minor lines, 9/5/09

by BruteSentiment on Sep 6, 2009 1:19 PM PDT

Today's HIghlights: (a) Eric Surkamp has a spectacular complete game: 2 hits, 0 walks, 12 strikeouts; (b) Ryan Cavan's late season power surge continues with another home run; (c) Brock Bond has a 4-for-4 day over two games in a doubleheader.

Fresno Grizzlies (Triple-A): Reno 10, Fresno 1

C Adam Witter - 1-3, 1 R, 1 HR (6), 2 SO, .240

2B Freddy Sanchez - 1-3, .333

1B Kevin Frandsen - 1-4, 1 2B (19), 1 SO, .296

3B-2B Matt Downs - 1-4, 1 2B (31), .291

SP T.J. Brewer - 1.0 IP, 4 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 3 BB, 45.00 ERA, L (0-1)

RP Joe Martinez - 4.0 IP, 6 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 1 BB, 3 SO, 1 WP, 4.89 ERA

RP Ronnie Ray - 2.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 SO, 5.79 ERA

Game Notes: A couple of pitchers not very used to Triple-A got pounded in the team's final weekend. Brewer got the start, but a double, three singles and three walks led to a rough five-run first inning. Martinez came in for his second appearance since being optioned back to the minors, and was effective for three innings, but in the fifth he gave up a walk, a single and a triple started a four-run inning to put Reno up 9-0. The only run for the Grizzlies came as Witter hit a home run in the sixth to lead off the inning.

Team Notes: Witter has two home runs in his last two games started...Sanchez has gone 1-for-3 in each of his three games rehabbing in Fresno...Frandsen has been hitting .333 over his last ten games...Downs got his first extra-base hit since a triple on August 30th...Brewer had a 4.02 ERA in 32 games (six starts) in San Jose this season. Brewer was making his first appearance above High-A in his career...Martinez has given up ten earned runs in 7 1/3 innings since being optioned down to Fresno.

Connecticut Defenders (Double-A): Reading 9, Connecticut 4 (7 Innings)

2B Brock Bond - 3-3, 2 R, 1 2B (21), .336

3B Raul Castro - 3-3, 1 R, 1 HR (3), 1 RBI, .283

SS Brandon Crawford - 1-2, 1 R, 1 2B (26), .260

CF Mike McBryde - 2-2, 1 RBI, .305

SP Daryl Maday - 4.2 IP, 9 H, 7 R, 7 ER, 3 BB, 2 SO, 2 HR, 1 WP, 4.25 ERA, L (6-6)

RP Bryan Millikan - 2.1 IP, 1 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 3 BB, 0 SO, 1 HR, 7.71 ERA

Game Notes: Reading busted out for a big start to this double header. A walk opened the game, and a pair of doubles with a single to score three run, and a two-run homer gave Reading the 5-0 lead before Connecticut even came up to bat. The Defenders picked up solo runs in each of the first three innings, including Castro's home run in the second. However, Reading kept scoring runs to keep the lead.

Game 2: Reading 4, Connecticut 3 (7 Innings)

2B-3B - Sharlon Schoop - 2-4, 1 R, 1 2B (15), 1 RBI, 2 SO, .241

C Tyler LaTorre - 1-3, 1 2B (10), .267

CF Mike Mooney - 1-3, 1 RBI, 1 SO, .251

SP Steven Calicutt - 2.1 IP, 2 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 3 BB, 2 SO, 11.12 ERA, L (0-1)

RP Craig Whitaker - 2.2 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 3 SO, 2.30 ERA

RP Dan Griffin - 2.0 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 SO, 5.42 ERA

Game Notes: The sweep was on as Reading held off Connecticut late. Reading scored three runs on a bases-loaded double in the third inning to make it 4-0. Connecticut got a run in the fourth on a two-out RBI single by Mooney. In the seventh, a leadof walk by Bond and an RBI double by Schoop started a rally. After two quick outs, a single moved the runner to third, and Crawford hit a ground ball that resulted in an error and a second run, but Castro struck out to end the game.

Team Notes: Bond ended up 4-for-4 overall on the day, with a pinch hit in the second game. That makes him 9-for-16 over the last four games...Castro's home run was his first since August 30th...Crawford is 8-for-24 so far in the month of September...McBryde is the second extra-base hit since the start of August...Maday has had a 4.61 ERA since the All-Star Break...Since coming up to Connecticut, Calicutt has three strikeouts with five walks in 5 2/3 innings.

