What's Wrong With the Giants Offense? Oh, A Couple of Things...
by Grant Brisbee on Sep 4, 2009 7:26 AM PDT
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PrintThis post isn't for most of you. About 99% know all of this. But if you would kindly alert the non-baseball nerd world to some of these points, that'd be just swell.
After the Giants' offense failed again, people were all abuzz about Edgar Renteria's at-bat in the sixth inning. "Edgar should have bunted! Edgar should have given himself up to hit one to the right side! The Giants can't afford not to do The Little Things. This is why the Giants lost!"
This is dangerous, dangerous thinking. It puts the blame on an inability to make outs the right way. It shifts the blame away from the real culprit, which is an inability to avoid outs. The Giants don't score runs. For example...
| Tm | R/G ▾ |
|---|---|
| PHI | 5.12 |
| COL | 5.02 |
| MIL | 4.86 |
| LAD | 4.78 |
| FLA | 4.71 |
| ATL | 4.56 |
| ARI | 4.54 |
| STL | 4.50 |
| WSN | 4.47 |
| LgAvg | 4.45 |
| CHC | 4.41 |
| NYM | 4.19 |
| HOU | 4.09 |
| PIT | 4.07 |
| CIN | 4.03 |
| SFG | 4.02 |
| SDP | 3.91 |
| 4.45 | |
| Tm | BA ▾ |
|---|---|
| LAD | .273 |
| NYM | .268 |
| FLA | .266 |
| ATL | .266 |
| HOU | .263 |
| WSN | .262 |
| MIL | .262 |
| COL | .262 |
| STL | .261 |
| LgAvg | .259 |
| SFG | .259 |
| PHI | .258 |
| PIT | .254 |
| CHC | .254 |
| ARI | .254 |
| CIN | .244 |
| SDP | .242 |
| .259 |
Oh. So they're actually a league-average team when it comes to batting average. Well, that doesn't prove anything. If they could just do the little things and move runners over, scoring with a runner on third and less than two outs, they could take advantage of...
| PrdOut | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Tm | Opp | Suc | % ▾ |
| HOU | 484 | 173 | 36% |
| NYM | 519 | 181 | 35% |
| SFG | 498 | 171 | 34% |
| FLA | 504 | 170 | 34% |
| COL | 520 | 177 | 34% |
| CIN | 507 | 174 | 34% |
| MIL | 487 | 162 | 33% |
| LAD | 555 | 183 | 33% |
| ATL | 470 | 157 | 33% |
| LgAvg | 502 | 161 | 32% |
| STL | 489 | 157 | 32% |
| PHI | 463 | 139 | 30% |
| SDP | 500 | 147 | 29% |
| PIT | 475 | 140 | 29% |
| ARI | 516 | 152 | 29% |
| WSN | 534 | 152 | 28% |
| CHC | 509 | 134 | 26% |
| 8030 | 2569 | 32% | |
PrdOut is short for "productive outs", defined as one of three events: 1) a successful sacrifice for a pitcher with one out, 2) advancing any runner with none out, and 3) Driving in a base runner with the second out of an inning. And the Giants are at the top of the league. They can do the little things with the best of them. They move runners over as much as any team in the league.
It feels like they constantly fail, though, because every runner-on-third, one out situation feels like it will be the only chance for the Giants to score. And we remember those failed opportunities at the end of the game. They sting. But those missed chances happen to every team.
The problem isn't productive outs. The problem is outs. Every hitter who isn't Pablo Sandoval or Fred Lewis makes more outs than the average hitter. Bengie Molina has the second-worst on-base percentage in the NL. Even worse, when he's on base, he isn't able to score from second on a single, or from first on a double. Randy Winn has the second-worst on-base percentage among NL right fielders. Even worse, these two players are routinely given spots of honor in the batting order, spots that maximize RBI opportunities and guarantee more plate appearances over the course of a season.
This is to say nothing of their lack of power, but there isn't a magic cleanup hitter waiting to spring forth and hit 20 September home runs. There are two hitters, though, who have a good chance at improving the Giants' on-base woes. John Bowker had a .451 on-base percentage in AAA. Lop off 100 points from that total if you think that's what the jump up to the majors will do to his numbers -- that's a bit of a overreaction, but do it if it makes you feel better -- and Bowker would still have the third-best on-base percentage on the team. And we know he can hit for a little power at the major league level.
Buster Posey had a .416 on-base percentage over two minor league levels. That would probably dip a bit in the majors, but he wouldn't be the second-worst outmaker in the league. Even if he were that bad, if his on-base percentage were to drop 150 points in the majors to match Molina's, at least he can make it home from second on a triple. And it isn't as if he's wearing an oven mitt on the field and telling the pitchers to throw knuckleballs, dropsy-dos, and slowballs. He's a freaking catcher. He isn't going to be that much worse than Molina.
But the Giants don't care about minor league performances. Can you imagine a GM saying, "Ah, I have no idea what Ruben Rivera did last year. Don't know his batting average. Don't know how many home runs he hit. I just know he has all the tools, and he looked good when I watched him play, so he'll be the cleanup hitter when the season starts"? Fired on the spot. Ignoring minor league performances is just as archaic. For every Todd Linden or Mike Marshall who sputtered after big minor league seasons, there are ten players who carried their success over from the high minors. You take Todd Linden as your example of AAA-to-MLB futility. I'll take every good hitter in the majors as an example that minor league stats mean something, with the exception of Hanley Ramirez, who didn't do a lot of anything in AAA.
Is it a risk to start young, unproven players in a playoff push? Absolultely. Imagine what would happen if they were the worst hitters in baseball. Why, they'd be replacing some of the worst hitters in baseball. What kind of Folgers crystals switcheroo madness that would be. And the Giants wouldn't score runs. Not sure where the risk is.
This has zero chance of happening. There's no way that Bowker or Posey will get any starts down the stretch. But if this post stops someone from saying "The Giants need a hitting coach who helps with the little things!", I'll sleep better. This is the best pitching staff we'll probably ever see. The people in charge of the offense were gifted one of the best hitters in the N.L. He was left on our doorstep, like a chubby little George Brett in a bonnet. And instead of being a part of a great team, he's the only thing that kept the 2009 Giants from being one of the worst offenses of all time.
The Giants are a bad hitting team. They could get better, but the people in charge will choose not to because they believe in dragons and unicorns veterans getting better with age down the stretch. I, for one, look forward to the contract extensions given to Brian Sabean and Bruce Bochy. And Randy Winn and Bengie Molina, too? We can only hope.
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Oh, cool.
The ghost post is back.
Anyway, lol at “chubby little George Brett in a bonnet.”
Bengie Molina is a black hole on offense
And Im sick of the veterans who cant get their OBP over .320. This is the major leagues, make a change if something doesnt work.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
I'll clarify
Im sick of anyone who cant get on base at league average.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
I’m sick of the whiney butthurt attitude along with the inability to get on base at league average.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
I also hate that they called up Posey to not start him. Most likely, he’s going to be better than Molina right now. From the sound of it, it sounds like Posey is behind Whiteside on the depth list. Of course, I could be a little impatient, but he needs to get a few at-bats.
I am really hoping that they are letting him get in a routine before letting him catch. For example meet with rags and go over video, maybe he is calling games with Rags in the dugout or whoever. Maybe 5/6 games like this then boom! He is in this thing
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Those are good things, but I get the feeling that the team has made way too much of an issue of Buster being a rookie catcher.
I totally agree with you. I just tell myself those things so I don’t kill anyone
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions
The only reason Posey was brought up is because Bengie wouldn’t play.
The reason he should have been brought up is because he is a better option than either Bengie or Eli.
I still want brownies.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions
let’s be realistic here. Getting yourself aggravated because September call ups like Buster and Bowker aren’t playing is going to be a waste of energy. The Giants’ are fighting for a playoff spot, and Bruce Bochy is going to attempt to go to the dance with the guys that brung him. We may not like it, but that’s the way it has always worked. If we were in the position we were in the last couple of years, Posey, Bowker, Guzman, etc. would probably be playing every day, but we have to keep reminding ourselves that that would not be a good thing.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
But he's been hitting cleanup all year and here we are
QED, computer.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
He has been extraordinarily bad in the cleanup spot all year. The Giants are where they are in spite of Bengie. Not because of him.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions
LOLARS
you fell in so hard
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
HEY! THERE’S NO BROWNIES DOWN HERE!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
/cry
Seriously, ever since Merope mentioned brownies I have been craving them.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions
My girlfriend made lemon bars last night. I ate way too many and today I feel sick. :(
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
We actually finished them. There are no more to be had!
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Lemon Bars, eh? Is that what you kids are calling the sex you’re having these days?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
LOLthescored’s fail beard cock blocks him!
