What's Wrong With the Giants Offense? Oh, A Couple of Things...
by Grant on Sep 4, 2009 7:26 AM PDT
1508 comments
This post isn't for most of you. About 99% know all of this. But if you would kindly alert the non-baseball nerd world to some of these points, that'd be just swell.
After the Giants' offense failed again, people were all abuzz about Edgar Renteria's at-bat in the sixth inning. "Edgar should have bunted! Edgar should have given himself up to hit one to the right side! The Giants can't afford not to do The Little Things. This is why the Giants lost!"
This is dangerous, dangerous thinking. It puts the blame on an inability to make outs the right way. It shifts the blame away from the real culprit, which is an inability to avoid outs. The Giants don't score runs. For example...
| Tm | R/G ▾ |
|---|---|
| PHI | 5.12 |
| COL | 5.02 |
| MIL | 4.86 |
| LAD | 4.78 |
| FLA | 4.71 |
| ATL | 4.56 |
| ARI | 4.54 |
| STL | 4.50 |
| WSN | 4.47 |
| LgAvg | 4.45 |
| CHC | 4.41 |
| NYM | 4.19 |
| HOU | 4.09 |
| PIT | 4.07 |
| CIN | 4.03 |
| SFG | 4.02 |
| SDP | 3.91 |
| 4.45 | |
| Tm | BA ▾ |
|---|---|
| LAD | .273 |
| NYM | .268 |
| FLA | .266 |
| ATL | .266 |
| HOU | .263 |
| WSN | .262 |
| MIL | .262 |
| COL | .262 |
| STL | .261 |
| LgAvg | .259 |
| SFG | .259 |
| PHI | .258 |
| PIT | .254 |
| CHC | .254 |
| ARI | .254 |
| CIN | .244 |
| SDP | .242 |
| .259 |
Oh. So they're actually a league-average team when it comes to batting average. Well, that doesn't prove anything. If they could just do the little things and move runners over, scoring with a runner on third and less than two outs, they could take advantage of...
| PrdOut | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Tm | Opp | Suc | % ▾ |
| HOU | 484 | 173 | 36% |
| NYM | 519 | 181 | 35% |
| SFG | 498 | 171 | 34% |
| FLA | 504 | 170 | 34% |
| COL | 520 | 177 | 34% |
| CIN | 507 | 174 | 34% |
| MIL | 487 | 162 | 33% |
| LAD | 555 | 183 | 33% |
| ATL | 470 | 157 | 33% |
| LgAvg | 502 | 161 | 32% |
| STL | 489 | 157 | 32% |
| PHI | 463 | 139 | 30% |
| SDP | 500 | 147 | 29% |
| PIT | 475 | 140 | 29% |
| ARI | 516 | 152 | 29% |
| WSN | 534 | 152 | 28% |
| CHC | 509 | 134 | 26% |
| 8030 | 2569 | 32% | |
PrdOut is short for "productive outs", defined as one of three events: 1) a successful sacrifice for a pitcher with one out, 2) advancing any runner with none out, and 3) Driving in a base runner with the second out of an inning. And the Giants are at the top of the league. They can do the little things with the best of them. They move runners over as much as any team in the league.
It feels like they constantly fail, though, because every runner-on-third, one out situation feels like it will be the only chance for the Giants to score. And we remember those failed opportunities at the end of the game. They sting. But those missed chances happen to every team.
The problem isn't productive outs. The problem is outs. Every hitter who isn't Pablo Sandoval or Fred Lewis makes more outs than the average hitter. Bengie Molina has the second-worst on-base percentage in the NL. Even worse, when he's on base, he isn't able to score from second on a single, or from first on a double. Randy Winn has the second-worst on-base percentage among NL right fielders. Even worse, these two players are routinely given spots of honor in the batting order, spots that maximize RBI opportunities and guarantee more plate appearances over the course of a season.
This is to say nothing of their lack of power, but there isn't a magic cleanup hitter waiting to spring forth and hit 20 September home runs. There are two hitters, though, who have a good chance at improving the Giants' on-base woes. John Bowker had a .451 on-base percentage in AAA. Lop off 100 points from that total if you think that's what the jump up to the majors will do to his numbers -- that's a bit of a overreaction, but do it if it makes you feel better -- and Bowker would still have the third-best on-base percentage on the team. And we know he can hit for a little power at the major league level.
Buster Posey had a .416 on-base percentage over two minor league levels. That would probably dip a bit in the majors, but he wouldn't be the second-worst outmaker in the league. Even if he were that bad, if his on-base percentage were to drop 150 points in the majors to match Molina's, at least he can make it home from second on a triple. And it isn't as if he's wearing an oven mitt on the field and telling the pitchers to throw knuckleballs, dropsy-dos, and slowballs. He's a freaking catcher. He isn't going to be that much worse than Molina.
But the Giants don't care about minor league performances. Can you imagine a GM saying, "Ah, I have no idea what Ruben Rivera did last year. Don't know his batting average. Don't know how many home runs he hit. I just know he has all the tools, and he looked good when I watched him play, so he'll be the cleanup hitter when the season starts"? Fired on the spot. Ignoring minor league performances is just as archaic. For every Todd Linden or Mike Marshall who sputtered after big minor league seasons, there are ten players who carried their success over from the high minors. You take Todd Linden as your example of AAA-to-MLB futility. I'll take every good hitter in the majors as an example that minor league stats mean something, with the exception of Hanley Ramirez, who didn't do a lot of anything in AAA.
Is it a risk to start young, unproven players in a playoff push? Absolultely. Imagine what would happen if they were the worst hitters in baseball. Why, they'd be replacing some of the worst hitters in baseball. What kind of Folgers crystals switcheroo madness that would be. And the Giants wouldn't score runs. Not sure where the risk is.
This has zero chance of happening. There's no way that Bowker or Posey will get any starts down the stretch. But if this post stops someone from saying "The Giants need a hitting coach who helps with the little things!", I'll sleep better. This is the best pitching staff we'll probably ever see. The people in charge of the offense were gifted one of the best hitters in the N.L. He was left on our doorstep, like a chubby little George Brett in a bonnet. And instead of being a part of a great team, he's the only thing that kept the 2009 Giants from being one of the worst offenses of all time.
The Giants are a bad hitting team. They could get better, but the people in charge will choose not to because they believe in dragons and unicorns veterans getting better with age down the stretch. I, for one, look forward to the contract extensions given to Brian Sabean and Bruce Bochy. And Randy Winn and Bengie Molina, too? We can only hope.
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Oh, cool.
The ghost post is back.
Anyway, lol at “chubby little George Brett in a bonnet.”
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 7:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bengie Molina is a black hole on offense
And Im sick of the veterans who cant get their OBP over .320. This is the major leagues, make a change if something doesnt work.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 4, 2009 7:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll clarify
Im sick of anyone who cant get on base at league average.
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 4, 2009 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sick of the whiney butthurt attitude along with the inability to get on base at league average.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
by nvsfg on Sep 4, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also hate that they called up Posey to not start him. Most likely, he’s going to be better than Molina right now. From the sound of it, it sounds like Posey is behind Whiteside on the depth list. Of course, I could be a little impatient, but he needs to get a few at-bats.
by xanthan on Sep 4, 2009 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am really hoping that they are letting him get in a routine before letting him catch. For example meet with rags and go over video, maybe he is calling games with Rags in the dugout or whoever. Maybe 5/6 games like this then boom! He is in this thing
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those are good things, but I get the feeling that the team has made way too much of an issue of Buster being a rookie catcher.
by xanthan on Sep 4, 2009 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree with you. I just tell myself those things so I don’t kill anyone
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only reason Posey was brought up is because Bengie wouldn’t play.
The reason he should have been brought up is because he is a better option than either Bengie or Eli.
I still want brownies.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
let’s be realistic here. Getting yourself aggravated because September call ups like Buster and Bowker aren’t playing is going to be a waste of energy. The Giants’ are fighting for a playoff spot, and Bruce Bochy is going to attempt to go to the dance with the guys that brung him. We may not like it, but that’s the way it has always worked. If we were in the position we were in the last couple of years, Posey, Bowker, Guzman, etc. would probably be playing every day, but we have to keep reminding ourselves that that would not be a good thing.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 4, 2009 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina didn’t bring anyone to this dance. It was Lincecum, Cain, and Pablo.
by xanthan on Sep 4, 2009 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he's been hitting cleanup all year and here we are
QED, computer.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has been extraordinarily bad in the cleanup spot all year. The Giants are where they are in spite of Bengie. Not because of him.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOLARS
you fell in so hard
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
HEY! THERE’S NO BROWNIES DOWN HERE!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/cry
Seriously, ever since Merope mentioned brownies I have been craving them.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made lemon bars recently. They were good. Do you like lemon bars?
by xanthan on Sep 4, 2009 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sooooo not the same. Not even close.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just got that tangy, back-of-the-throat feeling when thinking about lemon bars.
by younghutch on Sep 4, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My girlfriend made lemon bars last night. I ate way too many and today I feel sick. :(
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but I bet you do it again tonight.
by younghutch on Sep 4, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We actually finished them. There are no more to be had!
