Is there any way we could get Carl Crawford or BJ Upton
by Mike Fox on Sep 19, 2009 12:03 PM PDT
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PrintFirst I would like to say that it made me mad seeing all these teams acquiring hitters the Giants could have got to Help us win. I wish we got Thome, Giambi, and God Matt Holliday, and I wish Jermaine Dye. Here is a chance to get an all star, great hitter ,and base stealer. I would not want to trade Madison, but we have to try don't we. The Giants owe it to the fans to at least make an attempt to make us a winner. As good as our pitching is, pitching doesn't win look at the phillies. Carl Crawford is a game changer, if we get Crawford or BJ our chances of winning will sky rocket. I would rather get BJ because he would be easier to get and he is very versittle, and maybe a change of scenery will help him like it helped Matt Holliday. He can be a great player and he is young. Come on Giants go for one of these guys. Lastly I hope that this offseason the Giants actually sign a good player instead of signing someone way over the hill to a bad contract for 2 yrs like Rentaria BUST
PS does anyone want the Giants to resign Sanchez
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FWIW
Buster Olney said on KNBR that Crawford’s option wouldn’t be picked up by the Rays and that he’d become a free agent.
I’d LOVE Crawford on this team especially power guys like Holliday or Bay are too expensive for us.
The thing I like most about Crawford is that his skillset would translate better to our ballpark than a lot of guys because of the kind of player he is.
With malice towards the Dodgers
after ridding themselves of kazmir’s contract i don’t see any way they don’t pick up crawford’s option. he’s pretty valuable on a 1 year deal at that price.
FREE BUSTER
by TimLincecumIsGod on Sep 19, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
They have Desmond Jennings waiting in the wings, who could be a nice replacement for Crawford. I’m not sure how the Ray’s financial situation really is. Their low attendance can’t be helping anything
With malice towards the Dodgers
However, Jennings could also be a replacement for Upton who they’re pretty openly blasting through their mainstream media contacts. There’s been a slate recently of “Upton’s loafing through the end of the season is poisoning the clubhouse” comments which seem to be sowing the PR field for a potential Upton trade this winter.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
If the Rays had both Jennings and Crawford in the same lineup, holy shit that would be some speed. They wouldn’t even need 3 outfielders. Jennings in left center, Crawford in right center, then just add another infielder. Would be genius
With malice towards the Dodgers
If the Giants got Thome or Giambi, I’d just vomit.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
Giants won’t do that. Absolutely no point to. Hopefully Bowker will be the power guy off the bench if he isn’t starting. (Also Bowker can actually play defense unlike Giambi and Thome)
With malice towards the Dodgers
Crawford would be cool. The Rays aren’t trading Upton. You clearly haven’t followed Jermaine Dye this year. And also:
As good as our pitching is, pitching doesn’t win look at the phillies.
There is just so much wrong with this statement it’s mind-bottling.
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
Pitching wins. When Pitching doesn’t win, it is because there isn’t enough pitching.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
OT
What’s the difference between mind-bottling and mind-boggling? I never know the proper time to use each so i just stick to latter.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
It's from the movie Blades of Glory
Will Ferrell said “it’s mind bottling-when your thoughts get trapped-like in a bottle”
Grab Some Pine Meat!
Mind bottling is never right.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
“You know, when things are so crazy it gets your thoughts all trapped, like in a bottle?”
FREE BUSTER
by TimLincecumIsGod on Sep 19, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s a reference to “Talladega Nights” I believe.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Sep 19, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
will ferrell’s one and only funny movie.
FREE BUSTER
by TimLincecumIsGod on Sep 19, 2009 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions
He has a funny one ?
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
You know he was funny in Zoolander
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
He was funny in “Old School” as well. I think he’s funny in a supporting role, but not good enough to be a star. Same thing with Jack Black. He was funny in a couple of supporting roles, but in a starring role, his overracting and forced funniness becomes really obnoxious.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
Love it. He was funny in Wedding Crashers too.
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
by NuschlerFace on Sep 20, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
if you don’t think Anchorman is funny, then you have failed as a person.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 21, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I didn’t laugh once during the first hour and 20 minutes of that movie. I was just zoned out on the humor. Then Vince Vaughn did his scene at the end “And today we spell redemption R-O-N” And when he dropped his mic & walked away I was rolling for the next 20 minutes. I watched it a couple weeks later cracking up throughout the film.
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
He was pretty epic in The Ladies Man.
by dannyschmanny on Sep 24, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Have you ever seen the AFLAC commercial with Yogi ? The one where the duck shakes his head after "If you don’t have it , That’s when you really need it " . That’s how I feel after hearing the phrase “Mind-Bottling” :-)
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
how come the black Dusty Baker looking guy sees the duck, and nobody else? Does he have some kind of super powers? There should be an investigation.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
Is there a "White" Dusty Baker? 70's flashback....
“Grandpa, Jimmy says I’m prejudiced. What does that mean?”
“Who’s Jimmy?”
“Jimmy is one of my Jewish friends.”
“Well, then you are prejudiced, because you think of Jimmy as your Jewish friend, and not just as your friend.”
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Crawford would be fine
But if he will be obtained in a bidding war, the giants wont get him. They spend to much on washed up middle of the road guys.
Up the middle
The Giants need to prioritize improving themselves up the middle. Sometime in 2010 Buster Posey could become the catcher however we still have Edgardo Renteria ($9M), Fred Sanchez ($8M), and Aaron Rowand ($12M).
Would believe the Giants try to work a new deal with Sanchez but is it really worth it? Who do the Giants have to replace him at 2b? Renteria is signed thru 2010 and Rowand is signed for another 3 seasons. Is Kenny Williams creative enough to unload the Alexis Rios contract for both Renteria and Rowand?
Sanchez is not worth what the Giants will give him (and I believe will sign him to a new deal). It would have been nice to see what Kevin Frandsen could have done. He’s not that good, but Sanchez isn’t likely to be, either. He’s on the slippery slope…perfect fit for Sabean.
Wny would anyone (other than Sabean) want Renteria and Rowand? At least Rios is a somewhat useful major league player.
let me get this straight
you’re saying that rios is more useful than freddy sanchez? how? sanchez can still be good for a couple of more years, although he defintely isn’t worth 8 million. do you have a second base option?
So you think this spat of injuries in July and August is nothing to be concerned about? I respectfully disagree. And if you can’t play you are not productive. If you are too banged up and should not by playing you get ’09 Renteria.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Sep 20, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
i'm not incredibly concerned
maybe if it recurs, then probably. but rios? really? have you seen his numbers this year? he’s pretty much useless. his a worse version of rowand with a HORRIBLE contract and zero production
Rios glove has stayed solid. Rios does take the field regularly. We can debate how much wieght to give his Biap vs his Average tell the cows come home and when are bored of that try and find a number of angles that dance ona pin head at one time. I would say, in a vacum, Rios is much more likley to produce more value in the 2010-2012 campains then Fred Sanchez. If for no other reasons than Rios can play 1100+ innings in teh field and do it at more demanding defensive postion ( CF).
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
that's fine
but its that huge contract that gets me everytime. wouldn’t it limit us from signing other players. whereas this year, with sanchez, we could buy him out, offer him a cheap deal(1/3-4 maybe?), and if he declined we could get a pick.
I think we are digging up the dead here. Rios is not an option and I don’t think the White Sox will let him be availible for a while. Though i would say finding a “meh” Cf is a lot harder then findinga “meh” 2nd baseman. And the same would be true of exceptional ones off both positions.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
Amazing
Its mind boggling that people can even think that “Sanchez isn’t likely to be that good.” Until he got hurt this year, he had 105 hits in 86 games AND plays above average defense. Who the hell is a good second basemen if that is “not that good”? And where are we going to get him without paying through the roof and/or giving up draft picks?
Rennie Stennett man. And Stennett was younger when the Giants took a chance on him. I am not saying Sanchez will be complete crap but will even merit the price of Alderson is still truly up for debate. Let alone the specter of the Giants pay $17MM for 2 ’09 Renteria’s in the middle infield in 2010.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Sep 20, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
He sucked for 2 solid years before the Giants “took a chance on him.” How does that compare to a guy that was on pace for 200 hits this year before he got hurt? And the Giants still have nothing to replace him. Frandsen isn’t that good, Uribe is a FA that will get well paid to start somewhere, and thats it for the organization
1) Stennnett had surgery to “fix” his hurt. And he was age 29. That was the taking chance.
2) At Sanchez’s age he has probably Jumped the Shark. He might have one more hellishious season left in him. If he does though we will probably crash and burn just a terribly as Stennet did in his last 2 years. That is just the normal career arc of a 2nd baseman. Just what do you see that makes you think, not feel, Snachez will be the exception to the normal career arc of 2nd baseman because I am not seeing anything to support that hypothieses.
As for what I want them to do it has a lot to do with will the budget stay the same? Will we have a new manager? Will we have new GM? I have to have some feel on those 3 items before I can tell you anything more specific beside avoid committing much to this guy.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
I see that his speed has returned and his defense hasn’t suffered so the knee issue was not as awful as everyone feared. He is also still hitting a lot of line drives. He had one of the roughest 1/5s the other night in recent memory. Five hard hit balls, one hit to show for it. Combine that with how well he was hitting before the trade, and I don’t see any reason his career is about to crash and burn. Moving to AT&T isn’t going to hurt his numbers because he doesn’t hit for that much power anyway. If anything the larger alleys should help him out.
Not all second basemen begin to fail like an obscure giants second basemen from the 70s. Hopefully Sanchez continues hitting for years to come like Sandberg or Jeff Kent did
The shoulder and the back nicks and dings are as valid, if not more so, then just the knee issue. Ignore them are your own peril.
As for Stennett being an obscure Giants second baseman perhaps you should learn a bit more about your teams past. He was the first major Free Agent signing the Giants made. He was considered to be rather good actually. And like the 78-79 Giants the current Team has very little in terms of in system help for second (or SS for that matter). The team opted to risk on a guy returning to what he was and invested quite a bit into that risk. It failed even more then the Renteria contract did this year and tied up a much higher percentage of team resources then Renteria has as well. If Sanchez costs $8MM for 2010 or $12MM for 2010 & 2011 I would much rather have that to offer as part of a package to Holiday. It is a much better gamble.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
You really considered him “rather good” after the broken leg? He had batted under .250 the previous two seasons and had zero speed or power left
I have no problems with Sanchez at second base. I’m among the ‘Play Frandsen’ group, but even I’ll say that the team will get more out of Sanchez than Frandsen; the other options do not look any better.
Outside of shortstop, I’d say the corners are more need, particularly left field and first base. Rowand isn’t what we’re paying for, but the salary’s not going anywhere and frankly, he’s not the biggest problem on this team…or the fifth biggest.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Sep 20, 2009 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Your first paragraph sums up my feelings better than I could have…
Left and first seem like the most glaring holes, but I do agree with the principle that you build a good defense by being strong up the middle… what alternative is there to Renteria (with Rowand, Sanchez and Posey rounding out the group)?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 20, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Alternatives for Renteria:
In system:
Manny Burriss – After batting .238/.292/.267 in the majors, he hit .268/.312/.366 in 17 games at Fresno before an injury cut his season short. I don’t think even the most optimistic people think he’s ready.
Kevin Frandsen – The offensive stats are debated a lot, but what’s notable is that he played more games in Fresno at short (96) than at any other position.
Free Agents:
Miguel Tejada – Not a defensive star, and his decent offensive stats might have a bit to do with playing in the Juice Box.
Bobby Crosby – Essentially, signing him would be paying someone else for Frandsen/Burriss to play short.
Orlando Cabrera – His value’s at second, not short, specifically with defense.
Khalil Greene – NO
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Sep 20, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Trade for Rolling, Reyes, or Hardy.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Easier said than done…Of the three, only Hardy is possibly on the market, and I wouldn’t want to give up what I think the Brewers would want.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Sep 20, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn’t say it’s easy, just that they are also alternatives.