San Jose Giants (A-Advanced): Lake Elsinore 4, San Jose 2

C Nestor Rojas - 2-3, 1 R, 1 HR (3), 1 RBI, .298

1B C.J. Ziegler - 1-3, 1 R, 1 HR (5), 1 RBI, 1 SO, .252

RF Roger Kieschnick - 1-4, 1 2B (37), 1 SO, .297

SP Oliver Odle - 6.0 IP, 7 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 1 BB, 6 SO, 5.37 ERA, L (8-13)

RP Wilmin Rodriguez - 2.0 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 1 SO, 2.72 ERA

Game Notes: Lake Elsinore took the lead in the fourth as they got consecutive singles and a walk to lead off the inning, loading the bases with nobody out. A groundout scored one run, and that was followed by two RBI-singles to give the Storm a 3-0 lead. Ziegler homered in the fifth to make it 3-1. In the seventh, it was Rojas' turn to homer, closing the lead to 3-2, but in the bottom of the seventh Lake Elsinore got one more run to ice the game.

Team Notes: Rojas has hit just three home runs in 49 combined games between San Jose and Fresno...Ziegler has hit .252/.315/.411 in 43 games in San Jose this season...Kieschnick has seven doubles in his last ten games...Odle has given up 81 hits in his last 57 1/3 innings...Rodriguez has given up five earned runs in his last two outings, increasing his ERA from 2.03 to 2.72.

Augusta GreenJackets (A): Augusta 2, Rome 1

3B Charlie Culberson - 1-4, 1 2B (16), 2 RBI, .242

CF Francisco Peguero - 2-4, .345

C Johnny Monell - 1-3, 1 R, 1 2B (21), 1 SO, .277

SP Eric Surkamp - 9.0 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 0 BB, 12 SO, 1 HR, 3.30 ERA, W (11-5)

Game Notes: Surkamp had a spectacular game, holding Rome to just two hits. Unfortunately, one hit was a home run that led off the third inning, giving the Braves a 1-0 lead. But other than a two-out single in the ninth, Surkamp kept the Braves off base. With a leadoff double in the fifth by Monell, a walk and a hit batter loaded the bases for Culberson. Culberson doubled home two runs.

Team Notes: Surkamp has come on strong in the past few weeks. Over his last four starts, he's had a 1.65 ERA with 39 strikeouts in 27 1/3 innings of work...Culberson has three doubles and a triple in his last four games...Monell had gone hitless since hitting two home runs on September 2nd before his double today.

Salem-Keizer Volcanoes (Short Season-A): Salem-Keizer 14, Eugene 7

DH Chris Dominguez - 3-4, 1 R, 1 RBI, 1 SF, .254

1B Luke Anders - 2-3, 4 R, 2 RBI, 2 BB, .284

LF Dan Cook - 2-6, 2 R, 1 HR (2), 2 RBI, 2 SO, .294

SS Ryan Cavan - 1-3, 1 R, 1 HR (9), 1 RBI, .273

RF Ryan Lollis - 3-4, 2 R, 1 2B (9), 3 RBI, 1 BB, .312

SP Taylor Rogers - 5.0 IP, 3 H, 4 R, 2 ER, 2 BB, 5 SO, 1 HR, 7.54 ERA, W (2-4)

RP Kyle Vazquez - 1.0 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 0 SO, 3.66 ERA

Game Notes: The Volcanoes exploded in this game. Eugene stepped out to a 2-0 lead in the first, but Lollis hit an RBI double in the second en route to a three-run inning. In the third, a pair of errors helped the Volcanoes to a 6-2 lead. In the fourth, Anders hit a 2-run single with the bases loaded as S-K went up 10-2. Eugene got two runs back in the top of the fifth, but home runs by Cavan and Cook in the fifth gave the team a dominating 14-4 lead.

Team Notes: Dominguez broke an 0-for-10 slump, and had gone just 2-for-22 over his last six games...Anders has gone 6-for-16 over his last four games with a double and six RBI...Cook's only other home run this season came back in July...Cavan's late-season power surge continues, with eight home runs in his last 25 games after just one in his first 32 games...Rogers has given up 16 earned runs in his last 11 2/3 innings of work...Vazquez has a 3.33 ERA in relief after posting a 4.38 ERA in three games as a starter.

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Surkamp’s K totals are pretty surprising this year considering his stuff is kinda pedestrian. Is he a polished guy just exploiting younger competition or is he better than that?

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Sep 6, 2009 1:35 PM PDT reply actions

Forgot to add, his K/9 is 11.58. That’s good for 157 punchouts in 122 innings pitched. Among pitchers with at least 100 IP in the SAL, Surkamp is #2 in K/9.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Sep 6, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions

I was just going to ask, does anyone have a scouting report?

I’d be pretty surprised if he’s k’ng almost 12 per 9 in full season ball based purely off of deception. I’d guess he has some pretty nasty stuff, b/c if it was based on plus velocity I’d have trouble believing he’d last as far as he did in the draft as a tall lefty college pitcher. Anyone know for sure?

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 6, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Looks like a good command, little velocity type of pitcher to me right now.

2008 pre-draft report from PGCrosschecker:

SCOUTING REPORT (3/1): Surkamp worked in tandem with his former Moeller High pitching mate Andrew Brackman at the front of the N.C. State rotation last season before Brackman, who was drafted in the first round by the New York Yankees, was sidelined with a sore arm that led to Tommy John surgery. Surkamp struggled to win games when Brackman went down and ended up with a 4-5, 3.47 record with 84 strikeouts and 27 walks in 96 innings. Despite his big, strong frame—and, in stark contrast to Brackman, who topped out at 99 mph—Surkamp does not throw particularly hard and his stuff is considered marginal by pro standards. His fastball is just in the 86-89 mph range though will touch 90, but he has an advanced feel for pitching and can keep hitters off balance with a three-pitch mix. He rarely throws consecutive pitches at the same speed or to the same location. He went 2-0, 1.85 with 26 strikeouts in 24 innings for Orleans of the Cape Cod League last summer, before being added to Team USA’s roster for the latter part of its international schedule. If Surkamp can somehow increase the velocity on his fastball even 2-3 mph, it would help his stock considerably in the draft, but most scouts believe he is what he is and project he’ll be a 5th-10th round pick in 2008. He has a good changeup and an average breaking ball but needs to spot those pitches, along with his fastball, consistently to be effective.

Sounds exactly like the type of pitcher that might succeed in the lower levels against younger competition.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Sep 6, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Perhaps his change has improved.

I just have real trouble believing a lefty put up those K numbers in low A (plus nearly 10 K’s per nine in a loaded 2007 cape cod league) without a go to strikeout pitch.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 6, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions

I just have real trouble believing a lefty put up those K numbers in low A (plus nearly 10 K’s per nine in a loaded 2007 cape cod league) without a go to strikeout pitch.

It doesn’t seem that outlandish for a more polished pitcher to do well in a league with younger competition. I’ll see if I can find some other examples that are similar to Surkamp.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Sep 6, 2009 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Since 2005 here are the other Augusta Green Jackets that have averaged 10 K/9 while starting.

MadBum 2008 – 10.4 K/9
Jonathan Sanchez 2005 – 11.9 K/9

That’s it.

Also the K ratio in the Cape was against similar aged competition (Posey, Alonso, etc.)

I could be way off here as I’m completely in the dark, but to me the data suggests that Eric Surkamp has some kind of SO pitch that played really well in LO A and the Cape. It might not play at upper levels, but if you average 11.6/K in full season ball, I think there’s a good chance you have at least one plus pitch.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 6, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Off the top of my head, Greg Bruso had almost a strike out per inning at San Jose. Not quite Surkamp’s rate, but it was against a higher level of competition and he was younger.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 6, 2009 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions

This being in 2003. His strike outs plummeted after he was promoted to Norwich later in the season.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 6, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions

In 2003 as a 23 year old Greg Bruso averaged 8.5 K/9 over a span of 84 innings. He struck out 77 in the 13 games he started.

When Bruso was the same age as Surkamp he struck out 8.7/9 at Salem-Keizer.

I don’t think Bruso’s numbers are all that comparable to Surkamp.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 6, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Oops! I misread his birthdate. I thought he was 19, not 23.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 6, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions

One addedum…

This year, Eric Surkamp and four other SAL pitchers have pitched 100 innings as a starter have averaged over 10 K/9. I used 100 IP as an arbitrary cutoff point in order to focus on guys that stayed in the league for a while. The other 4 are:

Matt Moore – 12.9 K/9 at 20
Dexter Carter – 10.9 K/9 at 22
Jordan Lyles – 104 K/9 at 19
Randall Delgado – 10.2 K/9 at age 19

The highly regarded Jason Knapp (just turned 19) fell three innings short of also making the list.

Those guys are all pretty highly regarded prospects.

22 is plenty old for the league, but we’ve sent many a 22 year old to the Low class A and very few have done what Surkamp has.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 6, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Closest comp I can think of in the last few years is the Sally was Matt Maloney who put up about a 10k/9 as a 22 year old with what scouts called fringey stuff. He’s had scattered success since then in the high minors, and is having a decent year in the IL this year as a 25 year old in the Reds system. Interestingly, though his K rate went down in the high minors it’s always stayed in the 8 per 9 range despite his lack of plus pitches. Then of course there was the strange case of Yusimiero Petit who always racked up huge K numbers with stuff that just mystified every scout who ever saw him.

But sometimes there are pitchers who are just difficult to pick up for whatever reason, Chris Young being an extreme example. Young by comparison, pitched in the Sally at 22 and 23, and had a K rate just under 9k/9 both times.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

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by Roger on Sep 6, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Maloney’s a decent comp. He still averaged 2 Ks less per 9 than Surkamp.

Interestingly, Maloney’s K’s did hold up at upper levels to an extent.

Maloney was a 3rd rd pick, and in 07 BA ranked him as the Phillies 9th rated prospect remarking that he has the upside of a #4 starter.

IMO the Maloney comp. reinforces that this guy is a prospect worth following.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 6, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions

I definitely agree — I really was hoping that he’d get a mid-year promotion to the Cal League for some more age appropriate competition. And at this point, I’m hoping he skips SJ all together and gets a AA assignment for his 23 year. It’s just hard to get a good read on some of these guys who play below their age-appropriate levels.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

by Roger on Sep 7, 2009 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions

Misch? I can’t remember his K rate at lower levels, but IIRC his K/BB was very good. It wa the reason I took notice in the first place.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 7, 2009 10:23 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions

Misch K’d 6.3/9 in Augusta in 2003 as a 21 year old. He did so in 86.2 IP.

I went back a little further and I could only find three other guys in the SAL that have put up over 10 Ks/9 as a starter since 2005. I still used 100 IP as a a cutoff.

Bradon Erbe 2006 – 10.4 K/9
Will Inman 2006 – 10.4 K/9
Scott Elbert 2006 – 10.0 K/9

All of these guys were over 2 years younger than Surkamp when they did it. Though none were quite as prolific with the Ks as Surkamp has been.

I think Inman does lend some credence to the theory that Surkamp’s success is due to polish, command and deception.

Inman is two years younger than Surkamp, but he’s a RHP with fringe velocity (we assume Surkamp does as well.) Inman at barely 6 feet and 215 pounds, doesn’t have Surkamp’s classic pitcher’s build.

Still, BA had him as the Brewers number 3 prospect after the 2006 season and the Padres #7 prospect after the 2007.

I’m not suggesting that Surkamp should be on top ten lists. He’s too old and advanced for the league. I just think he may have more upside than he’s been given credit for.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 7, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions

Surkamp’s K rate this year is extraordinarily high. There just aren’t a lot of 12k/9 guys out there at any level. So I agree he’s definitely worth watching.

By the way, a few other guys who we can add to your list (just to try to get a clearer idea of what kinds of prospects we’re talking about include
Delin Bestances (10.53/9 in 2008)
Kyle Schmidt (actually 9.96 but I’ll round him up to 10 in 2007)

a couple guys just under your cutoff:
Faustos de la Santos (11.15 k/9 in 97.2 IP in 2007)
Bud Norris (10.89 in 96.2 IP in 2007).

And of course this year’s Sally K leader Matthew Moore, who just turned 20 and put up an eye popping 12.88 k/9 this year. Yowsa! Don’t know what conclusions can be drawn from this list of guys, but they’re all yours to study over and report back.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

by Roger on Sep 7, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions

Guess I missed some guys. Thanks for the correction.

Of the 9-10 guys mentioned, all but Kyle Schmidt were considered pretty serious prospects around the time of their K heavy SAL stints. Schmidt was 24 when he did it.

Now most of the guys are a good deal younger than Surkamp and most likely have at least a few ticks more on their fastball.

I have no idea what Surkamp’s season means, but it does put him in pretty good company.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 7, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions

I remembered Yusmeiro Petit as being a guy who put up big K numbers in the minors with stuff that scouts seemed to think was fringey…

In 2004, as a 19 year old in A-ball, high-A ball and AA, he struck out a combined 12.9 per 9.
In 2005, at 20, it dropped to a still good 9.8 per 9 in AA and AAA.

He hasn’t really shown the same strikeout ability since then, but has managed a decent 7.0 per 9 in the majors so far with good walk-rates. His main problem is an inability to keep hits down in the majors so far.

It’s obviously not a perfect comp, because of the ages, but there’s one.

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by jponry on Sep 7, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions

I though about Petit. Stats wise that's a pretty good comp.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 7, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions

oops, enter fail.

I think Petit’s body type is a big difference as well. He was like 180 when he signed and was listed at 230 by 2006 (when he was the Mets number 2 prospect.)

He looked even heavier than that when he faced the Giants. I’m not so sure that Petit wouldn’t be a decent back of the rotation starter if he lost 30 pounds.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 7, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Adam Cowart imo

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Sep 6, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions

As a 24 year old at Augusta Adam Cowart averaged 5.04 K/9. He did have a whale of a season though.

Surkamp may stall at upper levels just like Cowart but they seem like quite different pitchers.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 6, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions

I concur

I don’t think that Cowart can realistically be compared to almost any pitcher outside of the general age vs. level and success issues.

Between Cowart’s unique injury issue, throwing motion and so forth, it’s hard to draw a comparison between him and others. But then, maybe that’s too detailed a comparison.

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by BruteSentiment on Sep 6, 2009 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Huh

For some reason, I thought he’d had a better K-rate than that. Goes to show (yet again) that you should look up relevant stats before making claims about them.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Sep 6, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Grizzlies game was pretty sad overall..

but Witter’s HR was a serious “bomb”. RF at the Aces park backs up to the Truckee River. Witter hit the cement walkway above the grass seating area and bounced to the river. RF is 340, the visitor bullpen is behind that, and then the grass seating area. Best guess is the ball landed about 435 or so from the plate

I’ll be there tonight and Monday as well. I will take some pics at the Final game to post on Monday night. I am going to try get to Maroul, Wald and some of the AA guys recently brought up.

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by nvsfg on Sep 6, 2009 2:19 PM PDT reply actions

Maday hasn’t had quite the late season meltdown that Pucetas has, but his last few starts have been pretty ugly, too.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

by Roger on Sep 6, 2009 3:05 PM PDT reply actions

Brock Bond

has no chance to ever make the big club. No power. Yeah sure he’s hitting .330 with an OBP around .420 – but who cares. In fact, he is FAR too patient to ever make the big club.

by lexluth7 on Sep 6, 2009 7:51 PM PDT reply actions

How can you not be impressed with Bond? Sure, the utter lack of power makes him marginal, but that’s some impressive OBP. And it’s not as if the OBP is from a stupid amount of HBP – the guy is hitting .330.

How did Eckstein compare in the minors?

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 7, 2009 10:28 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions

I think there was an element of sarcasm to lexluth’s comment.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Sep 7, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions

Ok I fell in

To answer my own question though:

Eckstein, AA Trenton, age 24 season: .313/.440/.416

Bond, AA Connecticut, age 23 season: .335/.428/.411

Bond may not be affected by Dodd so much as sluggers. That seems a decent comp and if anything favors Bond because of age and park. I don’t know about defense.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 7, 2009 12:41 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions

What about defense? At least Eckstein was capable of faking SS for a few years. Bond seems stuck at 2B.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Sep 7, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions

K's

Bond’s K rate has been 13%-16%. Eckstein never went above 11%.

Also, Eckstein wasn’t actually a good hitter. He was decent, and got most of his value from playing a solid SS.

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by Cookyman on Sep 7, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions

BA’s organizational report for SF this week is on Bond. Interestingly, the Giants drafted him by mistake — they were trying to draft Casey Bond, who they then took with their next pick.

Insert: Giants can’t recognize OBP when they see it joke here.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

by Roger on Sep 7, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Sarchasm? Or link?

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by BruteSentiment on Sep 7, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions

True that Brock Bond was drafted by mistake – oops! Don’t have a link for you, but it was an article in Baseball America on 8/22 by Andy Baggarly titled “Better Bond” – Giants getting hits out of former error. Apparently they recognized their error after drafting Brock in the 24th round of the 2007 draft and took Casey Bond the next round. He only lasted two seasons. Only the Giants……

by flyonthewall on Sep 7, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Links behind the subscription wall — I read it in their print publication. Not even a supposition – the organization openly admitted it was a fortuitous clerical error.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

by Roger on Sep 8, 2009 6:29 AM PDT up reply actions