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lemon Bars, eh? Is that what you kids are calling the sex you’re having these days?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOLthescored’s fail beard cock blocks him!
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quite the contrary, my good man. Quite the contrary.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LARS WANTS BARS
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought lemon bars were where lemons went to get drunk.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 4, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
HA! sounds like fun, i want to meet a sexy lemon there
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that might be the hardest fall I’ve ever seen.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That hard and deep
TWSS
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
by Goofus on Sep 4, 2009 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t who’s better at that, you or Lars.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depressing nonetheless
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Sep 4, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Lars, you always know how to do it right.
by quincy0191 on Sep 4, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Major league managers don’t think like that, and I bet you wouldn’t either if you were a manager. While fans like you and me find it easy to say “bench this guy” and “get rid of that guy” the manager deals with these players on a daily basis and after having the Rowand’s, Winn’s, Renteria’s, and Molina’s compete for him for 130 games, he’s not going to dump them for kids he doesn’t know in the midst of a playoff chase. I’m sure he feels that he owes it to them to continue to play them. This is why fans don’t like Bochy, but he’s just doing what any other major league manager would do.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 4, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this is essentially correct. It’s still annoying though.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure he feels that he owes it to them to continue to play them.
I wish he felt that he owed it to the team (and fans) to play the best players he has available to him.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Bochy is a pretty good “player’s manager”, but with Winn and Molina sucking hard and in the final days of their contracts, should we be concerned with their feelings?
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
by Goofus on Sep 4, 2009 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fans no, Bochy yes. I’m a fan too, and I want Buster in the lineup, but I’m just trying to see things as Bochy probably does.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 4, 2009 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you start adding -y suffixes to your family’s names when you do that?
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
leave my wifey and kiddies out of this discussion!!
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 4, 2009 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Google Pro Tip
Do not under any circumstances ever search for “wifey”.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh shit. I’ve seen that site. That ish is horrifying.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
is it bad that I’ve known about wifey since before they had a paysite?
by jctGamer on Sep 4, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know how bad it is. I remember stumbling across it back in the days of dial-up.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait… is it bad or something? i’m kinda tempted to search it
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, what the hecks bad with porn? haha, porn is good
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
porn is good. Everybody knows that. But it’s not good porn.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
beauty is in the eye of the beerholder
by jctGamer on Sep 4, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
needs more beers.
Gary Darling, go DIAFF.
by The Enchanter on Sep 4, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure it’s about who he ‘owes.’ His job is to win baseball games, and I’m sure he genuinely believes he will win more baseball games with Bengie playing every day and batting cleanup than with Buster playing every day and batting second. Of course, we all think that’s nuts, but there is a kind of logic it:
Baseball has the most ferociously Darwinian system for identifying and developing athletic talent that the world has ever seen. Veterans have survived that system. Rookies have not. Therefore veterans are a safer bet than rookies.
So, bases loaded, one out, Bengie waves at a slider a foot outside and taps the ball to second. Lead runner out at second, Bengie, of course, out by a mile at first. And Bochy thinks: look at Bengie, what a competitor, put the ball in play and ran his heart out to try to keep the inning alive.
Same situation, Posey hits a good pitch, right to the shortstop, 6-4-3. And Bochy thinks: that’s why you can’t trust a rookie.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no emotions, so benching Molina wouldn’t bother me.
by xanthan on Sep 4, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A reasoned argument that kind of defends Bochy… my world is topsy turvy.
by sakbaum on Sep 4, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This just reminds me again why most managers (not baseball managers, just managers in general) are extraordinarily bad at their jobs.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Sep 4, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know who doesn’t seem to care about feelings when putting together lineups? Joe Torre. Guess who wins every year? Joe Torre.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
by cheno on Sep 4, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Batted A-Rod 8th. In the postseason.
The world did not stop spinning.
by younghutch on Sep 4, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Horrible move, but OK.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 4, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean like the Rays “dumping” they’re ineffective closers for David Price last year and winning the AL
by DFAAurillia on Sep 4, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’re not frustrated over that. It is more the fact that they would call him up to sit him on the bench
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When they called him up Molina was injured and out of the lineup. I don’t think they called him up with the idea of sitting him, I think it just turned out that way. Look at the bright side. Molina may be coming back early and if he shows signs he’s not 100 %, Bochy is hopefully going to do the right thing and take him out of the lineup once again. Not only that, but considering he weighs 350 pounds, there’s a good chance he aggravates the injury anyway.
I hope Sabean paid close attention to the comments that Brad Penny made after his start. He talked about the way Eli Whiteside worked with him and said he was as good or better than almost any catcher he has ever worked with. (Suck it, Russell Martin!!) With this in mind, I would think it would be easy to cut the cord with Molina after this season. There’s no need to sign Molina again so that they can bring Posey along slowly with a veteran presence. They already have one in Eli Whiteside.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 4, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that even if Molina were at 100%, Posey is almost assuredly a clear upgrade.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 4, 2009 8:40 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
But it's worth the gamble to offer him arb
Lowball offer, make it clear that if he signs, he’s a backup. He turns it down, and hello! Type A FA! For a guy we don’t want anyway!
Who’s stupid enough to sign him? Team with bat catching, young pitchers they’re trying to develop, retarded FO? Say hello to the 2010 Kansas City Royals!
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if he does accept, he’s likely to make $6 million+ in arb… are we willing to pay that much for a backup (who will probably be firmly entrenched in the cleanup spot by May if Posey doesn’t come out of the gate hitting .320?)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
There’s some rule about the arb process, where you can’t be awarded less than you made the year before, isn’t that right?
So Bengie would make at least 6 mil if he accepted.
I could see some team giving him a two year deal, but I’d still be scared of him accepting arbitration.
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that’s only for young players going into arb. But Bengie has the numbers the arb dudes like (HR AND RBI!) so I doubt he’d get any sort of drop in pay.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RBIS!
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
by ringleader3 on Sep 4, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RsBI!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RIBS > RBI'S
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
by jhiat00 on Sep 4, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That really wouldn’t be a good use of the Giants budget this offseason. Posey represents a clear upgrade at catcher at a much cheaper price. They’d be better spending that money upgrading one or both of the corner outfield positions and possibly first base and signing another starter and a Greg Zaun veteran catcher for like $1M.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 4, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sold on Whiteside as a backup.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jacks Williams
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Sep 4, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick point
here’s what a real mlb team does: the Rays called up and used David Price to help the get to a world series. If you have a better player, you put his ass on the field, and fuck the “emotions” of your VETERAN PLAYERS. They of all people should know that they aren’t as good anymore.
Winn himself has said he’s fine with sitting as long as he gets to finally play in the playoffs. Fuck Molina in the earhole- he is old, fat, and slow. He could fix the fat part, but hasn’t ever done it. He’s going to be gone from this team in a couple months, there is no reason we need to miss the playoffs because his fragile little ego might get a boo boo. He’s had some great hits in key spots, but Buster would CLEARLY be an upgrade, and he did NOT get called up to sit on the bench. Seriously, he should be playing every day.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont you play to win the game? I like the fact that Winn would gladly sit if its for the better of the team winning. That’s how more people on this team should feel.
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie is too full of himself for that
Winn is classy
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh, i can’t take people who are full of themselves, you’re no more important than ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The funny thing is, I bet Winn saying that he would be fine with sitting on the bench is the thing that truly inspired Bochy to give him the majority of ABs in RF for the rest of the year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Winn, master of reverse psychology!
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boo, you’re prolly right.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
by ringleader3 on Sep 4, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh man, this is so true.
/sobs
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frandsen: “I want to be a starter” Sent to Fresno
Winn: “Bench me if you have to” Starts the majority of games
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
by ResDog on Sep 4, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winn: starts vs RHP away games only
Should never start another game against a LHP this season.
And his home splits are terrible also. Of course, if that means Velez and Lewis in the OF with Rowand …
our pitchers are likely to have grey hair by October.
by 18 Mile on Sep 4, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the same organization that decided to trade away the only pitcher who could fill the role of closer simply because they didn’t want to trust a young guy as the starting catcher. And he wasn’t a rookie.
"Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense."
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's [no, make that Rowand's] contract.
Adoptive father of "Poncho" Villalona: This Angel don't fly. Nothing about him is light.
by thehavenot on Sep 4, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, no, that was the old general manag…oh shit.
by younghutch on Sep 4, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judging from Bochy’s comments the last few days, it seems like the Giants are afraid to play Posey. Morons
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Sep 4, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again:
"A foghorn blowing out wild and cold." -Dire Straits
by FriscoJoe on Sep 4, 2009 7:48 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
looool!
i missed this one before
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grant
please run for GM.
I will vote for you.
by WTF on Sep 4, 2009 7:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Worked for simmons!
wait…
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is a new idea...
Let’s fire Bochy. Why hasn’t anyone thought of this before?
by toofruss on Sep 4, 2009 8:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great Post
The inflexibility of management (Sabes and Bork) when it comes to the issue of veterans is the biggest problem at this point with the offense. Randy Winn batting fifth just boggles my mind. It’s boggled, I tell you!
by FireBrianSabean on Sep 4, 2009 8:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The funny thing is the inflexibility of management is not very consistent with these veterens. Benji always has to bat fourth, but last night he dropped Rowand all the way to 8th. Is this because you could punch Scott in the face and he wouldn’t be offended, but if you drop Benji in the order a few spots because of his inability to avoid outs, his feelings will get hurt. I can’t really believe this. Bochy really believes he is the best option in the four hole and that is really sad.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Sep 4, 2009 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I remember reading that Bengie was ok with batting lower in the order?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
by ringleader3 on Sep 4, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but then he sits in the corner and pouts
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he said he realized that he’s not a typical cleanup hitter and if the team got one, he’d gladly step aside. He doesn’t think the team got one.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 4, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if you batted your right fielder 7th like he deserves you might have to admit that maybe he shouldn’t be your right fielder at all.
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
give Winn some credit though. That two out ninth inning single followed by a steal of second and third would have been a winning play on a team with a good offense like the ones the Giants’ are playing this week. Randy Winn is still a good complementary player. That’s the problem with this team’s offense. All the starters are useful utility players.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
by rxmeister on Sep 4, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, they really have about five 4th outfielders.
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with everything in this post
Giants are fine at ‘doing the little things’, it just that they never have that many opportunities to because there are rarely any base runners on base to move over or score from third on a fly ball, or a third of their line up is gimpy/slow and they can’t score that extra run in a game that really do matter.
by nataku on Sep 4, 2009 8:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I posted this in the wrong spot last night
Hang me with here. Follow the beat.
"Changes" — jct "2pac" gamer
Come on come on
I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself
is this game worth watching should I blast myself?
I’m tired of watching Rowand & even worse Molina
my head hurts so I’m lookin’ for a wall to punch
Sabes give a damn about K-Fran? No
Play Velez hit a HR he’s a hero
Give the chance to matt downs who the hell cares
one less chatty mouth on the roster? Yeah.
First throw ‘em curve & fast ball on the corner
give ’em sliders down and in watch ’em swing through another
I got my swing back that’s what Randy said
2 sliders in the dirt now the rally’s dead
I got love for my Giants but we can never go nowhere
unless we hits a few homers
We gotta start makin’ changes
learn to see some pitches instead of first pitch swinging
and that’s how it’s supposed to be
How can Pedro shut us down if he’s close to 40?
I’d love to go back to when we scored some runs
but things changed, and that’s the way it is
[Bridge w/ changing ad libs]
Come on come on
That’s just the way it is
Things’ll never be the same
That’s just the way it is
aww yeah
[Repeat]
2
I see no changes all I see is veteran faces
misplaced Nate makes disgrace to bases
We under I wonder what it takes to make this
one better lineup, let’s erase the wasted
Take Molina out the lineup they’ll be acting right
‘cause both black and white is hacking at slop tonight
and only time we win is when we blank the other
it takes skill to be winners, time for Cain to lose each other
And although it seems heaven sent
We ain’t ready, to see a catcher that’s competent, uhh
It ain’t a secret don’t conceal the fact
Buster Posey’s real, and Molina’s wacked
But some things will never change
try to take freaking walk but then you’re benched like K-Fred
Now tell me what’s a Bowker to do
Drawing walks don’t appeal to the Dunston in you
You gotta operate the easy way
"I pinch hit a bomb today" But you hit it in a sleazy way
Swinging at 58% of pitches? " I gotta get paid,"
Well hey, well that’s the way it is
[Bridge]
[Talking:]
We gotta make a change…
It’s time for us as a team to start makin’ some changes.
Let’s change the catcher to Posey, let’s change the RF to Schierholtz
and let’s change the way the lineup is put together.
You see the old way wasn’t working so it’s on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.
3
And still I see no changes can’t a Giants fan get a little peace
It’s man on second base & no outs and you say Rowand PLEASE
Instead of moving the runner over he pops out to LF
No sacrifice this year? Are you fucking real?
And I ain’t never missed a game I ain’t have to
But now I’m back with the facts givin’ it back to you
Don’t let’em jack you up, back you up,
crack you up and pimp smack you up
You gotta learn to take a walk
they get jealous when they see ya with ya OPS+
But tell Dunston he can’t touch this
I don’t trust this when they try to rush I bust this
That’s the sound of my tool you say it ain’t cool
cheating the game walking? I ain’t no fool
And as long as I get at bats I gotta swing and hack
& I never get to lay back
but I never got to worry ‘bout the pay checks
5 year 60M deal that I signed way back
comin’ back after all these years
hack hack hack hack hack that’s the way it is uhh
[Bridge ’til fade:]
Some things will never change
by jctGamer on Sep 4, 2009 8:14 AM PDT reply actions 9 recs
Holy shit man
that is epic
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
man, I hate rodeo’s! They ruined my childhood
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you must not love America then.
by FireBrianSabean on Sep 4, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IF U DONT LIKE IT YOU CAN GEEET OUT!
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
by jhiat00 on Sep 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My mom took me
to the Grand National rodeo at the Cow Palace a few times when I was a young buck. I had a blast. I got to wear my boots and hat.
"A foghorn blowing out wild and cold." -Dire Straits
by FriscoJoe on Sep 4, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I went to about 25-35 a year, and it really put a hamper on my young baseball experiences!
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rodeo clown incident you’d like to share?
by younghutch on Sep 4, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow!
You gotta operate the easy way
“I pinch hit a bomb today” But you hit it in a sleazy way
Swinging at 58% of pitches? " I gotta get paid,"
Well hey, well that’s the way it is
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Excellent. I’m impressed.
I wanna hear the live recording of this.
Not a pig.
by GiantsBabe on Sep 4, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slug with me
Hail Mary, Buster,
Runs we’ll see
What do we have here now?
Do you wanna ride tha pine?
Ride-da-da-da
da-da-
da pine
by Giant Homer on Sep 4, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s hard to comment on something that I agree with so thoroughly.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
wait, I found something. The non-baseball nerd world is just going to get angry and call you a nerd, then tell you how money Edgar Renteria is down the stretch.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
PUSSY
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
by marcello on Sep 4, 2009 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OBP is a pussy stat.
HOW ARE THE GIANTS DOING IN R+RBI, HUH?
Oh . . . wait.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAH! Was that GRM or Dr B? Oh the memories of flamewars past.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 4, 2009 8:37 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Hokysmokes, I think.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
by marcello on Sep 4, 2009 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
HE WAS IN ARMY! HE TAKES KICKS TO HIS BALL
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GreatGiantsFan is a fan of R+RBI
Hokysmokesbw uses R+RBI-HR
convergent evolution
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Babby steps.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WE NEED TO DO WAY INSTAIN STATZ
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sofa King Mike calls his gf babby in his facebook status. That shit cracks me up.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My gf and I started doing it, too. After watching Delorean do it. It’s a really funny term of endearment.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love it when people badmouth peer reviewed advanced metrics and then make up a competing “stat” to argue. It’s juicily stupid.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 4, 2009 8:46 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I see those and add a “I’M SMART AND EVERYONE ELSE IS STUPID” footnote.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
At a time when so many of us are throwing out wOBA and FIP and MLEs, it’s nice to have an argument that’s accessible and written persuasively and with clarity.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 4, 2009 8:36 AM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
wHOA man, calm down!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Toggle case is Hell’s sentence case.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
weighted Home Owners Association fees?
by jctGamer on Sep 4, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
…tell him that Bot’s gonna cut him down.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Listen computer, I’m right there with you. What I’m saying is that those arguments go right over the heads of the uninitiated.
