identity has been revealed.

Matt Downs . The Kevin Frandsen of 2010 !

by nvsfg on Jan 12, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Ahh, yes – the immortal “Mark Portugal” argument.

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions  

This is funny to me because I don’t even know who that is.

LOLOLD.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 11:04 PM PST up reply actions  

LOLYOUNG

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 11:06 PM PST up reply actions  

NNNNNNOOOOOOO!!!!!

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 13, 2010 8:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Went to Northgate and then DVC and SF City College

by djp4cal on Jan 12, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Northgate?? hey, we played against them in football… but he also had cancer right?

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I got respect for him… well is Doug Davis actually a free agent?

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Then why not? go get him, if it wont cost much, but at this point, he’d be a great 5th starter

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 2:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I’d definitely be fine with the Giants getting Davis as well. If he struggles, then MadBum is waiting in Triple-A.

by djp4cal on Jan 12, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

See? that sounds perfect, at least have Bum play in Fresno for a few starts, but yea, ease him in

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly. There’s nothing wrong with him starting the year in the minors.

by djp4cal on Jan 12, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

And there are good reasons to do so, other than his stage of development (cough…service time…cough).

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions  

If he plays in the majors the whole year, he’ll be eligible for arbitration after the 2012 season. If they keep him in the minors until July or so, he won’t be eligible until the following year. If he’s as good as hoped, that could wind up making a $5M or so difference.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I own two Giants ties irl!

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Jan 12, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions  

lol

xanthan is “that guy” at the office.

by chilibean_3 on Jan 12, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

"that computer"

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

LET ME SHOW YOU MY TIES!

#1 FanShot Champion

by xanthan on Jan 12, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions  

OK

but I’m definitely not pulling them.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 3:31 PM PST up reply actions  

but maybe you could tie xanthan up with some of your ties, ty (webb)?

by aug_21_2003 on Jan 12, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

more caddyshack appears below

and IMO this site could use more. Nicely done.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

“We’ve got a pool…and a pond. Pond would be good for you.”

We just bought some property with a pond in Grass Valley and the wife and I are saying this w-a-y too much.

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Jan 12, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey! I’m in Grass Valley

by igotnothing on Jan 12, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Just bought on Side Bet. Let’s tip a few when we settle in.

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Jan 12, 2010 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Freeze, gopher!!!!!!!!!!!!

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

are they both bow models?

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Did you ever find that Giants Bow Tie yet?

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 12, 2010 8:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I might not be able to watch the games he pitches.

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jan 12, 2010 6:53 PM PST up reply actions  

OT: Haha, this is awesome, some guy on KNBR "GET RANDY JOHNSON!!!!! TO MAKE THE PITCHING STAFF BETTER!!!!!! HE CAN BE A PITCHING COACH!!! I DONT KNOW WHO THE PITCHING COACH IS BUT GET RANDY JOHNSON!!!!! OH AND GET GONZALEZ FROM SAN DIEGO!!!! I’M BOYCOTTING THE GIANTS UNTIL THEY PAY MONEY FOR GUYS!! WE NEED A GUY THAT CAN HIT THE BASEBALL!!

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 2:15 PM PST reply actions  

Sabean: Oh! That’s what I’m supposed to be trying to get.

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm stuck on the 5th SP

Should they just let Bumgarner start all season? Sign a semi-broken or quite old vet but will cost more money? Let Pucetas or Martinez battle for it?

Win the inning.

by Scooter Ellis on Jan 12, 2010 2:17 PM PST reply actions  

i say throw some money around and get someone, then ease in Bumgarner through the season… let him play in Fresno

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed.

It’s always best to ease in the bum

by Every6thDay on Jan 12, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Kind of a weird tattoo if you ask me

"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.

by Goofus on Jan 12, 2010 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

TWSS_troll

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Jan 12, 2010 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I think good hygiene dictates inserting in the Pucetas before the Bum

"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.

by Goofus on Jan 12, 2010 3:03 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

irl lol

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Correct.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I want to see how Bumgarner’s velocity looks in ST before I decide, but no matter what I wouldn’t have a problem with him starting in AAA.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Pucetas

Every reform movement has a lunatic fringe.

by Cannonballden on Jan 12, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I just am really weirded out by the notion of madbum starting at such a young age

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I think they should try for one of the semi-broken guys and if they strike out there go with Pucetas or Martinez (probably Martinez). I really hope Bumgarner spends at least most of the season in Fresno or Richmond.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions  

don't forget

Our rule V saviour: Steve Johnson!

by BigO on Jan 12, 2010 2:19 PM PST reply actions  

Suck it, cheap Florida owners!

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/01/12/marlins-to-increase-payroll-comply-with-revenue-sharing-agreeme/

Tuesday, the Marlins announced, via the aforementioned release, that they will now be increasing player payroll.

“In response to our concerns that revenue sharing proceeds have not been used as required, the Marlins have assured the Union and the Commissioner’s Office that they plan to use such proceeds to increase player payroll annually as they move toward the opening of their new ballpark,” MLBPA executive director Michael Weiner said. “Today’s agreement, which covers the period 2010 through 2012, calls for ongoing communication among the Marlins, the Commissioner’s Office and the Union as the Marlins proceed with that plan.”

Though the Marlins have agreed to keep communication lines open, they have not admitted to past wrongdoing in the matter.

I try not to break the rules, but merely to test their elasticity.

by esseffgeez on Jan 12, 2010 2:19 PM PST reply actions  

In order to manage the payroll increases however, they have stopped paying their phone bill, effectively closing the communication lines.

by Every6thDay on Jan 12, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Well done!

Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.

by Lyle on Jan 12, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

nice

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah. They will be unstoppable now. A shoe-in for the World Series.

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Jan 12, 2010 2:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ve been wondering about that phrase. Is it really shoe-in? I always thought it was shoo-in.

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

You are correct

Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.

by Lyle on Jan 12, 2010 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

it’s definitely cheus-in

"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane

by Useful_Idiot on Jan 12, 2010 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

cheaux-in.

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Jan 12, 2010 3:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Choo-in Figgins

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 3:07 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Each example above is pronounced “Shawn.”

I'm thinking but nothing's happening.

by JRPhillips on Jan 12, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

A race horse so fast that you can merely shoo it across the finish line rather than having to urge it on with stronger measures is a "shoo-in": an easy winner. It is particularly unfortunate when this expression is misspelled "shoe-in" because to "shoehorn" something in is to squeeze it in with great difficulty.

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Jan 12, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Paul Brians – Common Errors in English Usage.

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Jan 12, 2010 4:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Hardly every year.

They’ve won 90 games exactly twice – ’97 and ’03, resulting in world series victories both times.
/locks self in bathroom and weeps bitterly

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

but they’re not really “awful” either. They’re “pretty OK”

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Steve Kline says hello.

Matt Downs . The Kevin Frandsen of 2010 !

by nvsfg on Jan 12, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

We Want Uggla!

Randy Hahn: "I’ve been referred to as a playa…"

by 49er16 on Jan 12, 2010 5:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I should probably take off my Giants beer-goggles, but that offense kinda sorta looks ok.

by deuce deuce on Jan 12, 2010 2:29 PM PST reply actions  

Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Jan 12, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

If Posey and Molina are great and the 2008 versions of Huff and DeRosa show up, it could be

But realistically, I think it’s going to be another long year on the offense front.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions  

DAMMIT

If Posey and SANDOVAL are great.

Freudian slip, I guess. The front office, it has scarred me.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 2:43 PM PST up reply actions  

How could you make that mistake? Molina is always great. Doi.

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

the other catcher

you predicted. God damn you.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Jan 12, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Fangraphs does not like (posed in other thread as well)

Angry at being left out of Matt’s post on The Contest last week, Brian Sabean’s San Francisco Giants have agreed to a one-year contract worth three million dollars with Aubrey Huff. Much like the Scott Podsednik contract, it looks fine in a vacuum. Huff is projected for somewhere in the 0.5 to 1.0 WAR range, meaning that Huff’s market value is probably the 2-4 million dollar range. If Aubrey Huff were indeed taking the roster spot of a replacement level player, the deal would make sense…

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/aubrey-huff-and-subtraction-by-addition/

by DFAAurillia on Jan 12, 2010 2:37 PM PST reply actions  

It’s also a Fanshot

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Fanshots are beneath me

by DFAAurillia on Jan 12, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

That can’t be comfortable…

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 3:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Ouch! Pods comparison.

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions  

remember, we were the 26th best team (25th?) according to BTBS power ranking

if we outperform by a wide margin again this year, it’s time to acknowledge there are flaws in their formula. Not the least of which is the 50 runs differential given to AL teams.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Jan 12, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

let's say right field plus 5 bench players = 6

catcher
Uribe
Bowker (out of options)
Sheierholz
Velez backing up IF and OF
Ishi OR Torres OR Lewis
don’t need a backup 1B, you got Pablo/Uribe and deRosa and Bowker and even Nate S [note, that is first base, not third].

cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"

by foothillsfan on Jan 12, 2010 2:49 PM PST reply actions  

Agreed

I don’t see Travis, FLew, and Torres all being on the opening day roster. It will be interesting to see which one (or possibly two) actually break camp with the team.

Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo. Looking forward to adopting Justin Smoak.

by Lyle on Jan 12, 2010 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

i’m pretty sure ishi and torres make it, but really, i would rather have lewis than torres

by sfoakbay on Jan 12, 2010 4:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Sounds about right to me too.

