Lewis wants out
I'm sure teams are lining up to procure the services of a player who drives in 16 runs a season and can't catch anything other than a routine flyball.
5 months ago
rxmeister
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Hmmmm.
May be just as well. Baggs has alluded to the fact that Lewis cannot admit his own mistakes on the field.
Gary Darling, go DIAFF.
by The Enchanter on Sep 5, 2009 6:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm too sexy to sit on the bench
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 5, 2009 6:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t like reading comment like this mid-season. I’d much rather have him be vocal about this after the season is over.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Sep 5, 2009 7:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A lot of griping going on. Maybe Bochy isn’t that great of a players manager either. What does he bring to this team again?
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
by ResDog on Sep 5, 2009 7:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
When he was hired, I seem to recall that one of the big knocks on Bochy was his inability, or unwillingness to develop young players. This was actually the reason SD was willing to let him go I believe. But this trait has gotten so bad that I feel it has cost us some wins. Sitting Nate vs. a LHP in favor of Winn, when everybody knows that Winn cannot hit LHP, is typical.
Given what is already on the payroll for next year, and the intention of using newly available payroll for a stud corner OF, the Giants are going to be FORCED to play younger players next year, since there wont be any money left after said corner OF is signed. (Of course last year’s lack of success in bringing in a corner infielder via FA might be a forewarning about Sabien’s ability to bring in a OF this upcoming winter, so we might end up overpaying for marginal talent again. )
I read a headline, but not the article, recently that stated that Bochy and Tracy are favorites for Manager of the Year. Has anyone ever been in the running for MOY and not been brought back?
by toofruss on Sep 5, 2009 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I give Bochy credit for turning the bullpen into what it is today. I believe he has built a good track record with his pitching staffs. That’s about as far as I can extend credit to him though.
by Fresburg on Sep 5, 2009 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much this.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops, that was intended for cookyman but I agree with you too.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Girardi won it and got fired
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Sep 5, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sympathize, but he should probably have kept quiet.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 7:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, hell I don’t blame him. Him, Bowker, Frandsen, and others….the Giants just don’t seem to treat the younger players all that well. Lack of respect? Lack of knowledge regarding athlete psychology? I’ve long said the Giants need to have a sports psychologist on staff. Management just doesn’t seem to “get” how to deal with younger players. Maybe two or three of players speaking out will change the approach.
ROFLOL change the approach, yeah right. When has THAT ever happened, I’m going back to bed now cuz’ I still must be asleep.
by Merope on Sep 5, 2009 7:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is much worse, though
The difference is that Bowker and Frandsen put up good numbers in the minors, but stunk in the majors, and were never given another chance. Fred hit well from the second he was in the majors, and then was just randomly benched, first for career minor leaguer Andres Torres, then for freaking Eugenio Velez, all while Randy Winn (.263/.314/.361) continued to receive consistent playing time (in fact, Winn is leading the team in PA’s). It’s not that Lewis might have produced had he been given a chance – he was given a chance, did produce, and then was sentenced to spend the rest of the season, and probably his Giants career, on the bench.
Fred Lewis is 28 years old. He’s at his peak. In a few years, he’ll lose his speed, and won’t be able to start anymore. He’s not likely to go into coaching or scouting. As far as I know, playing baseball is the only true talent he has. He has a few years to play the game as well as he can, and to make as much money possible, before he spends the rest of his life selling cars or something. He’s wasting these years on a team that simply doesn’t deserve him. Not that he’s a great player, or even a good one, but whatever value he does have is being completely wasted because Sabean and Bochy believe that a .315 OBP from the leadoff spot is acceptable, or whatever it is that makes them believe Lewis shouldn’t start over Velez.
Lewis shouldn’t have made these comments now, no doubt. But no, I can’t blame him for feeling this way, or for asking for a trade – he has no future in San Francisco as long as the organization continues to be run the way it’s being run right now.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 11 recs
/ stamped Agreed
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Sep 5, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for typing all that
so i don’t have to. agree 109%
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 5, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If his defense was fudamentally adequate I’m sure he’d play every game. However, I think the coaches and pitchers would feel safer with a scarecrow in LF over K-Fred.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This argument would work a whole lot better if it wasn’t EUGENIO FREAKIN’ VELEZ who’s getting all the PT in LF.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on, their respective defenses are a wash.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh yeah, exactly. So we’re playing an equally bad/mediocre/horrible instincts but good range due to speed guy out there who is a worse hitter. That’s awesome.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what the difference, honestly? Like .2 win shares or some BS. Plus, isn’t velez a little more green than Lewis? Meaning, there’s a chance that Geno hasn’t learned/developed all that he can. Whereas wysiwyg with lewis, and evidently it’s a mediocre player who is also a pouty bitch.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Velez is 27 years old. He had a pretty terrible minor league career until he OPS’d over .900 as a 24 year old in low-A. Since then, he’s been mediocre as a 25 year old in AA/AAA, okay as a 26 year old in AAA and then pretty mediocre as a 27 year old in AAA.
What you see is what you get with him too.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What you see is what you get with him too.
Minus the pouty bitch part.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather have the league average hitting pouty bitch than the crappy hitting speedster who can’t use his speed for anything useful.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who says Velez
Isn’t a “pouty bitch”? He just has nothing to complain about, since he keeps on being given opportunities he did not earn and does not deserve.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you honestly believe velez doesn’t deserve to play? the guy has provided a pretty substantial spark to the offense. i don’t think he should play as often as he does, but his contributions cannot be denied
by boolemaster on Sep 5, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d be happy to deny them. He provided a spark for a couple of weeks in July in which he hit about .500, but is a good part of why the Giants offense has struggled so badly of late.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not over Lewis or Rowand.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Bowker or Schierholtz.
(unless you’re talking about center field, exclusively)
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or Torres, for that matter.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
don’t you all see how flawed this corps of OF’s is? In many respects you have to ride the hot streaks. I am not a Bochy apologist (I really hope he doesn’t come back next year, even though I think it’s a foregone conclusion that he will), but he’s trying to catch lightning in a bottle because night in night out our lineup is absolutely pathetic
by boolemaster on Sep 5, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you can’t say he’s “riding hot streaks” anymore when Velez has continued to play every day after coming back to Earth and hitting like, well, Eugenio Velez. (And he continues to refuse to play Lewis even though you could argue that he’s been on a hot streak of late.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
jp what are velez numbers so far for the trip?
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A 6 game sample size is irrelevant wrt evaluating a player’s talent.
by Steve on Sep 5, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how can they be irrelevant when someone makes the statement that he’s done nothing since the period when he was first called up? He’s 5 for 12 in his last three games with a double, 2 triples and a homerun. As for the defense, while he’s not good, your heart is not in your mouth when he gets under a routine flyball as it is when it’s hit to Lewis. You simply cannot play someone who can’t catch an ordinary flyball.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 5, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the reason for Velez starting now is the hot streak he was on. It was a pretty good 3 week stretch. Boche seems to be overplaying that card, but its hard to blame him with the giants offense.
Its obvious that KFred has done something that has caused the coaches(namely Boche) to put him in the proverbial “doghouse.”
"...you overvalue Giants prospects and probably don’t know much about prospects to begin with."
by jayreed13 on Sep 5, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Velez’s hot streak is more or less over. He hit .273/.307/.405 in August. Why are they still clinging to 2 weeks of good performance by Velez in July?
It is quite easy to blame him for giving a guy who has come back to earth after an initial hot streak after being called up 27 starts in August, while giving the other guy (who hit .412/.524/.588 in August) 8 starts.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He and Uribe (and Freddie ha ha ha) are the only ones squaring up the ball right now.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why is he hitting so poorly?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It just shows how bad our offense is that we can have a post with all kinds of arguments about which mediocre players should be getting the ABs.
Incidentally, I think KFred is also very unpopular with the pitching staff. His errors are probably exaggerated a bit, but the errors were at pretty noticeable times that kept a guy on the mound for more pitches. If pitchers lose confidence in your defense, its hard to gain it back.
I also don’t think this is necessarily KFred vs Velez. Boche has tried everyone in the org. other than KFred out there.
"...you overvalue Giants prospects and probably don’t know much about prospects to begin with."
by jayreed13 on Sep 5, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
First off, that KFred nickname remains really stupid
And I don’t know what you mean by “everyone in the org” out there but Fred. It’s basically gone like this:
Fred starts the year as the starter and plays well. Starts slumping near the end of May and all of a sudden, all of his mistakes are magnified. Eventually is benched after an 0-19 stretch.
Benched for… a combination of Winn, Torres and Schierholtz. Schierholtz hits well, it looks like a good move. But then he and Torres get injured and it becomes…
Velez and Winn every day. And it’s pretty much remained like that since.
(Bowker got like a week and a half in there but I don’t think it really counts for much.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slumping near the end of May my ass
Through the last day of May, Lewis was hitting 276/.376/.423. Then he lost the job. Then he started slumping. NOT the other way around. That’s what’s so bizarre about this whole thing, and why Lewis is pissed – the job was taken way from him when he was still hitting well, even better than he did last year.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The job was basically taken away from him because he had an 0-19 slump and the KNBR crowd and the media decided to make him into a scapegoat for just about everything.
Also, he didn’t turn into an AGGRESSIVE POWER HITTER.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The slump came after that, I think, I can’t find on his game logs.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at his logs, I thought he’d gone into the slump right after the WSN series in June, but I can’t find it. His playing time pretty much dropped right after that road trip though.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=lewisfr02&t=b&year=2009&share=3.62#239-278-sum:batting_gamelogs
118 plate appearances -— .185/.254/.333 OPS.588
by khenderson on Sep 5, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
<a href=“http:// ”http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=lewisfr02&t=b&year=2009&share=3.62#239-278-sum:batting_gamelogs" target="_blank">http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=lewisfr02&t=b&year=2009&share=3.62#239-278-sum:batting_gamelogs" target="new">
by khenderson on Sep 5, 2009 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See I think that the Bowker call-up does count. It kinda proves the point about giving up too early. (which I agree) There have been 4 other starting LFs than “Fred”. Winn( this is basically nate in RF), Torres, Bowker, and now Velez. If we had any other OFs with MLB experience I think that they would have been given a shot too. When they try to give 4 other guys your spot, and your just as good(or mediocre) as they are, you’ve pissed someone off.
As for KFred… Say it aloud, its funny. You don’t have to be a hater to think its funny.
"...you overvalue Giants prospects and probably don’t know much about prospects to begin with."
by jayreed13 on Sep 5, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I’ve hated the nickname since it first showed up and I continue to do so. It was so nice that it had disappeared, except for ironic use for awhile.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(Is it supposed to be like K-Rod?)
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
by tk on Sep 5, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s supposed to be like K-Fed (Britney’s ex-husband, ugh.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh christ.
I’m kind of glad I didn’t know that.
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
by tk on Sep 5, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
KFred Oops, I meant K Fed. Douchebaggery at its finest, but cute puppy
by m34josh on Sep 6, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you seen him lately?
Dude must weigh like 350 lbs.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 6, 2009 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya, he is gross. Definitely eating well off all that alimony money. Some site posted a picture of him recently in a pool with his kids and he is massive. I would look it up and post it, but I just ate and that might end badly
by m34josh on Sep 6, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
JPon
If someone called Bengie Molina a fat piece of shit you wouldn’t say a word. However you object to the use of the nickname “KFred?” You protect Freddie Lewis like a mother bear protects her cubs. Freddie Lewis is a whiny garbage player who can’t catch or hit with a man on base if his life depended on it. He’s doing the Giants’ a favor with his complaining, because it makes it easier for them to DFA his ass as soon as possible.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 5, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
you are an idiot
seriously.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Sep 5, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, no he is not.
He’s been here longer than you, said more smart things than you have, and isn’t just a flamethrower. I don’t always agree with rxmeister, and even less often love the exact way he phrases things. But I will take his stuff every single time over “you are an idiot, seriously,” which is both asinine and inane.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 5, 2009 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks, mayor
but it doesn’t bother me. When you call yourself “a dick” you can’t help but be one.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 5, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respect that, and I understand that insults that internet nobodies throw around doesn't affect you.
Still, I think it’s important for people to object to certain forms of “expression” for the good of the community as much as for defending the insulted individual. I like this community a whole lot, and haven’t liked seeing (what I perceive as) a retrogression into increasing incivility.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 5, 2009 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are reading too much into it. Ahem.
by FreshStart on Sep 5, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And with all due respect Mayor
I’m tired of arguing this, especially in the face of increasing stupidity. Being a certain point, logic just doesn’t matter – there have been multiple, detailed, analytical posts here (by me in fact) explaining this, but at a certain juncture, ignorance of factual data is just that. I’m particularly tired of someone telling me they’ve been around longer than me primarily 1) when its a stupid arguement and 2) when its not true. I’ve been posting here since the Waiting for Boof days.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Sep 5, 2009 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're tired of arguing it, then don't. It's pretty easy NOT to post something insulting.
I apologize for the factual error that you have posted here less time than rxmeister. It wasn’t, however, an argument I was advancing (we must respect our elders, blah blah), as I agree that would be stupid. I was making the point that he’s not some flamey noob troll, and doesn’t deserve to be spoken to that way.
If something gets beyond the point of reason, just let it go. Consider not sinking into namecalling, because then, frankly, YOU look like the idiot, not the object of your comment.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 6, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aadik has been around longer all four of us.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 6, 2009 5:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, that certainly gives him the right to call people idiots and say their arguments are “stupid” without providing his own data then. I actually think his posts are excellent, and his analysis of Bengie Molina’s year was superb, but sometimes stats aren’t everything and you can’t reject the non stats argument as idiotic. The proof of that pudding is that after he proves Molina is the worst cleanup hitter in the world, Bengie hits three game winning homeruns in the next couple of weeks. This forum is a lot better place to be when people are expressing their opinions and showing respect for the opinions of others even if inside they’re thinking the guy’s an idiot.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 6, 2009 6:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. I just wanted to point out the minor point.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 6, 2009 6:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie Molina, this season, is a lot closer to being a fat piece of shit than Fred is to being “~KFred”.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’ve made a lot of good arguments, but that isn’t one of them. The Giants have a guy that Ks alot + his name is Fred = KFred. Lighten up, its funny. There are plenty worse nicknames out there that aren’t funny at all
And its not going to go away while he strikes out 25-30% of the time
by m34josh on Sep 6, 2009 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I like “The Problem” but I think nicknaming someone after Kevin Federline is one of the meanest things you can do to a guy.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 6, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
KFed got his 15 minutes of fame and made us all laugh. I don’t see how taking his nickname and playing into someone elses is mean. Could be worse, could be something like penitentiary face or some of the older Giants wacky nicknames
by m34josh on Sep 6, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
KFred
makes me think pronounce the dude’s name Kevin Frederline.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 6, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luckily he is nearly forgotten, so I don’t think you’ll have to pronounce the dudes name ever again, lol
by m34josh on Sep 6, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.273/.307/.405?
Heck that’s virtually Schiertholtz’ entire season, and they’re still clinging to 2 weeks of good performance in June with him.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Sep 5, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? Fred looks completely lost in the OF. He runs terrible routes, drops a ridiculous number of catchable flyballs and NEVER admits that he made a mistake.
by boolemaster on Sep 5, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He really doesn’t drop nearly as many catchable flyballs as you think.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as much as i like Fred, my lasting image of him will be watching him get to a ball and then watching it go in and out of his glove only to have him later say he lost it in the lights
by boolemaster on Sep 5, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, well, it’s been well established that the people who hate Fred have memories that blow up every mistake he makes and ignore every good thing he does.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there’s a lot of that going around this site.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am NOT a fred hater by any means. i completely agreed with bochy the other night when he said that he PH fred over TI because he knew he wouldn’t swing at the slider. but, it cannot be denied that he has had a number of misadventures in the OF
by boolemaster on Sep 5, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He does but if you listened to the Fred haters, you would think he hadn’t made a single catch out there all year or that all of his CLANK moments are on fly balls hit two steps to his left.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Velez has just as many adventures. Take last night’s Lindenesque route to a routine line drive, with a dropped foul ball as an encore.
by Steve on Sep 5, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he saved the game today with his eighth inning play on Fielder’s grounder. Remind me of the time Lewis made a great game saving play.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 5, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It certainly seems like more than any “non-alex sanchez” major league outfielder
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, tearing up Scottsdale, and has been alive long enough to see the Warriors make the playoffs once.
by BrianBokake on Sep 7, 2009 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
but as I stated previously Velez has defensive versatility which saves Bochy some from late inning lineup juggling.
My ideal OF is Bowker/Velez/Nate.
My next favorite OF is Lewis/Velez/Nate.
You can surmise who my least favorite OF guy is.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really would rather play Velez over Aaron Rowand?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
I’m going for runz and pray for the pitchers to rack 21 Ks.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Velez is a much worse hitter than Rowand
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't K as often...
and better speed if he feels like stealing.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he makes a lot more outs than Rowand, and he’s a terrible base runner for all that speed.
Rowand can be frustrating to watch, but he’s one of this team’s better hitters.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hokysmksbw's criteria for evaluating hitters
- Strikeouts
- Speed
- Ability to play more than position
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
R+RBI-HR
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So did I, so did most people here. If you think Aaron Rowand is worse option at centerfield than Eugenio Velez you’ll need a more powerful explanation than that.
Some sort of head trauma, or you spent your formative years watching cricket or something?
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bill James grew up in the 50’s.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the ability to be Edgar Renteria
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was good when he was a Cardinal!
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is just wrong.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, you’re going to hope every pitcher does something that’s never been done before.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miracles do happen.
I saw the Virgin Mary on tree bark.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. That’s just…wow.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate Scott as much as the next guy but really?!
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rowand is 5-23 since 8/26 and that's a HOT STREAK...
…since he only K’d 4 times in that stretch, meaning he’s actually making contact.
Velez is 9-31 during that stretch with 9 Ks, so nyahhh!
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m trying to think of a time since you started posting here that you actually made a good point on anything.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Edgar Renteria is money down the stretch, nerdess!
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.063/.118/.063 so far in September nerds!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scored run in 3-2 victory.
And did it with a BB which is as good as a single if no one was on base.
Boiled in your own oil OBPers!
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sandoval .091 in September
Must be panda mating season.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol strawman
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
She said a good point
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know, it’s really amazing. He’s one of the most useless posters we’ve ever had. I mean, GRM, get a lot of crap, and he can be annoying as hell, but he still makes a good point once in a while, and definitely puts some thought and research into his comments. And he doesn’t try to hurt us with mean mean words.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could have sworn GRM called me stupid once.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Sep 5, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was probably ignorant
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hurts just as much.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Sep 5, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GRM is definitely a douche, I think Cooky was just saying that he has been known to make a decent point once in awhile.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I missed the thing about mean words at the end.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need him though
Keeps the groupthink in check
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He does often call people out on making stupid blanket statements that have no basis in reality (well, at least that one time with Bob Howry and inherited runners.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GRM is an idiot.
And Howry blows, the statement had plenty of basis in reality. He merely took an isolated phrase in an entire paragraph and blew it up.
I’ll give Howry credit though, recently he’s done a good job bailing out other relievers. However, up until recently, he was only being used in a mop up role because of his inability to get runners out. I still wouldn’t lean on him in a one run game with runners in scoring position.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
by Tellias on Sep 5, 2009 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GRM did basically call me stupid once and I was actually honored.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
by SFGuy on Sep 5, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pfah!
I know baseball, you know calculators.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know neither
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do read the Game Day threads.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You and GRM should start a club.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you come here
for no other reason than to insult people.
Super.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is great.
"Trust me: If I’m feeling lousy at the plate like that, I’m not just going to walk up there with bases loaded and get a hit because I’m some great clutch hitter." - Mr. F!
comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Sep 5, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then leave and go find people worth talking to.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 5, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don’t know anything about anyone here, and you don’t know jack about baseball. You’re the one that thinks breaking pitches put less stress on the arm than fastballs and you think that Eugenio Velez is better centerfielder than Aaron Rowand. You think people are intimidated by your fake-macho horseshit rather than finding it hilarious.
I bet you have played baseball, but I bet you were one of the ones who never learned anything from what they were doing.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't state Velez was a BETTER CF.
He’s only my preferred CF.
Winn plays a better LF than either Velez or Lewis, but who still wants to see that?
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But there is honestly no reason – nerd wise or old school baseball mind wise to prefer Velez to Rowand.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Velez looks like Abe Lincoln.
Abe Lincoln is on the penny.
If you see a penny and pick it up, all the day you’ll have good luck.
Rowand hasn’t even got that going for him.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are a parady; a characature
And I think you are doing it on purpose.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt about it.
But, for a teacher, you don’t spell very well. Unless you are joking?
by FreshStart on Sep 5, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I rarely check spelling in forums such as this
No, I was not joking. I caught parody right after I posted and I knew that characature was likely spelled wrong, as well. I still don’t know what the correct spelling of characature is. I’m too lazy to look it up at the moment.
However, my spelling mistakes are few and far between, so I see no basis for your statement.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I figured there must be an i in there.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 6, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer that better players play over worse players.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but boy is he getting a lot of attention, just what someone who posts a lot of inflammatory remarks is looking for…
by Merope on Sep 5, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well put
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Sep 5, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOU ARE ALL FAT AND GEEKY
AND YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
by tk on Sep 5, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know I’ve said this to you at least 3 or 4 times before,but, YOU ARE SO LAME
Saying WE are all nerds is ridiculous. You name-dropping players you watched when you were a boy does not make you any more knowledgeable than the next guy.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Sep 5, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all seriousness, what you know about baseball is pretty elementary.
It’s like you are a Tim McCarver doppelganger.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 5, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You see
That’s the funniest thing. A few weeks ago, you actually tried to argue to me that throwing a lot of breaking pitches and splitters would help Valdez improve his stamina, because those pitches aren’t as fast as his fastball.
That showed such a basic lack of understanding of how baseball is played, that I’m really not sure how you can claim you know more baseball than anyone here.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot to finish that argument.
Anyways, they improve stamina (inning-wise) by reducing the number of foul balls — the fastball being the easiest to foul off. Since Valdez is fastball dependent, the changeup or forkball/splitter once per at bat will increase the number of swing-thru Ks and early count ground balls. To the batter, both changeups and splitters look similar to the fastball, so when you have a dude throwing 96+, they are already inclined to swing at it before getting a good look at the location.
Baseball is not about numbers, so much as it is about messing with the heads of your opponent.
No stat sheet keeps track of stolen signs, for example.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTF!???
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Sep 5, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 5, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ROFL
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 5, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
quick
Someone alert the Giants.
IF MERKIN VALDEZ HAD AN EFFECTIVE CHANGE-UP HE WOULD BE A BETTER PITCHER.
I know I’m shocked. But I don’t watch baseball ever.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lirl
WHY HAS NO ONE TOLD MERKIN VALDEZ TO DEVELOP A GOOD OFFSPEED PITCH BEFORE NOW
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody wants to teach the splitter anymore...
…since it’s accused of shortening careers.
But if you already suck, why not go for that 5 years of an above average MLB.
Darn agents.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The changeup is pretty widespread, though
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it really? I’ve heard it said about sliders and curves but I don’t know that splitters are one of the pitches that’s often accused of causing arm injuries.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
some people thought that it was causing elbow injuries.
A lot of guys still throw splitters, just not as many as when Roger Craig was still coaching.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its my understanding that the arm action on a splitter is the same as a fastball, the only difference being the grip. So long as a pitcher’s mechanics are sound, the arm should be fine.
However, I’ve also heard about possible elbow injuries related to splitters but I don’t think there is any documentation supporting that yet.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
by Tellias on Sep 5, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hello? Timmy’s Change is a split finger grip. He developed it in the majors.
"This season is expecting a $10,000 bonus, actually getting $50,000 but then accidentally setting $25,000 of that on fire." - AngelWillSaveUs
by scout6 on Sep 6, 2009 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They also increase the numbers of balls, which increases pitch counts. And they’re harder to throw. And if they cause less contact, then it’s impossible that they also cause more early count outs.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if you can’t throw the fastball for strikes and the hitters aren’t the fastball hacker types — oh, wait, this is the 21st Century — 90% of dudes hack.
The splitter is not a K pitch. It’s a groundball inducer in a hitter’s count (1-0, 1-1, 2-0, 2-1).
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hokysmksbw in a nutshell
Since Valdez is fastball dependent, the changeup or forkball/splitter once per at bat will increase the number of swing-thru Ks
One comment later
The splitter is not a K pitch. It’s a groundball inducer in a hitter’s count.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those two aren’t mutually exclusive. An off-speed pitch can screw up a hitter’s timing and make it harder to sit on fastball
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
by Goofus on Sep 6, 2009 2:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that’s irrelevant. Right now, hitters foul Valdez’s fastballs off. In order to turn those fouls into balls in play, you’d need to “help” the hitters’ timing (because putting the ball in play almost always means making better contact than fouling it off). In order to turn the foul balls into swings and misses, you’d need to hurt the hitters’ timing.
These two things are mutely exclusive.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 6, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would he want to help hitters put the ball in play?
I think you missed my point entirely. Either you’re not getting my point or I’m not getting yours.
I said the two are not mutually exclusive and you argue that they’re mutely exclusive, whatever that means.
Here’s my point:
Hitters are sitting on Valdez FB and either hitting it or fouling it off. If Valdez had a good offspeed pitch, it would be harder for them to sit dead red and he would get more swing-through Ks.
Therefore, the previous comment that even it’s not a swing-through pitch, an off-speed pitch could could result in more swing-through Ks is accurate.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
by Goofus on Sep 6, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The changeup is the swing-thru.
Tsk-tsk, cherry-picker.
Since Valdez is fastball dependent, the changeup or forkball/splitter once per at bat will increase the number of swing-thru Ks and early count ground balls.
The splitter is for the early count grounders.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 6, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Or"
Means that the two (change up and splitter) are interchangeable. If that’s not what you meant, you shouldn’t have written it. You can’t blame anyone for assuming that you mean what you say.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 7, 2009 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, just so you know
The splitter is a strikeout pitch. Most pitchers (like Lincecum) rarely throw their splitter in the strike zone, but rather below the strike zone, hoping the hitters chase it and miss. Lincecum and Haren are probably the best examples of pitchers who get a ton of their swing-throughs on the splitter.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 7, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also Roger Clemens, who got about 3000 of his 4600 Ks off Mr. Splittee.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Sep 7, 2009 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curt Schilling too.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 7, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lincecum doesn't throw a "real" splitter
By that I mean a Roger Craig splitter, though he was not the inventor. Craig’s was less fork-ballish and meant to induce grounders. Unlike the forkball, you could throw Craig’s splitter for a called strike.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 7, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Dan Haren never strikes anybody out with a splitter.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome. Thanks for that
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Sep 5, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. This is incredible.
Stats measure results. Results are real.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, SOME stats measure results. Others are actually arguments (propositions, theses) that certain components matter in such-and-such proportions...
… but that’s a whole other discussion NOT INVITED HERE.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 5, 2009 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, right. I was being simplistic because we’re mainly talking about OBP and OBP measures a result.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could say
That all baseball stats are propositions, in one way or another.
Take AVG for example – sure, you can say that it just measures hits per at bats. But you need to dig in deeper – what’s an at bat? According to the rule book, it’s the “number of times batted, except that no time at bat shall be charged when a player: (1) hits a sacrifice bunt or sacrifice fly; (2) is awarded first base on four called balls; (3) is hit by a pitched ball; or (4) is awarded first base because of interference or obstruction”. Well, why is it defined this way? If a batter is at bat, and draws a walk, why is it not an “at bat”? Surely it has to do with what the baseball “groupthink” thought about what the hitter’s objective is when he’s at bat, or something similar.
Let’s say you say someone is 3 for 10 over the last two days. Technically, you’re just measuring results. But not really – by defining the 3 as “hits”, and the 10 as “AB’s”, you’re already letting your opinions interfere with your attempt to measure results.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 6, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fact, I DO say that BA is an argument.
That is exactly my point. The definition of the denominator is an argument that such-and-such should count as an “at bat” and that the numerator should only be hits. The BA is an argument that this is the best way to measure offensive effectiveness, and it is an argument that held sway for over 100 years AND is still dominant in most quarters of fan/MSM world. It is an argument that we sophisticates mostly reject now…
… and therein lies my caution to everyone who throws around the advanced stats like they are irrefutable, inarguable capital-T Truth. Go ahead, make the argument, it’s interesting and revealing stuff… but it’s still just an argument. Anyway, I really don’t want to get into that here. I’m glad you got my point.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 6, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No argument here
I agree. I’m just wondering, when you say that “some stats measure results”, which stats are you referring to? Doesn’t have to be baseball-related.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 7, 2009 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry we’re holding you down and forcing you to post here.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Sep 5, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GRM is just as bad with ad hominems, but he knows more about baseball than this guy.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait what?
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Fred isn’t the team player he needs to be and Velez is.
As I posted in another thread, this isn’t the first time we’ve heard about Fred’s “attitude problem.”
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, it makes sense to bench a guy with a .360 OBP for a guy with a .315 OBP on a team that can’t get anyone on base or score runs because he has an “attitude problem”, which has basically manifested as, “The guy isn’t happy he’s become a scapegoat for everything that’s gone wrong with the 2009 San Francisco Giants”?
He said he comes to work every day smiling and doing his best in his limited role (and, yes, he has hit very well as a pinch hitter so far, so it’s not like he’s dogging it).
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
while Velez OTOH has an aptitude problem
by Merope on Sep 5, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lulz. Well played, Merope. Well played, indeed.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t agree with the way the team has handled many of its mediorcre prospects, Frandsen included, but you’d have to be a pretty big idiot to fail to understand that bitching about it in the media is NOT GOING TO GET YOU MORE PT.
Freddie, IMO, doesn’t come to play with a smile, he pouts and can’t take criticism. I guess that means something to the manager/FO.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In your opinion, he doesn’t come to play with a smile? How do you know that? Do you have a special video feed of the dugout?
All we have to go off is how he’s done since being unceremoniously benched and he’s played quite well. And yet still can’t buy more than a start a week on a team that is the worst non-Petco offense in baseball.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey JP, it the GH here, you don’t need to get all snarky. You know I’m not a Lewis basher.
And but so, i don’t “know” it. i am speculating about it since we’re trying to figure out what’s going on in our clearly flawed FO.
In the time I’ve spent watching the Giants this year Geno looks happier and like he’s having more fun than Lewis. Not that that should matter a ton, but it does appear that the mgmt has had problems with FLew’s attitude. Both previously and currently.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think what’s going on in our FO is basically that they don’t understand the value of OBP, they put way too much weight on Fred’s strikeout tendencies and they overreact far too much to hot streaks, slumps and slow starts from young players (though they apparently don’t care if Velez slumps. It’s so weird that, so far, Velez is proving to be this exception to the VETERANZ RULE ROOKIES DROOL rule.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(I mean, other than Pablo, of course, but you'd have to be sub-human to bench him)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
I think the only reason why they stuck with Pablo through his early struggles this year was the fact that he hit .340 during his call up last year.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
if pablo had struggled he most definitely would have been benched. and that explains the problem with the treatment of all of our young players.
by boolemaster on Sep 5, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. so and what part of that is velez’ fault?
The whole VELEZ IS STARTING OVER LEWIS meme is a bit of a tempest in a teapot, no?
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I’m not really mad at Velez, more the front office for so bizarrely falling in love with him this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
then complete my love and stop hating on velez.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t want to
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What? Who’s blaming Velez? Did Lewis mention him?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
jponry is often complaining about Velez playing over Flew.
I’m not taking sides, just reporting.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but it’s more about the decision than about Velez. I like Velez as a 5th OF/emergency infielder. I do not like him as an everyday starter in LF.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not blaming Velez, that’s blaming Bochy. The Gene Hackman is saying that it’s not Velez’s “fault” that the FO makes mistakes, which is just random. It’s like saying that it’s not Molina’s fault that he’s a terrible hitter, therefore we should all be happy with him hitting 4th and with Posey never getting an AB.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that both Frandsen and Lewis understood that their comments to the media wouldn’t get them more playing time.
I believe (with no real proof) that both figured they wouldn’t get a fair chance here, so they might as well complain about it.
It might not be smart, but I can understand it.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s no surprise that players gripe about playing time. the giants lack a consistent approach with their young players and that is why everyone is frustrated (fan and players)
by boolemaster on Sep 5, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
Exactly this.
Both are trying to speed up their exit from the organization and to salvage whatever might be left of their professional careers.
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
by Kitspool on Sep 5, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Complaining publically worked for Steve Finley and Molina
Why wouldn’t it work for Frandsen and Lewis?
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 5, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two less world series rings? 7 less gold gloves? Just guessin :-)
by m34josh on Sep 6, 2009 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So they bribed the manager with precious metals and jewelry?
Now that’s veteran savvy at work.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 6, 2009 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the annoying thing. People say he shouldn’t complain because he’s new. I don’t get that. If anything, it’s the players who are making millions of dollars and have enjoyed a successful career who should shut up. Guys who are making the league minimum and have absolutely no job security have much better reasons to complain about reduced playing time.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 6, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats like saying the new guy at your job should be allowed to complain about not getting the good hours and tasks, even though the veterans know what they are doing and have past success at doing it
And Fred Lewis has made over a million dollars in his career and is still in his 20s, so making the league minimum ain’t so bad
by m34josh on Sep 6, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well there's your problem
You’re comparing baseball and a normal job.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 6, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if the new guy
is just as good or better than the guy getting the good hours and tasks, then I see no reason why there shouldn’t be complaints.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 6, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boss hires a new guy
First he hands him a small role. But he works hard and proves more productive than some of the veteran workers who have much better jobs. So the boss promotes him. New guy is happy, and continues to be as productive as he used to.
Then, suddenly, the boss demotes him. Not because new guy was doing a bad job – he’s doing the same things he’s always done. And not because there’s someone who really deserves new guy’s job – it’s not like an impressive, veteran worker was given new guy’s job – the boss just tries a few different people for the job, non of which have as good a track record as new guy. The new guy asks the boss why he was demoted, but the boss won’t tell him. The new guy tells the boss that he wants to leave, and the boss doesn’t even bother to respond.
Would you not be pissed if you were new guy? Wouldn’t you expect him to complain?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 7, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, did you read the article? He’s not trying to get more playing time, he just wants to leave. Can you blame him?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
He wants to leave SF to ride the bench for another team, is what you’re arguing?
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would that be so bizarre?
He feels he hasn’t been treated very well here (I don’t blame him). Even if he rides the bench somewhere else, that’s better than riding the bench for the organization that never gave you a fair shot.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wants to leave the team because he thinks he deserves more playing time, and that he could get it on another team. How is that weird?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude you just said he didn’t want to leave for more playing time.
I don’t give a shit why he wants to leave. you don’t say shit like this during a playoff run.
He’s a mediocre AAAA player bitching about getting blocked by another AAAA player on a scrappy team built out of AAAA players and he’s bitching about it when his team needs his loyalty most.
clubhouse cancer
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, no
I said he’s not trying to get more playing by doing this interview. He isn’t. He simply wants to leave, because he thinks he can get more playing time.
Everybody has acknowledged that he shouldn’t have said that know, but that doesn’t mean he’s not right.
The last paragraph is asinine.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right cookyman… and I’m asinine.
Nice discussing issues with you, man. Remind me never to do it again.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants don’t need Lewis’s loyalty. It’s not a lack of loyalty from Fred Lewis that will probably keep them out of the playoffs.
Why exactly should a player show loyalty to an organization that hasn’t treated him well? Just because they are in a playoff run? they don’t use Lewis much, anyway. Why would his loyalty matter in the slightest?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m arguing that a player’s attitude matters. And that Fred has a shitty attitude.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matters how? To whom?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
matters to the other players, matters to himself.
matters to me. probably other fans too.
it’s hard to be negative and achieve positive results.
are you really arguing that a young player like lewis should be able to say whatever he wants to the media without fear of reprisal?
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somebody please post the gif of Kent and Bonds fighting in the dugout from 2002.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 5, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s be real. It only matters to fans. Bengie has been a quote machine as of late, but he’s still rolling along fine.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Sep 5, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does this matter to the other players? I bet Bowker and Schierholtz agree. I bet Molina and Winn and Rowand and Renteria don’t care because their spots are secure no matter how much they suck.
Seriously, why would they care if Lewis complains about his playing time?
And, no offense, who cares if it matters to you or any other fan?
I know that it matters not a lick what I think should be going on with the Giants organization.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
None of these guys should be starting. Not a single one. Not even Lewis. Lewis takes pitches which is nice, but if you’re a corner OF’er who has no power, and has suspect defense (yes OMGZ RANGE!) and you’re not even all that much of a threat to steal because you might reinjure your bunyons, than you really aren’t that good. We’re literally complaining about crap not being started over crap. It’s all crap.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But when one piece of crap is clearly better than the other piece of crap and you’re on a team that’s desperate to score more runs… shouldn’t you start the better piece of crap?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s not clearly better than anyone.
ALL THE GIANTS OUTFIELDERS HAVE GLARING FLAWS.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred Lewis: 104 career OPS+ in 1026 major league AB
Eugenio Velez: 84 career OPS+ in 504 major league AB
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what?
Rowand is 103 career OPS + in 3639 AB
Winn is 100 career OPS +
OMG FRED IZ TEH BEZT!
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rowand and WInn used to be better players. Velez and Lewis almost exactly the same age.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell do Rowand and Winn have to do with anything? I don’t think the LF options are between Rowand, Winn, Lewis and Velez.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Rowand is still putting up that line (101 OPS+ this year).
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, Fred is clearly better than Velez.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s see.
Suspect D? Check.
No real power for a corner OF? Check.
Has speed but sucks at stealing bases successfully? Check.
Has no business starting for a good team? Check.
Again they are both crap. Just one crap know’s how to hit a bit better.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, man, this team has no problem with hitting, so why bother playing the guy who hits better.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really think that would make a difference?
Why don’t we just find a better player. Period.
The reality is neither one has any business being a starting outfielder in the major leagues.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not. But those are the options RIGHT NOW
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
And Fred is still the better hitter this year.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we CAN’T find a better player with four weeks left in the season – unless they finally decide to give Bowker a shot. We have to make do with what we have. And of what we have, Lewis is the better option over Velez. Period.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO SHIT! But what have all my posts been about? The Giants outfield being made up of completely mediocre players. This had nothing to do with what we should do for the rest of the year. This original topic is about Lewis wanting out. And I say big deal, he has no long term value here anyway. He’s a bench player on any decent team anyway.
It’s almost no use crying about Fred Lewis not playing when Bochy continues to make lineups full of failure every day. With Molina hitting cleanup. Winn starting vs LHP. Renteria starting every day over Uribe. Nate Schierholtz batting 5th when he really isn’t that good.
This team overachieved and that’s nice, but they have nobody outside of Pablo who really has any business being a regular player. Rowand works because he plays CF, but if he played a corner he would ideally have to replaced.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, the Giants outfield is mediocre offensively but their defense has been a big part of the reason why our pitching staff has been so good this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure the defense has been good. But we get poor offensive contributions from the outfield. Only Rowand is passable because he plays CF.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but velez gets none of that credit, correct?
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm… you’re kinda hurting your own argument here lol.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Sep 5, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s in the same boat as Lewis – looks awful out there but is probably above average on the strength of speed.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Velez has improved his OF defense by a lot by my eyes.
Probably will never be pretty out there, but I could see him consistently providing good corner defense.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just trying to point out that velez’s reputation is CLANK not, as it ought to be, that he’s pretty average…. and that IF the giants really do have the best OF defense, that velez should probably get some credit for that, but generally doesn’t.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he should get more credit for his improvement, but I feel like his problems on the infield make us expect the next disaster to be right around the corner.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well said.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One piece of crap can take a walk, the other cant
Pretty much the main difference
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
one is a pouty bitch, the other isn’t.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
kinda…
jah.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda wish you’d stop saying this over and over again.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, even you admit that one’s better than the other. What’s the problem?
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I mean, obviously long-term, neither is a great option for anything other than 4th OF (in an ideal world.)
But of the options we have RIGHT NOW, there are a couple that are clearly better than Velez (Bowker and Lewis) and yet neither seem to have any shot at getting more than a handful of ABs down the stretch at the moment. If the Giants want to make the playoffs, they’re going to have to maximize their limited resources and playing Velez every day and hitting him leadoff does not qualify.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is exactly what I meant! You think I want Velez playing every day???! LOL!
Torres is a much better option, especially vs LHP.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you’re arguing as though we’re talking about giving Lewis the LF job for the next five years, when all anyone is talking about is the next FIVE WEEKS.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re the one arguing that. I was arguing that the Giants entire outfield needs to replaced. And I wasn’t talking about the next 5 weeks. The next 5 weeks are inconsequential because we’re stuck with all of these losers for the time being and we’re stuck with Bochy trotting out awful lineups for the next 5 weeks.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I misunderstood you then.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would die
to have the Giants give Bowker the same chance they are currently giving Velez.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
THIS A GAZILLION DIFFERNT WAYS
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec’d so hard.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 5, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The part about Randy Winn getting endless opportunities frustrates me the most
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Sep 5, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too, especially against lefties. Right-handed Randy Winn is, no contest, by far, the worst-hitting regular in the majors. It’s not even close.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be surprised if they didn’t have a psychologist on staff for the players, coaches.etc… They have them for collegiate sports as well.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Sep 5, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you with on almost everything..
Well, you talk the whole truth in your whole article about Freddie, but Velez is amazing you have to give him props for what he has done since joining the team. On the other hand Randy Winn just plain stinks and he is getting a lot of money for what he is doing, Fred is not. If Fred was in Randy’s spot he post the same if not better numbers at the least is what I’m saying here though. I would like him to play LF for the Giants since he is a really good player. The best thing for the outfield to be to take out Winn put Lewis there, take out rowand and put Nate there, but in right field because of his great arm and how dominant he is in right, and finally put Velez in CF even if he is bad at fielding he is a great hitter and can do so much more than Rowand is doing with the money he is earning. As for Frandsen and Bowker I’m sorry they’re great players in the minors, but suck in the majors might as well trade them away for some really good veteran.
by waffles on Sep 6, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah.
Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.
by jasomack on Sep 8, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Fred, but this is not the time. I can’t believe that this portrays him in a positive light to other GMs let alone Sabes.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 5, 2009 8:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You are mostly correct but i have to belive what Sabean thinks of him is already set and there is not a darn thing he can do to improve it.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Sep 5, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree… I just don’t think it’s the best way for Lewis to introduce himself to other GMs.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Sep 5, 2009 9:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This needs jponry and a K-Fred hater to turn into a 1000 post fanshot
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 9:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It looks like they’re on it…
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
by tk on Sep 5, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just what I wanted
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s right, of course, but this isn’t really the right time to say it.
I’m kind of sad this is how his time on the Giants is going to end – hitting about as well as he did when he was given the starting LF job to start the year, but buried on the bench behind players who aren’t hitting any better than he is right now. Both he and Schierholtz have seen their playing time turn completely to nil after going into slumps, while, as Cookyman already said, Winn continues to trot out there day after day while hitting like shit. It’s ridiculous and the team sits around wondering why they can’t score any runs…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This has always been a problem with this organization
But it’s reached epic levels with Bochy. The problem is that, unlike San Diego, the Giants management actually approves of Bochy’s veteran lust.
The fact that this team has such a huge double standard in regards to position players (it doesn’t really exist for pitchers, for whatever reason) means that it’s going to be difficult for this organization to win with this management. I believe that it was this exact mind-set that held the team back during the Bonds years.
And now it’s going to hold the team back during the Lincecum years, as well.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I already said in hairball’s fanpost that I’m pretty sure we’re going to see the exact same lineup we’re trotting out right now against next year, only with Sanchez at 2B and maybe Schierholtz over Winn in RF.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sadly, i agree with you. this is the problem when you have a shitload of marginal players on your team. it’s incredibly difficult to choose one over the other on any given night.
by boolemaster on Sep 5, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The trouble is that I think Bochy/the front office look at this lineup of marginal players and think, “Wow, this is a great lineup, it should be scoring more runs!”
Velez – great player! Sparkplug! He gets the offense going!
Renteria – great player! He can control the bat and he’s got experience!
Sandoval – great player! ok we can agree with that
Molina – great player! clutch! heart of the team! big bat in the middle of the lineup!
Winn – great player! classy! veteran presence!
Rowand – great player! gritty! plays his heart out!
Sanchez – great player once he’s healthy! He’s got bat control and he hits .300!
Uribe – great player! he was on the 2005 white sox!
Garkokawa – …eh.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So scary. the only way to restructure this offense is to jettison the vets.
by boolemaster on Sep 5, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is that if you give Molina’s ABs to Buster, get a full season of Sanchez and give Winn’s ABs to Bowker, you might have the beginnings of a competent offense but I have no faith in the Giants to actually do those things.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i really feel the same way. signing a decent RH hitter to occasionally spell Bowker/Nate against LHP would be great too.
by boolemaster on Sep 5, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jonny Gomes would be nice if he wasn’t so horrible in the field.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I think we’ll be replacing Bengie with Buster. And I’d like to hope that we might make a run at a corner bat, but realistically, you’re probably right.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Sep 5, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hold your clubhouse together Bruce, fuck. CANT PLAY THE KIDS IT WILL MESS UP THE CHEMISTRY. Chemistry is pretty fucked as it is.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 10:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll just post this here
Today’s line-up
Velez 2B
Winn LF
Sandoval 3B
Molina C
Uribe SS
Schierholtz RF
Rowand CF
Ishikawa 1B
Cain P
ugh winn
ugh ishikawa
ugh still no posey
by kingofthacove on Sep 5, 2009 10:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
hmmmm no lewis?
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt he gets a single start from now until the end of the year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and he probably shouldn’t.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For his comments? Or his play?
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
comments/attitude
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 5, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh, just DIAF Bochy
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone explain to me why Ishikawa is in the lineup. Not to mention some genius called in to KNBR last night and said Ishikawa was hitting too high in the order.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We traded Scott Barnes for the right handed part of a platoon.
Man, think of the kind of trade options we might have this offseason if we still had Barnes and Alderson as trade chips to go along with the rest.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ishikawa can barely make contact lately
Garko has started like one game in a week
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GARKO CAN PLAY AGAIN ONCE HE STARTS HITTING.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something totally illogical
We all know Ishi’s Home/Road splits, but Garko is batting .108/.195/.108/.303 at AT&T. Between Ishi’s home/Garko’s away splits, we actually have a respectable 1B. I wish our manager would just try these experiments.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Sep 5, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only splits that are really worth paying attention to are L/R splits.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And not over a season.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that might be worth paying attention to, but it’s too early to tell. L/R splits happen for most players, so it’s safer to assume those are for real.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only a nerd would suggest an athlete do ssomething so intellctually plausible.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barry Zito should be hitting in front of Ishikawa!
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FRAK YOU BOCHY!
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Sep 5, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yay, Nate!
Hit ’em where they ARE!
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, what are we going to talk about next year when Fred is gone?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
“Why did we resign Winn and Molina!!!!!?”
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Sep 5, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabean has a penchant for making stupid moves, but I don’t see those happening
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Sep 5, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winn and Molina should resign.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
by SFGuy on Sep 5, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m hoping you mean abdicate.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As opposed to re-sign. (one of my pet peeves: resign and re-sign)
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
by SFGuy on Sep 5, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am going to miss Fred
If for no other reason than the reactions he draws from both sides of this debate.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 5, 2009 11:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Until reading this discussion I barely remembered which one of them was Lewis.
--
Long ago they came west over the mountains, and I have rooted for them years uncounted; and together through many ages of this world we have fought the long defeat.
by shanghaijim on Sep 5, 2009 11:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Quick Questions
How long is Lewis’ contract for?
What do we think we could get for him in a trade?
Even if you LIKE FLew, you have to admit that we have too many damn outfielders. Why not trade one if we can get something decent.
I choose to watch the Giants try to score runs. Not because it is easy, but because it is hard.
by GiantPain on Sep 5, 2009 11:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure that he’ll even be arb eligible for another year or so. He should be under team control for 3-4 more years.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is out of options so unless he makes the team next season out of spring training, he is going to be playing elsewhere.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 5, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the kind of thing that might be attractive to a team which doesn’t have 15 people who can play LF.
(yes, I’m exaggerating.)
I choose to watch the Giants try to score runs. Not because it is easy, but because it is hard.
by GiantPain on Sep 5, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the indians could use someone like him.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a 4th outfield type, yeah
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will they’d fork over anything of value though? Lewis can’t even showcase his skill sets sitting on the bench so I imagine his trade value is non-existant.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Sep 5, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if he was starting, Lewis’s value would be non-existant.
4th Outfielder types are a dime a dozen in the ML’s.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred Lewis for Barnes?
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
by SFGuy on Sep 5, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except of course Fred thinks he’s a starter. So he probably won’t like not getting to play when the Indians trot out their OF of Laporta-Sizemore-Choo.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably not much. Ben Francisco was basically a throw-in in the Cliff Lee trade, right? Lewis is pretty similar to him.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Francisco probably plays better defense (CF), but is on the wrong side of the platoon.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 5, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that probably equals out, no?
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup. Seems that way. It might even swing in favor of Fred a little, as UZR apparently hates Francisco.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 5, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
still, I think the value’s pretty similar, 1.5-2.5 win guys who can play center, but you’d rather not see it.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lewis Trade
What about Cincy-Lewis for Jonny Gomes-Gomes is from the bay area and has power which this team needs.
Grab Some Pine Meat!
by Gobroks on Sep 5, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gomes is a miserable outfielder. Even worse than Lewis, if anyone can actually imagine such a thing.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 6, 2009 5:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll still take Gomes-I think his power would offset his defense
Grab Some Pine Meat!
by Gobroks on Sep 6, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that if the Giants could have gotten something useful for Fred, he would have been traded before the 7/31 deadline.
Unfortunately, I just don’t think there is a huge market for someone with his abilities. Pretty much every team has similar players in their organization.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 5, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much every team has similar players in their organization.
Exactly.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There have been plenty of teams out there trotting out worse players than Fred Lewis every day in their OF, though.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like who?
And would the upgrade be more than marginal for them? I doubt it.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 5, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t really see anyone other than some underachieving guys (Soriano) and young guys who probably won’t lose their job (Headley)
by kingofthacove on Sep 5, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Toronto:
Jose Bautista (289 PA of 73 OPS+)
Vernon Wells (569 PA of 82 OPS+)
Detroit
Magglio Ordonez (422 PA of 94 OPS+)
Clete Thomas (271 PA of 90 OPS+)
Minnesota
Delmon Young (309 PA of 80 OPS+)
Carlos Gomez (313 PA of 74 OPS+)
Kansas City
Mitch Maier (268 PA of 86 OPS+)
Jose Guillen (312 PA of 81 OPS+)
Coco Crisp (215 PA of 90 OPS+)
Seattle
Their whole LF, between Endy Chavez, Wlad Balentien, Ryan Langerhans and Michael Saunders has been a mess, combining for about an 80-83 OPS+
Oakland
Scott Hairston lol (191 PA of 76 OPS+)
Atlanta
Garret Anderson (423 PA of 97 OPS+ and zero range… of course they have Mr. Heyward, so…)
The whole Cincy OF has been a bit of a mess
Arizona
Gerardo Parra (415 PA of 87 OPS+)
Eric Byrnes (210 PA of 57 OPS+ LOL)
I think he’d be a fit on most of those teams.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hairston!
Delmon Young makes me sad.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure what went so horribly wrong there.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to kinda relish it when over-touted prospects flamed out (and he was over-touted), but our Moms are friends and it’s kinda ugly to hear about how it affects a person.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a 4th OF which Fred apparently wants no part of
And some of those are pretty far-fetched. The BJs are going to sit Wells in favor of Fred. The Tigers are not going to bench Maggs to play Fred. That is just ridiculous.
Just taking this season’s OPS+ über alles is a tad ridiculous for this exercise.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 5, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also some of those guys play RF or CF.
by kingofthacove on Sep 5, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I said was that there were teams out there who have trotted out worse players than Fred this year in the OF. Period.
At the very least, I think he would be an upgrade for Minnesota, Seattle, Arizona and maybe Kansas City. Toronto has been pretty dire in LF. Sure, not great teams but the original statement was that there weren’t any teams out there other than the Giants that Fred would start on. And obviously he would be a solid 4th OF on most teams.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean
You don’t think Minnesota’s offense would have been better this year if they’d had something like Lewis-Span-Cuddyer and hadn’t wasted so many ABs on Delmon Young and Carlos Gomez? That they wouldn’t be better next year if they had an OF like that?
And don’t say, “Well, they weren’t going to give up on Young so quickly!” because there were plenty of rumors that they were looking to trade him before the season started.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred’s trade request came before the deadline. Do you think Sabean didn’t try to move him? If you think he did, what is your opinion on why he wasn’t traded? Face it, there isn’t a market for him. It’s not the end of the world. Fred would make a fine 4th OF. He doesn’t want that though.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 5, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it sounds from the article that Sabean didn’t try to move him.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is that Fred Lewis isn’t going to get the starting job he wants anywhere. Even if some players managed to play worse than him, I don’t think anyone is going to pursuing a player of his caliber.
by kingofthacove on Sep 5, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not
But that’s not what she was responding to.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, I just don’t think there is a huge market for someone with his abilities. Pretty much every team has similar players in their organization.
The discussion is about the market for Fred Lewis, right? It doesn’t exist, which is essentially what I said
by kingofthacove on Sep 5, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
She responded to Lars' question
He asked who has been a starter that has been worse than Fred Lewis.
I realize that the question evolved out of what you are talking about. But the direct question she answered had to do with who was worse.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok… and the reason he asked is because her post had the implication that there would be a market for Fred Lewis
based on the amount of inferior players who were getting playing time, otherwise she wouldn’t have responded to his post. I doubt his intention of asking the question was for her was simply to prove that some players played worse than Lewis, otherwise he wouldn’t have kept referring to the lack of a market even after the response.
Not really sure why you’re trying to make an argument out of this…
by kingofthacove on Sep 5, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look – Fred’s a 4th OF, borderline starter for a few teams. He might not get that option but it doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be worthy of it on a few teams. There we go. The end.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really sure why you’re trying to make an argument out of this…
I’m pretty sure I’m not. Anyway, jp ended it even if it was.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well understand that I took it as you being a dick, so call it whatever you want.
by kingofthacove on Sep 6, 2009 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have a pretty loose definition of "dick."
TWSS!
Anyway, I wasn’t rude in any way. Usually, I’ll be pretty open to other’s opinions on this matter, but there’s no way that I was rude here.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 6, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did nothing that was even remotely close to being a dick.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 6, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I thought this whole sidebar conversation was pretty civil…well, until the end.
I asked a question.
Jporny answered.
I questioned some of her results and methodology.
She clarified her position.
It was when the dogpile started that it got out of hand; which seems pretty typical with a Fred discussion.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 6, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know, I’m re-reading it, and I don’t really see a dogpile. There’s a discussion between you and jponry, and then a discussion between kingofthacove and thehavenot.
Do you see anything in thehavenot’s comments that make it seem like he’s “trying to make an argument”, let alone
“being a dick”?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 7, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
parra
i’m pretty sure fred would not be an upgrade over a barely 22 y/o parra, who by all accounts, plays excellent defense with a cannon in CF or RF.
by giantdonkey on Sep 5, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uggh. I just hope this doesn’t become a distraction.
Insanity is just a state of mind.
by giants9107 on Sep 5, 2009 11:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It won’t.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How would it?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Sep 5, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, this organization is in shambles.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 5, 2009 11:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Umm, Lewis is reeeeeeally kidding himself if he thinks he can be a starter elsewhere. The only reason he should have been a starter here is because we have a really crappy outfield.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
by cheno on Sep 5, 2009 11:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Although he is helping solve our log jam of mediocre-below average outfielders.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
by cheno on Sep 5, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse me but I need to stop logging onto this site. I can’t be seen hanging out with NERDS.
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
by tk on Sep 5, 2009 11:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I can’t, I have a chess club meeting.
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
by tk on Sep 5, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Chess club nerdier than AV club?
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
was that English?
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh why I oughta… I oughta.. I’ve got A LEVEL 50 DRUID and he can SERIOUSLY HURT YOU!
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
by cheno on Sep 5, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go play WoW then!
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL NAVY
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 11:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This makes me sad
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 5, 2009 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
look guys
can’t we just admit that Fred has been incredibly UNCLUTCH this year? He sucks with runners in scoring position, he has 16 rbis in over 300 plate appearances . . . even if he does have a high on base percentage, he seems to get on base at useless times. When there’s a runner on third he walks. When there’s nobody on base he gets a basehit. If the game’s on the line, or if there’s two outs and we need a hit – he looks at strike three. In terms of plating runs, he has not produced. Divide his runs + rbi’s divided by total plate appearances, and do the same with Eugenio Velez. Which guy is better at producing runs? Who has come through when we really needed him to?
You guys were bitching that Bochy pinch hit Lewis for Ishikawa the other day, because most of you don’t trust Lewis with the game on the line. I don’t care how high his on base percentage is, if you don’t trust a player with the game on the line, I don’t want him in the lineup at all.
Let’s not forget, that the only place Lewis would be good in the lineup is leadoff, and he had an incredibly low batting average there, I think below the Mendoza line. This guy just doesn’t have it between the ears, and it shows up in his defensive play.
Also, Eugenio has been hitting about .300 with a .340 on base percentage, and about a .470 slugging percentage since his callup. If that’s not a hot streak, I don’t know what is. You bitch about small sample size when it fits your argument, then pull up a two week span when Eugenio was only OPSing .700 to prove KFRED should start over him. Well, he’s OPSing over .800 since his callup and that’s not small sample size. Fred’s “hotstreak” from this last month is small sample size however, and you won’t see JPONRY admitting that because he/she has attached their ego to this player who fucking sucks at the worst possible times. This is a playoff run, we can’t afford to play a guy with a bad attitude who can’t hit with runners in scoring position.
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
tjbrun88 has it all figured out!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the dumb of this thread, condensed into one reply. Thanks!
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 5, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thereby lies the anti-Fred Lewis argument, and it sucks.
by DesertFox on Sep 5, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Divide his runs + rbi’s divided by total plate appearances
WTF is there some newsletter you all are subscribing to?
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there some chat room that all these people use that I dont know about?
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now here’s a guy with the right idea! JPONRY’s reign of Fred Lewis related terror has been allowed to continue on unchecked for far too long!
MORE LIKE K-FRED, AMIRITE?
by jporny on Sep 5, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha ha ha ha
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 5, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
holy crap that is a lot of garbage condensed into one post.
by jctGamer on Sep 5, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Imagine the length of the reply
If someone were to respond to every point that needs responding to.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I’m not wrong.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
notice
how none of you respond with anything of substance. You just stick with your theories, and dismiss anything that says otherwise.
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The substance is everywhere. There’s really no point in repeating it again and again
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's plenty of substance
in this very thread, even.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’ve had this discussion approximately 10000 times before. I’m not about to rehash the whole goddamn thing for one n00b who brings up the same points that have been debunked a dozen times.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus Christ man, how many thousands of comments have been thrown around this website about the subject of Teh clutchiness and range versus hands.? If you can’t figure out what the Pro-Lewis side thinks about this stuff, you’re illiterate.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure
jponry has admitted that she has been wrong in the past.
I’m too lazy to look for evidence, but I’d be willing to bet she has.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
even if clutch doesn't exist
when you see one guy FAIL in clutch situations over and over, I think it’s entirely possible that somebody can be UNCLUTCH. If it’s a key situation, he seems to get nervous and fuck up. You don’t see this happen on the field? Are you watching the games?
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The reply fail is the icing on this FAIL cake.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how about
something substantial other than your elitist "he forgot to click +reply!!!!!
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read the whole thread
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yesterday’s Fred Lewis discussion and the one two days before that and the one before that and the one before that and
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So much Fred Lewis talk so little time. Seriously, I think Fred is a useful player but how are we talking about Fred Lewis so much.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the first Fred Lewis discussion I've been involved in!
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are all the same.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
This is the first issue of the Fred Lewis discussion I’ve been involved in!
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did. It seems like you just put all your eggs in the OBP basket and try to invalidate everything Velez has done to help this team win
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL OBP WHO CARES WE DON’T NEED OBP TO SCORE RUNS LOOK AT HOW GOOD THE 2009 GIANTS HAVE BEEN
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read it again.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading comprehension fail.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 5, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comprehension in general, I’d say.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would recommend
That you read Grant’s main post from Friday that features all the tables regarding runs per game, OBP, and a variety of other damning indictments of the Giants organizational philosophy when it comes to hitting.
Because Grant says it better than any of us can.
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
by Kitspool on Sep 5, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOU MEAN THE ONE
where he dissed velez who then accounted for our only run?
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, one Velez leadoff homer=complete refutation of Grant’s argument?
I think it’s time for me to go outside and get some fresh air.
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
by Kitspool on Sep 5, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait
Was this the guy who mocked all of the Velez haters in the gameday thread after he hit that leadoff homerun? The guy who then didn’t respond to any of us who pointed out that one at bat means nothing?
I think it is! Fantastic.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn’t that the point? We score one run off a HR because of their complete inability to get on base or work counts or have a general idea of what to do at the plate.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it’s because OBP Is far and away the most important part of offensive baseball.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
clutch doesn’t exist but unclutch does?
Your confusion goes deeper than baseball.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus lol Fred’s consistent fail in clutch situations. He was decent last year and the year before BUT THIS YEAR IS THE TRUE TALENT LEVEL
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The year he doesn’t get PT= his true talent level.
by DesertFox on Sep 5, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you act like people are computers
that don’t change. There is a true talent level and statistically he will come back to his mean. Well that mean changes over time as players develop and you completely ignore that.
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he developed his anti-clutchness?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That means he can develop clutchness!
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
run clutch.exe
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why is that not possible
if he has problems between his ears it can hurt his performance. I don’t see how that’s unreasonable.
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you develop anti-clutchness?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred Lewis
When he walks, it is with 2 outs and RISP.
When he gets a hit, it is with the bases empty.
He doesn’t always drop fly balls. But when he does, the bases are loaded.
by DesertFox on Sep 5, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does this answer my question?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same question
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who has developed? Velez still sucks.
by DesertFox on Sep 5, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why does velez suck
look at his numbers since his callup? why is it not possible that HE HAS DEVELOPED!?
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
just reverse your Fred Lewis argument
have you watched him play?
by DesertFox on Sep 5, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Developed from what? He’s always kind of sucked and still he kind of sucks.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's possible
It’s highly unlikely. But it’s possible. Forgive us for being skeptics.
But here’s the larger point. Why Velez? It’s more likely that Bowker has developed than Velez has. Yet, Velez is getting the starts every day whereas Bowker has all of 33 plate appearances this year. It makes no sense.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you remember
a year ago when you guys were bashing Bowker? And now because he put up a really good year in AAA it’s BOWKERMANIA. I like Bowker, but jesus, you guys are such groupthinkers! and it has everything to do with the way the mods act
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we like Bowker because he took his main weakness (OBP) and appears to have fixed it in AAA this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And this is the crux of the argument. Bowker has always put better MiL numbers than Velez and has done while being age-appropriate (or at least much more-so) for the levels at which he was playing. Yes, his play last year in SF was not good, but then he went down to Fresno and appeared to have learned how to take a walk while still hitting the ball with power. Velez did no such thing and suddenly started hitting when he was called up this year. Has he been a nice player since his call-up? Yes. Is it likely that Bowker is a (much) better player? Also yes.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never bashed Bowker
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the mccoven groupthink
was. and saying how ISHI is a better option. Jesus, you can SEE bowker has more talent than ISHI in terms of hitting, that has always been apparent. Sometimes you do have to believe your eyes (insert “oh boy” comment here)
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
because of defense.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I care not at all about your perception of MCC groupthink
I was the one who brought up Bowker here and so it is my outlook on Bowker that is relevant.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
John Bowker can not play first base, and no one who watched him last year would think otherwise.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ding ding ding.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you’re saying that we were stupid to be bashing Bowker when he was doing poorly, but then praise him when he appeared to improve?
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, everytime Albert Pujols strikes out, he sucks until his next at bat?
What you don’t understand is that almost every single player who’s ever played major league baseball has had their RISP averages bounce around like this.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
even so
what’s wrong with riding the hot hand when it comes to who is hitting with runners in scoring position? And let’s not compare Pujols to Lewis, jesus christ
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s not. He’s talking about sample size
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 5, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve got a game for you.
I’ll flip a coin 20 times. If there’s a streak of 5 heads in a row, would you bet that the next one is heads?
That’s kinda like what “playing the hot hand with RISP” is like. You are mistaking random variation for a real pattern.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
except hitting a baseball
is not at all like flipping a coin. Ironically, taking a close pitch with two strikes is!!
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
baseball is not generally like that, but RISP is.
If RISP weren’t heavily luck influenced then everyone would be more consistent at it. They aren’t so it isn’t.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about it
makes it so luck influenced? just curious
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is actually a pretty good primer on the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutch_hitter
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 5, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's Baseball, Bitches!
“You can take those stat guys,” Derek Jeter once told Sports Illustrated after SI informed the Yankees shortstop that many analysts deny clutch hitting as a skill, “and throw them out the window.”
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know why he said this, right?
Because those are pretty much the only people who don’t worship the god of shortstops.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You envy his clutch "scoring".
off the field
by hokysmksbw on Sep 5, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
A characature.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if he still hates those same stat guys who are now lobbying for him to win the MVP.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 5, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the stats guys really got to him a couple of years ago when they said he was the worst fielding shortstop in the AL.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 5, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Random variation within a limited (i.e. small) sample.
Or, what people have said on this site literally thousands of times.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is not to say that it is impossible for a player’s mental state to have some impact, either positively or negatively, on their performance—-e.g. confidence leading to “clutch hits” or a lack of confidence leading to “choking”.
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I’m not denying that at all. What I’m saying is that you have NO idea (literally no possible way of knowing) if that’s the reason why Fred’s doing poorly this year or if it’s just (I hate the to use the word but I can’t really articulate a better one now) luck.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is to say that it’s utterly impossible to even come close to concluding whether or not a player is clutch based on 75 PA’s.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
then why didn’t you want Lewis up with the game on the line then?
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s not a particularly good contact hitter and that was a spot where a strikeout was more painful than usual.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it were generally because of a player’s psychology, then there would be ton of guys who have much better/worse career numbers with RISP, because players don’t get a new randomly distributed brain every season.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
your brain constantly
changes with experiences
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What experiences, do you think, changed Fred's brain into the unclutch one he has now?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it could be anything
A couple years ago I was raped and now I can’t perform in social situations. I have anxiety around people. I am a different person now because of it.
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see
I’m not sure what to say here…
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
your mental state
constantly changes
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there may be some projection here
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 5, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'm pretty much the same person
I’ve gained experience and wisdom as I have aged. I feel I am a better person now than I was 2 years ago.
I guess, since you brought it up it’s fair game…
So, what exactly would you compare, speaking in a baseball sense, getting raped to?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it doesn't have
to be in a baseball sense. We don’t know what is going on in Fred’s pesronal life. Either way, it seems like when you need him to perform, he can’t. So why have him in there at all? Yeah I think he’ll score some runs after his walks, but he won’t drive any in. And with a team that already has such a low on base percentage, we need guys who can cash in on opportunities, rather than look at strike three and hope it gets called a ball.
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as in
If you have David Wright, Pablo Sandoval, and Albert Pujols batting 2-3-4 behind Lewis he’s a great option. But in this weak Giant’s lineup he’s basically worthless.
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any help is good help
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Face-palm.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whenever you use the word "seems" when describing a players performance
You probably want to look for more evidence before stating things in an absolute sense.
Otherwise, don’t you think having people that get on base is a good way to help solve the problem of the giants not getting on base? That would seem to me to be at least as good a solution as having someone who can cash in on opportunities.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
16 rbis
in over 300 plate appearances is all the evidence i need. he has a useless OPS. Why do you think nobody likes Rowand here when he has a decent OPS? Again, he SEEMS to never get a hit when we need him to.
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you noticed
that most of the people who complain about Rowand don’t advocate benching him for the semi-prospects?
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OBP is never useless. Never.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred Lewis has had a pretty traumatic life too, with the car accident, and effing up Brad Ziegler’s face with a line drive. I’m pretty sure if he couldn’t keep that stuff off the field, he wouldn’t have made it past A-ball.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think
there’s a reason why teams chose to walk Bonds all the time. I think that right there shows walks don’t exactly help when the rest of your team can’t hit. We need hitters, not guys who stand there and hope for the best. Otherwise just promote Bocock.
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walks
Help out the offense because it puts the pitchers in the stretch, where they are (usually) not as effective.
No one is arguing that walks are better than hits.
But walks > productive outs and consistently making weak contact when putting the ball in play
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
um no.
If the game is on the line. One out and a runner on third. I want the guy up to hit a sac fly, not walk.
by tjbrun88 on Sep 5, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was responding to this point:
I think that right there shows walks don’t exactly help when the rest of your team can’t hit.
Furthermore, I want the same thing. However, I’ll take the walk over the infield popups/weak grounders that other players put up.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WE AGREE ON SOMETHING WOOHOO.
/end thread
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personalities are relatively stable over the time periods that people play baseball for.
Brian Wilson isn’t going to wake up tomorrow with Randy Winn’s personality.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok umm
I’m usually one of the more tempered-mouthed posters here BUT WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE DOING HAVING ANOTHER MOTHERFUCKING FRED MOTHERFUCKING LEWIS WASTE OF FUCKING TIME THREAD DAMNIT?!!!!!
Can we get some sort of required reading that explains why that although Fred Lewis has not performed well in “clutch” situations this season, HE’S SO DAMN FUCKING FAR FROM BEING THE BIGGEST FUCKING PROBLEM ON THIS SAD FUCKING JOKE OF AN OFFENSE TEAM?!!
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2009 12:25 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
sorry mods
feel free to delete this….
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL this guy
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, pretty much
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re going to be sorry you posted this when the Mods call you to appear in front of that death panel they’re setting up.
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
by Kitspool on Sep 5, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, this is a good comment.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Sep 5, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Needs more “fuck” though
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who doesn’t?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred Lewis is tearing this family apart!!!!!!!!
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 5, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, pretty much.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Sep 5, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This should really be a Fanpost.
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
by Kitspool on Sep 5, 2009 12:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t even care any more. Before the season, or even a few months ago, this sort of thing would’ve bothered me. I’m just so frustrated by Bochy’s unwillingness to make adjustments that any criticism, even from the players, seems deserved. “Winn and Molina aren’t hitting but that just means they’re due. Every out they make just makes them more likely to get a hit next time, so I have to keep throwing them up there. It’s the law of averages.” “Lewis/Bowker/ fill-in-the-blank is slumping because they are young and they just suck because I said so. I’m definitely not going to start them.”
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Sep 5, 2009 1:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is still alive?
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 1:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I bet if I were to read through it, I would find a bunch of really fresh and eye-opening observations about Fred Lewis up there.
Oh well.
by Evan on Sep 5, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used profanity
And I wasn’t even talking about you…
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did too =(
Still in despair.
"Use the stencil! Do it!"
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on Sep 5, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I wish I'd been here
To think I thought I pioneered the Fred Lewis bandwagon.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Sep 5, 2009 5:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, this thread was an…interesting read.
by ryanmiles on Sep 5, 2009 6:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I had not heard any of these arguments... yet today.
Serious suggestion: Maybe JPonry could post a McCFAQ laying out her stats in defense of Fred Lewis so she could then just link to that whenever anyone says a syllable of criticism of Fred; and someone can write up the “anti-Fred” case and it can be posted alongside it. Then we can tolerate anyone’s throwaway one-liner comments about Fred — for either pro or con — and let it the frack GO, knowing that The Truth Is Already Posted. I hate to see JP retype all this every single day, often more than once.
Of course, we could also just acknowledge that sometimes people hold opinions and we needn’t challenge them every time we disagree. Just saying.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 5, 2009 7:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Someone just sidebar the pros and cons of Fred so we dont have to discuss it everyday
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DAMMIT, CB30, ISN'T THAT WHAT I JUST SAID? ARE YOU DEAF???
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 5, 2009 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will admit to only reading the subject line. I was tired from reading this whole thread
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 5, 2009 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was all fresh for me
I had stayed out of the KFred (hehehe) discussion, previously.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 5, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Fred Lewis and anyone who disagrees will be banned :)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 7:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Very well. I agree that you like Fred Lewis.
(escapes ban)
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 5, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG Gestapo!
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Sep 5, 2009 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FRED LEWIS CAUSED DINOSAURS TO GO EXTINCT
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carl Everett doesn’t believe in Fred Lewis!
by Hobbes2d on Sep 5, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Counter-proof: bruce jenkins still has a job.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 5, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like a snake or chicken, Jenkins continues to flail about long after his demise.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 5, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just find it kind of funny people are getting worked up about…Fred Lewis.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
by SFGuy on Sep 5, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s the one constant of MCC.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't you remember
all the backup catcher hyperventilation threads? OMG STEVE HOLM WAS SENT DOWN WHY IS G ROD UP O NOES
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
"Waaaaah!"-Bengie Molina
by natteringnabob on Sep 5, 2009 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think what was most shocking today is that, even with Velez playing 2B, they didn’t play Fred (or Bowker for that matter) in LF. They played Winn in LF instead? I mean, even if they want to have Velez in the lolineup everyday, why wouldn’t they take advantage of the opportunity to play Fred in LF when Velez wasn’t there?
I don’t get it.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 5, 2009 8:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Winn got the GW double, nerd.
THAT’S BASEBALL
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 5, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
COUNTRY HARDBALL
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Sep 5, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sad/funny thing is that you just espoused Bochy’s philosophy re Winn. Because, he’s back in the lineup today BATTING FIFTH, for the love of God!
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 6, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This thread makes my head hurt.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Sep 5, 2009 9:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ANGRY THREAD
is angry.
Kurt Ainsworth Roofing and Insulation. Great service since 2005!
by dangjackson on Sep 5, 2009 9:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Holy lord
What the fuck happened here? Oh, another Fred Lewis thread…great. Well, keep fighting the good fight intelligent people, I’m on your side.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
by marcello on Sep 5, 2009 11:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Look, can't we all just agree...
That an outfield of Velez in left, Winn in center and Lewis in right would scare the living shit out of all of us?
49ers, Giants, Lakers. One of these things is not like the others.
Adoptive parent of Duke Neukom.
Still hoping there's a corner for Alex Smith to turn at some point.
by Gabafnerhagen on Sep 6, 2009 12:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Winn is good.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Sep 6, 2009 2:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs