Bruce Bochy and Buster Posey, Part XVII
by Grant Brisbee on Sep 24, 2009 12:16 AM PDT
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PrintBenito Santiago became a full-time starter for the San Diego Padres when he was only 22. He hit .300, threw dudes out from his knees, and won the Rookie of the Year award. He was the future of the Padres franchise. And the Padres finished 65-97 that year.
The backup catcher was Bruce Bochy, who was coming off a nice season as the backup to Terry Kennedy. When Kennedy was traded after the '86 season, it's doubtful that Bochy rubbed his hands together in anticipation of a new starting gig. Bochy had probably accepted his role as a backup catcher by that point. But he was absolutely glued to the bench in '87, starting only 18 games.
Bochy watched the rookie catcher allow 22 passed balls. He watched Santiago catch a sub-mediocre pitching staff. Eric Show, a fine pitcher and frequent 15-game winner, was suddenly a 16-game loser. Once Santiago learned the game, Show returned to form in 1988. Maybe those two things weren't correlated at all. But they could have been to someone sitting on the bench, watching some hotshot kid get all the press. Santiago kept getting his hits, but San Diego kept losing. The hitting from the starting middle infielders was bad -- Bocockian, even -- but the pitching was the biggest reason the Padres came close to 100 losses. The bullpen was solid, but the starters were mostly wretched.
When Ed Whitson would hang his third-best pitch in a strikeout situation and watch it get ripped for extra bases, Bochy knew that Santiago had a lot to learn about calling games. When a passed ball would rattle young pitchers like Mark Grant, Bochy would empathize. The Padres were bad the season before, so it's likely that Bochy completely understood why Santiago was out there; it's not like the team was planning on taking the NL West. But with the Padres 11-7 in games started by an experienced catcher, it must have been easy to think that the Padres were losing in no small part because of an inexperienced catcher, even if he was the Rookie of the Year.
It's a little silly to think that Bochy is psychically scarred from his last year in the majors, and now he's taking out some sort of latent hatred of rookie catchers. But I'm realizing that it's just as silly to think that Bochy isn't playing Buster Posey because he's feuding with management or trying to prove a point. It's just as silly to think Bochy is refusing to play Posey because he wants to coddle a sensitive Bengie Molina. Heck, when Molina looked tired on Tuesday night, Bochy yanked him. He didn't worry about feelings; he yanked Molina and put in Eli Whiteside.
No, Bochy isn't playing Buster Posey because he seriously thinks that of the three catchers on the roster, Posey represents the worst chance at a victory. Bochy's entire view of baseball is catchercentric. If Galileo rose from the grave to tell Bochy that baseball revolves around other elements of baseball, Bochy would laugh. It's painfully obvious, he'd think, that catching is the most important aspect of the game, so he wouldn't even bother arguing. Catchers call every pitch. They lead the team. They're more involved with the defense than any other position. So why should the most important part of the game be given to a rookie in his early 20s if the team is trying to win?
Here's the thing, though: The Giants are probably going to try to win next year. They'll make some sort of splash in the trade or free agent market to help the offense, and the pitching staff will remain mostly intact. So expectations will be higher. And if the Giants bring back Bochy, he'll probably be reluctant to start Posey. Heck, he might advocate that Posey start the year in the minors. The Giants will be trying to win, mind you. Inexperienced rookie catchers have no place on teams trying to contend. It's been almost 86 years since a team led by a rookie catcher made the playoffs. And by "86 years", I mean "one year", so you can see where this fear comes from.
This is just an unfortunate coincidence: the Giants' best position prospect of the past two decades happens to play the one position on the diamond that comes with all sorts of mystical, intangible, and overblown importance attached to it, and the Giants' manager is a high priest of that particular church. Bochy doesn't care about Posey's on-base potential, or his solid K/BB rates at every stop, or the blah blah blah that's giving him so much hype before he even starts a game. That stuff doesn't win games. Whiteside is hitting .200/.240/.278 with three walks against 28 strikeouts, but he does the stuff that wins games. Heck, the Giants are 17-12 in Whiteside starts, which can't be a fluke. I mean, it absolutely can to anyone with a sliver of objective thought in their brain, but it isn't to followers of a catchercentric dogma.
Maybe this is an overreaction. Maybe Posey will start next year, and Bochy will live with it, if not encourage it. Maybe he just thinks this season wasn't the right time to break in a new catcher. The easiest way for the Giants to improve the offense is to replace Bengie Molina's 281 on-base percentage with something better. The solution is right there. Even if Posey only matches Matt Wieters' disappointing .287/.336/.406 line, the offense will have taken a huge step forward.
In the three weeks since Posey's been called up, though, he's had three at-bats and a handful of defensive innings. This is because the manager is trying to win, and he thinks that Posey hurts the Giants' chances to win compared to other catchers, even if the alternative is a minor league journeyman who was usually one of the worst hitters at every minor league stop. I'm not sure why this view would change in the offseason. Here's hoping the Giants make the right decision for next year and beyond.
It's hard to write a post like this and not think of the end of "Casino", with Robert DeNiro's character getting his own regional talk show and using it to call out local politicians. It's funny but cringeworthy to watch DeNiro rail on the same topics over and over and over with no one listening, and I'd like to think I did just as well on both counts. I'd like to thank this poster for finding this old messageboard post, which gave me the idea for this screed.
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I'm pretty sure
I coined the phrase bocockian. No biggie.
It’s definitely been used since before you joined the site…
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Sep 24, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes
By me. I’ve been using it since he started for us a couple years back. Also of note, my fantasy baseball team at the time of coinage was “The Flying Bococks” (a registered trademark of TwoBagger INC).
I invented the English language. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
That was half-ass work.
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
Butt pipe!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 24, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Smokin’ it.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait…
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
There were no staples back then! They were held together BY THE POPE.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
THE LORD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS®
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 24, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I see your Pope has a Lutheran sacramentology
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Sep 24, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
He should put a towel on.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 24, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I WUZ THE FURST TO USE LOL!! BOW DOWN BEFORE ME!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 24, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
NOT UNTIL YOU BUY ME DINNER FIRST!
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks to Satyricrash and Oldjacket!
One of the funniest subthreads in a long time. Bravo!
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 24, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
And Oakland must have...
a SacramentoLoogy
by NearestNorwich on Sep 24, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL I'M SOMBODY!!!1!
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Sep 24, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
why would you be so proud
of something that is so obvious?
Maybe he works in Hollywood.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
Listen TeaBagger, if we give you an executive producer credit, will ya pipe down?
Half awake, half baked
by Giant Homer on Sep 24, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
But my pipe!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 24, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
HowTheyScored: if you are officiating and hosting the year-end McCC Awards this year...
Consider the Little Richard Award for Dubious Claiming of the Origination of Things.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 24, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not saying that I am nominating you...
… but I’m not exactly sure how to finish that sentence.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 24, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not saying… I’m just sayin.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
I originated the alphabet!
"Vhet ere-a zee oodds Booster Pusey ifer pleys fur zee Geeunts?"
"He-a vun’t pley unteel he-a gets sume-a mejur leegooe-a ixpereeence-a."
You like confetti?
I thought of that
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
by NuschlerFace on Sep 24, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz8iZgDQZW8
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
by NuschlerFace on Sep 24, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
How is this Buster Posey person?? I never heard of him. I know NBA player James Posey but who this Buster person?
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
brown chicken brown cow!
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
He’s alright.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Bochy plays Whiteside to boost the pitching staff. The starting pitching has been in a rutt lately and the pitchers praise Whiteside’s pitch-calling.
My guess is Bochy sees Whiteside’s value to the pitching as being more than Posey’s value to the offense. In the short term, this kind of makes sense… in the long term, not so much.
In the short term, this kind of makes sense
It makes sense from Bochy’s perspective, because he doesn’t understand the fact that nobody’s been able to find any evidence game calling ability has an effect on the actual outcome of the game…
by Missing Barry on Sep 24, 2009 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions
not that I agree with playing Whiteside over Posey—at all—but there is in fact evidence game calling has an effect. The problem is, the evidence is more anecdotal and comparitive experienced based, than statistical. Just because something is difficult to measure statistically does not mean it doesn’t exist!
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Sep 24, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
The world, she’s-a round, like-a you head!
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Not the same token, actually: you present a question of testimony, the question I addressed is one of inferential method: different epistemological routes.
Something being widely believed is in fact, significant evidence to its being true. Of course, it in no way means that something IS true by virtue of wide belief alone. Put conversely, a rare belief is, prima facie, less likely to be true—and prima facie evidence is still evidence.
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Sep 24, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
ELITIST
Now there’s a meme I haven’t seen much lately.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Didn’t that have something to do with wilriv thinking Jon Miller’s Spanish speaking was pretentious?
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Yes.
Believe the brother is just showing off.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
I was joking, actually. I have some vague memory that the word “elitist” was actually in use even before Jon Miller spoke Spanish.
It’s probably a reference to how us SF people are all hoity toity.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
The air here is filled with smug
Bleeding orange and black since 1987
by TehGreekStallion on Sep 24, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I remember it starting because somebody (wilriv?) mentioned that they found Jon Miller to be somewhat elitest and unenjoyable, citing his use of Spanish in the broadcast as part of the reason he comes off as elitest.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I see this has now been found, clarified and linked below. Excellent.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, anyway, it at least became entangle with wil and Jon Miller’s elitist Spanish speaking.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Ah!
It was actually Headhunter Rollins. (He’s kicking our asses in fantasy, right now).
Wliriv joined in, though.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
I was just saying at McCovey’s that I think about three people are still paying attention to fantasy. I see you’re another one!
And I passed him in the standings – for one day. :(
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
I suppose finishing in first place in MCC fantasy in 2008 and second place in 2009 isn’t such a bad showing!
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
I would like you to explain yourself more fully
Now that I have looked up all of your $5 words in the dictionary, I can ask you a few questions.
Not the same token, actually: you present a question of testimony, the question I addressed is one of inferential method: different epistemological routes.
Isn’t anecdotal evidence just testimony?
Also, all evidence (data) should not be treated equally. To equate any person’s one-time observations vs. using years of statistical analysis would lack any sort of scientific rigor. Yes, using one’s observations when no other available data exists is certainly more evidentiary than blindly guesstimating whether pitch-calling has any value, but the evidence is still of questionable value.
Additionally, even if there were no data based on scientific observations and all we had was anecdotal evidence, that still doesn’t mean that the conclusions reached by this evidence has any real effect on actual outcomes. That is to say, Whiteside’s pitch-calling ability might be better than Posey’s but the difference is so small in comparison to the attention and perceived value that this skill-set receives.
Something being widely believed is in fact, significant evidence to its being true. Of course, it in no way means that something IS true by virtue of wide belief alone. Put conversely, a rare belief is, prima facie, less likely to be true—and prima facie evidence is still evidence.
What discipline of thinking does this come from? I am trying to match it with methodology used in the physical sciences, and it doesn’t seem to fit. I am thinking you have a background in law or philosophy. Or am I completely off-base.
Hopefully this didn’t come across flippant, I really just want to understand your arguments better. Thanks.
/autodefenestrates
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Sep 24, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions
You again!
Get off my lawn!
/autodefenestrates
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Sep 24, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions
anecdotal evidence may be a matter of testimony , or it may be from personal experience. Not everyone separates the two, as some see testimony to be equivalent to personal experience. Typically, though, in epistemology testimony is, to put it crudely, ‘the words of others’—which is rather clearly a different animal than personal experience. Testimony, in this sense, is also a widely underplayed part of epistemology.
For example, consider the claim that the earth is round: I certainly believe this to be the case, and in fact I believe I know it to be so: but I don’t know this empirically (at least not first hand—others might), nor do I know it strictly by reason, and my experience—which includes empirical studies—at best only suggests it is. I know it to be so on the basis that it best explains a number of phenomena (and both explanation and awareness of the phenomena itself are mostly reported to me—i mostly have access to them via imagination, and later analysis by reason). Also, it is widely held to be so by eminently respectable and trustworthy people, on the basis of theories and ideas which are respectable as well as well, and my accepting that belief from them is done on the basis of testimony, though of course other sources of knowledge are involved.
I definitely agree that not all evidence is equal. However, it is much more difficult to produce a detailed hierarchy of evidence than any of us would like it to be. But I certainly agree regarding your example.
As for your ‘additionally’: Agreed. It does seem this set, pitch calling, is being over-valued: Posey seems to be a good at it, though we don’t have much to go on, so the difference isn’t likely as significant as some seem to think. Especially when one considers that Posey would easily make up for that difference with the bat. The anecdotal evidence can be right "pitch calling makes a difference’, but it can be mis-used, or ridiculously over valued, as in the .300 hitter with little power and walks.
Keep in mind that my original comment was to
fact that nobody’s been able to find any evidence game calling ability has an effect on the actual outcome of the game
the ‘evidence’ here likely means evidence of a quantifiable sort. Now, I do think it is quantifiable, but no one has yet devised a method to measure it, and there is little wonder why: pitchfx is only now getting to the point where this is even logistically possible, and even then, once the data is compiled, sorting through all the pitcher/catcher/called pitch pairings will be a nightmare—all that before trying to figure out what a sufficient sample size is for some a measurement. My point was only: just because you can’t attach a number to it yet, doesn’t mean it isn’t not important: some people foolishly did that with defense before reliable methods were produced; now only fools will.
You’re quite on base. I have a background in both. My graduate work was in philosophy, with a lot of attention to political theory, and in particular jurisprudence.
Such a way of thinking has its merits—not least that it is fundamental to all intellectual endeavors and the actual living of live. But one has to keep in mind that prima facie beliefs are easily defeated, so one always has to consider the matter further—if it is worth it, and not everything is; I don’t need to listen intently to that crazy homeless man muttering conspiratorially to be rational in rejecting his position, I was rational in rejecting it far, far earlier on.
You’d be surprised how much of that sort of thinking you’ll see in the natural sciences, though. It is isn’t official in any way, but its sort of the elephant in the room, at times. I don’t buy Thomas Kuhn’s argument, but that it got the attention it did is telling: it wasn’t easily refuted, and that itself is a testament to the role groupthink has had in the natural sciences, despite the methodological protections the natural sciences are rightly keen on.
Not flip at all, I and I appreciate the careful reading.
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
by haverecords on Sep 24, 2009 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions
haverecords, thanks for the thorough response! I find this subject area very interesting, I have not studied epistemology, but I should probably get a better understanding of it.
Your example of the Earth being round is something I have thought of, but not in so much detail. As someone completely without faith in the religious sense, I am sometimes reminded, both in my work and daily life, that my set of knowledge is based off the work of many people, and I take their conclusions to be truth – seemingly a kind of faith. Science is kind of like building a house over many years: at some point the house is mostly built and you are doing additions and changing light fixtures, but there is that .01% place in the back of your head wondering if the foundation is going to hold…
Back to baseball (!) for a second. My personal belief is that every defensive aspect of catching (including working with pitchers here) is overblown and overemphasized. I believe that if Posey were “bad” at calling pitches, the difference between he and a catcher “good” at calling pitches would be so negligible. Some of my thought on catcher defense are here.
Anyway, good conversation. Thanks.
/autodefenestrates
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Sep 25, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, the effect is considered less distinct in the MLB since basically everyone has been through the minor league wringer and if they couldn’t call a game, they wouldn’t be in the majors.
There’s an argument to be made Posey hasn’t got enough experience to properly evaluate his game calling ability.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe that familiarity is a plus when it comes to catchers and pitchers working together, but at the same time, Whiteside caught Penny’s first start and Penny praised him as the best ever, even though they had never worked together before, so it isn’t required. Whiteside’s overall experience probably helped him in that scenario, however, but it isn’t as if Penny doesn’t know how to get guys out already.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, I believe Downside long ago passed the point where incompetent game callers would have been weeded out. If only he could hit.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
calling the game
catchers don’t just call the game on the spot. before each series there are meetings/discussions held on how to get each guy on the opposing team out using scouting reports, etc, plus the catchers and pitchers meet to discuss these things as well before the start, as well as during the games depending on scenarios and what is or isn’t working in the pitcher’s repertoire.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Depends on whom you ask . . . .
There are conflicting studies on the subject, and questions of methodology and, above all, sample sizes. At this point, it would be safe to say that there is no definitive statistics-based answer, so one is free to follow one’s gut on the topic. My own sense of it is that calling a game—which includes pitch selection, setting the target, framing the catches, and working the umpire, among other things—is significant, sometimes quite significant. Craig Wright’s discussion (in The Diamond Appraised) remains useful reading.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
I think Bochy plays Whiteside over Posey because he’s a fucking idiot.
/has given up on this season.
in the KLAW chat today...
Fred Lewis (San Francisco)
Why have the Giants given up on me as an everyday player when I’m the only guy on my team with any plate discipline and the only one besides Sandoval with an OBP over .350?
Keith Law (1:14 PM)
Because your defense has been, in their minds at least, poor. I would get that except that the Giants’ pitchers lead the NL in strikeouts, so if any team can afford to give up defense for some offense, it’s them. But then again, this is the same team that keeps playing Eli Downside over Buster Posey. They’re not that serious about winning if they keep making those decisions.
by giantdonkey on Sep 24, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I like how some people are like, “Well, Bochy likes putting his absolute best defense behind Lincecum” and it’s like LINCECUM GETS THE MOST STRIKEOUTS IN BASEBALL. If anything, you should be able to give up a little defense for offense when he’s pitching.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Look, if you didn’t have your best defense behind Lincecum, then some of those 2-1 losses could have turned into 5-1 losses. If you don’t see the problem there, I don’t know what else to say.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
obey the KLaw
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of KLAW
He tweeted this yesterday. I laughed.
I’d call Adam Dunn a gargoyle at first but gargoyles have more range.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
I love KLaw. In a purely platonic baseball sort of way.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
You're gonna love this comment
Dan (Tampa)
Better prospect Strasburg or Heyward?
Keith Law
(2:22 PM)
Heyward. If I was doing a top 100 now, I’d probably go Heyward, Posey, Strasburg.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Number 2 prospect in all of baseball, folks.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
you're right
given enough PA, he won’t be a prospect anymore
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Not after they started putting a billion people in it.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
The original nWo was the best angle of all time, though.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Fa sho
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
LOL Eli Downside
—Wait, is that one of TwoBagger’s?
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
Yes!
I’m finally getting some respect around here.
Silence, TeaBagger
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Sep 24, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
btw, this is a joke. I’m not trying to start sumthin
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Sep 24, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Good
Because I actually play baseball, which means I could kick your nerd ass!
Sorry but your nerd factor goes way up for participating in a baseball blog. Even if you hit like Bonds.
/has given up on this season.
For the record, posting here is one of the least nerdy things I do. Who here wants to talk adaptive optics?
/googles adaptive optics
Seems very useful for a ball player.
You play organized ball, men’s league, etc…?
/has given up on this season.
It's mostly used for telescopes and looking inside an eye
I played a little college ball and just finished a season in the Tri-Valley MSBL 25+ league. It was amazing going from a bocockian college BA to an Pujolian one in the men’s league.
I’ve been looking at MSBL here in Phx. I’m in a men’s league right now but it’s on portable mounds and dirt infield.
I guess MSBL here plays at different fields every week. Sounds cool plus I would be a youngster in that league.
/has given up on this season.
I really enjoyed playing in the MSBL. My team was terrible but the fields were nice and the umps were pretty good. They also have tourney’s at big league ST stadiums. What age group would you play in?
Don’t know how they are split up but I’m 27. I believe there is an MSBL WS here in the fall too.
/has given up on this season.
We had a baseball team? (Class of ’01)
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
Does that mean you’re old, or I’m old?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
LOL BA
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I just calculated my college hitting stats, if I did it right my line was: .285/.375/.714
I averaged one HR every 7 at bats! I should have never become a pitcher.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
I was a catcher but the starting catcher was really good. I had a good arm and I’m tall (not really built like a catcher). It turned out to be a bad move because after my sophomore year the starting catcher was drafted and so we were left with freshman catchers for junior and senior years. I also hurt my arm pretty bad my last two years. So yeah, the move did not work out.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Adaptive Optics
Invented by Horace W. Babcock. Think about it.
What about if you talk like him?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
You could look it up . . . .
As one of the Marx Brothers once asked, “Who you gonna believe? Me, or your own two eyes?” Fred Lewis looks like a fielder for whom we need the superlative of “awful”. But dang it all if it doesn’t turn out, when one looks up the numbers, that as a left fielder he is somewhere from average to a hair better than average. And that seems to be the case with at least two different fielding-rating schemes. (I looked it up at length late last night, but can’t remember which where—but I daresay it could be Googled easily enough.) I guess it’s a case of when he does screw up, he does so flagrantly and royally.
But, all that said, while he is potentially better than much of what they have now, that’s a rather left-handed compliment. For a corner outfielder, his batting is tolerable but far from what one might want. I’d say he is worth keeping as a placeholder for Thomas Neal (assuming Neal is ultimately what he looks like so far).
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Be careful, sir.
The Fred Lewis wars around here have been long and bloody.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
He’s average-ish to above-average by UZR and I think Dewan’s +/-. But yeah, it’s a case where when he’s definitely had his share of screw-ups and now that’s all anyone remembers (and, now, if he doesn’t make a play on a ball, it’s automatically a play he should have made, even if it was a very difficult play that most LF can’t make).
He would be a fine placeholder for Thomas Neal, but it doesn’t look like he’s going to get that chance anymore.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I can’t wait for Neal to come up to the bigs and ride the pine for 3 years (other than to work on his excellent pinch hitting skilz)!
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
goddammit he's my last hope
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Help me, Thomas Neal. You’re my only hope.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Problem is
Bochy plays the game on the defense from the start. He’s playing not to lose, instead of trying to win
Timmy is my Man-crush
by Fan from Sac on Sep 24, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Bochy invented the LLOLINEUP
Timmy is my Man-crush
by Fan from Sac on Sep 24, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
OT: F. Sanchez knew he needed knee surgery before the trade
Baggs report. Sorry if this was mentioned already.
Oh for pity's sakes.
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
by tk on Sep 24, 2009 2:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Meh
It’s just karma for the Jason Schmidt fleecing and the Matt Morris contract dump. Anyways it’s not the first time Sabes has made a bad trade.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Sep 24, 2009 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Hopefully it’s the last.
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
Sabean trades that drove me crazy
1) Jacob Cruz and Steve Reed for Shawon Dunston, Jose Mesa, and Alvin Morman
2) Bill Mueller for Tim Worrell
3) Russ Ortiz for Damian Moss and Merkin Valdez
4) Joe Nathan, Francisco Liriano, and Boff Bonser for AJ Pierzynski
5) Carlos Villanueva and Glenn Woolard for Leo Estrella and Wayne Franklin
6) Felix Rodriguez for Ricky Ledee and Alfredo Simon
7) Jerome Williams and David Aardsma for LaTroy Hawkins
8) Jeremy Accardo for Shea Hillenbrand and Vinnie Chulk
9) Shairon Martis for Mike Stanton
10) Scott Barnes for Ryan Garko
11) Tim Alerson for Freddy Sanchez
Sigh.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Also, looking at the trades Sabean has made
I totally forgot we ever had John Vander Wal.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
My only memory of him as a Giant is that one time him and Schmidt hit back-to-back home runs.
"Vhet ere-a zee oodds Booster Pusey ifer pleys fur zee Geeunts?"
"He-a vun’t pley unteel he-a gets sume-a mejur leegooe-a ixpereeence-a."
is that THE King Felix at #6?
"Early to bed, early to rise, makes a woman healthy, wealthy, and wise. That's why you all are wiser than me. It's cloudydays."
I thought King Felix was Felix Hernandez.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
no. that’s Felix No Slider Rodriguez
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Which one of these truly makes you hate him so much? No 4 is the famous one but really was it so bad? AJ was coming off two good years, and his late one was exceptional for a catcher and what we might hope from Buster Posey. Boof and Francisco are essentially non factors and while Joe Nathan is amazing, if AJ had performed like he had the two previous seasons the trade would have seemed like a slight win for the Twins, but not a crazy massive rape like its put out to be.
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
Did I say I “hate him so much?” I just said he’s made a number of trades that drove me crazy.
FWIW, I hate the Pierzynski trade from the moment it was made. I don’t think he’s a great comparison for Posey, because Posey has much better plate discipline and it seems like he’ll be better defensively as well.
Liriano’s one goo year contributed about 10,000 times more value to the Twins than we got from Pierzynski. Hell, they probably even got more value out of Bonser.
Also:
if AJ had performed like he had the two previous seasons the trade would have seemed like a slight win for the Twins, but not a crazy massive rape like its put out to be.
That’s a pretty silly argument. If something that didn’t happen did happen, the trade would only be sort of bad? Okay. If Ray Sadecki had ha a few more good seasons with the Giants, that wouln’t have looked so bad either.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Before the trade happened AJ hit .312/.360/.464
that is a fantastic offensive season for anyone, especially a catcher. I know it obviously didn’t work out but that is a good target to trade for. I know in hindsight it looks awful, and you never liked it, but at the time it was defensible.
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
AJ had a .331 BABIP that season… if you look at his career statistical record, he put up BABIPs of .320-340 pretty consistently as a Twin and much lower OBPs (including several under .300) away from them… looking at it now, I have to wonder if the way he hit as a Twin was partially thanks to the Metrodome.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
that seems like it could be a possibility, dude hit doubles too in the metrodome
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
uh that OBP should be BABIP
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
YES IT WAS SO BAD
YES IT WAS SO BAD.
Value each team got out of each player:
Nathan: 15.0 WAR
Liriano: 7.4 WAR
Bonser: 4.1 WAR
Total: 26.5 WAR
Pierzynski: 2.0 WAR
Total: 2.0 WAR
Owch.
Hell, AJ hasn’t even been worth that many WAR in his CAREER.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Baggs:
Sanchez said he knew he needed surgery before the Giants traded for him.
If you didn’t like the trade then, there’s no way you like it now.
I don’t have a problem with sacrificing pitching prospect Tim Alderson. The Giants are seldom wrong in evaluating their own pitching prospects, so I’ll trust their assessment on Alderson.
But the money is another thing. I was mystified then, and I’m mystified now, that the Giants didn’t get the Pirates to kick in any money in the deal — even a little bit to recoup Alderson’s $1.29 million signing bonus. The Twins wanted Sanchez, too, so perhaps taking the rest of Sanchez’s $6.1 million salary was a measure they had to take. We can’t know for certain, I suppose.
My guess is that Sanchez returns to the Giants on a two-year, $10 million contract – which, ironically, is what the Pirates offered him to stay before they traded him.
When a trade goes down, isn’t there any responsibility on the part of the player to be completely forthcoming with how he feels physically? I blame the Giants for not doing their due diligence, apparently, but if Franchez didn’t say anything about his knee just because he wanted to get the hell out of Pittsburgh, that’s pretty lame.
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
I don’t have a problem with sacrificing pitching prospect Tim Alderson. The Giants are seldom wrong in evaluating their own pitching prospects, so I’ll trust their assessment on Alderson.
This is silly though… it’s not like they were like, “Oh, you want Alderson? Go ahead, take him! No really, take him!” It sounds like they were pretty reluctant to include him.
Apparently Sanchez being injured and missing a ton of games was what it took to convince Sabean, of course, but…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
It was more like, “Please take Alderson. Please, we’ll do anything…” I would know, I was there
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Sep 24, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
2/10 is what I thought it might be in Goofus’ Sanchez thread.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I would hope any Franchez contract would be incentive-laden with relation to plate appearances and/or starts, maybe even a club option on the second year if it’s a two-year deal. Given what he’s done since he got here, is Freddy really in any position to complain if the Giants offer such a contract?
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
I guess the trouble is that if he doesn’t like that, he knows he can just accept arbitration later (and the Giants had BETTER offer him arbitration) and probably get $6-7 million.
That said, I think the Giants have the upper hand in these negotiations. If they end up giving him anything more than like 2/10, then Sabean will have been taken to the cleaners again.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
You really think he would get that much in arbitration? Because he’s making $6.1M this year, and he’s near the bottom of the pack of qualified 2B in R, RBI, and HR. He’s in the upper half in AVG, but also has barely enough PAs to qualify, so he’s near the bottom in that, too. I thought these were the principal things they looked at in arb (misguided though they may be), so I would think $6M would be at the very top of what he could expect to get in arbitration. I would think more like $4-5M would be the expectation.
If that’s the case, then arbitration becomes a much more palatable option (and one that works in the Giants’ favor). He was an All-Star this year though, so I guess he could argue, “Well, I made 6.1 million last year and I was an All Star, clearly I should get as much or more next year.”
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
The Giants are seldom wrong in evaluating their own pitching prospects
Is this even true? Sabean has traded a bunch of young pitchers who never made it, but then most young pitchers never make it. On the other hand, you’ve got a couple of all-stars in Foulke and Nathan, plus a bunch of other useful pitches in Howry, Liriano, Bonser, Linebrink, Villanueva, and probably some others I’ve forgotten.
Their track record of pitching prospect in trades are excellent. Remember, we have shipped tons and tons of prospects out.
Think Ryan Vogelsong, Kurt Ainsworth, Liriano (injury risk), and even in the case of the Foulke trade, 6 players went over to the whitesox, only one panned out.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Well, Howry turned out pretty solid, too.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Yes, this is the conventional wisdom. But as I said, MOST pitching prospects don’t pan out. Have the ones the Giants traded panned out at a significantly lower rate than normal?
If you had the data, you could compare zips or pecota projections for all these pitchers collectively with how they actually turned out. I suspect it would be pretty close, and we’d learn that the Giants’ brilliance in evaluating their own pitching prospects is mostly just the law of averages.
Grilli and Bump (For Livan)
Joe Fontenot (For Nen)
Yorvit and Foppert (For Winn)
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
We also gave up noted superstars Mike Villano and Mike Pageler for Nen.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
you’re right. Villano was a prospect at one time – he was #4 on BA’s Giants prospect list when we traded him. I don’t think Pageler was ever considered much of a prospect.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Like I said, I’m holding out for some systematic measurement rather than just anecdotal evidence.
Foppert, by the way, is a strong argument the Giants ARE wrong in evaluating their own prospects. They should have traded him a couple of years before they did.
Can't fault the Giants for Foppert trade
I give little credit to anything Sabean has done since the Schmidt trade, but that trade was okay. Foppert was their best prospect this side of Lincecum going into his rookie season, but something wasn’t right with his arm all of that season, when he lost 5 MPH off his fastball. From then on, there was never a good time to trade him. Trade worked out really well, in the short run, as Winn went on a tear. Subsequent contract to Winn screwed things up.
Also, seems like you actually agree with Bags statement that the “Giants have seldom made mistakes trading their prospects”. You just don’t seem sure its appreciably better than other teams’ records.
I agree with Baggs’ statement and actually think the odds are in their favor that Alderson does not come back to bite them.
Finally, the best thing Sabean has done in years is not trade Lincecum, Cain, Wilson and J. Sanchez, as much of a no brainer as that might be.
by San Francisco Slim on Sep 24, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I honestly don’t care if Alderson never makes the major leagues – I still think, even if his reputation wasn’t as good as it once was, the Giants could have gotten a whole lot more out of that trade chip. I strongly doubt that Freddy Sanchez was as good as they could have gotten for him (especially if he was included in a larger package for a better player.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
IAWJP
And not because I’m afraid of her. Not this time.
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
Yeah, if we’d given up Alderson but the Pirates had, like, picked up Sanchez’s whole salary or something, that’s one thing. But the fact that we’re on the hook for everything AND we gave up a pretty damn good prospect AND Sanchez had an injury before the trade just boggles my mind.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Not a good trade
Hated the Sanchez trade at the time. Remember you did as well, and we hate it more now.
Bags gets it right. $4million given up for Alderson’s bonus, Sancez’s pro-rated 2009 salary and now the 2010 option buy out. My point in disliking the trade was more about Sanchez than Alderson. Only a career .325 wOBA, is playing worse than that now, and he was replacing Uribe in the line-up, not Burliss. Plus, if Sabean sticks around it meant/means an almost certain over priced future Sanchez contract.
And while I don’t think its really likely that Alderson comes back to bite us, why give him up if you don’t have to?
Agreed with you on the trade.
by San Francisco Slim on Sep 24, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually liked the idea of getting Sanchez at the time – he has been a very good player when you take position and defense into account. I was thrilled when it was sounding like some fungible minor league part was going to be the centerpiece of the deal. But to give up Alderson for him when it was pretty clear that he was injured was really dumb.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Oh
It was the Alderson part that I remembered. I thought this site was surprisingly sold on Sanchez at the time; I guess you were too. But it would cost us $4 million minimum, for a minimal upside. $4 million we could have put to a better player. Theoretically anyhow.
by San Francisco Slim on Sep 24, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, I believed the Giants medical staff when they cleared him (lol me) and I didn’t think it was going to cost Alderson.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
And
I don’t think saying Sanchez was minimal upside is very fair. At the time, Giants second basemen collectively had put up something like a .270 wOBA. Sanchez at .325 represents a substantial upgrade. Sanchez at the .345-.350 or so he was at when the trade first started coming up even moreso.
Of course, even that end of the trade hasn’t worked out. Sanchez has put up a .274 wOBA as a Giant! /cry
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yes
But Uribe was hitting well at the time and was not resposible for most of that poor 2nd base production. I just didn’t see the Sanchez acquisition as much of an upside, but one with with a long term cost, aside from Alderson. I saw the cost as the $4 million and the scary future Sabean contract.
by San Francisco Slim on Sep 24, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, Bill James 101
Sanchez will always be overrated, particularly to old schoolers like Sabean, because so much of his value derives from BA.
by San Francisco Slim on Sep 24, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m agreeing only out of fear.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Focus, focus . . . .
I think the key point here is not the Giants’ evaluation of Alderson, but other teams’ evaluations of Alderson, by which I mean that whatever his actual upside, he was widely perceived elsewhere as having great value. So the issue is whether the Giants should have gotten something more for him than an older, severely over-rated, probably damaged player. (Of course, by the Giants’ old-fashioned criteria, a .300 average makes him a superhero, regardless.)
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Thanks, my wounds needed to be salted
Remember, we have shipped tons and tons of prospects out.
Interestingly, I’d like to forget that if you don’t mind.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL "Due Diligence"
Sabean’s work at this year’s trade deadline further highlights and underscores his diminished capacity as GM, and how far he has fallen in his effectiveness in this role. The Giants will never achieve what should be their ultimate objective (a World Series title) without someone exceptional in the GM’s chair. Clearly, “exceptional” is not the word to describe Brian Sabean. If winning a championship is truly the primary objective of the Giants’ organization, they absolutely must find a GM with the intellect and energy to lead the way in that effort.
I think we’re going to find out a lot this off-season about Bill Neukom as lead owner of the Giants. Re-signing Sabean for another 2-3 years just seems unthinkable.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
Due diligence
So if Sanchez’s knee was hurt, did Sabean not kick enough tires, or did Sanchez kick too many.
/autodefenestrates
Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story
FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.
by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Sep 24, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Sabes kicked Sanchez’s knee too many times.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
OH MY GOD LOLOLOL
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I really don’t want to gloat about being right about his knee, but I was.
Goddamn it.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
I don’t usually get to gloat, but a while back, soon after the deal, when it looked like his knee was okay, I remember saying “The thing that worries me is his knee”, and getting some folks agreeing with me.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
You were, of course, right.
:(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
well he should be
he coined knee injuries.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
If the Giants didn’t know about this, wouldn’t this count as damaged goods and entitle the Giants to compensation?
If they did know this and made the trade anyway, fuck my life.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
I mean, they said their medical guys checked him out… they must have known about it.
Ugh, I don’t know how he could have gotten so thoroughly fleeced. Trading Alderson for a healthy Freddy Sanchez – that’s debatable but there’s certainly a good argument for doing it, especially this year.
Trading him for one who has a fucked up knee and will need surgery after the season? WTF??? He was not the only second baseman out there!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
At the time of the trade there was a lot of “The Giants’ medical staff gave him a thorough examination!!! Do you think you know better than they do?” which bugged the hell out of me. I mean, they’re doctors, not all-knowing seers, Jim.
The Giants’ medical staff gave him a thorough examination
“Turn your head and cough.”
"The dreams ain't broken down here now, they're walking with a limp" --TW
I’m a skeptic. I think the medical staff did examine him “thoroughly”, and missed it.
Just like they missed Randy’s torn shoulder.
Gary Darling, go DIAFF.
by The Enchanter on Sep 24, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Then there is Noah’s claims of misdiagnosed injuries.
by chilibean_3 on Sep 24, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't worry, I see this all the time
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Sabean quote
From Baggs’ game story:
But Sabean did not express regret over the deal.
…
“You can’t deny that Freddy, when he’s been out there, has been every bit a No. 2 hitter that we didn’t have, and an All-Star second baseman,” Sabean said.
Sanchez with the Giants: .284/.295/.324 in 107 PAs; 2 (!) BBs and 2 XBHs. Yeah, he’s been great when he’s been out there.
Well, to be fair, he has usually (always?) batted 2nd since he’s been with the Giants, and he was on the All-Star team (making him indisputably an All-Star), so I guess you really can’t deny it. It’s, like, tautological or something.
He’s hit .284, therefore, he’s been good.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Exactly
He’s been hitting .284 while batting 2nd. His .295 OBP and .325 SLG is literally inconsequential to Sabean.
by San Francisco Slim on Sep 24, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
has been every bit a No. 2 hitter
I agree.
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
That’s the emptiest .284 batting average I have ever seen.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
You are in denial in spite of direct orders.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Gotta break out Kim Batiste
1993, Phillies: .282 / .298 / .436, 29 K, 3 BB, 161 PA.
Wow, Freddy Sanchez really was worse than that.
/sobs
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
His line with the Giants
.208 / .235 / .323. 33 K and 5 BB in 130 PA. 11 errors in 25 games at third base.
/sobs again
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
clutch bunts
well worth the trade
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
i think Bochy has a general distrust of rookies and not rookie catchers in particular. But interesting theory.
I would say
that he has a general distrust of rookies with a special distrust of rookie catchers (but not so much rookie pitchers, not when they have those veteran catchers to guide them through their pitches).
The baseball Satanist
I think he’s just an idiot and doesn’t know what attributes of a baseball player most help win baseball games.
by Missing Barry on Sep 24, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions
"Maybe Posey will start next year, and Bochy will live with it . . . ."
The shuddersome thing is the implication that Bochy will be managing next year, which in turn implies that Sabean will also be back.
While there has been quite a bit of raucous jeering at those two, the fact remains that even in a considered, sober evaluation, they plainly neither of them have any least idea of what elements actually go into winning baseball games. One wonders what it would take to get that simple message through to the new ownership. (Indeed, one has to suppose that if they haven’t clearly grasped that point by now, then the answer is “nothing will”.)
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
The answer is “nothing will” as they can’t see the forest for the trees. Sabean and Bochy willl both be back with multi-year contracts – Bochy is being considered for MANAGER OF THE YEAR FOR FUCK’S SAKE – and why? Because this team wasn’t expected to be this good. This team won despite what Bochy did from the bench, but he’s going to get the credit.
A fucking shame, really.
Compared to what?
Hasn’t anybody noticed that the Giants’ “great” season—a little over .500 ball—is “great” only because this was a rather dreadful year in the NL? In an ordinary year, they’d have been an ordinary, no-’count nothing, no story, no race, nada.
But Baggerly, at least, is saying that it looks strong for ownership to bring back Sabean. My, oh my.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
This hasn’t been a particularly unusual season in terms of NL records. Normally the WC team wins about 92 games, which is right around what the Rockies will get (barring a major swoon).
A lot of times, people will say this sort of thing when the “typical” good teams are having an off year. The Mets had injuries, the Braves were merely good, the Cubs sucked.
No one expected anything out of the west this season and they ended up being the best division in the NL. Therefore, the NL is having a “bad” year.
I’m not saying it is right (In fact, I think it is bullshit), but that is typically how this opinion comes about.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Just so.
But there isn’t much competition to the Rockies. Look at the runner-up teams in the other divisions: Atlanta and Florida at maybe 87 wins, Chicago at maybe 84. That’s how the G’s maybe 87 wins looks so competitive. (And the Giants are over their heads: their quality of play is more like 82 wins, the difference being, in essence, sheer luck.)
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
so what is it going to take
to get both Bochy and Sabes fired???
NUKEM, your thoughts.
by TimLaser and MattyC on Sep 24, 2009 2:39 AM PDT reply actions
But you never know . . . .
I doubt that Mr. Neukom reads these posts. (Were I he, I would, not necessarily for advice, but for a reading on how the prevailing winds are blowing on the Fannic Sea.)
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Hypothesis: Bruche Bochy knows very little about offensive baseball.
Data points A-C: the 2007-2009 San Francisco Giants. They’re GREAT!
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Actually, his variety of baseball offends me quite effectively!
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
I wonder if Bochy and Don Nelson hang out in Hawaii and smoke cigars, wring their hands and cackle maniacally while they plot benching their rookies. And by “I wonder if” I mean, ’isn’t it creepy that…’
Except Don Nelson’s history of benching rookies is mostly a media fabrication. Don Nelson knows what wins basketball games. Bochy does not know what wins baseball games.
by Missing Barry on Sep 24, 2009 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions
?
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Sep 24, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
N’mind, found it.
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Sep 24, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
The thing is
I wouldn’t be surprised if Sabean was sympathetic to this. He also seems to come from the school of thought that veterans have some sort of aura about them that gives them an edge over younger players. This seems especially true at catcher, where he decided to trade for a veteran catcher rather than let Torrealba have the starting spot.
The baseball Satanist
We just have to hope that Neukom doesn’t share the same belief. In his interviews he’s constantly talking of the farm system and developing players. I hope he’s just as disappointed with the lineup that’s being sent out there everyday. And I hope he wants a GM that doesn’t block young players with redundant acquisitions.
Hope.
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
Don’t you think someone would notice, in the org, how absolutely bonkers fans get when a homegrown player comes up and plays well? I mean, some of the free agents on the team are popular enough but it’s nothing compared to how wild people get for Pablo Sandoval or Tim Lincecum. Heck, I think fans have even gotten starry-eyed over Eugenio Velez to a much larger extent than you would expect.
Of course, it doesn’t always work (see: Lewis, Fred; Frandsen, Kevin) but, really, if a young guy comes up from the farm and plays well, it sure seems to me like fans take to that a whole lot more enthusiastically than they do if the team signs a free agent who plays well (or, in the Giants case, DOESN’T play well.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Team Building 101 says if you start managing a team based on the fans you will sit with them sooner than later.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
Well, isn’t part of their reasoning right now that they don’t want to play homegrown players because the fans won’t want to see them sit guys like Molina, Renteria, etc for prospects in a playoff race? They think they’re managing the team based on the fans right now and it’s not working.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Screw auras
Experience can be both good and bad. People who regard experience as inherent wisdom are foolish.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
there is something to be said for experience in the major leagues. It has value, particularly in learning the league and learning how to adjust to familiar competitors and situations. Unfortunately, it doesn’t necessarily trump ability and skills and the Giants FO has more often put too much emphasis on experience rather than skills. I really wouldn’t mind more 26 or 27 year old veterans who had been in the league for 4 or 5 seasons being on the team than guys who are over 35 who’ve been around for 10. the Giants FO doesn’t seem to make those distinctions and the default mindset is that veteran = better, which obviously isn’t so.
At some point, however, the value of the experience is diminished by the loss of ability. If you can’t catch up to the fastball, it doesn’t really matter that you know it’s coming.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
What I found when I Googled "Benito Santiago"
Rich Aurilia pounds his second home run of the night, a two-run blast in the fifth inning that gives the Giants a 3-0 lead. Aurilia has four homers in the postseason, so far. You reading this in the future must surely be staring in disbelief.
Ya know...ignorance really IS bliss.
Well - I do , anyway.
by victor frankenstein on Sep 24, 2009 6:42 AM PDT reply actions
Aurilia was so sick, which makes the fact that they’re still dragging around his lifeless corpse in 2009 all the more sickening.
Thing C
True, but I’m hoping to see a big round of applause when he comes out of the final game of the season.
by troymccluresf on Sep 24, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
He still gets nice ovation whenever he comes up to bat.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
frankly, I’m surprised he lasted the entire season.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
shirley, you can't be serious
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Kind of like Valhalla
but for heroes with toe rot and torn menisci.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Bochy is totally going to kick your ass now
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 7:42 AM PDT reply actions
Maybe this is an overreaction. Maybe Posey will start next year, and Bochy will live with it, if not encourage it. Maybe he just thinks this season wasn’t the right time to break in a new catcher. The easiest way for the Giants to improve the offense is to replace Bengie Molina’s 281 on-base percentage with something better. The solution is right there. Even if Posey only matches Matt Wieters’ disappointing .287/.336/.406 line, the offense will have taken a huge step forward.
A HARROWING GLIMPSE INTO A POST-APOCALYPTIC FUTURE
This thriller is well-crafted, with a ne’er-do-well villain plotting to undermine the plucky protagonists. Author Grant keeps the tension high throughout, occasionally dabbling in the realm of fantasy, but keeping the general tone anchored firmly in reality.
4/5 stars
Thing C
Even if Posey only matches Matt Wieters’ disappointing .287/.336/.406 line, the offense will have taken a huge step forward.
Sigh, so sad, considering that will be replacing out cleanup hitter…
by Missing Barry on Sep 24, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I laughed, I cried
the must read of the off-season
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
You know Grant, I don't know how you can write stuff like that
without asking Bochy first.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The funny thing, of course, is that we’re apparently playing Bengie Molina and Eli Whiteside because our pitchers are so braindead that if someone other than those two catches them, they won’t remember which pitches they can throw and won’t be able to tell their ass from their armpit. And this is supposed to be one of the best pitching staffs in the majors…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Buster Posey: What’s the sign for a fastball again? Two fingers? And if I waggle my junk that means low and away? Here’s hoping.
/Buster Posey puts down two fingers and waggles his junk.
Tim Lincecum: Did he just put down the signal for a… 6 seam changeup? Man, I didn’t even know I could throw one of those! This is gonna be awesome!
/Tim Lincecum strikes out batter.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
BREAKING NEWS
BUSTER POSEY IS SO AMAZING THAT HE CAN MAKE HIS PITCHERS THROW PITCHES THAT DON’T EXIST.
GIANTS BRAS1
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
This scenario changes rather radically when you substitute in another pitcher.
Buster Posey: What’s the sign for a fastball again? Two fingers? And if I waggle my junk that means low and away? Here’s hoping.
/Buster Posey puts down two fingers and waggles his junk.
Ryan Sadowski: Did he just put down the signal for a… spoogeball? Well, that’s kind of gross, but I guess it’ll probably add another two to three inches drop on my curveball… here goes!
/Ryan Sadowski throws ball to backstop and gets a mound visit from the authorities
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let's take another look at this scenario
We have to assume that Sadowski either
- thought it possible that Posey might call for a spoogeball before the game started and concealed it somewhere on his person just in case.
- Or completely caught off guard by the apparent spoogeball signal, whipped out his junk and managed to deposit the substnce on the ball in the normal amount of time between pitches.
The first possibility seems the most likely. I can’t see how someone wouldn’t try to interrupt Sadowski if he actually unleashed the spooge applicator on the mound in the middle of a game in front of 30,000+ fans.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions
“What’s that on your chest?”
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
TWSS
overkill here, but I can’t help myself
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Can we all agree that Ryan Sadowski is one sick bastard.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 24, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
“you need to put a towel on”
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
by ringleader3 on Sep 24, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL
thank you
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
And then he turned on you with the spoogeball thing.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
NEXT ON ESPN: SPOOGE GEMS!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Pity?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
The Rockers didn't want him.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
But, I thought we won last night because of Whiteside?
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 24, 2009 9:06 AM PDT reply actions
The actual answer is just as improbable!
Jazz Hands 3
Lolbacks 2
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Remember it's not just Bochy
Sabean has a huge veteran catcher fetish himself. That’s why he traded the farm for A.J. and signed Bengie. It may also be why he chose Bochy – the ex catcher – to manage the team. Hopefully Bochy and Sabean will be gone next year and the discussion will be moot. Anyway, Fantastic post. TYVM. You make me a more knowledgeable and thus better fan.
Giant season effort summary:
Was just enough ensure the Dodgers won the division.
Was just little enough to ensure the Giants lost the wild card.
Don’t forget Matheny!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Matheny
I liked the guy, but his signing.
Perfect alignment of veteran intangibleness, pitch calling skillz and Sabean’s crazy roster construction. Wasn’t this $9MM/yr?
The Cardinals fell apart without him
torrealba would’ve been fine, and the money could have been used wasted elsewhere
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Sep 24, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
absolutely he would have been fine
This move killed me.
I’m angry all over again…off to go look at b-ref for stats to make this righteous anger.
Please provide scouting reports, someone, so I don’t make a biased nerd report.
actually
he’d STILL be fine, considering he seems to be headed for the playoffs along with Pedro Feliz, Tyler Walker, and…. oh, I don’t really keep track anymore. Good thing the Yankees got rid of Tomko or he’d be going too.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but he’s going as a backup catcher, which is pretty much what he’s been his whole career, except 2007 when Iannetta wasn’t ready yet. We wouldn’t be better off with Torrealba these last 3 years as our starting catcher, as his production doesn’t compare well to Molina’s.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
I was more mad that Torrealba was about as good as Matheny, but at a fraction of the price, that could be used else where.
absolutely
considering the last two iterations each lost 90 games, maybe an alternate investment would have been wiser. And if Yorvit wouldn’t have batted 4th all year… anyway, they just would’ve wasted the money, and it’s not mine.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt Wieters is apparently up to .290/.340/.417 now…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
But, how is his pitch calling?
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 24, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Completely OT (for jponry and other Grizzly Bear fans)
Have you heard this? A friend forwarded it to me yesterday and I’ve listened to the song probably 30 times since then. Can’t believe how great they sound with one of the founding fathers of Yacht Rock on lead vocals.
"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy
lol yes
So bizarre but it sounds really good once you get used to it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I didn’t think that song could get better. Or any song could be better. But it is!
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Sep 24, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Looks like some organizations have the balls to do what we should do with Aaron Rowand…
Scott Bordow of the East Valley Tribune suspects that the Diamondbacks will consider cutting ties with Eric Byrnes this offseason and would be willing to eat the final year of his three-year, $30MM contract.
Arizona’s outfield is set for 2010, and it doesn’t include the injury-plagued Byrnes. Conor Jackson will start in left field, Chris Young is expected to start in center and Justin Upton will play right. Gerardo Parra, after a fine rookie campaign in 2009, will operate as the fourth outfielder but should find regular playing time.
D’Backs GM Josh Byrnes will certainly try to work out a trade before simply releasing the 33-year-old outfielder, who has played just 76 games this year due to a fractured hand, but it might be hard to find a team willing to take on his salary. “The Diamondbacks will take a lot of grief if they release Byrnes,” concludes Bordow. “But it would be the right thing to do.”
http://valleysports.freedomblogging.com/2009/09/23/d-backs-could-cut-ties-with-eric-byrnes/
Rowand hasn’t played nearly poor enough to warrant being outright cut. And he’s got three years left on his deal… it would be fucking stupid to just release him.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Just to illustrate
Byrnes 08-09: -0.7 WAR, 129 games played, .211/.266/.365
Rowand 08-09: 3.3 WAR, 289 games played, .268/.330/.419
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Right. Rowand is a decent player. He probably won’t be worth his money over the length of his contract, but you only cut guys if they aren’t even worth the roster spot.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
That didn’t turn out to be such a great idea for the Tigers, did it? They’ve gotten a .708 OPS from their DHs this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
The Tigers gave their 1st round pick 6 Mil, vests Magglio’s 18M option, and cut Gary Sheffield.
That might be worse than Brian Sabean.
Speaking of that…
kenny williams
jp richardi
dave dombrowski
mark shapiro
omar minaya
ed wade
dayton moore
jim hendry
I’d say these guys are worse than Sabean. That still doesn’t put Sabean in the top half, btw, but if we had one of the guys above I’d seriously punch a hole in the wall.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Dombrowski had a couple good years turning the Tigers from the 119 loss team to a more competitive team, but he’s been pretty terrible the last few years.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Williams can be faulted for the Rios debacle, but other than that he’s been OK; the ChiSox are a pretty good team IMO
Riccardi should not be employed after Halladay’s trade fell apart
Dombrowski again is a decent GM; the Tigers have made some good signings/trades (Edwin Jackson anyone?) and some bad ones
Shapiro’s trades this year have been iffy, but maybe they work out; at least he figured out early on that they weren’t going to contend and picked up something for Lee and Martinez
Minaya shouldn’t be faulted at all; that team has been horribly unlucky with injuries
Wade likely shouldn’t be back; the Astros have a $100M+ payroll and aren’t sniffing the playoffs.
Moore has made some questionable moves, but he seems to be building towards something, and now that he’s extended through 2014 he can plan things out.
Except for the Bradley and Soriano contracts, Hendry’s been fine (and in all fairness, both of those deals were good ideas at the time).
Honestly, the only guys on this list I wouldn’t want over Sabean are Williams, Riccardi, Wade, and MAYBE Shapiro.
Minaya shouldn’t be faulted at all; that team has been horribly unlucky with injuries
Oliver Perez
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Dayton Moore is horrible. You’re giving him way too much credit. The dude traded for Yunesky Betancourt, ferchissake.
Waiting for Giants and Niners to contend once more.
Moore is the worst GM I’ve ever seen. It would be like Brian Sabean would act if there was nobody out there to criticize the stupid shit he does.
by Missing Barry on Sep 24, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Riccardi should not be employed after Halladay’s trade fell apart
Seeing the prospects that the Cleveland got and how they are holding up, it seems like it was wise to hold onto Holliday. However the Wells contract should have ended JP’s career
Except for the Bradley and Soriano contracts, Hendry’s been fine (and in all fairness, both of those deals were good ideas at the time)
No
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 24, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Saying Kenny Williams is a good GM because the White Sox are a solid team is like Sabean is a good GM because the Giants were good in, say, 2003. This is the same guy who once traded Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik – when Podsednik was coming off a season where his value was -10.3 hitting and -0.6 fielding, even.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Eh, I think Kenny is a pretty good GM. He gets a lot of shit for his bad moves and very little credit for his good ones (and he has made quite a few good ones)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
kenny williams raped his farm system to get locked into a 18M / year contract for Peavy. Then took on Alex Rios contract for no particular reason whatsoever.
He and Richardi are the two worst GM in baseball, in my estimation, and are polar opposites. Kenny Williams is willing to take any and all risks, Richardi is super conservative and will go the safe route every single time, to a fault.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Vernon Wells 7years/$126M (2008-1408:$0.5M, 09:$1.5M, 10:$12.5M, 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M
BJ Ryan 2009: 10,000,000 2010: $10M
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 24, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Those were bad moves but how about…
- getting John Danks and Gavin Floyd for practically nothing
- picking up Bobby Jenks off the scrapheap and giving him the closer job
- Carlos Quentin trade
- signing Alexei Ramirez
- The Jermaine Dye contract has been very good for them, as well as AJP
- the Jim Thome trade has been very good for them as well
- picking up Jose Contreras from the Yankees and then re-signing him – not a slam dunk every year but he got some very useful seasons out of him.
- calling up Gordon Beckham IN A PLAYOFF RACE OMG and letting him play
To call him the WORST GM IN BASEBALL when he’s made that many pretty damn good moves is a ridiculous overstatement. Especially when clowns like Dayton Moore exist.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Like I said, he is the polar opposite of Richardi. Richardi = OMG I have a semi good player must keep at all costs. SIGN LONG TERM DEAL NAO.
Kenny Williams = I’ll trade anybody and everybody on the roster for anything and everything, I’ll take a chance on anything out there. Half of my stuff will work out, the other half wont but I’ll look brilliant and stupid at the same time.
That kind of fluctuation in the franchise is horrible IMO, and it makes it very difficult.
(ps, their farm system is garbage right now. after the peavy trade and beckham promotion, they have nothing. Absolutely nothing. They are astros level)
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
BTW
It’s Ricciardi.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I scored great on my verbal GRE. Whoo!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
How is the GRE, I have to take that in addition to other test now for dual degrees
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 24, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Depends on your strengths. I found the analogies predictably assy, but the written section is really easy if you go in with a basic high school “5 paragraph essay” plan. The math is completely person-dependent. If you know your algebra inside and out and still remember some of the other pre-calc stuff, you should be fine.
It’s definitely worth studying for, though. Doing well is as much about knowing how the test and the test questions work as it actually is about being skilled at math and language things.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Thats true for every test. I totally bombed my first attempt at the MCAT’s b/c I was unprepared for the computer testing style.
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 24, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s gotten the White Sox one WS, one other division title and several other years over .500 so far, so…
He’s not a perfect GM because yeah, he does make some pretty colossally stupid mistakes at times, but he’s done far too many good things as well to be THE WORST GM IN BASEBALL.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I’ll give you that. I just think he is give so much to work with, and he wants to prove he is smarter than everybody else by doing crazy ass shit.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
I think he’s still got a chip on his shoulder from being portrayed as a dumbass in Moneyball, tbh.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I think that’s where I get my influence from. I have an A’s fan friend that has close ties with the A’s front office (mom works with Beane and he often gets to watch games in Beane’s box). He talks about how everyone thinks JP and Kenny are complete idiots all the time.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
I don’t think he’s the worst GM in baseball – I think he’s made some good moves and some really bad moves. He’s kind of like Sabean in that respect.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
I was responding to jctgamer there.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Williams seems like the definition of an average GM.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I can't hold Sabean responsible for no '02 WS title.
If you think that there’s some six degrees of separation thing that works for that – feel freely , I love a good story!
Ya know...ignorance really IS bliss.
Well - I do , anyway.
by victor frankenstein on Sep 24, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Amidst all the GM talk and KLAW chat
It got me wondering….
What if KLAW took over for Sabean next year? Would that be an upgrade? What do you think he would do? Would you like that to happen?
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
At the very least, we’d get some good press quotes.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
The old problem.
“The good is the enemy of the best.” (Well, that’s not exact, but it fits the need.) Rowand is “a decent player”—but you don’t win championships with “decent” players. His overall worth is not significantly different from what one can obtain by the boxcar-load. His career results (especially if one somewhat discounts the Philadelphia park-affected years) are tolerable, not trashy, but that doesn’t butter any parsnips if one wants a solid team.
Meanwhile, Andres Torres is showing, as so often happens, that players ghettoized as “utility” can, when given some playing time, turn in remarkable numbers (Juan who?).
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Andres Torres, even though I quite like him, also currently has a .341 BABIP and is striking out nearly 30% of the time (as well as seeing a solid chunk of his AB this year against LHP, against whom he hits extremely well). I think expecting him to be useful as anything more than a 4th OF next year would be ill-advised.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Not that I disagree with the rest of it, but I don’t think a .341 BABIP sounds crazy out of line for Torres.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
His minor league BABIP since 2005 has been about .358. I think you’re meant to expect more of a drop in the jump from the majors to the minors, but I’m not an expert on these things…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Why? I’ve never heard of anything about this, but I wouldn’t think it would be expected to change.
by kingofthacove on Sep 24, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh I would guess there’s better defense on average in the majors than there is in the minors, even with the odd Brad Hawpe or Adam Dunn running around.
Yeah, and the pitching is better in the majors as well.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
So that means fewer line drives? Seems right, but I haven’t seen stats on it. I don’t even know if I’ve seen LD%, GB%, FB% and so on for the minors.
Maybe so, maybe not.
With all the foofaraw about “seeing what he can do” for the younger guys, one would think a guy like Torres could be cut a little slack. Yes, his BABIP is pretty good, but I really doubt he is a .220 hitter overall. The great bulk of his present offensive value comes not from his BA but from his power and walks (strikeouts mean little), which are normally stable factors.
The platoon differential is of concern, but isn’t that what “seeing what he can do” is all about? As I said elsethread, platoon differentials tend to be come self-fulfilling prophecies, because the player isn’t given the playing time he needs for his “off” side. There does not sem to be enough data yet to show convincingly that Torres’ differential is insuperable.
Research I did some many years ago showed a huge—stunning was my feeling—change in productivity depending on whether a man was getting more or less than half-time play. Lots of “utility guy” types blossom when they get some steady play time. Not all, of course, but quite a few, especially those who picked up the tag early in their careers.
(Remember, most every man who plays a while will have, from sheer chance, a career year and a terrible year; think what happens when the terrible year happens early in his career.)
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Torres is a 31-year old minor league journeyman with a .753 career minor league OPS. There’s not really anything in his minor league statistical record to indicate that his performance this year is anything more than a platoon-enhanced fluke.
He’s a useful player because of his speed and his defensive abilities and because he has some pop. He’s a pretty great fourth OF. But I don’t see much reason to think that he’s good for much more than that over the long run.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
What has he done lately?
His career is 12 years; what he did in 1999 or 2002 is not strongly relevant here. In 2008, in a full season at Iowa (AAA – I don’t recall for sure, but seem to think it’s not a strong offensive park) his OPS was 892. In 2007 at Toledo (I think another non-bandbox park) it was 854. So his current performance is not, after all, some bizarre anomaly.
And another thing: in a sane world, clubs would have four outfielders who each get 75% play time, so they aren’t dragging their asses in September. Torres fits right into that pattern.
Incidentally, on a tangent, the Indians were in the midst of converting Garko to an outfielder, and what little I’ve heard suggests that he was making out fairly well in first left, then right (for which, as a former catcher, he should have the arm). If Guzman really can hit, and can be made into a tolerable first baseman, Garko could get a test drive in right or left.
The defense is open to discussion, but for offense, an OF of Lewis, Schierholtz, Garko, Torres looks pretty fair (especially if someone could teach Schierholtz what a “strike zone” is). . . .
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
The Indians fans that came onto this website right after the trade suggested that Garko’s defense in the outfield was quite hilarious.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
I only know what I read in the papers.
http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/03/ryan_garko_playing_outfield_a.html
http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/03/ryan_garko_has_become_mr_left.html
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/?p=7889
Not cherry-picked: first relevant Google hits from Cleveland.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
I thought you said guys that spend time in the majors and then go back down to the minors always tear it up and therefore you discounted Bowker’s AAA season this year. But before 2007 and 2008 Torres spent parts of 4 different seasons in the majors.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
I thought you said guys that spend time in the majors and then go back down to the minors always tear it up and therefore you discounted Bowker’s AAA season this year. But before 2007 and 2008 Torres spent parts of 4 different seasons in the majors.
I didn’t say “always”, but yes, that’s typically so. But Torres has had ups and downs to the minors over some span of time, and it is only in the past few years that he has shown the offensive increase at any level, which suggests that he has—not surprisingly for a matured, not young, player—learnt a few things. To repeat yet again: his increased value is in power and strike-zone judgement, values that are pretty “sticky”.
I don’t utterly discount Bowker, but I want to see more than a couple of cripple pitches hammered before I decide that there is really Something New there.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
He was 29 and 30 in those two years, in his umpteenth shot at AAA.
His MLEs for those two years were a .698 OPS in 2008 and .666 in 2007.
I’m not sure why you’re putting so much into Torres’s performance as a 29/30 year old in AAA in his 5th and 6th shots at the level and completely discounting Bowker’s incredible performance this year (.842 MLE) in pretty much his first full year at the level.
And EVERYTHING I’ve heard about Garko in the outfield is that it’s a disaster.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Cuz centerfielders who destroy their bodies usually get better with age….riiiiiiight
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
So we should cut him and eat THIRTY-SIX MILLION DOLLARS because he might get worse as he ages?
If you want to eat his whole salary, I’m pretty sure at least a few teams would give up SOMETHING for him in a trade.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
That 36 million is gone.. The hardest thing to do is get over a sunk cost.. Let one of the young guys play center, fuck let Torres play center… So essentially you don’t want to spend the extra two million give or take to have a young cheap guy play better than Aaron Rowand..Amazing
No one is going to take that contract unless we pay half of it..Except maybe a Milton Bradley for Aaron Rowand swap with the Cubs
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
the point is Aaron Rowand is still an average everyday centerfielder. Like you said, the money is gone, but we need to improve the other areas on the team that are below average, not trying to replace the average hitter.
Once our corner outfield, 1B, SS, and 2B situation are above average, you can look at Rowand. Until then, leave him there.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
+2
Other than Pablo, the Giants don’t have anybody else who is an average ML hitter and can field their position. Don’t confuse the limitations of Rowands’ contract with the limitations of Rowand the player.
by San Francisco Slim on Sep 24, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
You think a 31-year old minor league journeyman with a .269 minor league batting average and very little track record of power is better than Rowand?
I don’t like Aaron Rowand, and Torres has surprised me by being useful this year – but wow.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Uh, if you want to eat the ENTIRE contract by dumping him, why not do that in a trade and see if someone will give up something useful to get Aaron Rowand to play for them for free?
LOL “You’d have to pay half the contract to get someone to take him and give up something for him… so we should just cut him altogether and have to pay the whole contract while getting absolutely nothing back!”
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
That’s a best case scenario..I promise you nobody is lining up to trade for aaron rowand..And do you trust Sabean making trades? I don’t
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
The thing is, Rowand has actually been pretty decent this year. If he falls off the cliff, then we can talk about eating his contract. But talking about dumping a guy in the middle of a silly contact when he actually HASN’T BEEN PLAYING BADLY is all kinds of WTF.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Any time you can continue to pay 12 mil a year for an eighth place declining centerfielder you have to do it….Especially when there are better and cheaper options..Give me a break
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Cutting Rowand and signing someone else cannot possibly be cheaper, because we’d still be paying him.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Derrrrr I know it’s not cheaper….But the extra couple mil on top of rowands 12 mil is really a backbreaker? Come on….
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Especially when there are better and cheaper options.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Oh for gods sake you know what I meant.I apologize for one error.
Better and CHEAP options.
You ok now?
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Your entire argument is reactive, knee-jerk, and logic-free, so not really.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
This is kind of a funny argument, though, because I don’t even like Rowand, hated his contract, and am all for eating contracts when it makes sense. It’s just that it doesn’t make any sense at all in this case.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
This is really an argument about understanding the scarcity of centerfielders and about marginal cost. It’s not about Aaron Rowand.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
I like the idea that Rowand is the problem. Rowand’s actually a good player. It sure would be nice to have a corner outfielder who was actually a good player*.
Asterisk: And was allowed to play.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Next you’re going to tell me that if the A’s leave town, the Giant’s payroll won’t double!
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
by ringleader3 on Sep 24, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
for one thing
I don’t understand why he’s hitting 8th. He’s struggling but he’s still probably our third best hitter that’s actually allowed to play.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
He’s a better 8 hitter than Bengie Molina would be.
"Vhet ere-a zee oodds Booster Pusey ifer pleys fur zee Geeunts?"
"He-a vun’t pley unteel he-a gets sume-a mejur leegooe-a ixpereeence-a."
there are better and cheaper options
but you are still paying $12 million.
Situation: 12 M a year average CF
Alternative: Cut said CF sign FA or Trade for a better CF
pay 12 M+potential prospects+additional salary of new CF- league min salary=DO NOT WANT
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 24, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Ok enjoy an outfield of Aaron Rowand, Jason Bay, and clusterfuck of all our other young, cheap OFs in right not getting playing time..Sounds great
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
If Sabeans the GM trust me thats what’s going to happen….And cheno go look at my hypothetical a couple lines down..
Again unlikely but the fact is the team isn’t even thinking about stuff like that cuz its.Twiddle our thumbs pencil Aaron Rowand into centerfield. That’s a terrible mindet
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
What’s wrong with that OF? I actually like it a lot.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
to clarify
Above average LF, Average CF, and hopefully one of Bowker/Schierholtz/Lewis comes out to average or above.
What exactly is wrong with that?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Bay will probably not be worth the money he gets, but it would be a decent outfield.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
Bay will be expensive but it’s not like Crawford or Upton or whoever he wants will be cheap either, especially after taking into account the prospects you’d need to get one or the other.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Absolutely
And I don’t really want any of them at the cost it would take.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
I like the idea of Crawford, but really only if the Rays buy him out – which I don’t think they will do, because I’d be surprised if they wouldn’t be able to at least get something good for him at his option price.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
similarly
keeping him to suck on a daily basis doesn’t save any money either. I get that teams (and rich people that own them) hate paying people to play elsewhere… but I will never get why that’s better than having someone good in the lineup instead.
The Giants need to expand their “Administrative Leave” program from just front office staff and ushers to the players. I’m sure there’s room for a Job Bank under Mays Field somewhere.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
But Rowand really isn’t that bad. The way some people are talking about him here, you’d think he had like a sub-60 OPS+ while playing a corner or something.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
His Warrior Spirit is below replacement level, and his Gamer Level is nowhere near what it was for the Phillies.
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
And his swagger-findification is at an all-time low.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
And you’ve completely misunderstood the concept of sunk cost. Congrats.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
Eating 1/10 isn’t even in the same league as the possibility of eating 3/36.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
This is why GMs get fired…Can’t admit their mistakes so they end up making moves to try to mitigate their stupidity…I’ll say it again that 36 mil isn’t coming back
Be creative..Cut Rowand, Go after a Crawford or an Upton (one of which the Rays are going to have to move) and put him in center..Then play some combo of schierholtz, bowker, lewiz, and velez in the corner spots…
Isn’t that more palatable then leaving Rowand in center and giving Jason Bay 100 million like this stupid team will do..
Is this unlikely? Of course, but Rowands presence prevents the team from even pondering things like this and that is the problem
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
But if you dump Rowand then you still have $36 million the next three years that’s not going to be used for anything. And considering that he’s still about a 2-win player, you could really do a lot worse (see: Wells, Vernon).
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
That’s what your goal should.. Just don’t have the worst overpaid guy! And you are getting something. That spot is now open. You can be more flexible. And maybe oh i don’t know make your team better
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
He’s even more overpaid if you cut him. You still pay the money, now he contributes nothing.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Jesus…..Think outside the box just a little bit. You lose Rowand’s “contribution”. But maybe that spot being open allows you to fill that spot and some others in ways that overall makes the team better.
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
how would cutting rowand
allow the giants to fill CF and some others? why don’t they just keep the CF they have and fill the other spots anyway?
He’s clogging up the OF. We all complain because our young outfielders playing time is being blocked by overpaid, shitty veterans.
Exhibit A..Randy Winn
Exhibit B..Aaron Fucking Rowand
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Torres.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Chasm?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
Andres Torres is a good player who should be given a chance to play baseball.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
as a 4th OF.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Andres Torres is the solution to our problems in center field. I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand about this.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Me neither.
What needs to be noticed is that Torres’ value is primarily in his power and his strike-zone control, which are qualities not generally subject to flukey variations every season the way batting averages are. Both the power and the walks rates are quite unlike his prior ML results, but are things that can be acquired; the point is that there is no reason to think that his present value is just a lucky season—plus he’s an fine fielder, fast on the bases, and heady.
The real OF problem is in right, because Schierholtz’s fielding just doesn’t come close to making up for his lack of strike-zone control.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
I think you're in the sarchasm
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yay!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Exhibit A:Randy Winn
Exhibit A-1: Nate
Exhibit A-2: Bowker
Exhibit B: Rowand
Exhibit B-1: …….
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 24, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
EUGENIO VELEZ
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
That guy he’s blocking isn’t on the team necessarily. Rowand is penciled in at center for the next three years because the front office just accepts it cuz of the money.
Now think for a second. Imagine that you don’t automatically pencil Rowand in there. Maybe you use Sanchez as part of a package to pry Upton or Crawford away from the A’s or look around the majors for outfields that are clogged with actually quality players. The Orioles for example.
Rowands presence doesn’t even allow for these discussions to come up and potentially make the team better.
And before you start tearing into the trade Sanchez part. I’m not saying this is what they should do, but because of Rowand and the well we overpaid gotta stick with it mindset, this stuff can’t even be explored
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
The apostrophe is replacing another s.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
So you’re saying we should cut Rowand and just hope we get somebody better?
Ok.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Cheno Way-
“Bend over and take it cuz I know it’s coming”
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
But wait, that’s what you’re saying.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
Most of the time something is better than nothing.
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Not in this case.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
As a general principle, that’s debatable.
Also, you aren’t really doing something. You’re just yapping on a website with a bunch of other baseball nerds.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Did I ever say I was doing something?
MCC where twisting words to make a snide remark happens….
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Making a move because you “have to do something” is exactly the kind of thinking that results in the Barry Zito contract, or the Mike Hampton contract, or Sidney Ponson, or…
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Actually no what I’m saying is the complete opposite…Those moves had no sunk cost already in them. They were avoidable. Aaron Rowands 36 mil is unavoidable
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Huh?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
Cheno go back to the kids table. The adults are talking
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think the concept of sunk cost is as obscure as you seem to think it is.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I think he’s confusing ignore sunk costs (please!) with ignore marginal costs (dear lord, no!).
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
We have a seat saved for you at the kids table.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
When did I ever say sunk cost was obscure? More we all have the same opinion, throw out random, made up points to make snide remarks against the person I’m arguing with. Just post a stupid, unfunny GIF, and you’ve hit the MCC trifecta
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
'stupid unfunny gif' GIS result
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
This makes me miss Psycho Family Circus.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 24, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Grant. If you didn’t write thoughtful posts and run the site I just might mock you for this fail
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
He would never recover.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
That a boy Cheno. Defend your fearless leader, drink the Kool Aid, think all the same thoughts as every1 else
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
The Jonestown people actually drank an off-brand knock-off called Flavor-Aid.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
what flavor?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
You sure it wasn’t furniture maker flavored?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Wikipedia says grape.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
Allright, I can handle that. Where do I get mine?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Anton Newcombe drinks straight vodka.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 24, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
a) You believe the Giants aren’t going to try to replace Rowand because he makes so much money, so you’d just prefer that he’s released.
b) You make this belief a secret, hiding it behind a message of “release Rowand”
c) This doesn’t make sense unless there’s a backup plan, as the Giants’ orgnaization isn’t flush with centerfielders. And, no, Velez doesn’t count.
d) When you meet resistance to b) that wouldn’t have come if you didn’t make a) a secret, you act like a whiny child, . Yeah, I’m a cult leader. We all share ideas off the site so we’re prepared when an original-thinking iconoclast like you comes around to challenge us.
by Grant Brisbee on Sep 24, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
We all share ideas off the site
Asshole. E-mail me.
by Grant Brisbee on Sep 24, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
OH SNAP
Grant lays down the law.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
You added an extra f on the end of .gif, Grant
Here you go:
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
by jcb9 on Sep 24, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
One of my favorite bits on that show.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
by can of corn on Sep 24, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
What is this?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
It’s from How I Met Your Mother.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF1b1pf9DRY
(and I’m kinda gay for Cobie Smulders)
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
by can of corn on Sep 24, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
EXCLAMATION
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 24, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
You don’t know what sunk costs are, stop talking about them.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
If they get someone else, then they can cut Rowand (or move him to right or trade him and eat some salary).
Cutting him first is like burning down your house and hoping someone builds you a new one.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Sabean signed Rowand when he already had a sunk cost “pencilled in” as our center fielder – Dave Roberts. If Rowand becomes a sunk cost, they can and should consider doing the same thing….except without the part about giving a ridiculous contract to an enh player. It’s just that WE’RE NOT THERE YET.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
First reasonable argument I’ve heard.
Fair enough, I just think the decline is inevitable.
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Including from yourself?
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
Cheno you’re worthless. You don’t even argue. You just type little snippy comments and then go back to hiding under your desk.
by DFAAurillia on Sep 24, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
with all due respect to the fact that we have no alternatives in center (please don’t say Torres ever again)…
if you believe Rowand’s decline is inevitable, wouldn’t that be the whole reason to explore TRADING him for whatever you can get – based on the theory that one is actually more valuable before one declines – as opposed to CUTTING him at his perceived higher value?
I’m scratching my head at basically all of your arguments, but that’s the biggest one for me.
Again?
Explain again what is wrong with Torres? OK, he seems to have a significant platoon differential (though we can’t be sure till he’s had substantial playing time batting left); so what? All in all, he’s still fine, and not that old. And, as noted above, his offense qualities, power and walks, are not the sort that vary widely from year to year.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Torres is good as a number 4 outfielder. I enjoy his energy in the field, and I know that when he’s playing if Lewis, Velez, Schierholtz, or Bowker have problems with a catch in the corners, Torres will be right behind them swooping up the bobble. That said, I don’t think Torres is an everyday player, I don’t think he could keep that work effort going on a daily basis, he would slow down, his bat would slow down, and we’d all dogpile on the the Torres is not the answer bandwagon.
But . . .
unlike the others, Torres has not really had a chance yet, so any conjecture on what he could or couldn’t do is just that: conjecture. Why would he be any more unable to keep up his level of play, field and bat, on an everyday basis than any other now-everyday player? What is so supposedly fragile about him?
I don’t claim he’s a lock, but he sure looks good, and good pickings are scarce on the ground right now for this team. Try cooking what’s in the pot before going shopping.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
Well, considering he’s had two DL stints this year despite sporadic playing time would seem to indicate that he’s at least somewhat injury prone.
And I disagree that Nate, Bowker and Lewis have gotten fair shots. Hell, even Velez hasn’t really had enough consistent major league ABs yet to know what kind of player he really is.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
We must agree to disagree.
A hammie pull does not make a man “injury prone”; very little does save some permanent or high-recurrence injury.
Schierholtz and Lewis have shown us what they have; some are claiming that Bowker has been Reborn, but I think that he, too, has shown us what he has. Lewis has a good bat—not great, not ideal for a corner player, but acceptable. Schierholtz is a surprisingly poor offensive player who could really be something if he ever found the strike zone (but his entire career militates against that hope). Bowker is just too vulnerable to down-and-in and breaking pitches. Velez is another standard Giants player: I don’ gotta show you no stinkin’ walks. He’s not a terrible hitter, but then neither is Aaron Rowand. But this is not the stuff of which champions are made.
On a strong team, a Fred Lewis could fit in, and so could Andres Torres. The others? No.
Professional baseball analyst since 1980.
If You Want To Think Outside The Box
How about considering playing Rowand as our catcher. Hit bat would play better at the position and he would have fewer opportunities to run into walls so his body would hold up better.
This would also solve several other holes by allowing Benjie Molina to move to first base, Posey to play short stop, and Edgar Renteria could be our new center fielder. If an aging Shawon Dunston could make the transition to outfield, so can Renteria.
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
by Outside The Box Thinking on Sep 24, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Get back in there, you.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
indeed- let me help
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s what your goal should.. Just don’t have the worst overpaid guy
I think the problem here is that you need to write more inside the box. Our only guide to what you are thinking is what you write.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
You are talking about a luxury. Yes the Red Sox and the Yankees have that luxury of cutting Julio Lugo and turn the page. The Giants don’t.
They need to fix the other issues first. THEN go back to Rowand if there are money leftover. Right now, Rowand is not even on page 47 of the list of things to fix.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
maybe when it is two and 24
we trade Rowand for a minorleague backup catcher.
If Rowand was at least sharing time with the younger OFs some of us would feel better. Which is not a team goal, I realize.
cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"
by foothillsfan on Sep 24, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Odds the Giants sign Byrnes?
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
He grew up a Giants fan, fans will love having him around!
by Missing Barry on Sep 24, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Less than KNBR signing Eric Byrnes. Move over Damon “Cousin” Bruce-y.
"The dreams ain't broken down here now, they're walking with a limp" --TW
That douchebag is going to be even more insufferable during the Cubs series.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Kind of weird given that Chris Young has been terrible and no one seems to know when Conor Jackson will ever be able to play again.
shit
Get ready for two to three years of Byrnes.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
As skeptical as I am about Giants management...
It is possible that they brought him up just so that he can get a feel for the majors.
And that they still feel he needs more seasoning.
Putting him in or keeping him out has nothing to do with trying to win, but making making sure they don’t disrupt his development.
I know it’s hard to fathom that the Giants would do such a thing. But just accept the possibility.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 24, 2009 10:00 AM PDT reply actions
You seem to ignore how little he would need to do to improve upon Molina’s performance of late. Grant pointed it out, and while it’s a SSS, it’s IMO fair to consider it because:
- He’s tired, overworked, and out of shape
- Purportedly not trying very hard
- Not really very good
"The dreams ain't broken down here now, they're walking with a limp" --TW
but making making sure they don’t disrupt his development.
Isn’t him sitting on the bench preventing him from getting actual PT in other places? Not sure how even a demented group of thinkers like Sabean could possibly justify that logic.
by Missing Barry on Sep 24, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
He could have had a few weeks worth of at bats on one of the minor league affiliate playoff teams.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Wasn’t he slated to play on Team USA or something like that?
by Missing Barry on Sep 24, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
He was.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
How much 'feel for the majors' is needed?
If this was a routine thing in baseball, that’d be one thing. But dozens of rookies – even catchers – are brought up each year and play right away. Why would Posey need a special kind of seasoning that 99.9% of MLB prospects don’t seem to need?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Even when the prospects only had a full season in the minors?
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 24, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
This is a player that played 3 years of college ball.
He is no 19 yo prospect. He is Matt Wieters, part deux.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Hot Shots Part Deux
Another one…
“I’m not saying I don’t trust you, and I’m not saying I do. But I don’t.”
/has given up on this season.
Well, usually those prospects aren't brought up at all.
They’re left in the minors to develop by actually playing. Can anyone name any other cases where a guy was brought up specifically to get him major league bench-sitting (okay, and bullpen catching) experience in the name of development?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
The actually playing part is important.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Please explain how putting him in or keeping him out "disrupts his development." Serious question.
I don’t get it. If you’re thinking risk of injury, then no player should ever be played because that risk is constant. If you’re thinking risk of psychological harm, I would say that nothing supports this hypothesis— by the time anyone reaches MLB, he has endured lots of bad streaks, days in which he is just off, errors, disappointments, et cetera. Baseball is simply that kind of game.
And that’s assuming he would do poorly, which is a guess. So maybe I’m just not seeing your point— what is the risk of disrupting his development that you are concerned about?
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 24, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
not sure I understand
how letting him catch three innings here or there is going to retard his development. I can get limiting his at bats (although I hope someone who is supposed to be such a phenom wouldn’t be ruined by batting once in a while in an actual game). But I don’t get why, f’r instance, one would doubleswitch whiteside into a game. Posey could play in all sorts of games… pinch hit for the starting catcher, let Posey replace the catcher, and when the catcher turn comes up again in the order, PH again. Botchy should like that, it’s a quadrupleswitch.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't say that Posey wouldn't be an obvious upgrade.
Because I recognize that he would be.
My point was that it may not have anything to do with ‘trying to win’, but more to do with not disrupting his development.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 24, 2009 10:06 AM PDT reply actions
I don’t see how letting him get a couple of starts down the stretch would disrupt his development though.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
It seems possible that he will get a start.
Once the Giants are eliminated.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 24, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
So then doesn’t that refute your “has nothing to do with trying to win” claim?
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I wasn't exactly making an argument for that.
I actually want to see him play.
I was trying to think like bork.
Now my brain hurts.
But really, when you think like bork, his rebuttal would simply be: “No, that doesn’t refute my claim. It’s just putting him in low-pressure situations, which doesn’t hinder his development (in my retarded eyes).”
I just don’t want to make everything some huge conspiracy between Bochy and Sabean… I just prefer to think that they’re stupid, which is the likeliest case.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 24, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Not playing is disruptive to a player’s development.
You could be right about the Front Office’s oddly malformed decision making process though…
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
What if he will?
It seems more and more possible that he will
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 24, 2009 10:07 AM PDT reply actions
Love conquers everything but the Reply button. :~)
"The dreams ain't broken down here now, they're walking with a limp" --TW
The reply button can kiss my ass.
Except for this one time.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 24, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Pardon my ignorance
But could this have been done to keep Posey off of Team USA?
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
That seems silly. I’m pretty sure the org could have just said they didn’t want him on it. And what reason would they have for keeping him off it anyway?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
So he can caddy for Bengie and Eli, duh. ; )
Noonan. Nooooonan!
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Sep 24, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I dunno
I just saw the boxscore the other day and saw Smoak & Alvarez and thought “Posey should be on that team”. Maybe they don’t want him to get hurt?
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
They send powerhouses like Geno Espineli.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
And brings all the Asian fans to the ballpark!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
We sure are bringing the Asian stereotypes this week.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
That’s actually his milkshake doing that.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
FUCK! I REALLY NEED TO READ OTHER PEOPLE’S COMMENTS BEFORE I MAKE THE SAME JOKE THEY ALREADY MADE! THAT’S LIKE THE THIRD TIME THIS WEEK!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL @ Howie Fail
When are we going to admit that Howie just doesn’t have it anymore. We all appreciate what he has done for MCC in the past but Grant keeping him on in 09 is just sad.
/has given up on this season.
I would like to point everyone to my spooge joke in this thread as evidence that I do, in fact, still have it. So I drop the ball every once in a while? Who doesn’t?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
You just used a spooge joke as an example of your value.
HOW FAR HAVE YOU FALLEN, HOWIE? HOW FAR?!
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I didn’t realize that spooge was considered low brow. I mean, unless that’s where you were aiming.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Geno
But wow the US mails it in every damn tournament.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I heard Posey didn't want to play on it.
Could be wrong though.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 24, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Pitching vs Cubs (OT?)
I’m sure it will come up in the series preview, but Lincecum vs. Zambrano Friday should be a gem,
and Lily vs TBA (MadBum you figure on Sunday?) should be cool as well (especially if Madison gets
some ABs).
"The dreams ain't broken down here now, they're walking with a limp" --TW
if Whiteside catches that game, they need to bat Bumgarner 8th
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Or for that matter, if Molina catches that game…
by Missing Barry on Sep 24, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
What did I miss? Why is it TBA instead of Cain?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
by ringleader3 on Sep 24, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
they are thinking of giving bumgarner a start if the giants are out of it by then
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Ahh makes sense.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
by ringleader3 on Sep 24, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Should be an easy dicision since they have been out of it for a while now.
/has given up on this season.
Cubs fans should ensure big crowds.
"The dreams ain't broken down here now, they're walking with a limp" --TW
Cool, I’m going to that game. I was hoping to see Cain but MadBum would be great as well. I’ll hope against hope that Posey gets the start along with him.
This gives me a sad.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Me too
first time ill be getting out there since last season.
Timmy is my Man-crush
by Fan from Sac on Sep 24, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
But...but...
…they can’t be out of it before Sunday…the elimination number is 7, at worst it’ll be at 1 which would just make Sunday a MUST WIN game.
Although maybe they’ll be out of it enough to start Bumgarner, just not enough out of it to start Posey.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Great Idea
let’s bat TBA at cleanup and let Cain pitch.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Relevant tweets from the great Dan Dibley
@timkawakami How many games have you seen him catch? I’ve seen how he frames pitches in person Buster 2K10 Do ur due diligence TK
@timkawakami Now is not the time to watch Posey get MLB-ready behind the plate. It’s winning-time. Buster will get his chance
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
what the fuck is a Dan Dibley?
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
In the few innings I’ve seen him, I’ve been really impressed with his pitch framing.
I’m pretty sure that it’s hard to tell if you’re not watching the game on TV though, so I’m guessing Dan Dibley has seen Buster’s pitch framing about as much as everyone else.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yep
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I’m willing to believe that Posey’s framing is not up to snuff. I would be really surprised if that really made a big enough difference to start Eli Whiteside’s noodle bat over him.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Molina’s framing is porous
Half awake, half baked
by Giant Homer on Sep 24, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Framing seems like something that only makes a difference every so often. Iono, though. Really? We’re talking about pitch framing?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
No. Pitch framing.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Jesus F Christ. How do these ding dongs get work and I’m stuck writing about the goddamn Jamestown Jammers? Seriously. WTF is a Jammer?
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
If this is a real question, check out the team’s logo for clues.
If this is a rhetorical question, your observation is pretty funny.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
LOL SURLY GRAPE
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
by ringleader3 on Sep 24, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
It was rhetorical. I searched the website for purple stuff to send to my mom, but came up with nothing.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
The grossest “orange” juice ever made.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Citrus juice?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Whatever the fuck it is, it tastes like fruit poo.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
SunnyD is delicious, man.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Not to me.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Or me
Tang>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SunnyD
And I hate tang
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 24, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, I hate the Tang drink mix not the other typ
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 24, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Moises Alou
says pee is better than them all
Sunny D is a) super good, and b) waaaaay better than Tampico, so just be glad you’re not drinking Tampico.
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Sep 24, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
more delicious than real OJ?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
by ringleader3 on Sep 24, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Nah.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
SO WHY DOES IT EXIST?!
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
by ringleader3 on Sep 24, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
OJ is too busy looking for the real killers. He has no time to be dellicious.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
SHUT UP AND EAT YOUR EGGROLL!
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Last night I woke up and it was smelling my hair.
by chilibean_3 on Sep 24, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
how can a joke I first saw the late 90’s still make me laugh? but it does.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Agreed.
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 24, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
The second I typed that I thought of the Sunny D ad.
I wonder if they make Purple Stuff out of Jammers in Jamestown.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Sent me to wikipedia...
…which offers this wisdom:
In the offseason before the 2006 season, in an attempt to put an end once and for all to the “what is a Jammer?” questions, the Jammers changed their logo to a cartoon grape theme. The new logo represents the strong tradition of grape-growing in Chautauqua County. On June 19, the eve of opening day, the team officially announced the name of its new mascot: Bubba Grape, the Baseball Ape.
I guess they didn’t put an end to it once and for all.
Also: “Bubba Grape, the Baseball Ape”? Really?
Also: it says that the fans voted for Jammers over other contenders including the Lucys (after Jamestown native Lucille Ball) and (my favorite) the Furniture Makers. Just think of the cheers that one could have inspired!
“GO TEAM!!! MAKE SOME FURNITURE!!!”
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
i remember this meme from a long time ago...
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Does this relate to
HEY GUYS ITS JI
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Said Mckenzie Phillips to John Phillips
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 24, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
OH NO
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 24, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Seriously
What the hell is up with young television stars from the 70s/80s?
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
Drugs.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
Free Love
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Too Soon
Wait until the giants are out of this.
Said Mckenzie Phillips to John Phillips
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 24, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
My favorite thing about minor league baseball is the strange team names and logos. Montgomery Biscuits ftw
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Sep 24, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s got a slice of butter for a tongue! Cherish it!
I almost bought a Montgomery Biscuits sweatshirt, but I couldn’t tell from the website if the mascot was large enough to be seen.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
awesome
can’t have enough Monty Biscuit postings!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s a position in Roller Derby.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
kinky
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Sep 24, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
God, I hate the way people write on Twitter.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
@jcb9
i hatee u 2 u r 5
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Sep 24, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
But Posey already is MLB ready behind the plate. Dumb.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
OT: There were Red Sox fans in my section last night and they were obnoxious and stupid. “Oh yeah well in Fenway …”. Then they started loudly yelling at this young kid becuase he was wearing a Yankees hat.
/has given up on this season.
Stupid and obnoxious Red Sox fans? Now I’ve seen everything!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
in Rome, do the Romans
Wait…
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
To the vomitorium!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I’m confused. Are we in this thing or are we not in this thing? And if we’re in this thing, what exactly is the thing that we’re in? And if we’re not in this thing, is there a way that we can get back in this thing? And if we can’t get back in this thing, will we be in this thing next year?
We are NOT in this thing (unless the thing is a thing that doesn’t make it to the playoffs).
/has given up on this season.
So technically, as long as everyone remains vague about what the thing is, we can always say we’re in this thing!
by deuce deuce on Sep 24, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I think pulling the “We’re In” ad campaign last night in favor of “Let’s Play” is pretty much conceding.
--
Long ago they came west over the mountains, and I have rooted for them years uncounted; and together through many ages of this world we have fought the long defeat.
by shanghaijim on Sep 24, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
We ARE this thing.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Giants were in this thing
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
My theory...
…is that we’re actually BEHIND this thing. So, if you’re on the opposite side of this thing, it looks like we’re in it. But someone who’s actually in this thing would be able to see clearly that we are not in it.
I could illustrate with diagrams, but I’m really lazy.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Unless you're in or between us and this thing
It looks like we’re in it.
"Vhet ere-a zee oodds Booster Pusey ifer pleys fur zee Geeunts?"
"He-a vun’t pley unteel he-a gets sume-a mejur leegooe-a ixpereeence-a."
this thing = 3rd place and out of the playoffs. but at least we’re missing the playoffs with the guys who got us there.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
i ferget what this thing is
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Sep 24, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Important to remember, though, is that Bochy has just as stubbornly left Bengie Molina in the cleanup spot, which suggests not that Bochy is catchercentric but that Bochy thinks Molina is really really really good.
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
Yankees are crazy. Cashmen says Joba has to step it up? WTF you baby him and then abuse him and the baby him again and then call him out?
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 24, 2009 11:36 AM PDT reply actions
OK WTF IS WRONG WITH THIS SITUATION
WASHINGTON — The FBI is investigating the hanging death of a U.S. Census worker near a Kentucky cemetery, and a law enforcement official told The Associated Press the word ‘fed" was scrawled on the dead man’s chest.
Investigators are still trying to determine whether the death was a killing or a suicide
Like, seriously?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/23/census-worker-hanged-with_n_297114.html
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
I bet the killers are a bunch of real old-school types who don’t want to hear about our fancy modern stats.
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Sep 24, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
wait, no kicks to the groin, so he is innocent
I R 5
by say hey nation on Sep 24, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
a law enforcement official told The Associated Press the word ‘NERD" was scrawled on the dead man’s chest.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Not to single you out, oldjacket
The whole tangent was starting to get to me.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
the poor dead man is obviously trying to identify his killer as Kevin Federline
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
This whole thing bothers me tremendously.
I actually made it my Facebook status yesterday. This is real. First off, I doubt that the date of the killing, 9/12, is coincidental— glenn beck had a famous 9/12 movement, and his target demo is insane. Also that idiot Michelle Bachmann has been feeding an anti-Census media beast (her constituents must love that they will get less federal teat milk because she has a double-digit IQ and a triple-digit delusion quotient). Killing a census guy on 9/12 just seems too exquisitely perfect to these wackos for it be coincidence.
A single father, 51 years old, making money to finish his college degree and get a teaching certificate. BRAVO, right wing domestic terrorists. Way to strike a blow for your retarded and wrong-headed misconception of “freedom.”
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 24, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
It can’t be domestic terrorism. No turbans.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
We are SO much more at risk from horrible, violent American citizens than we are from furriners.
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 24, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
gang members
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Don’t even get me started on the idiocy that seems to be 85% of the American public. I can’t tell if it’s a function of my getting older …and everything appearing to be more dumbed down, ridiculous, narcissistic, and money grubbing or if it really is that way.
When I was younger it didn’t seem to me that EVERYTHING was about making tons of money no matter the cost in resources, lives, or ethics… bah!
Everything sucks! and Get Off My Lawn!!!
You do remember the 80’s, right?
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Blame the Neocons. They are very convenient for that sort of thing.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Lunch. WUT U GOT?
Going to Greek place. Probably have a gyro with tzatziki sauce.
/has given up on this season.
I picked up Bakesale Betty’s fried chicken sandwiches before work.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
ohman! Awesome!
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
by ringleader3 on Sep 24, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
unf unf unf
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 24, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Ricola!!!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Sep 24, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
some sort of taco, either going down the ferry building, or to a taco truck.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
by ringleader3 on Sep 24, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
they have booths selling food for the farmers market on Tuesdays and Thursdays (and Saturday I think)
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 24, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
There is an awesome taco place on the backside too… It’s called Mijita
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
No burrito, just tacos, i think. Very small menu. It was started by Traci Des Jardin, the lady you brought you Jardinere in Hayes Valley.
http://www.mijitasf.com/ <—- warning flash website (I hate those)
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
Ginger/carrot soup with french bread and grapes.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Going to Dos Pinos for a burrito
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Leftover pork chops from dinner last night.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 24, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I think I am getting the flu. No lunch for me today.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 24, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions