One or the other?
by deuce deuce on Sep 17, 2009 12:22 PM PDT
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The unlikely run for the postseason by the Giants in 2009 very well could result in extensions to both Bruce Bochy and Brian Sabean. Keith Law alluded to this in a recent chat:
Keith Law (1:47 PM)
I imagine that the Giants' run at the wild card means job security for Bochy and Sabean, even though Bochy seems to have his own level of managerial fail.
However, if you’re a Giants fan, you would probably rather see at least one of these two individuals given their walking papers (perhaps even both). So I ask the question: If you could only choose one of the two to be replaced, who would it be?
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I purposely left that option out so you would be forced to choose one. So choose one dammit!
by deuce deuce on Sep 17, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOUNG PEOPLE WON’T VOTE UNLESS RAPPERS LIKE PUFF DIDDLY MAKE IT COOL
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by Useful_Idiot on Sep 17, 2009 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GET OUT THERE AND VOTE OR I WILL MOTHER F***** KILL YOU
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SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 17, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SHAKE YOUR ASS WHEN YOU VOTE BITCH!
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by Giant among Angels on Sep 17, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by ResDog on Sep 17, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bochy I guess
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 17, 2009 12:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What?
Pay attention people. If you get rid of Sabean, the new guy will bring in his own new manager. It’s a two-fer! Save time, save money, vote SABEAN!!!!!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Sep 18, 2009 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That isnt really the point of this. But I guess that works
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Sep 18, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s gotta be Sabean
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Sep 17, 2009 12:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
One brings lineup mismanagement and veterans playing over young guys.
One brings bad contracts and a lack of understanding of sabermetrics.
Oh the choices…
by deuce deuce on Sep 17, 2009 12:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
One was responsible for bringing the other in so you could say he’s responsible for lineup mismanagement, veterans playing over young guys, bad contracts, and a lack of understanding of sabermetrics.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Sep 17, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you can add the lack of sabermetrics to Bochy as well, since he fails to understand sample size, OBP, etc. when it comes to constructing a line-up.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Sep 17, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/ glances at 474 PA in the #4 hole with .285 OBP
Were did you get such a wild idea.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Sep 20, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the Giants system it’s mandatory to use Sabeanmetrics. Basically everything is decided by throwing darts at a dart board while blindfolded.
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by TehGreekStallion on Sep 20, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Sabean’s created a masterpiece where we’re actually happy the big change in the offseason won’t be getting rid of him. He’s fooled us all!
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"Nothing important ever happened without me."
by ResDog on Sep 17, 2009 12:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Bochy might be a worse manager than Sabean is a GM. However, I feel that GM is about 10 times as important as manager. So I voted Sabean.
Although when Bochy PH Winn for Rowand last night it was one of the more mystifying moves of a mystifying season.
I will say that Bochy’s lineups (in my analysis) probably cost the Giants 1.5-2 wins this year in aggregate. I am not sure if that’s totally fair because to get it that high you have to bat Sandoval 2nd (and probably Lewis 1st), and I am not sure any managerial candidate does that. In any case, 1 ish wins from lineup construction seems… gargantuan.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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by zenbitz on Sep 17, 2009 12:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m mystified over the fact that most people (mainstream types I guess) think that Bochy has done an amazing job. Nah. This is what happens when you have insanely good starting pitching and above-average defense.
by xanthan on Sep 17, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give him credit for making Lincecum and the rest of the staff pitch well. Not his fault his lineups suck
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2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Sep 17, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He made Lincecum pitch better? How did he do that?
by xanthan on Sep 18, 2009 5:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sarchasm
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by Useful_Idiot on Sep 18, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GM IS much more important than manager
The GM is the manager’s boss. If he doesn’t like the lineups the manager is putting out there he can tell the manager to start playing the guys he wants. So I think you can generally assume that the general manager is in agreement with the choices the field manager makes about the players who get the most playing time. Since this is, in my view, the biggest failing of Bochy as a manager, it’s really Sabean’s fault, so he should go.