I would think it would be hard to keep Rohlinger over one of: Bowker, Ishi, Torres or Lewis.

I’m guessing it will be Torres for the speed, D and Switchie bat.

by joethejet on Jan 12, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

John Bowker Still Has A Option Left

The pre arbitration Giants that are out of options are Lewis, Schierholtz, Torres, Velez, Ishikawa, Frandsen, and Whiteside.

John Bowker was first added to the 40 man roster for the 2008 season and thus 2008 and 2009 have used just 2 of his three options.

by giantsrainman on Jan 12, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions  

A Swirling, Sucking Eddy Of Despair.

That’s the three-hole, pretty much any way you slices it. And this is all with me pretending Renteria doesn’t exist.

The “Ease Him In” Lineup:

2B – Sanchez
SS – Uribe
LF – DeRosa
3B – Sandoval
1B – Huff
RF – Bowkholtz
CF – Rowand
C – Posey

The "Fuck It, We’re 11 Games Back " Lineup.

C – Posey
2B – Sanchez
LF – DeRosa
3B – Sandoval
1B – Huff
SS – Uribe
RF – Bowkholtz
CF – Rowand

The “If I Was Manager” Lineup

C – Posey
2B – Sanchez
SS – Uribe
3B – Sandoval
LF – DeRosa
1B – Huff
RF – Bowkholtz
CF – Rowand

The “What They’ll Probably Do” Lineup:

2B – Sanchez
SS – Renteria
3B – Sandoval
LF – DeRosa
1B – Huff
RF – Bowkholtz
CF – Rowand
C – Posey

Brief moments of false hope in an ever-blackening universe.

I left my swagger in my other pants.

by HughG16 on Jan 12, 2010 2:52 PM PST reply actions  

Sandoval's gonna be 4th though

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry.

..all that swirling and sucking got to me. On the bright side, I just saw LeBron James walking down Maiden Lane. I wonder if he can hit a curveball?

I left my swagger in my other pants.

by HughG16 on Jan 12, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Crap, all I saw was Grag Papa walking out of the CSNBA building on 3rd St this morning.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you’re going to see

Rowand/Nate
Sanchez
Panda
Huff
Derosa
Rowand/Nate
Posey
Renteria

by joethejet on Jan 12, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Rowand/Nate are a lovely couple.

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

More Like Rowand/Torres Agianst RHP/LHP At Leadoff

With Schierholtz/Rowand Against RHP/LHP at 6th in the order. Thus a Schierholtz/Torres platoon in RF.

by giantsrainman on Jan 12, 2010 6:59 PM PST up reply actions  

but if the Giants find an extra $5M in the pocket of a coat they haven’t worn in a while

Like that coat you only wear to the playoffs.

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Jan 12, 2010 2:53 PM PST reply actions  

OH SNAP

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Jan 12, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Dear Pika...

read on, my friend. This was what the Warriors were when a fan could have some self-respect:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/01/11/SPC61BGBF5.DTL

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 2:58 PM PST reply actions  

lolink fail

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

i know, the link tool doesn’t work so that’s what happened with paste

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

i'll try it again here...

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions  

see, nothing even appears

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

test

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

again, nothing.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

pasting the code...

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

you need to highlight a word, then press the link button

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Jan 12, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions  

what do you mean by highlight a word? a word in the linked text?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Highlight a word in your post. Then click the link widget.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

this word then becomes the link that people will click on like this:

Link

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

but the post is the url that I’m link in with the widget

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

i see, it’s something to do with alternate text

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

what if you want the url revealed in the post? just paste it separately?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

if people put their cursor over your link then the URL shows up at the bottom of the screen

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

How does this work in Mac browsers—I havent figured it out in Safari?

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Jan 12, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

are you asking the same thing that we just resolved?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he’s asking about revealing the URL by scrolling over the link. I didn’t realize it was different for macs.

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

no, it’s the same, but you have to turn on that feature in Safari View/Show Status Bar

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes. When I mouse over a link using Safari I dont get a preview—is it a “toolbar” option?

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Jan 12, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Cool. Thanks.

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Jan 12, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

no prob—this is our spring training

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions  

STAT PADDING

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

If you just paste a url into your post the SBN gnomes automatically turn it into a link. But sometimes screw it up.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions  

god damn gnomes

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Try a different browser…

I'm thinking but nothing's happening.

by JRPhillips on Jan 12, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

next time. this is safari on a mac.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

You can't do it in the subject line

and you have to select text before you click the button

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ve done it that way, so it must be something else.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Link Fail

Randy Hahn: "I’ve been referred to as a playa…"

by 49er16 on Jan 12, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions  

can’t believe anyone is still talking about Bowker.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:00 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah, just because he was one of the best hitters in the entire minor leagues last year!!!!

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

WHAT A FUCKING STIFF

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

since when does a good minor league career translate into a good major league career?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Don’t start with any of that “representative sample size” bullshit.

He had 3 at-bats in October and didn’t hit 4 home runs. He’s lucky to even still be in the organization.

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

it doesn't, necessarily

There’s still a good chance he’s a AAAA hitter. But he completely transformed himself in the PCL last year, and we haven’t seen nearly enough of him in the majors since that transformation to know if it’s for real.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I keep hoping for good things from Bowker, with visions of him starting for a good portion of the year in my head. Then I remember Sabean’s comment about not being able to trust minor league numbers from Fresno and I’m like…crap. He thinks Bowker is Todd Linden.

I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?

by Ott on Jan 12, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I dunno, but everytime I’ve seen him hit, I think “major league pinch hitter at best.” I don’t have anything against him, just don’t see it happening.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice evaluation. You must be on the Giants’ payroll.

THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jan 12, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions  

if I was, then the Giants would be perennial division champs and occasional world series participants :)

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:36 PM PST up reply actions  

This is the worst player evaluation technique I've ever seen

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

certainly a small sample, but I trust my own eyes

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I repeat my above statement

this is a stupid way to evaluate talent.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I still can’t believe that people like this exist.

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

and absolutely refuse to listen to reason

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

personal attacks and reason don’t seem to be compatible

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Its not a personal attack

I didn’t call you stupid. I said what you’re doing is stupid. And it is, it’s not reasonable to assume that you can just “look” at a guy and know he’s not good enough to play in the majors. That is stupid.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions  

it had to do with how he swung the bat, not how he looked

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

short punchy stroke, kinda defensive.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:01 PM PST up reply actions  

So then why would you want him as a pinch hitter?

by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 12, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

he’s got a reputation for contact

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I see

He would be your late inning GIDP guy off the bench.

by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 12, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

A.J. Pinchhitterzinski

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions  

/facepalm

if he has a “reputation for contact” why the hell should he be starting?

by sfoakbay on Jan 12, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions  

don't bother

it’s a fruitless endeavor.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions  

i know

just needed to get a comment in

by sfoakbay on Jan 12, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions  

PADDIN TEH STATZ

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

susceptible to the fastball, which is usually a bad sign, like Niekro was

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Do us all a favor—-go out to spring training and watch every single one of the Giants. That way we’ll know exactly how the team will do before the season, and it’ll save us a lot of heartache.

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

hell, I’d still get shot down!

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Not if you ended up being right. We need your gift! Please share with us!

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

looks like my mcc future is resting on Bowker.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions  

What is Bowker going to do this year?

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions  

that’s a tough one, because the Giants outfield could crumble like a stale hostess cupcake, which would give him a big opportunity.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

What does looking at him tell you?

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

ok, assuming that the outfield holds up, and he gets mixed majors/minors action, I see 45 games, 100 AB’s, 2 hr, 17 rbi, .245 and the rest really doesn’t matter at that point.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions  

HA! Here is where your logic falls apart. Hostess cupcakes have a shelf life of like 80 years and therefore never get stale.

I accept your surrender.

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

well done

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Well that would be like concluding that a poster is a complete and total idiot based upon 1 player evaluation post.

Hmmm, actually I guess it could be done.

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I should add—I AM NEVAR WRONG

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Except about that whole Baron thing….

by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 12, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow

Wow

Must have been quite a conversation

The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."

by ResDog on Jan 12, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah

I missed that bit

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 6:31 PM PST up reply actions  

dude, yer like my mom, carry a grudge FOREVAR

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

If you would have apologized, this would have been long forgotten.

Instead, you decided to be a misogynistic douche. I am glad that others are catching on.

by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 12, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

And if I were really like your mom

I would be fucking for money while holding a grudge.

by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 12, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey, let’s tone it down a bit.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Or a lot?

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Jan 12, 2010 4:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, that.

The personal attacks are more than a bit much here. I thought his behavior in the Baron thread was distasteful, but let’s move on, okay? I don’t think someone saying he doesn’t believe in John Bowker deserves to be dumped on like this.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

…but if it was Fred Lewis, on the other hand…

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

He would be banned already, of course.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 4:17 PM PST up reply actions  

/rec’d

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:19 PM PST up reply actions  

i guess I'm glad I missed that one

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

srsly

but now i’m curious.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I questioned her credentials, saying something to the effect that “a college kid in a marching band” blah-blah-blah, and somehow that made me into a misogynistic douche.

Apparently, she covers minor league baseball, but I still haven’t found anything. I’m pretty sure I made amends with the Baroness, however.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I've read her articles

they’re not written by “baron von current events”.

