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Around SBN: Following UFC 146 Loss, Jason 'Mayhem' Miller 'Done' in UFC

What the Giants Should Have Done...

With the benefit of hindsight, it’s all so clear now. The question: how can the Giants improve a wretched offense? They went into the trade deadline with fistfuls of promising minor leaguers and a wild-eyed look. Gimme whatever offense you got, and I don’t care what it takes!

The answer wasn’t Freddy Sanchez. Moving from Manny Burriss to Sanchez within a season is like moving from Babe Danzig to Babe Ruth, but it didn’t really help. Sanchez didn’t play because of a shoulder injury, which is frustrating because team doctors gave his knee a clean bill of health. Sanchez didn’t play, Juan Uribe did and doubled the team home run total (at least, that’s what it felt like). For this, the Giants gave up their #2 pitching prospect. But Sanchez wasn’t the answer.

Star-divide

The answer wasn’t Ryan Garko, who would probably be the best first base option for the Giants since J.T. Snow’s fluky-good 2004 if Garko actually, you know, played. He’s a limited player, with most of his value coming as a southpaw-masher, but he made the mistake of struggling in the handful of at-bats that Bruce Bochy remembers now. That’s a big no-no. Randy Winn knew better. He hit against the Padres when he came to the National League, so he’s still playing. Edgar Renteria was a World Series hero, and I’m pretty sure Bochy watched that on TV, so Renteria still gets to play. That’s how it works. So the answer wasn’t Ryan Garko. The guy can't even outhit Renteria from the bench, fer crying out loud.

The answer is actually a two-parter. There’s an answer for the crazy, risk-taking fools whose derring-do told them that the answer was for the Giants to go all-in. Throw whatever prospect to the wall you want; if the Giants got an impact player, by gum, it was worth it. That answer is Matt Holliday. Would a Tim Alderson/Scott Barnes package have bested the Cardinals’ offer of Brett Wallace? Maybe not, but let’s put it another way: Would you go back in time, trade Ryan Garko, Freddy Sanchez, and another prospect for Holliday? Uh…yes. Dang it. As long as I could have held onto John Bowker….

The answer for the protect-the-farm crowd, the folks who still foam at the mouth when they hear Alderson’s name, was simple: a right-handed reserve outfielder with pop.

This is all revisionist history, of course. At no point did I write a 1,000 screed demanding a right-handed reserve outfielder. I didn’t know, though, that Andres Torres would go down to injury on July 31. We didn’t know that Eugenio Velez would play over his head for a month and become a Bochy-approved starter. Velez has been a contributor over the last couple of months, but he never stopped being an awful option against left-handed pitchers (.241/.288/.353…in his minor-league career!) And we didn’t know that if Bochy didn’t play Winn every day, even against left-handers, the bus would explode and Sandra Bullock would die.

The answer was Ben Francisco, whom the Phillies got as a throw-in to the Cliff Lee deal. The answer was Jonny Gomes, who’s done well for the Reds filling in for various injured outfielders. The answer was a right-handed hitting outfielder with a little pop.

I’m not pointing fingers. Just saying. Dang it.

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Bowker should start hitting right handed. Problem solved.

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Sep 17, 2009 3:15 PM PDT reply actions  

While he’s at it, he should learn to play shortstop. Then they could shut down Renteria for the season.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Sep 17, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rent could have both legs and arms ripped off in a wild panda attack and would still start at short.

My Will Clark will kick your honor student's ass!

by jbowl on Sep 18, 2009 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

But I want Sandra Bullock to die

by quincy0191 on Sep 17, 2009 3:16 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

THAT’S HOW IT WORKS!

Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,

by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 17, 2009 3:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Are you suggesting that the Giants offensive isnt good?

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption

by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 17, 2009 3:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Random thought

I think it was last year, Grant, when you did a few cross-posts with other SBN authors – before a series, you would answer a set of questions they had about the Giants, and they’d answer your questions about their team. You should do more of those. I liked ’em.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 3:24 PM PDT reply actions  

Translation: This is boring me shitless. Work harder.

by younghutch on Sep 17, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s how I took it.

by Grant Brisbee on Sep 17, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

McCovey Chronices: Why is Todd Helton such a dickweed? I mean, fuck.

Purple Row: o_0

by Grant Brisbee on Sep 17, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly!

This is the kind of hard hitting player analysis that your readers are yearning for!

WHY IS BOCOCK?!

by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 17, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do

I got yo back case we get any bop-action

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption

by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 17, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cause Barry Bonds was taken!!

Yeah, um, I gave it a minute or two thought, I got nothing.

The Todd Helton thing maka me laugh.

Funny Dog to Make Life Worthwhile

by frightened inmate #2 on Sep 17, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

yo, mccovey chronicles, imma let you finish, but russell martin was the biggest dickweed of all time

by sfoakbay on Sep 17, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

AS WELL YOU SHOULD!!!!

Actually I was thinking of it because of playing the Rockies and them having Eric Young Jr. One of your questions for the Brewers blog was about Greg Bruso, who we traded to them for Eric Young Sr…who I always remember because he was the first Giants minor league pitcher I ever saw in person.

This is how my mind works.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

The answer: Grant is gay.

Is this the wrong thread?

/has given up on this season.

by jhiat00 on Sep 17, 2009 3:32 PM PDT reply actions  

I think that goes in the Which Mods are Gay? Thread

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption

by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 17, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

There should be a pole.

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Sep 17, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Peter O’Toole?

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Sep 17, 2009 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh uh

TWSS

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption

by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 17, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Answer to (some of the) Giants offensive woes:

Fire Bruce Bochy and hire someone who understands what wOBA is. Hell, I’d settle for someone who understands OPS+

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Sep 17, 2009 3:34 PM PDT reply actions  

I’d settle for someone who knows what OBP is.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

If only they’d put it on the scoreboard…

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Sep 17, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think they have a pill for that now.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Sep 17, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

All Bochy understand is V.E.T.E.R.A.N.S.

"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark

"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.

by Tellias on Sep 17, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

At least he can spell

by PiKAgiant on Sep 17, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

At least he understands the difference between spelling and grammar.

Dumbass.

"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark

"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.

by Tellias on Sep 17, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Velez Eguenio That and Edgar Renteria Are Now Starters

V. E.T.E.R.A.N.S.

by jewbacca on Sep 17, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

You’re totally going to get called a gay nerd because of this post.

Also, something about chocolate and peanut butter.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Sep 17, 2009 3:34 PM PDT reply actions  

too late

/has given up on this season.

by jhiat00 on Sep 17, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bring back Dustan Mohr.

"How do you expect me to think and hit at the same time?"

by Fishchum on Sep 17, 2009 3:37 PM PDT reply actions  

Todd Linden!

"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark

"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.

by Tellias on Sep 17, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jacob Cruz.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

McGee!

/has given up on this season.

by jhiat00 on Sep 17, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ugliest man in baseball. Right after Otis Nixon.

"How do you expect me to think and hit at the same time?"

by Fishchum on Sep 17, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Aaron Harang
Randy Johnson
Wilson Delgado

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tommy Lasorda

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Sep 17, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nose picker.

"How do you expect me to think and hit at the same time?"

by Fishchum on Sep 17, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

End of discussion

This guy:

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Looks like a seriously ugly version of Don Draper.

"How do you expect me to think and hit at the same time?"

by Fishchum on Sep 17, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Sep 17, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Large image is large.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Sep 17, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

it grew…like his ears

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Sep 17, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fuck, that scared me.

by esseffgeez on Sep 17, 2009 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

batters closed their eyes

"Hey old-timer, where am I ?"

"You can't get there from here."

by pynchon59 on Sep 17, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, and let’s not forget Julian Tavarez.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bigger douchebag to be stuck next to in the Giants bullpen: Julian Tavarez or Jeff Juden?

"How do you expect me to think and hit at the same time?"

by Fishchum on Sep 17, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’d bet Juden.

"Man, you just can't beat a good bowl of gumbo." ~ William Nuschler Clark

by iammclovin on Sep 17, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Left in the microwave a little too long.

by Alex_Lewis on Sep 17, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Those unis are bad ass.

/has given up on this season.

by jhiat00 on Sep 17, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Doesn’t matter how you look if you’re nickname is the Big Unit.

by velvadp on Sep 17, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unless your real name is Randy Johnson.

"Man, you just can't beat a good bowl of gumbo." ~ William Nuschler Clark

by iammclovin on Sep 17, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

If I am?

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Sep 17, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

it’s the uniform that’s doesn’t have that …je ne sais quoi

"Hey old-timer, where am I ?"

"You can't get there from here."

by pynchon59 on Sep 17, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

boo!

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Sep 17, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jim Bouton, in Ball Four, claimed that Joe Torre was so ugly he dissolved camera lenses.

by younghutch on Sep 17, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

anything ball four is awesome

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Sep 17, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Big League Chew!

/has given up on this season.

by jhiat00 on Sep 18, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

yes!

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Sep 17, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rajai Davis?

Keeping on SWOOPing in the free world! Also, by the reflexive property of the rubber/glue playground comeback, I enjoy wearing hats on my ass.

by SneakToBetterSeats on Sep 18, 2009 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

A new angle: Giants' medical staff

Bochy and/or Sabean to go? How about the doctor’s who didn’t know the children’s song

The knee bone’s connected to the shoulder bone
The mouth bone’s connected to the T-bone
The eye bone’s connected to the breast bone….

"Hey old-timer, where am I ?"

"You can't get there from here."

by pynchon59 on Sep 17, 2009 3:37 PM PDT reply actions  

I enjoyed the fortified wine reference from the twitter post, personally.

The post was ok too.

I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED

by ringleader3 on Sep 17, 2009 3:42 PM PDT reply actions  

I was just thinking about how the two best Giants acquisitions of 2009 cost them $1,000,000 (Juan Uribe) and something like $75,000 (Brad Penny), and neither involved giving up any players at all.

"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy

by Kitspool on Sep 17, 2009 3:43 PM PDT reply actions  

Jeremy Affeldt.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed. $3.5 million, but still a relative bargain.

"If you want to walk, watch a mailman."--Shawon Dunston
"If you want to bunt, bake a cake."--Bruce Bochy

by Kitspool on Sep 17, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely.

"I FEEL A LOT OF HAPPY!" - Juan Uribe

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Sep 17, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Could somebody explain to me why we aren’t skipping Dirty’s start to squeeze one more start from Timmy?

by velvadp on Sep 17, 2009 3:47 PM PDT reply actions  

Because Dirty is a gritty veter....

oh wait

Im stumped.

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption

by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 17, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because we're not really in this thing

and it doesn’t make sense to risk any kind of injury to Lincecum by overworking him.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Sep 17, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

In 2011

we will be glad for a healthy, crafty Timmy

cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"

by foothillsfan on Sep 17, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

so will the Yankees

Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."

Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!

by natteringnabob on Sep 17, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

BANNED

/has given up on this season.

by jhiat00 on Sep 17, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that’s 2013.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Sep 17, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

sox actually

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Sep 17, 2009 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought you had to be left-handed to be crafty?

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 18, 2009 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

it really wouldn’t be over working him. He’d be on normal rest.

I really think this is so that he’s available for a one game playoff

by DrStankus on Sep 17, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Won’t do much good if the team doesn’t make it to a one game playoff because of losing a game.

It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).

by can of corn on Sep 17, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

this isn't my logic

it’s Bochy logic.

It’s hard to try to think like him, but you have to do it. Then it all becomes clear.

by DrStankus on Sep 17, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trying to think like Bochy...

…“we’re not skipping Sanchezy because he’s the guy I’m running out there.”

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Sep 17, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Isn’t there discussion of pushing Tim back?

by chilibean_3 on Sep 17, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Other than the fact that he just missed a start with a back injury?

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Sep 17, 2009 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

BECAUSE I’M GOING TO THE GAME SUNDAY AND I DON’T WANT TO FREAKING SEE ZITO!

That’s why.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Sep 18, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’d want to see Timmy too but FWIW good Zito is good. I was at Tuesday’s game. The curveball was a thing of destructive beauty.

by esseffgeez on Sep 18, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah Zito's better than Cain right now, so..

SECOND STARTER AT BEST

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Sep 18, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Invisible Octopus

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Sep 17, 2009 3:51 PM PDT reply actions  

yo is this shit foreal?!

by The Double Deuce on Sep 17, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

thats some fucken crazy ass shit but cuttlefish are still cooler but props to dr.roger hanlon

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Sep 17, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol

DarkForgottenUchiha (1 week ago)

Reply | Spam
Someone should get these octopuses genes and mix them with a humans genes

rtydhg4q (1 week ago)

If I start mixing other animals’ genes with my own, the first will be the genes that produce that raspy tongue for cats. A few of the women I’ve discussed this with are a little leery, but most are…..yeah, I’m getting the cat genes, first.

But yeah, imagine what the identity thieves would be doing with the mimic octopus’s abilities.

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption

by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 17, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

What woman would decline sand paper on her clitoris?

Only a frigid bitch, I’d imagine.

by Alex_Lewis on Sep 17, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

they are only "a little leery"

shouldn’t take much to convince them otherwise.

"Put your drawers on, and take your gun off."

by cloudydays on Sep 17, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think he’s discussed this with any women.

by chilibean_3 on Sep 17, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just “women” in IRC chatrooms.

(Do they even have IRC anymore!?)

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I frequent an IRC chatroom.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Sep 17, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess so, then!

IRC was never my thing. I was more of a Usenet nerd. And then MOOs. But I can’t remember hearing IRC mentioned in years, so

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am in a few irc rooms with my friends. I used to be in a bunch of them for work. Easy access to information about social networks, technology, etc. Kinda how they’ve always been used.

I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED

by ringleader3 on Sep 17, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

MOOs!!!

nerdgasm

MOOs got me started in programming way back when

Nobody likes money

by fwoty oz on Sep 17, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think we’re allowed to talk about those.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Sep 17, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

/bans Grant

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption

by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 17, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pretty sure Chris Hansen has shut down most of those by now.

/has given up on this season.

by jhiat00 on Sep 17, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Last i was on an IRC was probably 4ish years ago.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen, come back!

by WalrusMan on Sep 17, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

IT WAS FOR A CHATROOM I USED TO GO TO WHEN I’D HIT ON 13-16 YEAR OLDS!!!!!!

WHEN I WAS 13-17!!!!!! (And during the appropriate ages.)

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen, come back!

by WalrusMan on Sep 17, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

you were 17 four years ago?

I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED

by ringleader3 on Sep 17, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

17 hitting on 13

Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Sep 17, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

So you’re saying they grew up too, and you lost interest?

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Sep 17, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dont think he has discussed anything with women

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption

by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 17, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I want to meet some of these people and observe them.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Sep 17, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

You bring the net to catch ‘em with, I’ll supply the terarium.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

hahaha

"Put your drawers on, and take your gun off."

by cloudydays on Sep 17, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would like to subscribe to his newsletter.

by younghutch on Sep 17, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

A quick comparison

between ESPN and Baseball Prospectus projections in April / current Giants pace:

Record: 86-76 (3rd in the NL West) / 87-75 (3rd)
RS: 714 / 654
RA: 727 / 605
Avg: .263 / .257
OBP: .313 / .308
SLG: .403 / .388

Our pitchers totally deserve the playoffs.

by esseffgeez on Sep 17, 2009 3:53 PM PDT reply actions  

Our team OPS is sub-.700?

/sobs

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

/passes along the Kleenex

by esseffgeez on Sep 17, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

/hits weak two-hopper to second

by Alex_Lewis on Sep 17, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

/Torres at second gets tagged out off the bag

I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED

by ringleader3 on Sep 17, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

/Renteria, Edgar (SS-SFG)

by velvadp on Sep 17, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

If only someone besides freddy sanchez and you could master the weak two-hopper to 2nd

by m34josh on Sep 17, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Joe Pos posted a couple days ago BP’s 2005 replacement levels by position. They are:
C: .234/.291/.370
1B: .228/.300/.415
2B: .240/.291/.382
3B: .234/.297/.395
SS: .244/.299/.380
LF: .246/.301/.404
CF: .237/.291/.376
RF: .239/.299/.419
DH: .226/.304/.408

So generally you’re talking about a replacement level team at around .690 or so.

Ladies and gentlemen, your San Francisco Replacement Level Giants.

Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz

by lyricalkiller on Sep 17, 2009 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which means the pitching is all the more incredible, because they generally say, IIRC, that an all-replacement-level team should win about 40 games. The Giants have won 79, on pace for 87, with a replacement-level offense! That’s amazing! Or sad, depending on your POV.

by taliesin on Sep 17, 2009 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's more like 60 games for a replacement level team.

obviously it depends on where repl level is set.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.

by zenbitz on Sep 18, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sixty is too low, given that some team wins around sixty nearly every year. I recall the standard all-replacement line being set at 48 wins.

by Evan on Sep 18, 2009 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sixty is too high, I mean.

by Evan on Sep 18, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just meant that it varies depending on whose defining it

BP (current) quotes:

A replacement level player is one who has .736 times as many EqR as the average for that position; that corresponds to a .351 winning percentage

So that’s about 57 wins. There is no agreed upon theoretical way to define replacement value, it’s usually around 80% of average. BP is a little low with 73.6% of average.

Fangraphs and TangoTiger seem to define it at ~.410 (66 wins) or 2.25 wins per player… but that is from googling about not an ironclad definition.

VORP (old post) uses a very low replacement level of 44 wins ( VORP description), but I think it has been roundly critiqued for that

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.

by zenbitz on Sep 18, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought replacement level was defined as being wherever the Natinals finish.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Sep 18, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

RF: .239/.299/.419

lol Schierholtz

(I know he has 30 points of BA on it, but still)

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Sep 17, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Its totally Buster’s numbers that are dragging the catchers numbers down. Would be hitting .234001 without him

by m34josh on Sep 18, 2009 5:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah Buster Posey sucks. He strikes out in every fucking at bat!!!

by Mrbasepaul on Sep 18, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Sep 18, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

How did they predict that the Giants would a) allow more runs than they scored and b) finish 10 games over .500? That’s some different kind of math, right there.

by taliesin on Sep 17, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I imagine that could happen with

  • some very good relievers where you win a lot of low scoring games
  • some bad relievers who would get into games where we are trailing and then get blown out

but yeah, it still doesn’t make lots of sense.

by DJ Tofu on Sep 17, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly. They projected the Giants would win lots of close games and would have huge blowout losses here and there.

In contrast, Arizona was projected 746 RS and 730 RA…but a 77-85 record.

by esseffgeez on Sep 17, 2009 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

damn you people

make me laugh out loud at work

"Put your drawers on, and take your gun off."

by cloudydays on Sep 17, 2009 4:03 PM PDT reply actions  

What the Giants should have done is steroids.

"The Giants win the pennant! The Giants win the pennant! And they're going crazy. . . .oh, wait."

by They Might Be Midgets on Sep 17, 2009 4:09 PM PDT reply actions  

OMGZ STEROIDS

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Kevin Frandsen, come back!

by WalrusMan on Sep 17, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m still too bored from reading about your dream to have anything to say here.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Sep 17, 2009 4:34 PM PDT reply actions  

But your are pointing fingers, Grant; you are

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Sep 17, 2009 4:46 PM PDT reply actions  

My Three Cents

  always package multiple mediocres and prospects for a single perennial all-star (like Holiday)

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Sep 17, 2009 4:47 PM PDT reply actions  

OFF THE TOPIC

Is it okay to like Frank Black’s song “Los Angeles”?

Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.

by satyricrash on Sep 17, 2009 4:52 PM PDT reply actions  

Yes, cause it not the one in south California, its the one in south Patagonia.

I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, someone please help me.
LOL FRED

by ringleader3 on Sep 17, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I want to live in Los Angeles
Not the one in Los Angeles
No, not the one in South California
The got one in south Patagonia

Nobody likes money

by fwoty oz on Sep 17, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like X’s “Los Angeles”.

WHY IS BOCOCK?!

by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 17, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ohh, that is a good one.

Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.

by satyricrash on Sep 17, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Song or album?

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Sep 17, 2009 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trick question – both are great.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Sep 17, 2009 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed, although I like Under the Big Black Sun better.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 17, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, but this is wrong.

However, More Fun in the New World is better than either.

by taliesin on Sep 17, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ding ding ding!

Thing C

by markdash on Sep 17, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

anything by X is great. One of my favorite Soprano’s endings was when the gay mobster is peacefully shopping in a small town as the show ends and they play “Fourth of July.” Anyone seen Exene Cervanka lately? She kind of looks like that gay mobster! Hard to believe she was once married to Viggo Mortenson.

proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria

by rxmeister on Sep 18, 2009 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

No, no, no. It goes Wild Gift, Under the Big Black Sun, Los Angeles, and only then More Fun in the New World.

by Evan on Sep 18, 2009 7:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

+1

Wild Gift is Pablo Sandoval levels of awesome.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Sep 18, 2009 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

When I was in high school i loved Goldfinger’s song FuckLA

Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz

by lyricalkiller on Sep 17, 2009 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great song. If anyone is interested in checking it out, it’s actually called “City with Two Faces.”

proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria

by rxmeister on Sep 18, 2009 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Brenly in ‘10!!!!!!
Now that’s change we can belive in !!!!!

by skunk5150 on Sep 17, 2009 5:32 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Do you know of some obsession with hiring managers with the initials BB?

by quincy0191 on Sep 17, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

We passed on Busty Baker, didn’t we?

by esseffgeez on Sep 17, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Too bad. Those cupcakes look good.

Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz

by lyricalkiller on Sep 17, 2009 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

slump-buster

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Sep 17, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now I’m craving maple snickerdoodles.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Sep 17, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

No I don’t know of one. And to be honest I never noticed that till you guys brought it up ha ha.

by skunk5150 on Sep 17, 2009 7:44 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

This will sound violent but...

…I sometimes wish that I was a genuine giant and could pick Bochy up by his lower legs and wield him like a large, fleshy mace. I’d swing it into the side of my house and watch his head explode against the stucco. When his head explodes, it’s not blood and bits of skull I see, and certainly not grey matter. When his head explodes, there is a shower of bird seed scattered everywhere. All the birds in my neighborhood sing sweet songs of praise to me for this bounty. And I forget, for a minute, how mad that fucking guy makes me sometimes.

"Man, you just can't beat a good bowl of gumbo." ~ William Nuschler Clark

by iammclovin on Sep 17, 2009 5:35 PM PDT reply actions  

maybe I practice on some straw dummies first.

"Man, you just can't beat a good bowl of gumbo." ~ William Nuschler Clark

by iammclovin on Sep 17, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Correct me if I'm wrong

But weren’t we ahead of the pack when Richie went down? I’m not saying… oh the hell with it, I’m saying it.

El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."

by ResDog on Sep 17, 2009 6:11 PM PDT reply actions  

Cunningham?

"Man, you just can't beat a good bowl of gumbo." ~ William Nuschler Clark

by iammclovin on Sep 17, 2009 6:30 PM PDT reply actions  

reply fail

"Man, you just can't beat a good bowl of gumbo." ~ William Nuschler Clark

by iammclovin on Sep 17, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hasn’t Brian Sabean been awfully quiet lately? Can I take that as a good sign about Bochy’s future? Then again, might his low profile also mean his days might be numbered as well? I can’t believe Neukom watches these games and is very happy at the lineup Bochy trots out there every night. And I REALLY can’t believe that Neukom is very happy twice a month when he writes out checks for players like Edgar Renteria and Scott Rowand, and realizes he’ll still be writing out those checks next year.

proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria

by rxmeister on Sep 17, 2009 6:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Off Topic:

I am just now learning about wOBA.

Is average wOBA scaled to league average OBA for any reason other than to make it more understandable?

Thing C

by markdash on Sep 17, 2009 8:05 PM PDT reply actions  

but it’s a good reason

by DrStankus on Sep 17, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

And they chose OBA because stat-minded types (read: NERDS) tend to think more in terms of OBA than batting average?

I consider myself pretty progressive, stats-wise, yet I’m still hardwired to think in terms of batting average rather than OBA. This trait will probably prove somewhat difficult to change.

Thing C

by markdash on Sep 17, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

That’s the thing about it; without the scaling, .287 would be league-average. So .300 would be considered good. Anybody could understand that. It just seems like a fairly pointless adjustment that makes the stat more difficult to understand.

by taliesin on Sep 17, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess the point is that doing anything that says “batting average” is going to bring herds of sabermetricians (read: DORKS) out of their mothers’ basements to criticize you, so it’s better to just head them off at the pass and associate it with OBA.

Thing C

by markdash on Sep 17, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

No

I find this annoying, because I’m kind of OCD and I feel it disrupts the mathematical beauty of the whole wOBA concept. Nevertheless, if I could only have one batting statistic, wOBA would be it.

by taliesin on Sep 17, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why in the world would you want only one?

El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."

by ResDog on Sep 18, 2009 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Because there are equally good ways of generating offense, and it lets you compare things that were traditionally not able to be compared (such as, what’s more important, someone who hits 35 bombs, or someone who steals 80 bags?).

by speckops on Sep 18, 2009 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

But the ability to play baseball isn’t defined with one skill. A player shouldn’t be measured with one statistic.

El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."

by ResDog on Sep 18, 2009 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

But the statistic incorporates many aspects of offense. That’s the holy grail of STATS – one stat to rule them all, which incorporates total player value and allows for easy comparison of player value.

Ideally, defense is incorporated, as in WAR, but we have more confidence with offensive stats than with defensive stats.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 18, 2009 8:30 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

But it’s still measuring results rather than abilities, so you need to look at BABIP, line drive rate, etc. And I generally prefer to see how a player gets to his give wOBA — slugging? a jillion singles? lots of walks?

by Evan on Sep 18, 2009 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sure, of course. But I originally said if I had to only use one stat. And sometimes one stat is all you need. If I look at a player’s line and see wOBA .287 I know there’s not much point in investigating further. That guy can’t hit. In most cases, though, I’ll look at AVG/OBP/SLG and, if there’s some indication that he’s having a fluky year, BABIP and LD%.

by taliesin on Sep 18, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

the point of wOBA

is that it is weighted. You don’t have to worry about how they got it. A guy with the same wOBA has the same value as another regardless of different methods of accumulation.

That’s assuming that your weights are correct, of course.

by DrStankus on Sep 18, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

‘swhat I’m saying — I do want to worry about how they got it.

by Evan on Sep 18, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

why do you want to worry about it?

if they are creating the same value, then they are creating the same value.

Anyway, then there’s a whole host of statistics, like virtually every other one, that lets you do that.

by DrStankus on Sep 18, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

can you explain why you'd care about BABIP for hitters?

Cause that seems like a gross misapplication, or at least one that could be misused.

It’s different with pitchers.

by DrStankus on Sep 18, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

well

if a hitter is sitting a hundred points below his career BABIP, it’s a sign something fluky might be happening, or if his BABIP is like .200 or .400

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Sep 18, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

That’s the holy grail of STATS – one stat to rule them all

Dorky comment is dorky

/is LOTR fan

/has given up on this season.

by jhiat00 on Sep 18, 2009 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I had to destroy your one stat, but I’d be lying if I said that it didn’t almost destroy me in the process.

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Sep 18, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Howie was tempted to use wOBA for good but it would have eventually corrupted him.

/has given up on this season.

by jhiat00 on Sep 18, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

My foot hair was bristling at the thought of all that power… it was just… too much for one man to wield.

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Sep 18, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it depends. Do you want a way to compare value or to break down and understand how a player does what he does. I think wOBA is the best amongst the “value stats”, but if I want to know what a player’s skillset is, then I want to know about his OBP, SLG, BB%,K% etc.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Sep 18, 2009 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well you put that in better words than I could. I’d rather see all the stats & judge the player off of those. Is our leadoff hitter have a high OBP? What’s the SLG% of our corner infielders (NEED POP)? What’s the K rate of the guy hitting 2nd?

I use all kinds of stats to lie all day. If your revenue is down, I’ll tell you collection rate is through the roof. Or your average receipt is up. Or your seeing too many Medicare patients. You’ll get a breakdown of your acuity levels for the past 6 months. Take away all the statistics & simplify it, then where the hell is my excuse is the fun in that? We don’t want you to look just at your revenue!

Unless it’s up, then by God we’re doing a fantastic job!

El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."

by ResDog on Sep 18, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Your. You are. pfft..

El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."

by ResDog on Sep 18, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is our leadoff hitter have a high OBP?

Is our ResDog learning?

by Evan on Sep 18, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is am.

El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."

by ResDog on Sep 18, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Candlestick! Dazzling white home unis! 50K rowdy fans on their feet to watch Mark Lewis PH! Doug Henry! Jeff Kent to JT Snow double play.

Ah, one of my favorite games. This was the season I converted to Giantsfanaticism.

by esseffgeez on Sep 17, 2009 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yay!

"I FEEL A LOT OF HAPPY!" - Juan Uribe

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Sep 17, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah, that was great. I’m proud to say that I was there with my pops

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Sep 17, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was there with a friend

Who happened to be a Dodger fan. He said it was one of the most painful moments of his life.

One interesting thing I noticed watching the replay last night. Candiotti was pitching to Jeff Kent and threw a ball that went about 59 feet, bounced off the catcher and ended up at Kent’s feet. Kent, with his bat, rolls the ball back to the Dodger cather who throws it back to Candiotti.

These days, that ball would have been thrown out of play and probably destroyed by a bomb squad at a secure site on Treasure Island.

What the hell is Brett Favre doing here?

by otis29 on Sep 18, 2009 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

The answer was Ben Francisco, whom the Phillies got as a throw-in to the Cliff Lee deal. The answer was Jonny Gomes, who’s done well for the Reds filling in for various injured outfielders. The answer was a right-handed hitting outfielder with a little pop.

Once again, this is another reason why Sabean needs to go. We need a GM who is creative and who knows exactly what he needs, but is smart about getting it. We did not need to give up Tim Alderson to get Freddy Sanchez. As Grant pointed out around the time of that trade, we could have acquired Felipe Lopez at a cheaper price. Plus, he would have been a better addition to the line-up.

The Giants don’t have the payroll of the Dodgers, Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, or Angels. The Giants need to be run by a smart, efficient GM who will run this organization properly. Brian Sabean makes too many moves at too great a cost that could have been avoided with better analysis, creativity, and planning.

I am sick of how he runs this team; I sick of how the manager creates his line-ups; in short, I am sick and tired of having a GM and manager that are the laughing stock of the baseball world.

by Squire_Boone on Sep 17, 2009 8:57 PM PDT reply actions  

what’s the point? If Sabean had gotten Ben Francisco or Johnny Gomes, Bochy wouldn’t have played them anyway. They aren’t guys he’s been running out there all year.

proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria

by rxmeister on Sep 18, 2009 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but that’s only because they’re not the guys getting the lion’s share of the playing time.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Sep 18, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sabean is the GM. He can tell Bochy what to do, or force Bochy’s hand. Keven Towers did it. Why not Sabean?

Besides, the real problem is that Sabean did not adequately address this team’s needs. Sure, Freddy Sanchez is an upgrade at 2B, but was he the best option? Was Garko the best option? I think most people would agree that Sabean probably had better options out there, but he did not take advantage of them.

For example, he could have stuck with either Frandsen or Downs at 2B and known by early July that he needed to acquire a 2B (like Lopez). Instead, Sabean kept shuffling between the two, never giving either a long enough look to determine if they were a solution. By the time he realized he needed a 2B, the best option available was Sanchez, but at the cost of Alderson. I was not against trading Alderson, but not for someone like Sanchez.

by Squire_Boone on Sep 18, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Speaking of Frandsen...

…it still boggles my mind that in a season where the Giants have featured a gaping void at 2B for most of the year, Kevin Frandsen has had exactly five (5) starts there.

Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).

by EliminateMe on Sep 18, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly!

Once Manny Burriss was sent down, you have to think the logical choice to start at second for a month would be the 2B you have at AAA whose career minor league numbers are pretty good (.330 avg, but I am not sure on the rest).

by Squire_Boone on Sep 18, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

We could have rented Lopez, since he is a free agent at the end of the season. That’s exactly what we don’t want, IMO.

by campanari on Sep 18, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Currently watching the replay of the Brian Johnson game

After last night, part of me is worried that Johnson will swing and miss… or that Beck won’t get out of the 10th inning jam.

Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis.

by j14 on Sep 17, 2009 9:14 PM PDT reply actions  

GIANTS WIN GIANTS WIN!!!!!!!!

Now offering free hugs from Amy G.
Billy Ripken is still a douche bag.

by kbsofaraway08 on Sep 17, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ben Francisco? Jonny Gomes?

If we’re going to go there. then let’s not forget another July RH-OF-with-pop acquisition: Scott Hairston.

by ho-hum baby on Sep 17, 2009 9:16 PM PDT reply actions  

That would be a bittersweet acquisition

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption

by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 17, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

FFFFFFFF

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Sep 17, 2009 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

hey, quit farting

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Sep 17, 2009 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

But Ben Francisco, San Francisco Giant just sounds so good…

by koel on Sep 18, 2009 5:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’ve been hoping for this for a long time.

by The Double Deuce on Sep 18, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

We did briefly have a Franscisco Santos on the roster several years back.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 18, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

I know. You tell me that every time we talk about Ben Francisco. ;)

by The Double Deuce on Sep 18, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

I NEVER REPEAT THINGS.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 18, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Neither does Kim Batiste!

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Sep 18, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh KLAW....
Phil (Danville, CA)
You are familiar with a lot of languages. Is it true that Aaron Rowand translates to “Automatic Out” in some Eastern European dialects?

Keith Law
  (1:27 PM)

In Molvanian, his name translates as a term that can only be pronounced by sticking your entire fist down your throat, producing thirteen minutes of emesis.
Aaron B. (Novato, Calif.)
How much do the Giants need to upgrade their offense this offseason? Drastically, really drastically, or really really drastically?


Keith Law
  (1:31 PM)

Really drastically. Figure they start next season with Panda at 3b (star) and Posey at c (at least above-average hitter for his position). I don’t really like Uribe, but he’s had a good year and they could probably bring him back at a reasonable cost. That puts them, oh, three hitters short of an offense?

This one is actually interesting for our discussion :

Steve (Boston)

I don’t know Keith, I just read Heyman say Ben Molina had another strong year at the plate…


Keith Law
  (1:37 PM)

Ah, speaking of which, I spoke to someone at the Giants about Sabean’s comments that a guy a year out of college shouldn’t be a challenge to Molina. He was speaking just about 2009, not about 2010, which, while I don’t fully agree with it, does make some sense. Yes, I think Posey would be better for the Giants right now, but I understand the reluctance to stick him in there while they’re still in the race. If Molina starts for SF on Opening Day next year, you can boil up the tar and I’ll bring the feathers.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Sep 17, 2009 10:02 PM PDT reply actions  

They signed too many people that don’t take pitches or walks. They shouldn’t have signed Molina, Rowand, and Renteria. One of them would have been ok. Then, they were unlucky and three guys that they found could hit also didn’t take pitches or walks: Sandoval, Velez, and Uribe.

Rowand looks lost at the plate now. I don’t blame Bochy for pinch hitting for him.
 

I was thinking about it last night while watching the Giants on ESPN360 though. If someone revealed to McCovey Chronicles that the Giants would be three and a half games out of the wildcard with twenty or so to go at the beginning of the year, people here would have taken it and been really happy.

by parisspleen on Sep 17, 2009 10:12 PM PDT reply actions  

Molina was a good signing

he was the core of this team the last couple years. They overpayed Rowand and Renteria by a lot

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by GrahamCrakalaka on Sep 17, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

since when

is the core of a lousy team a good signing?

He’s the corn in your poop. Sure, it’s the only part that is still edible, but why the fuck would you?

by DrStankus on Sep 17, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

He’s the corn in your poop. Sure, it’s the only part that is still edible, but why the fuck would you?

Eep.

Thing C

by markdash on Sep 17, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Technically, you could eat the rest of it. It wouldn’t be worth much since our bodies are pretty efficient about using energy and nutrients… but you could.

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Sep 18, 2009 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

WEBSITE LINKS HOWIE MANDEL TO POOP EATING

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
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by jcb9 on Sep 18, 2009 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh boy.

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Sep 18, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

HOWIE POOP IT

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by bondslegend on Sep 18, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Awesome

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by groug on Sep 18, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

no you couldn't

you’d get really really really sick.

Well, I mean, I guess technically you could, you just wouldn’t be feeling to hot for the next week or so.

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by Viliphied on Sep 18, 2009 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, yeah, I guess you’re right. For some reason I was thinking about animals that eat their own poop for the energy reserves (elephants do this, no?) and just thought, “well if they can do it, we should be able to, too!”

But there are quite a few problems associated with human fecal ingestion, now that I give it a second’s actual thought. Most of them digestive…

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Sep 18, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dogs love to eat their own poop. Bu they’re scavengers and their digestive systems are made to to handle all sorts of disgusting stuff.

Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis

by jcb9 on Sep 18, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is quickly becoming my least favorite McC hijack ever.

by Evan on Sep 18, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Shit.

This is so disgusting. Please stop.

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Real men don't wear batting gloves.

by GiantsBabe on Sep 18, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Somebody needs to post the Casey Blake is poopin pic.

by The Double Deuce on Sep 18, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
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by Natto on Sep 18, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t remember eating corn!

by m34josh on Sep 18, 2009 5:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree; if the rest of the team was better, he’d be looked at completely differently

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Sep 17, 2009 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bengie was a good signing. He was the best FA catcher out there when he signed, and he had a lot of good moments in his three years. His worst year by far came in the last year of his contract, and that makes the decision easy on whether to keep him or dump him. If he had his 2008 season this year, I would be afraid the Giants’ would go nuts and offer him a new multi year deal.

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by rxmeister on Sep 18, 2009 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

If he was batting seventh he would be looked at totally differently.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Sep 18, 2009 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

People keep saying that

But he’s still a bad hitter. He’s not terrible for a catcher; he’s sort of in the middle of the pack of starting catchers by wOBA. But considering that he’s one of the very highest paid catchers in baseball, that isn’t good.

by taliesin on Sep 18, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Man, I hate off-days.

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Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Sep 17, 2009 11:01 PM PDT reply actions  

It’s not that busy, man. Not that busy.

"I FEEL A LOT OF HAPPY!" - Juan Uribe

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Sep 17, 2009 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

At least it was scheduled on the night of the Office season premiere.

by kimmyg on Sep 18, 2009 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

I appreciated this.

"I FEEL A LOT OF HAPPY!" - Juan Uribe

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Sep 18, 2009 2:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

What did you think?

it was OK but I could see it going downhill pretty easy if they’re not careful

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Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs

by bondslegend on Sep 18, 2009 7:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good, not great. You’re right, they definitely could go downhill from here but last night’s episode was still good for a few laughs.

by kimmyg on Sep 18, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

DAMN, i missed it! guess i’ll just have to watch it today sometime on hulu

by PiKAgiant on Sep 18, 2009 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

If the Giants will play this weekend like I think they will, you will miss this off-day.

If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.

by SFGuy on Sep 18, 2009 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Matt Murton.

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Sep 18, 2009 7:25 AM PDT reply actions  

Matt “Guitar” Murphy

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.

by zenbitz on Sep 18, 2009 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Anyone hear KNBR’s interview with Larry Baer last week? Baer said that he was walking down the street in SF when a guy on MUNI hollered out, “Yo Baer, get a bat!” He said he wanted to shout back, “So which arm do you wanna give up?”

Obviously Zito is untradeable and Timmy is untouchable. But it’s still rough to imagine Sanchez, Bumgarner or Cain in a different uni next season. I’m greedy, I want to keep them all. :(

by esseffgeez on Sep 18, 2009 9:35 AM PDT reply actions  

That’s pretty funny.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Sep 18, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

how about Scott Barnes and Tim Alderson?

by Mrbasepaul on Sep 18, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

We’ve already gotten fair shit trade value outta them…

by esseffgeez on Sep 18, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

And then we pick the offense up, snuggle it, and tell it that it’s okay? No. We throw the offense after the ball. Now that’s a viral video.

by Grant Brisbee on Sep 18, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

but the ball was returned, thus restoring our hope.

A girl on the interwebz and fan of the pantaloons.
Real men don't wear batting gloves.

by GiantsBabe on Sep 18, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Krukow said...

If Ben Francisco was on the Giants, we’d be called the Ben Francisco Giants. Funny

Brian Sabean is akin to a treatable form of cancer... just get rid of it before it kills you

by milesntrane on Sep 18, 2009 11:21 AM PDT reply actions  

umm, that makes none sense

well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan

Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!

by greatgiantfan on Sep 18, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

His name is Ben Francisco!

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Sep 18, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t get it.

El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."

by ResDog on Sep 18, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s a Firefly reference.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
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by groug on Sep 18, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

His name is Ben Francisco?

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Sep 18, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

No

His name is Ben Francisco.

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by EliminateMe on Sep 18, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can you dumb it down for me doc?

El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."

by ResDog on Sep 18, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Garko got a lot of chances once with the team

From the time the Giants traded for him to August 26, basically a whole month, the Giants played 28 games. In that time, he got in 25 games, started 21 games, and hit .235/.295/.358/.653 with 2 HR in 81 AB (40 AB/HR), and that HR rate probably looks better than it should be because he hit both of them in Colorado on the same day.

I also find it interesting that the argument for playing Garko now is the same reasoning the Giants used to acquire Hillenbrand long ago: because he had proven he could hit in previous seasons and had been hitting that season as well.

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"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Sep 18, 2009 4:52 PM PDT reply actions  

You cannot possibly be arguing that 81 PAs are a good way to judge a player

There’s just no way.

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by groug on Sep 18, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Holliday? How?

Lets just start with the major prospect the Cards gave up for Holliday: Brett Wallace. He’s basically ready to start in the major leagues next season after hitting around mid- to high .800 OPS in AAA (after adjusting for the fact that both his home team’s parks were pitchers parks in the PCL) this season, at 3B, a position of need for the A’s.

The only player who matches up to or beats that would be Pablo Sandoval, and I assume you would not trade him for Holliday. And Rohlinger is not even close enough where you add a whole farm system and you still won’t do the deal.

So we then have to look at our prospects. Alderson is no where’s close. Neither is Villalona after this so-so season (though I still have confidence in him). They probably would have accepted Bumgarner, but I wouldn’t trade Bumgarner for a couple of months of Holliday.

That really only left Buster Posey. While he’s a C and they already have Suzuki, he’s athletic enough to play 3B if the A’s wanted too, and offensively he’s better than Wallace, so we would not need to throw in as many other parts into the trade, though probably still have to sweeten the pot as the A’s will not trade Holliday 1 for 1. I would not trade Posey for 2 months of Holliday.

So how do we get Holliday? The A’s are not stupid, they will want one of our top two prospects for him, either Bumgarner or Posey, and if I were the A’s I would take the Cards offer even if the Giants offered all the rest of the Top 10 prospects to the A’s for Holliday, Wallace looks that good.

And of course we would trade Garko, Sanchez and a prospect for Holliday, that’s a steal, but the point is that the A’s would not do that trade. And that is who you have to convince.

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Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.

"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Sep 18, 2009 5:08 PM PDT reply actions  

That's It

Last week I said it’s a long game and a long season. If we would have kept Barry Bonds we would have won the division !!! What would you rather have? A clubhouse that sings Kum Ba Ya and loses or a clubhouse that has a little edge to it that wins !!!? Barry Bonds’ intentional walks alone would have contributed to at least 10 more wins. They really screwed Barry and now he and the Giants have to suffer !!!
Next year we get rid of Darko and Randy and Renteria and get someone that hits the crap out of the ball so the others teams have someone to fear !!! That’s what Barry did for us. He scared the opposing pitching and now it’s over !!! What a shame !!! The Giants organization really screwed up on that one !!! Oh Well, there’s always
“NEXT YEAR” !!!

by Roostertlc on Sep 20, 2009 5:06 PM PDT reply actions  

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