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Quite the contrary, my good man. Quite the contrary.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
LARS WANTS BARS
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
That hard and deep
TWSS
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Depressing nonetheless
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
Major league managers don’t think like that, and I bet you wouldn’t either if you were a manager. While fans like you and me find it easy to say “bench this guy” and “get rid of that guy” the manager deals with these players on a daily basis and after having the Rowand’s, Winn’s, Renteria’s, and Molina’s compete for him for 130 games, he’s not going to dump them for kids he doesn’t know in the midst of a playoff chase. I’m sure he feels that he owes it to them to continue to play them. This is why fans don’t like Bochy, but he’s just doing what any other major league manager would do.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
I’m sure he feels that he owes it to them to continue to play them.
I wish he felt that he owed it to the team (and fans) to play the best players he has available to him.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree that Bochy is a pretty good “player’s manager”, but with Winn and Molina sucking hard and in the final days of their contracts, should we be concerned with their feelings?
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
The fans no, Bochy yes. I’m a fan too, and I want Buster in the lineup, but I’m just trying to see things as Bochy probably does.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
do you start adding -y suffixes to your family’s names when you do that?
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Google Pro Tip
Do not under any circumstances ever search for “wifey”.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know how bad it is. I remember stumbling across it back in the days of dial-up.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
needs more beers.
Gary Darling, go DIAFF.
by The Enchanter on Sep 4, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure it’s about who he ‘owes.’ His job is to win baseball games, and I’m sure he genuinely believes he will win more baseball games with Bengie playing every day and batting cleanup than with Buster playing every day and batting second. Of course, we all think that’s nuts, but there is a kind of logic it:
Baseball has the most ferociously Darwinian system for identifying and developing athletic talent that the world has ever seen. Veterans have survived that system. Rookies have not. Therefore veterans are a safer bet than rookies.
So, bases loaded, one out, Bengie waves at a slider a foot outside and taps the ball to second. Lead runner out at second, Bengie, of course, out by a mile at first. And Bochy thinks: look at Bengie, what a competitor, put the ball in play and ran his heart out to try to keep the inning alive.
Same situation, Posey hits a good pitch, right to the shortstop, 6-4-3. And Bochy thinks: that’s why you can’t trust a rookie.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
This just reminds me again why most managers (not baseball managers, just managers in general) are extraordinarily bad at their jobs.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
You know who doesn’t seem to care about feelings when putting together lineups? Joe Torre. Guess who wins every year? Joe Torre.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
We’re not frustrated over that. It is more the fact that they would call him up to sit him on the bench
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions
When they called him up Molina was injured and out of the lineup. I don’t think they called him up with the idea of sitting him, I think it just turned out that way. Look at the bright side. Molina may be coming back early and if he shows signs he’s not 100 %, Bochy is hopefully going to do the right thing and take him out of the lineup once again. Not only that, but considering he weighs 350 pounds, there’s a good chance he aggravates the injury anyway.
I hope Sabean paid close attention to the comments that Brad Penny made after his start. He talked about the way Eli Whiteside worked with him and said he was as good or better than almost any catcher he has ever worked with. (Suck it, Russell Martin!!) With this in mind, I would think it would be easy to cut the cord with Molina after this season. There’s no need to sign Molina again so that they can bring Posey along slowly with a veteran presence. They already have one in Eli Whiteside.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
The problem is that even if Molina were at 100%, Posey is almost assuredly a clear upgrade.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 4, 2009 8:40 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
But it's worth the gamble to offer him arb
Lowball offer, make it clear that if he signs, he’s a backup. He turns it down, and hello! Type A FA! For a guy we don’t want anyway!
Who’s stupid enough to sign him? Team with bat catching, young pitchers they’re trying to develop, retarded FO? Say hello to the 2010 Kansas City Royals!
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
But if he does accept, he’s likely to make $6 million+ in arb… are we willing to pay that much for a backup (who will probably be firmly entrenched in the cleanup spot by May if Posey doesn’t come out of the gate hitting .320?)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
This
There’s some rule about the arb process, where you can’t be awarded less than you made the year before, isn’t that right?
So Bengie would make at least 6 mil if he accepted.
I could see some team giving him a two year deal, but I’d still be scared of him accepting arbitration.
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
No, that’s only for young players going into arb. But Bengie has the numbers the arb dudes like (HR AND RBI!) so I doubt he’d get any sort of drop in pay.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
RBIS!
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
RsBI!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
RIBS > RBI'S
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
That really wouldn’t be a good use of the Giants budget this offseason. Posey represents a clear upgrade at catcher at a much cheaper price. They’d be better spending that money upgrading one or both of the corner outfield positions and possibly first base and signing another starter and a Greg Zaun veteran catcher for like $1M.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 4, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Quick point
here’s what a real mlb team does: the Rays called up and used David Price to help the get to a world series. If you have a better player, you put his ass on the field, and fuck the “emotions” of your VETERAN PLAYERS. They of all people should know that they aren’t as good anymore.
Winn himself has said he’s fine with sitting as long as he gets to finally play in the playoffs. Fuck Molina in the earhole- he is old, fat, and slow. He could fix the fat part, but hasn’t ever done it. He’s going to be gone from this team in a couple months, there is no reason we need to miss the playoffs because his fragile little ego might get a boo boo. He’s had some great hits in key spots, but Buster would CLEARLY be an upgrade, and he did NOT get called up to sit on the bench. Seriously, he should be playing every day.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Dont you play to win the game? I like the fact that Winn would gladly sit if its for the better of the team winning. That’s how more people on this team should feel.
Bengie is too full of himself for that
Winn is classy
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
The funny thing is, I bet Winn saying that he would be fine with sitting on the bench is the thing that truly inspired Bochy to give him the majority of ABs in RF for the rest of the year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Funny?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Randy Winn, master of reverse psychology!
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Boo, you’re prolly right.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
Winn: starts vs RHP away games only
Should never start another game against a LHP this season.
And his home splits are terrible also. Of course, if that means Velez and Lewis in the OF with Rowand …
our pitchers are likely to have grey hair by October.
This is the same organization that decided to trade away the only pitcher who could fill the role of closer simply because they didn’t want to trust a young guy as the starting catcher. And he wasn’t a rookie.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
Judging from Bochy’s comments the last few days, it seems like the Giants are afraid to play Posey. Morons
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Sep 4, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Once again:
"A foghorn blowing out wild and cold." -Dire Straits
by FriscoJoe on Sep 4, 2009 7:48 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
looool!
i missed this one before
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Worked for simmons!
wait…
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Great Post
The inflexibility of management (Sabes and Bork) when it comes to the issue of veterans is the biggest problem at this point with the offense. Randy Winn batting fifth just boggles my mind. It’s boggled, I tell you!
The funny thing is the inflexibility of management is not very consistent with these veterens. Benji always has to bat fourth, but last night he dropped Rowand all the way to 8th. Is this because you could punch Scott in the face and he wouldn’t be offended, but if you drop Benji in the order a few spots because of his inability to avoid outs, his feelings will get hurt. I can’t really believe this. Bochy really believes he is the best option in the four hole and that is really sad.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Sep 4, 2009 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought I remember reading that Bengie was ok with batting lower in the order?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
Yes, but then he sits in the corner and pouts
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
he said he realized that he’s not a typical cleanup hitter and if the team got one, he’d gladly step aside. He doesn’t think the team got one.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 4, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, if you batted your right fielder 7th like he deserves you might have to admit that maybe he shouldn’t be your right fielder at all.
give Winn some credit though. That two out ninth inning single followed by a steal of second and third would have been a winning play on a team with a good offense like the ones the Giants’ are playing this week. Randy Winn is still a good complementary player. That’s the problem with this team’s offense. All the starters are useful utility players.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
I agree with everything in this post
Giants are fine at ‘doing the little things’, it just that they never have that many opportunities to because there are rarely any base runners on base to move over or score from third on a fly ball, or a third of their line up is gimpy/slow and they can’t score that extra run in a game that really do matter.
I posted this in the wrong spot last night
Hang me with here. Follow the beat.
"Changes" — jct "2pac" gamer
Come on come on
I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself
is this game worth watching should I blast myself?
I’m tired of watching Rowand & even worse Molina
my head hurts so I’m lookin’ for a wall to punch
Sabes give a damn about K-Fran? No
Play Velez hit a HR he’s a hero
Give the chance to matt downs who the hell cares
one less chatty mouth on the roster? Yeah.
First throw ‘em curve & fast ball on the corner
give ’em sliders down and in watch ’em swing through another
I got my swing back that’s what Randy said
2 sliders in the dirt now the rally’s dead
I got love for my Giants but we can never go nowhere
unless we hits a few homers
We gotta start makin’ changes
learn to see some pitches instead of first pitch swinging
and that’s how it’s supposed to be
How can Pedro shut us down if he’s close to 40?