Do you really think the Brewers would ask for that much for Hardy? They sent him down to AAA even though he’s been their (very good) starting SS for the past few years (and is making $4.5M this year). That’s pretty harsh. He can’t be happy about it either. Some say they did it to save money on arbitration, in which case he should be even less happy.
In fact, it seems to me that the Brewers have no leverage at all – they obviously want Escobar as their starting SS, they pretty much have to get rid of Hardy, who will eventually have to be paid (they can’t hide him in the minors forever), and they can’t ask for too much because of the poor year he had. Seems like a pretty great chance to buy low.
Reyes isn’t officially on the block, but there’s some talk that the Mets might trade him. They’re rebuilding, and Wright isn’t going anywhere, so Reyes seems like the logical one to trade (Minaya said they’ll be “creative and open-minded,” whatever that means). Obviously they’re going to ask for a lot, but Reyes’s value seems to be at a low, and, more importantly, he’s worth it. He’s 26 years old, a very very good player, plays a position that’s our biggest problem, and is signed to a reasonable contract. We absolutely have to try to get him, even if the odds are slim.
Rollins may not be on the block, but he hit .247 last year, and is going to make about $8M each of the next two years. The Phillies have to be scared, unless they’re big believers in BABIP regressions, which I doubt. It might be a long shot, becase he’s so damn popular over there, but I think if we offered them something good for him they’d at least have to consider it.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
In fact, it seems to me that the Brewers have no leverage at all – they obviously want Escobar as their starting SS, they pretty much have to get rid of Hardy, who will eventually have to be paid (they can’t hide him in the minors forever), and they can’t ask for too much because of the poor year he had. Seems like a pretty great chance to buy low.
Giants GM Brian Sabean offers Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser, and Francisco Liriano.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
I'd be shocked if Hardy isn't moved this off-season
the leverage is that every team that can use him is free to trade for him. There aren’t a whole lot of top notch SSs around.z
I've wanted JJ Hardy on this team for a while
Hell, let’s just get the whole Brewers group of position players (besides Kendall)
Yes, I would be down with some sort of Jonathon Sanchez for Hardy swap.
I know the Giants would be giving up a very talented arm and more years of team control but MI is not good in either spot for the Giatns on either side of the ball. He should go a long ways to stablizing one of those spots.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
Scutro should on the free agent list as well.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Sep 20, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Fair enough...
But a 33-year old having a career season, with his first OPS over .700 in three seasons and just his first ever over .750 means I’d rather have Khalil Greene.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Sep 20, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I am not quite sure I want either but I guess in the next couple months I’ll figure out how strongly I dislike one over the other.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Sep 20, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Do we need to pay BOTH Renteria AND Sanchez?
Renteria’s owed $9M in 2010 so do the Giants really want to pick up Sanchez $8M option for 2010? NO. That would be a waste of $17M double play combo. Since SF is already going to pay Renteria his money SF should look for a cheaper 2b option or slide Renteria over to 2b and look for an inexpensive SS option
by wilriv21 on Sep 21, 2009 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, this is pretty much my first line of thought when it comes to what to do with Fred Sanchez. Then I start thinking on needing to have multiple years from him to make the per year dolars mathc production and i shudder.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
It would have been pretty funny to see Matt Holliday get 3 at bats in September.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
I C WUT U DID THER
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
No. He's serious.
Proud father of Dallas Mcpherson. If you have any information leading to the arrest of the person responsible for the kidnapping of my son please contact me immediately. Reward if found!
pitching wins games
where would the giants be without good pitching? Probably would have
lost 100 games with our hitting, and middle of the road pitching.
by bradleybear on Sep 19, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
18 shutouts my friends.
Giants though, have yet to have a long winning streak this year. Now is the time!
by bradleybear on Sep 19, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
With the Giants it is more like..
/sbin/halt [-n] [-w] [-d] [-f] [-i] [-p] [-h] /sbin/reboot [-n] [-w] [-d] [-f] [-i] /sbin/poweroff [-n] [-w] [-d] [-f] [-i] [-h]
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
my fav.
> while fork
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
> while bork
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED
That's the reason I support getting Bossman Junior
Anything that makes Justin Upton more likely to come to SF garners my support
bossman junior?
"Early to bed, early to rise, makes a woman healthy, wealthy, and wise. That's why you all are wiser than me. It's cloudydays."
oh never mind
he should just go by “bossman”
"Early to bed, early to rise, makes a woman healthy, wealthy, and wise. That's why you all are wiser than me. It's cloudydays."
Bay or Crawford
One of the other would be sweet!
Imagine this year’s team with Bay hitting #4 instead of Molina.
Imagine this year’s team with Crawford hitting #3 and Panda hitting #4 instead of Molina.
Even though we really wouldn’t have a leadoff hitter (Rowand again?), I’d be happy to welcome either guy onto the team.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Part ways with Brian Sabean first, then explode out of the gates
Let Sabean walk, then get someone in here who can sign the player you want, instead of overpaying for the guy you don’t.
My recommendations to the new GM would be:
SPEND A SHITLOAD OF MONEY!!!!
1***Sign Jason Bay no matter the cost
2***Do not resign Bengie Molina
(Whiteside and Posey can share duties)
3***Buyout the contract for Freddy Sanchez
4***Release Edgar Renteria (who cares, eat it)
5***Sign Adam Laroche
6***Sign Carl Crawford
7***Sign Marco Scutaro
8***Sign Felipe Lopez
9***Hope Aaron Rowand decides to retire
10***Tell Aaron Rowand that his contract is void because nobody likes him and they’d rather not pay him and because Brian Sabean is dumb
11***Stop with the Bowker pipe dream. He sucks, will always suck. He’s a triple-A all star, a major league dud. Get over it. Trade his ass.
12***Rowand to a beer league softball squad for a bag of nachos and a case of coors light
Crawford CF
Lopez 2b
Sandoval 3b
Bay LF
Laroche 1b
Scutaro SS (or call up Brandon Crawford)
Posey C
Schierholtz RF
by clubber workout on Sep 20, 2009 3:18 PM PDT reply actions
I’m sensing that you don’t like Aaron Rowand.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
How do you propose the team discovers enough money to do this?
It’s not like they get out of Rowand and Renteria’s deals because you don’t like them.
10***Tell Aaron Rowand that his contract is void because nobody likes him and they’d rather not pay him
you pretty much lost all your nonexistent credibility
Brian Sabean is dumb
WELCOME!
Oh, Hey Aaron
Me and Brian had a talk, and…… well…..we decided were not going to pay you any more.
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 20, 2009 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
10***Tell Aaron Rowand that his contract is void because nobody likes him and they’d rather not pay him and because Brian Sabean is dumb
Really? I think it’s worth a shot. I’ve already subscribed to his newsletter.
On 5/7, the best part of waking is up LOLDGERS in my cup.
2B : There is no good in house alternative better than Freddy Sanchez for the next 2 years. Ideally the Giants sign him for 2 years with a 3rd option + buyout. Something like 2 years 12 Mil with a 7M option or 1.5M buyout for 3rd year.
LF / RF : This is where I really hate this september run. We needed to find out if Bowker is a legitimate solution. Right now we have no clue heading into this off season. We know what Schierholtz cannot do (on base consistently), but we don’t know what Bowker can do.
Depending on what the Giants are comfortable with, if we can make one signing this off season, I’d prefer it to be a 3 year deal for Carl Crawford to play Left field.
LF Crawford
2B Sanchez
RF Bowker / Schierholtz
3B Sandoval
1B Garkikawa
C Posey
SS Uribe
CF Rowand
P Lincecum
This is how I’d like to see our opening day lineup without breaking the bank or trading away Bumgarner. There still isn’t enough power, but we could lead the league in doubles with that lineup.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
that is still a whole lot of ugly
especially if you figure a Uribe regression, and assume most everyone plays about the same.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 21, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I am trying to stay budget conscious and the “giants way” of not signing players that may block other position prospects at their positions.
This 2010 lineup frees up potential 2011 spots for Neal, Crawford or Noonan, and Gillespie. With any luck, we can pickup a rental in July.
I know the regression for Uribe is going to be there, but hopefully between him and Renteria’s surgery we can have some kind of production out of that spot. Also, Rowand is still a solid #8 hitter with his wOBA. The linchpin in this lineup is if Posey can produce and if Bowker can get on base.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Also, Rowand is still a solid #8 hitter
/weeps
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 21, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
With the way Sanchez has been playing, and considering his injury woes, is it safe to say the cost for his extension is declining?
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 21, 2009 11:41 AM PDT reply actions
I would hope so
But considering that Sabean gave up Alderson for him even when he was injured and didn’t even get the Pirates to throw in any money, I’m not optimistic.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I think $12 for 3 years would be fair, or $10 for 2, if they want to go short-term
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 21, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
still betting on 2 years 12 Mil with a 3rd year option/ buyout ;p
Decline the option, offer arbitration. If he walks, then so be it, take the pick, suck it up, and sign Orlando Hudson.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
while that may be the right decision
it would completely and utterly suck. essentially, we would be giving up Alderson for Hudson, who we could have easily signed this past offseason. Damnit.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 21, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
if you are inclined to believe all the recent scouting report on Alderson, he is worth only a 2nd round pick at this point anyway. What sucks is that we have paid his signing bonus already and would have to pay another signing bonus to the compensation pick and fall another couple of years back in development, but it really isn’t that big of a deal.
The downside, of course, is if Alderson “discovers” the velocity that he was supposed to grow into. With that quirky delivery, I’m not so sure it would happen anyway.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Sign Aki Dammit!
Iwamura and Hudson are very comparable by WAR, but there’s a very good chance the former will come at 2/3 of the cost.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Sep 21, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I do like Iwamura
except for the strikeouts. He is averaging over 100 per year, while Sanchez is in the low 60’s.
A quick look at the numbers says that they are similar hitters (.281/ .354/ .393 /.747 97 OPS+ ) , but Iwamura has been injured most of this year. He is only 30 years old, which is a year younger than Sanchez. and would very likely be about half of the cost of Sanchez.
While I am not sure about the extent of Iwamura’s injury, it was a torn ACL which can be debilitatiing to a position player that requires significant lateral movement.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
I believe it was originally diagnosed as a torn ACL, but it ended up only being a partial tear. Of course injury on a player is never a good thing, however the reports were that he was rehabbing very well made evident by his fast return from surgery. In any case, Hudson perennially misses a number of games each season and Sanchez now has a lot of health risks himself as well.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
Don't get me wrong
I am not advocating the Giants sign Hudson.
I like Iwamura, but he would come at steeper price, as I am sure that he would want at least a three year deal should the Rays not re-sign him. Sanchea could be had at his option cost, and the Giants would not be on the hook for more than a year if he implodes.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
No
It provides another year to evalute performance and health. The only downside would be that Sanchez performs way above expectations and has leverage going in to extension talks for 2011.
The other side of the equation is that Sanchez performs at a level that makes him an acceptable candidate to extend 1/2 years( .292/ .324/ .414/ .739 / 97 OPS+) at a reasonable rate, and cover the gap until an acceptable candidate comes through the system or an FA becomes available.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Why?
$8 million? I’m sort of startled everyone seems so content with Sanchez. He has below average hitting stats. His wOBA, .321, is 4th worst of ML 2B starters and in line with both his career (.325) and 3 year average (.318). He’s a high BA singles hitter with poor plate discipline. This can’t news to anybody. He won’t get any better. He’ s 32, coming off two injuries.
Listen the Giants are only to get better with good hitters, not below average hitters like Sanchez. Put their money into plus hitters – Bay, Hoiliday, Nick Johnson, etc.. If he comes cheap ( a few million), fine. Otherwise I’d be content with a Uribe type.
by San Francisco Slim on Sep 21, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
So Slim,
Put their money into plus hitters – Bay, Hoiliday, Nick Johnson, etc.. If he comes cheap ( a few million), fine.
As many baserunners as the Giants left on base this year, a High BA singles hitter is not a bad thing.
I think everyone agrees that the Giants need a big bat. The problem seems to be that the bats they need/make sense will not come cheap. Holliday gets $13.5 M right now. He’s 29, and I would think that this year will be his last shot at a long term/ big money contract. Somewhere around 5/$75 would be my guess.
Bay is the last year of an $18.25M contract. He’s making $8M this year and at 31 he would want at least three years. Somewhere around 3/$36 would seem about right, depending on the market this offseason.
Johnson is in the last year of a 3/16.5M contract. With his injury history, he might come cheap. With his career line of .273 /.401 / .448 /.849 he would instantly qualify as one of the better hitters on the Giants, but a power bat he is not, with 89 HR’s over 8 years. He has also averaged only 96 games per year over the last eight years. That is lower numbers than Dave Roberts, and I think we all know how that turned out.
The group of 2B FA’s is pretty weak and old. See anybody in there that you want ?
Second basemen (ages)
Ronnie Belliard (35)
Jamey Carroll (36)
Alex Cora (34)
Craig Counsell (39)
Mark DeRosa (35)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (34)
Orlando Hudson (32)
Akinori Iwamura (31) – $4.25MM club option with a $250K buyout
Adam Kennedy (34)
Felipe Lopez (30)
Mark Loretta (38)
Pablo Ozuna (35)
Placido Polanco (34)
Freddy Sanchez (32) – $8MM club option with a $600K buyout; vests with 600PAs
Juan Uribe (31)
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Also worth noting that DeRosa, Hudson, Lopez, and Polanco are all Type A/B free agents. Makes the list even smaller
by m34josh on Sep 21, 2009 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good Point Josh
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
The Giants have money
Nearly $40 million in expiring contracts. I think about $8/$9 million in contract raises, then they have to deal with Lincecum, Wilson and Sanchez, who are arbitration eligable. After that, and a possible raise of their budget due to increased revenue in 09, they might have about $25 million to spend on catcher, 2B, and possibly 1B and OF.
They should have money to sign both a Holliday/Bay type and a Nick Johnson type. Whatever they have left over, sign a career back-up catcher type to caddy Posey, and go with a low budget option at 2nd. A player from your list above could work out.
The Giants aren’t going to do what I’m proposing if Brian Sabean is around. The money will continue to go to the Freddy Sanchezs, Bengie Molinas and Randy Winns of the world…but I’m just saying.
by San Francisco Slim on Sep 22, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Slim,
Take a look at Cot’s Contracts.
It is a very good resource regarding payroll for each of the MLB clubs. One of the features I like at Cot’s is their Payroll Obligations spreadsheet. It lists the current and future payroll obligations for each team.
The Giants 2009 payroll was essentially $89M. This is about their recent historical average . They do have some obligations to former players. I believe that Bonds still has deferred payouts for an additional year, but only Roberts and Yabu are listed on the 2009 spreadsheet.
The Giants payroll obligations before any FA’s and arbitration for Lincecum, Wilson, Sanchez and Frandsen is $51M. Lincecum should get between 8/10M for one year. Wilson should get between 2/4M for one year unless he commits to a longer term, JSanchez I would think is somewhere in that range as well. No telling where Frandsen will land since he did not see much MLB time this season.
So… without any FA signings the Giants should be around $70M. It would be tough to fill the bench spots and sign a big bat like Holliday. That would eat eat up the remaining balance, and tie the Giants to another long term high dollar contract. cough..Zito..cough,cough…Rowand…cough.
I cannot believe that I am saying this, but I don’t think that Sabean has as much control as you stated. I am pretty sure that he is given a specific set of financial parameters to work within. If a player/agent wants $20M and your boss says you have $12M, you most likely won’t sign that guy. William Horlick “Bill” Neukom, Esquire is a wealthy man. He did not get that way by ignoring financial realities, and economic conditions. I would think that the long term financial health of the Giants is one of the reasons he was selected to succeed Peter Magowan as the MGP.
Baseball is a business. As much as we b*tch about it not being our money, the Giants still have to be a viable business entity, and leave room to re-sign young players like Lincecum, Cain, Sandoval, Posey in the future, and any viable FA’s like Carl Crawford. I don’t want the Giants to be the Oakland A’s and lose valuable players when they reach Arb/Contract status. Besides, the potential 2011 FA list looks like it could be pretty decent.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Am pretty much in the same place with Giants payroll
Using Cots payroll obligations, expiring contracts add up to about $39 million. Contract increases adds about $8/$9 million. That leaves arbitration or new contracts to Lincecum, Sanchez and Wilson. Not sure that the Giants just won’t let Frandsen go at this point. Isn’t he 28 with a career .280 wOBA? So question is if they can sign Lincecum/Sanchez /Wilson to long term contracts to cut back on 09 salaries. That’s speculation.
The question is how much they’ll have left to spend after taking care of those three. Could be $15 to $25 million, not sure, nor sure if the Giants don’t add to their budget by a few million. So, if it’s $20 million, how do you spend it? What I’m saying is don’t spend $6 to $8 million on Freddy Sanchez as part of that equation. Ditto Bengie Molina and Randy Winn, no matter if its you, me, Neukom or Sabean making the decisions. But one thing about Sabean, whomever has been making the decisions for him over the last 13 years, he does have a predictable track record.
by San Francisco Slim on Sep 22, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
If Sabean is around next year, it is guaranteed that Sanchez stays
There is no way that Sabean would admit any sort of mistake was made by trading Alderson for just a rental.
With malice towards the Dodgers
counter point: A guy named AJ. And there was a lot more invested in that move.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
AJ’s clubhouse problems weren’t going to keep him around. A team “cancer” is far worse than a fragile Sanchez
With malice towards the Dodgers
A wild card that has not been mentioned in this thread is Chone Figgins. He was signed for $5.77M avoiding arbitration for 2009. I am not sure if the Angels will re-sign him with Brandon Wood waiting in the wings. As a 3B, he could transition to SS as stop-gap, or allow Pablo Sandoval to move to 1B.
He is certainly not a power hitter, but does possess speed, is a solid average hitter, has maintained a respectable career OBP of .362, is a versatile player, and would seem a good fit as a transition player for the Giants.
His defensive metrics for 2009 are very good. He has a +13.3 UZR, which is third best in the major leagues. The Cub’s and Yankees are already talking about him as an acquisition target for the 2010 season so the cost could be prohibitive.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Rumors are 4/$40M
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
Wilson for Crawford or Upton?
First off, who does everyone think has more value, Crawford or Upton based off contract status, performance, age ETC. Also, I think with the emergence of Runzler, I know only 5 innings but they have been very impressive, and Romo proving to be very reliable, and Affedlt, I dont think we need 4 stellar relievers. Also, the Rays oviously need a bullpen, with them trusting Percival going into the year with the job. Just seems to be a way easier solution then handing out north of 60 million for Bay or Holliday.
by giantsrockdudes on Sep 21, 2009 9:55 PM PDT reply actions
Wilson for either of those two would make me very, very happy. Personally, I’d prefer Crawford despite the fact that he’s older and is going to be more expensive.
Thing A
Yeah, Crawford would be the best solution this offseason (along with letting Molina go). I really think the Giants value Wilson too highly though. And do you really think the Rays would accept Wilson for Crawford? Maybe Wilson plus Lewis, since that’s who Crawford would be upgrading over anyway.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Sep 22, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Wilson plus Lewis, since that’s who Crawford would be upgrading over anyway.
That is a lot to give up, but it seems to me the Giants would still get the better end of the bargain.
Who goes to close for the Giants ? Romo ?
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
I don’t know, maybe Romo/Affeldt committe, or sign Rafeal Soriano or Jose Valverde.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Sep 22, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, there’s no way in Hell the Rays would give us Upton for Wilson, unless Posey was going with him.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Sep 22, 2009 1:24 PM PDT reply actions
I doubt that’s true. 1) The Rays desperately need a closer for next year to seriously compete. 2) The Rays have top level OF prospect ready to be promoted to the majors. 3) The Rays have cost concerns. 4) The Rays are rumored to be getting tired of Upton for whatever reasons.
I’m fairly certain you could look on this blog within weeks of Tampa trading Delmon Young and find many people saying there’s no way in hell the Rays would trade Delmon Young. The fact is for reasons both good and bad, these kinds of things happen all the time in sports. The unthinkable is pretty normal.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
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