Molina injury poll
by positiveuphemism on Sep 1, 2009 1:19 PM PDT
51 comments
Bengie is injured. He has not been playing and is not starting tonite. In my mind this is a good thing. I feel he is the biggest problem the team has (compounded by Bochy starting him 4th) and with him off the field the team is better.
Now I am not "happy" he is injured but I am not disappointed. I really hope this seals his fate as a non-Giant next year.
How do you guys feel? And yes, I know this isn't much of a topic for a post; I would have just done a fan shot but I wanted the poll.
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Er, I’m not totally sure what the question is. I’m certainly not happy that Molina is injured because it means the Giants are basically playing with a short bench.
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by jponry on Sep 1, 2009 1:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
True.
To make is simpler:
Yay or nay, the Giants are better with Bengie not playing.
by positiveuphemism on Sep 1, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nay
As useful as Whiteside was in that series, he is not in any way shape or form better than Bengie
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Sep 1, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it is fun to watch him turn the K/CS play.
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by can of corn on Sep 1, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This.
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by EliminateMe on Sep 1, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have just done a fan shot but I wanted the poll.
wait for it….
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 1, 2009 1:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
TWSS! I had an actual TWSS moment today, my dental hygenist said to me “I’m sorry I have to put these big old things in your mouth” refering to the x-ray razor blades.
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by jbowl on Sep 1, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
She said that?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 1, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whiteside has done awesome defensively. But Molina is a solid defender and, heads over heels. a better offensive player. Not to mention an emotional leader on the field. Giants are better with him. Though I do agree that we should part with him after this season and that he is grossly miss used by Bochy.
by Keenlow on Sep 1, 2009 1:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nay
We are not a better team with Molina out of it and he’s nowhere near the biggest problem the team have. They should just stop hitting him in the cleanup spot.
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by GiantFan on Sep 1, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Molina is slow, duh.
aside from that he is presently a good player, defensively and offensively, relative to other catchers, both within the organization and in the league. The Giants should not be hitting him 4th, however, nor should they be signing him again for big bucks. Whiteside is doing ok, and Posey will be ready by next summer.
by nogooddeed on Sep 1, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bengie's not really good offensively
Among ML catchers with at least 250 at-bats, he’s 22nd out of 29 in wOBA (.304) and 15th out of 29 in OPS (.720). Considering he’s a bad baserunner, even for a catcher, he’s at best an average offensive player for a starting catcher, which is not good considering he’s near the top in terms of salary.
That said, he’s OK defensively and much better offensively than Whiteside, so it’s bad for the Giants that he’s hurt. They’re worse off without him, so, “Nay.”
by taliesin on Sep 1, 2009 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand this post, but I’m pretty sure it’s going to turn into an argument about Fred Lewis’s defense at some point.
by Evan on Sep 1, 2009 1:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Zing!
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 1, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clank!
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by can of corn on Sep 1, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
neither he or Schierholtz are starting tonight. RAGE
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by Speedforthewin on Sep 1, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my opinion
The giants are likely functionally a better team w/o Molina on the field as it keeps him out of the clean up spot.
The giants are a better team W/ Bengie than Whiteside, but only if Bochy would construct lineups appropriately.
by FairweatherFan on Sep 1, 2009 2:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Batting Molina cleanup is pretty terrible, but no way does it outweigh 130 points of OPS, which is his advantage over Whiteside.
by Evan on Sep 1, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I agree with you.
But I don’t know if there is any way to really prove that.
by FairweatherFan on Sep 1, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
play around with this
And tell us how big the difference is between Molina 4th vs. Whiteside 8th.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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by zenbitz on Sep 1, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, I did it (all stats as of 8/31/09)
a Lineup of
Lewis
Sanchez
Sandoval
Molina
Rowand
Winn
Ishikawa
Renteria
Zito
Should score 4.192 RPG. The best line up with this 9 scores 4.281 RPG
(all lineups above 4.27 RPG have Lewis 1st, Sandoval 2nd and Zito 9th, most of Renteria 8th)
But: Lewis Sandoval Molina Rowand Sanchez Winn Renteria Ishikawa Zito has 4.272 RPG!
subbing whiteside (and moving him 8th), the RPG drops to 4.058, with the best at 4.121.
Even if you give Whiteside a “respectible” OBP of .292 (what he hit at Fresno), the lineup only goes up to 4.097 (4.16 "optimized, with Whiteside batting 6th.
So, the bottom line is: Eli Whiteside cannot hit.
The below the bottom line is that bad lineups might be costing the Giants .1 runs/game which is 16 runs season… which is actually approaching massive.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
by zenbitz on Sep 1, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so where was our 4 runs tonight?
by MoreroidsforZito on Sep 1, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what we get for scoring nine on Sunday.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
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by groug on Sep 1, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to put in last nights' lineup
but the simulator thought I was making fun of it, and pouted. I would guess 3.5 RPG or so, but COLE HAMELS.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
by zenbitz on Sep 2, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for that
Both the analysis, and the pointer to the tool. I had been wanting some way of quantifying the cost of batting Molina 4th.
by taliesin on Sep 1, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This.
Molina batting cleanup has easily been by my biggest pet peeve for the last two years. So whether or not it’s rational, I am enjoying his absence.
by mxmob33 on Sep 1, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
me too
I’m glad someone else can explicitly note their irrational preferences. Mine is: Whiteside is a better #8 hitter than Bengie is at #4. He seems fine defensively. Bengie will be great as DH in the WS!
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by natteringnabob on Sep 1, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really should have added this to the post. Bengie > Eli. Bengie + Bochy < Whiteside.
by positiveuphemism on Sep 1, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I voted Yay. I’m not happy Bengie is hurting, but he definitely needs more rest than he usually gets, and he definitely needs to not be the cleanup hitter. So, for a few days, I’ll go with Yay. I think he’d be a terrific pinch-hitter during this time, though.
And yes, I think we should not re-sign him this winter. Take a risk, and let the busters fall where they may.
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by Lyle on Sep 1, 2009 2:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This poll neds a "Meh" option
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by Speedforthewin on Sep 1, 2009 2:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I like Molina.
I do not like the way the Molina is used on this team.
If it takes an injury to get Molina out of the 4 spot, then I’m not that unhappy he’s out.
However, I would much rather just see him healthy and used effectively.
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by Scottsdale on Sep 1, 2009 2:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Meh
I’m more upset that they haven’t called up Posey, and are instead sticking with Whiteside – who has done OK – and Garko backup .
Or there could be this:
C Panda
1B Ishi/Garko
2B Sanchez
SS Rents
3b Uribe.
(Rohlinger backup)
But Sandval is hurt and there is no indication he would be considered for catcher at this point in the season.
I think you need two functioning catchers on a ML team, and despite the $$ consequences, getting Posey up is the right thing to do. Maybe the Giants catch lightening in a bottle and Posey goes all rookie phenom on the league. If he can just bat his MLE (from minor league splits) .274/.331/.430/.761 he’d be a pretty big upgrade, but also he’s the AAA guy. He’s next in the depth chart after the 25-40 man roster. And Molina has been hurt a week. Where is he?
At least the team wouldn’t have to suffer through Garko the Catcher if Eli has to come out of a game. Why go stumbling through a week without a plan, when the future is waiting down n Fresno to be called up? Why bother delving into the minors for Holm or Jacks, when Posey is right there, low-hanging fruit ripe for picking? To me this is much more egregious than the leap-frogging Frandsen for any other Utility infielder, because I think Posey could be a significant contributor now.
But he should have been up yesterday/today so he could have been on the playoff roster. But, the Giants are committed to Bengie+scrubs, and Posey in the minors, even if Bengie can’t play 50% of the games remaining. The choice between Bengie or Eli is a false one. We need to talk about Posey (or a healed Sandoval) at catcher down the stretch. The Giants are making a huge mistake putting all their eggs in a 34 year old, currently-injured catcher.
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Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
by kennv on Sep 1, 2009 2:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely, but I have to wonder whether the brass just think Posey’s not ready yet. If I were in Sabean’s spot, looking for a new contract at the end of the season, trying to save a few million dollars years down the road is the last thing I’d be worrying about right now.
by Evan on Sep 1, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if Neukom were partly judging his performance based on not retarding young players long term development by prematurely bringing them up?
Stranger things have happened, but calling up someone to start at catcher with less than 150 games of professional experience is pretty rare, no? If I wasn’t at work (i.e. – lazy) I could answer my own damn question…
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 1, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neukom’s not going to be able to judge whether Posey’s development has been retarded for years, if ever, so that doesn’t make a lot of sense. But I agree that they’re probably leaving Posey in the minors not out of financial concerns but because they think it’s the right thing to do.
It wouldn’t be some outrageous rush job to call Posey up now, though. Elite catchers are rare birds. I think the only players in recent memory you can really compare Posey with are Surhoff and Wieters, and they were both in the majors after well under 200 minor-league games.
by Evan on Sep 1, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm… these are the same guys who determined that Burriss was ready, right?
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by Roger on Sep 1, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Bocock
Two things:
bad planning
unwilling to screw with the development of top prospects, willing to promote all-field no-hit SS/2B "prospects 5 levels.
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
by kennv on Sep 2, 2009 6:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody really thought Bocock was ready...
…they just forgot to consider the possibility that their 40-year-old starting shortstop might get hurt.
“Backup shortstop? I thought you were getting the backup shortstop!”
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by EliminateMe on Sep 2, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s a close call but if molina found his “big money molina” form during this last month we’d be better for it.
by HOLDEMUPwuzzBANNED on Sep 1, 2009 3:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Right. After putting up a .304 wOBA for five months, now that he’s injured he’s gonna bring the big hits?
by taliesin on Sep 1, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it a good thing that Molina is injured and Whiteside is starting every day? No. But it does make me quite happy he can’t bat cleanup anymore, so I voted yay.
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by boonitez on Sep 1, 2009 3:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not happy with Molina cleanup
But still prefer his hitting to Whiteside.
by bradleybear on Sep 1, 2009 7:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
molina>>whiteside
molina, cleanup>whiteside
ugh
by sfoakbay on Sep 1, 2009 7:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
kind of off subject...
…but who would have caught the bottom of the ninth had Torres not been striken with a transient case of encephalitis?
by capn on Sep 1, 2009 7:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Garko, I imagine.
But don’t forget that for a period of time Torres was the emergency backup catcher. So it may have been Andres.
Would’ve liked to have found out!
by sayheybk on Sep 1, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Molina can’t get healthy soon, we have to seriously consider calling Posey up.
/Xanthan groupthink
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by rotorueter on Sep 1, 2009 8:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well I thought they should have just put Bengie on the DL and brought up Buster over the weekend, but they clearly have decided that a rookie catcher in a pennant race just will not do.
by taliesin on Sep 1, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, like that’ll ever happen!
"Trust me: If I’m feeling lousy at the plate like that, I’m not just going to walk up there with bases loaded and get a hit because I’m some great clutch hitter." - Mr. F!
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by Natto on Sep 2, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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