I’d trust her opinion/writing a helluva lot more than yours.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

that’s fine. I really would like to see what she writes, though, but not to defend myself or launch any personal attacks.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I just linked you below

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Wait—are you saying she’s not a real Baron?

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Jan 12, 2010 5:05 PM PST up reply actions  

She wrote pretty much every Cal League notebook for MiLB.com last season and helped out on others as well.

Example

She’s also written for SFDugout.com, which is the site that BruteSentiment (Kevin) runs.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 4:31 PM PST up reply actions  

thank you. I was being told that her name was Baron Wayne or Baron Clark!

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it's funny

that somebody who believes in eyes-over-stats player evaluation questions the credibility of others with no hint of irony.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

And I'm not attacking you

just saying.

I AM NOT SAYING

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions  

STOP SAYING ON ME!

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

but it was really a third-person referral, not in response to something that the Baroness said. It was like, so-and-so is good, the Baroness said so, and all I knew about her at the time was that she was a college kid in a marching band.

It was irreverent, yes, but not nearly as bad as it’s been made out to be.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Ok

well you’re telling us that Bowker ISNT good, so why should we listen to you? That’s all I’m saying. I don’t even know that you’re in a marching band or whatever.

We’re all giving our opinions, and I don’t see how your ability to judge a player by how they “look” is any better than anyone else’s evaluation, especially someone with either first-hand knowledge of a player, or someone who’s actually, you know, using facts as a basis for their argument.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions  

my way is to use eyes and stats as a complement to each other

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions  

If your favorite stats are rbi’s, then it’s not really a great balance.

Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Jan 12, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions  

it’s true, I am a big fan of the RBI, but I’m not that unbalanced of an individual to rely solely on a single statistic.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I just want to ask

as a person who actually think RsBI are relevant, do you really not understand that in order to get an RBI, there has to be somebody on base in front of you? That if you play on a team with a low OBP that you will get fewer RsBI? I know this has been rehashed and rehashed, but I can’t understand how, knowing that fact, somebody could take RsBI seriously.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

well, I don’t see why a player’s record of executing should be discounted, either…hash or no hash.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

RBIs aren’t a good record of executing though. A guy could have 4 hits in 4 at bats and get 0 rbis and another guy could ground out to the pitcher 4 times and get 4 rbis. It depends on the situation.

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

that's exactly the point

there are plenty of other “records of executing” that are 100x better and more indicative of performance than RsBI

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 6:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Like raisingcain said

the stats you use are not effective for evaluating players accurately. This has been proven over and over again.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions  

yup

the key is to balance what you see and stats, because using just one will be utterly useless and misleading

by sfoakbay on Jan 12, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions  

statistics said that it would be raining all day today, and a lot, but I can see with my own eyes that that isn’t the case….so I’m gonna go walk my dog!

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I know you're trying to joke

but that is a stupid thing to say. And I’m hoping you can see the difference.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I remain open to enlightenment

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Ok

weather is unpredictable. Stats are a record of something that has happened. You don’t see the difference? For forecasting the FUTURE, I agree, stats can be a little tricky, but they’re a hell of a lot more valuable than “I looked at him and don’t think he’s that good”.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions  

ugh. weather prediction is based on events that have happened, as well.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

But it’s just that: a prediction. It is not a recording of what factually happened.

by speckops on Jan 12, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Apparently, she covers minor league baseball, but I still haven’t found anything.

This is the just type of comment that could be construed as condescending and/or misogynistic – i.e. douchey… especially by people that like and respect BVC.
This would have been the perfect place to write something like “She covers minor league baseball, but I wasn’t aware of her work”, but instead you had to say “apparently” and “but I still haven’t found anything”, implying her work is insignificant and furthering your douche credentials.
Just trying to help.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

where is this thread?

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Official McPokeMaster

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I would really like to see this thread

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 6:40 PM PST up reply actions  

how do you find something like that on this site?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 7:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Since it’s your comment, click on your own username. In search, type something like “marching band.” Click the comments tab.

http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2010/1/5/1235429/my-mock-hall-of-fame-ballot#28323090

Now everyone can relive that joyful day.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 7:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jan 12, 2010 7:32 PM PST up reply actions  

ok, ggf

you seriously have a problem admitting you’re wrong. About anything. Good luck with that in life.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:09 PM PST up reply actions  

good point, except for the misogynistic part

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 6:31 PM PST up reply actions  

psst… being condescending to a woman can be interpreted as misogynistic behavior….

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 6:48 PM PST up reply actions  

women... pfffft...

There ain’t no grrrrls on the internets!!!

by Merope on Jan 12, 2010 7:05 PM PST up reply actions  

there, there little lady

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 7:12 PM PST up reply actions  

sounds like someone who is interpreting something as they wish to

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 7:13 PM PST up reply actions  

nah, man. It came off that way to just about everybody.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Jan 12, 2010 7:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Girls… what do they know about anything

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 7:16 PM PST up reply actions  

everybody—STATZ PLZ

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 7:16 PM PST up reply actions  

this would be a great time to actually listen to someone

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Jan 12, 2010 7:18 PM PST up reply actions  

You can listen to me… STOP TALKING

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 7:19 PM PST up reply actions  

ok, taliesin found it, a few posts above

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

first, the “psst,” is condescending, which undermines the credibility of your comment.

second, stating that “being condescending to a woman can be interpreted as misogynistic” sets up the question of whether being condescending to a man would be considered misandristic. If your answer is no, then you’ve just made sexist statement; if your answer is yes, then the issue is the condescension, as being condescending may be arrogant, but is not in itself hateful.

The reason that I’ve taken the time with this is that misogynism is hateful, and that is no part of my game, whatsoever, and I really find it distasteful to use that connotation [hate] in an open forum like this.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 7:53 PM PST up reply actions  

There isn't hundreds of years of opression against men to look back on

same reason a white person being called “cracker” isn’t as offensive as a black person being called you know what. Context is everything, something you apparently don’t understand in just about any facet of conversation.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m not seeing this in the same context as you, for sure, but I’m not going to call out your character over this.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 10:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not calling out anyone's character

you seem like an OK dude (from what I can ascertain from very limited exposure on an internerd forum), but you were wrong in this instance and you never so much as even hinted at apologizing.

I’m not so much worried about the putting women down thing, because from my reading of it I didn’t get that impression, but I was just making the point that the genders are looked at differently.

Women were oppressed by men for 100s of years, so it’s going to be different when a man talks down to a woman than when a woman talks down to a man. It just is, at least in my worldview. I think it’s a lot more offensive for a guy to talk that way, but maybe that’s just me IDK.

The reason the thing ruffled my feathers is because it was obvious you were wrong to question her credibility, and instead of just saying “whoops, sorry guys”, you just kept deflecting and demanding proof. Now that proof has been provided, you’re still not just saying you’re sorry.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I apologize to internerds everywhere, and to college students, and marching band members, and referring to women as she, and for questioning the credentials of anonymous blog posters.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 11:04 PM PST up reply actions  

See, again

that was douchey. You just don’t seem to get it, which is fine. I hope you’re not like that in real life is all I have to say on the matter.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:10 PM PST up reply actions  

this is what I said

“sorry, Ms VCE, I’m not trying to pick on you :)”

so, right from the start I was trying not to make the discussion about her, but all the posters were making it out like it was a personal attack, and then I’m trying to figure out why she was being so vigorously defended, but the references weren’t panning out—her sig’s don’t point to her byline, unless you know her real name, which is not revealed by this site, and wasn’t revealed to me until today by jprony.

I’m feeling falsely accused, which is an untenable position from which to genuinely apologize.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 11:41 PM PST up reply actions  

You could have said this like 4 hours ago, that would have probably cleared a few things up.

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 13, 2010 12:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

just say that, and don’t be a douche about it.

Even if you’re not necessarily “wrong”, sometimes the best course of action is to apologize that somebody was offended by what you said and try to clear it up, rather than to just keep deflecting and giving jerky responses.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 13, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

by just apologizing

you prevent it from getting worse, and we wouldn’t me having this conversation

by sfoakbay on Jan 13, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Normally I’d be against this kind of talk.

But Greatgiantfan is too big a man to hold a grudge on something like that.

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

ANGRY LARS IS ANGRY

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

EET SUM PIE

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

and they stole his real girl.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 10:00 PM PST up reply actions  

FTR

I couldn’t agree with you more lars. After reading it, that was fucking weaksauce on his part.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t trust your eyes.

by AndOnTheDrums... on Jan 12, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Pretty much every good major leaguer had a good minor league career. Except cornerstone of the offense Eugenio Velez.

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 3:25 PM PST up reply actions  

most of the time, adjusting for age and level

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Jan 12, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions  

There's a much higher correlation...

…between “good minor league career” and “good major league career” than there is between “bad minor league career” and “good major league career”.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Jan 12, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Really? Why? What’s the reason for not talking about Bowker?

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jan 12, 2010 7:01 PM PST up reply actions  

2 Points

A) John Bowker is far more likely to be a starter on this team than Fred Lewis is to get a spot on the 25-man roster. That makes it worth talking about him.
B) This whole mega-tangent that includes discussions of misogyny and judicial review started with a simple comment about John Bowker?

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 8:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Can’t argue with you there.