I’d love to go back to when we scored some runs
but things changed, and that’s the way it is
[Bridge w/ changing ad libs]
Come on come on
That’s just the way it is
Things’ll never be the same
That’s just the way it is
aww yeah
[Repeat]
2
I see no changes all I see is veteran faces
misplaced Nate makes disgrace to bases
We under I wonder what it takes to make this
one better lineup, let’s erase the wasted
Take Molina out the lineup they’ll be acting right
‘cause both black and white is hacking at slop tonight
and only time we win is when we blank the other
it takes skill to be winners, time for Cain to lose each other
And although it seems heaven sent
We ain’t ready, to see a catcher that’s competent, uhh
It ain’t a secret don’t conceal the fact
Buster Posey’s real, and Molina’s wacked
But some things will never change
try to take freaking walk but then you’re benched like K-Fred
Now tell me what’s a Bowker to do
Drawing walks don’t appeal to the Dunston in you
You gotta operate the easy way
"I pinch hit a bomb today" But you hit it in a sleazy way
Swinging at 58% of pitches? " I gotta get paid,"
Well hey, well that’s the way it is
[Bridge]
[Talking:]
We gotta make a change…
It’s time for us as a team to start makin’ some changes.
Let’s change the catcher to Posey, let’s change the RF to Schierholtz
and let’s change the way the lineup is put together.
You see the old way wasn’t working so it’s on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.
3
And still I see no changes can’t a Giants fan get a little peace
It’s man on second base & no outs and you say Rowand PLEASE
Instead of moving the runner over he pops out to LF
No sacrifice this year? Are you fucking real?
And I ain’t never missed a game I ain’t have to
But now I’m back with the facts givin’ it back to you
Don’t let’em jack you up, back you up,
crack you up and pimp smack you up
You gotta learn to take a walk
they get jealous when they see ya with ya OPS+
But tell Dunston he can’t touch this
I don’t trust this when they try to rush I bust this
That’s the sound of my tool you say it ain’t cool
cheating the game walking? I ain’t no fool
And as long as I get at bats I gotta swing and hack
& I never get to lay back
but I never got to worry ‘bout the pay checks
5 year 60M deal that I signed way back
comin’ back after all these years
hack hack hack hack hack that’s the way it is uhh
[Bridge ’til fade:]
Some things will never change
by jctGamer on Sep 4, 2009 8:14 AM PDT reply actions 10 recs
Holy shit man
that is epic
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
man, I hate rodeo’s! They ruined my childhood
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
IF U DONT LIKE IT YOU CAN GEEET OUT!
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
My mom took me
to the Grand National rodeo at the Cow Palace a few times when I was a young buck. I had a blast. I got to wear my boots and hat.
"A foghorn blowing out wild and cold." -Dire Straits
Well, I went to about 25-35 a year, and it really put a hamper on my young baseball experiences!
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow!
You gotta operate the easy way
“I pinch hit a bomb today” But you hit it in a sleazy way
Swinging at 58% of pitches? " I gotta get paid,"
Well hey, well that’s the way it is
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
wait, I found something. The non-baseball nerd world is just going to get angry and call you a nerd, then tell you how money Edgar Renteria is down the stretch.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
PUSSY
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
OBP is a pussy stat.
HOW ARE THE GIANTS DOING IN R+RBI, HUH?
Oh . . . wait.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
HAH! Was that GRM or Dr B? Oh the memories of flamewars past.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 4, 2009 8:37 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Hokysmokes, I think.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
HE WAS IN ARMY! HE TAKES KICKS TO HIS BALL
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions
GreatGiantsFan is a fan of R+RBI
Hokysmokesbw uses R+RBI-HR
convergent evolution
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Sofa King Mike calls his gf babby in his facebook status. That shit cracks me up.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
My gf and I started doing it, too. After watching Delorean do it. It’s a really funny term of endearment.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I love it when people badmouth peer reviewed advanced metrics and then make up a competing “stat” to argue. It’s juicily stupid.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 4, 2009 8:46 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I see those and add a “I’M SMART AND EVERYONE ELSE IS STUPID” footnote.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Great post
At a time when so many of us are throwing out wOBA and FIP and MLEs, it’s nice to have an argument that’s accessible and written persuasively and with clarity.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 4, 2009 8:36 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
wHOA man, calm down!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Toggle case is Hell’s sentence case.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Listen computer, I’m right there with you. What I’m saying is that those arguments go right over the heads of the uninitiated.
You know I’m one of the most STATS-friendly posters here (and have been for quite some time).
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 4, 2009 8:43 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I like the productive outs vs. the batting average table. By league average, you have about a 6% increased chance of making a productive out over getting a hit. Seems like a really worthless thing to try to do in most situations (not all). Especially if you factor in all the extra benefits of getting a hit (no out is made, runners can advance multiple bases, more runners on, etc.).
Conclusion: Productive outs are almost always stupid.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
ninth inning in a low run environment blah blah blah.
It’s pretty obvious that the teams biggest problem is just making outs.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Trying for a productive out does not preclude the possibility of getting a hit. Things like hitting a fly ball with a runner on third or hitting to the right side with a runner on second may be worthwhile if they reduce the possibility of a non-productive out while having a smaller reduction of the probability of getting a hit.
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.
FREDEMPTION 2009
Stats on a Grant post? Gadzooks!
Seriously, though, after reading a post like this, it reminds me of why Bochy needs to not be the manager next year. If you’re concerned about hurting people’s feelings, you won’t field the best team possible, and you will end up like most of the SF Giants LOLineups.
There’s certainly something to be said for a happy clubhouse, but when that lineup can’t score during a pennant race, you need to make changes in the lineup.
Winning ball games will cure all hurt feelings, methinks.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
/slow clap
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Sep 4, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
DON'T MAKE ME USE STATS!
I WILL IF I HAVE TO!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 8:46 AM PDT reply actions
BUT FIRST CAN YOU TELL ME WHERE TO FIND THE STATS I AM REFERRING TO!
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
RIGHT HERE!!!
/grabs crotch
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Well done and nicely argued
I like that the Mets and Giants top the list of productive outs. NO LEADERSHIP. NOT CLUTCH. LACK 6th TOOL. SCRATCH GAMER DIRT ETC.
Someone will just turn the whole thing on its head, and use the productive outs success% to explain why Boch is manager of the year.
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
ARGHHHHHH
Bochy picked Fred Lewis from among many options to pinch hit for Travis Ishikawa.
“I wanted somebody who wouldn’t chase the slider down,” Bochy said.
MAYBE YOU SHOULD START THIS MAN SINCE HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT WONT CHASE THAT PITCH, EH
That is rich. Pablo and Bengie both chased that pitch. You could’ve pinch hit for them.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions
NO MUST MORE USEFUL OFF BEnCH! CAN HIT HIM IN KEY SPOTS!
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm pretty tired of Lewis
I think this is one of those situations where the stats don’t tell the whole story. He doesn’t seem to have any ability other than walking. This is fine and good until the pitcher actually throws you strikes and you have to hit the ball, which Fred seems to have lost the ability to do.
Yeah, I know he has a great OBP, yada yada yada, but when was the last time he’s done anything to make you think, “Hey, this guy should be given a starting spot?” I have more confidence with Winn from the left side of the plate than Fred right now, and if you’re going to give the starting LF spot to a kid, I’d rather see Bowker than Fred. I can’t say he’s much worse than Velez, but at least Velez has been hitting the ball at least somewhat.
/prepares self to take the full brunt of jprony’s wrath.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d like it if Bochy knew how to use Fred Lewis.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm sorry, did you actually read Grant's post?
He just very convincingly showed that the Giants problems are mostly that they don’t get anyone on base… and you want to cut bait on the one guy other than Pablo with a decent OBP (and, really, the only guy who seems willing to draw a walk once in awhile.) Yadda yadda yadda OBP… really?
His only ability is walks? I don’t know if you realize this but the ability to walk is pretty valuable, especially on a team with no one else who has it.
In addition – his batting average is about average. He has better than average defensive range in LF. He’s, yet again, one of the only players on the whole team who has hit to a league-average level this season.
I agree – I would rather see Bowker, as I think he has similar on-base upside and obviously a much greater power potential. But you shouldn’t want to give up on Lewis because he doesn’t get a hit every single time he comes up (Similar to the POP% thing, where we think they fail every time up when they’re actually very good at it – Fred is hitting .333/.400/.500 as a pinch hitter this year. The amount of shit he gets for the pinch hit at bats where he doesn’t get a hit and the lack of credit he gets for the ones where he does is mind-boggling.)
Ok, there’s my wrath. :)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Frankly, I could use a few less.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I can’t get this damned taste of lemon out of my mouth!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
GREAT line!
(though incorrect…)
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 4, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Is that like the Lemon Party?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
Bad..... sooo bad
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
DOOOO NOOOOTTTT GOOOOOGLE THISSSS
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
LOLOOLLLOLOLOLOO
scarred me for life
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 4, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
IF U DONT GET A RBI YOU MIGHT AS WELL MAKE AN OUT
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
In my mind a walk is just as good as a base hit when nobody’s on, and yea, on this team it’d be incredible if there were more walks. This team would probably be a much better team with more walks… I agree though, it’s too soon to give up on Lewis, consistency for him would be nice
I’m not arguing the value of a walk vs. a hit. Getting on base is just as valuable as getting on base. However, it doesn’t seem like he’s doing either lately.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
really? I’ve felt like he’s been pretty solid lately. It felt like he went 0 for June, but it seemed like he’s been in the middle of some late inning ruckuses in the 2nd half.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Lately?
What lately?
He hasn’t been playing lately.
Unless you consider a random start or a random pinch hit appearance “lately”, then I think you should give him a break.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 4, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
"lately"
is any plate appearance in recent times, PH or start.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
So that's been like 5 PAs, then
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
FOR EVERYONE WHO SAYS YOUR EYES CAN'T LIE WRT OFFENSE
He hit .412/.524/.588 in August.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
BUT WHAT GUUD R STATZ U DONT GET AN AWARD FOAR
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Well you’re right, but he hit the ball hard last night, so he’ll play everyday from here on in.
signed,
Bruce Bochy
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I am with you. You know I am not a fan of his, but on offense there hasn’t been anything to complain about since he broke out of his funk in Colorado like six weeks ago. It actually seems like he is taking less walks than before, but I don’t really give a shit because he is hitting the ball hard and doing it on good pitches.
He should start against RHs. If he goes back to suckage, I want to see what Bowker can do out there. We know what we will get from Winn and Abe
Seriously, all i care about is either a W or L on the record for the giants, i dont care about how he’s been doing lately. But like i said, consistency helps any player
No baseball players are consistent
The absolute best fail more than half the time.
Well
except Barry
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
And Pujols
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
BUT JETERS GUNA B MVP
And that’s why CC’s gonna win the CY!
/Kornheiser is a fucking oaf.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Seriously
CC is 16-7 on a team with the best goddamn offense in baseball, and that’s good enough. Tim
won 17 last year with one of the worst offenses in history, and he had a problem with that. Fucking east coasters
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I know people bag on Jeter
But he’s about to pass Gerhig as the all-time Yankee hits leader. Hearing that this morning kinda blew me away.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Jeter is a damn good player and should finish in the top 5 for MVP this season, ahead of Teixeira.
Obviously, no one can touch Mauer.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
surprising how well he's done...
but I still wouldn’t do it.
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
3000 hits
And Jeter doesn’t seem that “old” to me too.
Probably the face
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
I didn't mean to bag on Jeter
he’s fine, but to say he’s MVP this year is fucking retarded, as is TK, so there ya go.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Whoa whoa whoa....
You leave tk alone…. She’s a valuable member of this community
;-)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
lol oops
forgot about her! Sorry tk!!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Actually
it’s tk lowercase, mr tony is TK uppercase. So there.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
TK = buffoon
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Nah
Pujols’ OBP is still “only” .441.
Bonds, however, did have four seasons where he was over .500 in OBP. (One over .600!)
Yeah I know
just sayin’. It’s really fun to look at Barry’s 04
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
consistency and failure aren’t mutually exclusive.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 4, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
They pretty much are. Streakiness in baseball is at least mostly a myth, at least if by “Player X is streaky” you mean “Player X tends to have longer positive/negative streaks than would be expected by chance.”
don’t some players consistently fail to get on base, say, over the course of a season or a career?
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 4, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
OK, now you're just making things up
Over the past 15 PA’s, his OBP is .400.
Past 25 PA’s: .458.
Past 50 PA’s: .449.
Past 75 PA’s: .440.
Past 100 PA’s: .390.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
unLOLeash the gore
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
tl;dr
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess it’s hard to say that Velez should play over him, but I still think Winn is a better option, at least against RHP. He has a hearty .297/.354/.412 against them this year, and his defense is better.
If we’re talking about the best OF options at this point, I think you’d have to go:
LF Bowker
CF Rowand
RF Winn or Nate
As stated above, Winn still hits above average against RHP, and I think most people just get pissed off that he’s hitting in crucial spots in the order, and that he’s playing against LHP.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Yup
agree w/ your final point. Dude should not ever ever ever EVER play vs LHP
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Fred has hit .294/.373/.457 vs RHP this season, you know.
I don’t take umbrage with suggesting that we might have better options than Fred – I agree with that, I’ve become a big Bowker fan this year and he should be getting more PT.
What I take umbrage with is your argument: the disparaging of Fred’s walk and OBP skills after Grant just wrote a great post showing WHY the Giants’ lack of walks/OBP has been their biggest downfall, remembering only the ABs in which he made an out and being willfully ignorant to the fact that he’s hit quite well since July and has hit especially well in the PH-role.
There are arguments to be made against Fred Lewis. Saying things like:
He doesn’t seem to have any ability other than walking. This is fine and good until the pitcher actually throws you strikes and you have to hit the ball, which Fred seems to have lost the ability to do.
Yeah, I know he has a great OBP, yada yada yada, but when was the last time he’s done anything to make you think, "Hey, this guy should be given a starting spot?"
I can’t say he’s much worse than Velez, but at least Velez has been hitting the ball at least somewhat.
are all, quite frankly, bs.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oprah's Book Club Update
Random House just moved up the publication date of “Fred Lewis is NOT the Problem” by jponry (with INORITE forward by groug) to October 5.
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
At least I know Aadik and bondslegend will buy it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
/searches for pre-order on amazon
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I’ll skim through it at Borders but will re-shelve it and buy a Pearls Before Swine book instead.
"Trust me: If I’m feeling lousy at the plate like that, I’m not just going to walk up there with bases loaded and get a hit because I’m some great clutch hitter." - Mr. F!
comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
when was the last time he’s done anything to make you think, "Hey, this guy should be given a starting spot?"
by the way… why, just on Sunday, when he came off the bench to hit a double (which led to a run scoring) and then, later in the game, fought off a lot of tough pitches from a lefty and eventually got him to throw a mistake (hitting him) after which, hey, four runs scored.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
FRED LEWIS IS THE CAUSE OF CHILDHOOD OBESITY
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
See...
I remember this.
The Fred Lewis haters don’t.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 4, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
More and more, it really does seem to me that the Fred haters remember only the ABs and games in which he screwed up and never the times when he’s successful.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I love fred lewis
and I love that you keep fighting the good fight. YOU GO SISTA
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Really, if he were truly as bad as they said he was, I wouldn’t bother… but he isn’t!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I love that you are the leader of the People’s United Front Against Those Who Deem Fred Lewis a Failure. Love it. I don’t necessarily agree with you all the time in the Lewis debate… but goddamit do I respect you.
by FireBrianSabean on Sep 4, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
PUFATWDFLAF
… has a nice ring to it.
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Don’t you mean the Fred Lewisian United People’s Front?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
or that
FLUPF is indeed a more catchy acronym than PUFATWDFLAF.
by FireBrianSabean on Sep 4, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m glad I let you do all the talking. You articulate it better than I would
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
IDK WTF people's problems are
but there must be SOMETHING that they don’t like, because they KEEP SINGLING HIM OUT when this offense is FUCKING ATROCIOUS and he’s one of the only good players on the team. What the actual hell.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Especially when it’s a player who’s basically been reduced to 4-5 PH appearances a week. He could go 2-5 and it would seem like he wasn’t doing a good job because he made an out 3 times that week!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
whoops I meant to respond to howie
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
BUT STRUCK OUT LOOKING THREE TIMES WITH THE BASES LOADED, AMIRITE?!!!
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
If Lewis isn’t the problem (and i’ve never argued that he is, i don’t understand why he is benched), is it fair to shift all that misplaced wrath to Velez?
Is Velez the problem? I’m not sure he is more of the problem than say Winn, Renteria, Molina or even Rowand.
Shifting the blame to velez seems to be making the same kind of mistake people make when they wrongly blame Lewis.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 4, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Here's why Velez is the problem:
he’s blocking better players when he plays.
Rowand: sucks, but who else would play CF?
Renteria: sucks, but who else would play SS? I suppose I’d rather see Uribe, but whatever
Molina: I fucking hate him, too
Winn: We’re saying the same about him. He blocks better players when he plays.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
because we pay their salaries
and dammit, we can say what we want
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
GAH ROWAND DOESN’T SUCK FOR THE SAME REASONS THAT FRED LEWIS DOESN"T SUCK!
They’re both league average hitters who play league average or slightly better defense!
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Addendum
Rowand: sucks for what he’s being paid.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
With 2.1 WAR, he’s arguably played up to his salary.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Randy Winn can't play center
He’s a third baseman, for crying out loud!
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
/was wrong about Rowand
see, Lewis haters? You can do it too! When you make a moronic statement that you can’t back up, and then someone points out that you’re wrong, ACCEPT IT AND MOVE ON. Sorry, Scott. I wuz wrong
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I wasn’t saying Lewis is THE problem. In fact, he’s certainly towards the end of a long list of problems this team has. I was just trying to point out that people on this site tend to give him more credit than he deserves, when there are better options on this team than him (ie – I would have rather seen Bowker, Nate, or Posey PH last night over Fred)
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Nate did PH and he grounded out to first on the first pitch (or something horrible like that).
I love Nate (see my sig), but I think Fred is just as good an option.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
You're the juggernate bitch?
sounds exciting!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I should put it in quotes. Obviously Juggernate is the Juggernate. Or something.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
Lol i know
I’m just messin w/ you. I saw the comma
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Good-lookin fella
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Natie's ladies?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
/didn’t realize Nate had PH already.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Uh, no it wasn’t, it was definitely a pretty weak ground ball right at Howard.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
If someone has an mlb.tv subscription, they can probably watch the condensed game… the boxscore says, “Groundout, 1B unassisted.”
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Well, I also strongly remember SEEING it as a not very well hit groundball to first.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I suppose you believe everything that has strong and ample evidence supporting it, huh?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Just saw it on OD (saw entire game over again)
You were correct.
It was a chop in front of the plate which Howard caught right before it smacked his package. When I was watching yesterday I only saw the catch at the groin then I took my eye off Howard going to the bag after snagging the ball. Somebody’s gotta fold the laundry.
honkytonkbbw was wrong!!!
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
I was at the game. About 20 rows from 1st base. It was definitely a ground ball to 1st.
You can check gameday out
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
nooo
nobody is giving him more credit than he deserves! Jesus, people are just saying he deserves more credit than he gets.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
IIRC
even jp would rather see bowker.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
It just seems to me that many people here get all bent out of shape that he doesn’t get much playing time, when he really shouldn’t get more than one start per series.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Uhh no
people are mad that Velez is playing.Bowker> Lewis/Nate > Velez.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
What is your justification that the guy with the second-best OBP on the team and the third-best OPS+ should only get one start per series?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Um hello
he’s already said that all he does is walk. Jesus, don’t you people listen to reason?!?!?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
What's also frustrating
He was hitting well for the first part of the season, then went into a slump. He got benched after the slump, which, okay, the Giants have trouble scoring runs, it’s hard to keep throwing someone out there who’s slumping.
Okay, well, he’s NO LONGER SLUMPING. And yet he’s gotten barely more than 1 PA per game in the past month.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
BUT ALL HE DOES IS WALK!!!!
/doesn’t listen to stats saying otherwise
MY EYES DONT LIE!!!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
yeah, hitting .269 is certainly a world-beater. let’s give him LF, hands-down.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Jesus Christ, have you read a single comment so far in this discussion?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
OH MY GOD!
Why do people keep doing this?? Is it just to piss us off? It must be to piss us off, right?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Wow, take it easy.
He was replying to my comment that he isn’t hitting the ball (or at least that’s what it looks like to me).
I’m not saying walks don’t matter. I’m not saying walks are less valuable than hits. I’m just saying that Fred’s value seems to lie more in his ability to walk than to hit. Maybe he’s starting to hit again now (hard to say, since he’s getting about one AB/game), but I’m just saying that for the season, he hasn’t hit the ball much.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
who does hit the ball on this club? Oh yeah, that Sandoval guy.
That’s about it. I think everyone else on this club is below league average. (possible exception ebing our overpaid CF)
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Winn is hitting better than him, which I guess is my main point. That, and if Bowker can translate his walk % to the majors, he will probably be a better LF option than Fred.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Winn is the worst hitting of all our OF’s this year, isn’t he?
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Wut? Winn is not hitting better than Fred.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
vs. RHP, yeah.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Uh
I already posted the stats in here and Fred is hitting better than Winn vs RHP.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
.294/.374/.457 for Fred
.297/.354/.412 for Randy
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
So you’re saying that Randy’s better batting average wins out?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
I imagine he’s going to say “higher batting average, better defense”
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
lol 3 points of BA
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
the defensive point is valid, sure. However, I didn’t know about the slugging disparity, and I sure as heck don’t know if the defense makes up for it. I leave that to the people that know advanced stats.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
It seems like you’ve made some statements about Fred in this discussion without actually looking them up to make sure they were true. It would do your argument better if you checked to make sure that Fred really was slumping lately or that Fred really was hitting worse against RHP before stating that to be teh truth.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
you’re probably right, but to be fair, I did glance at his game logs, and there’s a lot of 0-1’s, so being unable to watch or listen to games myself, I thought it fair to assume his slump had continued from mid summer.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait Winn is hitting better than who? If the answer is not Renteria, then you are wrong.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
He was poking a bit of fun at your arguments the whole thread.
And I don’t know how you can say “It’s hard to say” that he’s hitting better when we’ve showed you stats that show that, yes, he is hitting quite a bit better.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Can you just admit that maybe you were wrong here?
God, I’m so sick of people making these fucking moronic (not calling YOU a moron, saying your POSITION is moronic) arguments. Nobody here is saying he should get the job full time for the love of God! Quit saying htat! Noboy here is saying that! Again: NOBODY HERE IS SAYING FRED LEWIS IS SOOO GREAT HE SHOULD START EVERY DAY.
He’s better than you give him credit for, and he’s one of the best guys on the team at getting on base! If you don’t understand that, then there’s nothing more to say on the matter.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I'm not saying he's not getting on base
But (again) where would you play him? In left over Bowker? In right field or center? His poor defense would seem to negate his OBP in those OF spots.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
…and Bowker is the answer on defense? Is that what you are honestly arguing?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
But the option right now isn’t Lewis or Bowker.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
well I thought the whole discussion was based on our own theoretical “what would you do” mantra. If that’s the case, for me at least, it’s Fred vs. Bowker in left.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, the whole discussion seemed to start with you saying you were “tired” of Fred in all iterations,
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
yeah, which I concede was wrong.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
/needless fred lewis discussion ended!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Good grief. Why would you even reply on this thread without reading any of the original post or any of the comments?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I understand Grant's points
Maybe you ought to read the rest of my comments before overexaggerating my argument.
I wasn’t saying Lewis is THE problem. In fact, he’s certainly towards the end of a long list of problems this team has. I was just trying to point out that people on this site tend to give him more credit than he deserves, when there are better options on this team than him (ie – I would have rather seen Bowker, Nate, or Posey PH last night over Fred)
And that would be my OF against LHP, probably. I still think Winn needs to be in there against RHP. [referring to Fred/Rowand/Bowker]
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
If you come back with a BUT HIS BATTING AVERAGE IS ONLY .269! after a long discussion about this whole thing, then yeah, you’re gonna kind of invalidate any reasonable things you’ve said.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
But I wasn’t arguing that he shouldn’t play based on his average. I was using his average to point out that he hasn’t hit the ball as well this season.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I love this so much
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Which makes no sense since pretty much everyone else on the team is slumping, but still getting tons of PA’s.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
/Velez hits leadoff
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Well...
It seems to me like Fred’s only reasonable outfield spot is in left, wouldn’t you say? It would seem to hide most of his defensive flaws the best. If you assume Rowand plays center, and Winn plays right (because of his ability to handle the brick wall so well), then you’re left with Bowker, Velez, or Lewis to play left. I don’t condone Velez over Lewis, but I do think Bowker is the better option.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, I’d personally prefer Lewis-Rowand-Bowker (or Schierholtz), but that’s fair enough.
That said, you really aren’t giving Fred enough credit.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
That's probably true
And that would be my OF against LHP, probably. I still think Winn needs to be in there against RHP.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
That would be your OF against LHP?
Mine would be
Torres-Rowand-Schierholtz
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
AWTC
EXCEPT LEFTEES CANT HIT LEFTEES DUH
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Fred Lewis...
Is done with this organization.
I’m pretty sure he won’t be back next year. Frandsen too. Eugenio Velez has all but sewn up his 2010 spot hough, just hopefully not as a starter
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure Velez is going to be handed the LF and leadoff job out of spring training.
I’ll never understand why Fred is so deep in the doghouse, but what can you do?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Theory
Dunston and co. preach the aggressiveness so when Fred goes up there and takes pitches it could make him seem unreceptive to coaching, etc., when really, he just knows not to drink the Kool-Aid.
He really is the most selective hitter on this club (pre-Posey) and the other guys that have some moticrum of patience are all established veterans
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, also
There was all the talk of him being a more aggressive POWER HITTER this year and that obviously has not happened.
He’s been about the same player he was last year, which was apparently fine and worthy of a starting spot, no one has really stepped up and outplayed him and yet…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
RUTHLESS AGGRESSION!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
It’s a shame, I don’t consider myself a huge FLew fan, but it’s fairly undeniable that on this team he’s our 3rd or 4th besth hitter
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
There was also something either Baggs or Hank wrote about Fred not being able to admit mistakes/receive criticism.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
You do realize that Fred is hitting better than Nate and that it’s not even close, right?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
It's actually pretty close...
…in fact Nate was at or slightly above Fred less than two weeks ago. The current difference is entirely from Nate’s slump in the last 8 games he’s played.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
But that slump is part of Nate’s talent level. I mean, if you want to discount that, then why not discount Fred’s slump earlier in the year? Fred’s hitting better for the year, and he’s hitting better right now. I really don’t see an argument about this.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
I'm not discounting it...
…except to the extent that saying that “it’s not even close” when the difference amounts to 8 games worth of ABs seems wrong to me.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
The nice thing about hating a player is that you have roughly 65% of his at bats to can the crap out of him, and only about 35% of his at bats where you have to STFU.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
yup
I think you, I, bondslegend, and Natto make up the Fred Lewis fan club here.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
Well, the "you" refers to her..
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I’m here…. even though I picked Nate over Fred in one of Grant’s polls earlier this year, since I thought Nate had a higher upside (which I still think he does, yet he’s probably never going to come close to it)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
I’m a silent bandwagoner.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I spent a lot of time yesterday trying to explain to my two friends about why Fred Lewis should be starting over Eugenio Velez. Then of course Velez leads off the game with a HR and Fred makes the last out with the tying run on third.
I also explained to these guys that Bochy was an idiot for pinch hitting Bengie against the D-Backs a few weeks ago and then he went out and hit the go-ahead HR.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
I think Molina failed the next night as a pinch hitter though....
But man, when lightning strikes, it’s hard to forget it.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Can you explain to them why Nuekom is an idiot for not extending Sabes already?
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
What you need to do is to keep explaining to your friends why players are bad and stop explaining to your friends why players are good.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I want to join this club. To whom do I pay my dues?
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.
FREDEMPTION 2009
For 50 cents, you get an awesome badge. For a dollar, you get a pair of Fred replica shades.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
/writes $1.50 check to jponry
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.
FREDEMPTION 2009
You're getting ripped off.
Join the Velez @ 2nd Fan Club ($1.25) and get a free Velez Replica Mitt:
by younghutch on Sep 4, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Signed?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
lol
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
How much for the bubbahead?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
FREE BUBBAHEAD IF YOU SIGN UP NOW
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I’M IN THIS THING
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 4, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I've had enough of Lewis, personally
I think this is one of those situations where the stats don’t tell the whole story. He doesn’t seem to have any ability other than walking. This is fine and good until the pitcher actually throws you strikes and you have to hit the ball, which Fred seems to have lost the ability to do.
Yeah, I know he has a great OBP, yada yada yada, but when was the last time he’s done anything to make you think, “Hey, this guy should be given a starting spot?” I have more confidence with Winn from the left side of the plate than Fred right now, and if you’re going to give the starting LF spot to a kid, I’d rather see Bowker than Fred. I can’t say he’s much worse than Velez, but at least Velez has been hitting the ball at least somewhat.
/prepares self to take the full brunt of jprony’s wrath.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions
UnleashTheGore, the poster so nice you post it twice!
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
whoops :-/
I swear i cancelled the first post. Damn delayed posting.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
/drops two pennies on the table
A good 4th outfielder on most teams. On this team, if they insist on not trying Bowker, he should be playing LF & leading off. At the very least against RHP.
Where’s my change?
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
1990's PEDRO IS BACK! LET YOUR SOUL GLO!!!
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
lol
I’ve seen that in several different places. Of course, no regard is given to the disparity in lineups faced.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
PEDRO SHUTS DOWN TRIPLE-A OFFENSE, HERO. TIM SHUTS DOWN DEFENDING CHAMPS, CHUMP.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Pedro: 7 Ks, tim 11 Ks
MLB.com MENTIONS THAT FUCKING FACT AND STILL SAYS LINCECUM WAS “OUT DUELED” DESPITE GIVING UP FEWER HITS AND GETTING MORE FUCKING KS AND ONLY GIVING UP 2 FUCKING RUNS YOU FUCKING IDIOTS.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Walter Johnson probably would have lost that game.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Walter Johnson would have hit two dingerz to win it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
All through baseball he was loved and respected
Was there bitterness in Walter Johnson? Well, it was never detected.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
See,
and I know you’re not serious, but this is why I don’t read other people’s “analysis” or watch ESPN or MLBN anymore. Because they’re full of fucking morons who make arguments like this because they’re too ignorant and stupid to think for 5 goddamn seconds about what ACTUALLY happened, rather than just the end result.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
By the way, I can’t stop thinking about how much better the Giants offense could be next year if they made the right moves. Not even anything gigantic (though I wouldn’t say no to a trade for a shortstop…)
I’m basically at the point where I never want to see Molina in a Giants uniform again – like, a week ago, I was ok with offering arb and running the risk that he’d accept, but now I don’t even want that. Same with Winn, though he’s probably not as much of a risk to get a ton of cash in arbitration. There are just really obvious and huge upgrades right there in the system for both of those players.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Replace Bengie with Buster.
Replace Winn/Velez with Bowker/Lewis/Torres/Schierholtz.
Re-sign Freddy Sanchez or sign Orlando Hudson.
.
.
.
.
Trade for Jose Reyes or Hanley Ramirez :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Reyes might be available; the Mets are sick of his injuries, and obviously need to retool. We’d have to give up a lot, though. I think they’ll resign Freddy. A DP combo of Reyes/Sanchez would be awesome, the 50 games or so they’re both healthy.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4ew-fwu2XT2R6BFbZ5C_Ww
Makes about 15 mil over the next 2 years, though it doesn’t appear that he’ll be a free agent at the end of that (arbitration?).
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Have to think so. And they’d want more than just Madbum. i’d make that deal, though.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
uhhhhh, no thanks
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
So then what do you do with Renteria?
$9M utility player? Or do you put him at 2B and let Sanchez walk?
9 M utility player or just cut bait
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
God i hate this team
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
bondslegend = Xanthan?
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
*short circuit noises*
STFU
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
But none of this is going to happen
Love the fantasy life, but here’s the thing; Sabes doesn’t think SS is a problem, betcha anything. He doesn’t see Rent as ‘worst hitting SS in baseball.’ He sees him as ‘gritty vet, playing through injuries, gonna bounce back and be great again after surgery and rehab.’
BTW, i have a little historical perspective which might be of interest. For 8 years, my age 19-27 years, the Giants starting SS EVERY YEAR was Johnnie LeMaster. So I can live with Rent in a two year deal.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I doubt many of us think that any of this will actually happen, but it’s still fun and interesting to discuss what should.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
No, sorry, of course that’s true. It is fun to fantasize.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I wanna be married and have 100 kids so I can have 100 friends, and no one can say no to being my friend.
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
sad micheal is sad
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Melissa Hudson: Did you get married?
Michael Scott: Uh, no…
Abby: Why not?
Michael Scott: Uh, it just never happened.
Sasha: So, do you have any kids?
Michael Scott: Uh, nope.
Jake Palmer: Do you have a girlfriend?
Michael Scott: I do ok.
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
There have been some people speculating on a “dead cat bounce” for Edgar next year…
…but shouldn’t this year have been his dead cat bounce? :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Basically, old dude has a terrible season and everyone thinks he’s done – he comes back the next year, sees an improvement in BABIP for one last year and hits better.
But Rent was already terrible last year, so…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I never understood the renteria thing
and this isn’t hindsight. He’s been terrible for like 5 straight years (yes, exaggeration). I never got how it would be worth it to give him 9 m/year
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Edgar is hitting .359 vs Dodgers this year.
If you’re going to be outstanding against one team, that’s the one to beat.
MMMM Nachos
I had a ginormous plate of chili cheese supreme nachos yesterday, with 3 other people. Heartburn heaven
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Plus he's our enforcer!
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
Fine with me. I think it’d be cool to ditch Torres, and sign Mike Cameron. It wouldn’t alleviate the logjam in the OF, but it’d be nice to have an OF who plays great D and can hit righties and lefties.
I don’t know how others feel about this, but I would trade Mad Bum for Reyes in a second (even though Reyes is only controlled for two more years).
I am welcome to having my mind changed by the stats-type people, though.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
NFW
Trading Alderson and Madbum would be fucking disaster IMO. I know SS is a glaring priority, but wow. I can’t imagine losing those 2 in the span of 2 years.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I don’t think Mike Cameron is that great anymore for the money he is being paid. Maybe he just hates Milwaukee, or maybe his age is catching up with him, but I don’t see him as a difference maker anymore. I think Bobby Abreu would be much cheaper and put up the same or better stats.
That being said, I wouldn’t want to see either of them make $6+ million/season when that money could go towards trying to lure Matt Holliday, Jason Bay, etc.
He’s got a 111 OPS+ this year…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Did you read something, or is that based on his declining steals?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I'd say his legs are just fine
He still plays gread D, but he does have a lot of those dreaded Ks. That’s nothing new for him.
Cameron’s highest OPS+ in the last three years is 111 and is making $10 mil
Abreu’s lowest OPS+ in the last three years is 113 and is making $5 mil
Just think Abreu is a better value and younger. (Would still like to see that money put towards someone younger and better, but they may be too expensive)
Abreu is a bad corner OF, and Cameron is a good CF. That’s a huge difference. Just comparing their offensive stats is misleading.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Pretty much this
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
But comparing their salaries is not misleading. With 12 million invested in CF already for next year, would the Giants rather pay that much for a second one and move Rowand to LF? Or invest far less than that and get a guy that is really a corner outfielder? Abreu was a very good right fielder until a couple years ago. I would imagine he could play left field @ AT&T well enough and save them millions of dollars
(My vote is still for getting someong else, but Mike Cameron isn’t worth the money he makes so I am throwing out cheaper options)
Cameron plays a spectacular CF, while Abreu plays a sucky RF. It makes all the difference in the world.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
REYES FOR SADOWSKI
GITTURDUNN SABEAN
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Thing is, we have to offer Bengie arb for him to be a Type A FA. Worth the gamble, especially if we make it clear he’s coming back as Posey’s backup. I think he’d go FA, and i think there are teams who’d sign him; bad teams with young pitchers they want a vet to work with. KC comes to mind. Winn’s gone either way; he might even retire, as will, surely, Aurilia.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Moves...
Like Bowkermania and Buster Time.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 4, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Winn’s not gonna be a Type A FA, is he?
If not, no need to offer him arb. Giants already have enough fringey outfielders.
Type B
which means that the draft pick wouldn’t keep teams from signing him
…but he might not get that much attention after hitting, what, .260/.310/.360 this year? And that arb would be a cool guaranteed $3 mil at least probably…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yeah.
Pass. I think he’ll probably retire, TBH.
LOL!
Like he’ll go from hitting 5th in a playoff caliber lineup to retiring in one year!
/cry
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
From our standpoint, it doesn’t matter if he retires or not. We just don’t resign him. We don’t offer arb, we don’t resign, we just thank him for all he’s meant to the org and ask if he’s interested in coaching. Same as Richie. Who knows, maybe someone signs him, or not.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I would like to see Winn as an OF instructor in the minors. After I read yesterday that he actually has a plus arm according to the defensive metrics, I was like, man, he really must do everything just right, because he does NOT have a strong arm.
Everything i’’ve read says he’s a good guy, great clubhouse guy. In interviews, he seems really bright. He’d be an excellent coach, maybe like a roving minor league instructor. He seems like a guy who got everything out of his talent he could. Same with Richie, who i think would also make a good coach.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I love Winn
he’s just not very good anymore. I have a hard time being as angry with him as I am with Molina, because Winn KNOWS he’s not very good anymore.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
yea
for some crazy reason, Molina actually thinks he’s a great player. Not just good, but a GREAT player, when in reality, he is fucking awful.
The reason Molina thinks he's a great player...
The Giants front office, the San Francisco MSM and the Giants’ casual fans all think he’s a great player
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
So true. When Bochy pinch hit him for Nate Sunday, I was totally grumbling away to myself, but I was the only one in the park doing that. Everyone else was cheering like crazy for Bengie. That just made me angrier.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
I wouldn't cheer him
but I also wouldn’t boo him. But then again, I never boo.
I don’t boo my own team, either. But, I knew he was going to K (which he did), and I was so frustrated. I certainly wasn’t going to cheer the move to PH an injured Molina for a healthy Schierholtz (or a multitude of other guys).
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
bingo
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
He never was great, either.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
and I know people like to say "but he plays catcher'!
I would think we would be able to get MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better production from catcher than what Molina has given us if we did something like a platoon between Ronny Paulino and somebody else.
He did hit ok for a catcher his first two years here, but it’s really not the case anymore. Ronny Paulino probably would have been a more productive hitter, overall, this year. (And he would have been a pretty good stopgap for the beginning of 2010 if they didn’t want to start Buster right away.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
He pretty much sucked in 2006, and he is slightly worse now.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
There is absolutely nothing in Rich Aurilia's skill set or approach that I want him teaching to young guys.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
That’s one way to look at it. The historic rotation is the only reason that the rotation is getting wasted, though. We expected the offense to be bad, and was supposed to be bad, but the pitching coming into place exactly the way it has has been a big surprise.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
LF: Velez
SS: Renteria
RF: Winn
C: Bengie
2B: Uribe
CF: Richie
1B: Garko
CF: Rowand
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Whoops, Richie at 3rd
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I was about to say...
“Hey, I see what you did!”
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 4, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions
too many RHHs, the rule is you need to start a veteran lefty wherever you can except where you only have young guys, then you play RHHs.
by sweetjuxtapose on Sep 4, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
LOLionel Richie
"A foghorn blowing out wild and cold." -Dire Straits
by FriscoJoe on Sep 4, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 11 recs
quality job.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
OH MY DAD
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
wrong, Garko's a Righty! CAN'T DO THAT AGAINST LHP BECAUSE OF OUTS.
by sweetjuxtapose on Sep 4, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Richie and Rownads together couldn’t cover CF.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
i'm going with...
Velez – LF
Renteria – SS
Sandoval – 3B
Molina – C
Winn – RF
Uribe – 2B
Rowand – CF
Ishikawa – 1B
by sweetjuxtapose on Sep 4, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Bochy does like to use the exact same lineup when it failed the first time.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
The definition of insanity rears its ugly head once again.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, switch Ishikawa and Rowand, and it’s basically the failineup of the last two losses.
I liked that lineup without Velez, but no way does that every happen again.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
WHO WILL HIT CLUTCH?! NEEDS MORE AURILIWINNDUNSTON!
by sweetjuxtapose on Sep 4, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I actually think Bowker or Fred might start over Randy tonight.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
What I want to see
LF Lewis
RF Bowker
C Posey
3B Sandoval
CF Rowand
2B Uribe
1B Ishikawa
SS Renteria
Man, remember when Bochy finally realized Renteria sucks this year and started hitting him 8th? That was cool
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I could deal with Nate instead of Bowker, just for the D, but basically this.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I know, it hurts
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Stop giving us hope and then having Bochy rip it out.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
And then imagine it with Sanchez at 2B, and Uribe at SS. Isn’t it a grand fantasy?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Then imagine it with Sanchez at 2B and Reyes at SS…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
OK, I am getting raw and sore from all of this rosterbation. I need to stop.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Oh man you gotta have some pecan pie
it will change your life
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I didn’t have pecan pie until I was in college because I thought it looked gross. Man, it’s delicious.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
pumpkin > other pie
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
PUMPKIN OWNS EVERYTHING, Pumpkin pancakes, cookies, muffins, scones, bread, pumpkins all like fuck this shit
The only coffee I drink is the pumpkin spice things Starbucks makes toward the end of the year. Oh man, so good.
They just started offering them at the local Starbucks again… I really want to try it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Not the only good thing
but it is the best thing
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
two shots of espresso over ice, add half n half to taste. It’s the only thing that a barista can’t screw up.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
I like the pumpkin spice too but Starbucks coffee is the suck! Local coffee shops FTW!!
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
I’m pretty coffe ignorant. Like I said, I just don’t drink the stuff. If I knew of other places that had pumpkin spice drink things better than Starbuck I would go there. Suggestions?
Also, I’ve always thought your avatar is Tom Morello but havn’t ever looked because I don’t want to be disappointed if it isn’t.
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
/throws self down the stairs
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
I’ll have to check this out at home. For some reason my company doesn’t think that youtube is work related.
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
that’s fantastic!
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 4, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Bitter
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
I agree
I still kind of like it though, but Peets is better
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Starbucks is good for: when you’re in some dumbass town or stuck at some podunk airport and you just want a consistent cuppa NW style coffee.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
I like SBux, you just have to know its limitations (EVERYTHING IS FRED LEWIS).
They put me through college, for one thing.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
I will!
I have some in my fridge! God I love pecan pie
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Brownies!
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
WALRUS MAN SAID THIS
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
LOL!
This took a little while to sink in.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
you dropped this:
NERDS!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Stop talking about stats all the time you nerd!
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
"The Giants need to learn how to get clutch hits"
Yeah…. (click on the Clutch tab on the right side)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Well that lineup did SO well last night, so. . .
Velez CF
Lewis LF
Panda 3b
BM C
Schierholtz RF
Uribe 2b
Ishi 1B
Rent SS
I have a rich fantasy life
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
Well . . .
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
come on everyone! Cheer up.
I predict we sweep Milwaukee and get back home to overtake Colorado within 10 days. There’s no place like home, there’s no place like home..
Who’s with me?!
Not a pig.
Home is good.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
we just lost 2 out of 3 games when we held the opposition to 3 runs total. what gives you the confidence that we will sweep Milwaukee, a place that the Giants have never played well?
Hey, I didn’t know those existed here.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
One of these?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
LOL NON REPLY FAIL
you replied to the right post
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
REPLY FAIL FAIL
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
We’ll win tonight, though. It’s Zito time, and this is the new and improved Barry Zito
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
By the way, if anyone had told you a month ago that we’d lose a series in Philly where our pitchers only gave up 3 runs, and that between Sanchez, Lincecum and Brad Penny starts, Penny would be the one to throw a shutout….
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
lol
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
ZEET ZEET ZEET
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
There ya go!
What’s baseball without hope?! I’ve got tickets for the Saturday game against the Dodgers next weekend and I WILL be holding a sign up that reads, “WE’RE IN THIS THING!”.
Not a pig.
That's gona look stupid
when we’re 6 out
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
He never said what he means by “this thing”…
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
There are no girls on the internet
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Are there any women here today?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Prepare to get a fair amount of attention that you might not want...
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
Outstanding post
Interesting thing I noticed: if you compare the table for runs per game to the table OBP, there’s a VERY strong correlation. Seven of the eight teams that are above league average in runs/game are also above league average in OBP.
Now, it’s patently obvious that one is a function of the other. Except, of course, if you’re the San Francisco Giants.
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
Or
anyone who covers baseball in a mainstream capacity. Or any manager in the league.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Further proof Sabean needs to go. He continues to just make poor, short sighted decisions.
Sigh.
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
not necessarily. if anything, this move tells me that the FO have already made up their mind that Posey is the opening day catcher next year.
His arb clock starting 30 days early is meaningless if Posey starts out next year on the opening day roster. And, quite frankly, that gives us the best chance to win next year.
I don’t love the move, but I don’t mind the move. I want him to play, yes, but calling him up right now, regardless of whether he plays or not, gives me hope for next year.
Youre hopes will be crushed by Borky ans Sabey
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
To start his arb clock early
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
It’s just bad management. You’re not getting the absolute most out of your resources.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
mmk… this is sounding like Business Management 303, am i missing something here when it comes to understanding this thing called arbitration? nobody talked about it with any other player coming up from the minors
He's just going to be eligible to make more money sooner now
and it makes no sense to do that if you’re not going to play the guy
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
No, he gets to play extra 30 days this season
Team still has control over him for 6 years.
He is not eligible for super 2 status because of insufficient # of games on the active roster.
The only way this move backfires is if Posey struggles so much next year, he is optioned back to AAA (a la J J Hardy style) and extra 30 days is tacked onto his service time from this year.
If that happens, then we are fucked anyway.
Oh
admittedly, I don’t understand it very well but I thought I knew this one. i’ll just sit over here in the corner and yell a about Fred Lewis some more
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
most of our minor league players suck, that’s why. The odds of most of these guys still being with this organization in 4 years is slim, Posey on the other hand, is clearly someone with the chance to be special.
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
because the difference between calling him up now vs May 2010 is an extra year of his services. Unless you think the splinters his ass will get on the bench is worth a year of Posey.
Even if you lock him up to a deal eventually, it still matters. It’s about leverage in negotiations. It’s already questionable making the move even if you do play him, but it’s at least defensible given the playoff run. Without playing him though, it’s just ridiculously stupid
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
"ridiculously stupid"
Brian Sabean’s middle name
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I just hope Nuekom is smart enough to evaluate a GM on more than a W-L record. Sadly, I just don’t see anyway the Sabean regime ends anytime soon
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Yea i understand that now, so basically what bondslegend said, he’ll get more money now. It’s not our money so whatever. I’m worrying about the now rather than the future, we can’t look at the future right now as fans. But i totally agree that they should play him this year sometime, because bringing him up to have him do nothing is not too smart at all.
It’s not our money, but the Giants don’t have unlimited resources.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Money doesnt grow on trees, yea i know, but i hate thinking too far into the future because you tend to lose sight of what’s going on right now, and that’s a playoff run
the hell if i know, all i’m saying is that i really don’t even care, i just want to see this team win
I don’t think anyone here is saying “I don’t want to see the team win”. But calling up Posey now is just stupid since it will seemingly no forseeable bearing on our odds of winning. If he did, it’s a different story
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
And we don’t even know if he’ll start or play at all, so we don’t know if he’ll contribute to anything yet
Well Bochy’s quotes seem to suggest he might get a start or two, but that’s it. To me, it’s starting or bust on this move
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha, i’ll never trust anything quoted in the newspaper, they’re telling the truth ALL the time, right?
It’s true the newspaper doesn’t tell the truth but it seems to “lie” a lot more often when talking about vets sitting than it does about rookies playing.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
When he’s talking about rookies not getting playing time? Yes, I do think he’s telling the truth.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Dude
we’ve seen it happen all year. Where have you been?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Ok, when it’s the end of the season and Posey has gotten 2 starts and 25 AB, then we can talk.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Jesus
what, exactly, in bochy’s past makes you think he will suddenly change the way he does things? Give me something you’re basing your argument on, because I’ve got about 15 years of Bochy playing veterans over young guys to go on. You’ve got….nothing to go on.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
apparently nothing, i’m just a fan of the San Francisco Giants, who cares about nothing more than seeing this team play hard and win some ball games… oops
Oh please
don’t play that card, like all of us aren’t fans. C’mon. It’s obvious that bochy will keep playing moina, even though that’s the wrong move. Stating that obvious fact doesn’t make us bad fans. It makes us realists
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Dude, what do you want me to say? yes, Bochy sucks and is always going to play the vets? Yes i’m a realist, and try to never put on some of those rose colored glasses. Molina will start regardless, if not, then it’s Whiteside. I never said anything about bad fans by the way, i wouldn’t be coming here to post my opinions, and spark up conversations if you guys were bad fans
I just think it’s ridiculous that you said we’ll have to wait and see what happens before we talk about it. We already have seen what happens..
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
But you’re very right with Bochy, i’m just hoping and wishing that what i say is wrong, and that Posey will play a few, by the way, Crabtree is making me a little depressed
YOURE not ridiculous
what you SAID was ridiculous. Happens to me all the time. Wait…
Anyways, Crabs will sign, catch TDs. Always has been my position, and it will happen.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Haha!
But yea i hope he does, it was speculated around Labor day, but i guess now it won’t even happen for a while, and might not be there for opening day
Why can't it happen around labor day?
I see no reason he’d want to lose actual money.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I don't think it's that simple
First of all, one of the things we’ve seen is that what Bochy says and what he does are two very different things.
Second, he’s given a lot of playing time to several young guys this year (Burriss, Ishikawa) when he could have sat them for vets (Uribe, Aurilia). He showed a lot more patience than I had come to expect.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
/bats molina cleanup again
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Well, he’s yet to play since being up and Molina has been our cleanup hitter all year…hmmm, you know, I think you’re aright. Boch is going to bench Molina from here on out even though he’s never so much as moved him out of the 4 spot this year
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s been 2 days, jeeze, let’s just wait and see what happens, THEN you can criticize what i said on trusting what Bochy says
LOL ok
it’s not changing. WTF man.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I don’t think too many people would have aproblem with it if Posey starts getting some good playing time.
Yes, Posey sitting on the bench is helping our playoff run a lot.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
you clearly didn’t see how well he warmed Lincecum up between innings when Molina had to strap on his gear
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
no, you miss the point.
Calling up Posey now = Posey eligible to be a FA in 2015. Calling him up early next year means he’s a FA in 2016.
You should only be willing to give up that 2016 year if you think between now and May 2010 he is going to legitimately help this team. It seems like at this stage he’s helping the team as much as Steve Holm is
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Why is xanthan in this picture?
Still in despair.
"Use the stencil! Do it!"
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on Sep 4, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
That's why I hate this team so much
They have succeeded in acquiring the hardest thing to find (young pitching), but cannot solve or even comprehend the simplest problem.
Their problems are so obvious, have been so for years, and I just want to punch Brian Sabean and Bruce Bochy in the face.
/trades pitching for injured, old players
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs