Molina injury poll
by positiveuphemism on Sep 1, 2009 1:19 PM PDT
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Bengie is injured. He has not been playing and is not starting tonite. In my mind this is a good thing. I feel he is the biggest problem the team has (compounded by Bochy starting him 4th) and with him off the field the team is better.
Now I am not "happy" he is injured but I am not disappointed. I really hope this seals his fate as a non-Giant next year.
How do you guys feel? And yes, I know this isn't much of a topic for a post; I would have just done a fan shot but I wanted the poll.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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True.
To make is simpler:
Yay or nay, the Giants are better with Bengie not playing.
by positiveuphemism on Sep 1, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Nay
As useful as Whiteside was in that series, he is not in any way shape or form better than Bengie
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
But it is fun to watch him turn the K/CS play.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
I would have just done a fan shot but I wanted the poll.
wait for it….
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Sep 1, 2009 1:48 PM PDT reply actions
TWSS! I had an actual TWSS moment today, my dental hygenist said to me “I’m sorry I have to put these big old things in your mouth” refering to the x-ray razor blades.
My Will Clark will kick your honor student's ass!
She said that?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Sep 1, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Whiteside has done awesome defensively. But Molina is a solid defender and, heads over heels. a better offensive player. Not to mention an emotional leader on the field. Giants are better with him. Though I do agree that we should part with him after this season and that he is grossly miss used by Bochy.
Nay
We are not a better team with Molina out of it and he’s nowhere near the biggest problem the team have. They should just stop hitting him in the cleanup spot.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Molina is slow, duh.
aside from that he is presently a good player, defensively and offensively, relative to other catchers, both within the organization and in the league. The Giants should not be hitting him 4th, however, nor should they be signing him again for big bucks. Whiteside is doing ok, and Posey will be ready by next summer.
Bengie's not really good offensively
Among ML catchers with at least 250 at-bats, he’s 22nd out of 29 in wOBA (.304) and 15th out of 29 in OPS (.720). Considering he’s a bad baserunner, even for a catcher, he’s at best an average offensive player for a starting catcher, which is not good considering he’s near the top in terms of salary.
That said, he’s OK defensively and much better offensively than Whiteside, so it’s bad for the Giants that he’s hurt. They’re worse off without him, so, “Nay.”
I don’t understand this post, but I’m pretty sure it’s going to turn into an argument about Fred Lewis’s defense at some point.
Zing!
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 1, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
neither he or Schierholtz are starting tonight. RAGE
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. Congrats go out to my son for his 300th win. Only 211 more wins until he catches Cy Young!
by Speedforthewin on Sep 1, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
In my opinion
The giants are likely functionally a better team w/o Molina on the field as it keeps him out of the clean up spot.
The giants are a better team W/ Bengie than Whiteside, but only if Bochy would construct lineups appropriately.
Batting Molina cleanup is pretty terrible, but no way does it outweigh 130 points of OPS, which is his advantage over Whiteside.
Not sure I agree with you.
But I don’t know if there is any way to really prove that.
by FairweatherFan on Sep 1, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
play around with this
And tell us how big the difference is between Molina 4th vs. Whiteside 8th.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
oh, I did it (all stats as of 8/31/09)
a Lineup of
Lewis
Sanchez
Sandoval
Molina
Rowand
Winn
Ishikawa
Renteria
Zito
Should score 4.192 RPG. The best line up with this 9 scores 4.281 RPG
(all lineups above 4.27 RPG have Lewis 1st, Sandoval 2nd and Zito 9th, most of Renteria 8th)
But: Lewis Sandoval Molina Rowand Sanchez Winn Renteria Ishikawa Zito has 4.272 RPG!
subbing whiteside (and moving him 8th), the RPG drops to 4.058, with the best at 4.121.
Even if you give Whiteside a “respectible” OBP of .292 (what he hit at Fresno), the lineup only goes up to 4.097 (4.16 "optimized, with Whiteside batting 6th.
So, the bottom line is: Eli Whiteside cannot hit.
The below the bottom line is that bad lineups might be costing the Giants .1 runs/game which is 16 runs season… which is actually approaching massive.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I was going to put in last nights' lineup
but the simulator thought I was making fun of it, and pouted. I would guess 3.5 RPG or so, but COLE HAMELS.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Thanks for that
Both the analysis, and the pointer to the tool. I had been wanting some way of quantifying the cost of batting Molina 4th.
This.
Molina batting cleanup has easily been by my biggest pet peeve for the last two years. So whether or not it’s rational, I am enjoying his absence.
me too
I’m glad someone else can explicitly note their irrational preferences. Mine is: Whiteside is a better #8 hitter than Bengie is at #4. He seems fine defensively. Bengie will be great as DH in the WS!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
"This is not good, folks."- Duane Kuiper
by natteringnabob on Sep 1, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I really should have added this to the post. Bengie > Eli. Bengie + Bochy < Whiteside.
by positiveuphemism on Sep 1, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, I voted Yay. I’m not happy Bengie is hurting, but he definitely needs more rest than he usually gets, and he definitely needs to not be the cleanup hitter. So, for a few days, I’ll go with Yay. I think he’d be a terrific pinch-hitter during this time, though.
And yes, I think we should not re-sign him this winter. Take a risk, and let the busters fall where they may.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005. And winner of the 2012 NL Fireman of the Year Award!
This poll neds a "Meh" option
Brand new adoptive daddy for the Big Unit. Congrats go out to my son for his 300th win. Only 211 more wins until he catches Cy Young!
I like Molina.
I do not like the way the Molina is used on this team.
If it takes an injury to get Molina out of the 4 spot, then I’m not that unhappy he’s out.
However, I would much rather just see him healthy and used effectively.
Wisconsin: Famous for dairy, Ryan Rohlinger and not much else.
Meh
I’m more upset that they haven’t called up Posey, and are instead sticking with Whiteside – who has done OK – and Garko backup .
Or there could be this:
C Panda
1B Ishi/Garko
2B Sanchez
SS Rents
3b Uribe.
(Rohlinger backup)
But Sandval is hurt and there is no indication he would be considered for catcher at this point in the season.
I think you need two functioning catchers on a ML team, and despite the $$ consequences, getting Posey up is the right thing to do. Maybe the Giants catch lightening in a bottle and Posey goes all rookie phenom on the league. If he can just bat his MLE (from minor league splits) .274/.331/.430/.761 he’d be a pretty big upgrade, but also he’s the AAA guy. He’s next in the depth chart after the 25-40 man roster. And Molina has been hurt a week. Where is he?
At least the team wouldn’t have to suffer through Garko the Catcher if Eli has to come out of a game. Why go stumbling through a week without a plan, when the future is waiting down n Fresno to be called up? Why bother delving into the minors for Holm or Jacks, when Posey is right there, low-hanging fruit ripe for picking? To me this is much more egregious than the leap-frogging Frandsen for any other Utility infielder, because I think Posey could be a significant contributor now.
But he should have been up yesterday/today so he could have been on the playoff roster. But, the Giants are committed to Bengie+scrubs, and Posey in the minors, even if Bengie can’t play 50% of the games remaining. The choice between Bengie or Eli is a false one. We need to talk about Posey (or a healed Sandoval) at catcher down the stretch. The Giants are making a huge mistake putting all their eggs in a 34 year old, currently-injured catcher.
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
I agree completely, but I have to wonder whether the brass just think Posey’s not ready yet. If I were in Sabean’s spot, looking for a new contract at the end of the season, trying to save a few million dollars years down the road is the last thing I’d be worrying about right now.
What if Neukom were partly judging his performance based on not retarding young players long term development by prematurely bringing them up?
Stranger things have happened, but calling up someone to start at catcher with less than 150 games of professional experience is pretty rare, no? If I wasn’t at work (i.e. – lazy) I could answer my own damn question…
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Sep 1, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Neukom’s not going to be able to judge whether Posey’s development has been retarded for years, if ever, so that doesn’t make a lot of sense. But I agree that they’re probably leaving Posey in the minors not out of financial concerns but because they think it’s the right thing to do.
It wouldn’t be some outrageous rush job to call Posey up now, though. Elite catchers are rare birds. I think the only players in recent memory you can really compare Posey with are Surhoff and Wieters, and they were both in the majors after well under 200 minor-league games.
Hmmm… these are the same guys who determined that Burriss was ready, right?
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
and Bocock
Two things:
bad planning
unwilling to screw with the development of top prospects, willing to promote all-field no-hit SS/2B "prospects 5 levels.
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
Ishikawa, let the boy hit against lefties.
Nobody really thought Bocock was ready...
…they just forgot to consider the possibility that their 40-year-old starting shortstop might get hurt.
“Backup shortstop? I thought you were getting the backup shortstop!”
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
it’s a close call but if molina found his “big money molina” form during this last month we’d be better for it.
by HOLDEMUPwuzzBANNED on Sep 1, 2009 3:18 PM PDT reply actions
Not happy with Molina cleanup
But still prefer his hitting to Whiteside.
kind of off subject...
…but who would have caught the bottom of the ninth had Torres not been striken with a transient case of encephalitis?
If Molina can’t get healthy soon, we have to seriously consider calling Posey up.
/Xanthan groupthink
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Yeah, like that’ll ever happen!
"Trust me: If I’m feeling lousy at the plate like that, I’m not just going to walk up there with bases loaded and get a hit because I’m some great clutch hitter." - Mr. F!
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