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jan 12, 2010 8:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Bowker voted for the suffraging of women.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 10:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I just don’t see him being in the mix as the future of the organization, that’s all.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 10:49 PM PST up reply actions  

If I was Manager:

Against Righties:
RF – Lewis
CF – Rowand
3B – Sandoval
1B – Huff
LF – Bowker
C – Posey
2B – Sanchez
SS – Uribe/Rent

Against Lefties:
C – Posey
CF – Rowand
LF – DeRosa
1B – Sandoval
3B – Uribe
RF – Torres
2B – Sanchez
SS – Rent

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 3:03 PM PST reply actions  

Hitting Sanchez 7 is where it’s at.

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 3:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I gave much more thought to what players and where they would play than the actual order. And by much more though I mean all of a few minutes.

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions  

More than Bochy on any given day…

by younghutch on Jan 12, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions  

You ended up doing very well.

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions  

SF Pete for manager!

I’d switch Huff and Bowker against righties, but otherwise this seems pretty good to me. Back in reality, I don’t believe for a second they’re going to platoon either of Derosa and Huff, much less both of them.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL GIANTS!!

It would be a huge mistake to start the season with Bumgarner in the rotation.

I can’t even look at the lineup as constructed without throwing things so the rotation is the only thing I can address right now.

by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 12, 2010 3:10 PM PST reply actions  

As much as I agree that Bumgardner should start in AAA to work on his secondary pitches, to me the bigger deal is how/if he can finish a season AAA or MLB. He has never thrown more than 141 innings, so even if he starts with the Giants, him finishing the season, even with skipped starts, will be taxing for him and might hinder his development.

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 12, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I DVR'd the no hitter when it was on MLBN

I am watching it now. The Madres were hilarious in the 2nd inning.

by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 12, 2010 3:10 PM PST reply actions  

it’s so fun.

My wife and I watched it on Sunday, and both got caught up in it again. My wife hates Juan Uribe like he committed the error yesterday.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Jan 12, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m saving it forever!!! (or at least until I get a new dvr)

by m34josh on Jan 12, 2010 4:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Just burn it off to dvd…
Mr Merope did that with ours… it involves a bunch of cables, a laptop and a lot of swearing.

by Merope on Jan 12, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I got two of those three, probably not the necessary ones though.

The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."

by ResDog on Jan 12, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Wang

want some … for 5th starter.

by Fresburg on Jan 12, 2010 3:16 PM PST reply actions  

ANY WAY YOU WANT IT

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

ANY WAY YOU WANT IT

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Judge Smales

my hero. Now I have to watch this tonight!

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m watching “The Natural” tonight. Somehow I’ve never seen it…I’ve been reading pretty mixed reviews.

by Into the Void on Jan 12, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s a solid flick. A little hokey, but it’s a baseball movie, so the bar is lower.

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 5:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Noting, first off, that I liked it, but… a little hokey?

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 5:16 PM PST up reply actions  

DON’T YOU PEOPLE HAVE JOBS?!?!?!

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jan 12, 2010 6:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ve sentenced boys your age to the gas chamber. Didn’t want to do it, I felt like I owed it to them.

The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."

by ResDog on Jan 12, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

How about a Fresca?

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 6:48 PM PST up reply actions  

you know who held up well?

at least through the Caddyshack extras, where they talked to the cast after about 20 years?

Lacey Overall.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Best part of that scene where the club goes through the umbrella and clocks the woman:

Patron: Well, how the hell did it get here?
Smails: It slipped!!
Danny: I’ll put some stickum on that, sir. It’s my fault.

It was a PUTTER!!

by younghutch on Jan 13, 2010 5:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Danny Noonan

future Giants AGM?

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 13, 2010 7:08 AM PST up reply actions  

It

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions  

It's a restricted club

So don’t tell em you’re Jewish

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 6:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Proposition

In the 2010 season, overall, Joe Martinez would probably be a better 5th starter than Madison Bumgarner.

In subsequent seasons, this will change. Agree or disagree?

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 3:18 PM PST reply actions  

Disagree. Bumgarner will be better this year. However, there are service time issues, and he would probably be a lot better next year and the years after that if he got at least half a year to work on his off-speed stuff in Fresno this year.

So I’d go with Joe Martinez if put to the question.

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

That’s tough. It’s really hard to say without knowing if Bumgarner’s velocity is going to come back. Based on how Bumgarner threw in San Francisco, I have little doubt that Martinez would be better. But if Bumgarner gets back into the mid 90s, that’s a whole different story.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I was pretty impressed by Martinez, until he got his head blown up

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

And then after that he had trouble getting out of the 5th inning. I know that that’s not terrible for a 5th starter, but this team needs more than average production from it’s 5th starter. I’d be fine with Joe getting a look, but I seriously doubt that he would outperform Madison if they were given the same chance. And I know that I don’t have a rational argument for that, but both are dealing with sample size issues due to injury or loss of velocity.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Didn’t he take it off the dome in like his 3rd inning? I was rooting like hell for the kid last year, but I honestly didn’t see all that much talent in those first two innings, or all the starts after the liner

by m34josh on Jan 12, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree. Time clock and devlopement of other pitches aside the guy has not thrown more 150 innings in a season. The farm is great place for him to learn about that.

/ Chants, " Olivio, Jacobs, Podsednik" Then smacks head with a 1 X 6. This will continue tell the pain decreases and moral improves.

by daveinexile on Jan 12, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions  

This

I still have high hopes for MadBum, but he looked liked he needed some rest.

Ideally, he’d get a whole year at AAA and a Sept call up, unless he was blowing people away.

I think he could provide 5th starter performance this year, but I’m not at all sure that that is the best thing for him for 2011 and beyond.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 10:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Meh

I’m looking forward to seeing Buster and Pablo hit

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 3:54 PM PST reply actions  

And hopefully the One Who Is Real by August or something

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Eugenio Velez?

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

and that Who is?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Thomas Neal is not white! Hell, he ain’t even old timey!

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

The color guard is colored!

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t see color. People tell me I’m white and I believe them, because police officers call me “sir”.
/Colbert

The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."

by ResDog on Jan 12, 2010 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

holy shit

not to be racist or something, but I totally thought he was white from his name. Gotta be a reggie cleveland all-star candidate

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 6:56 PM PST up reply actions  

This is a discussion that has come up here before.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jan 12, 2010 6:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Along with, I believe, Brandon Crawford.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Jan 12, 2010 6:57 PM PST up reply actions  

(who IS white)

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 6:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Howie Kendrick.
Reggie Willits

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 6:59 PM PST up reply actions  

jevan snead

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 7:00 PM PST up reply actions  

lol wow

I thought he was black. OK, i need to do some more research on our prospects, apparently.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 6:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I suppose you could start with this thread.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 7:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for that

makes me a little less on-edge. I was worried I might offend someone. LOL me

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Unfortunately, you can pretty much assume that a player with a non-Spanish (is that the correct adjective?) name is white. Thomas Neal happens to be African American and has a European, non-Spanish name. African American participation in baseball has dramatically decreased since the 70’s. Also, I don’t think you can really tell whom is African American by their names unless they have been altered from the norm like Chone. For example, Ryan Howard, Eric Davis. Now if the guy has an Eastern-European name, he is likely a cracker and should be referred to as such.

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 13, 2010 12:25 AM PST up reply actions  

IAWTC

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 13, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

It’s “who”, actually.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jan 14, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Join me as a member of PAGOM

People Against the Grammatical Objectification of Minorities.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 14, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Wait, what?

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jan 14, 2010 11:16 AM PST up reply actions  

You use who for the subject of the verb and whom for the object of the verb. Using whom for the subject of a verb is therefore objectifying the subject.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 14, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I think grammar humor might be more nerdy than jokes about Bothans.

by taliesin on Jan 14, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh. hehe. I thought maybe you meant that he used “that” instead of “who”, which would also result in the grammatically objectification of minorities, in a different way.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jan 15, 2010 2:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Kevin Pucetas is not hispanic.

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Everyone thought he was black. My theory was that “athletic but raw” translated in our minds to black. Or maybe he just reminded us of Carl Crawford. Occam would probably go with the latter option.

I was promised lasagna.

by Cookyman on Jan 14, 2010 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

August of this year?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

It could happen.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

The guy is pretty real

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

I take pictures

by SoFa King Mike on Jan 12, 2010 4:17 PM PST up reply actions  

5th starter

Get it done Sabes

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Jan 12, 2010 4:12 PM PST reply actions  

I think he's married with a child

But he could be Tigerin’ some groupies for all I know…

Win the inning.

by Scooter Ellis on Jan 12, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Wang is married to Chia-Ling Wu. The couple have one son, born on June 16, 2009, named Justin Jesse “J.J.” Wang.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Jan 12, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

tnwss

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I would be okay with that.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Jan 12, 2010 4:19 PM PST up reply actions  

He is the perfect 5th starter for the Giants

1. High risk, high reward.
2. We can plenty of people we can run out there for a month to make 3-4 starts to open the season. Joe Martinez, for one.
3. If he falters, Madison Bumgarner can step in July, effectively delaying his clock. The Giants are one of the only teams with the pitching depth to slot him in 5th starter slot and can afford to sign him to a major league contract with internal options to fill in if he falters.
4. Strong Asian community
5. I would really fucking HATE to cheer against him every 5th day when if he is playing on the Dodgers.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Jan 12, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Wang combined with Geno Espinelli means we’d have the asian market cornered. Suck it A’s.

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m fine with it as long as, you know, he’s still any good.

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions  

He’s such a weird pitcher that it’s gonna be hard to tell until he starts facing hitters again. I mean obviously if his velocity is way down, that’s a red flag, but how easy is it to tell if the freakish groundball voodoo is still in effect?

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions  

that's basically the point

nobody knows, but the Giants can afford to sign him to a major league deal at, say, 1M with incentives because if it doesn’t work out, they can run Bumgarner out there in June / July.

Other team with rotation needs cannot quite take that chance, they’d have to wait until he is recovered and throwing again in spring training because making a contract offer.

This gives the Giants significant advantage in signing Wang if they feel like gambling with 1M. Teams like the Mets or the Brewers may not be able to do that because if he doesn’t work out, they are out of options. They need to see him throw first.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Jan 12, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

xiao wang, jia you

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Jan 12, 2010 6:40 PM PST up reply actions  

LOLINA

<blockquoteBengie Molina Willing To Sign Two-Year Contract
By Mark Polishuk [January 12 at 5:11pm CST]

Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports is reporting that free agent catcher Bengie Molina is backing away from his desired three-year contract and is now willing to sign a deal for only the next two seasons. We learned two weeks ago from ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick that Molina was considering lowering his demands, perhaps to reach a compromise with the Mets’ offer of a one-year contract with an option (though Matthew Cerrone of MetsBlog.com thought the Mets would be willing to offer Molina the full two years.)

A source told ESPN The Magazine’s Tim Kurkjian (as reported on ESPN’s Insider Rumors page) that a deal could be finalized between the team and the veteran catcher within “the next 48 to 72 hours,” which makes sense if Molina and the Mets have met each other halfway on the contract’s length.>

by DFAAurillia on Jan 12, 2010 4:46 PM PST reply actions  

I won’t feel safe until the deal is done. I could still see Sabes swooping in at the last minute.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions  

NIGHTMARE FUEL

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions  

SWOOPToFatterSeats

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

lol

The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."

by ResDog on Jan 12, 2010 6:29 PM PST up reply actions  

LOLMETS

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions  

danger danger

flab flailing wildly.

LET’S GO METS!

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

C'mon Mets

Remember that one time Bengie hit two home runs in an inning against you guys?

Yeah, he could totally do that again!

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

I take pictures

by SoFa King Mike on Jan 12, 2010 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

It would really suck for them if they signed him and he still hit two home runs in an inning against them.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

haha just wait till the mets see him run the bases !

by BillyMaysHere on Jan 12, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Imagine Jason Bay hitting behind Bengie

He’d probably think, “Fuck my life”

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

I take pictures

by SoFa King Mike on Jan 12, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Probably not an issue

I think the Mets won’t be writing him in at cleanup EVERY DAY WITHOUT FAIL.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 9:44 PM PST up reply actions  

HAHAH JOKES ON THEM

DUDE HITS RIBBIES!!!!! FUCKING IDIOTS

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions  

you could say that again

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Jan 12, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions  

shit

I thought they’d signed him already!! AHHH

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 4:53 PM PST up reply actions  

If this happens....

drinks are on Grant!!!!

"meh"

by SFGuy on Jan 12, 2010 7:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports is reporting that free agent catcher Bengie Molina is backing away from his desired three-year contract and is now willing to sign a deal for only the next two seasons. We learned two weeks ago from ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick that Molina was considering lowering his demands, perhaps to reach a compromise with the Mets’ offer of a one-year contract with an option (though Matthew Cerrone of MetsBlog.com thought the Mets would be willing to offer Molina the full two years.)

A source told ESPN The Magazine’s Tim Kurkjian (as reported on ESPN’s Insider Rumors page) that a deal could be finalized between the team and the veteran catcher within “the next 48 to 72 hours,” which makes sense if Molina and the Mets have met each other halfway on the contract’s length.

by DFAAurillia on Jan 12, 2010 4:47 PM PST reply actions  

I think we’re quite safe from Molina. I remember him being unhappy with the FO bumping up Posey.

Hey Fred Lewis, remember Mother's Day?

by anotherbadexcuseguitar on Jan 12, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

DON'T JINX IT!!

Sabes might be listening

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

I take pictures

by SoFa King Mike on Jan 12, 2010 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Knowing Molina

He likely swings his pen too hard on the very first attempt while signing the contract and proceed to do it 2 more times when the ink began leaking out. His agent advises him to take a walk first until they can get a new pen but he refuses, so he kept trying to sign his name with no ink.

Sandoval then came through with a new pen and signed his name for him so they could all celebrate and have dinner, but Pablo became irritated upon waiting behind Molina at the buffet line.

Win the inning.

by Scooter Ellis on Jan 12, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

at least the giants have 20 different forms of renteria insurance when he proves he’s still garbage.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jan 12, 2010 5:01 PM PST reply actions  

Exactly! Renteria will suck if he is healthy, but if he is too injured to suck, we have other guys who can suck for him.

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Jan 12, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

FLEXIMIBILITIY!

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions  

but no more Bocock :(

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/aubrey-huff-and-subtraction-by-addition/

Uribe’s bat is weak? start fred lewis in left field? Smoking crack is bad, mmmkay.

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jan 12, 2010 5:07 PM PST reply actions  

Uribe first came into the majors in 2001. In 9 seasons he has 2 that were above average offensively. The rest were not good. So in 2004 and 2009 Uribe was good but in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008 he was bad.

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 5:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I see you’re new here.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 5:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he was kidding

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Official McPokeMaster

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t. That’s eerily reminiscent of some of Baggs’ commenters.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 5:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Ya but no one who has hung around here for more than 3 days would think that.

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Official McPokeMaster

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions  

You can read the site without accepting the groupthink… you just have to accept that people will harshly criticize your analysis.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 6:41 PM PST up reply actions  

When people are providing stats to prove you wrong, its pretty hard to keep thinking you are right, though. That takes some real grit and versatility.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 6:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Simple – convince yourself that stats are less important than observation and experience.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions  

The Bochy school of thought.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:09 PM PST up reply actions  

greatgiantfan sez hai

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 6:57 PM PST up reply actions  

If you can back it up, I don’t think anyone would criticize your analysis.

by speckops on Jan 12, 2010 6:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh

you’re serious.

Wait, are you?

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 5:21 PM PST up reply actions  

If it’s parody, it’s exceedingly well executed.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Does anyone know if Fangraphs has any articles relating to Huff?

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Jan 12, 2010 5:15 PM PST reply actions  

Since when did Fred Lewis become a good defender?

by Lincecum's_Dime_Bag on Jan 12, 2010 5:38 PM PST reply actions  

Which one of you jokers is this?

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 12, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the thread slows down and everybody whips out his/her fake account to try to start some trouble.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Mychael Urban

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Jan 12, 2010 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

This poster is off to a good start to his McCareer.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Jan 12, 2010 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Range is really important for outfielders. Fred has good range. It’s true that he dropped a few balls last year but he gets to a lot of balls that other leftfielders wouldn’t. If Fred had good instincts and didn’t drop as many balls in the outfield he would be an exceptional defensive player. As it stands he’s only above average in LF.

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 12, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry I was referring to this statement: “Lewis projects similarly – again, a weak bat for the position but solid defense.”

by Lincecum's_Dime_Bag on Jan 12, 2010 5:40 PM PST reply actions  

He is an average to above average defensive LF, yes.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions  

We know. You’re wrong.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

LOL USC

Lane Kiffin to be named head coach, sources say.

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jan 12, 2010 5:41 PM PST reply actions  

WHAT? i don’t believe your sources

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s on the main page at ESPN.

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Giant ESPN.com headline not a good source?

by DFAAurillia on Jan 12, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

ESPN blows, their sources suck

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

:(

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jan 12, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

This means nothing to me.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Jan 12, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions  

If it was giants related would it mean something?

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

LANE KIFFIN NEW GIANTS MANAGER ESPN SAYS!

In the end, America will be remembered for three things: the Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Jan 12, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 5:51 PM PST up reply actions  

USC + Lane Kiffin = 0 interest

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 6:43 PM PST up reply actions  

USC-Pete Carroll=

yay!

Was he just leaving town before the long arm of the NCAA grabbed him?

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 12, 2010 9:46 PM PST up reply actions  

yes

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

For every other team in the Pac 10s sake, thank God

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

For every other team in the NFC West, too

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

If warner retires after this year, the Niners will win that division with 7 wins.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Wasn’t it already announced he would be retiring after the playoffs this year?

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 13, 2010 9:18 AM PST up reply actions  

There was speculation, which he quickly denied. Most people seem to think he’ll play out his contract (through next season) unless they win the Super Bowl this year.

by taliesin on Jan 13, 2010 9:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Ah. Thanks.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 13, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

but his contract was something like 2/22, and he got 18m of that this year. so….

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 13, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah its no coincidence that the NCAA finished their probe and will be announcing their findings in 3 weeks.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

You gotta be Kiffin me!

He totally mess Tennessee up along with the players he recruited, great coach indeed!

Win the inning.

by Scooter Ellis on Jan 12, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions  

they sucked anyway… USC is more important than Tennessee

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions  

and now he’s going to suck there! It’s like Christmas all over again! (because fuck USC, that’s why)

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Jan 12, 2010 6:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Should be fun

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 12, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Fire up the circus music!

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jan 12, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Sanctions Master

Wonder which school will end up with more?

by m34josh on Jan 12, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

They figured if they’re already gonna be on probation, what harm could Kiffin do?

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Holy shit

holy shit.

holy shit.

Seriously?

Holy shit

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 6:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes!

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Jan 12, 2010 6:15 PM PST up reply actions  

AL DAVIS WAZ RITE

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Jan 12, 2010 6:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Wait, did anyone doubt Al Davis?

The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."

by ResDog on Jan 12, 2010 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Pedro Feliz raises his hand

by sfoakbay on Jan 13, 2010 8:49 PM PST up reply actions  

OT

Santa Clarans for Economic Progress, a group of civic and community leaders backed by the 49ers, plans to submit 7,000 signatures to the Santa Clara City Clerk today “in their effort to get an initiative on the June ballot to build the team a new stadium”

by DFAAurillia on Jan 12, 2010 6:02 PM PST reply actions  

the raiders will not win

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jan 12, 2010 6:47 PM PST reply actions  

You’re high

The Giants Way™"If anybody deserves credit for this year’s turnaround it’s these two people, Brian and Bruce," Neukom said. "The encouraging thing is we think we’re back to playing baseball the way it ought to be played."

by ResDog on Jan 12, 2010 6:53 PM PST up reply actions  

You’re drunk!

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 7:08 PM PST up reply actions  

They win every once in a while.

P.S. Use the +reply button to reply to other posters.

by chilibean_3 on Jan 12, 2010 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

the greatness of bruce gradkowski

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jan 12, 2010 7:28 PM PST up reply actions  

So

Pablo: 3-spot or cleanup? I’m inclined to say 3, but management seems intent on him hitting cleanup.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 7:12 PM PST reply actions  

He should bat second, but cleanup would be better than third, I think.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 7:14 PM PST up reply actions  

At This Stage - What I Would Like Vs What I Expect

Lineup I would like to see:

Lewis/Torres RF
Sanchez 2B
Huff/DeRosa 1B/LF
Panda 3B/1B
DeRosa/Uribe LF/3B
Rowand CF
Renteria SS
Posey C

The lineup I expect to see moves Rowand to leadoff against lefties and players Schierholtz against righties hitting 6th and playing RF instead of Lewis.

Bench I would like to see:

Rod Barajas C – Excellent Defensive Catcher with some pop of the bench
Ishikawa 1B/LF
Uribe/Huff IF/1B
Torres/Lewis OF
Schierholtz OF

The bench I expect to see replaces Barajas with Torrealba, Lewis with Velez, and has Schierhlotz becoming the platoon partner with Torres.

The rotation I would like to see and expect are the same: Lincecum, Zito, Cain, J.Sanchez, and Bumgarner.

The bullpen I would like to see and expect are the same: Wilson, Kiko Calero, Romo, Medders, Martinez, Affeldt, and Runzler.

by giantsrainman on Jan 12, 2010 7:32 PM PST reply actions  

that’s worth 100 loses right there, nice job

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 7:33 PM PST up reply actions  

any line up with 140+ games of renteria = under .500

"The criticism was so brutal that Sabean was forced to declare, at a press conference, "I am not an idiot." Thus, the pattern of Sabean's relationship to his critics was established."

by sfgiants420 on Jan 12, 2010 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey, you don’t know that, he could come on for a strong year

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Not bad, actually

I still don’t think they’re going to platoon Huff. I’m pretty sure he’s gonna play every day, at least until he obviously stinks.

Why keep Ishikawa? He’s out of options, and he’s not going to learn to hit on the bench. A bench player who isn’t a good hitter and can only play first doesn’t seem very useful.

Did the Giants sign Kiko Calero and I missed it, or is that a forecast? And I guess I have the same question about Medders.

by taliesin on Jan 12, 2010 7:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Two Corrections

Replace “moves Rowand to leadoff against lefties” with “moves Rowand to leadoff against righties” and replace “players Schierholtz against righties” with “plays Schierhlotz against righties” in “The lineup I expect to see”.

by giantsrainman on Jan 12, 2010 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Aubrey Huff passed his physical today, and the Giants are expected to officially announce the player’s one-year contract tomorrow.

The Giants see Huff as a first baseman, meaning Pablo Sandoval would spend most of his time at third base with Mark DeRosa targeted for left field.
_ John Shea

by DFAAurillia on Jan 12, 2010 7:33 PM PST reply actions  

If there was ever a candidate for a rebound season, it’s probably the guy with the BABIP 30 points below career average.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by GiantPain on Jan 12, 2010 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm glad pablo isn't playing first

I really didn’t want that to happen.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

This.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I would’ve freaked, how many errors…

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I FUCKING MISS BASEBALLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I might even watch that 14 innings loss to the Rockies right now. Ill just turn it off after Velez’s triple.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 8:36 PM PST reply actions  

it’s the long dark tea-time of the baseball fan’s soul.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 10:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I was thinking.

Ive decided that I am actually satisfied with the moves Sabean has made this offseason for several reasons.
Although non-tendering Garko may have been a mistake, I really dont think its as big of a deal as some people seem to think it is. Baggs seems to think that Garko would have made about as much as the Giants are now paying Huff. Garko averages a .792 OPS while Huff has a career average .812 OPS. Huff’s downside is that he is a few years old than Garko, and had a terrible season last year. Still, even if he returns to his career average, which is not unlikely at age 33, he will be a productive player, and probably will post similar number to Garko.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 9:08 PM PST reply actions  

Didnt mean to post this yet.

Im also okay with them because I think Sabean realizes that our chances off making a championship run this season are low. I am hopeful that his plan is to wait until next season when the free agent market will be stronger, and we can find a stronger replacement for 1B for a cheaper price. Also next year will most likely be the first year that our young studs start will make a huge impact on the team. Dont get me wrong, Posey and Bumgarner will most likely help the team this year, but I think next year will be the year when they really change from ‘promising’ players to “good” players. Also, we may have Brandon Crawford to replace Renteria. If Sabean saves money this year, so that we can sign a better player next year, that will set us up for a stretch of playoff years, then it will be worth sitting through another offense-challenged team this season.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 9:16 PM PST up reply actions  

This is how I feel about the Giants offseason…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHKTE75dgE4

by DFAAurillia on Jan 12, 2010 9:58 PM PST up reply actions  

YOU STOLE THAT FROM BILL SIMMONS

(right? or is he just THAT unoriginal?)

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Huh? How did I steal a Family Guy clip from Bill Simmons?

by DFAAurillia on Jan 12, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Ahh, he is that unoriginal

during the pats game on sunday he tweeted that link saying that’s how the game made him feel.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah. I’m a simmons fan but not a twitter fan.

by DFAAurillia on Jan 12, 2010 10:34 PM PST up reply actions  

IM POOPIN

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I really dont think its as big of a deal as some people seem to think it is.

I don’t think any of the contracts/moves by themselves are a big deal, but for me a lot of small moves has added up to RAGE.

co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?

by kennv on Jan 13, 2010 6:47 AM PST up reply actions  

NO AURELIA

I swear to god, if i see another 'DOYERS' license plate, I'm gonna scream.

by Classy_Argonaut on Jan 12, 2010 9:45 PM PST reply actions  

OT: Anyone really know how to ice skate?? i think i’m screwed for this class 4 days a week for half the semester… basic ice skating… did it today and was the slowest person out there

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:12 PM PST reply actions  

Nope, but i know how to fall down and bruise my ass on a sheet of ice while wearing razor blades on my feet.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Yep… and you know what’s worse? The entire class knows how to skate since they’re all from fucking ohio… while i’m the only californian.. plus, i’m part hispanic… this just proves my point, please let me know of a mexican NHL player

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Jose LeFavrezales. Hes Mexicanadian.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions  

DOESNT COUNT!!!!! well… kinda… but you see my point, it’s gonna be a fun semester

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I know how

but I really don’t know how to teach you over the internet. That could be tricky.

Hockey is the shit to play, though. It’s worth it to learn skating.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Really? i mean basically dude, i know that the easiest way to learn is just to go try it… Bend your knees, lean forward, and just relax

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Try straightening your knees and leaning forward. It will make you the most popular person in the class.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ll be known on a nickname basis

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Just takes practice

and good balance. Always lean in the direction you want to go, too. And make sure your skates are pointing the direction you want to go, obviously. Otherwise you fall over pretty fast.

AND MAKE SURE YOUR SKATES ARE SHARP. Can’t stress that enough. Makes a HUGE difference.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Yea, good point! thanks man, i’m using figure skates, so those are tough to get used to, i used to skate a little when i was a kid, and then i used like hockey skates, i got the hang of those quickly… but i almost think of it as rollerblading

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, it's basically rollerblading

only better, because it’s easier to stop once you figure it out. Just sorta slide to either side.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Yea exactly, so i’m excited more than i am worried, just gotta figure it out

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Right on

if you have that attitude, you’ll figure it out. Just take it seriously and have some fun. I’m no expert, but once you get comfortable it’s really nice to fly around the rink

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Pretty much dude, “have some fun” i’ll definitely do that with the eye candy and just having my roommate in the class will be great… and definitely, i need to start skating faster

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:34 PM PST up reply actions  

haha

well don’t start skating fast before you’re comfortable. That will lead to unfortunate events occurring.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:39 PM PST up reply actions  

well… i’ll work on that, i’ll just ask for help when needed from that sexy teacher

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions  

HOT FOR TEECHUR

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

she just graduated… former figure skater on the team at Miami, and Miami girls are GORGEOUS

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

they thought they were headed for florida, but hello Ohio!

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 10:44 PM PST up reply actions  

nice

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

The last time I skated, I hadn’t done so for about 5 years, and I cracked the back of my head on the ice going fast before I felt comfortable.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 11:18 PM PST up reply actions  

egggzactly

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

well, i did fall today… hands and knees… but i did learn how to jump and dip… plus i skated a little faster

by PiKAgiant on Jan 13, 2010 8:10 AM PST up reply actions  

rite on

falling is part of the process, just make it as unpainful as possible

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 13, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

and time will probably help with that

by PiKAgiant on Jan 13, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Sooo… not an ice skater, but I have a lot of practice falling (more properly being thrown) and one of the things that was emphasized greatly is the danger of breaking your wrist by sticking your hands out to try and break your fall… I’m curious if they teach how to fall in this sort of class?

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 13, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions  

yea they do, you actually should just cross your arms and and make a fist and try to fall on your butt

by PiKAgiant on Jan 13, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

nice

i can ice skate a little but, but learning was PAINFUL

by sfoakbay on Jan 13, 2010 8:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

same with skateboarding. You learn to just take the fall with your body instead of putting your hands out. Putting you hands out pretty much just screws you over

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 14, 2010 3:06 AM PST up reply actions  

It’s better than cracking the font of your head on the ice and losing one and a half teeth like I did the last time I went skating.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 12, 2010 11:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Jeez. That makes my memory seem fond.

Dandelions and rainbows, in fact.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 12, 2010 11:31 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s not so bad. Crowns are pretty convenient as long as they don’t fall out.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 12, 2010 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

1.5 TLPSA

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 13, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions  

If you're sticking with the class

just get a pair of hockey skates. I spent more time tripping over the toe pick than anything else.

Assuming you’re a decent athlete in general, you’ll have no trouble (which is why I am as miserable at that as most other things involving dexterity. Offensive line FTW!)

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 13, 2010 7:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Fact

He’s the only half-Hispanic Alaskan to ever play in the NHL.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jan 13, 2010 12:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I’ll be the next one, write that down

by PiKAgiant on Jan 13, 2010 4:20 AM PST up reply actions  

You’re taking an ice skating class?

Oh man. I really need to graduate.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

yea they got a basic ice skating class for 2 credits… either that or tennis… I figured, why not ice skating, i’ve never really done it so whatever

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions  

damn

that sounds awesome.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions  

yea dude, it’s a pass fail class, plus all the chicks in there are HOT!!!!!! Very sexy… my girl doesnt need to know that though

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Ice skating is good for the glutes, if you catch my drift.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 12, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh yes! it’s so much fun just to stare

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah the amount of BS classes you can take is staggerring. I took Aikido for 2 semesters and Kendo for another. I never got around to Bowling.

Its fun but you also remember that you are paying for it.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions  

BOWLING???? wow… but yea, these classes are BS, it’s a way to graduate though

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Fresno State has a bowling alley on campus, so there was a bowling class, a billiard class, all the martial arts ones, ping pong, etc.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Is there a Call of Duty class?

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:22 PM PST up reply actions  

no but there are tournaments at the student union

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Not far off, when I was living there the Dorms had halo tournaments and stuff all the time. My roommates and I were the roving ass kickers of the different halls and suites.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions  

holy shit

I just finally got MW2. That airplane level is disturbing. But the game is pretty goddamn awesome.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Airport*

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:24 PM PST up reply actions  

On the campaign? ya thats pretty brutal, thats why they give you the option to skip it.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd heard about it

and was like “whatever, it can’t be that bad”.

It was pretty bad.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Thye make the people start crawling away and spurting blood everywhere too.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:28 PM PST up reply actions  

shyeah

i was like “uhhhhhhhh ok”. Pretty obvious they were just going for pure shock appeal on that one.

This guy has the best game reviews ever. I enjoyed his take on it.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions  

ahahahahah that guy is hella funny. I totally agree with what he says too. I started playing the campaign at like 9:30 and I was done by 4 in the morning. Its hella short. i thought the Call of Duty 4 campaign was better.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Seriously

when the nuke went off I was like “OH MY GOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDD”

And that sniping mission was probably the best mission any game has ever had. That game was amazing.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I practically fucking cried at the end

“GAZ WAKE UP!!!!!”

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I KNOW RIGHT

man that ending was incredible. The first time I was so shocked I didn’t know what to do. I just shot zakaev with every bullet because I was so pissed. Maybe a little too immersive

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I dont think that can be topped. In all honesty, I was really sad and mad. Gaz had been with me like the whole time.

Warning: if you are not very far in the game do not read this because it might spoil it for you

MW2 pissed me off when Shepard kills you and Ghost right after that hella hard mission. Fuck, that pissed me off, i mean, damn.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Well

it seems with this one what they’re doing is trying everything that was awesome from the first one, but since it’s basically the same formula it’s not really that awesome the second time. It’s like that guy says in his review- you can only kill off main characters so many times before it just doesn’t have much impact. If you expect it, it’s not shocking anymore.

Gaz was there on like every mission, so when he dies it was a huge emotional letdown. In MW2 they kill a protagonist on his second mission. You have no connection to him whatsoever.

But at least it looks purty

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:00 PM PST up reply actions  

The CIA guy? Ya that was unexpected though. And they didnt kill the Marine this time. I was surprised when Shepard killed Roach still, but it was nothing like CoD4

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 11:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I was honestly stunned at COD4

I’d never even heard of it until MW2 came out, so I figured I should play the first one. It really is an all-time great

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes Yahtzee is amazing. And I love the fedora.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 13, 2010 9:20 AM PST up reply actions  

this

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 13, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

They had a disclaimer for that didn’t they? Like how it might be really tough to watch… and yea it was pretty emotional

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

When you first start the game

on the PS3 anyways, it gives you the option to skip it

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Side note

if they can make that game run so smooth and look so good on the PS3, why the fuck does madden suck so bad? This has been bugging me ever since they made the jump to next-gen consoles. IDK if the 360 version is as bad, but on the PS3 it’s super laggy and full of bugs.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Ive never played it on xBox

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:37 PM PST up reply actions  

It's very frustrating

the PS3 is like that with a lot of games. Now that I see how amazing MW2 runs I’m wondering why in the world more games aren’t like that.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Must be the game, not the system. Ive never had that problem on XBox though

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, the system is really powerful

and should be capable of awesomeness. It’s very frustrating playing some games on it because they look sorta pretty but just feel a little off for some reason.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Ive never really played a sports game on XBox, just CoD and Halo an oter games like that, so its possible that happens on XBox

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Love the sports games, NHL 10, Madden is AIGHT, except the niners BLOW… NBA 2k10 is awesome, and i’m just waiting for MLB 2k11 to get it’s act together

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I think im gonna but MLB 11

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:57 PM PST up reply actions  

oops, meant MLB 2k10 with Jeter on the cover

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Whatever. im gonna buy the next MLB game

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Sounds good to me… i just hope that this one is better than 2k9

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:59 PM PST up reply actions  

What was wrong with that?

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh man

2k9 was so awful. SO awful. Buggy, looked bad, ran choppy, crappy controls. I couldn’t even make it through 1 game before I had to send it back to gamefly. That game was a huge disappointment.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:01 PM PST up reply actions  

it was really bad… 2k10 i hope fixes all that, they need to step their game up to the show

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 11:02 PM PST up reply actions  

MEH, it was just not as fun as 2k8… there were some bugs and glitches… put it this way, it wasn’t a clean game… but for 2k10?

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 11:01 PM PST up reply actions  

lol verlander

I notice they didn’t have any gameplay footage. hmm.

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Not yet, i think they’re still workin on the game, wont come out for a little bit… next month? But yea, Verlander talking smack on both Morneu and Longoria

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 11:08 PM PST up reply actions  

said 3/2/10 on the trailer

so they got a couple months. But the show is so far ahead that there’s no way 2k is worth it if you have a ps3 (thanks, roomate!)

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:10 PM PST up reply actions  

No shit, all these sports games started sucking a little ever since it was just ONE company that made games for a sport… like madden now owns the NFL, EA sports can’t do anything with the MLB

by PiKAgiant on Jan 13, 2010 4:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

that really destroyed madden. 2k5 was a legitimate contender, and once they got knocked out of the running madden games really stopped innovating like they had been in years’ past. Fuck you, EA

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 13, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Exactly!!!! and right now the sports gaming is pathetic, except for NHL and NBA

by PiKAgiant on Jan 13, 2010 11:42 AM PST up reply actions  

2K10 will have Longoria on the cover.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Jan 13, 2010 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh yea? We played it on the 360 and i just said “what the fuck is this noise” it was crazy shit

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions  

That is sweet!!! Fresno state in fact was the first school to accept me, and given a scholarship, so i was pretty pumped to go there, but then found out i got accepted at MIami and said i’ll go to the midwest… my mom graduated there at Fresno State, plus is from there

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I definitely enjoyed my time there. I was also accepted to ASU, and they were gonna give me a 5k scholarship, but the out of state tuition would have been 10k. So I opted to stay in state.

And now I am back in Fresno.

Oh, the wheel in the sky keeps on turning, I don’t know where I’ll be tomorrow.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice, Fresno seemed like a fun school to be at, still happy about your choice with Fresno?