The manager really only has true discretion over in-game moves, and while some of those have been mystifying, as you say, those have such a tiny impact on the team’s record that I don’t think they’re really worth worrying about.
by taliesin on Sep 17, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The GM is the manager’s boss. If he doesn’t like the lineups the manager is putting out there he can tell the manager to start playing the guys he wants.
I’m sorry but this is the biggest bunch of bullshit ever. The GM has way too much to do actually be concerned with trying to tell the manager how to do his job. The idea is the GM should hire a manager who will usually do what the GM would want done, however they’re hiring someone to do a JOB. That job entails doing whatever they feel is necessary, not what the GM would do. Otherwise said GM would just be the manager. That’s one reason I thought that Arizona fired Bob Melvin this year. Because they wanted even more control over things like lineups and such. Which is way different than any other team operates. Not even the Yankees micromanage that much.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 17, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about the A’s?
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Sep 17, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then how do you explain that in virtually every interview, when Bochy is asked various questions regarding lineup construction, he invariably says he’s going to “sit down with Brian” and discuss it, and that he says they “talk about these things” almost every day?
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by Roger on Sep 17, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably because usually bosses always want to talk to their employees about what they’re working on and such. They just want to be kept in the loop. I think it’s a really stupid thing to say that the GM should or does order the manager who to put on his lineup card. The manager is the guy who is with the team constantly, he’s the one who is supposed to make those daily decisions based on what he sees and hears etc.
If you were a big league manager and you had your GM coming to dictate who to start I have a feeling you wouldn’t like it very much. Which is probably why there was such a big deal made of A.J. Hinch, a member of the Diamondbacks front office replacing Bob Melvin as manager so that there was even more control over how things were being dictated on the field by the front office.
As for the bullshit Bochy says, it seems to mostly be rhetoric. Blame Sabean for hiring Bochy that’s plenty fair, but to expect or want Sabean to order Bochy on how to make his lineup is fucking ridiculous. There is nothing in Sabean’s history that would suggest he has ever been THAT hands on.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 17, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Want to add that since Sabean is not guaranteed to be Bochy’s boss, I don’t see Bochy deferring to him much when it comes to these things.
If there were no guarantee that your boss was going to be your boss next year, would you let him dictate to you how to do your job if you don’t agree with it? If your job is on the line, you’re going to go with what you think is best regardless of what he tells you.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Sep 17, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they’re hiring someone to do a JOB. That job entails doing whatever they feel is necessary, not what the GM would do. Otherwise said GM would just be the manager.
I disagree pretty strongly with this. Hiring somebody to do a job does not mean that once you’ve hired them you just completely wash your hands of the situation. Yes, you’re not doing the actual job on a day-to-day basis, but if the employee is not doing the job how you want it done, you tell him to do it differently.
Obviously Sabean is not going to be filling out the lineup card every day, but he sure in hell could tell Bochy, “you’re playing Posey,” or “Lewis needs to be leading off.” It’s fairly clear that that’s not happening, probably because Sabean agrees with what Bochy is doing.
by taliesin on Sep 17, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Bochy has done a good job managing the bullpen or do you just think we’ve had good pitching this year?
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Sep 17, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I give Bochy credit for this. Obviously almost all of those guys have had good seasons, but it’s impossible to separate the fact that they pitched well from the way they were managed. Were they just good because of talent, or were they put in situations where they could succeed? Most likely both are true.
by taliesin on Sep 17, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t give him much credit for this. It doesn’t take much to manage the bullpen when your starters (all of them) are consistently giving you 6-8 quality innings a game. This has made it less necessary for him to use people on consecutive days and he hasn’t had to cover many innings with the guys he has down there.
I will give him some credit for quickly moving Howry down in the pecking order and replacing him with Romo. Other than that, he hasn’t had to make any decisions.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Sep 17, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he gets credit for
o getting the max out of a questionable bullpen
o handling the starters reasonably well
However, i don’t think he gets anywhere near +1 win back for it…
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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by zenbitz on Sep 17, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Generally I think he's managed the pitching pretty well.
However, the number of times he’s sent a pitcher out to hit in a close game, and then let him only pitch to one more batter in the next inning before taking him out, drives me crazy.
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by EliminateMe on Sep 17, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t give him the credit – I think Rags deserves the credit for the pitching staff..
by GiantChris on Sep 17, 2009 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rags was also pitching coach under Alou and Baker, though, and I think the pitching has clearly been handled better during Bochy’s tenure.
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by EliminateMe on Sep 18, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fixed
Rags was also pitching coach under Alou and Baker, though, and I think the pitching has clearly been handled better during Bochy’s tenure.
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by Viva Gigantes on Sep 18, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true too...
…but you don’t think Bochy’s handling of the pitching is an improvement of Alou’s? Alou’s bullpen management in particular was atrocious.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 18, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/Jim Brower warms up
/sits down
/warms up
/sits down
/pitches two innings
/warms up some more
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by Natto on Sep 18, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say Bochy because I think Sabean would be able to commit to more youth in the lineup when the options come up (like Bowker and Posey) but Bochy is the absolutely completely wrong manager to be able to start integrating more young guys into the lineup (as shown by this year.) So Bochy.
Love to get rid of both though.
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by jponry on Sep 17, 2009 1:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely. What was your sense of Dusty Baker? Was it Sabean forcing him to prefer veterans, or did he just innately prefer them himself?
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by Lyle on Sep 18, 2009 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabean goes
if he’s replaced, then his replacement will let Bochy go, so it really is both. I can see a scenario where Bochy goes, but Sabean stays and he hires the same type of retread manager he’s hired before. We’d still be stuck with a guy who doesn’t understand the economics of the game and how it is changing and another manager that relies on crusty vets instead of developing young studs hitters.
The org has pieces of the puzzle to be really good again. It’s time to turn the reins over to someone who knows how to put a puzzle together.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 17, 2009 1:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Avec, Sabean!
If Bochy had only young guys on the roster (like AZ), he’d have no other choice. He’s playing with the toys Sabean gave him.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 17, 2009 1:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
With, Sabean???
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Sep 18, 2009 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot I even posted this. I thought I hit “cancel”.
It was originally supposed to be “Avec Joie, Sabean!” from a movie I saw where the character was named “Sabine”.
by hokysmksbw on Sep 18, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
He’d forfeit every game ’til Sabean shows he is ready to win through the aide of grizzled veteran veteranocity. Bochy is actually kind-hearted and good for veterans. Hating Bochy for wanting has been vets is like hating a person for preferring to rescue a dog from the pound instead of getting a puppy.
Matt Cain's right hand beats a Royal Flush.
by Viva Gigantes on Sep 18, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this is true. If Sabean goes, Bochy will go with him.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Sep 17, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure that’s true at all, i think they’d be a decent chance of Bochy coming back if we got a new GM as well. On the outside it seems like Bochy’s done a decent job (i’m sure he’ll get manager of the year votes) & so i don’t think it follows that if Sabean goes, Bochy goes.
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by GiantFan on Sep 18, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should have probably read the question before voting…
So minus one from the Sabean total and add it to the Bochy side
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by j14 on Sep 17, 2009 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I actually like Sabean. Every GM makes mistakes, but the team has enjoyed it’s most sustained run of success since leaving New York with him at the helm. Doesn’t that count for something. People seem to demand perfection, and it’s just insane.
Now, Bochy is going out made making bad decisions night after night. Not excusable. The answer is obvious: Bochy
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by Karlifornia on Sep 17, 2009 1:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Um
The team enjoyed its most sustained success under Sabean because they had the best hitter in history, who Sabean did not acquire, on the roster. Some of his moves went well, some went poorly, but to attribute the team’s success from 1997-2003 to Sabean just seems nutty to me. This year’s success, such as it is, can be credited to Sabean, but look at where the production is coming from. On a team with an $80M payroll, the three best players are making, collectively, $4M. So, basically, two first-round draft picks and an overseas signing came through. A huge chunk of the payroll is just wasted. I don’t see a genius GM at work.
Other than deciding the starting lineup (and I know that’s like “Other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?”), I don’t think Bochy is particularly worse than any other manager. And the starting lineup is just as much on Sabean as it is on Bochy. Sabean acquired those players and put them on the roster, and if he doesn’t like how Bochy is using them, he’s Bochy’s boss, he can tell him to play different ones.
by taliesin on Sep 17, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um
So, basically…He can only take credit for success when he doesn’t have any legends on the roster?
The team has to overpay for position players, because hitters don’t like coming here. Carlos Lee, Lance Berkman, et al, said they don’t wanna play here. Ok, but you say “Um…What about Zito?” Well, I personally believe that Sabean was leaned on by ownership to sign Zito as a “new face of the franchise”. Admittedly, that’s pure speculation on my part, but that’s just how I feel.
The Renteria move pretty much had to happen. Maybe not for him. They should have gone after O-Dog, yes. We didn’t get O-Dog, whatever. Gotta go after what appears to be the next best thing. We were looking at maybe the worst infield in the history of baseball before the signings of him and Juan Uribe. Renteria hasn’t done anything, but Uribe was a good signing.I’d rather them sign two players and have one be disappointing, and one be a suprise than watch an infield of Burriss and Frandsen the entire season.
The fact that you’re damning him for having Lincecum, Cain, and Sandoval is interesting. Lincecum is the best pitcher in baseball, Cain is a Top 10 pitcher, and Sandoval is Top 10 in batting average.
We all figured this was going to be a lost season, but here they are, ahead of schedule. Give Sabean time to finish the rebuild…maybe 2 or 3 seasons. The way it’s gone so far, you can’t tell me it’s been a failure. I think the day-to-day mismanagement of the players has been way more infuriating, it may just be because I endure it every day. Saying that, EVERY team gives out bad contracts. It’s up to the manager to sit the disappointments and play the guys who can produce.
Billy Ripken is not a fuck face
by Karlifornia on Sep 17, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not a huge Sabean supporter but I have defended him at points. However, this is pretty bad reasoning. The problem is not with being able to identify the problems with the team, anyone could have told you SS and 2nd base were going to be an issue. The issue is the contracts he has signed that cannot blame on Magowan (btw, I agree the Zito thing was not his call) Renteria, Roberts, Rowand, Benitez, etc. were all bad/average players that he paid WAY too much for. When Orlando Cabrera signs a 1yr/$4 million deal while Reneteria signs a 2 year/$18 million deal, that is some horrible GMing.
by AngelWillSaveUs on Sep 17, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean Magowan signed Zito to that big contract, not Sabean?
I don’t think I have heard this before. Did they actually say (imply) this somewhere?
by DJ Tofu on Sep 18, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
this team has to overpay for position players because it cannot develop them
Giving Sabean “credit” for the Renteria signing is like giving him credit for trading Matt Morris for Raj Davis.
The moves, atomically, were not that bad at the time (Renteria turned sour, and I think we all knew there was some chance of that… but you are correct that he had to do SOMETHING)…
But they are “obvious” fixes to bad situations that he himself created.
All of these atomic examples (Renteria, Sandoval, Lincecum, Cain) are not really relevant – I mean, the results of ANY individual player aquisition is going to have more than a little randomness associated with. No one EVER knows for certain if a player is “done” or if this rookie or that rookie will pan out. They just play the odds.
Giving Sabes credit for S-L-C is like giving a hold ’em player credit for not fucking up when he gets dealt pocket Kings.
You have to consider his performance in the aggregate… and in the aggregrate, since Bonds left the offense (1/2 the game) has been bad and getting worst to where it’s now basically the worst in the league. And this is 4 years of “rebuilding” (a bogus concept anyway). The pitching staff is contrarywise, the best in the league… and he is responsible for developing it. But at best… it’s a .500 team that’s playing a little over it’s head.
And in fact – given that ALL the value of the team in concentrated in a few, cheap players, it’s really a total abject failure that a team with a 80-90M payroll and those 3 or 5 guys isn’t actually great.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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by zenbitz on Sep 17, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m only gonna comment on two things here:
The Renteria move pretty much had to happen. Maybe not for him. They should have gone after O-Dog, yes. We didn’t get O-Dog, whatever. Gotta go after what appears to be the next best thing.
This just gets the facts wrong. Sabean signed Renteria very early in the free agent period, when Orlando Hudson was still available. Hudson wasn’t signed until February. So, yeah, Renteria was his first choice, and he offered too much, too soon. Still, even though it’s been an almost completely unmitigated disaster, he did need to sign someone. I’d say he gets at least half a pass on that, especially since he did pick up Uribe off the scrap heap.
The fact that you’re damning him for having Lincecum, Cain, and Sandoval is interesting. Lincecum is the best pitcher in baseball, Cain is a Top 10 pitcher, and Sandoval is Top 10 in batting average.
I’m certainly not “damning” Sabean for having Lincecum, Cain, and Sandoval. All I’m saying is those guys developed through the minor leagues and had very little to do with Sabean. (We know, for example, that Sabean did not even scout Lincecum because Tidrow was afraid of tipping other clubs to the Giants interest.) The part of the roster where most of the money is spent, though, is on free agents and guys acquired through trade — guys Sabean did play a big role in acquiring. And they are not good. When you get 2/5 of a pitching rotation for free, you would think you could do better with $76 million than to field the league’s worst offense.
by taliesin on Sep 17, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This will now be part of my sig. Well done, sir!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
by Lyle on Sep 18, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t the GM generally get to pick [hire] a manager? So if Sabean is gone maybe the new guy hires somebody good, if there is such a thing/
by Merope on Sep 17, 2009 4:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sabean
We’ve been through this so many times it is painful.
But for the most part, most of us are happy with the system and the talent. Some of the FA signings of late have been awful, but even Edgar was understandable and it was short-term. The Garko trade looks bad now, but the fact that Bochy is not playing him against LHP when his line is .317 .389 .515 is not Sabean’s fault. Against all the bad or even average moves, he deserves credit for the non-roster invitees such as Uribe, Medders, Miller, and I think he deserves credit for the Unit even if he only lasted half a season. He deserves credit for Penny, and for not trading Dirty for nothing at the deadline. He has been pretty good and has a good group of young talent evaluators working for him. The minor league success this year is no mirage and dividends will be paid there. Moreover, there is no obvious GM I am dying to have. Look at how some of the more Stats oriented GMs have fared…
by capn on Sep 17, 2009 4:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Unfair snark coming
Look at how some of the more Stats oriented GMs have fared…
Yeah, that Theo Epstein really sucks.
by taliesin on Sep 17, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bochy...
It’s true that the expectations were low and the team outperformed and that ultimately the boss gets credit for that, but they had historically good pitching this year the likes of which we have pretty much never seen and lost a bunch of games they should not have lost. The lineup tinkering and sticking with old tired garbage was and is inexcusable. The lack of energy on that field last night until the 9th inning was ridiculous. I mean this was a fucking playoff game and they had to win it and they went out flat and that is on bochy whether because he could not get them up (because he is taking too much Haldol?) or because he ran out a lineup of old tired and injured shits. Edgar is no doubt hurt and the freaking grand slam was huge, but pretty much 3 of his 6 main upper body joints just don’t work and he is out of gas.
I guess it comes down to this quote for me:
“Really, that was a tough call today.”
Bochy essentially sat Garko in favor of shortstop Edgar Renteria, who had missed three games with shoulder and elbow woes. Renteria went 0-for-4 and is batting .116 in September.
“Edgar, not long ago, won a game with a grand slam,” Bochy said.
Yes and about 2 years ago Barry Bonds hit a 900 foot homer. He is obsessed with these ridiculous gut instincts he has and then when one works, it confirms his superstitions and he does it again. Baseball is at its core an emrpiric game. That does not mean there is no room for subjectivity, but the numbers generally do not lie. Bochy hates numbers and clings to his hunches and instincts. Teams that pitch like this should make the playoffs and the fact this team did will not has a lot to do with the lack of tools Bochy had, but in my opinion it has more to do with how he used the tools he did have.
by capn on Sep 17, 2009 4:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Once again, I can deal with Sabean's mistakes
But I cannot deal with Bochy’s mistakes anymore. Bochy’s mistakes shows up immediately on the boxscores and translates directly to wins and losses in a tangible manner, which directly leads to my blood pressure boiling.
Sabean’s mistakes, while some of them egregious, doesn’t kill me on a day to day basis. Yes I see Aaron Rowand out there. I get that. Even he has been worth 10M this year using VORP models, so I can deal with that.
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by jctGamer on Sep 17, 2009 6:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
this
is pretty much how I feel.
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by Viliphied on Sep 17, 2009 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/ stamped agreed
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Sep 20, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bochy
I have probably complained about every Giants manager since Herman Franks, but Bochy’s bone-headed blunders just make we react “wtb” over and over again like no other before him. True, he’s been dealt a poor hand with the roster that Sabean has constructed, but I can’t help but feel that with reasonably intelligent allocation of the limited resources that he has been given (see Garko, Bowker, Posey, Lewis, Uribe at SS) with regards to line up construction, in-game strategy, etc., and the Giants are in the post season this year.
by koel on Sep 17, 2009 8:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Though neither of them are to be what they claim
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
by ResDog on Sep 18, 2009 8:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If you’re looking to get silly, you better go back to from where you came
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Sep 18, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sooner, not later, both of them must go
cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"
by foothillsfan on Sep 18, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
…
…
(trying not to cheat)
…
Because the cops don’t need you, and man they expect the same.
?
El Presidente Larry Baer's epitaph
"Nothing important ever happened without me."
by ResDog on Sep 18, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TWSS
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
by zenbitz on Sep 18, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how much Sabes is involved in the draft process but...
Does he not get some credit for the bomb drafting we’ve done lately? Timmy, Cain, MadBum, Posey… we’ve been a really good team in the draft the last few years.
"Snow woulda had it!!!"
Would really appreciate someone informing him whether or not we're in this. The media says we are. The sensibilities say otherwise.
by beat_la_25 on Sep 18, 2009 10:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We haven't drafted a positon player who got 400+ AB's since Bill Mueller
He has done well drafting in the top half of Round 1 recently, but the utter lack of anything we’ve gotten from just about every pick outside of R1 is appalling.
by dprodigy19 on Sep 18, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred Lewis got more than 400 ABs last year.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Sep 18, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is possible to replace sabean with somebody worse, say, J.P. Richardi
It is impossible to find a worse manager than Bruce Bochy.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
by jctGamer on Sep 18, 2009 10:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sabean
Because I know that Bochy wouldn’t make it out of 2010 if he came back.
by dprodigy19 on Sep 18, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe that Sabean thinks Bochy has done a great job.
That, and I am afraid that Bochy will win NL manager of the year. Is there a precedent for the manager of the year to be fired?
Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.
by jasomack on Sep 18, 2009 6:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Joe Girardi in 06
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Sep 19, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering Bochy’s contract ends at the end of the season, the Giants could just let him go and not fire him.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Sep 19, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is the way Dusty left after 2002.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
by SFGuy on Sep 19, 2009 2:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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