Wait until next year ... again
by lexluth7 on Sep 10, 2009 11:38 PM PDT
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PrintI'm 51, which I expect is older then most that post on this board. I've been a diehard Giants fan all of my life. Which means, "wait until next year" is indelibly etched into my psyche.
This has been one of the more surprising, interesting and frustrating years of my Giant fanaticism. I expected this team to win 79-82 games. I never dreamed in April that they would be contending through early Sept.
Watching Timmy is always a joy. He won't get the Cy this year - but he's a better pitcher than he was in '08. The best in baseball. I just hope the back thing really is just a spasm. Cain has, I think, turned the corner and is beginning to fulfill his considerable promise. Having two horses at the top of the rotation is a huge plus. Add the fact that Sanchez is beginning to look like he may be getting it together (course I felt that way in August 08) and it gets more exciting. Zito is Zito. But he's not a bad no. 4. Forget the money - it isn't his fault they are grossly overpaying him. And I see Bumgarner as the 5 next year. Not a bad rotation to say the least. i wouldn't trade any of them. Except of course Zito and no one will take his salary on.
The frustration for me lies in an organization that has no coherent hitting approach; and, in my opinion, has no imagination. As for the latter, Bochy is the perfect manager for this organizaton. Safe. Likeable. Dull. Despite the fact that he has a team that has to scratch for runs, he has very much a laizze faire approach to managing. They hardly ever hit and run. Bunting is out of the question - hell none of them seem to be able to bunt anyway. Its tough to score when you don't walk, don't steal bases, and don't hit home runs.
As to the hitting approach, I've spent a lot of time looking at minor league numbers this year. And they scare me. Villalona, before he got hurt, almost never walked. Brandon Crawford also doesn't walk much. The younger Giants - Schierholtz being the best example, also eshew walks. Sandoval has actually gotten a little better - at least he appears willing to listen.
The Giant free agent pick ups seem to carry on the tradition. Rowand, Uribe no plate discipline. Its pathetic actually. I mean for chrissakes how many sliders in the dirt a foot off the outside has Rowand swung at this year.
So where does that leave the Giants next year. First - if Posey is not in the opening day lineup it will be a sign of big trouble. Keeping him in the minors to hone his catching skills would be a crime. They need his bat now. Hell I think had they moved him out of the catching role and into the outfield (or third base) where I think he belongs, he would have been with the big club two months ago and would be contributing. The guy can obviously hit. And he has a clue of the strike zone - if his walks to strike out ratio is indicative of his ability.
Sanchez was a good pickup. He will help a lot next year. Garko will not be on the roster. The Giants have already decided he's a major defensive liability. It would have been nice had they figured that out prior to the trade.
Frankly, Pablo should be at first anyway. If you resign Molina, have Posey learn LF in the instructional league and pick up a third baseman, then things look a little better. Of the outfield free agents out there - I'll take Carl Crawford. .300 .360 OBP and 60 steals. Plus he's a hell of a centerfielder. Rowand? Eat his salary and get a mid level prospect or two if you can. That would give them this lineup
Crawford CF
Sanchez 2b
Posey LF I know, lots of pressure.
Sandoval 1B
Scheirholtz RF
Uribe 3b Obviously I'd like an upgrade here. Unsure of the third baseman that may be available.
Renteria SS
Molina C
Yes they are still missing a power bat. But I don't think there will be many available in free agency and the Giants don't have a lot of trade bait.
Better than this year. If you add a third baseman with some pop (Beltre?), that would be a big help.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Posey LF I know, lots of pressure.
nononononononononononononononononononononononono
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Come on Natto
this squad can never have enough LF….
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
"Waaaaah!"-Bengie Molina
by natteringnabob on Sep 11, 2009 5:55 AM PDT up reply actions
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH
Posey is a catcher. Posey is MUCH more valuable as a catcher. There is no evidence Posey is a terrible catcher. Posey should stay at catcher. If Posey begins to wear down years from now, he can be moved from catcher.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 11, 2009 12:17 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I just hope the back thing really is just a spasm.
The entire fanbase wonders…and waits…
Ya know...ignorance really IS bliss.
Well - I do , anyway.
by victor frankenstein on Sep 11, 2009 12:33 AM PDT reply actions
I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but..
you wrote about following the minors and then following it up with a Posey to LF suggestion. Did you just forget about Bowker in all of this?
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
Bowker’s one of them overrated AAAA players.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
Bowker
I’d love to see him get a shot. Maybe at first base. If he can handle left – great.
As for the “Posey is a catcher” stuff – he has been for a couple years. He was a shortstop before that. I have seen nothing to suggest he is a terrific defensive catcher. It is the toughest position on the field by a mile on the body. Why have your best hitting prospect take that punishment???
Last but not least – the Giants have the worst of in the major leagues. They need more help there than anywhere else.
Posey , the catcher is being regarded as NOT a catcher.
I get the stupid thing now.
Ya know...ignorance really IS bliss.
Well - I do , anyway.
by victor frankenstein on Sep 11, 2009 12:36 AM PDT reply actions
Boy I hate to heap on more crap, but if Molina is anywhere near this team next year that means he got a multi year deal, if that happens I will commit genocide. Also Posey is a catcher is a catcher is a catcher, can we please, please, please stop with the moving him to another position madness?
My Will Clark will kick your honor student's ass!
He complained about the team’s hitting approach and then he put the worst offender, Bengie Molina, into his everyday lineup for next year, meaning he thinks the Giants’ should give him a new deal. Not offering Molina a new contract would be a nice statement by the Giants’ that they’re no longer tolerating lack of patience at the plate.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
I think he was merely trying to be creative, suggest new approaches not yet recommended. I applaud his effort, although I disagree with moving Posey and keeping Molina.
The fact of the matter is, even if we resign Molina with the understanding that he will be the backup, Molina will complain and whine until he’s the starter again. I think he wants a starting job and will settle for nothing less. We should take a chance with Posey next year and keep Whiteside, or a $1mil backup catcher.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
Molina
is a better than average hitting catcher. he is not a no. 4 hitter. If he’s doing what he is doing hitting 7th or 8ty – everyone is happy.
Exactly
For some reason, it’s really hard to convince people that Molina is not a good hitter, even “for a catcher.”
It’s Friday, you don’t want to spend the weekend in jail…. Maybe just throw something instead
/throws something
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Sep 11, 2009 6:45 AM PDT up reply actions
more like...
I’m going to shoot the next person that wants to movePosey off of catcherNate to 3rd.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 11, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
But if we move Nate to 3rd, it opens up RF for Posey! It’s win-win! (But not win-win-Winn.)
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Sep 11, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Next season, the Giants will employ a ground breaking new defense! Pitcher, Catcher and 7 guys standing in LF!
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 11, 2009 6:54 AM PDT reply actions
I love the idea of us picking up Carl Crawford.....
… switching Posey to LF – not so much!
Why wouldn’t we just do this -
Crawford LF
Sanchez 2B
Posey C
Sandoval 1B
Uribe 3B
Schierholtz RF
Rowand CF
Renteria SS
I really hope Posey can make the same type of impact that Pablo did and hopefully he will be a middle of the order type bat right from the get go…. if not we have to hope someone else gets hot (Rowand/Nate) and could move into the 3rd spot in the order. I also think Pablo will hit for more power next year and will become the power-bat that we need.
I’d rather have Pablo at third with Garko playing first. I think they just got lucky with Uribe this season and it won’t last. There’s a reason Garko was a fairly desirable player this year (until Bochy got his hands on him) and Uribe was only able to get a minor league deal. As for the outfield, I’d like to see Bowker get a shot before we sign an expensive FA like Crawford, who would basically spell Bowker’s end. Perhaps we can take a shot at a cheaper right handed hitting OF who has something to prove, like Xavier Nady.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
Yeah, agreed, as much as I like Uribe this year, I think there is almost none chance he does this again next year. And there is no question that Garko is a much better player than what he’s done this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I’m almost positive Uribe will be back after his season. As a UTIL player that gets 200-300 PA’s in a season, he’s not terrible. He should play solid defense at 2B and be good Freddy Sanchez insurance. He can fake SS a little, too.
I bet the Giants sign him to a 2-year deal.
His season is a little flukey in that I don’t think he’s really a .340 wOBA guy at this stage in his career, but he’s had some pretty terrible BABIP seasons before this one (.244 in ’06 and .262 in ’07).
His defense at 2B/SS and ability to play a few innings at SS should help keep him semi-valuable even if his bat regresses some.
Garko is better than he has looked with SF for sure, but he’s still a below-average bat and well-below-average glove for first base. He’s a nice guy to have on the weak end of a platoon, but that’s about it, and can we afford to pay $3 million for that?
Man
That trade was stupid.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
It’s Bochy that has made the trade look stupid by quickly giving up on Garko. I keep hearing from Giant land that Sabean and Bochy are on the same page, but it’s hard to believe that Sabean traded one of his better prospects for a player that isn’t used and he agrees with it.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU WOULD SAY THAT WITHOUT ASKING BOCHY
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 11, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I was pretty meh on the trade at the time, but even without the playing time issue, I’m becoming less and less enamored with the deal. Even at his best, Garko is just average-ish for 1B and Barnes could have been used as part of a larger package this offseason for someone who’s an actual difference maker.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
assuming Sabean keeps his job, do you really think he could pull off a big trade for a “difference maker?” Sabean can draft minor leaguers and sign free agents, he’s not very good at massive trades.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
So, because Sabean can’t do it, I should be happy we used two of our best pieces on two guys who might not be on the team next year?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Freddy Sanchez will be here, you can be sure of it. I was listening to Larry Baer on KNBR yesterday and he’s very high on him. I don’t know what the feeling is on Garko, but Bochy certainly doesn’t care for him.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
True, Sanchez will likely be here, but he’s going to be a free agent, so…. the Giants paid for a rental there even if they do re-sign him.
Sanchez’s contract calls for an $8 million team option for next year, if I recall correctly.
Insert witty signature of your own choosing here.
by Flapjacks McGurty on Sep 11, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, but it’s a team option, so if Pittsburgh had not traded him, he would be a free agent, since they wouldn’t have picked up the option. The Giants, I suspect, will also not pick up the option but will end up signing him for 3/$18Moor some nonsense.
I think the Giants would have been better suited waiting to sign Sanchez in the off season. I think it was apparent to everyone that he wasn’t the bat that would be a difference maker in this offense.
But this is Sabean, so retarded trades are expected. I supported the trade at first because I expected Sabean to get that difference maker bat. Instead, he got Garko.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
NO.....
Our esteemed GM has already said publicly that even if Sanchez’ option does not vest, he is going to exercise it anyway. Good thinking, Sabes. Toss out another $8M.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
That would explain why he doesn’t play him.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
yeah
dealing for a slight upgrade in a pennant race = thumbs up
giving up a nice LHP prospect for said upgrade = meh
not playing the slight upgrade = wtf?
Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.
Why is there such a resistance here against accepting players changing? I know it doesn’t happen often, but it does, in fact, happen. The same thing is happening to Velez.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
Because nine times out of ten, they go back to what they were before.
In Uribe’s case, his peripherals show that he’s basically doing the same thing he’s always done, but he’s having better luck with his hits falling in and his fly balls going over the fence.
Eugenio is clearly taking more walks and hitting more home runs in the past, plus he’s several years younger than Uribe, so maybe that will turn out to be for real.
Problem with giving a Bowker a chance
Is that we’d have to do it right now, otherwise it will be too late to wait and then sign an FA if he doesn’t pan out.
The “play now” scenario will never happen with Bork at the helm. Hopefully the Giants Brass see how much of a detriment Bork is to young talent and get someone else more suited for a young team.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
I used to think that a Bowker, Rowand, Shierholtz outfield would be the way to start next year but the more I think about it the more I would love Crawford for two reasons.
First, with our pitching I think we have to go all in next year. We have a two-three year window where we have some cheap premium pitching that is only going to get more expensive. Secondly, who would leadoff if we plugged Bowker into left field….. Rowand? I think the lack of a leadoff man in the lineup I posted above would lead to Velez being our opening day LF over Bowker and if it takes trading for Crawfod to prevent that then I’m all aboard.
I know I’ve said this before but please, please, please the obsession with moving Buster off of catcher to LF (or 1B) needs to stop. I do NOT understand why you would take someone who plays the position on the field considered to have the the most value and move him, before he even has a chance to play there a few years, all the way down to one of the two positions with the LEAST defensive value. It makes absolutely zero sense.
Buster Posey is a catcher. The Giants drafted him to be their catcher. He should be their catcher. Period.
And is Carl Crawford a “hell of a centerfielder”? He might seem like he has the tools to be one but he only has about 400 career innings there.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Me too. Wanting to move him to the infield (other than 1B) isn’t quite so bad because at least you’re not jumping the whole defensive spectrum, but ugh.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Shave his bassoon!
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 11, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I know. Maybe we should consider moving him to catcher. Catchers who can hit are so valuable!!
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Oh Jprawny
it’s so easy to find catchers that can hit the Ginats have to play them at other positions!
Pablo this year, Posey next year… in just 6 more years all positions will be full!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
"Waaaaah!"-Bengie Molina
by natteringnabob on Sep 11, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Moving Buster
I was wondering why Buster was moved from SS in the first place. So I found this article from 2006, when he made the switch. Here’s his coach:
“I’ve thought about it as soon as I saw Buster when we recruited him,” Martin Jr. said. “He’s got a catcher’s body. He’s got great hands and arm strength and obviously he can hit. I’ve always thought he would be very valuable to a major league club as a catcher/third baseman. I think everybody sees he’s not a major league shortstop because of foot speed and range. That’s not demeaning to him at all; that’s just the way he is. But his body is very sturdy and it’s very conducive to catching and playing third base.”
Now of course I think it would be a fantastic idea if Pablo and Posey would rotate between 3B and C, keeping both in the lineup and fresh. But I don’t ever recall a team doing something like that, and the Giants aren’t exactly known for innovation.
i like this idea too.
the ability to start your above-average hitting “catcher” (Busto Sandsey) ~145-150 games instead of ~100-120 would be a huge advantage over most of the NL.
the way bengie’s been used the last three years (i.e. catching more games than the rest of his career at his advanced age, hitting cleanup, staying in games late when there’s a backup catcher on the bench and at third base) is one of my biggest pet peeves. if someone under 30 were catcher i’m afraid bochy would start them 170 times, while somehow giving a handful of starts to a steve holm.
Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.
There is the idea of prolonging Posey’s productivity by moving him out of catcher at some point. Catchers have to miss more games and their prime production lasts a bit shorter.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
I wouldn’t be averse to moving him to third or something IF he proves that he’s such a phenomenal hitter that you want to keep him on the team forever and get his bat in the lineup every single day. But we’re a long way from that point.
Yeah, those suggesting he should be moved to LF are really getting ahead of themselves. His MiLE suggests he’d be below average on offense as a LF. SSS, and obviously everyone expects him to improve, but still. I thinks it’s almost a slam dunk that he will be an above-average hitter for a catcher, but whether he turns out to be an above-average hitter, period, is an open question. I certainly hope so, even expect it, but by no means should we count on it.
Posey should only be used at 1b on days the Giants need his bat in the lineup but where they feel they need to give his legs a rest.
Similar to how Cleveland used V. Mart.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
Two days ago, there was two posts about how awesome the Rockies are, and today there are two about next year.
I have a friend who used to work for SuicideGirls, and she said that every once a while, without any coordination, a whole bunch of girls would submit photo sets with the same theme. I guess it’s the same thing with MCC posters.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Please tell us more about your friend.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
She’s a pretty badass web designer, and that’s why she gets to do stuff like that.
Also, working for SG is dramatic. It’s tiny company so there’s all sorts of crossover work, and everyone has to spend time counseling hordes of bitchy, melodramatic, insecure girls.
I guess the parallels with being an MCC mod run pretty deep.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Haha
Sounds like an interesting job.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
@#$% Juan Uribe. Dios es grande.
/posts picture of Howtheyscored with green hair and nipple rings
by Grant Brisbee on Sep 11, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
/someone else posts picture of xanthan with green hair and nipple rings
by Grant Brisbee on Sep 11, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I am sure it is blue in tribute to Bea Arthur.
Very touching, Xanthan.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 11, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
It's simple for me...
I’m hoping the Giants could sign either Holliday or Bay. I know it’s pretty unlikely, but either of them would make this lineup look a heck of a lot better. Assuming they can’t, though, and there’s no major free agent signed, this is the lineup I’m hoping for next year:
Lewis – LF (yes, jprony, you’ve talked me into him)
Sanchez – 2B
Posey – C
Sandoval – 3B
Garko – 1B
Uribe – SS
Rowand – CF
Bowker – RF
Lincecum
The last half of the order is pretty interchangeable, but that lineup looks a lot better than what we’ve seen lately (to me, at least). I’m hoping the Giants realize Renteria needs to go the way of Dave Roberts.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
This line up is just more EPIC FAIL.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
nah
It’s more like FAIL as opposed to EPIC FAIL
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 11, 2009 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I definitely want to get Bowker into the lineup — but I really don’t believe he could handle AT&T RF defensively. I think LF is really the only option open for him and us.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Yeah, I considered that
I’m just not sure who’s going to play RF then…it would have to be a FA, right?
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 11, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
or Nate, I suppose
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 11, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I think both Velez and Lewis’s defensive weaknesses would be highlighted by playing the mini-golf course that is RF. Range is still really important over there, but poor decision making can really cost you a lot of bases over there.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Why all the lineups with Posey hitting third?
Don’t you think that’s a lot of pressure for a rookie? Even Will Clark started batting 2nd.
"The questions are so stupid. I don't believe in rivalries. I don't believe in curses. Wake up the damn Bambino, maybe I'll drill him in the ass."
- Pedro Martinez, asked about the Curse of the Bambino
by achiappanza on Sep 14, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Looking at that, it sure would be nice if a good SS could make himself available this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
That could be a nice buy low pickup (I doubt he’ll cost Matt Cain now.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yeah, and because the Brewers sent him down to the minors this year, whatever team trades for him will have him for 2 full seasons. A package of Alderson and Barnes would probably be pretty appealing to the Brewers…
lol bad prospect resource tradez
UGH STOP REMINDING ME :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
considering the year JJ Hardy is having, I wouldn’t have given up both Alderson and Barnes for him. This guy’s been awful and why would you just assume it’s an aberration and he’ll be good again next year? Maybe he’s a Khalil Greene type mental case for all we know. I’d probably rather have Garko, and I definitely would rather have Freddy Sanchez for what we gave up. It looks to me like you’re trading high on a player who you should be trading low for. Just taking his salary off of the Brewers’ hands should be enough.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
I wouldn’t give up Alderson AND Barnes for him (unless we were getting something else along with him) but is there any real reason to think that Hardy’s had anything but bad luck this year? Would you really rather have Garko than a guy who, the last couple years, was about as good of a hitter while playing SS as Garko is while playing 1B?
At first glance, it seems like most of Hardy’s problems can be traced to BABIP and some poor luck with flyballs.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
you could be right because I haven’t seen him play too often, but it sure looked in the Giants’ series that every time the Giants’ pitchers had problems with that middle of the lineup, JJ Hardy was there to kill the rally.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
Well, yeah, obviously this season is a lost cause for whatever reason. But this is a guy who was a 4 win player at SS the last two years and, at the very least, has a consistently above average glove at SS. Even if his bounce back is only modest (say, .260/.330/.420 or something), he’s still a huge upgrade over what we have now (and there’s always the chance he goes back to being the kind of hitter he was last year.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
(Also worth noting:
despite an awful year, Hardy is still outhitting Renteria – 72 OPS+ to 70 – and has been worth almost one full win more than him – 1.4 WAR to 0.5)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
LOL RENTERIA
I can’t wait to see him start tonight.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
neutered
I can’t wait to see him start tonight all next season.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 11, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Hardy has a gun for an arm.
"The big thing people say to me is, 'Why don't you ever smile?' Well, I'm too interested in trying to beat somebody right now to smile." Will Clark
"I'm close to six feet, I like to think." The Freak.
That would also be awesome.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
That said
I think if the Mets trade him, it will be in the hope of getting a really huge package back. Bumgarner straight up won’t be enough, obviously, and I’m not sure how much the Giants other trade chips will entice them.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Living here in NYC, I can tell you that a LOT of people have soured on Jose, at least to some degree. Now that could be your standard NYC overreaction talking, but there’s some basis too.
+ There’s the hamstring injury, obviously. It went from “slight pull, missing a few days” to “out for season, may need surgery.” Leg issues in guys whose value is based on their speed are… worrisome.
+ Even when he could hustle, he didn’t always choose to. He’s been benched a few times for failing to run out pop-ups, throwing his glove, little bratty crap like that. This of course could be because he’s young, or listening to his own hype, or bad Mets managers. But neither is it encouraging. On the other hand, his 118 OPS+ from 2008 would be an ever-so-slight upgrade on Edgar MoneyDownTheDrainNerds
+ He would probably cost a ton in a trade. The Mets have stripped their Minors cupboard bare the last few years, and have warning klaxons sounding at C, 1B, LF, RF, and the mound. Jayson Stark thinks trading Reyes might be their only option. They have a few superstars and many holes. So deal from strength, right? But Beltran has a full no-trade clause, they can’t trade Johan or K-Rod so soon after getting them, and Mets fans would burn New Shea to the ground if they traded Wright. Which leaves Reyes. But they’d have to get a HAUL back to justify the trade to the fans. It’s weird; they’ll have no leverage, but may have no choice but to swing for the fences either.
Unfortunately, I think that bidding war will quickly get too rich for the Giants’ blood.
Giants wins feel better than Dodger losses, but it's darn close.
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Sep 11, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Sabean:
“I’ve got a really huge package to give you”
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 11, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, Bumgarner’s a top-ten prospect, and those guys don’t get traded very often. No way to know how much the Mets or anyone else will have marked him down based on his late-season fade.
Throw in Crawford and a couple of arms — Snyder and Joaquin, say — and you’ve got a pretty respectable package.
I’m not totally sure he’s still going to be a top 10 prospect… that said, I do think he still has a ton of trade value.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Jose Reyes better show me he’s healthy before I trade for him. His whole game is his legs, and he ain’t running too good right now. In fact I would be very suspicious if the Mets called me about moving him after this season.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
Yeah, in the end, it’s probably a moot point because I don’t think the Mets will actually deal Reyes (or Wright) this offseason. But a healthy Reyes at SS and at the top of the order sure would solve a lot of our problems.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
It isn’t a terrible idea. Maybe throw in one of our outfielders.
By the way, I am looking forward to the day when we trade Fred Lewis to another team, and the fans come to McC to ask “So what do you guys think of him?” Such an epic thread.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
LEWIS FOR ALDERSON
You heard it here!
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 11, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Why would your starting RF be batting 8th? (I mean, unless it’s Randy Winn.)
If you think Bowker is an 8th place hitter, you shouldn’t think he belongs in the major leagues.
The last half of the order is pretty interchangeable
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 11, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Matt Murton, RH platoon mate for LF
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Since I'm a lazy, lazy man...
could someone post a list of hitters that will be available in the 2011 offseason?
by Hoist That Rag on Sep 11, 2009 10:45 AM PDT reply actions
That's 2010
More interested in 2011 since there aren’t too many appealing options for 2010
by Hoist That Rag on Sep 11, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/05/potential-free-agents-for-2011.html
Interesting names:
Derrek Lee
Carlos Pena
Victor Martinez
Joe Mauer
Carl Crawford
Adam Dunn
Jayson Werth
JJ Hardy is on there too, but that’s no longer going to be the case because of the time he spent in the minors this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
we should sign him to 10 years, 270 million and then move him to LF.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
the giants
are exactly the team to sign a check for made-up amounts of money.
Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.
option year. he’ll probably also be re-signed before he ever hits the market
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
He walks too much
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
must be a mailman
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 11, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
fun fact
Pablo leads the Giants in walks- with 42. \weeps
by Hoist That Rag on Sep 11, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Why are fun facts so rarely fun?
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Homeboy he never shuts up
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Noah Lowry
/cry
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Sep 11, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
interesting
do you guys think Werth would be someone to look into? Or does the ballpark over there inflate his worth (har har) too much?
I’m thinking Crawford, Mauer, and Martinez will be given lucrative contracts that the Giants wouldn’t be able to touch. I think Lee’s on the decline, and Pena can’t really field well, IIRC. The Giants obviously don’t think much of Dunn, so that leaves out a lot of those players.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 11, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Jason Werth
Is a very good and underrated player
by FairweatherFan on Sep 11, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
the last Phillies’ right handed outfielder we signed hasn’t worked out too well.
proud father of Edgar (Grandslam) Renteria
I don’t know. Please see “Giants CFers 2004-2007” to see how much of an upgrade Rowand has been.
The problem with Rowand, as was the problem with Feliz before, is that they are fine complementary players, but not players one wishes to rely on as offensive stars. No one would mind much if there were legitimate hitters and those guys hit 7th, but that’s not true of recent Giants teams, so we rag on them.
Rowand hasn’t really earned his contract, but CF isn’t a black hole of suck any more, and $12m just isn’t so bad these days.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 11, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
You can go back farther than that, too...
…other than a couple decent years from an aging Marquis Grissom, and a few Randy Winn starts before they decided for some bizarre reason that he couldn’t play center, we have almost 20 years of terrible hitting center fielders. Jason Ellison, Shinjo, Benard, Calvin Murray, Darren Lewis…
…actually Benard’s stats don’t look that bad in hindsight. Career OPS+ of 96. Terrible contract, but that’s not his fault.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
So you are suggesting the Giants try and get Feliz back? It might only cost Bumgarner at this point.
by Hoist That Rag on Sep 11, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the Phils will work hard to retain Werth though
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Good. He doesn’t like the Giants yard anyway.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 11, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Cain has, I think, turned the corner and is beginning to fulfill his considerable promise. !!!!!!!!!??!!!!
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Lurned to winn!#!!!
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, tearing up Scottsdale, and has been alive long enough to see the Warriors make the playoffs once.
Expalantion
True he got no support in 07 and 08. He also didn’t hold leads, couldn’t get late into games etc. he has done both this year. A big growth year
And what he did tonight?
He may not have gave up a lead, but he gave up two extra runs when the Giants were trying to mount a comeback.
It’s strange how people really think something like “holding a lead” is really a pitcher gutting it out… When in actuality, the pitcher is likely just pitching as hard as they were earlier in the game, but were graced with better fortune.
In fact, this entire season, Cain has been graced with better fortune.
But really, this says nothing poorly of Cain, he’s an awesome pitcher… But my point is that he’s been just as good this season, as he has been since 2007.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Sep 11, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
hit and run
Bochy has the team do it all the time. they just don’t get baserunners all the time, so it doesn’t seem as much. He’s done it with pitchers hitting and slow guys running. anyway, it just isn’t the best strategy for scoring runs.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 11, 2009 12:11 PM PDT reply actions
Question regarding Posey at catcher
I knew people would disagree with me. That is fine. But why the strong feeling for Posey at catcher? I really don’t get it. he’s only played the position a couple years. And I don’t want to see him miss a month from a broken finger, or getting plowed at home plate etc.
Is it that you want Molina gone? Fine. But I still like my best hitting prospect in the organization out from the rigors of catching.
I’m not criticizing his catching skills btw. But I don’t think he’s the second coming of Mike Matheny behind the plate.
All reports have Posey as an above average defender. Having a catcher who can hit well is an incredibly valuable asset to have.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
What others have said, plus, he’s only the no-doubt best hitting prospect in the organization because he’s a catcher. He projects to be an above-average bat for a player, but for a catcher he’s a potential all-star. I’d say just as a hitter without regard to position some other guys — Neal, Villalona, Bowker — might be better.
What does everyone here think of Jonny Gomes, for LF next year? His defense in left is about average, but a .900+ OPS would be useful. According to Fangraphs, he’s a slightly worse version of Josh Willingham, but wouldn’t cost a prospect. Would you rather try Bowker first?
Insanity is just a state of mind.
it all kind of depends on whether he’s going to be the .380 wOBA player of 2005 and 2009 or the .320-.340 wOBA player of 2006-2007 or the .301 wOBA player of 2008.
He’s also well below average in any outfield position, so you’d have to take that into account. If he came really cheap, he might be worth a try though.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I see it a little differently
Bowker has to play. The middle of the lineup needs to be 3 Posey. 4. Pablo, and 5 Bowker. 2. could be Freddie Sanchez if he is still a giants, and one should be Freddie Lewis who has a decent OBP. IF Bowker can play first, then Pablo can stay at third. If Bowker plays left, than you are playing Ishikawa, (more power at first) instead of Freddie Lewis in left, more OBP ability. I would take crawford as an upgrade over Rowand, but that would take a hard group of deals to make that happen.
This team is built to win...
..fairly soon, so I don’t think putting a rookie like Bowker who frankly isn’t a prospect is a great idea.
I’d look at Nick Johnson and Bob Abreu. Guys who we could probably get on 1 or 2 year deals who add walks and some power. There aren’t a lot of pure sluggers out there next year.
I heartily endorse the idea of getting Nick Johnson. He’s fragile, yes (and he’s injured again), but he’s really the only free agent 1B who would come reasonably cheap and represent a huge upgrade to the offense.
Bobby Abreu would substantially improve the offense, but all those people complaining about Fred Lewis’s defense in left are really in for a treat if they try to put Abreu out there. He’s played RF almost exclusively so far, but there’s just no way he could play it at AT&T. So you’d have an unathletic 36-year-old playing a new position. I’m not a fan of this idea.
I don’t see how Bowker “isn’t a prospect.” He’s (just turned) 26, maybe a little old, but he led the PCL in OPS. He definitely needs to be given a shot.
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