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, the first choice for college was great. Loved the dorms, still great friends with my roommates, and got my career going.

This second go around is starting off pretty great actually. And in the choice b/w unemployment and moving back to fresno, that is a competition that even Fresno would win everytime.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 12, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Really?? well, what i like about fresno is that they’re really building it up, like Riverpark? i used to go to fresno every other weekend, and without Riverpark it was pretty bad… And i’m Armenian so i’d go to the churches there, and all the AWESOME Armenian bakery’s and restaurants

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:35 PM PST up reply actions  

gutierezian

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 10:36 PM PST up reply actions  

haha… nope… not even close… But i really like Fresno… although the summer sucks

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

i thought that your last name was gutierez (with the one r)?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 10:39 PM PST up reply actions  

yea it is… my middle name is armenian

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions  

parents, right?

I mean, come on

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions  

maybe you didn’t get my joke?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Wait… nope i missed it

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

my understanding is that every armenian surname ends in “ian”

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 10:44 PM PST up reply actions  

OHHH, yea, well that was obvious!

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah the summer blows. Its just dry heat. AT ABOUT 114 DEGREES.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 13, 2010 9:24 AM PST up reply actions  

LOL easterners

“yeah, it’s a dry heat”.

A dry heat that makes your shoes stick to blacktop.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 13, 2010 9:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Like tap dancing on the surface of the sun.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 13, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

having lived in NY and Sacramento

I’ll take the dry heat over sticky humid heat. And its not even that humid in NY.

co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?

by kennv on Jan 13, 2010 9:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Riverpark is pretty tight. And the downtown area and tower district has some fun things. I have not been to these Armenian bakeries or restaurants.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

by scout6 on Jan 13, 2010 9:24 AM PST up reply actions  

have they fixed up the tower district much?

by PiKAgiant on Jan 13, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Haven’t been down there to look around much yet. So couldn’t tell ya.

"It appears that Sabean is playing a game of chicken with Neukom wherein he elucidates the most outrageous things he could do as ML GM without getting fired." - cornball

#2 in Fanshots

by scout6 on Jan 13, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

What scholarship do you have?

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Well.. here i have none… at Fresno State i totally forgot what it was, but it wasn’t a whole lot, it covered like half

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:28 PM PST up reply actions  

hey pika, how come you didn’t mention berkeley for grad school?

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 10:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Well… good point, i dont know if they’re gonna accept me, right now i have a 3.0 GPA in my major

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I tried to get in there for grad school and it was brutally difficult.

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Jan 12, 2010 10:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I mean, i guess it’s good to get the experience and i bet it pays off

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:35 PM PST up reply actions  

something like that, alot of schools do that… since it was IN STATE, you don’t have to pay much… but now i go to Miami and it’s incredible how much it is

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:30 PM PST up reply actions  

College is insane

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I kinda want to go out of state too, to Oregon or something, but we will see.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Yea dude, just apply and go check the schools out and see what you like

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Oregon FTW

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 10:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I like it up there, but thats gonna be expensive and I dont know if I can get in

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:46 PM PST up reply actions  

look at your icon

don’t disappoint Oski!

Are you talking U of O, or more generally? I’ve heard good things of the smaller schools and thought about Willamette once upon a time.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 13, 2010 7:19 AM PST up reply actions  

if I were doing it again

would have gone junior college for 2 years, then transferred to UC.

Would have saved me thousands and got me the same degree.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

That’s actually a great idea, good call

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah

3rd year after graduation, after my parents had run out of money to pay for school, I ran into a gal from my HS who went to DVC, then transferred right in. And she was much, much less a serious HS student than I was.

Oh well.

Parents, right?

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 11:14 PM PST up reply actions  

yea, they can definitely get on your ass about things… but that is a great idea if that’s your situation, and it works perfectly

by PiKAgiant on Jan 13, 2010 4:22 AM PST up reply actions  

I dunno

after the whole grade fraud thing, and with the budget disaster, the strategy might not be as effective as it once was.

Obviously you’ll still pay less, but you might be shut out of the school you want when the time comes to transfer.

And for anyone reading this, check with UC or your desired institution as you register for classes at the JC to make sure they transfer.

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."


Mychael Urban: Wow. Probably Dye at this point. Good outfielder, could adapt to RF at AT&T, good RBI guy.

by natteringnabob on Jan 13, 2010 7:20 AM PST up reply actions  

San Jose State has bowling too, the lanes are in the basement of the student union. I had to take that and weight training right at the end to get my worthless degree

by m34josh on Jan 13, 2010 12:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Ya, I wish we had stuff like that in high school.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:20 PM PST up reply actions  

after the 1980 Olymipics

I was all hyped up after watching Eric Heiden speed skate and the miracle on ice Hockey team.

So, me, age 7, wanted to learn how to skate.

Ended up in basic figure skating classes at Sun Valley Mall.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Sun Valley??? HAHA, you mean inside like over at the center of the mall? They have ice skating there?

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions  

i totally forgot about that

by PiKAgiant on Jan 12, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I never saw it, i heard about it though.

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it's been gone for years

I drove past there picking up my new ride around Christmas. It felt weird.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

They dont even have an ice rink there anymore. or anything. You just have to shop and eat Cinnabon. The closest rink is in walnut Creek

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Is there still an Orange Julius?

It was down at one end, with the Orange Julius right outside.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by DrStankus on Jan 12, 2010 10:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Ya its a combination Orange Julius and Dairy Queen

by GrahamCrakalaka on Jan 12, 2010 10:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I have a sequined one-piece with feathers that you can borrow.

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 13, 2010 12:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Awww… I’m sad that my I’m a Piggy Teapot edit apparently got deleted. I much prefer editing dumb posts to deleting them.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 12, 2010 11:10 PM PST reply actions  

I also enjoy when people think my edits were parts of the original post.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 12, 2010 11:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Which one was that?

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Something about whether or not the Giants are LEGIT this year. I changed the filler to something that I found particularly hilarious, as is my Grant-given right as a moderator.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 12, 2010 11:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the only filler-edit I made that was part of a thread that didn’t ultimately get deleted was this one:

http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2009/11/14/1157286/trade-opinions

Maybe that edit was a little asinine, but it still pleases me that “Didn’t Cameron Crowe make that movie man what happened there?” got 11 votes.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 12, 2010 11:16 PM PST up reply actions  

lol

very nice.

So do lame fan posts just get deleted then?

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, hacker extraordinaire. Rescuing moribund Giants lineups since 2008
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Jan 12, 2010 11:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Depends. I know Natto is a deleter if the post is particularly painful. I’m not sure what jponry’s style is. Goofus has been known to delete redundant posts from time to time, particularly in news-heavy periods. I like to edit, as long as the user gave me filler to work with. I’ve seen Grant go both the deleting and the editing route. And sometimes they just get hijacked.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 12, 2010 11:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ve deleted redundant posts only to see the person who posted it repost it. /facepalm

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 13, 2010 12:20 AM PST up reply actions  

“That’s weird, my post is gone. Must be some kind of glitch with the site. I’d better post it again.”

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Jan 13, 2010 8:12 AM PST up reply actions  

LOLedit… except now I want some potatoes but am afraid of having to wait in line.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Jan 13, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions  

let's try this again

LOLMETS

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Jan 13, 2010 12:14 AM PST reply actions  

C’mon guys. You can do it! I’m expectantly waiting to laugh my ass off at you guys.

Let's Play a Lineup Game!

The Kids: Lewis, Posey, Sandoval, Bowker, Schierholtz, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Amezaga

Sabean's Vets: Rowand, Sanchez, DeRosa, Sandoval, Huff, Renteria, Schierholtz, Posey

The Kids' CHONE WAR projection= 12.7
Sabean's Vets' CHONE War projection= 13.5

by dregarx on Jan 13, 2010 12:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Giants sign Pedro Martinez

’s cousin.

I don’t know why SBN formats the news like that. Let me try again. Giants sign Pedro Martinez

’s cousin.

Weird. Not my fault. I wouldn’t do this sort of thing for cheap laughs.

http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2010/1/13/1249312/giants-sign-pedro-martinez

by Grant Brisbee on Jan 13, 2010 8:49 AM PST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about San Francisco Giants.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Sp-giants21_ph_t_0501991449_part6_small
The McCovey Chronicles Fantasy League, For Money.
Calvin_and_hobbes_small
2012 Adoption Draft: Who's In?
Calvin_and_hobbes_small
2012 Adoption Draft: Rules Discussion
Honus_wagner4_small
Hector & Gregor's Excellent Adventure (In the VWL)

Recent FanPosts

T_36396_small
2012 MLB Draft Snapshot - Power Hitters
T_36396_small
2012 MLB Draft Snapshot – College Left Handed Pitchers
Img_0100_small
Cormac McCarthy novel The Road
T_36396_small
2012 MLB Draft Snapshot – HS Left handed pitchers
Small
Angel Villalona reported to have a work visa
T_36396_small
2012 MLB Draft Snapshot – The Catchers
Hidey-fern_small
Hiking on the 18th?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Manager

174246766_ea2fd78204_small Grant Brisbee

Moderators

Minime_small Natto

Fawlty_small WalrusMan

Goofus_small Goofus

Howtheyscoredcat_small howtheyscored

Det_7193_small jponry

Authors

09_small JT Jordan

Small steve S