You know I’m one of the most STATS-friendly posters here (and have been for quite some time).
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 4, 2009 8:43 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I know! We are cool.
/puts blade away
Linear weights make so much sense though, it’s ridiculous.
by xanthan on Sep 4, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the productive outs vs. the batting average table. By league average, you have about a 6% increased chance of making a productive out over getting a hit. Seems like a really worthless thing to try to do in most situations (not all). Especially if you factor in all the extra benefits of getting a hit (no out is made, runners can advance multiple bases, more runners on, etc.).
Conclusion: Productive outs are almost always stupid.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
by marcello on Sep 4, 2009 8:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ninth inning in a low run environment blah blah blah.
It’s pretty obvious that the teams biggest problem is just making outs.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trying for a productive out does not preclude the possibility of getting a hit. Things like hitting a fly ball with a runner on third or hitting to the right side with a runner on second may be worthwhile if they reduce the possibility of a non-productive out while having a smaller reduction of the probability of getting a hit.
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.
FREDEMPTION 2009
by neurofarm on Sep 4, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats on a Grant post? Gadzooks!
Seriously, though, after reading a post like this, it reminds me of why Bochy needs to not be the manager next year. If you’re concerned about hurting people’s feelings, you won’t field the best team possible, and you will end up like most of the SF Giants LOLineups.
There’s certainly something to be said for a happy clubhouse, but when that lineup can’t score during a pennant race, you need to make changes in the lineup.
Winning ball games will cure all hurt feelings, methinks.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 8:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
/slow clap
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 8:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
/increases tempo of clap
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Sep 4, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DON'T MAKE ME USE STATS!
I WILL IF I HAVE TO!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 8:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
BUT FIRST CAN YOU TELL ME WHERE TO FIND THE STATS I AM REFERRING TO!
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
by can of corn on Sep 4, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RIGHT HERE!!!
/grabs crotch
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/looks
Those stats aren’t very impressive.
by chilibean_3 on Sep 4, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about an analysis of Vealez’s route to that fly ball last night, I thought he missed it at first. From the 1st baseside of the park it looked horrible
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 8:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well done and nicely argued
I like that the Mets and Giants top the list of productive outs. NO LEADERSHIP. NOT CLUTCH. LACK 6th TOOL. SCRATCH GAMER DIRT ETC.
Someone will just turn the whole thing on its head, and use the productive outs success% to explain why Boch is manager of the year.
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
by kennv on Sep 4, 2009 8:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ARGHHHHHH
Bochy picked Fred Lewis from among many options to pinch hit for Travis Ishikawa.
“I wanted somebody who wouldn’t chase the slider down,” Bochy said.
MAYBE YOU SHOULD START THIS MAN SINCE HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT WONT CHASE THAT PITCH, EH
by jctGamer on Sep 4, 2009 8:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That is rich. Pablo and Bengie both chased that pitch. You could’ve pinch hit for them.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO MUST MORE USEFUL OFF BEnCH! CAN HIT HIM IN KEY SPOTS!
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty tired of Lewis
I think this is one of those situations where the stats don’t tell the whole story. He doesn’t seem to have any ability other than walking. This is fine and good until the pitcher actually throws you strikes and you have to hit the ball, which Fred seems to have lost the ability to do.
Yeah, I know he has a great OBP, yada yada yada, but when was the last time he’s done anything to make you think, “Hey, this guy should be given a starting spot?” I have more confidence with Winn from the left side of the plate than Fred right now, and if you’re going to give the starting LF spot to a kid, I’d rather see Bowker than Fred. I can’t say he’s much worse than Velez, but at least Velez has been hitting the ball at least somewhat.
/prepares self to take the full brunt of jprony’s wrath.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like it if Bochy knew how to use Fred Lewis.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry, did you actually read Grant's post?
He just very convincingly showed that the Giants problems are mostly that they don’t get anyone on base… and you want to cut bait on the one guy other than Pablo with a decent OBP (and, really, the only guy who seems willing to draw a walk once in awhile.) Yadda yadda yadda OBP… really?
His only ability is walks? I don’t know if you realize this but the ability to walk is pretty valuable, especially on a team with no one else who has it.
In addition – his batting average is about average. He has better than average defensive range in LF. He’s, yet again, one of the only players on the whole team who has hit to a league-average level this season.
I agree – I would rather see Bowker, as I think he has similar on-base upside and obviously a much greater power potential. But you shouldn’t want to give up on Lewis because he doesn’t get a hit every single time he comes up (Similar to the POP% thing, where we think they fail every time up when they’re actually very good at it – Fred is hitting .333/.400/.500 as a pinch hitter this year. The amount of shit he gets for the pinch hit at bats where he doesn’t get a hit and the lack of credit he gets for the ones where he does is mind-boggling.)
Ok, there’s my wrath. :)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frankly, I could use a few less.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t get this damned taste of lemon out of my mouth!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Top front? Good god, Lemon! That’s your worst quadrant.”
by Every6thDay on Sep 4, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GREAT line!
(though incorrect…)
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 4, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very attractive, can’t wait to see her at the Lemon Bar
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that like the Lemon Party?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
by ringleader3 on Sep 4, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“It’s not a Lemon party without old Dick!”
by Every6thDay on Sep 4, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad..... sooo bad
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DOOOO NOOOOTTTT GOOOOOGLE THISSSS
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOLOOLLLOLOLOLOO
scarred me for life
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 4, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IF U DONT GET A RBI YOU MIGHT AS WELL MAKE AN OUT
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my mind a walk is just as good as a base hit when nobody’s on, and yea, on this team it’d be incredible if there were more walks. This team would probably be a much better team with more walks… I agree though, it’s too soon to give up on Lewis, consistency for him would be nice
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not arguing the value of a walk vs. a hit. Getting on base is just as valuable as getting on base. However, it doesn’t seem like he’s doing either lately.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
really? I’ve felt like he’s been pretty solid lately. It felt like he went 0 for June, but it seemed like he’s been in the middle of some late inning ruckuses in the 2nd half.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lately?
What lately?
He hasn’t been playing lately.
Unless you consider a random start or a random pinch hit appearance “lately”, then I think you should give him a break.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 4, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"lately"
is any plate appearance in recent times, PH or start.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So that's been like 5 PAs, then
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sunday.
1-1, double, HBP, two runs scored
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FOR EVERYONE WHO SAYS YOUR EYES CAN'T LIE WRT OFFENSE
He hit .412/.524/.588 in August.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT WHAT GUUD R STATZ U DONT GET AN AWARD FOAR
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meanwhile, Eugenio Velez from August 9th through September 3rd:
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Sep 4, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well you’re right, but he hit the ball hard last night, so he’ll play everyday from here on in.
signed,
Bruce Bochy
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am with you. You know I am not a fan of his, but on offense there hasn’t been anything to complain about since he broke out of his funk in Colorado like six weeks ago. It actually seems like he is taking less walks than before, but I don’t really give a shit because he is hitting the ball hard and doing it on good pitches.
He should start against RHs. If he goes back to suckage, I want to see what Bowker can do out there. We know what we will get from Winn and Abe
by m34josh on Sep 4, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, all i care about is either a W or L on the record for the giants, i dont care about how he’s been doing lately. But like i said, consistency helps any player
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No baseball players are consistent
The absolute best fail more than half the time.
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
except Barry
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Pujols
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT JETERS GUNA B MVP
And that’s why CC’s gonna win the CY!
/Kornheiser is a fucking oaf.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
JUST STOPPPP, The Yankees will win everything
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
CC is 16-7 on a team with the best goddamn offense in baseball, and that’s good enough. Tim
won 17 last year with one of the worst offenses in history, and he had a problem with that. Fucking east coasters
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tim sucks compared to the glorious Phil Hughes!!! what are you talking about dude! damn, people on the East Coast are so short sighted
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know people bag on Jeter
But he’s about to pass Gerhig as the all-time Yankee hits leader. Hearing that this morning kinda blew me away.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
by Goofus on Sep 4, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeter is a damn good player and should finish in the top 5 for MVP this season, ahead of Teixeira.
Obviously, no one can touch Mauer.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Jeter really doing that well this year? Better than Teixeira??? wow
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
surprising how well he's done...
but I still wouldn’t do it.
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
3000 hits
And Jeter doesn’t seem that “old” to me too.
Probably the face
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean to bag on Jeter
he’s fine, but to say he’s MVP this year is fucking retarded, as is TK, so there ya go.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa whoa whoa....
You leave tk alone…. She’s a valuable member of this community
;-)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol oops
forgot about her! Sorry tk!!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
it’s tk lowercase, mr tony is TK uppercase. So there.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TK = buffoon
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
Pujols’ OBP is still “only” .441.
Bonds, however, did have four seasons where he was over .500 in OBP. (One over .600!)
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know
just sayin’. It’s really fun to look at Barry’s 04
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
consistency and failure aren’t mutually exclusive.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 4, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They pretty much are. Streakiness in baseball is at least mostly a myth, at least if by “Player X is streaky” you mean “Player X tends to have longer positive/negative streaks than would be expected by chance.”
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
don’t some players consistently fail to get on base, say, over the course of a season or a career?
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 4, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I see your point now. Yes, I suppose. In fact, I guess the worse a player is, the more consistent he’ll be, since the fail will not be interrupted by so many periods of success.
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, now you're just making things up
Over the past 15 PA’s, his OBP is .400.
Past 25 PA’s: .458.
Past 50 PA’s: .449.
Past 75 PA’s: .440.
Past 100 PA’s: .390.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 4, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
unLOLeash the gore
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
tl;dr
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with everything she just said. And this time I’m not just saying it out of fear.
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
by ResDog on Sep 4, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it’s hard to say that Velez should play over him, but I still think Winn is a better option, at least against RHP. He has a hearty .297/.354/.412 against them this year, and his defense is better.
If we’re talking about the best OF options at this point, I think you’d have to go:
LF Bowker
CF Rowand
RF Winn or Nate
As stated above, Winn still hits above average against RHP, and I think most people just get pissed off that he’s hitting in crucial spots in the order, and that he’s playing against LHP.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
agree w/ your final point. Dude should not ever ever ever EVER play vs LHP
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And when he is in the lineup, he should bat 7th or 8th.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
6th is for contact.
7th is for threat power.
8th is for reserve speed.
So sayeth Earl Weaver.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 4, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure I was wrong. Thanks for the info.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred has hit .294/.373/.457 vs RHP this season, you know.
I don’t take umbrage with suggesting that we might have better options than Fred – I agree with that, I’ve become a big Bowker fan this year and he should be getting more PT.
What I take umbrage with is your argument: the disparaging of Fred’s walk and OBP skills after Grant just wrote a great post showing WHY the Giants’ lack of walks/OBP has been their biggest downfall, remembering only the ABs in which he made an out and being willfully ignorant to the fact that he’s hit quite well since July and has hit especially well in the PH-role.
There are arguments to be made against Fred Lewis. Saying things like:
He doesn’t seem to have any ability other than walking. This is fine and good until the pitcher actually throws you strikes and you have to hit the ball, which Fred seems to have lost the ability to do.
Yeah, I know he has a great OBP, yada yada yada, but when was the last time he’s done anything to make you think, "Hey, this guy should be given a starting spot?"
I can’t say he’s much worse than Velez, but at least Velez has been hitting the ball at least somewhat.
are all, quite frankly, bs.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oprah's Book Club Update
Random House just moved up the publication date of “Fred Lewis is NOT the Problem” by jponry (with INORITE forward by groug) to October 5.
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
by Kitspool on Sep 4, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least I know Aadik and bondslegend will buy it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/searches for pre-order on amazon
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll skim through it at Borders but will re-shelve it and buy a Pearls Before Swine book instead.
"Trust me: If I’m feeling lousy at the plate like that, I’m not just going to walk up there with bases loaded and get a hit because I’m some great clutch hitter." - Mr. F!
comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Sep 4, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
when was the last time he’s done anything to make you think, "Hey, this guy should be given a starting spot?"
by the way… why, just on Sunday, when he came off the bench to hit a double (which led to a run scoring) and then, later in the game, fought off a lot of tough pitches from a lefty and eventually got him to throw a mistake (hitting him) after which, hey, four runs scored.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FRED LEWIS IS THE CAUSE OF CHILDHOOD OBESITY
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See...
I remember this.
The Fred Lewis haters don’t.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 4, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More and more, it really does seem to me that the Fred haters remember only the ABs and games in which he screwed up and never the times when he’s successful.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love fred lewis
and I love that you keep fighting the good fight. YOU GO SISTA
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, if he were truly as bad as they said he was, I wouldn’t bother… but he isn’t!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love that you are the leader of the People’s United Front Against Those Who Deem Fred Lewis a Failure. Love it. I don’t necessarily agree with you all the time in the Lewis debate… but goddamit do I respect you.
by FireBrianSabean on Sep 4, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PUFATWDFLAF
… has a nice ring to it.
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t you mean the Fred Lewisian United People’s Front?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or that
FLUPF is indeed a more catchy acronym than PUFATWDFLAF.
by FireBrianSabean on Sep 4, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m glad I let you do all the talking. You articulate it better than I would
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IDK WTF people's problems are
but there must be SOMETHING that they don’t like, because they KEEP SINGLING HIM OUT when this offense is FUCKING ATROCIOUS and he’s one of the only good players on the team. What the actual hell.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially when it’s a player who’s basically been reduced to 4-5 PH appearances a week. He could go 2-5 and it would seem like he wasn’t doing a good job because he made an out 3 times that week!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoops I meant to respond to howie
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT STRUCK OUT LOOKING THREE TIMES WITH THE BASES LOADED, AMIRITE?!!!
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Lewis isn’t the problem (and i’ve never argued that he is, i don’t understand why he is benched), is it fair to shift all that misplaced wrath to Velez?
Is Velez the problem? I’m not sure he is more of the problem than say Winn, Renteria, Molina or even Rowand.
Shifting the blame to velez seems to be making the same kind of mistake people make when they wrongly blame Lewis.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 4, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s less of a problem than Renteria or Molina, about as much of a problem as Winn, and more of a problem than Rowand.
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Velez himself isn’t the problem. The problem is that he’s getting such a long leash compared to Lewis and Schierholtz and Bowker, when he’s clearly the worst player of the four.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's why Velez is the problem:
he’s blocking better players when he plays.
Rowand: sucks, but who else would play CF?
Renteria: sucks, but who else would play SS? I suppose I’d rather see Uribe, but whatever
Molina: I fucking hate him, too
Winn: We’re saying the same about him. He blocks better players when he plays.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why can’t we say that the us, the fans are the problem?? eh? eh?
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
because we pay their salaries
and dammit, we can say what we want
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha, so true, MONEY IS THE PROBLEM
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GAH ROWAND DOESN’T SUCK FOR THE SAME REASONS THAT FRED LEWIS DOESN"T SUCK!
They’re both league average hitters who play league average or slightly better defense!
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Sep 4, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Addendum
Rowand: sucks for what he’s being paid.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With 2.1 WAR, he’s arguably played up to his salary.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
randy winn
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
by ResDog on Sep 4, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Winn can't play center
He’s a third baseman, for crying out loud!
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 4, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/was wrong about Rowand
see, Lewis haters? You can do it too! When you make a moronic statement that you can’t back up, and then someone points out that you’re wrong, ACCEPT IT AND MOVE ON. Sorry, Scott. I wuz wrong
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t saying Lewis is THE problem. In fact, he’s certainly towards the end of a long list of problems this team has. I was just trying to point out that people on this site tend to give him more credit than he deserves, when there are better options on this team than him (ie – I would have rather seen Bowker, Nate, or Posey PH last night over Fred)
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nate did PH and he grounded out to first on the first pitch (or something horrible like that).
I love Nate (see my sig), but I think Fred is just as good an option.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're the juggernate bitch?
sounds exciting!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should put it in quotes. Obviously Juggernate is the Juggernate. Or something.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol i know
I’m just messin w/ you. I saw the comma
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I get it.
Yeah, I wouldn’t mind being Juggernate’s bitch.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good-lookin fella
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the girlies seem to think so.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Natie's ladies?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/starts new fanclub
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/didn’t realize Nate had PH already.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a line drive caught on a fly not a grounder.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 4, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, no it wasn’t, it was definitely a pretty weak ground ball right at Howard.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...
well, if somebody has video of it…
by hokysmksbw on Sep 4, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If someone has an mlb.tv subscription, they can probably watch the condensed game… the boxscore says, “Groundout, 1B unassisted.”
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose you believe everything you read on the internet.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 4, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I also strongly remember SEEING it as a not very well hit groundball to first.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose you believe everything that has strong and ample evidence supporting it, huh?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just saw it on OD (saw entire game over again)
You were correct.
It was a chop in front of the plate which Howard caught right before it smacked his package. When I was watching yesterday I only saw the catch at the groin then I took my eye off Howard going to the bag after snagging the ball. Somebody’s gotta fold the laundry.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 4, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
honkytonkbbw was wrong!!!
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
by jcb9 on Sep 4, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Say...
Is it too late to use that ID? It has a ring to it.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 4, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at the game. About 20 rows from 1st base. It was definitely a ground ball to 1st.
You can check gameday out
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holly crap are you dumb.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 4, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol wow
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 4, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nooo
nobody is giving him more credit than he deserves! Jesus, people are just saying he deserves more credit than he gets.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC
even jp would rather see bowker.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It just seems to me that many people here get all bent out of shape that he doesn’t get much playing time, when he really shouldn’t get more than one start per series.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uhh no
people are mad that Velez is playing.Bowker> Lewis/Nate > Velez.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
naw, i’m just mad i got more papers to write on a 3 day weekend
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that dude only 2Bd and 4Bd off Pedro Martinez...
…he must suck.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 4, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
one game > the 57 other games he’s played this year yeah!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is your justification that the guy with the second-best OBP on the team and the third-best OPS+ should only get one start per series?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um hello
he’s already said that all he does is walk. Jesus, don’t you people listen to reason?!?!?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
all he does is cheat the game
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Sep 4, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
all he does is clog the bases
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Sep 4, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's also frustrating
He was hitting well for the first part of the season, then went into a slump. He got benched after the slump, which, okay, the Giants have trouble scoring runs, it’s hard to keep throwing someone out there who’s slumping.
Okay, well, he’s NO LONGER SLUMPING. And yet he’s gotten barely more than 1 PA per game in the past month.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT ALL HE DOES IS WALK!!!!
/doesn’t listen to stats saying otherwise
MY EYES DONT LIE!!!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, hitting .269 is certainly a world-beater. let’s give him LF, hands-down.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus Christ, have you read a single comment so far in this discussion?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH MY GOD!
Why do people keep doing this?? Is it just to piss us off? It must be to piss us off, right?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, take it easy.
He was replying to my comment that he isn’t hitting the ball (or at least that’s what it looks like to me).
I’m not saying walks don’t matter. I’m not saying walks are less valuable than hits. I’m just saying that Fred’s value seems to lie more in his ability to walk than to hit. Maybe he’s starting to hit again now (hard to say, since he’s getting about one AB/game), but I’m just saying that for the season, he hasn’t hit the ball much.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who does hit the ball on this club? Oh yeah, that Sandoval guy.
That’s about it. I think everyone else on this club is below league average. (possible exception ebing our overpaid CF)
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winn is hitting better than him, which I guess is my main point. That, and if Bowker can translate his walk % to the majors, he will probably be a better LF option than Fred.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winn is the worst hitting of all our OF’s this year, isn’t he?
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wut? Winn is not hitting better than Fred.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
vs. RHP, yeah.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh
I already posted the stats in here and Fred is hitting better than Winn vs RHP.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.294/.374/.457 for Fred
.297/.354/.412 for Randy
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you’re saying that Randy’s better batting average wins out?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I imagine he’s going to say “higher batting average, better defense”
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol 3 points of BA
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the defensive point is valid, sure. However, I didn’t know about the slugging disparity, and I sure as heck don’t know if the defense makes up for it. I leave that to the people that know advanced stats.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems like you’ve made some statements about Fred in this discussion without actually looking them up to make sure they were true. It would do your argument better if you checked to make sure that Fred really was slumping lately or that Fred really was hitting worse against RHP before stating that to be teh truth.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you’re probably right, but to be fair, I did glance at his game logs, and there’s a lot of 0-1’s, so being unable to watch or listen to games myself, I thought it fair to assume his slump had continued from mid summer.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait Winn is hitting better than who? If the answer is not Renteria, then you are wrong.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously man, you’re just making statement without backing them with anything.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 4, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was poking a bit of fun at your arguments the whole thread.
And I don’t know how you can say “It’s hard to say” that he’s hitting better when we’ve showed you stats that show that, yes, he is hitting quite a bit better.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you just admit that maybe you were wrong here?
God, I’m so sick of people making these fucking moronic (not calling YOU a moron, saying your POSITION is moronic) arguments. Nobody here is saying he should get the job full time for the love of God! Quit saying htat! Noboy here is saying that! Again: NOBODY HERE IS SAYING FRED LEWIS IS SOOO GREAT HE SHOULD START EVERY DAY.
He’s better than you give him credit for, and he’s one of the best guys on the team at getting on base! If you don’t understand that, then there’s nothing more to say on the matter.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying he's not getting on base
But (again) where would you play him? In left over Bowker? In right field or center? His poor defense would seem to negate his OBP in those OF spots.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
…and Bowker is the answer on defense? Is that what you are honestly arguing?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the option right now isn’t Lewis or Bowker.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well I thought the whole discussion was based on our own theoretical “what would you do” mantra. If that’s the case, for me at least, it’s Fred vs. Bowker in left.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the whole discussion seemed to start with you saying you were “tired” of Fred in all iterations,
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, which I concede was wrong.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/needless fred lewis discussion ended!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good grief. Why would you even reply on this thread without reading any of the original post or any of the comments?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand Grant's points
Maybe you ought to read the rest of my comments before overexaggerating my argument.
I wasn’t saying Lewis is THE problem. In fact, he’s certainly towards the end of a long list of problems this team has. I was just trying to point out that people on this site tend to give him more credit than he deserves, when there are better options on this team than him (ie – I would have rather seen Bowker, Nate, or Posey PH last night over Fred)
And that would be my OF against LHP, probably. I still think Winn needs to be in there against RHP. [referring to Fred/Rowand/Bowker]
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you come back with a BUT HIS BATTING AVERAGE IS ONLY .269! after a long discussion about this whole thing, then yeah, you’re gonna kind of invalidate any reasonable things you’ve said.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I wasn’t arguing that he shouldn’t play based on his average. I was using his average to point out that he hasn’t hit the ball as well this season.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.269 is about an average BA.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love this so much
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which makes no sense since pretty much everyone else on the team is slumping, but still getting tons of PA’s.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/Velez hits leadoff
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve heard he’s a mailman or something.
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
It seems to me like Fred’s only reasonable outfield spot is in left, wouldn’t you say? It would seem to hide most of his defensive flaws the best. If you assume Rowand plays center, and Winn plays right (because of his ability to handle the brick wall so well), then you’re left with Bowker, Velez, or Lewis to play left. I don’t condone Velez over Lewis, but I do think Bowker is the better option.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I’d personally prefer Lewis-Rowand-Bowker (or Schierholtz), but that’s fair enough.
That said, you really aren’t giving Fred enough credit.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's probably true
And that would be my OF against LHP, probably. I still think Winn needs to be in there against RHP.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be your OF against LHP?
Mine would be
Torres-Rowand-Schierholtz
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AWTC
EXCEPT LEFTEES CANT HIT LEFTEES DUH
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I owe you a coke or something.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred Lewis...
Is done with this organization.
I’m pretty sure he won’t be back next year. Frandsen too. Eugenio Velez has all but sewn up his 2010 spot hough, just hopefully not as a starter
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure Velez is going to be handed the LF and leadoff job out of spring training.
I’ll never understand why Fred is so deep in the doghouse, but what can you do?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theory
Dunston and co. preach the aggressiveness so when Fred goes up there and takes pitches it could make him seem unreceptive to coaching, etc., when really, he just knows not to drink the Kool-Aid.
He really is the most selective hitter on this club (pre-Posey) and the other guys that have some moticrum of patience are all established veterans
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, also
There was all the talk of him being a more aggressive POWER HITTER this year and that obviously has not happened.
He’s been about the same player he was last year, which was apparently fine and worthy of a starting spot, no one has really stepped up and outplayed him and yet…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RUTHLESS AGGRESSION!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a shame, I don’t consider myself a huge FLew fan, but it’s fairly undeniable that on this team he’s our 3rd or 4th besth hitter
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was also something either Baggs or Hank wrote about Fred not being able to admit mistakes/receive criticism.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frankly, if Bochy/Lansford/Dunston/Sabean are the ones doing the criticizing, I can hardly blame him for not accepting it.
Thing C
by markdash on Sep 4, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do realize that Fred is hitting better than Nate and that it’s not even close, right?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 4, 2009 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's actually pretty close...
…in fact Nate was at or slightly above Fred less than two weeks ago. The current difference is entirely from Nate’s slump in the last 8 games he’s played.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 4, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Sad Face is going strictly by OBP.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
by cheno on Sep 4, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that slump is part of Nate’s talent level. I mean, if you want to discount that, then why not discount Fred’s slump earlier in the year? Fred’s hitting better for the year, and he’s hitting better right now. I really don’t see an argument about this.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Sep 4, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not discounting it...
…except to the extent that saying that “it’s not even close” when the difference amounts to 8 games worth of ABs seems wrong to me.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 4, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred was slightly better two weeks ago two, but you’re right that “it’s not even close” is an exaggeration.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 4, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The nice thing about hating a player is that you have roughly 65% of his at bats to can the crap out of him, and only about 35% of his at bats where you have to STFU.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup
I think you, I, bondslegend, and Natto make up the Fred Lewis fan club here.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Sep 4, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
um you forgot the jponry, the busdriver of the Fred Lewis bandwagon
by jctGamer on Sep 4, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the "you" refers to her..
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is not to be confused with ogc, of course
/tony bruno
by jctGamer on Sep 4, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Save me a seat in the wagon.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Sep 4, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m here…. even though I picked Nate over Fred in one of Grant’s polls earlier this year, since I thought Nate had a higher upside (which I still think he does, yet he’s probably never going to come close to it)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a silent bandwagoner.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I spent a lot of time yesterday trying to explain to my two friends about why Fred Lewis should be starting over Eugenio Velez. Then of course Velez leads off the game with a HR and Fred makes the last out with the tying run on third.
I also explained to these guys that Bochy was an idiot for pinch hitting Bengie against the D-Backs a few weeks ago and then he went out and hit the go-ahead HR.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Sep 4, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Molina failed the next night as a pinch hitter though....
But man, when lightning strikes, it’s hard to forget it.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you explain to them why Nuekom is an idiot for not extending Sabes already?
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What you need to do is to keep explaining to your friends why players are bad and stop explaining to your friends why players are good.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like him, I just hate talking about him.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 4, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to join this club. To whom do I pay my dues?
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.
FREDEMPTION 2009
by neurofarm on Sep 4, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For 50 cents, you get an awesome badge. For a dollar, you get a pair of Fred replica shades.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/writes $1.50 check to jponry
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.
FREDEMPTION 2009
by neurofarm on Sep 4, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're getting ripped off.
Join the Velez @ 2nd Fan Club ($1.25) and get a free Velez Replica Mitt:
by younghutch on Sep 4, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Signed?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 4, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hit the “Rec” link on this with my mouse pointer.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 4, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much for the bubbahead?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 4, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FREE BUBBAHEAD IF YOU SIGN UP NOW
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm In!!!
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 4, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’M IN THIS THING
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
I also make music, please check it out
by ringleader3 on Sep 4, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 4, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've had enough of Lewis, personally
I think this is one of those situations where the stats don’t tell the whole story. He doesn’t seem to have any ability other than walking. This is fine and good until the pitcher actually throws you strikes and you have to hit the ball, which Fred seems to have lost the ability to do.
Yeah, I know he has a great OBP, yada yada yada, but when was the last time he’s done anything to make you think, “Hey, this guy should be given a starting spot?” I have more confidence with Winn from the left side of the plate than Fred right now, and if you’re going to give the starting LF spot to a kid, I’d rather see Bowker than Fred. I can’t say he’s much worse than Velez, but at least Velez has been hitting the ball at least somewhat.
/prepares self to take the full brunt of jprony’s wrath.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
UnleashTheGore, the poster so nice you post it twice!
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
jct said he could say it again
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
by jhiat00 on Sep 4, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoops :-/
I swear i cancelled the first post. Damn delayed posting.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 4, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/drops two pennies on the table
A good 4th outfielder on most teams. On this team, if they insist on not trying Bowker, he should be playing LF & leading off. At the very least against RHP.
Where’s my change?
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
by ResDog on Sep 4, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
be careful there
I don’t think any table is capable of supporting two Pennies dropped on it
by jctGamer on Sep 4, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
umm, there’s a game tonight, could talk about that
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Suppan!
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PIE!
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
by jhiat00 on Sep 4, 2009 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1990's PEDRO IS BACK! LET YOUR SOUL GLO!!!
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
by jhiat00 on Sep 4, 2009 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I’ve seen that in several different places. Of course, no regard is given to the disparity in lineups faced.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I’ve seen people say, “Well, yeah, he was facing the Giants lineup… BUT HE LOOKED SO GOOD!”
Uh, only because the Giants can’t hit 88 mph HEAT.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
HEY! the stadium gun said 91
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 4, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PEDRO SHUTS DOWN TRIPLE-A OFFENSE, HERO. TIM SHUTS DOWN DEFENDING CHAMPS, CHUMP.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pedro: 7 Ks, tim 11 Ks
MLB.com MENTIONS THAT FUCKING FACT AND STILL SAYS LINCECUM WAS “OUT DUELED” DESPITE GIVING UP FEWER HITS AND GETTING MORE FUCKING KS AND ONLY GIVING UP 2 FUCKING RUNS YOU FUCKING IDIOTS.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
considering strengths of lineup, it was one of his best starts
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walter Johnson probably would have lost that game.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walter Johnson would have hit two dingerz to win it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All through baseball he was loved and respected
Was there bitterness in Walter Johnson? Well, it was never detected.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 4, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he’s a stiff
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
by Goofus on Sep 4, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See,
and I know you’re not serious, but this is why I don’t read other people’s “analysis” or watch ESPN or MLBN anymore. Because they’re full of fucking morons who make arguments like this because they’re too ignorant and stupid to think for 5 goddamn seconds about what ACTUALLY happened, rather than just the end result.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The number of people who have said that is pathetic.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
making me throw up a little bit.
by sweetjuxtapose on Sep 4, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, I can’t stop thinking about how much better the Giants offense could be next year if they made the right moves. Not even anything gigantic (though I wouldn’t say no to a trade for a shortstop…)
I’m basically at the point where I never want to see Molina in a Giants uniform again – like, a week ago, I was ok with offering arb and running the risk that he’d accept, but now I don’t even want that. Same with Winn, though he’s probably not as much of a risk to get a ton of cash in arbitration. There are just really obvious and huge upgrades right there in the system for both of those players.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What kind of moves would you make?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Replace Bengie with Buster.
Replace Winn/Velez with Bowker/Lewis/Torres/Schierholtz.
Re-sign Freddy Sanchez or sign Orlando Hudson.
.
.
.
.
Trade for Jose Reyes or Hanley Ramirez :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes might be available; the Mets are sick of his injuries, and obviously need to retool. We’d have to give up a lot, though. I think they’ll resign Freddy. A DP combo of Reyes/Sanchez would be awesome, the 50 games or so they’re both healthy.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes had actually been pretty healthy for four years straight before this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What’s Reyes’ contract situation? When you say “a lot,” does that mean “Bumgarner”?
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4ew-fwu2XT2R6BFbZ5C_Ww
Makes about 15 mil over the next 2 years, though it doesn’t appear that he’ll be a free agent at the end of that (arbitration?).
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have to think so. And they’d want more than just Madbum. i’d make that deal, though.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
uhhhhh, no thanks
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So then what do you do with Renteria?
$9M utility player? Or do you put him at 2B and let Sanchez walk?
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The first one.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
9 M utility player or just cut bait
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
God i hate this team
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
bondslegend = Xanthan?
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
by jhiat00 on Sep 4, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
*short circuit noises*
STFU
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your mother was a snow blower!
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
by jhiat00 on Sep 4, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And JT just smiles knowingly….
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But none of this is going to happen
Love the fantasy life, but here’s the thing; Sabes doesn’t think SS is a problem, betcha anything. He doesn’t see Rent as ‘worst hitting SS in baseball.’ He sees him as ‘gritty vet, playing through injuries, gonna bounce back and be great again after surgery and rehab.’
BTW, i have a little historical perspective which might be of interest. For 8 years, my age 19-27 years, the Giants starting SS EVERY YEAR was Johnnie LeMaster. So I can live with Rent in a two year deal.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt many of us think that any of this will actually happen, but it’s still fun and interesting to discuss what should.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, sorry, of course that’s true. It is fun to fantasize.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love to fantasize about having money and lots of friends
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wanna be married and have 100 kids so I can have 100 friends, and no one can say no to being my friend.
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sad micheal is sad
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Melissa Hudson: Did you get married?
Michael Scott: Uh, no…
Abby: Why not?
Michael Scott: Uh, it just never happened.
Sasha: So, do you have any kids?
Michael Scott: Uh, nope.
Jake Palmer: Do you have a girlfriend?
Michael Scott: I do ok.
by The Double Deuce on Sep 4, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There have been some people speculating on a “dead cat bounce” for Edgar next year…
…but shouldn’t this year have been his dead cat bounce? :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basically, old dude has a terrible season and everyone thinks he’s done – he comes back the next year, sees an improvement in BABIP for one last year and hits better.
But Rent was already terrible last year, so…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never understood the renteria thing
and this isn’t hindsight. He’s been terrible for like 5 straight years (yes, exaggeration). I never got how it would be worth it to give him 9 m/year
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edgar is hitting .359 vs Dodgers this year.
If you’re going to be outstanding against one team, that’s the one to beat.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 4, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
CORRECT!!
EDDIE, BIZNACCHIOS!!!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 4, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
MMMM Nachos
I had a ginormous plate of chili cheese supreme nachos yesterday, with 3 other people. Heartburn heaven
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus he's our enforcer!
I thought I didn’t care… then I fell in love with Panda and now I’m not so sure anymore. - Smoke On The Water
by jhiat00 on Sep 4, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine with me. I think it’d be cool to ditch Torres, and sign Mike Cameron. It wouldn’t alleviate the logjam in the OF, but it’d be nice to have an OF who plays great D and can hit righties and lefties.
I don’t know how others feel about this, but I would trade Mad Bum for Reyes in a second (even though Reyes is only controlled for two more years).
I am welcome to having my mind changed by the stats-type people, though.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would probably do it too, though pitching depth would quickly become a huge priority.
I actually like Torres but Mike Cameron is a great player and I’d be happy to have him on the team as well.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NFW
Trading Alderson and Madbum would be fucking disaster IMO. I know SS is a glaring priority, but wow. I can’t imagine losing those 2 in the span of 2 years.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Mike Cameron is that great anymore for the money he is being paid. Maybe he just hates Milwaukee, or maybe his age is catching up with him, but I don’t see him as a difference maker anymore. I think Bobby Abreu would be much cheaper and put up the same or better stats.
That being said, I wouldn’t want to see either of them make $6+ million/season when that money could go towards trying to lure Matt Holliday, Jason Bay, etc.
by m34josh on Sep 4, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s got a 111 OPS+ this year…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what thats like
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 4, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cameron’s legs are starting to go, though.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you read something, or is that based on his declining steals?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
heard from a Brewers fan, and the stats seem to back it up
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Sep 4, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say his legs are just fine
He still plays gread D, but he does have a lot of those dreaded Ks. That’s nothing new for him.
by JetSam on Sep 4, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It keeps him from a high BA but he’s still a productive hitter despite it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cameron’s highest OPS+ in the last three years is 111 and is making $10 mil
Abreu’s lowest OPS+ in the last three years is 113 and is making $5 mil
Just think Abreu is a better value and younger. (Would still like to see that money put towards someone younger and better, but they may be too expensive)
by m34josh on Sep 4, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Abreu is a bad corner OF, and Cameron is a good CF. That’s a huge difference. Just comparing their offensive stats is misleading.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 4, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much this
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But comparing their salaries is not misleading. With 12 million invested in CF already for next year, would the Giants rather pay that much for a second one and move Rowand to LF? Or invest far less than that and get a guy that is really a corner outfielder? Abreu was a very good right fielder until a couple years ago. I would imagine he could play left field @ AT&T well enough and save them millions of dollars
(My vote is still for getting someong else, but Mike Cameron isn’t worth the money he makes so I am throwing out cheaper options)
by m34josh on Sep 4, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Abreu’s getting a ton of pub this season, I don’t think he’ll come for $5 million this offseason.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe. I’m not advocating either. But the way you compared their production was still misleading.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Sep 4, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cameron plays a spectacular CF, while Abreu plays a sucky RF. It makes all the difference in the world.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
REYES FOR SADOWSKI
GITTURDUNN SABEAN
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Sep 4, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is, we have to offer Bengie arb for him to be a Type A FA. Worth the gamble, especially if we make it clear he’s coming back as Posey’s backup. I think he’d go FA, and i think there are teams who’d sign him; bad teams with young pitchers they want a vet to work with. KC comes to mind. Winn’s gone either way; he might even retire, as will, surely, Aurilia.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moves...
Like Bowkermania and Buster Time.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 4, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winn’s not gonna be a Type A FA, is he?
If not, no need to offer him arb. Giants already have enough fringey outfielders.
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Type B
which means that the draft pick wouldn’t keep teams from signing him
…but he might not get that much attention after hitting, what, .260/.310/.360 this year? And that arb would be a cool guaranteed $3 mil at least probably…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
Pass. I think he’ll probably retire, TBH.
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
Like he’ll go from hitting 5th in a playoff caliber lineup to retiring in one year!
/cry
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From our standpoint, it doesn’t matter if he retires or not. We just don’t resign him. We don’t offer arb, we don’t resign, we just thank him for all he’s meant to the org and ask if he’s interested in coaching. Same as Richie. Who knows, maybe someone signs him, or not.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to see Winn as an OF instructor in the minors. After I read yesterday that he actually has a plus arm according to the defensive metrics, I was like, man, he really must do everything just right, because he does NOT have a strong arm.
by taliesin on Sep 4, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everything i’’ve read says he’s a good guy, great clubhouse guy. In interviews, he seems really bright. He’d be an excellent coach, maybe like a roving minor league instructor. He seems like a guy who got everything out of his talent he could. Same with Richie, who i think would also make a good coach.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Sep 4, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Winn
he’s just not very good anymore. I have a hard time being as angry with him as I am with Molina, because Winn KNOWS he’s not very good anymore.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
yea
for some crazy reason, Molina actually thinks he’s a great player. Not just good, but a GREAT player, when in reality, he is fucking awful.
by superk1ng on Sep 4, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reason Molina thinks he's a great player...
The Giants front office, the San Francisco MSM and the Giants’ casual fans all think he’s a great player
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So true. When Bochy pinch hit him for Nate Sunday, I was totally grumbling away to myself, but I was the only one in the park doing that. Everyone else was cheering like crazy for Bengie. That just made me angrier.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d cheer for him too, there’s no way i’d not cheer for the Giants dude, no matter what
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't cheer him
but I also wouldn’t boo him. But then again, I never boo.
by superk1ng on Sep 4, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t boo my own team, either. But, I knew he was going to K (which he did), and I was so frustrated. I certainly wasn’t going to cheer the move to PH an injured Molina for a healthy Schierholtz (or a multitude of other guys).
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
bingo
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He never was great, either.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Sep 4, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I know people like to say "but he plays catcher'!
I would think we would be able to get MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better production from catcher than what Molina has given us if we did something like a platoon between Ronny Paulino and somebody else.
by superk1ng on Sep 4, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did hit ok for a catcher his first two years here, but it’s really not the case anymore. Ronny Paulino probably would have been a more productive hitter, overall, this year. (And he would have been a pretty good stopgap for the beginning of 2010 if they didn’t want to start Buster right away.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 4, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, i look to what he did with the giants when he first came over from Seattle, that is who Winn was
by PiKAgiant on Sep 4, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winn's 2009 #s are close to his 2006 #s.
Homers being the obvious exception.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 4, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He pretty much sucked in 2006, and he is slightly worse now.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is absolutely nothing in Rich Aurilia's skill set or approach that I want him teaching to young guys.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 4, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what a waste of an historic rotation
by sweetjuxtapose on Sep 4, 2009 9:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That’s one way to look at it. The historic rotation is the only reason that the rotation is getting wasted, though. We expected the offense to be bad, and was supposed to be bad, but the pitching coming into place exactly the way it has has been a big surprise.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone predict tonight's lame-ass lineup
by sweetjuxtapose on Sep 4, 2009 9:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
LF: Velez
SS: Renteria
RF: Winn
C: Bengie
2B: Uribe
CF: Richie
1B: Garko
CF: Rowand
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops, Richie at 3rd
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was about to say...
“Hey, I see what you did!”
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 4, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
too many RHHs, the rule is you need to start a veteran lefty wherever you can except where you only have young guys, then you play RHHs.
by sweetjuxtapose on Sep 4, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL Richie in CF.
I'm the Juggernate, bitch.
by kdl on Sep 4, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol richie
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOLionel Richie
"A foghorn blowing out wild and cold." -Dire Straits
by FriscoJoe on Sep 4, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 11 recs
this is beautiful
With malice towards the Dodgers
by heimy25 on Sep 4, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
U R the sun
"A foghorn blowing out wild and cold." -Dire Straits
by FriscoJoe on Sep 4, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you’re making me blush
With malice towards the Dodgers
by heimy25 on Sep 4, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get a room!
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs